We Are Joined At The Table With Liz Crain: Inspired By The Holidays

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: Episode Summary Title: We Are Joined At The Table With Liz Crain: Inspired By The Holidays
Release Date: December 18, 2024
Hosts: Megan Scott, Jon Becker, Shannon Larson
Guest: Liz Crane

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Introduction

In this special holiday edition of The Joy of Cooking Podcast, hosted by Megan Scott, Jon Becker, and Shannon Larson, the team takes a festive detour to celebrate the season with guest Liz Crane. The episode delves into holiday culinary traditions, fermentation passion projects, favorite recipes from Joy of Cooking, and a delightful tasting segment featuring icebox cookies.

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Welcoming Liz Crane

The episode kicks off with the hosts introducing Liz Crane, a renowned cookbook author and co-founder of the Portland Fermentation Festival. Liz shares her extensive background in food writing, recipe development, and her love for fermentation.

Liz Crane (07:17):
"I love food and I am a cookbook author. I've written, co-authored different cookbooks such as Toro Bravo, The Tasty Cookbook, Fermentor Cookbook Book, Dumplings Equal Love, and Food Lovers Guide to Portland. I'm also the co-founder and organizer of the Portland Fermentation Festival."

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Exploring Fermentation

Liz elaborates on her journey into fermentation, inspired by Sandor Katz's Wild Fermentation. She discusses the intricacies of fermenting various foods and the sensory experiences it offers.

Liz Crane (08:02):
"Fermentation is so sensorial. You're learning to trust your senses—smell, sight, and even sound. It's always a surprise, much like the anticipation of what might be under the holiday tree."

The conversation touches on her efforts to make fermentation accessible, especially for children, highlighting the festival's "bacterial petting zoo."

Jon Becker (10:16):
"I admire how Liz manages her fermentation projects, especially the long-term ferments like Shoyu or Dobanjang. It's inspiring how she balances quantity and quality."

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Holiday Recipes and Traditions

The hosts and Liz share their cherished holiday recipes and family traditions, emphasizing the blend of old and new culinary practices.

Shannon Larson (35:25):
"Cranberry sauce is the unsung hero of the holiday table. It brings everything together with its bright and tangy flavor."

Jon Becker (38:27):
"We make our special eggnog every year. It's boozy and perfect for holiday gatherings."

Liz introduces unique family traditions from Cincinnati, including a fermented soda challenge and Cincinnati chili with dumplings.

Liz Crane (36:17):
"We always make dumplings with our Cincinnati chili buffet style. It's a fun and time-honored tradition that brings us together every Christmas."

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Tasting Segment: Icebox Cookies

Megan Scott presents her homemade icebox cookies in three flavors: cranberry ginger with orange glaze, lime cardamom, and chocolate. The group tastes and discusses the versatility and nostalgic value of icebox cookies.

Megan Scott (14:13):
"These icebox cookies have been enjoyed since 1931. They're forgiving and perfect for experimenting with different flavors, making them a staple for holiday baking."

Shannon Larson (15:38):
"I love how the orange glaze adds a beautiful striped pattern. It's as delicious as it is visually appealing."

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Holiday Cooking Tips and Q&A

The hosts and Liz address various holiday cooking questions, offering practical tips and sharing their expertise.

Question: How to prevent pizzelles from tasting like anise cardboard?
Megan Scott (41:00):
"Toast the anise seeds before adding them to the dough to enhance their flavor. Alternatively, consider making them homemade with a pizzelle iron for fresher taste."

Question: How to cook a 25-pound turkey at 6,000 feet elevation?
Jon Becker (44:46):
"Use an instant-read thermometer to ensure doneness, and cook at a moderate temperature like 325°F to accommodate the altitude and size of the turkey."

Liz Crane (49:42):
"A pickle platter and fizzy ferments like kombucha can add bright flavors and textures to a heavy holiday meal."

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Favorite Recipes from Joy of Cooking

Liz shares her top picks from Joy of Cooking, highlighting seasonal favorites and innovative twists.

Liz Crane (21:24):
"My seasonal favorite is the green tomato chow chow. It's the only true good green tomato recipe I love, and I now use it in place of pimentos for pimento cheese."

Megan Scott (22:27):
"Buttermilk cheddar scallion biscuits with crispy cheddar feet are a hit in my household. They're perfect for egg sandwiches and bring a lovely texture to the table."

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Looking Ahead: Upcoming Dishes and Projects

As the episode nears its end, the hosts discuss what they're excited to cook in the coming weeks, sharing personal projects and inspirations.

Megan Scott (51:07):
"I'm excited to make haluski, a Polish dish of caramelized onions, cabbage, and egg noodles. It's simple, rich, and perfect for the cold weather."

Liz Crane (53:07):
"I'm finishing up a cookbook and testing the Lizzo salad this week. It's a vegan salad with massaged kale, hemp seeds, and a nice vinaigrette."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to share their holiday cooking stories and recipes. They remind everyone to tune in next week for answers to the salmon hotline question and to celebrate the season with delicious food and joyful gatherings.

Megan Scott (54:14):
"Call our hotline at 503-395-8858 to share your holiday recipes, stories, or cooking questions. We love hearing from you!"

Shannon Larson (54:27):
"A big thank you to our fantastic team at the Joy of Creating Production House. Happy holidays, everyone!"

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Notable Quotes

• Shannon Larson (35:25):
  "Cranberry sauce is the unsung hero of the holiday table. It brings everything together with its bright and tangy flavor."

• Liz Crane (08:02):
  "Fermentation is so sensorial. You're learning to trust your senses—smell, sight, and even sound. It's always a surprise."

• Megan Scott (14:13):
  "These icebox cookies have been enjoyed since 1931. They're forgiving and perfect for experimenting with different flavors."

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This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast offers a warm and insightful exploration of holiday culinary traditions, the art of fermentation, and the enduring legacy of Joy of Cooking. Whether you're a seasoned home cook or just beginning your culinary journey, this episode provides valuable tips, inspiring stories, and delicious recipe ideas to enhance your holiday celebrations.

Transcript

[Megan Scott]

Sa we interrupt our regular episodes to provide a special Joy of Cooking holiday episode. If you are tuning in to hear the salmon hotline question, it will be answered in next week's episode. Happy holidays.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan and cranberry sauce enthusiast.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And I set the oven on fire when I was 13.

[Jon Becker]

I'm Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's ancient family run cookbook. Around Christmas time, I like to light things on fire before serving them and I tend to make a lot of sauce. Sauce. Maybe a little too much sauce.

[Shannon Larson]

I did benefit from that too much sauce though.

[Jon Becker]

True. Oh, did you actually try some?

[Shannon Larson]

No, we're gonna cook it. We're gonna use it tonight. We're excited.

[Megan Scott]

What are you doing with it?

[Shannon Larson]

We're gonna just try chicken and rice. So I guess I should say like, he made. What do you, you describe it?

[Jon Becker]

Nong's Khao Man Gai sauce. There are a few recipes floating out there for that sauce. And so I just decided to see if I could, you know, arrive at a nice version of it and then.

[Megan Scott]

Made it like a quart of sauce, which is. It's delicious.

[Jon Becker]

It's a little over a quart. I thought the, the recipe that Nong has on her website is. Might have been scaled down insufficiently from a restaurant recipe.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that happens.

[Jon Becker]

But yeah, still delicious.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. For those who don't know, Nong's Kamun Gai is a very well known Portland restaurant that makes Kauman gai, which is chicken and rice. It's like very simply cooked but like perfectly cooked chicken. And you get this delicious rice that I believe is made with the chicken broth that the chicken is poached in. And then you get like a little bowl of the broth that has some like cooked. It's like a squash or a melon. Squash. Yeah, it's just very. And it comes with this ginger, super gingery sauce for the chicken. It's so good.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. So I made the whole, the whole spread. I think I Went through almost a pound of ginger, like the sauce and everything, and the broth. And I also made another, like, escallion ginger sauce. We had just like gotten back from out of town and I think we caught like, you know, I had some sniffles from the plane ride for some reason, and yeah, it seemed to help.

[Shannon Larson]

It's the best thing to have if you're feeling a little.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Not quite right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I noticed that both of our intros this morning involve setting things on fire.

[Jon Becker]

So we have to do that over again.

[Megan Scott]

No, it's fine. What do you. What are you thinking about setting on fire right now?

[Jon Becker]

Well, you know, I was. I'm kind of looking forward to our holiday trip to Hubers. Hubers is this Portland institution. It's a very, very literally old Portland establishment that serves Spanish coffee, which involves, you know, lighting some rum on fire and then while it's still on fire, pouring some coffee over it and then finally extinguishing the fire with some, you know, really, you know, barely whipped cream. Delicious. We occasionally do that, like Christmas Day morning. Yeah, sometimes we'll try to reproduce that.

[Megan Scott]

It's very. It's just very festive to light things on fire, I feel.

[Shannon Larson]

Maybe your oven.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, the oven thing, that was also. That was also a Christmas time event. When I was like 13, I decided to make croissants from scratch. I had never done it before, but I was very ambitious. So I followed a Martha Stewart recipe, but because I had never made croissants before, I didn't. I didn't think about how, you know, if you're a professional, you shouldn't have this problem, but I was not. So sometimes the butter leaks out a little bit. And then I baked them on basically a cookie sheet. So it didn't have sides, it didn't have a rim around the edge. And so butter started pooling in the bottom of the oven and then caught on fire. And I think it's so funny because at the time my dad was. He was like a volunteer EMT with the local fire department. But he has like, training basically. And he's standing there looking at the fire in the oven, just kind of like frozen, not knowing what to do. And my mom is the one who like jumped into action. Like, we pulled the croissants out, they were actually fine, and we ended up eating them. But the day was saved. It was. Everything was fine. But my dad was the one who just completely froze.

[Shannon Larson]

Your mom was the hero.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, my mom was the hero of the story.

[Jon Becker]

I mean, there's something very nice about just staring at fire.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Jon Becker]

Huh. Beautiful innocence.

[Megan Scott]

But yeah. We just got back from visiting my family in North Carolina, and so I got to eat some of my favorite, like, nostalgic foods. So, like greens, beans, cornbread, chicken and dumplings. And we got to go to Waffle House, which is like, I have to go to Waffle House at least once while we're there.

[Jon Becker]

Just as I remembered it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, pretty much. Except the bacon was really expensive. Yeah, the bacon was so much more expensive than I remember. Like, John got a side of bacon. It was $4 for three really thin pieces of bacon.

[Jon Becker]

It's too much like what we're sounding like.

[Megan Scott]

Old sound. Old bake inflation, I guess. I don't know. So this week, since this is our special holiday episode, we're talking about all things holiday food, all of the things we like to make and eat at the holidays, and we're going to be answering some special holiday related cooking question. But before we get into all that, I wanted to welcome our guest today. Our guest is Liz Crane. Liz, I did not print off your bio. Could you please tell us who you are and a little bit about what you do?

[Liz Crane]

Yeah. I love food and I am a cookbook author. I've written, co authored different cookbooks such as Toro Bravo, the Tasty Cookbook, Fermentor Cookbook Book, Dumplings Equal Love. I don't think I left any out. Food Lovers Guide to Portland. And I also do recipe developing and testing and copywriting. And I'm co founder and organizer of the Portland Fermentation Festival. I'm very proud of that last one.

[Megan Scott]

Stink fest.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

How was the one this past year? We didn't get to go.

[Liz Crane]

It was wonderful. We did a sort of back to basics one. So we didn't have any special guest speaker like in the past where we've had David Zilber or Sandor Katz or Kirsten Shockey. It was just all of the exhibitors and their fermented foods and the different stations that we have that are popular with everyone, but especially with kids. The bacterial petting zoo, you had Heather R. Anderson on a few episodes ago and she helms that station. But it was great. It was hundreds of people and lots of stinky fun.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about the bacterial petting zoo. That sounds really fun.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah, that's one that Claudia Lucero added a couple years ago. So we have jars of all different cultures. So we have water kefir crystals that I brought Kombucha scobees Natto. All these different cultures that you can sort of sniff and stir and look at with a microscope and. And learn about. I think it can be daunting to people when you have to. I mean, like, there are a lot of very simple ferments, like Krauts and just add salt, but when it's, like acquiring a specific cheese culture or working with these organisms, it's kind of nice to check them out, pet them.

[Shannon Larson]

So fun.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I feel like that's. That's part of why I love fermentation projects so much, is because it's very different from any other kind of cooking. You're not really. You know, I feel like with a lot of cooking, it's very step one, step two, step three, step four, and you have time estimates that are pretty reliable. But with fermentation, it's a little bit. It's kind of wild. Like, you never quite know how it's going to go, and it can take longer or less time, depending on the environment. So it's. And I think that is fun, but for someone who's just starting to do it, it's a little intimidating.

[Liz Crane]

I agree. Yeah. And I think it's just so sensorial. So it's just learning. Yeah. Not to be such a rule follower and follow the steps, but trust your sense of smell, your sight, the sound, sometimes with ferments and. Yeah, I agree. But then that's exactly why I love it, because it's that it's always a surprise. And to bring it around to the holidays, it kind of has that holiday feeling of like, ooh, in the morning, like, what's going to be under the tree? Like, is it again, is my, you know, kombucha going to be bubbling? Is it going to be getting more sour, like, every day? They're changing. So. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like you tackle some fermentation projects that are just like, I mean, you're my hero. Because I would never like the time frame involved for some of the things that you do is just so long. And I'm just wondering, like, first of all, where do you store all of them? And also. Yeah. Do you have, like, a favorite or one that you would never do again?

[Liz Crane]

So I store them. I don't have a large home, but I have a utility room in the basement. In those two spots is where most of them. But a lot around my counter, too. I don't do huge batches other than the plum wine that I make every year, which I brought you, the plum wine vinegar from that. That will be like 30 gallons this year is what is what I made. But typically like with a longer ferment like Shoyu or Dobanjang, more like in the realm of one to three year ferment, that'll be like a gallon or at most five gallons. Um, but yeah, I like those really slow, long ferments too. Like with the misos, you're salting and scraping every so often, but it's really simple. You're just making like a bean mash and. And then letting it ferment super slowly. I get that it, it could be intimidating to people, but I think once you like go down that path, it just sort of that accrual of knowledge, like hands on, tactile, like gardening. It doesn't. It just builds. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Well, I'm sure that you know, it also, like, once you get a routine going down of where you're tending to the ferments, do you have like a calendar going?

[Liz Crane]

I have a fermentation notebook and that's really helpful. Yeah, I did. When we were working on the Fermenter Cookbook, which came out this time last year, I had on my fridge a sort of day to day, week to week calendar because there were so many. Like I had dozens of ferments that I was testing. You know, I'm not usually testing things. I am taking notes and you know, it's for future me mostly. But yeah, mostly just that notebook. Like, and I have a garden journal too. Do you all keep kitchen notebooks for like different types of. No.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I have really good intentions and I've started a number of notebooks that then become scattered around. And I also have Note. Like I use the notes app on, on my phone sometimes. And I also use Evernote. So there's like a million. I have too many places where I put things. I need to be a little more organized about that.

[Jon Becker]

I try to keep everything in Evernote, but yeah, Evernote. Yeah. I don't know. There have been some changes in ownership of Evernote, so we also did. Looking for another.

[Megan Scott]

We organized the entire last edition on Evernote, like in. In different. I don't know, we had a whole system and it worked really well for that. But now what that means is we have like 20,000 notes in Evernote. And so it just gets really cumbersome and you're like, I just want to make a quick note. So then end up using just the Notes app and it gets lost.

[Jon Becker]

But yeah, yeah, I feel like we might actually need to like nuke start.

[Liz Crane]

Over, start a new, new system.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I Think so.

[Liz Crane]

I brought my copy of Joy, and I want to show you my note taking. So I put in my end papers. I have my own little index for all my cookbooks. And so if whenever we get to the point where we're talking specifically about recipes from Joy, I have a lot of material that I can. That's like, that's one of my main. I do cook from cookbooks a lot. And so any of the ones that are beloved, you can just open up the back and look at the end paper and see my little handwritten index.

[Megan Scott]

I love that so much. It's so good.

[Liz Crane]

It's. I don't usually like to write in books, but.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

I make an exception for end paper. Indexes. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Need to be written in.

[Liz Crane]

I agree. In some. Some fashion, whether you're using sticky notes or. Yeah. Pencil or however you want to. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

And just for the benefit of listeners, the end paper is just completely covered in text.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

So I like. I write the recipe, and then after that, in parentheses, I have the page number, and then I have notes on, you know, perfect or so tasty or I added this and liked it. Or little variations that. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Nice.

[Liz Crane]

Very helpful.

[Megan Scott]

All right, so this week for our tasting segment, since we're talking about holiday food, I brought in three different kinds of icebox cookies to try. So there is a cranberry ginger with orange glaze. There is a lime cardamom, and a chocolate. What else did I put in that one? Is it just chocolate? Yeah, I think it's just chocolate. I did these yesterday, and I can't remember what I. But basically. So this recipe has been enjoy since 1931. So it's a very old recipe. And for a while, I think in like the 60s or 70s, the name changed to refrigerator cookies because we don't call them iceboxes anymore. But it just doesn't have the same ring to it. So it was changed back to icebox cookies. But they're. I love them so much because you can just use the same dough and make a million different variations, whatever flavor you want. It's really forgiving. And then you have this roll of cookie dough in your fridge that you can just slice and bake whenever you want cookies, or you can put it in your freezer, then have it for whenever. So it's just super fun. You can use them as like sandwich cookies or roll them in nuts or whatever. They're just really fun because you get to play around a lot. And I love. I love playing with recipes. So. Yeah. Let's let's try.

[Liz Crane]

And are most of those. They're kind of more like short, bready, because they're icebox cookies. Yeah. I love that they're crumbly.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I'm gonna try one of the. The ones with the orange glaze.

[Liz Crane]

They're beautiful. I like the way the glaze is striped over.

[Shannon Larson]

Those are delicious. I'm bummed I finished my coffee already because it'd be perfect.

[Liz Crane]

Yes. Do you usually bake a lot of cookies around the holiday time?

[Megan Scott]

I really like to. I haven't this year has been so busy that I just haven't been able to do it, which is kind of a bummer. But yes, I love baking cookies. They're so fun.

[Jon Becker]

Pfeffer Newsen. I think I'm saying that right. Those are some of our favorites to bake.

[Megan Scott]

What are.

[Shannon Larson]

What are those?

[Jon Becker]

Pepper nuts. There's tons of spices in there. Black pepper, nutmeg. I forgot all the.

[Megan Scott]

I think it's like all those spices.

[Jon Becker]

Like all the spices that you have.

[Megan Scott]

Practically, like the dough is right.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And they're better when you make them ahead of time and then age them. So, like, you make them and you roll them in powdered sugar and then like put them in a tiny. For a month. And I mean, you can eat them before that.

[Shannon Larson]

Right.

[Megan Scott]

But they're really, really good as they sit and just. It's like the spices kind of mellow and get more like, integrated with each other. Like. Yeah, they're just delicious.

[Jon Becker]

I don't know. Especially after we, you know, for the 2019 edition, we kind of redeveloped our Lebkuchen recipe. And since then it has become kind of a go to as well.

[Megan Scott]

What's Lovekuchen?

[Jon Becker]

German honey bars. Again, like, heavy on the spice. Again, really good. If you age them for a while, traditionally they. They use a kind of leavener that we just don't. We don't expect people to find.

[Megan Scott]

But Hartshorn.

[Jon Becker]

Yes.

[Megan Scott]

A lot of German cookie recipes or baking recipes, old ones will use like Hartshorn, I think is what it's called, which is. It's a very. I think it is a more volatile leavening agent. Like, you put it in the dough and it will, like, cause it to really bubble up and gives. I think it. It gives things a particular texture that you don't get quite the same from, like baking soda or baking powder.

[Liz Crane]

Can you still get that product?

[Jon Becker]

You can at, like, German specialty stores. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Okay.

[Liz Crane]

I wouldn't know what it is exactly. No, it doesn't.

[Jon Becker]

I can't remember. I Feel like it's ammonia. Like, isn't it?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

There.

[Megan Scott]

I. I can't remember, but. And it's more. Because it's more volatile. It also has a much shorter shelf life. So you really have. You buy it and then you use it right away, and you can't really store it for that long, so it's just kind of finicky. So we don't. We don't call for that in the recipe, but we just, you know, make them with normal ingredients. But, yeah, it's kind of a fun. If you're really into German baking, it probably be a good idea to, like, find some and just see what that is like.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I know.

[Megan Scott]

I love it. That's ammonia.

[Shannon Larson]

We just made ginger gingerbread people the other night.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome.

[Shannon Larson]

We like them crispy. I like them crispy. I really do. Because I like to dip them in, like, Earl Grey tea or coffee, and they're just cute. And each one has, like, a different personality. It was really ridiculous. I was probably really annoying to my husband in the kitchen.

[Megan Scott]

I was like, look at this one.

[Shannon Larson]

It's kicking its leg up. He's like, shut up. I'm trying to watch Northern Exception. Shannon.

[Liz Crane]

That's such a good show. I love Northern Exposure. I'm obsessed with that show.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

So. But I'm not as much of a baker, but I did see a new recipe on the New York Times for a matcha black sesame cookie that I.

[Megan Scott]

Really want to try. I think I got an ad for those.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm like, oh, that sounds delicious. Really, really good. So I do think I'm going to bake a little bit when I'm not working, when I have some time off.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They always have. I feel like their cookie. They always do a bunch of cookies around this time of year. That looks so good. And Washington Post does, too. They always have a really good, like, selection of new cookies. They had one this year that was. They. They look like quilt squares.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh.

[Megan Scott]

Like, they're really. I didn't look at how it's made. It's probably a little. It looks like a lot of work.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

But they're really pretty.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. I remember. Was it last year where when Eric Kim had his go cookies, like, blow up. Those are delicious.

[Megan Scott]

Those are really good. I want to try those still. They're great.

[Shannon Larson]

And they're actually really easy. Good for people like me.

[Megan Scott]

Non bakers.

[Shannon Larson]

A non baker.

[Megan Scott]

I was listening to a podcast as I was baking, and I can't. It's. I need to, like, listen to things I can't just do two things at once sometimes. And so I forgot to put the egg in until I'd already put the flour in. So then I had to crack. I was like, ah, crack the egg into the bowl as it's mixing. Like, hope that's fine. How do they taste?

[Liz Crane]

They're really good.

[Megan Scott]

Good.

[Liz Crane]

I do. I find when I'm cooking and listening to podcasts, I'm constantly doing the rewind, rewind, rewind. And if someone were in the room with me and they heard this situation, they'd think I was absolutely. Maybe, like, really the 15th time again. No, just press pause all the time.

[Megan Scott]

All right, Liz, so to get started, what is your relationship to the Joy of Cooking cookbook? Like, did you grow up with it, or was it something you were introduced to as an adult?

[Liz Crane]

So grew up with it on the shelf. Did not cook from it, really, honestly, until I met you two. But my mother gave all of my college. I went to Vassar College, and when I graduated, she gave all of my apartment mates copy. And I wish I knew which edition of Joy it was. Yeah. I'm sure that at the table, we had lots of Joy of Cooking recipes, but it really was, like, after meeting you two that I just dove in. And I've cooked so many things from it since then.

[Megan Scott]

What are some of your favorites?

[Liz Crane]

My seasonal favorite. So I always make your green tomato chow chow, and that's, like, the only true good green tomato recipe that I love. I do ferment green tomatoes, and I occasionally will do fried green tomatoes. But a lot of the chutneys and other dishes that I've made just are. I don't know. I make. I more have. I've been waiting for this recipe for all my life, and it's so good. So now I use it always in place of pimentos for pimento cheese.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, awesome. That sounds good.

[Liz Crane]

I use it. It's so good. Yeah. And adds that little, like, sweet kick and the spice from it. And I go more red pepper heavy on it than the green bell peppers. And I use it in cold salads. So tuna salads, chicken salads. I love your buttermilk cheddar scallion biscuits with the lacy cheddar on the bottom. Those are probably my boyfriend Jumbo's favorite. We'll make egg sandwiches out of those.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, I love that.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah. But just having the, like, little. I forget how you worded it. So sweet. Like the little feet.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah. Crispy cheese feet.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah. I love the crispy cheddar cheese Feet, they're so good. Probably the most ambitious thing that I made was the Quebecois tortilla. Is that how you say it? And it turned out so well. And I am not much of a baker, but it's such a beautiful, savory holiday time.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. It's really rich and good for cold weather.

[Liz Crane]

Would you just describe it? It's a meat pie. It's a meat pie. Yeah. And ground beef, spice, lots of spices.

[Jon Becker]

We need to revisit that. It's been. I feel like after we developed it. Yeah. That was like, the last time we had it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, probably. It's. There's so many recipes to. To love.

[Liz Crane]

Oh, my gosh. And you added hundreds to the 2019 edition 600. Wow. That's. That's just astounding.

[Megan Scott]

Wild.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

When I think about it, I'm still like, wait, what were we. What were we thinking? Yeah, yeah.

[Jon Becker]

I think after. I want to say that that's not. It's not like, unusual for that many to be added to a new edition. I mean, I feel like there are some exceptions. Irma's additions, like, she was adding a ton. But maybe between like, like the 40s edition and the 50s edition, there might not have been too many new ones, But. But yeah, there's always a lot. A lot of shuffling, A lot of shuffling going on.

[Liz Crane]

It's almost a hundred years.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. We're kind of nibbling at the edges of the centennial edition, so.

[Shannon Larson]

Nibbling at the edges. Well, you know what I like of the cheddar feet?

[Jon Becker]

I think it's because of our beloved cat. Lola was nibbling at these cookies last night.

[Megan Scott]

She did. Oh, my gosh. Are any of your cats bred? Cats? Shannon?

[Shannon Larson]

My cat Morris is a. Anything.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Shannon Larson]

He's eaten rubber bands before.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

But, yeah, he would eat.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Lola likes cookies, apparently. So now we have another thing to hide from her when we make them. Liz, we already talked a little bit about fermentation, but I guess I was just wondering since, like, you, you helped lead the fermentation festival, you've worked on, like, the Fermenter Cookbook, and I know you just love to ferment things in your normal life, but, like, how did you first get into doing that?

[Liz Crane]

It was a pretty common way. So it was. I moved to Portland in 2002 and I had my first backyard home garden, and it was so fruitful. And so I just had a lot of produce all at once that I needed to make use of. And I got Sandor Katz's Wild Fermentation and that just opened up. Opened up the doors to all sorts of. I loved it from the mo. Like, I made sauerkraut, sour pickles. And then it was just. That whole world was opened up to me and. Yeah. And then several years later, I went out to. For the sun magazine. They asked me to go out and interview him in Tennessee. And so I went to the commune where he was then living, and he still lives there close to now, and interviewed him and. And then he came out and we started the festival with him.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I love that so much.

[Liz Crane]

It's. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things in life is food and drink fermentation. Yeah, Consuming food and drink ferments, making them, teaching them, especially with kids.

[Megan Scott]

I love projects that's. They're a little bit magical. Like, you knit.

[Liz Crane]

Very much so. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I also got started with fermentation from Wild Fermentation. I bought that book and then had never done people. Yeah, a lot of people have. But I remember my first. I started with sauerkraut because I think I had seen Sandor Katz demo a sauerkraut thing at the, like, farmer's market or something.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And I made. Well, I. My first batch, I did like a five gallon croc that's a full. I had no sense of, you know, like, I just had no sense of what was normal to ferment. And I thought, oh, well, like, this is a croc. I bought the crock, I think at like a hardware store or something. And it was so cool because like the day after I had mixed the cabbage with the salt, it was super bubbly. And I was like, it's working. It's something happening. It was just so exciting. And then I think I caught the bug. I was like, oh, I could do. I can do kimchi, I could do kombucha. I could do all of these cool things. Yeah, it's very exciting.

[Liz Crane]

That's why. Yeah. And at the festival, we always are all about the Portland Fermentation Festival Festival, getting kids to come. So kids 12 and younger come for free. And we have that bacterial petting zoo that we talked about, but also like, do it yourself ferment station. So like, make something as simple as, like fermented dilly beans or kraut and take home a jar and. Because I think once you, once you make something like that, if you do indeed, like, like those flavors, like you said, you catch that bug and what next?

[Megan Scott]

So what is your, what's your approach to just day to day cooking? Are you a person who Likes to follow recipes or do you kind of go off the cuff more?

[Liz Crane]

I'd say I'm. I'm in the middle. I love cookbooks. I'm. How many cookbooks do you all have, do you think, at home?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Liz Crane]

Your library I was thinking about because I was counting mine again.

[Megan Scott]

A few hundred.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Maybe.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like more than that.

[Liz Crane]

I'm just. Yeah, I think I'm just under 300. So I have a. Yeah. A huge shelf in my kitchen, and then it overflows into my writing studio and into the living room. And so a lot of cookbook cooking also. Just a lot of. Yeah, I've sort of, as a recipe developer and food lover, just have. Developing my own recipes. And I get inspiration from, like, dining out in Portland. We have such a great, you know, culinary culture here. So get loads of ideas from meals out that then I sort of maybe try to recreate or just get inspired to do something similar. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

That's a really fun source of inspiration. Just trying a new thing. Like, we went out to Xiaoye this week and had like this cabbage. It was like a wedge of cabbage that had been charred and then it. It was like really soft. Like braised.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I think it was braised.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. But it was in this puddle of. There were all these seeds and nuts and a ton of fish sauce. It was so good. And now I'm like, I have to figure it out.

[Shannon Larson]

I know. It was amazing.

[Jon Becker]

Some pineapple juice was in there as well.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Very good.

[Liz Crane]

I love them. That couple was at Portland Book Festival. Festival this year.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, cool.

[Liz Crane]

They did a great talk with Rachel Kong, who was my editor of the Toro book, but. And then now as a novelist, but also was lucky peach editor. Oh, and then Christina Cho has that Chinese Enough cookbook. That was great. But I haven't been there since late summer, so I want to get that cabbage dish. That sounds really good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's great.

[Shannon Larson]

I've been thinking about it all weekend.

[Megan Scott]

I know.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. What are some of the cookbooks that you're cooking most out of right now?

[Liz Crane]

Well, Jimbo's out of town at the moment and he does not eat meat. And one of my favorite comfort dishes is the vij. You know, VIJ in Vancouver. Their Indian cookbooks are so. Every recipe is so good, so well tested. And I. My ultimate comfort food is their family chicken curry. So I made that yesterday and I'm always cooking that. The end papers of that the VIJ Cookbook are similar to the Joy cookbook, where it's just pretty much top to bottom filled with tiny scribbles. Of all the dozens of recipes that I've made.

[Jon Becker]

Do you have both of the Vij's cookbooks?

[Liz Crane]

I do and I cook more from the first one. The elegant and inspired. I favor it for numerous reasons, but I do also really like the second one too. And I don't know if they have a third. I have those two.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. I just know about the two. It wouldn't surprise me if they. Yeah, they seem to produce a good cookbook. So.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah, I can see why they wouldn't stop their restaurants. For my two birthdays ago, I think so. I'm 48, so I think it was my 46th. We went to Vancouver and we ate at the. So it's the original, but it's a new original. It's the Vig restaurant, but it's at a new location and Miru was eating there and I. It was so hard not to interrupt her eating that I. So I did. But it was like they were having dessert and we were leaving and I just poked in. I didn't even say who I was. I just said, I love you, thank you for all the delicious food and have a great meal and that's it. But it just felt good to see her face to face and. Yeah. Love their food. That would be one I like. There's so many cookbooks that I cook from a lot. Do you cook from cookbooks a lot?

[Jon Becker]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

We are always flipping through, like, new cookbooks and Yeah, I would say we do follow recipes in them sometimes at, you know, as is. But we like to fuss with.

[Liz Crane]

Exactly.

[Megan Scott]

Recipes.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah. It's a collaboration.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

Yes. I love that. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

But they've done the. The authors have done the testing, so, you know, it's good. And you can kind of like add a little bit of more garlic, which I do in every recipe.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah. I feel like that's one thing that almost always often also add more salt. Yeah, I'm a salty salt lover. Yeah. Spice.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like the relationship between reader and text and author is very specific. Unique is not quite the right word, but it's just. There's such a visceral interplay going on with cookbooks and, you know, what ends up on the table and how people end up improvising or just doing things according to taste. I don't know. It's. It's fascinating. I still have no idea of exactly how to talk about it in a coherent way. So I guess I'll stop.

[Liz Crane]

I think that's quite coherent.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

I think, like, so your tangy bean dip and joy, that's a perfect example of the collaboration between you all and then previous editions and myself. So now I make, when I make it, I use my Lizzy Lils, my oil cured peppers that I make, my plum wine vinegar. I pressure cook it and I make a four quadruple batch. I have all these notes. That's one recipe where I like wrote them in the recipe. Normally I try to keep it to the end paper, but you created this amazing recipe that I now use in a way that's like very much batch cooking. And I freeze them in little portions and because we love beans and it's great for like quesadillas and burritos and, you know, just as a dip as you intended it, but awesome. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

I. I feel like I probably shouldn't admit this, but I was just. I was trying to recreate a Trader Joe's thing.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we were trying to recreate Trader Joe's. Beamed it. Yeah, he really likes it.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And. But yeah, every recipe is kind of a springboard.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I mean, you can follow it as is and that probably learned something. But then how do you work it into your life and make it work with your time constraints or your pantry or whatever? I think that's so fun.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Liz, where can listeners follow you and see what you're up to?

[Liz Crane]

I have a website. It's just my name, L, I, Z, C, R A I, N dot com. And then I think that the social media that I'm on the most is Instagram, and that's Liz Crane pdx.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much.

[Liz Crane]

Of course. Thank you.

[Megan Scott]

So, since this week's topic is holiday recipes, I just wanted to talk for a few minutes about what all of us like to make every year at the holidays. Like, what is the thing that you have to make? Otherwise it's not the same.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, man. I mean, I. I feel like I grew up in the Midwest and I feel like a lot of holiday cooking was very heavy. And so as I got older, I kind of was. I still like the heavy stuff. Like, I have to have mashed potatoes. I love mashed potatoes so much. They're amazing. I put a little horseradish in it to make it a tiny bit spicy. But I also like to balance the table a lot with, like, a nice radicchio salad. And I love cranberry sauce. I know I mentioned it at the beginning of this episode, but I Think cranberry sauce is just, like, the unsung hero of the holiday table. It brings everything together. It's good on every little dish. Like having just a bite of that cranberry sauce with anything, I think it just makes it better. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

I agree. Because, like, the flavors of the holiday table are usually, like, they're really rich, really good, but you need something super tangy to kind of set it off.

[Shannon Larson]

Just need something bright.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

And it's also beautiful.

[Megan Scott]

It's so pretty.

[Shannon Larson]

It's like a jewel on the table.

[Megan Scott]

Do you make. Are you. Do you do, like, a whole berry cranberry sauce?

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I do a whole berry cranberry sauce, and I add a lot of orange in mine, too. And I add a lot of ginger. Coming back to our ginger conversation. So that's my. That's my usual. Go to. I like it bright and a little bit spicy.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like I started adding a little bit of Dijon as well.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, that sounds good.

[Jon Becker]

That might. That might be, like, something I picked up from Cook's Illustrated back in the day.

[Megan Scott]

I love it.

[Jon Becker]

I can't remember exactly where that came from, but. Yeah, just all. All of what you just said, plus, like, just a big dollop of Dijon.

[Shannon Larson]

I love that. That's a great idea.

[Megan Scott]

What about you, Liz? What do you. What do you make every year?

[Liz Crane]

So also, where in the Midwest are you from?

[Shannon Larson]

I'm from Indiana.

[Liz Crane]

Okay. Yeah. I'm from Cincinnati.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh.

[Liz Crane]

So I go home and we have that in common, you and I, John. So I go home for Christmas for one week every year, and it's really, like, the consistently only time that I see my family, which is sad, and we need to work on that. But. But that's once a year. So we have a lot of food traditions, and they're not. They're not common ones. So we have a fermented soda challenge that we do. Really? So we ferment our own soda, and then we go to jungle gyms and get a bunch of jungle gyms as a whole. You could do a whole show on that place. It's the store in Cincinnati that has 80 different countries represented in the store.

[Jon Becker]

It's ridiculous.

[Liz Crane]

Multiple aisles for each country. So like a Tanzania section. Etc. But we go there and we get sodas. Dumplings. We always make dumplings. Garlic cheese grits, casserole. For Christmas Eve, we do Cincinnati chili. We do it buffet style. So good. Yeah. You love that, being in Indiana.

[Shannon Larson]

So good.

[Liz Crane]

It's so good.

[Megan Scott]

I love Indiana.

[Liz Crane]

We do dumplings with the Cincinnati chili. My grandma's wolf eggs. My other grandma's.

[Megan Scott]

Wait, what's the.

[Liz Crane]

There's so many weird little wolf eggs are. To keep it short. They are late. Grandma Amy loved Nero Wolf. He's a character in a detective series by Rex Stout. And he had a Swiss chef who made all sorts of delicious dishes and an egg dish that he made. My grandma made a family recipe for that we make every year that has sweet unsweetened condensed milk and sausage and eggs and anyway, I could go on. We have lots of, lots of silly and fun and time honored traditions.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like I need a cookbook with just.

[Megan Scott]

Your family's holiday. Yeah, exactly.

[Liz Crane]

Kind of. It spans.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

We also do do Christmas dinner. We'll have like a, of some sort of roast and, and we'll have. Yeah. Cranberry sauce and different veggie sides. And how about you all?

[Jon Becker]

I mean, growing up, I feel like if there, if, if there was like a Christmas dinner that year, it was just like Thanksgiving, the sequel. And ever since I entered into adulthood or whatever, I've just been trying to find like the right Christmas. I'm just kind of experimenting, I guess, with different Christmas things. For several years we did roast goose, kind of a steam roasted situation. It's a Julia Childs technique where you, you steam it first and then like in a roasting pan covered with aluminum foil in the oven, you uncover it and it's rendered a lot and then you get it nice and nice and crispy.

[Megan Scott]

Goose is so interesting because it's like steak, almost like it has a red meatness to it.

[Jon Becker]

Oh, and we learned a really good trick from Hank Shaw, who contributed to Joy. He helped us sort out the game chapter and, and also the fish chapter. But anyways, wonderful resource, very knowledgeable and encourages you to just carve off the breast when it's done and then put the rest of the bird back in the oven and.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, because that's like the hard thing about goose or duck too is like the legs need to be cooked, cooked much longer than the breast. You want the breasts to be kind of medium rare and if you do them together, you're going to overcook it. So it's really nice. It's good to just cut them off when they're done and then you don't have to worry about it.

[Shannon Larson]

And just being told it's okay to do that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Helps. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. And you know, the presentation might not be quite as perfect, but, you know, I think no one cares.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. You Just want it to be delicious. Yeah, yeah. That's the most important thing to me. It's not the holidays without a batch of the Becker deluxe eggnog.

[Liz Crane]

I want to make that.

[Megan Scott]

It's very. We just made some yesterday.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, I forgot to bring some. It's egg, right? It's, you know, this morning time breakfast. Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

My brother loves eggnog and he always gets, you know, whatever at United Dairy Farmers, their jug of eggnog in Cincinnati. So I. We have to make yours this time.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, it's worth it.

[Megan Scott]

It's rather. It's rather boozy.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I've heard it's boozy.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Small glasses. Yeah, that's the key. Small glasses and.

[Liz Crane]

And it has to be boozy.

[Jon Becker]

Okay.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Okay, so now we're doing a lightning round of questions. This time we're gonna answer a bunch of holiday related cooking questions. So one of the first ones I got when I asked this was a recommendation for pizzelles that do not taste like anise cardboard.

[Jon Becker]

So no judgment there.

[Megan Scott]

I don't personally have a recommend for store bought pizzelles, but I was thinking the. The ones that I've had that I thought were actually good were homemade. And you can really easily and cheaply buy a little pizzelle iron. Yeah, I think even that company, I think it's dash, they make like mini waffle irons and miniature appliances. They have a pizza iron. So, like, I would recommend making your own. And probably one other thing that occurred to me is toasting the anise seeds would be good. It kind of just gives them a little bit of a richer flavor that I prefer to just the raw. But yeah, I would just say make them DIY fair.

[Liz Crane]

That seems like a fun thing to do, too.

[Megan Scott]

New tradition.

[Jon Becker]

Let's see another question. We got how to get the cookies up off the paper after you cut them out. Mine stick.

[Megan Scott]

Okay, so I'm guessing that it sounds like this person is probably rolling out the dough between sheets of parchment paper and then maybe chilling it and then trying to cut it out and peel them off. So after you roll the dough out between your parchment paper and after you chill it, when you're getting ready to cut them out, you have to peel the parchment paper off both sides. So you peel off the top piece so it's loose, put it back on, flip it over, peel the bottom one off, put it back. Or you don't have to put it back at that point, but you make sure to peel it off both sides, and then you cut them out and they should come off a lot easier. Another thing you can do that we used to do when I was working at a restaurant was we would, we'd roll the dough out, put it on a sheet pan and use our cookie cutter. Cut them out, but then freeze them. Just pop the whole thing into the freezer. And then when you pull it out, you can just break off you. They just kind of break apart and into perfect shape. And then you can throw them right in the oven from frozen and they're less likely to spread and get, you know, malformed in the oven that way too.

[Shannon Larson]

That's smart. What foods do you like to prepare ahead of time to nosh on during those days of long cooking during the holidays? So something that you can kind of think about a couple days in advance maybe. So that way you're not snacking the whole time on what you're putting together.

[Megan Scott]

I was gonna say party mix. I mean that is a snacky, that's a snacky thing. But like you gotta have a tub, a big tub of party mix around for the whole month of December.

[Liz Crane]

We, we have Sylvia's cheese breads for that and they're do so party rye and party pumpernickel. I feel like that's something that's gone out of favor and kind of hard to find. But these are these little cheese breads. It's basically just like take some different cheeses, grate them, add a little mayo, a little minced onion, and then throw that on top of the party breads and broil them. It's more specific than that. We actually have a family recipe for it. Sylvia is our old dear friend. I will share it with you. Oh yeah, but that recipe dumplings, we do too. That's a little more intensive for a lot of people. But if you just have, if you buy the store bought wrappers, skins, whatever you call them, and then you have whatever mix you want, then you can just throw those together quickly.

[Shannon Larson]

That's a great idea.

[Liz Crane]

Or God forbid, more complicated than Chex mix though.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, or God forbid, you know, you just have some store bought dumplings around.

[Liz Crane]

Exactly. No, those are great. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I think we have like four different kinds of store bought dumplings in our freezer right now.

[Liz Crane]

They keep, they freeze so well whether they're homemade or the store bought frozen ones, they just. Yeah, it's like you'd be hard pressed to say that's fresh or that's frozen. Yeah, sort of.

[Megan Scott]

All right, I have a question about cooking a 25 pound turkey at 6000ft. Like how long to cook a 25 pound turkey at 6000ft elevation.

[Liz Crane]

Forever.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, forever.

[Jon Becker]

Until it's done. I mean, yeah, Instant read thermometer. That's, that's.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, you'll want a thermometer because. Yeah, you just want a thermometer anyway. We, we use a Thermapen, but the same company, Thermoworks, also makes a cheaper one that's called a thermopop. And they're, they're really good thermometers. But you're going to want to check for doneness.

[Jon Becker]

There is a fancier thermometer that we acquired fairly recently. I think it's just combustion thermometer, precision thermometer or something. It has like eight sensors in the probe and it can actually measure how fast the heat is penetrating.

[Liz Crane]

Wow.

[Megan Scott]

So it can kind of tell you when, when it's going to be done.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, that's, that's the idea. And you know, I wouldn't super depend on the estimate, but it at least gives you a really good idea of what's going on in there. And you know. Yeah, I, you just want to measure the breast. I think in, in previous editions we were always telling people to take the temperature of the leg, like on the inside, not touching the bone, and it's good to make sure that that part is cooked through. But the breast is, is what you're trying to not overcook.

[Megan Scott]

Right.

[Jon Becker]

But yeah, you're gonna, you're probably gonna have to budget some extra time, especially because it's a 25 pound turkey. And also the altitude is a. Make a difference.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I was going to say probably a more moderate temperature too. So avoiding the temptation to crank up the oven, I would go with something like 325. Maybe, maybe 350.

[Jon Becker]

Well, because it's such a big turkey. Yeah, yeah. And you know, if you really want to speed it up. No, actually you can't spatchcock a 25 pound turkey.

[Megan Scott]

That would be really, you would need like a band saw or something to do that.

[Jon Becker]

Your oven would have to be like, like a full size con, you know, commercial oven in order to, you know, hold a splayed £25.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

So there's really no way to do that.

[Megan Scott]

But yeah, probably like 325. And when I was looking up estimates for how long that might take, it was in the realm of like five to six hours. So definitely budget plenty of time for that. That is a large, large turkey. Godspeed, big bird. It is a big bird.

[Jon Becker]

Well, speaking of turkey breast, how do you save dry turkey well, or gravy. Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

Yes.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, just make a lot of gravy. You can't make too much gravy.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Slice the breast, thin across the grain and be liberal with the gravy. And if possible, serve more dark meat than you would normally.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I would also say, like, if you suspect, you're like, if you haven't cut it up yet, but you suspect it's overcooked, as soon as it comes out of the oven, just go ahead and carve off the breasts and take the legs apart because then it won't rise as much more intense temperature as it normally would.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, that's absolutely true. Even slicing it like, let's say it's at the breast is like threatening to go over 165 and you're like, oh, no. So, yeah, carve it off and slice it and then that way you're just gonna stop the carryover cooking altogether.

[Megan Scott]

Also, someone asked about our favorite way to cook ham for the holidays. Does anyone have thoughts? I am not a big.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm not a ham person either.

[Liz Crane]

I like it. I don't usually cook it, so.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, yeah, well, you know about it. This is a long time ago, but we were living in Tennessee, about a 20 minute drive away from Benton's hams. And people still talk about this holiday ham that we got from them.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, it was so, so good.

[Jon Becker]

Absolutely delicious.

[Megan Scott]

You know, served it at our wedding.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, Holiday ham.

[Jon Becker]

It was a holiday of sorts. But yeah, no, it was smoked, but. And lightly cured. It's not, you know, Benton's is known for their country hams. But yeah, I scored the skin diagonally. I think I used a box cutter. But a. Sharp. Yeah, sharp knife or a box cutter. That is really the hardest part about cooking a ham. But yeah, just a moderate oven until it's cooked through again. Like instant read thermometer is key. And then, yeah, I'm kind of partial to a brown sugar rub at the end. Once it's cooked through or nearing to the point where it's cooked through, like maybe 30 minutes before it's done, you take it out, you crank up the oven to maybe 425 and then rub it all over with. We usually do like a combination of brown sugar and dry mustard cider vinegar just to make kind of a paste. And then you just kind of smear that all over. Maybe it's just having a bunch of honey baked hams as a kid, but I really do enjoy, like clove. And I think it's mace. I think they use mace in that mixture. But yeah, some ground cloves and some ground mace would be fantastic put into that, that rub.

[Shannon Larson]

I have my own question for Liz really quickly.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

As we were saying, I like to lighten up my holiday table a little bit. Do you have any fermented food recommendations that would go with a holiday dinner to just kind of like add a little bit different texture and flavor?

[Liz Crane]

I mean, I just always think a pickle platter, you can never go wrong with a pickle platter. Just. Is that sort of like a bright, like your cranberry sauce? Yeah. Like, brightens up your palette and it gives you that nice crunchy texture. So that. And then I. So I kind of briefly mentioned that we do that soda challenge, my nieces and I, but I think just having like fizzy ferments like water kefir and ginger beers and kombuchas, it's just, it's like such a often heavy meal and it's out usually like drinking and having wine or cocktails if you do partake, take. But having just like delicious, complicated beverages that are fizzy and light and fermented are nice. So we're going to do water kefir. We're going to make some fruited water kefir for that.

[Shannon Larson]

Nice.

[Liz Crane]

But, yeah, pickle platter and fizzy, fizzy drinks, I think. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week, we'll be back to our regular scheduled programming. I believe we're answering a question about salmon. Yes, salmon. All right, well, what is everyone making in the next week that you're looking forward to? I'll go first, since we were talking about cabbage earlier. We have a cabbage in our crisper. And I'm thinking about making haluski one night for dinner.

[Jon Becker]

So good.

[Megan Scott]

It's a Polish dish of basically caramelized onions and cabbage and egg noodles and lots of butter. It's delicious. It's so simple. It's so good. I love. I love, like, beige and brown food. I think it tastes better than anything. So, yeah, cabbage with noodles is what I'm excited about.

[Shannon Larson]

So egg noodles. Yeah, egg noodles are egg noodles more often.

[Liz Crane]

I'm finishing up a cookbook, so I'll be testing the Lizzo salad this week, which is pretty fun. And I can't say too much about the cookbook, but it. The salad has massaged kale hemp Seeds, a nice vinaigrette. It's vegan. She's vegan. That and then I'm gonna go to Edelweiss this week to get all my treats for. It's funny because Cincinnati is a German town and we have German heritage, but I bring home in my suitcase things from Edelweiss German Deli here because their salamis are so good and their Haribo gummy selection is. Is pretty extensive too. So my nieces love those. So they have really unusual ones there. So I'll be making like some kind of. I get their paprika loaf usually, which is like mortadella or bologna, and. And make sandwiches out of that. But final deadline, so just not cooking a lot other than surviving. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

How about you?

[Shannon Larson]

I'm excited to try your chicken and rice sauce that you made, so I'm looking forward to doing that tonight. Just like spending some time in the kitchen and smelling chicken broth and rice cooked together.

[Megan Scott]

So cozy.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I'm just ready for a little bit of a. This is like my last week of work before I have a little time off. So I'm just pushing through. Just gonna push through and then I'll be cooking a lot when I'm not working.

[Jon Becker]

I've been intrigued by a recipe. It's a Genovese ragu recipe, but, yeah, it's. It's a beef ragu. And the cooking medium is 3 pounds of thinly sliced onion.

[Megan Scott]

So there's no liquid.

[Jon Becker]

There's no added liquid. It is just like you. You sweat like some of the. Some of the onion with like a little bit of carrot and celery. Not very much. You just get kind of to get the steamy action going. And then you nestle some chunks of. I think it's chuck roast that spends lots of salt and pepper on that. Then, yeah, you cover it with the rest of the onions and I imagine it's just going to fill up the entire Dutch oven with onion. Should be.

[Megan Scott]

Sounds good. I'm excited for you to make that for me.

[Liz Crane]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. Your house is going to smell amazing.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Liz Crane]

There's a Nigel Slater recipe that's similar to that and tender that I make a beef stew that's so. Just onion heavy. I love. Onions are such beautiful mvp. Oh, my goodness.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Folks that are allergic, complicated. It's like such a tragic food out food allergy. Very sad.

[Megan Scott]

Well, we won't think about that now. Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast before we go. Show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and itunes. Follow us on Instagram at thejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle salmon. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we cannot do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creating Production House. Thank you to Kayleen Veach, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.