We Are Joined At The Table With Heather Arndt Anderson: Inspired By Pie

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast

Episode: We Are Joined At The Table With Heather Arndt Anderson: Inspired By Pie
Release Date: November 20, 2024
Host/Author: The Joy of Creation Production House

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Introduction of Hosts

The episode kicks off with the familiar banter among the hosts:

• Shannon Larson [00:39]: Welcomes listeners and sets the stage for discussing recipes, stories, kitchen experiences, and current cooking endeavors.

• Megan Scott [01:00]: Introduces herself as the co-author of the 2019 edition of The Joy of Cooking, highlighting her role as a food editor and her signature cherry pie.

• Jon Becker [01:10]: Identifies himself as the 4th Generation Co-Author and steward of The Joy of Cooking, sharing his love for breakfast and dishwashing.

Notable Quote:
Jon Becker [01:23]: "But you're not that good at not sweating the small stuff, are you?"

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Personal Cooking Activities

The hosts share their recent culinary activities, fostering a sense of camaraderie and relatability.

• Megan [01:36]: Discusses shelling cranberry beans, a nostalgic activity connected to her grandparents.

• Shannon [02:53]: Talks about managing meals amidst hurricane preparations, relying on freezer-friendly options like IKEA meatballs, homemade gravy, mashed potatoes, and raspberry jam.

• Jon [04:09]: Shares his experience attempting to make chile rellenos, detailing his process and encouraging others to try.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Scott [02:28]: "Shelling those beans is an activity I could do for hours and hours and hours, and I just find it so, so satisfying."
Jon Becker [04:09]: "I actually found a pretty good way that saved. I think I charred and steamed and peeled, like one of those chilies in, like, five minutes."

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Guest Introduction: Heather Arndt Anderson [06:15]

The hosts warmly welcome Heather Arndt Anderson, an award-winning food writer and author of four culinary history books. Heather is recognized for her unique perspective on Oregon's culinary scene, her extensive recipe testing for The Joy of Cooking, and her Emmy-winning work.

Notable Quote:
Heather Arndt Anderson [07:08]: "Working on the Joy of Cooking feels like a much bigger accomplishment. I've always loved the book and yeah, it was just such an honor to be able to be part of its legacy in some way."

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Cooking Adventures and Stories with Heather

Heather delves into her culinary journey, emphasizing her scientific approach to cooking, her love for experimenting with unfamiliar recipes, and her involvement in community culinary projects.

• Recipe Testing [07:50]: Megan appreciates Heather's methodical recipe testing, which focuses on improvement rather than mere critique.

• Culinary Experiments [08:17]: Heather discusses testing unconventional recipes like tripe and chocolate chess pie, highlighting her playful and experimental nature in the kitchen.

• Home Cooking Innovations [09:39]: Shares her creation of a Georgian-inspired leg of lamb dish, blending traditional spices with modern techniques.

Notable Quotes:
Heather [08:20]: "The tripe I never would have cooked. And I ended up offloading it to this friend of mine."

Heather [09:14]: "What has much of the same aromatic compounds are present in both species. It helped me think of, like, what would happen if I made kimchi out of ojasanta."

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Discussion on Pie: Tasting, Recipes, Techniques [11:37]

The conversation shifts to the episode's central theme: pie. Megan introduces the segment by showcasing her homemade lemon chess pie, detailing its ingredients and unique characteristics.

• Lemon Chess Pie [12:18]: Megan describes her lemon chess pie, emphasizing its sunny color from lemon juice and zest, and its creamy texture.

• Understanding Chess Pie [12:47]: She elaborates on what defines a chess pie, mentioning the inclusion of cornmeal and sometimes vinegar, making it a versatile and pantry-friendly Southern classic.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Scott [12:50]: "A chess pie? It is not a custard pie in the traditional sense. It does have eggs, and it does have some dairy."

Heather [12:23]: "The lemon chess pie and the chocolate chess pie recipe are probably the two most common pies I make."

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Tips and Tricks for Pie Making

The hosts exchange valuable insights and troubleshooting tips for perfecting pie creations.

• Pie Crust Challenges [14:38]: Megan discusses her struggles with a pie crust that leaks butter, attributing it to possible changes in butter brands.

• Mitigating Meringue Issues [31:16]: Megan explains the switch to Italian meringue in the 2019 edition of The Joy of Cooking, highlighting its benefits over traditional meringue, such as preventing weeping and ensuring egg safety.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Scott [14:38]: "I think I need to make more pie."
Heather [31:17]: "It's the thing about meringue pie is it's tragic. They just, like, ooze their sad little tears all over the place."

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Gluten-Free Pie Crusts [36:06]

The discussion transitions to accommodating dietary restrictions with gluten-free pie crust alternatives. Megan outlines several options available in The Joy of Cooking, including meringue, crumb, nut, coconut, and cornflake crusts. Heather contributes innovative ideas, such as using shredded potato and egg for a savory crust or experimenting with beans and lentils for unique textures.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Scott [36:06]: "There's not a lot of information about gluten-free pie crusts in Joy, but we do have several alternative crusts."

Heather [38:28]: "I can use beans too, if you like had or like lentils, press them in and bake it."

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Closing Remarks and Teasers for Next Episode [40:38]

As the episode wraps up, the hosts and Heather share their upcoming culinary plans, such as baking apple-related treats and experimenting with soups. They also invite listeners to engage by sharing their cooking stories and questions for future episodes.

• Heather's Upcoming Plans [41:35]: Plans to make baked apple cider donuts, apple fritters, or apple dumplings.

• Jon's Plans [42:15]: Intends to make smoked apple butter and continue testing The Joy of Cooking recipes.

• Shannon's Plans [42:40]: Excited to prepare a roasted poblano corn chowder, balancing summer and soup flavors.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Scott [35:28]: "I rely on a flour blend that you just buy rather than buying like six different flours and mixing them together."

Heather [39:43]: "I just think you can use a little bit of xanthan gum too, to help kind of stabilize."

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Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with heartfelt thanks to Heather Arndt Anderson for her contributions and a reminder for listeners to leave reviews and follow the podcast on Instagram. The hosts express gratitude towards their production team, emphasizing the collaborative spirit that makes The Joy of Cooking Podcast a cherished resource for home cooks and culinary enthusiasts alike.

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Notable Overall Quotes:

• Shannon Larson [12:47]: "What makes a chess pie a chess pie is the inclusion of a little cornmeal and vinegar."

• Jon Becker [31:32]: "You're sliding it onto the table, and the meringue just goes a little bit further."

• Heather Arndt Anderson [39:08]: "Wrapped in sticky rice."

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This episode not only delves deep into the art and science of pie making but also celebrates the rich tapestry of personal and shared culinary experiences, embodying the true spirit of The Joy of Cooking.

Transcript

[Jon Becker]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan, and radish, enthusiastic.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, but I make a mean cherry pie.

[Jon Becker]

I am Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. I make breakfast, wash dishes, and try not to sweat the small stuff.

[Megan Scott]

But you're not that good at not sweating the small stuff, are you?

[Shannon Larson]

Terrible at that.

[Jon Becker]

Maybe I should. Maybe I should. Should I not say that?

[Megan Scott]

No, it's fine. You can say that. I.

[Jon Becker]

Shell beans.

[Shannon Larson]

He's working on it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. You do shell beans. We did some of that this week, actually. We bought some cranberry beans at the farmer's market. Yeah, they're so pretty. They're also, like, super nostalgic for me because I grew up eating them. Like, my family, my grandparents were farmers and they grew cranberry beans, but my grandmother called them October beans, I guess because they're ready in October. Ish.

[Shannon Larson]

Like spooky, scary beans. Yeah, pretty much what you should call them.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So, yeah, that is an activity. Shelling those beans is an activity I could do for hours and hours and hours, and I just find it so, so satisfying.

[Shannon Larson]

Do you just, like, listen to music and drink tea?

[Megan Scott]

Just listen to music, Hang out on the back patio, You. Yeah. And it just reminds me of, like, being with my grandparents and my family and shelling beans and just hanging out.

[Jon Becker]

The first time I met your great grandmother, she just said, come on over, sit down and help out with shelling these beans.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. She was like, get to work.

[Jon Becker]

They weren't October beans. It was like, oh, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I think maybe we were snapping string beans or something.

[Shannon Larson]

Spring beans thing. Less spooky. Scary.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, exactly. What about you? What have you done this week?

[Shannon Larson]

I phoned it in a little bit this week. Honestly, my family is like, dealing with hurricane stuff and potential hurricane stuff, so it's been a freezer, heavy meal week for us. But Ikea meatballs, we get a bag of those every single time we go to Ikea, which is not very often, and those have come in Handy.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

So.

[Shannon Larson]

So how do you serve them anyway? Like, we actually made Swedish meatballs last night, so I did homemade gravy, but with, like, the lack of meatball prep, which is nice.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's really nice.

[Shannon Larson]

And mashed potatoes and homemade raspberry jam.

[Megan Scott]

Perfect. Perfect. Yum.

[Shannon Larson]

But we did a lot of good stuff. And we're also, like, harvesting things from our garden, and I'm thinking of, like, how many green tomatoes we have currently and how we're going to ripen them indoors. That's kind of my current. That's next week's project.

[Megan Scott]

Okay. I've definitely seen some stuff lately about hanging, like, trying to cut them off with some of the stems and then hanging them up and then trying to.

[Shannon Larson]

Ripen them that way also would look pretty.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

Let me know how that goes.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm gonna try it.

[Megan Scott]

Cool. Anything you'd like to share with the table?

[Jon Becker]

Well, yeah, I think that at the end of the last episode, I said that I was gonna be making some chili's rellenos. I'm gonna mess that up every time. Yeah, so.

[Megan Scott]

And you did.

[Jon Becker]

Finally followed through on that, like, last night. It took a long time. The big gym chilies that they were just sitting in the refrigerator for, just making me feel bad for a while.

[Shannon Larson]

What are big, Jim?

[Jon Becker]

They're a type of New Mexico chili that. Well, they're. They're big, and I guess, like, compared to other ones, they just have a very thick flesh. So they're really good for stuffing because of that. Because they're pretty sturdy. Because, like. Yeah, the process of, like, charring and roasting it, really, especially with, like, thin. I mean, I'm thinking specifically. Specifically of poblanos. I hate charring and peeling poblanos because I'm always tearing holes in them. But, yeah, the big gyms are good that way.

[Megan Scott]

And not super spicy and not very spicy. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

In an attempt to kind of, like, use the big gyms, before I did the chili's renos, I actually did. I was like, for this scramble, I just want to quickly roast one of the big gems just to put into the scramble for breakfast, because that's. I do breakfast, as you may know. And, yeah, I actually found a pretty good way that saved. I think I charred and steamed and peeled, like, one of those chilies in, like, five minutes. But, yeah, put it on a. Put it on one of the burners on, like, medium high, maybe high. And at the same time, I used a blowtorch, because we have. We have a blowtorch, and it doesn't get used very often. So, you know, but for things like this, it's pretty useful. And then instead of like covering it, I just, I didn't, I was like, I don't have time for that. I'm just going to throw it in the microwave. And did that for like a minute and change and it worked really well. The peeling was like a little bit harder than normal, but like the flesh was like super intact, which is more than I can say for the like charring method I used for the chili Spanios.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that was a really good idea to throw it in the microwave to get it to kind of steam it, I thought. So write that down.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm jotting it down right now.

[Jon Becker]

Writing it down.

[Megan Scott]

I would love to welcome our guest to this week's podcast, Heather Arndt Anderson. She is an award winning food writer and the author of four books on culinary history. She is the producer of OPB's Superabundant newsletter. OPB is Oregon Public Broadcasting for those of you who don't live in Oregon. Her background in plant ecology and soil science gives her a unique perspective on the foods Oregon does best. And her love of cooking spans decades, whether it's working in the school cafeteria, fermenting quince vinegar in her urban farmstead, finding new ways to use up a jar of Thai crab paste, or foraging stinging nettles in swampy Johnson Creek floodplains. Food is her jam. She also makes pretty good jam. She was also a recipe tester for the 2019 Joy of Cooking and she is an EMM award winner, which is a pretty big deal.

[Shannon Larson]

Huge.

[Megan Scott]

Welcome to the podcast, Heather.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Thanks. Thank you. It's so funny to finish with the Emmy thing because it's pretty recent, but working on the Joy of Cooking feels like a much bigger accomplishment. Simp, I love that. I've always loved the book and yeah, it was just such an honor to be able to be part of its legacy in some way.

[Megan Scott]

It was very fun to work with you on that because I loved it because you're such an experienced cook and yet still a home cook at heart that I feel like you were able to ask the right questions and troubleshoot things. Which is super, super helpful because it wasn't just like getting feedback like, oh, this is terrible. It was like, here's how you could improve this recipe. So I really appreciated that.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I try to treat cooking and recipe testing the same way I would any other kind of lab science. Basically, you have to take notes. You have to use descriptive language. You can't just say this Sucks or this bad. What's bad about it? And so, yeah, it was just really fun to be able to kind of pry into the little, the details and the nuts and bolts of these recipes. And a lot of the recipes are ones I never would have tried if I hadn't been like put to the task of testing them.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, didn't you test some like, game, wild game recipes?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I did, but I cook, I do cook quite a bit of game just because I was also doing recipes for an exotic meat and game purveyor in town and grew up eating Venice medicine and stuff. But there was one I, the tripe I never would have cooked. And I ended up offloading it to this friend of mine. She's Singaporean but grew up in Hong Kong. And so she, yeah, she loves tripe. And she like came over and brought me all this Stumptown coffee.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, nice.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, really good trade. And then there was this hamburger casserole that was just wonderful. And it was, it's so kitschy. It kind of tastes like a cheeseburger, but has. It looks kind of like the kind of recipe you would see mocked on one of those like, retro food Instagram accounts. It had the bread shingles, the shingled bread. I think it's so sweet.

[Jon Becker]

It's a wonderful presentation. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I think it looks very, very charming when you make it.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

It also inspired me to make other kind of casseroles like that. Like I made a chili dog casserole and shingled the buns, just use regular hot dog buns, but cut them into bite sized pieces and yeah, it was great. And I was like, yeah, directly inspired by that.

[Jon Becker]

Well, before we set the table, have you cooked anything or tasted anything that you'd like to share this week?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh, yeah, I had a really busy week. I made a huge batch of fig and white, like kind of golden plum, sweet and sour sauce and canned it. So I made like nine and a half pints of that. I made sopes for the newsletter, so that was really fun. Working with masa is so like, it's, it's like a sensory experience that you would give to a child with special needs almost. It's like, it is so therapeutic to touch this like warm sauce.

[Megan Scott]

Like. But yeah, so being warm is like a bonus.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

And it's scented, which, you know, it smells like sweet corn. So it's. Yeah, it's the best.

[Jon Becker]

Were you working with fresh masa?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

No, I got the masienda masa harina. Yeah, the red corn one. It's really really fragrant. So easy to work with. Yeah. It doesn't really need anything but one to one water. I used some Korean chilies and Korean zucchini from the garden, actually, in that. The soap and some beans that I grew. I grow cranberry beans also because they're really pretty. The. When they're still in the shell. You can, I think, eat them if you string. You don't have to string them, but you, like, run them through one of those, like, bean slicers and. Yeah. So you can eat it as a fresh bean or as a shelling bean.

[Megan Scott]

What's a bean slicer?

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh, my gosh. Do you remember on the old school vegetable peelers, the ones that are just long and skinny and then they have like, one end is a vegetable peeler blade and the other end has this, like, little kind of square with like three little blades kind of jammed in? It's.

[Megan Scott]

I don't remember. I remember my mom's vegetable peeler, but I don't think it had that end to it.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

This one was probably from, like the 60s. It was really old and, you know, back when things really lasted. But. Yeah. So you, like shove the bean through and then pull it out and it frenches it for you.

[Megan Scott]

That's cool.

[Shannon Larson]

Why are we not using this?

[Megan Scott]

I know. Oh, there's a picture of one.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Okay, well, we need to get one. Yeah, I know. We're moving on to the Set the table segment where we taste something delicious and talk about it. And it's usually related to our weekly theme. And this week's theme is pie. So we are tasting a lemon chess pie that I made today. So it's very much a classic, like chess pie just with lemon juice and lemon zest added as a really pretty sunny color. Thanks to all the egg yolks. So. Yeah, let's pass the pie and try it.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I love the joy of cooking chess pie, and I'm gonna stop blowing sunny weather up your ass, I promise.

[Megan Scott]

But I.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

The lemon chess pie and the chocolate chess pie recipe are probably the two most common pies I make. They're just so good. And I have a lot of eggs right now, and so it would be a good time to make one.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. The chocolate one is my favorite ever, and I always make it at Thanksgiving.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, I like to put a little bit of cornmeal in the. In the custard just for a little bit of texture.

[Shannon Larson]

What is a chess pie? Like, what makes a chess pie a chess pie?

[Megan Scott]

A chess pie? It is not a custard. Pie in the traditional sense. It does have eggs, and it does have some dairy. This recipe has only a third cup of cream and then a third cup of lemon juice, egg yolks, and egg. But I feel like what really makes a chess pie a chess pie is the inclusion of a little cornmeal and vinegar. I did not use vinegar in this one just because it has so much lemon juice in it. I figured it wasn't necessary. But usually you'll see a little vinegar, like a tablespoon of vinegar, and then maybe a tablespoon or two of cornmeal in it. Okay. It's a pretty classic Southern pie. I ate them a lot growing up, but, yeah, they're just really simple and delicious. You can make them with. I love chess pie so much because I almost always have all the stuff to make it. It basically just needs pantry ingredients and then a little dairy. You can use buttermilk instead of cream. It's just really versatile. And you can make them in any flavor.

[Shannon Larson]

It's like a pantry.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah. It's in the sugar pie family of pies, isn't it? Like a shaker pies and like, transparent pie.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah. Pecan pie. It's like if the pecan piece filling that good stuff below the pecans were just a whole pie, I bet it'd.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Be really good with apple cider, too. Have that nice tart, bright apple flavor.

[Megan Scott]

So I'm struggling a little with my pie crust right now. I think the pie tastes good, but I've been having this issue where my pie crust just leaks butter in the oven. And I am using a recipe I've used many times successfully. In fact, I used to use it when I had a little baking business and made pies every week, and they always turned out great. And lately, for some reason, I think I'm just not in practice enough. I think I just need to make more pie.

[Shannon Larson]

More pie for your friends.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Did you switch butter brands?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Some butter has more water.

[Megan Scott]

That's possible. I never use the same kind of butter.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, I usually just use what's on sale local.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, I love any pie that has, like, citrus in it. Personally. It's so good. I love it.

[Megan Scott]

But very lemony, very creamy. And it's kind of different from, like, a lemon meringue pie filling because I feel like the lemon meringue is more almost. This is not usually a nice word, but gelatinous. Like, it just has a little bit more stiffness to it. And the chest pie is super creamy and very lightly set. Cause it's only using the eggs as the, you know, thickener.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, it's more like lemon curd than lemon pudding.

[Megan Scott]

Exactly.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I think that crust actually would be really good with a savory pie. Cause it's pretty sturdy. I think it could hold up really well to like gravy and soft, juicy vegetables.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I was actually thinking of using the other half. Cause it's made two crusts, but using the other half to do like a. I want to try a bean based pot pie.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Kind of a gravy to have the beans in. Especially those big Corona beans. Yeah. And then have the.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, we have some Coronas that we're. We're not struggling to find something to do with them. But you know, just thinking of it's.

[Megan Scott]

Just two people and a pound of beans is a lot. That's a lot of beans for two people. Freeze.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, I cook a lot of beans and just freeze them in one cup tubs. So I can always have a burrito or I can always just make soup real quick. And that's a good idea. It works really well. And that because I like to cook a whole pound at once in the pressure cooker, it's just so much easier.

[Shannon Larson]

I told my. We have beans on the menu, my husband and I, and I was like, well, we should just cook the whole pack. And he's like, we don't need to. But now I'm like, no, we should. Because I can just mix them with like scrambled eggs or something in the morning too.

[Megan Scott]

And don't you have a basement freezer?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

We do, yeah. It really helps. So we actually. Our fridge just died recently. The one. Yeah. And so we replaced it with a fancy. It's got the French doors and the little bottom drawer freezer. You don't really realize how much you hoard condiments until you have to empty your fridge completely. And I was like, oh my God. So I had the entire upper rack of my dishwasher was just empty jars, you know, from half. Like a thing of peach chutney or some like sambal or weird pickles or I just save like olive brine sometimes. Cause it's like this is really flavorful and there's olive oil floating on it. Why would I just. You know, I could put more vegetables in this.

[Megan Scott]

Anyways, this is sounding very familiar. I was gonna say.

[Jon Becker]

One of the shelves on our door, on our fridge door. Like it's busted like three or four times now. Just because of the weight of all the condiments shifting.

[Megan Scott]

It just occasionally falls off, and then you have to pick up all the.

[Jon Becker]

Condiments, and there's lots of cursing and.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. All right. So, Heather, could you describe your home cooking style?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh, yeah. I've been cooking for a really long time. I started reading cookbooks such as the Joy of Cooking when I was a child and trying the recipes. My parents were kind of weird about me cooking because we were poor, and they didn't want me to, like, ruin or waste food. I don't think that they thought I was going to take it seriously. I thought that they. I think they probably just assumed I was gonna make messes and make mud pies or whatever. So sometimes when they were at work, I would just cook without them around. And I was really interested in recipes that were unfamiliar to me, not just learning how to do stuff that I already, you know, ate. So I started checking out Gourmet magazine at the library. I would bring home a big bag of magazines and rip copy. I know, copy down the recipes and enter recipe contests, which I never want any. But fast forward to high school. I became a vegetarian, and my parents made me start buying my own groceries and cooking my own meals because they were gonna, like, do separate shopping for me. And, yeah, that's. I got really into stir fries and wanted to get more into cooking food from East Asia and South Asia because it was very vegetarian friendly and it was really affordable. So, yeah, my exploration into kind of multicultural approach to cooking came from that period. And also growing up in Portland, like, you know, you go to Thai restaurants, you go to, you know, Japanese places. It's. We have access to so many different cuisines. The thing that I think is unique about my style of cooking is that because I have a background in botany and have studied, like, organic chemistry, I understand flavors in a slightly different way than just by tasting everything. I kind of understand how, like, if this plant. Well, for example, I mentioned in my newsletter this week, hoja Santa or Mexican pepper leaf, is a member of the pepper family, like, you know, peppercorns. And it smells very root beery, the leaf, but it also has some sort of, like, undertones that are more. A little bit minty and a little bit savory. And it reminded me a lot of perilla leaf, like, the big Korean ones, even though they're in a completely different plant family. Just because some of the same aromatic compounds are present in both species. It helped me think of, like, well, what would happen if I made kimchi out of ojasanta, you know, like the gainip kimchi, which, you know, you can eat as a regular kimchi or you can use it as like a salad. I mean, a lettuce wrap wrapper for some. So, yeah, I'll just kind of start geeking out on things like that. I also have adhd and so I spend a lot of time, like really deep diving and ruminating and like, not spiraling, but, you know, like, definitely thinking about ingredients and plants and food in a way that's very hyper focused.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I saw your photo on Instagram of the Hoja Santa leaves and I did. I'd never. I guess I had never seen them in person. I've seen like the dried ones, which are all.

[Jon Becker]

They're impressively large when they're dried, but those look gigantic.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, they're big. I found the plant at Los Panaguitas market. It's a produce stand. It's like, it's not really a produce stand. It's bigger than that. But this Latino market in Woodburn and it's. Yeah, they will occasionally have potted plants. I bought another herb last year, but it didn't make it over the winter. But yeah, I just bring it in the house during the cold months. And I think technically our zone is just like about the edge of where it can. How much cold it can handle. So if you keep it in a sheltered place, you can grow it outside. And it's really just an attractive plant. Even if you don't cook with it much, it's nice to have.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome. What is the best thing you've made this week?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

So I did all the canning. What else did I do? I made a bunch of pickles.

[Megan Scott]

What kind of pickles?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

They were just garlicky dills. I. Yeah, I. Yeah, I have been called a pickle savant and I'm in this, like, joke. This is very exclusive group text called Pickle Pals. It's just me, Nevin Mergen and Andy Baio. Like, these two, like software designer, like people who also are not culinary professionals. But yeah, we just talk about pickles. I have another group chat with Nevin and his brother about tin fish. It's called tiny fishes and yeah, it's.

[Shannon Larson]

Just they're speaking my languages right now.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Dorky group chats.

[Jon Becker]

Is Nevin still posting his sardine brunch?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

He's not really on Instagram anymore, but yes, that is him. Oh, I know. The best thing I made was I got a two pound boneless leg of lamb and I rubbed it with all of these. It always makes me like to say Caucasian spices, which, you know, is not just salt. And pepper. In this case, we're talking about the Caucasus, Central Asia. So lots of, like, blue fenugreek and cumin, coriander and camelli sennelli. This Georgian spice blend. And. Yeah. And so. And then a lot of winter savory and whole shallots. Cause I needed to use some up. And so I just slow roasted it for, like, I don't know, five or six hours until it was falling ap when it was, like, about to. And then I smeared some quince preserves on it to get kind of, like, you know, sticky. And then I served it on a gigantic pita. I found this new international market called best fresh on 165th. Have you been there yet? It's pretty close to Holly.

[Megan Scott]

We have driven by it so many.

[Jon Becker]

Times, it's almost a running joke because we're. I don't know, we're always on the opposite side of division when we're going by it for some. For some reason or other. And I'm always like, we should go there. And it's happened like 10 times.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

They have great flatbreads, and some of them are in the freezer. Like, they have a lavash that could cover this whole table. I mean, you know, and it's like razor thin. And then they have these big pitas. And so I just shredded the lamb and had some roasted pumpkin from the garden as well. And little leftover baba ganoush, which doesn't really match. But eggplant is pretty common in Georgian cuisine. So I was like, I can just put a little sumac and some sour whatever on it and it'll. It'll work. And it worked. It was good.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Is an eggplant caviar would be a known thing, right? I mean, or is that more of a. Might be not, I think.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I don't know how many eggplant spreads or dips are used in Georgia, but I. I know they do like a. Is it badrajani? Is it the one where it's thinly sliced and then you have like a chopped walnut pate and you roll it up and then. Yeah, and then it's kind of got like a pomegranate molasses type of dressing or drizzle on it? Yeah. And then it's like they roast the eggplant first, though, so it's really nice and chewy and sticky.

[Jon Becker]

That sounds delicious.

[Megan Scott]

Incredible. It sounds like a really good kind of segue into, you know, more like roast season, soup season.

[Shannon Larson]

Cozy food, especially with, like, the pumpkin addition. That's, like, where I'm Going right now, like, okay. Changing my mind from, like, fresh tomatoes and peppers and getting into the gourds.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah. I think that this time of year is so interesting because I do still see chilies and tomatillos in my garden. And it makes me think of, you know, sunny Mexican food. The tomatoes are probably not even going to have any green ones. I think they did not so well this year. But then, yeah, I've got all these, like, little pumpkins and so it's. And then it's so nice and sunny out, too. It's like, I want to pick summery things still. But roasts and soups and pumpkin are a great way to change your mind about summer, I guess.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

It's funny, on the way over here, Megan had a plan to do some soup tonight, and I was like, I want to grill something, please.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I think we are probably going to do both grill and soup.

[Jon Becker]

I don't know how that's going to work, really. Well. Yeah, we'll see.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, I wanted to make a cauliflower soup, which is very simple and plain. So I think having some, like, grilled chicken on the side is totally fine. I don't know. It doesn't have to. We don't have to be matchy matchy with the food.

[Jon Becker]

Damn it.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

You can also put, like, smoked and grilled stuff in the soup.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

My last question is, what would you say you are known for cooking wise? Like, is there something that you always bring to the potluck or something everyone asks for?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I do think that pickles might be on that list. I was. My friends Chris and Lauren got married a couple weeks ago. They'd reached out like a month prior to see if I would be able to provide pickles for their reception. And, yeah, I usually bring pickles or some kind of egg salad. One time, yeah, sometimes deviled eggs, sometimes just egg salad, like mini sandwiches. And the first time I did that, my husband was like, what are you doing bringing egg salad to a. Like a summer picnic? Like, nobody's. And they disappeared in, like, under five minutes.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh, yeah. But yeah, in retrospect, it does sound kind of crazy to bring, like, just, you know, the yellow jackets didn't even have a chance.

[Megan Scott]

Bless you for bringing deviled eggs. I always want to eat deviled eggs.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Me too. They're such a pain to make. But I have so many eggs right now that are kind of. They've just been in our garage fridge for, I don't know, weeks.

[Megan Scott]

Because you have chickens.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

We have chickens, yes. And we have new, like, young chickens. Three young girls who just started laying this year. And so I'm getting like two dozen eggs a week.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

And, you know, we made Tamago Sando's and just a bunch of like, I felt like we were in Napoleon Dynamite. Like, we had so many eggs. Like, here's some little hard boiled eggs. Here's some egg salad sandwiches. Here's a little egg in your ramen. Here's. You know, it was so silly, but they are a great way to disappear a bunch of eggs.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I feel like deviled eggs are one of those, like, love language foods, too. Like, every time I go visit my mother, she always has deviled eggs ready, like, always. And I'm like, I never make these for myself, but I would make these for somebody I really care about or, like, you know, like a potluck or friends coming over. I don't know. It's a nice thing.

[Megan Scott]

Does your mom have a deviled egg plate?

[Shannon Larson]

You know what? No. They just kind of slide around a little bit.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

But it's a great gift.

[Shannon Larson]

They're always. Her deviled eggs are my favorite. They will always be my favorite. And she has the perfect amount of paprika every single time. Always impressed.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's my grandma. My grandma always makes really good deviled eggs. She has a deviled egg platter. I love those on. And it's really. It's like that bird's egg blue color and it has like a gold, you know, leaf edge around it.

[Shannon Larson]

That sounds beautiful.

[Megan Scott]

My favorite piece of dishware. I don't know. It's something. One of these days I'm like, I don't care about anything else, but I want that deviled eggplate. Heather, where can listeners follow you online if they would like to?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I'm pretty active on Instagram and my Instagram handle is just eatherarntanderson. And you can subscribe to my newsletter. It's more like a column. It's not. It goes a little deeper than a newsletter, I think, but yeah. Opb.org superabundant and it comes a week.

[Megan Scott]

I recommend.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Thank you.

[Megan Scott]

So in this segment, we'll discuss our topic. So the topic is pie. Fun fact. There was a bridal edition of Joy of Cooking. It was the 1975 edition.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

This is the one my mom has. That's really.

[Jon Becker]

Wow.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

It came in a special box for gifting.

[Jon Becker]

I saw it once. I saw one copy once. I haven't seen it since.

[Megan Scott]

Does your dad have it?

[Jon Becker]

It might be buried in a Box.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like you need to find it.

[Jon Becker]

I would like to find it. It's a daunting collection of boxes he has amassed. Yes. But someday.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, the. The lemon meringue pie is such an iconic one. We didn't want to fuss with it too much for the 2019 edition. But we did make one kind of. Kind of major ish change, which is that instead of calling for just a standard meringue, we use an Italian meringue. And so with Italian meringue, you make a sugar syrup, and you heat it up to a specific temperature. You drizzle it into your egg whites as they're being beaten in your mixer. And basically what that does is it kind of cooks the meringue and stabilizes it so that when you put it on top of the pie, well, first of all, it's already cooked, so you don't have to worry about putting it back in the oven, toasting it, it not being cooked enough or too cooked. All you have to do is brown it. And we usually use a torch, but you could use the. The broiler. So it just kind of gives you a little more control over how brown it's getting. And it always has this really nice marshmallowy, smooth texture that I really love.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

It doesn't weep either.

[Megan Scott]

Exactly.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

That's the thing about meringue pie is it's tragic is.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

They just, like, ooze their sad little.

[Megan Scott]

Tears all over the place, and then the meringue will separate and there will be this, like, slippery layer underneath. Yeah, it's not. It's not the best.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. You're sliding it onto the table, and the meringue just goes a little bit further. Yeah. Oh, that's 238 to 240 degrees on this.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, I was right. 230 is over.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I knew in my heart.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

And that also makes it safe for people who have compromised immune systems. Right. So not eat raw eggs.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. That is a nice bonus. I feel like this is the second.

[Shannon Larson]

Time you both have mentioned having a blowtorch, though, in different. Like, is that something that I should be purchasing? Like, it sounds like it actually would be pretty convenient to have.

[Jon Becker]

I use it for lighting coals. I use it for what? Yeah, charring chilies.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

That's.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I was thinking chilies. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And obviously, like, you know, anything bruleed. Yeah. Meringues. We also use it. We have a fireplace, a wood burning.

[Shannon Larson]

Fireplace, which you do too, right now. We do, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

We also use it to start fires in the fireplace.

[Shannon Larson]

I Think I'm going to get a bleach.

[Megan Scott]

It's cheating, but it's really nice.

[Jon Becker]

It's especially shameful for me because my. My father growing up would challenge me to, like, you know, he was. He's really big into primitive skills, like.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

You know, ron Swanson.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

100%.

[Jon Becker]

You know, like, do the. Do the kindling just so. And make, you know, make, like, little shavings so that you can light a fire with one match.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I can light up. I know. I totally, like, think of dads like that when I ever, like, stick the landing on the one match. But. Yeah. And then blowtorches are just so much easier, though.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm.

[Megan Scott]

We don't have. Don't get the little puny culinary quote, unquote culinary torch. Get like, the. What is a burnsomatic?

[Jon Becker]

It's called a burnsomatic.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I feel like. I feel like I need your exact recommendation.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

A little green propane. Okay.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, I have one. I have a little wimpy culinary one that I got as a wedding gift. And it, like, you have to shove the butane and it only holds enough to, like, do one creme brulee. So pathetic.

[Megan Scott]

Frustrating.

[Shannon Larson]

I just want to light my fire. Yeah, let's go for it. I don't know. My Eagle Scout husband is going to be like, we're not using, like, kindling. And I'm like, no, this is going to be so fun.

[Megan Scott]

Sounds really awesome, too. It sounds like you really mean business when you turn that thing on.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I love it.

[Jon Becker]

I would be remiss at this point to not recommend that if you do get the burnt somatic for culinary purposes, that it would behoove you to get the serizole an attachment for. I think that Dave Arnold would say that it turns the torch. Dave Arnold is a food expert, entrepreneur, podcaster. Podcaster, of course, Legendary podcaster. But yeah, turns the torch into basically, oh, miniature salamander. So it disperses the flame of the burnsomatic. And so it just creates a wider, you know, kind of heat that kind of diffuse. It diffuses it a little bit, but it's just. It allows you to cover a wider area.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

But, yeah, it's great for toasting cheese.

[Jon Becker]

Very good.

[Shannon Larson]

Very good for cheese and cheese. I'm in.

[Megan Scott]

One thing I love. Love. I don't hate it. But one thing that's hard about pie, but I also love about pie, is that it just takes. Pie just takes time. You just have to set aside the time to do it. You can't be Rushed. I feel like whenever I'm rushed, that's when I start to have problems. So you really have to like say, okay, this afternoon is just about pie and not be in a hurry, which is hard because I think we're so much in the mindset of like, oh, I have to get dinner on the table in 30 minutes. You can't do that with pie. You have to have a different sort of mindset.

[Jon Becker]

Well, and if you are in that situation, there's. There's no shame in getting a store bought. Oh, sure, you know, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Megan Scott]

Or do like a crumb, a couple.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Of shortcuts that make homemade, like from scratch, basic, flaky, from whatever page, which way of cooking. I still use that recipe. I have it written on a little index card taped in my cupboard where I keep the flour and stuff. But I use the food processor to mix the dough so I don't have to worry about melting the butter with my hands or being too slow. And then when I wrap at the disc, I just put it in the freezer for 15 or 20 minutes instead of fridge for an hour. And that really like saves a lot of time. And then you just, you know, beat it with your pin to kind of, you know, loosen it up a little bit. But usually works pretty well.

[Megan Scott]

Nice. Yeah, that definitely cuts down on a lot of time if you can shorten that fridge time. So there aren't a. There's not a lot of information about gluten free pie crusts in Joy. However, we do have several alternative crusts that you can use instead of like a flour based crust. So there's a, there's a meringue crust which is delicious. You can't fill it until you're ready to eat because it will just kind of melt. But it's really good for like if you want to make a fruit pie. I feel like the meringue is delicious. And then there's a crumb crust which you can make with gluten free cookies. And then there's a nut crust which is just nuts and sugar and butter and a coconut crust and a cornflake crust which you have to make sure you're getting the gluten free cornflakes. But there are gluten free cornflakes that you can use. So there are, there are several options, I would say. I haven't done a ton of gluten free baking, but I rely. When I do do it, I use a flour blend that you just buy rather than buying like six different flours and mixing them Together. Because that always drove me a little bit wild.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, I think we, we briefly thought about, you know, calling for special blends in, in the last edition and it was just like, yeah, this is probably a bridge too far for most people. And there's like all of these ready made, ready made products that are coming out that are just like one to one substitutions.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

On the meringue high shell, could you do like a chocolate layer? What do you think that would moisture proof it?

[Megan Scott]

I mean, it would help if you brushed on some melted chocolate. I don't know, I haven't tried it.

[Jon Becker]

Now that was one of the. Yeah, that was definitely like one of the tips that was offered in the 1997 edition. I don't know if we carried that one over, but because it always, I think it seemed like it was of limited use, you know, just to pie flavors that chocolate would go well with.

[Megan Scott]

But I mean that immediately. I'm thinking about the meringue with brushed with chocolate and then strawberries and maybe whipped cream too.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Sliced oranges. You can also do a savory gluten free pie crust by using shredded potato and egg. Oh yeah, bake that. Yeah, that's an old like Moosewood hippie vegetarian. You know, like she's gonna put like 2 pounds of cheese in that pie, but at least the crust is gluten free.

[Megan Scott]

Do you do much gluten free baking?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I do as little as I possibly can while I can still tolerate gluten. Yeah, I don't have to avoid gluten, but I do make foods that are incidentally gluten free. Just because Mexican cooking uses more corn and you know, using more rice than flour and some Asian dishes. I bet you could make a cool crust with like beans too, if you like had or like lentils, like press them in and. Yeah, and bake it. So be like a crispy little kind of crackery crust. Ooh, good.

[Jon Becker]

Maybe sticky rice. Would that work?

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh, maybe, maybe.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, gosh, I'd be so good.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Wrapped in sticky rice.

[Shannon Larson]

Like a mango pie sticky rice situation.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Oh, God.

[Jon Becker]

Sticky rice.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Well, there are those new Trader Joe's snacks that are like mango sticky rice bites and it's like crispy sticky rice with little bits of dried mango embedded in it. And it's very good. I mean, I like that direction though. I think that might be worth trying.

[Shannon Larson]

I think you should test it out and let me try it.

[Jon Becker]

Well, I guess we'll have this podcast as a record of what we should be doing. I'll write it down later.

[Shannon Larson]

I'll send you a text.

[Megan Scott]

Don't worry.

[Shannon Larson]

Be like, hey, John, remember, make us that pie.

[Megan Scott]

Okay. I was also, I was doing a little bit of digging into gluten free pie crusts and a lot of recipes that I came across use egg. So in addition to, since you're not, you don't have the gluten to help bind things, I think adding an egg is a really good idea to just because I think, you know, the nice thing about gluten free pie crust is you're never going to overwork it. On the other hand, it might be very difficult to roll out or get shape in any way. So I think having an egg would be a plus. And then probably rolling out the dough between sheets of parchment paper instead of trying to just do it on a, on a surface so you can easily, like plop it into the, the pie dish.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I wonder if you can use a little bit of xanthan gum too, to help kind of stabilize. Yeah, just keep it more like gelled.

[Megan Scott]

And some of those flower blends do contain xanthan gum already. And that's, that's a really good idea.

[Shannon Larson]

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or you can send us a text. We would love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[E]

Hi, this is Gillian and this message is for the Joy of Cooking podcast. I am calling with a cooking conundrum. I need help because I had a party last weekend and I have three cups of sour cream leftover. Can you give me ideas to use up 3 cups of sour cream in any kind of recipes over the next week? Thank you.

[Megan Scott]

So next week we'll answer Jillian's question and talk about party appetizers. So we're talking about what we want to try, what we're excited about, and what will inspire us to keep the joy alive this coming week. So, like, what are we thinking? What are folks making this week or planning for or hoping to eat this week?

[Shannon Larson]

My meal tracker.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Because of this, I'm going to make either baked apple cider donuts or apple fritters or apple dumplings. It's something with apples for this week's recipe, but I can't decide if I want to do the old school, like a baked apple with like the pastry shell on the outside or if I want to do more like the rustic donut type with like just chunks of apples in it. But yeah, something Appley and desserty and, like, covered in cinnamon sugar definitely on the menu.

[Megan Scott]

That's a good conundrum. The. The joy of cooking apple dumpling recipe is very good. It has, like, the orangey syrup that you pour over, and it gets concentrates. It's delicious.

[Jon Becker]

It's a favorite.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we.

[Jon Becker]

We felt like. I remember when we were sitting down to test that one, we're like, oh, this is gonna be stotchy. Or just like old stuff school and kind of frumpy. And it doesn't. It's not like a looker, but it's absolutely delicious.

[Megan Scott]

So good.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, I'll probably be doing that. I mean, we have to make up a batch of smoked apple butter, so. Speaking of, like, combining grilling and more fall type pursuits.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I saw that. We have possibly three cloudy days, and I'm a cloudy day kind of girl. I know. I love a cloudy day. I love an excuse. This sounds so basic, but I love a soup. So I'm gonna do a roasted poblano corn chowder this week because I still kind of want to honor summer. And also I'm into soup. I'm ready for soup. So it's time.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yes.

[Megan Scott]

I want to make that too.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm just gonna make it up. I'm not even gonna, like, base it off of anything. I just think it's gonna be a night where it's a little cloudy, and I'm gonna turn on music that I like and just figure it out and just have fun with it.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Great. Yeah. I had an idea recently, speaking of that soup that you mentioned, to try to make a gnocchi type dumpling out of masa that you can, like, simmer in a soup or steam first. So you'd have, like, these little chewy pillows of, like, tamales basically in your soup.

[Megan Scott]

I feel like.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds so good.

[Megan Scott]

There's a name for those, and I'm not remembering what it is now, but they're like little round masa dumplings, and they have like, a YouTube stick your finger in to make a, like, a little indentation.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

I have seen that.

[Megan Scott]

That's really good.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Yeah, it's like a little belly button, I think is like the name.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. It's probably kind of like polenta. You know, you can use that too, but yum. Soups.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks so much for joining us, Heather. It was super fun to talk about food with you. You're. You're one of my favorite food people because I feel like you're always doing something totally different. Different. Or you know, just like, oh, I didn't know you. I never thought of that. I didn't know you could do that. So, like, I love, I love just talking about food with you.

[Heather Arndt Anderson]

Thanks. Yeah, I love talking about food with you, too.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts and itunes. Follow us on instagram @the joyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle hearty appetizers. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we, of course, could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Kayleen Veach, our production coordinator, Hayley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.