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Came back. I wanted to quit many, many times in the first couple years, and I'm very grateful that I didn't. God has blessed this business beyond my wildest dreams, running a business like this. So it's been a bit challenging. 20 to 30% more likely to create conflict in your business. People are two to three times more likely to have those underlying securities that lead to relational strain. Yeah, no kidding. Hello, and welcome to episode 300 of the Kat show podcast. I'm, uh. Whoa, 300. I can't believe it. Also, guys, I don't know where the time goes, because apparently I've been podcasting for eight years. Yeah. Wow. I started a podcast on a whim, and in 2018, just kept going with it. And I think it's so interesting, by the way. So for those of you who might currently have a podcast, maybe a newer podcast, or you're thinking about doing one. Just FYI, I used to do weekly episodes, and then like three years ago, I switched to basically twice a month. And not only has my reach continued to increase year over year, but it's still a great source of revenue for my business. So I don't want you guys who are considering a podcast to think, oh, I can't do it, because I have to do at least an one episode a week or even two episodes a week. No, girl, I do two episodes a month, and it works really well. I think what it really comes down to is having good quality content. And I found that trying to crank out four episodes a month meant my quality was going to go down because I needed some time to let ideas marinate and I needed time to work on the actual client work that resulted in me then coming up with great content for the podcast because it's hard to have content for people if you're not also actively working with them. All right, so today is going to be a little bit more on the personal side of things, because as you saw from the title, it's dear me from 2014. We need to talk. And that is because as of February 12, 2026, I have been in business for 12 years, and that's the longest I've ever had any job. You know, I started my business right out of college, and I just. I would like to say that I never looked back, but I actually did a lot of looking back. I wanted to quit many, many times in the first couple years, and I'm. I'm very grateful that I didn't. God has blessed this business beyond my wildest dreams. I don't know Anybody who's doing a, running a business like this. So it's been a bit challenging figuring out how to run it, how to scale it, and what to do. But guys, if you ask God for wisdom, he will give it to you. I know he has certainly continued giving it to me, which is great because otherwise I would be absolutely floundering. Now, for those of you who do feel like you're floundering a little bit, I thought that, that I should do a look back episode and go through some of the things that I wish I could have told myself if I could time travel back 12 years ago to freshly new to business, Very naive Kate, and, and tell her a few things that would have saved that version of me a lot of angst, a lot of stress, and a lot of time and money too. And really it all has to do with clients, which is not at all ironic because that's also marketing. And you know, as I was preparing for this episode, I am also in the process of preparing for a totally different type of marketing presentation. This is all going to make sense in a second. Let me just break it down for you. So I was asked to speak at a teacher's conference for the private school that my children go to. And at first I was like, oh, I don't know if I can help my market a private school. Like, that's like totally out of my wheelhouse. But then I got to thinking about it and realized that private schools are often considered a luxury. Just like interior design or professional organizing or staging might also be considered a luxury. And the, the decision making process for whether a parent chooses to enroll their children in private school is very similar to whether a individual or a couple decides to hire one of you guys to come into the home and, and do something for, you know, a significant amount of money. Uh, so when I started preparing for that, I realized that I needed to break down marketing into its very simplest form because obviously teachers are very smart, but they have a million other things on their mind. And so many of them, just like a lot of us in the business world, are scared of the word marketing. Like, as soon as you say marketing, people will turn off their brain. I've seen it. I can see it in their eyes. So I wanted to figure out what is the most understandable way to explain marketing. And here's what I came up with. So you guys tell me what you think. But marketing is the relationship that your business has with the public. Okay? Very simple. It's not about. Well, marketing is a strategic campaign that's meant to blah blah, freakin da. No, it's just a relationship. And how you choose to conduct that relationship is up to you. But the interesting thing is if you do no marketing, it is still a relationship, but likely a very poor one. One that's not going to serve you well and certainly not serve your clients well. So as I look back on 12 years in business, the biggest thing, like I said, that stands out to me are the things that I learned from clients, things that I learned about clients, things I learned from bad clients. And there's going to be a lot that I say today you will likely have experienced as a home professional. Or if you're really new to business or thinking about starting a business, consider this your heads up from a big sister who's been there. Yeah, let's just get into it. Okay? So I want to preface this by saying I have the best clients. I do. I consider so many of you to be friends. And when we get on zoom calls, we always end up chatting about something other than work because, I don't know, you guys are just interesting people and you also ask the best questions. You're great conversationalists and smart as heck. I've. I've learned a lot about being a professional and being a business owner from my clients. And also when I say that I pray for you guys, I, I do. I literally pray for you and your business and I ask for God's blessing on you. Even if you don't believe the way I do, it's okay. God can actually still bless you. And I'm grateful for you because like, my business cannot exist without amazing clients, obviously. Right. The other thing I want to say is that working in such an intimate relationship based industry is challenging. It's challenging for me, it's challenging for you. And if you can spot an ill fitting client within the first or second, second interaction, you're going to save yourself a lot of time and money and stress. So I'm going to share with you a list of Red Flag characteristics that I have learned through my own experience and also through the experiences my clients have shared with me. So just because I tell you something today doesn't mean, oh, Kate experienced that. No, I mean, I probably experienced most of them, but some of them are from my clients relaying stories to me about their nightmare clients. We all have them, it's okay. But if we can prevent so many of them, it's even better. Now the interesting part is that Red Flag clients start out so subtly, typically. But here is what I have noticed about the leads who tend to cause the most grief in a business like yours, like mine, that is very relationship friendly, focused. So the first thing is these leads will ask to cut in line. Now, they might ask very politely too, but they asked to cut in line because they think they shouldn't have to wait for a discovery call or, or whatever. Now obviously, if they're just like, hey, I'd love to talk to you sooner if you have time, otherwise, you know, I already booked a call and we'll just keep that date. That's so polite. That shows they're eager to talk with you. But if they're demanding like, hey, I need a sooner appointment time or else that's a problem because there are a lot of other people who are still waiting to talk to you and the entitled attitude they're putting forth is, is a problem. But if they're saying, you know, if you have a cancellation, can you let me know? That's a sign of respect for your time. And even if you can't honor it, or if I can't honor it, I always see it as a green flag because I'm like, oh, they're so sweet and respectful. I wish I could get them in sooner. But the entitled person who demands to be spoken to sooner, who demands to skip ahead in line, they are 20 to 30% more likely to create conflict in your business. And that's based on psychological statistics. And on the other hand, those respectful requests show emotional maturity and self regulation. And obviously those are the type of clients that we all want to work with. All right, the next red flag is that this lead acts like everything is a hurry. They are in such a rush, they have a tight deadline and then they ghost you, which is really just a lack of self awareness. And that volatility also stems from a poor self awareness that's linked to anxiety disorders. And these leads need your compassion, but perhaps not your services. And of course, you have to take each of these on a case by case basis. But if you're brand new to business, just bear in mind that just because your potential client says they're in a rush doesn't mean they actually are. It can just mean they're feeling very anxious that day and therefore they want to do everything in a panicked hurry. That means they're probably very emotional decision makers and it's going to be a volatile ride for you if you work with them. All right, the third red flag is they take weeks to respond to any communication, whether it's a simple email or a proposal. But then when they do respond, they demand instant action. And that really shows that they are poor managers of their time or poor managers of their inbox. Psychologically, this could also mean they have control issues or a scarcity mindset where they fear losing power in the relationship dynamic. You. The last thing you need is a power struggle in your business. Now, interestingly, research on time management in a professional setting shows that people who respond very slowly, consistently have commitment anxiety. That's another thing you do not want in a client. And 40% of people who are displaying that behavior also have an avoidant attachment style. So there could be a whole lot of baggage there. But unless you are a therapist trying to get clients, this probably, probably is not your client just saying probably not. And it can be hard when you're new in business or if you're experiencing a dry spell and you don't have any other leads coming in, but you have these mediocre leads or this really sucky lead that's like, well, I. But I need to take them because I don't have anything else. I promise you, if you say no to that person and continue marketing your business in the right ways, the right clients will come along and you will be so much further ahead than if you had started focusing on and working with that client that you knew was a bad idea from day one. Okay? So just bear it in mind. All right. The other red flag number four is that they send long emails with a list of requirements or demands. This was a tricky one. This was a very tricky one because on one hand, we all like getting lots of information up front from leads. But what I have found is that the people who are serious will send just a very general inquiry and they'll save all of their details, or most of them for the phone call or the video call. The trend that I've noticed with people who, from the, like, the very first interaction with my agency, they send a whole long list of demands. They just tend to be presumptuous and obnoxious. Like, I'm sorry, they do. And I bet you guys have experienced the same thing. If you've never heard of this person, you don't know them from Adam. But all of a sudden this email ends in your inbox with this, you know, page long list of I need this and I need this and I don't like this and this is awful and I want that. And you're like, whoa, I don't even know who you are yet. I don't know if we're a good fit yet. So just hold your horses. But this entitlement does become a problem in a working relationship. And, you know, there was a study done on entitlement in consumer behavior, and it found that presumptuous demands increased his fat assession by 35%. Meaning these people who are presumptuous and entitled are often always unsatisfied. Not because you as a service provider did anything wrong per se. I mean, sure, that could still happen, but because they've just chosen to be unhappy. And when someone has chosen to be unhappy as like their default state, don't expect anything you say or do to change that. Because we can't change people. We don't have that ability. We can only control how we react and maybe whether we react at all. Now, you know, I said they, they send a long list of email, a long email with too much information. Well, the reverse can also be a red flag. So if someone reaches out to you with a list of basic questions that were clearly answered on your website, now this is on you to make sure your website is very clear and informative. People should not have to read every single page of your site before they contact you. I know I certainly wouldn't expect that from anyone because I've got a lot of information, information on my site. But I do find that my best clients are the ones that took time to read the service page about the service they're interested in before reaching out to me. And that shows me they're serious. It shows me that they have a vested interest in their own, in this case, marketing. In your situation, if someone is sending you a list of very basic questions like can I bring my own gc or can I pick out some of the stuff for my house and you do the rest, or can I organize alongside your team or, you know, whatever. If you've already clearly and blatantly addressed those issues on your site and this person is still asking, it's something to keep an eye on. Because it could mean that maybe they just don't like to read, and that's fine. There's a lot of people who don't like to read or have some trouble reading due to other things that are not, you know, strikes against them, or it can mean they just choose not to read, or it can mean they don't want to do any of their own mental work leading up to the call with you. Um, so I would say that's more of a yellow flag, you know, if you can tell that people aren't doing their own due diligence in some fashion, that could be a reason for you to just proceed with caution. All right, so the sixth thing that I do consider to be a yellow or a red flag is people who are super, super excited to work with me. Like this one took me a long time to figure out, but I found that people who are ecstatically happy to start working together will often be just be a super emotional later, often in negative ways, because they are letting their emotions steer the ship. I know that interior designers deal with this specifically because remodel or renovation or a new build, whatever, can be very emotional anyway, but when you add on top of it someone who's already driven completely by their emotions. Oh, I'm so excited to sign your proposal. I'm so excited to get started. Oh, I hate the design plan you gave me. Oh, no, I hate the revision, too. Oh, I think we need to break our contract. Oh, I'm not going to pay you your installment. I don't want to pay that fee. No, we're not like, oh, my goodness. Now, I have heard the some of the worst client horror stories from interior designers dealing with clients who are driven by their emotion. It's awful. I haven't had to deal with it to very much of an extreme. But, designers, you guys are put through the wringer in this, and you have my empathy. All right, the seventh red flag is that your lead doesn't know if they're serious or not. And I'm going to give you an example of this. So if you have someone who reaches out to you and they talk to you on the phone and it all goes really well, and you give them that ballpark estimate of like, okay, well, starting at price for a bathroom is typically always, you know, 50 grand, whatever. And then you send them the proposal, and it's still within the realm of what you told them, so there's really no sticker shock. But then they get your proposal and they're like, yeah, well, I guess I have to budget for this. I'm not really sure if I want to do this. Yeah, they just don't. They're just not serious people. They've wasted your time, they've wasted their own time. And it's. You will notice little signs of that along the way, because if they intended to be serious, they would have already been budgeting for the expense of working with you. They would have been able to make a decision. Unless, of course, they prefaced their initial communication to you with something like, I'm in the research phase right now. Like, if they're being upfront and Honest about it, that's totally different. That's fine. But if they're like, no, I want to get started right away, and I understand this is your price range, and then you give them the price and it's still within that range. And then they're like, I don't know. It's like, okay, we are not serious people here, apparently. All right, Number eight, red flag is that they constantly waver in decision making. This is really just a lack of personal confidence. But it does also mean they'll probably question you as a professional. They'll have a lack of confidence in you. And data from therapy outcomes show that clients who waiver have a 30% lower success rate when they're working with a service provider because they often project their internalized doubt onto you, the professional. So I'm not saying you can't work with people who have a low self confidence. I'm just saying you gotta proceed with caution because you may end up getting in trouble for things that you never did. Okay. Just saying. Number nine, they use subtle threats. Yeah, okay. Few subtle threat examples could be, I could get this cheaper somewhere else. Well, duh, of course you could. You can get something cheaper done anywhere. But business psychology research says this is a pressure strategy. And it shows that this erodes trust in business relationships in 40 to 50% of cases. Huh. Can't imagine why. And it's often tied to Machiavellian traits where individuals use threats to control outcomes. Yikes. No, thank you. Number 10, they demand that you prove yourself. This is hilarious. Okay, because in the age of Google, in the age of the Internet, if you want to get evidence that a service provider is doing a good job, all you have to do is Google them and read their reviews. It's not hard. But if you are on the phone with someone and they're demanding that you prove yourself, well, prove to me that, you know, you really know how to do a kitchen remodel. It's like, well, look at my portfolio. Read my Google reviews. You called me, go, do your research and come back later if you want. I'm not on trial here, you know, at least that's how I'd respond if I were an interior designer. But I think that pretty much everyone in the service based industry has had at least one instance of that where they get on the phone with someone and that person's already defensive. It's very strange. It's very strange. But these distrustful clients with scarcity mindsets, most of the time you can't change who they are. You Can't. There's no magic phrase you can say to win their trust. And if they've already decided upfront not to trust you. And it also shows they're probably not going to have the level of vulnerability needed to have a successful collaboration. So it's just something to keep in mind. Okay, so the 11th red flag is that your lead tells you how important they are. I have a couple stories on this. First of all, I once worked with an in home daycare. Absolutely. She's absolutely wonderful. But she was telling me that she was interviewing a family and the mom was like, well, I'm really important. Well, I'm really well known. And she was like, oh, okay, do you want me to watch your kid or not? She said it was like the most off putting thing she'd ever experienced. And I would agree. You know, I once had a, a phone call with someone who told me they were the most published professional in their industry. I had never heard of this person, not once ever. And I was like, okay, cool. I mean, what. I'm not sure why you would lead with that, but tell me you have an inferiority complex without telling me you have an inferiority complex. Because if you're that important, you won't have to say that you are. You know, studies on inferiority complexes linked to narcissism with data showing that these people are two to three times more likely to have those underlying securities that lead to relational strain. Yeah, no kidding. Needless to say, I did not work with that client. It, it was, it ended up being a horrible situation. You, even before the work started, it was, it was funny. It was awful. It was funny. We've all had those experiences. Okay, bonus red flag number 12. They try to argue with you on the discovery call. I've never understood this, but it's kind of my favorite red flag because this one is so obvious, it's really kind of funny. And if you've ever been on a call with someone who's trying to interview you about, well, should I hire you to do my organizing? Or what's your staging protocol? And you start sharing your process with them and they're like, well, why would you do it that way? Why wouldn't you do it this way? I read you should do it like this. And you can, you're like, well, that's all good. And, well, I just do it this way. And you booked a call with me to get my input, so why argue? And I, I just find it so funny. I think that's only happened maybe two times. I can think of in the all 12 years of being in business. But I do think any one of us would look at that and be like, oh, well, that's clearly a red flag. It's, it's just funny. I've had to be like, you know what? We're not a good fit for you, and that's okay. And I unfortunately don't have anyone to refer you to, but I wish you well. And if anyone knows of an even more eloquent way to handle that, let me know, because I know some of you have experienced this. It's just so funny. I mean, like, this is not an arranged marriage, goofball. You don't have to argue with me on the phone. These people get very combative and it's, it's just so awkward for them that I just have to giggle. But according to Forbes and a lot of other trustworthy sources, because this is all pretty common knowledge. These red flags, all dozen of them, cluster around just two key personality factors, and that is entitlement and insecurity. And all those studies suggest that you can become less successful by 30 to 50% if, if these people are the ones you're working with. So spotting them early is going to help you protect your time, your energy, and help you grow your business. Because your business can quickly turn into something that you strongly dislike if you let red flag clients get into your roster time after time. But what do good clients look like? Well, this is not an exhaustive list, but they are patient and happy to wait. If you're booked out with meetings, they show up on time for every meeting or phone call and they're not distracted during that time. They are prepared. They do their own research. They reviewed any design guides or other materials you sent to them prior to the call. They also never imply that you should give them free advice. And they always preface their requests with please bill me for this or can we set up a consult so that you can help me? Rather than trying to squeeze a consult out of a discovery call. They also respond to communication promptly, like within a few business days, if not the same day, to at least acknowledge that they got your message. So again, these people aren't even a client, but they're showing you who they are and whether they have good communication skills. They also treat your team members really well. Now, it's a common occurrence that the client who's quite full of themselves will be on good behavior with the owner of the business. But when it comes to dealing with the admin or the any lower level people in that business, they're quite rude. Quite rude. That's a them issue. And you know, I've definitely let people go for, let, let clients go, I should say for being chronically rude to my team. Because without my team, how can I run this business? They have to be treated well. And same for you, if your clients are being nasty and rude to your team members, you're not going to keep those team members very long if you don't show that you have their back. So that's important to remember. Also the seventh, I'm just flying through these, the seventh green flag is that this lead trusts your judgment. Not, not blindly, we don't want blind trust, but with well placed confidence. And also they're humble. Even if you're working with a celebrity, even if you're working with a very prestigious lawyer, even if you're working with, you know, anybody who's done anything in life with their list of awards, credentials and press features long enough to fill a book, they don't make any of those part of their identity. And you know, I've got quite a few clients that I would say, oh, this person's my favorite client. No, that person's my favorite client. Some of them don't have a whole lot of press or awards, but they're just amazing people. Some of them have enough press to fill a book, but they never lead with that. That's not how they introduce themselves. They never say, oh, I'm the most published person in my industry. No, I end up finding out about that later and not from them either. So it's just important to work with people who are humble if you want to grow a business that you love working in. The final green flag that I've seen over and over is that the best clients talk like real people. What does that mean? Well, for some reason, and I haven't quite figured out the correlation yet, but nearly every nightmare lead or client has used overly sophisticated language. Almost like they're trying too hard. It's stuffy, it's pretentious. It implies they're trying to compensate for their own feelings of inadequacy. But the clients that are the most successful to work with, that have the best project outcomes are the ones who just talk like regular people, even if they've worked with members of the royal family or they organize homes for celebrities and they have to sign an NDA with every single one because they, that's just what happens. And they can't even showcase that stuff on their website. I cannot tell you how many times I have talked to an organizer or an interior designer who is. Who shares with me privately. Yeah, I, you know, I worked with this member of the British Royal family, and it was funny because I didn't even know he was a member of it until, like, partway into the project. And it's fun because I feel like I can celebrate those wins with these clients because they're just being real about it. Like, whoa. Like, I work with really fancy people that I can't tell anyone about, but I'm going to tell you. Or, you know, I have some people who are like, I work with very famous people. I wish I could tell you their names, but I can't because I signed an NDA and I'm just like, that's okay, I get it. But how frustrating, right? It must be fun to showcase that when you can. But just make sure that you keep the red and the green flags in mind when you're vetting leads. Okay, now the big question. How do you get more green flag clients? How do you get these people? How do you stop attracting the wrong people? Well, I have a few tips for you on that as well. First of all, describe your ideal client on your website. Make an actual list on your homepage, maybe with the heading, our best clients are people who. And then list their attributes. If you're feeling bold, you could also describe your unideal client in a similar but kind and professional fashion. I've done this a few times in the past, and I'll likely do it again because it pays to be a good communicator. In the past, I've said things like, you know, if you're looking for instant turnaround or instant results, you know, within days, we are not a good fit for you. That's not how marketing works. You know, things like that. And the other good thing that you can do to make sure you're attracting the right clients and repelling the wrong ones is to create reasonable and firm boundaries in your business and then make them very clear in all client interactions, especially upfront, like initial interactions, Boundaries are meaningless unless you communicate them well. And they also need to be reasonable. And you have to enforce them. Stick to those boundaries without exception. Anyone who asks for an exception to one of your boundaries is probably not a good fit. You get to set the tone of the relationship, not them. But word of caution, don't let your boundaries become your own little power trip, because it's actually really easy to fall into that pit as a business owner. Okay, so this is not about, oh, you know, we as the business owners are always right and the clients, if, if they cause problems, they're always in the wrong. No, no. But I also don't believe that the customer is always right. Sometimes the customer is just flat out crazy. But it does help to have very reasonable, well communicated boundaries that we stick to in order to protect our businesses and grow it in the way we want them to grow. All right. Another thing to keep in mind is that you can't let your own scarcity mindset or desperation trick you. So as we saw earlier, some of the worst client scenarios come from people who are entitled or have insecurity or a scarcity mindset. And if we as business owners get that mindset, well, then our business is just about doomed. You cannot let your own scarcity mindset or your own desperation trick you into ignoring the red flags, or trick you into compromising your boundaries, or trick you into going outside your scope of work that you've already, you know, sent a proposal for. Because these bad clients will not actually grow your business. In fact, enough of them will cripple your business and burn you out, turning your business into something that you hate. And it will distract you from working with any good clients that might come along. So the other things that you can do is ask your best clients to personally write reviews for your Google listing. This is reputation management at the highest level. So you don't want to mass request Google reviews unless you're confident that any bad leads or clients that you had won't show up too feeling spicy that day. I have definitely sent out a mass request for Google reviews and it turned out really well. I've got some amazing Google reviews out there, but you have to do this with some discernment. So after I sent out my initial mass request just to get some reviews built up in Google, I then just ask people on an individual basis. And I usually do it when they contact me saying, oh my goodness, I just landed a new client from the newsletter you sent, or I just got an incredible lead through the website you designed for me, then I'll say, well, I'm so happy for you, congratulations. Would you mind sharing that in a Google review? And usually they're like, yeah, absolutely. And then they go share that story with all of the gusto and the excitement of, you know, getting a new project themselves. Now the last piece of advice I will leave with you is if you get a slew of ill fitting clients, you need to freeze everything and figure out the common denominator. Did all those ill fitting clients come from the same referral source. Were they all attracted to something in your marketing that shouldn't be there? If so, go fix whatever messaging brought them in or close down the referral pipeline that sent them. I've had to do both of these things before. It can be very awkward to go to a referral partner and say, hey, I'm sorry, but please don't refer clients to me anymore. Like, oh, that, that happened early on in my business. And I swear every single lead that came from this one referral source brought me these angry, stubborn, inflexible leads. And I just could not figure it out until I talked to the, the referral source who is basically presenting my business to them. And I, I felt so guilty because I was like, man, this is free marketing. I shouldn't be ungrateful for it. However, it was being marketed in a way that attracted that type of lead and sent them back to me. And, and it wasn't a good fit. It wasn't a good fit for that client either. So it actually made sense for everyone to shut that down. I've also been guilty of having marketing messaging out there that attracts the wrong type of client. That's my responsibility to fix. It's your responsibility to fix. So just because we get ill fitting clients or bad leads doesn't mean that there's nothing we can do about it. There's actually a lot that we can do about it. So I hope that this little bit of knowledge I've gained over the past 12 years is beneficial to you in some way and keep up the fight. Because I do think that running a business is kind of like riding a bike. When I was a kid, I rode a bike a lot and I lived in a very hilly area, so. So you would pedal hard, pedal hard all the way up these hills. Sometimes I would have to get off my bike and walk up because I just couldn't make it the last few feet. I would get to the top and I would coast as fast as I could down the hill. That is what it feels like running a business. There is a hard uphill climb, there is a fast coast down, and it can be a very emotional journey. But when you can step back and start to notice common denominators, trends, even cyclical things, seasonal things, like, I always know I'm going to be busy at this time, I know I'm going to be slow at that time, it helps to calm down the emotional side of business because especially as female entrepreneurs, like we were made to be very relational, which means we're also emotional. And that's typically not a bad thing. But it can be if we let that call the shots in the business. So it's helpful to just. I learned from people who are a little bit further along in the journey to figure out what worked and especially what didn't work for them. I know there are several people that I've looked up to for a long time in both marketing and business and. And just trying to figure out my own way through all of this. And it's not easy. Like, the past 12 years, I've worked my butt off, but I've also been blessed, as I said, beyond my wildest dreams. So running a business is totally worth it. I work with amazing clients. I am so grateful for each and every one of you and I'm really thankful for all of you who listen to the podcast. I know there are some people I get on the phone with who say they've been listening for years and they finally decided to book a call. And that makes me so happy. It makes me just so happy. So if you are considering marketing your business, if you need help getting unstuck, if you've had marketing on your to do list for a while, you keep saying you're going to do it, but you're just not doing it. Don't be ashamed, don't feel embarrassed. Just come talk to me. You can book a discovery call with me on my website by going to Kate the socialite dot com. All right, guys, until next time, keep your marketing simple, your message clear, and I will talk to you soon.