We Are Joined At The Table With Anna Hezel: Inspired By Party Foods

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode Title: We Are Joined At The Table With Anna Hezel: Inspired By Party Foods
Release Date: November 27, 2024
Host/Author: The Joy of Creation Production House
Guest: Anna Heazel, Food Journalist and Cookbook Author

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1. Hosts' Culinary Adventures

Shannon Larson kicks off the episode by sharing her recent kitchen endeavors:

"I definitely made Samin's slow roasted salmon this week, which is a huge go-to in our kitchen whenever we're feeling like I don't know what to make."
[00:58] Shannon

She paired the salmon with pearl couscous and vegetables, and experimented with oyster mushrooms from the farmer's market, turning them into a chicken-like substitute in stir-fries.

Megan Scott discusses her absence from the kitchen due to a work trip to Seattle:

"I was in Seattle all week for a work thing, so I did not cook anything this week... by the end I'm like, please, I just really want to eat stuff out of my refrigerator."
[02:14] Megan

However, she indulged in a slice of coconut cream pie, highlighting her dessert preferences.

John Becker shares his solo cooking experience, transforming leftover smoked pork shoulder into a delicious red pozole:

"We had some pork shoulder... turned some of that into a red pozole. So that was really good."
[03:01] John

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2. Introducing Guest Anna Heazel

The hosts warmly welcome Anna Heazel, a New York-based food journalist and author of Lasagna and Tin to Table.

Megan praises Anna's cookbooks:

"We have one go-to recipe in the lasagna cookbook, which is the Sunday sauce lasagna."
[04:32] Megan

Anna elaborates on her new cookbook project centered around party snacks, aligning perfectly with the episode's theme.

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3. Exploring Anna Heazel's Culinary Creations

Anna Heazel delves into her current projects and cooking obsessions:

"I've been really obsessing over two recipes that will be in my book... a sweet, savory party mix and an easy chocolate chip cookie recipe that you can keep frozen in balls."
[07:02] Anna

Megan expresses excitement about the party mix and the innovative chocolate chip cookies, highlighting their versatility and convenience.

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4. Wet the Palate: Sichuan Pepper Oil Tasting

The hosts introduce the Wet the Palate segment, featuring Sichuan pepper oil and Szechuan pepper from 50 Hertz Foods. They discuss the unique, citrusy aroma and the tingling sensation caused by Szechuan pepper, which stimulates the trigeminal nerve.

Shannon shares her delight:

"It brightens up the canned tuna so much. It's not like lemon juice on it, it's just so different."
[12:03] Shannon

They also explore the different profiles of red and green Sichuan peppers, noting their distinct uses in various dishes like Mapo tofu and Fish Fragrant Eggplant.

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5. Deep Dive into 'Tin to Table'

Megan and Shannon express admiration for Anna's book, emphasizing its design and practicality:

"The design is by Lizzie Vaughan... the photography of Chelsea Craig... brings in those classic colors and textures."
[27:38] Anna

Anna discusses her involvement in the book's design process and the blend of photography and illustration that makes the cookbook both beautiful and functional.

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6. Relationship with 'The Joy of Cooking'

Anna Heazel reminisces about her experiences with The Joy of Cooking:

"I grew up with this book constantly at hand in the kitchen... my family made the couscous salad for hundreds of people over the years."
[30:18] Anna

She shares memories of recipes like the 1-2-3-4 cake and hot fudge sauce, underscoring the cookbook's lasting impact on her culinary journey.

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7. Listener Q&A: Utilizing Leftover Sour Cream

A listener named Jillian seeks advice on using three cups of leftover sour cream. The hosts and Anna offer creative solutions:

• Shannon suggests incorporating sour cream into soups like corn chowder for added creaminess.

• John recommends a fruit brulee dessert:

  "Take fresh berries, top them with a mixture of sour cream and vanilla, sprinkle brown sugar, and broil until caramelized."
  [35:38] John

• Anna Heazel introduces her smoked trout dip from Tin to Table, which uses sour cream as a base ingredient.

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8. Party Food Inspirations

The discussion shifts to party food, with Anna Heazel providing elegant and accessible ideas for serving tinned fish:

"I love making Gildas... a classic Spanish pincho with a green olive, an anchovy, and a pickled pepper on a cocktail pick."
[41:24] Anna

Shannon shares her preference for simple yet tasty appetizers:

"Radishes with butter and sea salt... Any kind of dips and cheese."
[43:52] Shannon

Megan emphasizes the importance of over-serving and offering a variety of dishes to cater to different tastes and dietary restrictions, drawing inspiration from her grandmothers' hospitality.

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9. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Topics

As the episode concludes, the hosts tease next week's topic on chanterelle hunting and preparation. They invite listeners to engage via their hotline for future discussions and share their excitement for upcoming culinary projects.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Samin's slow roasted salmon is so reliable." — Shannon [00:58]
• "I love when people bring party mix over to the house." — Anna Heazel [08:21]
• "Szechuan pepper isn't actually spicy... it's the stimulation of the trigeminal nerve." — Megan [12:19]
• "The design is by Lizzie Vaughan... brings in classic colors and textures." — Anna Heazel [27:38]
• "Take fresh berries, top them with sour cream and vanilla, sprinkle brown sugar, and broil until caramelized." — John Becker [35:38]

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast offers a delightful blend of personal culinary stories, expert insights from guest Anna Heazel, and practical tips for enhancing both everyday meals and special gatherings. From innovative uses of tinned fish to creative ways to utilize leftover ingredients, listeners are treated to a wealth of knowledge and inspiration to elevate their cooking experiences.

Transcript

[Shannon]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan, and canned smoked trout, enthusiastic.

[Megan]

I'm Megan, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And I make a mean pan of cornbread.

[John Becker]

I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. I'm our in house breakfast expert and I preserve all the chilies.

[Megan]

What were you doing all week, Shannon? Did you make anything fun or eat anything delicious?

[Shannon]

Well, I definitely made Samin's slow roasted salmon this week, which is a huge go to in our kitchen whenever we're feeling like I don't know what to make. Samin's slow roasted salmon is so reliable.

[Anna Heazel]

So good.

[Shannon]

And then we just paired it with pearl couscous and veggies from rcsa. We also bought a ton of oyster mushrooms from the farmer's market last week because they were on sale. And we made an oyster mushroom stir fry that was really good. The, like, oyster mushrooms became almost like chicken, like when we cooked them for a while. So that was something we both really enjoyed and we had plenty of leftovers, so that was great.

[Megan]

Nice. I recently made a mushroom. It was like a Hetty McKinnon recipe, a mushroom udon dish where the mushrooms get kind of caramelized and like in soy sauce. Oh, my God, it was so good.

[Shannon]

I love oyster mushrooms.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Shannon]

What about you?

[Megan]

Well, I was in Seattle all week for a work thing, so I did not cook anything this week, which is weird, and just ate out every single meal, which starts out fun, and then by the end I'm like, please, I just really want to eat stuff out of my refrigerator.

[Shannon]

All of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, that's so much salt.

[Megan]

So much salt.

[Shannon]

So much salt.

[Megan]

But I did eat a really good slice of coconut cream pie, which is one of my top tier desserts. So I was very happy about that.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, since I was all alone, was really left to my own devices. Yeah. So we had some pork shoulder, some smoked pork shoulder that was left over from a party like a few months ago. So took some of that and turned it into a red pozole. So that was. That was really good.

[Megan]

I got to eat the leftovers of that yesterday, and it was really good. What was the weirdest or wackiest thing that you made as a soul? Because I feel like when you're alone, that's the moment when you get to make whatever weird thing your heart desires. Was there anything kind of funky that you made?

[John Becker]

You're putting me on the spot. I know. I'm just. I'm a normie. Uh, no, nothing. Nothing weird this time. I mean, I feel like in the past I might have tried to get one by you.

[Megan]

You didn't have boy dinner. You didn't have something just like, disgusting and weird and.

[John Becker]

No, it was really boring. I mean, boring isn't good. You know, I did what, Andrea Nguyen's soy syru tofu the night afterwards.

[Megan]

That's really good.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Such an easy recipe too.

[John Becker]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Shannon]

That is so not what my husband does when I'm out of town.

[Megan]

What does John do?

[Shannon]

He does like, I don't know, frozen buffalo wings.

[Megan]

Like, see, that's what I want to hear.

[Shannon]

I'm like, what'd you eat? And he's like, nothing. Not red pizza, that's for sure.

[Megan]

Okay, well, for this episode, we would like to welcome our guest, Anna Heazel. She is a New York based food journalist and cookbook author. Her writing has appeared in publications like the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, New York Magazine, Lucky Peach, gq, Rolling Stone, Eater, Bon Appetit, and more. She has been an editor at Taste and Epicurious and is the author of two cookbooks, Lasagna and Tin to Table. Anna, welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast.

[Anna Heazel]

Thank you so much for having me. It's so exciting to be here with you all.

[Megan]

I'm really excited to talk to you because I've been. Well, I love both of your books. We have one go to recipe in the lasagna cookbook, which is the. John, what's the name of the recipe?

[John Becker]

Oh, it's the Sunday sauce lasagna. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's a go to. As in, like, you know, it's. We aspire to it often.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's.

[John Becker]

It's definitely a. It's a. It's a little bit of a project, but it's definitely worth every minute.

[Megan]

Yeah. And it's good because we freeze it.

[Anna Heazel]

Especially if you just want like the most comforting version of lasagna with as many different kinds of meats as possible. That's the one to go to.

[Megan]

Yes, it freezes very, very well. We'll like cut it into portions and then have it in the freezer and it's like a weeknight savior. And then tend to table. Your most recent cookbook, which is all about little fishes in cans, is a total delight. We actually made one of the recipes last night, the Pasta Con Lazard.

[Anna Heazel]

Oh, amazing.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's a really, really great recipe. And then honestly, I want to put those breadcrumbs on so many things.

[Anna Heazel]

The salty, garlicky, anchovy breadcrumbs.

[Megan]

Yes.

[John Becker]

Yeah, I've been scheming. Definitely going on a Caesar soon. Potentially other vegetable dishes.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, that sounds awesome. Well, thank you so much for cooking from the books.

[Megan]

Yeah, I love trying out new recipes and we always have some tins of fish in the pantry, so it's really great. It's actually a really great pantry cookbook. I feel like I can usually whip up something with a tin of fish. So I think it's a really handy book. It's also very cute. But we're going to talk about that shortly. But first I wanted to ask you, what are you up to currently? Are you working on any fun projects right now?

[Anna Heazel]

I am actually. I am working on a new cookbook. It's due in about a month, so I'm just low key freaking out about it at this stage. But you know what, that's like a crunch time. Yeah. It will come out in spite spring 2026 and it's all about party snacks.

[Megan]

Oh, that is so perfect. Because that is the topic of our show this week. What a coincidence. This was not planned by the way.

[Anna Heazel]

It's top of mind. It's perfect time to talk about it.

[Megan]

Yes. Do you have any current cooking obsessions? It can be related to your book project or not anything you've been making a lot lately and loving.

[Anna Heazel]

So I've been really obsessing over two recipes that will be in my book that I just like really care so much about getting them perfect. One is a party mix and it's sort of like a sweet, savory party mix, has chex, it has pecans, it has like butter and brown sugar and rosemary, but also like a lot of savory spices. And I just. There's so many good party mixes in the world. There are good store bought ones. I just really wanted one that I could make for any party or make it to bring as a hostess gifts, places or bring it to a friend who's sick or just got surgery. So I just wanted a really, really solid party Mix. So I've made that. It feels like a hundred times in the last week. I'm getting so tired of eating Chex cereal and pretzel steaks. But I think it's there, which is really exciting. It's going. It's turning around from, like, so sick of eating this, can't look at it anymore, to being like, oh, that actually tastes kind of good. I'm excited about it again.

[Megan]

And that I feel like everyone is grateful to get a gift of party mix. I would not turn it down.

[Anna Heazel]

I love when people bring party mix over to the house or, like, you know, bring it to a party. It's. Yeah, it's. I'm always excited to see party mix. And then the other thing I've been obsessing about is I wanted to have, like, a really good, easy chocolate chip cookie recipe in the book that you can keep frozen in balls and then just, like, make freshly baked cookies when you have friends over. And I've been obsessing over this because I sort of had a dream of, like, a pistachio chocolate chip cookie. But pistachios are kind of hard because when they're warm, like when they're in a freshly baked thing, they can get kind of, like, chewy, almost sure their crunch a little bit. So this has just been another sort of, like, riddle that I've been obsessing over.

[Megan]

I feel like doing. Pulling a warm dessert out of the oven at a party is the ultimate party trick. It's so impressive. And a warm chocolate chip cookie is just one of the best things in the world. So I'm very excited to try that recipe. Let me know if you. If you want anyone to test it. Yeah, you've got a test for a few people.

[Anna Heazel]

Thank you.

[Shannon]

I also like the idea of having them, like, in balls in the freezer. So if, like, I just want one for dessert, just, like, I just make one, it's fine, right?

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly.

[John Becker]

Maybe two in the toaster oven.

[Shannon]

Yeah, there you go.

[Megan]

Yeah, don't.

[Anna Heazel]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, a countertop toaster oven or, like, little air fryer is kind of perfect for this if you just need, like, one or two cookies.

[Shannon]

Delicious.

[Megan]

Very excited about that. I cannot wait to see that book. So we're going to move into our next segment, which is Wet the Palate, where we taste something delicious. And this week we are trying Sichuan pepper oil and Szechuan pepper from 50 Hertz Foods. They make a red and green Sichuan pepper oil, and they also have the. The peppers themselves. They are not Peppercorns. They are peppers. They are not related to peppercorns. They're actually. I thought this was really interesting. More closely related to citrus, which is. You kind of can get that too. When you smell them. They smell very citrusy to me, especially the green ones. So let's pass around. I wanna pass around the green Sichuan pepper first. Yeah. It smells so good. It smells like lemon zest. Anna, do you use Sichuan pepper often in your cooking?

[Anna Heazel]

Every once in a while. I like to make Mapo tofu. Yeah. I've made a handful of recipes that use Szechuan pepper, but I haven't tried these two products that you're trying.

[Megan]

Yeah. The oil was kind of a new one for us. I'm trying to remember when we started using it. Probably like a year ago or something.

[John Becker]

It was a few years ago. We got some from Mala Market before we met Yao at 50Hz and purchased some from him. Malo Market's awesome. But 50Hz is especially. Their green oil is pretty fantastic.

[Megan]

Yeah. So I'm going to open the green Sichuan pepper oil, and I actually brought some canned. Since we're talking about tinned fish, I brought some home canned albacore tuna that we just did this year to try with the green oil because it goes. The green oil really goes nicely with fish and seafood because it's a little bit lighter.

[Anna Heazel]

That sounds really beautiful. Like, sort of the fruity notes of the pepper.

[Megan]

Mm.

[Shannon]

Okay. That's, like, absolutely amazing. It's so good. First of all, your tuna is wonderful. So good.

[Megan]

Thank you.

[Shannon]

Thank you. But it's like, it brightens up the canned tuna so much. Like, it tastes like. It's not like lemon juices on it. It's just so different. And then you get that sensation in the back of your throat that I really like.

[Megan]

Yeah, the, like, warm feeling.

[Shannon]

That's amazing.

[Megan]

I was doing some research on the Szechuan pepper because it's not actually spicy. It's a. It's a sensation. So it's like the stimulation of the trigeminal nerve, which is the same nerve that you. That is kind of stimulated. When you eat something with, like, menthol or something that's carbonated, you get, like, that sensation. So it's. It. It does have a flavor. But that feeling of the. The tingliness is that stimulation of the nerve, which I think is just really cool for all the. For all the sensory science.

[Shannon]

Yeah. And it, like, grows. Because now it's like, more on my tongue. Yeah. It's just fun.

[Megan]

It's A really fun flavor. And it goes with so many things that you wouldn't think too. Like when we went to this tasting, they were serving it on strawberries, like fresh strawberries. And it was so good on the fresh fruit. So now I want to try it kind of on everything because I think it's way more versatile than we need.

[Shannon]

A whole party of just things to put this oil on.

[John Becker]

Yeah, I guess that part of the origin story for Yao importing this fine oil is he was holding a dinner party for his friends and did a pasta dish that had a bunch of Parmesan and mushrooms in it. They were passing some of this oil around to garnish the pasta. And yeah, just had it with some Parmesan cheese. And I can see why people were so floored. Mm, really good.

[Megan]

So the red and green peppers are not from. They're not. It's not like the green or immature. And the red is mature. They're from two different plants actually. And the green has like a brighter, more aromatic flavor. And then the red is more full bodied and woodsy. So it pairs better with like tofu and red meat. Sort of like red wine pairs with those things as well. So you can get a totally different effect by using the different colors peppers. But this is a favorite, a favorite product of ours. We use it. We use it in Mapo tofu, like Anna said. And there's also a fuchsia Dunlop recipe called Fish fragrant eggplant that we use it in. It's so, so good. We're going to talk about eggplant every.

[Shannon]

Episode of the show. Somehow, just to drive John a little bit crazy.

[John Becker]

But I have nothing against it.

[Jillian]

50 Hz is the frequency of the tongue tingling sensation when you experience Szechuan pepper. If you want to experience the fun of Szechuan flower pepper, visit 50hertzfoods.com use code Tingly Joy. That's T I N G L Y Joy. 20 for 20% off from now until December 31st. Check out their tingly peanuts brittle oils and pepper flowers. That's 50hertzfoods.com 50h e r t z.

[Megan]

Foods.Com so let's talk about your most recent book, Tin to table. Why did you decide to write about tinned fish? Is this something you were interested in for a long time or was it a more recent obsession?

[Anna Heazel]

So I think I started trying to scheme to write a book about tin fish around like 2018, 2019. And I remember when I first started talking to publishers and editors about it, everyone was Sort of like that's just like a little too weird. I don't like, it's a little too niche for, you know, for people to get really excited about. And then a couple Years later in 2020, people just started, I just started noticing people buying and cooking with tin fish so much more. You know, I think like with the pandemic and the lockdown, people were stuck at home. So they were sort of like going to the Internet to buy a lot of ingredients. And this was like a shelf stable protein that people could buy. That also felt a little bit fun. And you sort of get to almost like travel vicariously through the product if you're buying Portuguese or Spanish tins or tins from anywhere else in the world. So I think I just started to see this momentum growing around tinned fish. But at the same time it's like a really sort of intimidating category of food to get into for the first time because there's so much out there, there's so many species, there's so many preparations for those species, so many brands, and it can just be really overwhelming and intimidating, I think. So I wanted to sort of like help demystify that and make that friendlier and more accessible for people who are just interested in like buying, collecting, cooking with tinned fish, all those things.

[Megan]

Yeah. And another thing that kind of, that I've noticed when I'm buying tinned fish is that some of the tins are very, very expensive, which is not necessarily something I, I expected initially. Like, I think of the just tinned sardines as this kind of everyday lunch staple and they're really affordable, but then you can get some really high end tins of fish. And I started to wonder, you know, is it worth it? Should I. I was really curious, like, I want to try, but yeah, is it worth it?

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, I mean, so tinned fish, there's sort of like this weird arbitrary pricing that has a little bit to do with like sort of obsolete American tariffs put on imported goods that were sort of like originally instated to protect the American fishing industry. But now I think like a lot of people, like, I like to buy local seafood when I can, but also like Spanish sardines sometimes because they do something that I think like American fresh seafood isn't doing. So. Yeah, but a lot of those products still just have like a really dramatic markup because they're being imported. So I think like sometimes the price doesn't like perfectly match up with quality, but you're also like sometimes paying for just like a nicer Olive oil that they're packed in, or like, for instance, like anchovies. I will sometimes spend, like, $15 on a can of anchovies, which I know is totally insane to some people, but I love buying them from a company where there's all this sort of intricate handiwork that's gone into it and they're packed by hand. And some companies even will put, like, a little piece of paper inside the can that has the name of the person who packed that can. And so, yeah, so I will sort of like, I'll rationalize spending $15 on a can of fish every once in a while, but I do think there are some really extravagant cans that are maybe not worth it for most people for everyday eating and. Yeah, for everyday use.

[John Becker]

Well, I feel like with anchovies in particular, there's a good value proposition, even if it is a little more expensive than you would expect, just because you don't necessarily need a ton of anchovies for every single time you want to use it.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, that's so true. There's also. I mean, I think a lot of people don't realize that with anchovies, there's a really long preparation process that goes into them. Like, they bring in the fresh fish, they pack them in barrel, like, wooden barrels with a ton of salt, and then they just cure them in salt for months, like six months sometimes. And that's how they sort of develop that, like, really, really salty, umami kind of parmesan flavor just from that aging. And then even after that whole curing process, they have to be cleaned, gutted, rinsed, and then filleted and packed in olive oil, usually. So it's kind of an elaborate process that you're paying for. So to me, it's like, for a really good can, yeah, I have no problem spending $15.

[John Becker]

Yeah, you can definitely get a sense for at least a fraction of the work that's involved, the painstaking work that's involved. If you get the salt pact, those. Those can be a little bit difficult to fillet.

[Megan]

Yeah, we've. We will get the big cans of anchovies packed in salt and then, you know, go through the process of. Of cleaning them and then packing them in olive oil ourselves, because the. The texture of the canned ones in the salt is so good. Like, they're just really firm and especially delicious.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, totally. A lot of restaurants do that also, I think, like, both because the texture is really fresh and firm, and then also you get to choose what olive oil you want to use, which can be Nice. You can sort of, like, choose one that you like.

[Megan]

Yeah. And speaking of anchovies, one thing I learned from your book is that anchovies, even in the. Even in little tins, should be refrigerated, not kept on the shelf.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, I usually refrigerate them. I mean, this is, like, a little bit. There's some people who say it's no problem to keep them at room temperature, but. Yeah. Since anchovies are weirdly one of the tin seafoods that's not cooked before it goes in the can, it's just like a raw fish cured in salt, it's considered semi preserved. So basically, over time, when that can is sort of sitting on your shelf, especially if your kitchen or your home gets, like, a little bit warmer, the fish can actually sort of, like, break down inside of the can and get kind of, like, mushy or, like, grainy. Sort of like some of the. Sort of, like, some of the unpleasant textures that I associate with anchovies when they're not as good as they could be. So. Yeah, so I. I like to stick mine in the fridge just because it's, like, a little extra insurance against them breaking down and becoming kind of gross.

[John Becker]

I mean, this might be sacrilegious, but. Yeah. What's your opinion on anchovy paste? You know, like, the tubes, just because they are so convenient, but known to pull.

[Anna Heazel]

They are really convenient, but I feel like they always use, like, the grossest anchovies to make the paste.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Anna Heazel]

Especially, like, if I'm using enough anchovy in something that I, like, want that convenience. Usually it's because, like, the dish has a lot of anchovy in it. So I guess I just, like, usually find myself opening up if I can, or, like, one of those little jars that you can reseal and just fish out, like, one anchovy at a time.

[Shannon]

And they're so easy to make into a paste yourself.

[John Becker]

Okay, fine. I'm shamed.

[Shannon]

Come on, John.

[John Becker]

I'm blushing.

[Anna Heazel]

So sorry. I don't mean to yuck your yum. You can keep an eye on the tubes of the.

[Megan]

Anna, what is your current favorite tin of fish?

[Anna Heazel]

Ooh. Okay, so I sort of have, like, a desert island tin, which is the Nori. It's a Portuguese brand, and they have just a. I think it's called Sardines and Spiced oil. And it's just like a really fatty, meaty, big Portuguese sardine in an oil that's, like, really beautifully spiced. It's like there's a little piri Piri. I think there's some clove in there, maybe a bay leaf. It just has, like, a really lovely red, slightly spicy oil.

[Megan]

I feel like we have a can. Do we have a tin of the nori at home?

[John Becker]

We have in the past. I think we ate them all. There's another brand that that same cannery sells under, and I can't remember the name of it.

[Anna Heazel]

Pinheisch.

[John Becker]

Yeah, that's right. Right, right, right. Yeah, they're really good. I feel like that was one of the gateway sardines that we've. That we've enjoyed. I think the first. The first one that was truly like, okay, we need to explore this more was the Angelo Perotti especially. Yeah. With the. I think that the ones that they pack with the chili, that was, for me, at least the yellow box.

[Megan]

Yeah, I can see the yellow box.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah.

[Shannon]

This is random, but a few friends of mine, they know that I like tin fish, but they just recently started selling tinned calamari at Trader Joe's. So some friends of mine are, like, getting that tin of calamari because it's cheap. Right. Like, it's easy to just pick up when you're at Trader Joe's, you know, buying your other stuff. What would you recommend to use, like, for those friends of mine who are just trying to get into it? Tinned calamari for.

[Anna Heazel]

Ooh. I've used tin calamari for paella before because it's so hard to find, like, in grocery stores in New York, it's hard to buy actual fresh calamari in small quantities. So it's kind of perfect if you're, like, throwing in a few different kinds of seafood into a paella. Also, I feel like just like, a garlicky pasta with canned calamari would be really good.

[Megan]

I did not know that they were selling that at Trader Joe's, so I'm gonna have to check that out.

[Shannon]

I think it's brand new. I'm heading there after this.

[Megan]

So their smoked trout is really good.

[Shannon]

Their smoked trout is really, really good. I eat it quite often for lunch.

[Megan]

Yeah. Speaking of kind of more budget tins, do you have a favorite budget tin of fish?

[Anna Heazel]

I like King Oscar sardines as just like. Like, they make some that are packed in olive oil that are still, like, pretty affordable. Yeah. And the Trader Joe's smoked trout I also really like. Also coles. There's a brand Coles C O L E. And their smoked trout and smoked salmon are both really nice.

[Megan]

Something to check out before we move on to Our weekly topic. I also wanted to just talk about the design of your book tin to table, because it is such a beautiful book. And we'll link to it in the show notes so everyone can see it. And you should buy a copy because it's beautiful and lovely. And it's also a really great gift book because it has, like, a smaller trim size, just like a smaller dimensions. But I. I love the design because it. It. It's got the rounded corners and then the silver accents which make it look like kind of like a tin of fish. And it's just a very sweet design. Like, how much were you involved with the design process of the book?

[Anna Heazel]

Oh, thank you so much for saying that. Yeah, I love the design. The design is by Lizzie Vaughan, who's an art director at Chronicle Books, which is my publisher. And she and I were working together really closely from sort of like, the moment I pitched the book. Just like, sharing. I would share sort of archival images of old tin designs with her or just send some little illustrations as I found them. And she just was so creative about turning it into a book design. I also really love the photography of Chelsea Craig, which is in the book. I think she also just, like, did such a great job of picking up those sort of, like, classic colors and textures that are on a lot of the Cannes designs and bringing that in the photography, which I thought was really cool.

[Megan]

Yeah, the photos are super fun, and I love that there's a blend of photography and illustration in the book. I love a good illustrated cookbook.

[Shannon]

I also really like the binding. I know that's.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Shannon]

It's such, like, a weird thing, but for cookbooks, I just feel like it's so nice when you open it up and it stays open, and this one feels solid and it stays open to the page that you want.

[Megan]

Yeah. It has the really nice sewn binding, which does lay flat, and that is such a gift when you're using it in the kitchen. Yeah. So good job, everyone who worked on this book.

[Anna Heazel]

Thank you so much. I'll let the team at Chronicle Books know that you appreciated that.

[Megan]

Awesome. And one question I should have asked at the beginning of this interview segment, but what is your relationship with the Joy of Cooking Cookbook? Is it a book that you grew up with or just heard of or have never used? Any answer is acceptable.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah. Okay. So I actually, when I was invited to come on the podcast, I hit up my family group chat and just said, like, hey, remind me, like, what are some of the things that we have cooked over the Years. Because I grew up with this book sort of being like, constantly at hand in the kitchen anytime I was a little kid and just, like, curious about how a particular kind of cake was made or just how to make stuffing for Thanksgiving. This was the book that I went to. But I texted my family group chat, and they reminded me that we used to always make the 1, 2, 3, 4 cake.

[Megan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that one.

[Anna Heazel]

Which I think it's called 1, 2, 3, 4 because of the formula of how much flour, milk, eggs. I can't remember the exact breakdown, but it's a really clever kind of cake recipe build.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's a really easy way to remember the recipe. So instead of a pound cake with equal parts, and I also can't remember what those ingredients. What are the. I feel like it's.

[John Becker]

We're not prepared.

[Megan]

Yeah, we're not prepared.

[Anna Heazel]

I mean, the Joy of Cooking has more than. There are thousands of recipes. I can't even imagine how you would remember every single one.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Now, we love getting the what's your favorite recipe? Question, especially.

[Anna Heazel]

Oh, my gosh.

[Megan]

Like, you got to narrow it down a little more than that.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah. But my mom reminded me there's a couscous salad in the Joy of Cooking that has chopped up bell peppers and dried apricots and raisins and a lime juice dressing. And that couscous salad was just at every party we had growing up. My family has made that for hundreds and hundreds of people over the years. It's crazy.

[John Becker]

We're gonna have to. We're gonna have to revisit that one.

[Megan]

I know. I feel like that. That sounds like a 1997.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan]

For sure. But I feel like it was in. I think it was in the 2006 edition as well. Honestly. Yeah. Again, it's hard. I need the book right in front of me to look it up.

[John Becker]

Was it with a big couscous?

[Anna Heazel]

No, I don't think so. I think it's with, like, the standard tiny couscous.

[Megan]

Nice. Well, we're going to look that up later and maybe make that for our next gathering, our next party.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, it's really good. It goes with everything. Like, grilled meats pair really nicely with it. Yeah, it's great. And okay. I also remember that the first time I ever made a hot fudge sauce as a kid was from the Joy of Cooking recipe.

[Megan]

Heck, yes.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah. It's so good. And it's, like, so exciting as, like, 8 or 9 year old to realize that you can just, like, make that.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Anna Heazel]

Kind of a revelation.

[Megan]

The keys to the kingdom.

[John Becker]

This is what we. This is what we dream of. Enabling.

[Megan]

It is kind of. That is one of those recipes, though, that is a little like magic because you put the ingredients in a pot and you think, there's no way this is going to make a hot fudge sauce. And then it just turns and you boil it. Like, you have to actually boil it hard, and it just turns this glossy, beautiful. Like the hot fudge sauce that you know from an ice cream shop. It's exactly like that. It is so good. Thank you for reminding me that that recipe exists. I'm going to make some right away.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah. It's so good. We used to, when I was a kid, we would always have hot fudge sundaes on New Year's Eve, and we would, like, invite, like, everyone in the neighborhood came over. Aunts and uncles and cousins came over, and we'd have a big hot fudge Sunday party.

[Shannon]

I love that.

[Anna Heazel]

Do I remember especially that hot fudge sauce is really good with peppermint ice cream as like a sort of wintry kind of Christmas New Year's treat.

[John Becker]

Oh, wow, you're speaking Meghan's language. That is classic combination for making.

[Megan]

Yeah, I love them. I'm a mint chocolate person. I know that is a little controversial sometimes, but I think it's a brilliant. I just think it's a brilliant pairing.

[Anna Heazel]

I agree.

[Megan]

So now we're going to talk about our weekly topic, which is party food. But before we get into party food more broadly, we are going to answer a question from our hotline.

[Neha]

Hi, this is Jillian, and this message is for the Joy of Cooking podcast. I am calling with a cooking conundrum. I need help because I had a party last weekend and I have three cups of sour cream leftover. Can you give me ideas to use up 3 cups of sour cream in any kind of recipes over the next week? Thank you.

[Megan]

Okay, so Jillian needs to use three cups of sour cream that she has left over from a party. Go.

[Shannon]

Well, it's not. I mean, I love sour cream, so that's not a problem for me. But I. I like using just like, dollops and soup. I think it's really good because it adds the creaminess. So we just made corn chowder last night, and I didn't have any sour cream, but guess what could have been, like, way better with a dollop of sour cream? Is that corn chowder? That's something that came to mind other than just, like, you know, dipping whatever I have on hand into it.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, if we're just trying to use a dollop at a time. Yeah. Borscht obviously came to mind.

[Megan]

Yeah, borscht. We're getting into the soup season, so it's time to start making borscht.

[John Becker]

But we did actually find some ways to use, like a fairly large quantity at once. What is it, the fruit brulee recipe?

[Megan]

Yeah. So there's a recipe in Joy called fruit brulee. It's been there since the 60s. You looked it up.

[John Becker]

I did. And yet saluting me. It's been around for a while.

[Megan]

It's been around for a while. Fruit brulee. It's a really, really simple dessert and it sounds kind of funky, but it's very good. I highly recommend where you take whatever fresh fruit you have. Berries are really good. So, like, brown raspberries are my favorite. But any kind of berry like that, you put the berries in a baking dish, a broiler proof baking dish, and then you mix together one and a half cups of sour cream and vanilla and then spread that on top so it's totally coating the fruit. And then you sprinkle a bunch of brown sugar on top and then you broil it in the oven until the sugar melts and caramelizes.

[John Becker]

And it's, it's about like a one to one sour cream to brown sugar ratio, we're talking. So it, It's. It is quite. Yeah, there's a lot of caramelization going.

[Megan]

Yeah. But that is a way, that's a really good way to use up a lot of sour cream in one fell swoop, which I feel like you could do. You know, we can either go with like, use as much sour cream as possible in as few recipes as possible, or just start adding it to everything over like a week to use it all.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Anna, do you have any sour cream suggestions?

[Anna Heazel]

Well, first of all, fruit brulee sounds so good. That sounds like a thing that would be hard to invent. Like, I. I'm sort of curious about the genesis of that, but it sounds so good to me and just like a charming concept. Just like those three ingredients together. Beautiful.

[John Becker]

I was reading that some sources call it Russian gratin, so, yeah, more of a. Still a mystery. I'll have to do some more digging.

[Anna Heazel]

Yeah, amazing. I would. Okay, so I have a recipe in tinted table, which is for a smoked trout diploma, which uses canned smoked trout, which, you know, as we mentioned, easy to get at Trader Joe's. And then also in the dairy, I call for a mix of cream cheese and creme fraiche, just because I really like the texture of, like, that combo. But I've done it just, like, with sour cream or all cream cheese or all creme fraiche. So it's kind of flexible. So I would. I think that the color should make a smoked trout dip with some of. With at least a cup of the sour cream, just with canned trout, sour cream, a little minced shallot, a little lemon juice, black pepper. And then I think that the color should also make just, like, a really good coffee cake.

[Megan]

Yeah, that sounds so good. Right now I'm just getting towards dinner time, so I'm like, oh, that all sounds so good.

[Anna Heazel]

Or like some kind of snacking cake that still tastes good a couple days later, you know, that you just, like, want to have around to grab a little slice here and there.

[Megan]

Yeah, I love that idea.

[John Becker]

My great grandmother Irma, she had anticipated these kinds of questions. And I found out, looking at the older editions that, like, up until the 1951 edition, she actually had like, an entire list of what she called leftover food suggestions. Suggestions, like in the back of Joy. And it included, like, I want to say, maybe 25 uses for excess sour cream. I thought it was interesting that Irma was definitely anticipating Jillian's question.

[Megan]

Like, 70 years ago.

[John Becker]

Yeah, 70 years ago.

[Megan]

Any good suggestions from there, or is it all, like, very specific things?

[John Becker]

Well, there's one. There is. There's, like, a grandmother's apple cake that we've tested in the past, and it's actually, like, it's still enjoy, but it's no longer called grandmother's apple cake. It's called something like sour cream souffle cake. Cocking.

[Megan]

Yeah. Sour cream apple souffle cake. It's got a mouthful of a name.

[John Becker]

Yeah, it's like, it. It really does kind of defy, like, genre conventions as far as baked goods go. I remember it being really, really good.

[Megan]

It's really good.

[John Becker]

I looked it up. It doesn't use too much sour cream, so. But.

[Megan]

But it is apple season, so it feels very true. On point.

[John Becker]

Let's see, what else? Donuts with sour cream. That's intriguing, but you don't.

[Megan]

I don't want to make donuts.

[John Becker]

A sour. Sour cream pie. I wonder. Yeah, There are no page numbers in this list, of course.

[Megan]

That's the limitation of that. What about John, Talk a little bit about Marian Becker's favorite dessert.

[John Becker]

Yeah. So again, not something that would get rid of a ton of sour cream, but she just loved. Well, so she was allergic to strawberries, but she loves Strawberries. It's a horrible, horrible predicament to be in. But her favorite way to eat these things that, that would make, make her break out. I don't, I don't even know what would, what would happen after she ate the strawberries, but she would dip them in sour cream and then in brown sugar, like fruit brulee, but just, you know, one at a time.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's really good too. And it's one of those things that is so simple that at first I didn't think it was going to be any good. But when you start eating them, you kind of can't stop eating them because they're just. It's so snackable. And it's also fun to get to dip the strawberries into the different, the sugar and the, the sour cream.

[Shannon]

And the texture is probably really fun.

[Megan]

Yeah, the texture is really good.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Even out of season. I mean, I. Please do not buy strawberries out of season, but if you do, you should do this.

[Megan]

Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about party food more broadly. So, Anna, how do you like to serve tinned fish at parties?

[Anna Heazel]

I love to incorporate it into a dip, you know, like the smoked trout dip. Also easy to do that with like a good smoked salmon or other like smoky sort of tin seafoods. But I also really like to just like open a bunch of tins and set them out sort of like you would like cheese or charcuterie with some pickles and crudite and bread and butter and just encourage people to try things because it's sort of like a nice low stakes way. If you're at a party and you're only going to try a bite of something, it's kind of a cool way to just try tend mussels for the first time. And I also really like making Gildas, which are like a classic Spanish pincho, which is just like a little kind of like finger food drinking snack. And you just take a little like cocktail pick, little tiny skewer and add like a green olive, an anchovy and a peppera, which is a kind of like pickled pepper that's used in a lot of Spanish cooking. And those are just like really cute little dainty bites. And you can like arrange them in a cute way on a tray. And it's sort of like a, a nice way to eat anchovies and all of those things without getting too messy or without needing like plates and forks.

[Megan]

Yeah, that sounds so good. It makes me want, it makes me want to serve that with a martini or Something.

[Anna Heazel]

Yes. It's great with a martini.

[Shannon]

I think pushing people to try tinned fish in that, like, kind of a setting is really fun too, because I think there's maybe. I don't know, I don't know how many people grew up eating it necessarily, unless it was like, I don't know, canned tuna. Yeah. So if. If it's just available for people to try little bits here and there, I think that gets people out of their comfort zone a little bit.

[Megan]

Yeah. It seems way more accessible if you're not sure if you want to buy the whole tin, but you can try it and see if you like it.

[Shannon]

And then you fall in love with it.

[Megan]

Yeah, totally.

[Anna Heazel]

There's also kind of like a nice peer pressure in a party setting where, like, you put something that's, like, a little. A little weird out there and people will sort of, like, egg each other on. It's kind of fun.

[Shannon]

I feel like. I don't think it's very weird, but I love radishes with butter and sea salt. And when I put that out, sometimes.

[Megan]

People are like, what.

[Shannon]

What is this? I'm like, no, it's so good. Just eat.

[Megan]

Yeah, just try it.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Shannon]

Peer pressure.

[Megan]

Shannon, what do you like to do for parties? What kind of stuff do you like to serve?

[Shannon]

I over serve at every party. You've been to my parties? It depends, of course, on what kind of party. I just had a brunch, like, flower arranging thing yesterday, so it was a big mix of things. But I really like, like I said, butters. Sorry, Radishes with butter and sea salt is a big one for me. Any kind of dips? Like, I always try to make my party appetizers vegan or vegetarian friendly, even though I am neither. I think it's really important to think about that when you're. And just about people's like, dietary restrictions in general and plating as well. Like, make sure you're plating it thoughtfully, both beautifully and again with a dietary restriction aspect involved. Mixes of things. I'm more of a savory person, but I know a lot of people like sweet stuff, so I always try to, like, offer a little bit of everything. And then, of course, cheese.

[Megan]

Yeah, a lot of cheese to be there.

[Shannon]

Yeah. What about you guys?

[Megan]

We also over serve. I feel like we just. We're talking about planning a party and we just keep adding and adding and adding. My grandparents because my both my grandmothers were always cooking for large crowds of people. And so I'm just used to like a table that is Totally loaded with food is very normal to me. And if there's not a table loaded with food, I'm like, I don't think I have enough for the four people coming over to my house. But I. I will always make, pretty much always make a pan of cornbread and then have some like, honey butter or maple butter or something on the table because I feel like at least here in the Pacific Northwest, you don't see cornbread as much as I would like. And it's one of my favorite foods ever. And so a party is a really good chance to just let people have cornbread. And it's fun for me to make it, so I like doing that. And then we'll do like, dips, you know, a mixture of, like, creamy things and crunchy things. So we'll do like whipped feta and then have pita chips and vegetables. We always do baba ganoush. We're talking about eggplant again. It's the subject of every episode. And then, like, I'll do like a puff pastry tart. So like just puff pastry with some kind of vegetable and, like spreadable cheese. It's so easy and everyone really loves it. And it always looks impressive too.

[Shannon]

Yeah, you gotta make sure it looks pretty.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly. People are taking photos.

[John Becker]

I feel like, you know, occasionally we'll veer towards, you know, southern style dips and spreads too. With the pimento cheese.

[Megan]

Yeah, pimento cheese.

[Shannon]

Delicious.

[Megan]

A queen among spreads.

[Shannon]

Yes, 100%.

[Megan]

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We would love to hear from you. And next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Jillian]

We got a text call, this time from Neha. So it's not a voice, it is a text. And it will be next week's topic. It's looking to be an abundant chanterelle hunting season. What is the best way to prepare chanterelles for freezing or future use?

[Megan]

That's a really good question. And I'm very excited about chanterelle season.

[Shannon]

Yes.

[Megan]

So we will answer that question in our next episode. What are all of you excited about in the week to come, food wise? Are you going out anywhere? Are you making anything, anything fun in the CSA box?

[John Becker]

The this week I have two chili preservation projects underway right now, so I'm excited to see those to fruition. I just smoked some red jalapenos and they are currently in the dehydrator. So we're going to be stocked up on chipotles here pretty soon, some Morita style chipotles. And then also found some red Serrano chilies at the market. And so we spend a bit of time stemming and getting the seeds out of them without totally destroying them. And so they get salted overnight, then they get soaked in boiling white wine vinegar overnight, and then tomorrow they get dried a little bit, and then they get confit, I guess is what you would call it in olive oil. And that's my take on Calabrian style chilies. Just because red Serrano's are pretty much all I have. That's close to that.

[Megan]

Yeah. There was a while where we could get a magical time when we could get actual Calabrian chilies from a farmer. And sadly, all their seeds were lost in a fire. And so we are now using red Serrano's. But they're really, really good. And that's one of those really fun projects because you get not just the peppers, but then you also have the oil, the spicy oil, and you have.

[John Becker]

The vinegar that they soaked in the chili and cheese. Vineg is a sleeper hit, especially just thinking about putting them on a mess of collards. Yeah. So good.

[Megan]

What about you, Anna?

[Anna Heazel]

This week I'm really working on a recipe for the book that the concept is sort of like a Spanish croquette meets clam chowder. And I basically want to create a croquette that, like, you bite into it and it tastes like chowder. Because basically, like, croquettes generally are like a really nicely seasoned bechamel sauce with, like, sometimes little bits of serrano ham, for instance. But I. I'm using canned clams, and I just want like, a really savory, delicious, creamy kind of bechamel that's fried and crispy on the outside. We'll see if it works. We'll see if it makes it into the book. That's something I'm excited to cook.

[John Becker]

Are you also going for, like, the other chowder components, like a little bit of potato and a little bit of bacon in there as well, or just kind of try to stick with the clam?

[Anna Heazel]

I'm kind of sticking with the clam. It's sort of like I'm building the bechamel with a little bit of celery and onion to get the savory flavors building. But because the bechamel has so much starch, I decided to skip the potato.

[John Becker]

Sure.

[Anna Heazel]

So yeah, yeah, we'll see if it works.

[Megan]

Well, I'm excited to get an update on that one. That sounds delicious. Thank you, Anna. Where can people find your books?

[Anna Heazel]

You can find tinder [e-mail], caputos.com despana, brandfoods.com, portugaliamarketplace.com or basically anywhere else you would buy books. Your local favorite bookstore, Ask them if they have it.

[Megan]

And where can listeners follow you?

[Anna Heazel]

I'm on Instagram Heazel.

[Megan]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts and itunes. Follow us on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle mushrooms. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production House. Thank you to Kayleen Veach, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.