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- [00:00]
JP Hamill
Foreign.
- [00:09]
Kate
Hey guys, Kate Here it's episode 266. And today on the show I am interviewing JP Hamill of the N2 company. If you've not heard of them, you're going to want to hear this interview. Because for the longest time I have felt, and I still feel that by and large, print, print advertising is a waste of time and money because it is not targeted. You can't track the results. But there is a company out there who's doing it differently. And if you have ever tried to make a go at print advertising and been like, well, this isn't working very well, then yeah, like I said, listen up. Because not only does the N2 company create magazines that have a loyal and engaged readership for neighborhoods like specific affluent neighborhoods, small and large, N2 company can send the right leads from your print ad to your website, allowing the rest of your marketing sales funnel to take over. So long gone are the days of running an ad in a stale magazine that feels impersonal and mass produced. Because now you have the option of bespoke physical magazines, glossy shelter style magazines tailored to the client demographic that you want to reach. And some of my own clients here at the Socialite agency are already using this resource and she Bethany shout out to you is the reason why I decided to interview into a company. So picture this. A homeowner in a high end neighborhood sees your beautiful ad promoting your design, organizing, staging or window treatment services. They like what they see, but because it's in a magazine that's full of stuff about their neighbors and their neighbor's kids and their neighbor's pets and things that are very, very localized. And when they see you in that magazine, it helps them automatically trust you faster. They will go to your website, they'll either contact you right away or they'll opt in for your lead magnet. Cause you better have one of those. And that lets you stay in touch with them via email marketing until they're ready to hire you. You can have a print ad fit seamlessly the missing puzzle piece in a lot of places and in situations. For the rest of your sales funnel, you don't have to rely on social media. You don't have to be posting all the time. You just need to show up where your clients are already looking. Now this is the ideal sales funnel setup. And while your print ad won't be the only way that leads enter your sales funnel, it could become a viable part of your overall marketing strategy. And when you listen to today's interview, you're going to Be able to figure out for yourself whether this is going to suit your business or not. So like I said, my guest today is JP Hamill. He is the Chief Revenue Officer of the N2 company. And in 2009, JP decided that he was done with corporate sales. He wasn't over the self autonomy and financial benefits a sales position offers, but he was over the idea that he had to give up time with his family in order to be successful. And he, he was certainly over the stress and the emotional energy that went into collecting a paycheck from a company that cared more about sales quotas than about their people. Now, any of you that have worked in corporate, you're probably nodding your head right now, like, yeah, I know that feeling. It's not a great feeling. And a lot of us feel gross when it comes to sales. We don't want to sell our services or businesses sell ourselves because it feels like selling our souls and it feels slimy, but it doesn't have to. And that's what JP and I discuss later on in this interview. And now in 2009, JP joined the N2 company. And since then he's had more time with family than he could have imagined otherwise. So he did tell me off air he's got a wife and two daughters. And so while I told him he is one of maybe five men who's ever been on the podcast, he's like, oh, well, you know, I've got a lot of women in my life, like my daughters and my wife. And like, that is awesome. And I hope that his interview stands out because he is one of the few male voices on the show. But it was really cool to hear him say and, and to also read in his LinkedIn bio because that's where I stole this from with his permission, that he prioritizes family time.
- [04:22]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
And as you'll hear him say in.
- [04:23]
Kate
The interview, that's really the, the consensus among a lot of their franchise owners. They're real people, they are business owners, they franchise owners, same thing. And they are not there to make a quick, quick buck. They are there to help their fellow business owners and they are invested in those long term relationships. And when you're interviewing them to see if you should run an ad with them, they're also interviewing you to see if you're a good advertising partner. So that interview goes both ways, which I think is very fair. That happens here at socialite as well. Not everyone is a good fit for everything. So back to jp. So he's had more family time than he could have imagined otherwise. He loves his day to day life more than he has during his tenure at any other position and and today he has the privilege of leading a team of over 800 of the most talented, top earning, inspiring salespeople in the nation. This team has taken N2 to revenues of over a hundred million and to over 900 publications worldwide. And they are certainly not done yet. Magazines like Inc. Entrepreneur and Fortune have recognized N2 for their rapid growth and phenomenal culture. So guys, if you are ready to hear about how print advertising could actually be one of the best things that you do for your business over the next 12, 24, 36 months, then stay right there because I'll be back in a second.
- [05:42]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
This episode of the Kate show is brought to you by Honeybook. I love using Honeybook for my business because it helps create a streamlined workflow when people decide they want to work with me. Because you know, there's one thing to do the right marketing to get the client, there's quite another to impress them all the way through the end of the project. And with Honeybook, my clients are able to review and sign the proposal, make their payment, and then be told what to do next, all in one fell swoop. I've set up automations that remind them when they need to send me certain assets so that their website project can.
- [06:18]
Kate
Go off without a hitch.
- [06:19]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
And if you've ever worked with us, you know that Honeybook kept you on track. It kept us on track and it was really easy to use. If you're interested in using Honeybook for your business, go to honeybook.com and use the code socialite at checkout for 50% off your first year, this episode of the Kate show is brought to you by the Foundation Website. Guys, if you need a new website for your business but you can't afford a fully custom site or you just don't have that much time to spare, you should check out the semi custom website design service from the Socialite Agency for home pros who need more than just a DIY website template. How many times have you purchased a website template only to never use it or get stuck because you don't know how to complete it, you don't know how to connect all the things and well, doesn't that end up being a waste of money?
- [07:12]
Kate
It does.
- [07:13]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
That's why the foundation website exists. If you want a professional to set up your website, handle your on site SEO, optimize your images and write your copy and you want to maintain full control over that website moving forward this website is for you. You'll be able to see what's included and what's not included by heading over to kaitlynsocialite.com and under the services page, click on Semi Custom website design. Every great build begins with a solid foundation and we've made it easy. You'll be able to learn exactly how the process works, why we have a 10, 10 business day turnaround, and why we can keep the fees so darn affordable with no ongoing fees to us whatsoever. The cool thing is, and the thing that a lot of our clients appreciate is that when you get our website, whether it's fully custom or semi custom like this one, we are available to help make updates to your site. We only charge you when you actually need an update made, which means that months, years might go by. You don't have to pay us a dime. But when you're ready for help, we're there to help you. Head over to katthesocialite.com and look under the services tab to get the website your business deserves.
- [08:29]
Kate
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Kate Show. I am here with jp.
- [08:33]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Jp, thanks for being here.
- [08:34]
JP Hamill
Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here with you.
- [08:37]
Kate
Yeah. And like we were talking off air, the the reason that I wanted to have you on the show is because one of my clients shout out to you, Bethany, I know that you watch or listen to the podcast. She told me, hey, I can do print advertising and actually get great clients from it. It actually has trackable roi and that's what we're all about here. Because normally that's not the case when it comes to print advertising. So what I want to know from you, Mr. Chief Revenue Officer of N2 Company, is when did the N2 Company conceptualize and launch the neighborhood magazines that. That have gotten such great results from my client?
- [09:15]
JP Hamill
Yeah, well, thank you. And the first launch of our publication was in, I think the summer of 2004. And we started off, the publications looked very different at the time. They were black and white. They kind of looked more like a church bulletin. They were maybe 20 pages, 25 to 26 pages. And from 2004 we had a few out there. We launched many, maybe another 15, 20, 30 over the next couple of years. But it's really taken off to where this year we have over 800 publications across the country. And over the last 20 years, the publications have gone from that introductory neighborhood newsletter feel. It's still a neighborhood newsletter, but it looks much more like a luxury, glossy, beautiful, beautifully Put Together publication. But 2004 was our first.
- [10:03]
Kate
Okay, okay. So you guys have been around long enough. I mean that's 20 years already. You know, I keep thinking 2004. Oh, that's not that long ago, but it kind of is. Yes. So you've 800 publications. So it's like one publication per neighborhood.
- [10:22]
JP Hamill
That's right, that's right. So each neighborhood has its own dedicated content. Most of the publications are really put together by the residents in the community. So one of the reasons why Bethany from Plymouth Upholstery, I believe the reason she got such great, great feedback from her advertising is because the residents actually read this publication. And the reason they read it is because their neighbors are the ones putting it together. So we have photos submitted from the kids and articles written by kids and moms and dads and vacation photos. But the content, the reason why it's so unique is it's only about that small community. So it might be a small 300 home development or 500 out 500 home enclave or a thousand home gated community or non gated, could be a small township. But all of these communities, they can get content about everything else online. They can get content about their general area, their county, their state, their city, but their little neighborhood. There's no method of communication that's really put in place. And this is kind of a memorialized yearbook each month that goes out to them for free. And it's put together by their neighbors, which is pretty awesome.
- [11:28]
Kate
It is such a cool concept. I don't know why people didn't do it sooner. Maybe they have and they just didn't do it the right way because clearly you guys are doing something right. How are the neighborhoods chosen? Like what are the prerequisites?
- [11:41]
JP Hamill
It has to be funded. So I mean, these are not subscription publications. The residents pay nothing for it. It gets sent to them for free every single month. And it's funded by the advertisers that are in that publication. Now the general rule in advertising, most people spending money in advertising, is they're trying to reach as many people as they can for as little money as they possibly can. They're trying to get the best CPM possible. Our publications are really designed for businesses that are willing to spend that same amount of money and not reach the masses, but reach people that it makes sense for them to spend discretionary advertising dollars to reach because the buying power is so powerful within the community. So generally speaking, there's some of the more higher end neighborhoods in the, in the market. We don't really have a specific hard line drawn on where that is or isn't. It's really dictated by some market research that we do, some demographic research, but really the business owners themselves are the ones that dictate that neighborhood. That neighborhood. And that neighborhood is where I want to spend extra money to be in front of. Because when I win jobs there, not only am I going to get great. Are they going to be great jobs, but I'm going to get great word of mouth from those, which is really how they build their business anyway. So.
- [12:55]
Kate
Yeah, well, that makes sense. And are these communities generally more affluent?
- [13:00]
JP Hamill
Yes. Yes, for sure. Yeah.
- [13:02]
Kate
Yeah. And just because, like all the people listening to this podcast, they're working in the home industry. They are designers, home stagers, when treatment professionals, home organizers, they're looking for that type of client. And to be able to pinpoint an actual neighborhood that they would want to work in is such a game changer. And I would love to know. Now, you kind of already answered this, but let's dive a little deeper. Like, how do we know the actual homeowners read the magazines? Now, you said a lot of it is written by the actual people in the neighborhood. I love the fact that you're letting kids read, write in some stuff and submit pictures and whatever. That's adorable. And who wouldn't want to see that? But is there any sort of feedback that you get from the actual homeowner saying, you know, I love this or I read this or. Or what?
- [13:53]
JP Hamill
Yeah, tons. Tons. And, you know, to your point, these are generally more affluent communities, and in most cases, they're some of the most affluent within a given market, which means the people that live there, aside from general net worth, they're also sought after by a lot of businesses in the area through different methods. So they receive more direct mail, they receive more magazines. They receive more magazines that other people have to subscribe to, but they don't. They just get sent those publications. They're targeted digitally, they're demographically attacked. And really, our publications, we have found, cut through a lot of that noise for a few different reasons. And one is the content is so intimate. And to answer your question, the reason we know it's red is, is we wouldn't have content if it wasn't read. Meaning you don't have a team of editors and writers that are going out there and trying to develop content and hoping, just hoping somebody's gonna pick this thing out of the mailbox and read it. The only people that we have contributing are people that are raising their hand saying, hey, I love this idea. Can I contribute as well? So every month feature a family. Every month we feature a pet. Every month we feature a child. Every month we feature a recipe. Every month we feature an athlete and volunteers. And every publication has a little bit of a different, you know, flavor to their content. But all of that coming from them mostly voluntarily and or referred to us by other residents. I mean, we hear from people all the time that they read it cover to cover. We've had residents say to say to us, can I have the last 12 months of copies? My son just threw them out with recycling and I've been saving them. People keep them on their coffee table. So there's really a culture around it. My anecdotal favorite story, I launched one of these 15 years ago when I started with the company. I've launched two of them. But my first one, I found out four years after I started the publication. I found out at Drop Off Line they had magazine trade. And what that was was when the publications hit homes, like a day or two after publications hit homes, families at Drop Off Line would bring the copies to other families that got featured. So they read the publication, they were done with it. They brought the extra copies to the people that got featured because they knew that the people that got featured would want extra copies to send to Nana and Grandpa in Florida and other relatives across the country. So there's so many anecdotal stories as far as, like data saying that these people read it every single month. We've done surveys in the community, we have events in the community that has all validated that.
- [16:22]
Kate
That's so cool. It's become a commodity. They're trading. That is amazing. It kind of takes the, the best part of social media and puts it into print. I'm actually not a huge fan of social media because there's so much noise and a lot of it's irrelevant noise. But when you have such a localized publication, people care. They're invested. They want to share it, they want to read it. It's much better than clicking like or giving it a thumbs up on Facebook. It's better to just hand it to someone. Yeah. So this, this makes me so happy as a marketer. The home industries especially needs. Now you had said that the release schedule for all these magazines is monthly. How, how big are these publications?
- [17:14]
JP Hamill
It varies. I mean, some of the communities might be on the, on the lighter side, they might be in the 30, you know, between 30 and 40 pages every month. And that could just be a function of the community itself. Is just much smaller. I mean, if it's a 300 home community, there's just not as much going on. We have some communities that are like 2,000 home where there's just a lot more people to feature and then a lot more stuff stories like the soccer games and the softball games and all of that. But our average publication within our Stroll brand. So the publications are all called Stroll. Our average publication is 48 pages, but some of them are as many as 120 pages at the very limit of our production.
- [17:52]
Kate
Okay. Wow.
- [17:52]
JP Hamill
Between. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:55]
Kate
So what does ad space look like in these? Like, how big do the ads get? What sort of options do people have? Because I know that one thing that my clients run into when they try to run print ads is they might get, you know, a 2x4 ad that's crammed in there with everybody else's ad and just gets buried. So I'm curious, how do you guys strategically maneuver that landscape?
- [18:19]
JP Hamill
Yeah, now I feel like I'm getting back into my franchisee mode. I'm going to sell an ad here. Now, the ads go really as small as a quarter page. So that's the smallest we have. That's a.
- [18:29]
Kate
Okay.
- [18:30]
JP Hamill
That's a branding decision. Like, we really want the publications to have, you know, that community feel, but also have an element of class and luxury to it as well. So even an advertiser that has the smallest discretionary advertising budget possible for them to get into the publication at the smallest size, they're still going to stand out on the public in the publication. They could be at a floating quarter page. They could be on a page by themselves with just a whole article. They could be on another page with another advertiser or two at the smallest size. But of course, we have half page ads, third page, full page. We sell the inside covers, the outside cover. We have a very unique. I'm not sure exactly what the partnership that Bethany has that you're aware of as a partner of ours, but one of the most unique partnerships we have is called a sponsorship. So each of those articles I mentioned earlier, the kids, the pets, the families, the homes, Living Spaces as a good example. So we do a home of the month each month or some. Some pubs call it like Living Spaces, where we'll feature the inside of a home and we'll take beautiful photos of their kitchen and their living room. And oftentimes these are homes that are just redone. So we'll do a story. We'll do a story on how they got to the decision of making Those choices. We'll do a story on how the fan where the family moved. Sometimes these are people that just moved in. And we'll offer a sponsorship to that article so a business owner of any kind can buy that quarter page that will always be on that article every single month. And we've had some.
- [19:54]
Kate
Okay.
- [19:55]
JP Hamill
And we've had some even creative business owners take those sponsorships and reach out to the family that does that, that got featured and do a nice like framed article, a framed of the article and handed it to them and say, hey, this is J. I'm JP Hamill from JP Designs. Here's your article. I just wanted to say congratulations on being featured. If there's anything I can do for you. This is my business and here's my card and a $20 frame. They're sponsoring the article. They're building a relationship right out of the gates.
- [20:25]
Kate
Oh, smart. I like the strategy there. And who wouldn't want to receive that? And I like that you're doing the house tours because some people can't wait to show off their new space. And I, I would imagine some people in gated communities don't. The issue that a lot of my interior design clients run into is they will do the most beautiful project for a very wealthy family. And the family will say, well, you can't take pictures, you can't share it. We don't want anything shown anywhere. Do you know, do you guys run into that issue much?
- [20:56]
JP Hamill
It's. I was actually going to mention this earlier. I can't remember what you'd asked about the con. It was about the content. So when I first started in pre sale for my first publication, every business owner that I met with. Now keep in mind, I started in 09. We had, I think, 30 of these publications across the country. There was nothing in the northeast where I live, so there was really no proof of concept in the state of New Jersey or in my area. I had businesses telling me nobody in that neighborhood is going to put pictures of their kids, their vacations, the inside of their homes, even their pets. They're so private. Like, they're not going to want that information anywhere. And what I found is that it was the exact opposite. Now it's not. It wouldn't be the exact opposite if that information was going out to the masses. Like, they wouldn't want their kids information on the public news. They wouldn't want their inside of the public newspaper. But since it's just this community and the best example I can give you of that, Kate, is the Local preschool. So my community had its own preschool. The families had to sign a media waiver every single year that said I want my kids shown if we take photos or I don't want my kids shown. And that was before we ever existed. That was for local newspapers, local news stations. And the majority of the families opted out for having their kids shown on local media. Most of them did. So the superintendent had to go through, you know, different methods to make sure that those pictures were vetted once we launched. I'd say two years into our launch, the superintendent had so many people coming to them saying, why are my kids not in the magazine for my neighborhood? And they said, well, you signed the waiver like no, but for our magazine it's okay, my kids are okay. Now. The waiver actually has a secondary box. I'm okay with my local community publication doing this so.
- [22:36]
Kate
Oh cool.
- [22:37]
JP Hamill
Comfortable with it? Yeah.
- [22:38]
Kate
Yeah. So they don't mind being local celebrities. They just don't want things to get too public. Yeah. Well that's really cool. And it shows also the trust that's built into that publication in that community.
- [22:51]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
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- [26:20]
Kate
Let's talk a little bit about the roi. Obviously I know firsthand from Bethany that she's getting clothes clients from what you guys are doing for her. But what can someone expect? Let's just say they're, they're an established business, but they've never worked with into publications before they sign up. How many months of running an ad does it usually take before they start to see some sort of result? Or is there any data you can give me on that?
- [26:49]
JP Hamill
Yeah, it's really tricky because I mean it's really different for every business. It's different for every business on every ad size. I mean a Quarter page is still good exposure, but certainly if somebody goes in with a full page or inside front cover, they're getting better exposure. You know, not every ad is exactly the same. Natural advertisers have strategies to market their products. So, you know, as far as specific ori what we tell our partners, if I was sitting down with you in a consultation to potentially partner, I would say the one thing that our partners can be 100% sure of is that the readers that they're trying to reach are actually seeing their ad. And we know that beyond the anecdotal stories I shared, we know that that brand is seen because the content wouldn't exist if the residents weren't reading it. And that's what advertising is all about. So that's the hardest part of any job of an advertiser, is how do I get this ad that's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. How do I get that seen by the people I'm trying to reach? So our partners know that the ads are being seen as a result of that. Like your client Bethany, she's getting return on that because her ad's being seen and that messaging is connecting and it's connecting with them well, and she's able to convert that into business. I would say businesses have a range of results that they would report. We've been doing this for 20 years. We have 27,000 clients. Many of them have been clients for 10, 15 years plus. But not every client finds us to be a perfect fit. I mean, they're small neighborhoods, so we're not going to create volume of calls. I would always tell a business owner that if they're partnering with us for two or three years, which is really what our average client works with us in terms, as a term, you know, if they develop one or two relationships in that period of time, it's really the word of mouth. Not only will that pay for itself, by the way, but the word of mouth they're going to get from those two people in very influential and affluent, affluent circles is really what this is about anyway. So I don't know that that probably answers your question as specifically as you might like, but that's, I think, the best I can do.
- [28:46]
Kate
No, I think that's a great answer. And it's, it's funny because I almost hate having to ask you that question, but I know a lot of my listeners want to hear it because people will ask me the same thing about email marketing because, well, how long do I have to do this? How many do I have to send before I get a client. And it's like, well, yeah, I, you know, some people get clients immediately, some people get clients after nine months of consistency. Like there is no hard and fast rule. But to your point, you're saying, okay, look beyond the ad, look at the domino effect the ad will have.
- [29:15]
JP Hamill
That's right.
- [29:16]
Kate
And that's really like as business owners, as CEOs, we have to look at that and say, okay, it's not just about the ad placement. I'm just not just looking at ad spend for this ad. Therefore I need to get X amount of clients from it. It's like, am I being exposed to the right market? Are they going to be talking about me? Yes, they probably will be. Is it worth it? To me, from everything I've seen and everything that you're telling me, the answer would be yes.
- [29:39]
JP Hamill
Yeah. And Kate, you know, I've got a really good example of how like how this is work, how this works most ideally for small business. I had a roofer that partnered with me in my first year. Now he said very adamantly, he never advertised ever. He was in business for 20 plus years only was word of mouth. He worked with builders, high end custom work, beautiful work. I mean I saw his portfolio, beautiful. And he said, jp, I can't advertise anywhere because the phone calls I get are tire kicking calls or they're just standard roofs and those standard roofs, I don't win those jobs because I'm doing like a higher end roof. So my men are paid more, my supplies are more and I always lose those bids anyway. So he wanted to laser target my community. So he partnered with me. I'd say four or five months into the partnership he says, I just got a job in your community, Essex Fells. And he said, I have never gotten this before. He said they found me on Google. And I said, what do you mean you've never gotten that before? He said, I don't even know how they found me on Google. And I said, Mark, what I really believe happened here is they were probably looking for a roofer. They googled roofing. In my community, your name popped up and you'd been in there for five, six months. That was the trigger for them. Like they saw your name, trusted name. So going back to the roi, what I always tell businesses is if I knocked on every single door in that neighborhood and I asked the homeowner, do you know the name of Plymouth upholstery? Like many of them would say yes to that question today, in a year, two years Three years of partnering, the majority of the people in that community would say, oh, I've seen them, I've heard of them. Like, yeah, for sure. I know that.
- [31:12]
Kate
Brand recognition. Yeah, no, it is powerful and I like that we have to just look beyond the ad. And also I do think that a lot of people put too much responsibility on advertising as though that's going to be enough to convert the lead immediately. And a lot of people forget there needs to be an actual sales funnel that follows that ad. For example, like having a beautiful ad in the right placement is one thing, that's huge. But then you also have to have a nice website that represents your company well and doesn't deter people because it's outdated or clunky or doesn't load right or whatever. Like there's a. And then you have to do follow up too. So I also want to remind people listening that it's not like it's some sort of Willy Wonka golden ticket of like I'm going to pay for this ad and then it's going to give me all these clients. And you have to also have the mechanisms set up to see it through. So, so just to be fair there now the, the other thing that I would like to know is if you've got, let's say multiple interior designers who are trying to target a certain neighborhood and they are all advertising with you, how do you get around the competition factor?
- [32:27]
JP Hamill
Yeah, so we actually do have multiple advertisers within each industry. I mean not every industry, but most industries we partner with, we'll have a couple of them. We don't limit the number, but it sort of is a self governing protocol. Like for example, if there's an interior designer that sees our publication and they see that there's three of them already in there, they might say it's already too crowded. But that designer also might say, I know those designers and I'm better than them. Give me a full page and I'm going to out brand them and then maybe we lose them on renewal. So it really is a self, kind of a governing ecosystem. But once within the partnership, you know, we believe it's a good thing for there to be multiples because we know that the residents in our communities, if we just fed one, they're not going to look at that as much as a resource. But the way they view our index of sponsors, we have an index in the front of the publication with every category and every sponsor. So it's not just an ad. So when our new moves into the Community. And they need their floors down, they need a designer, they need their kitchen remodeled. They can see the index. And the presumption is that these people already do work in my neighborhood. So while I might not know the neighbor that recommended them, these people may be residents themselves or they were referred to this publication because they do work in the community already. Once they're in the book, we do move them around so they're not touching each other as much as we can and keep some space. So we don't have literally two side by side. But we do think there's a bit of a food court mentality in the publication that's healthy to have multiples industry.
- [33:56]
Kate
No, I would agree with that. Yeah. I don't think that it's at all an issue if you were to have three home organizers published in the same magazine. Because people need options. And every organizer, every designer is different. They have different specialties, or at least they should. And they have different ways of working with people. And they're not going like, not everyone is their client. And a lot of my clients recognize that. So I like that you're not limiting it to just one of each industry.
- [34:25]
JP Hamill
Yeah, no, I say that. Say that, Kate. We actually used to like 20 years ago, really.
- [34:30]
Kate
Okay.
- [34:31]
JP Hamill
And here's what we found when we did one, we would always get like people from the community saying, I'm a realtor, I'd like to advertise. And if we had spots sold, that was really not a good thing. Now we have residents that own businesses, and quite frankly, a lot of the people that live in our communities do own businesses. So we didn't want to put a limit on it for that reason. But we were not as smart as you and I today when we first started 20 years ago in that. In that topic.
- [34:55]
Kate
I mean, every. Everyone has to start there and then figure it out. I've only been in business for 10 years and I have learned so much. I wish I could go back when I first started in 2014, but it was a rite of passage, you know. So can you give me some details on ad sponsorship? Like what's the contract duration? What's the average investment? Or starting at number? Because I know that after hearing this episode, a lot of people are going to be like, okay, how much do I owe them? What can we do? When can we start this?
- [35:25]
JP Hamill
Yep. Our average client spends $450 a month for a two year term. Now, we do offer 36 months, which many of them take advantage of. They get better rates at 36 months. We also, with the 24 month and the 36 month packages, we'll do a sponsor spotlight where we'll actually feature their business. So beyond them sponsoring like an article, for example, we'll do an article on them. Now we do not have advertorial content throughout our publication. We really don't. It's all resume driven content. But once a month we have a business spotlight where we'll take before and after photos of work that they've done. We'll introduce the owner of the business to the community. Many of the times these small businesses are run as a family business so we can introduce their family to the community. So a nice two page, two page story on their business that comes with a 24 or 36 month partnership. They can do 12 months if they'd like to. I do have some businesses, we do have businesses that, you know, they want to get involved. Maybe they're really hesitant. They don't advertise at all. They want to give this a shot. We've cut that off at 12 months as the minimum because we found from years of doing this that the businesses that would, quote, try it out for less than a year, they would not.
- [36:35]
Kate
Come back and they wouldn't get results either, I bet.
- [36:38]
JP Hamill
Right. It's too short of a term.
- [36:40]
Kate
Right, I agree.
- [36:41]
JP Hamill
It's too short of a term. And it's also a very concentrated community and you know, we want to make sure that their brand is known when those people need that product or service. So minimum of a year, up to three years, average.450amonth.
- [36:53]
Kate
Yep. Okay. No, that, that is very reasonable. And I know that some people get nervous when they're like, oh, but there's a, there's a contract. I've got to stick with them for this long. But it's like anything worth doing is going to take time, effort, commitment, consistency.
- [37:06]
JP Hamill
Right.
- [37:07]
Kate
And it's like, it's like going to the gym. I use that analogy all the time when I'm talking to people about marketing. If you only go for three months, you're not going to lose much weight or gain much muscle. But a whole year of effort pays off whether it's going to the gym or marketing or advertising. So with the average ad spend being at that 450 range, what size ad are they getting?
- [37:32]
JP Hamill
Oh, it's a good question. Yeah, it really does depend a little bit on the size of the publication. The larger distributions. It's going to be a little bit, they're going to get a little bit less for 450 and the smaller publications, they might get even as much as like a full page at that. At that rate. Yeah. So it really depends on the cost of the publication. But our average client, I guess I can answer that question easily. Our average client is. Has a little over a third of a page ad in our publication, an average of 450. But we have some clients, Kate, that spend a little less than even $200 a month and just an introductory quarter page ad for some of our publications. And we have clients that of course, spend thousands of dollars a month that have much larger budgets. But the four is probably somewhere between a third, maybe and a half a page, depending on the publication.
- [38:15]
Kate
Okay. Yeah. It's so helpful to have all those numbers up front because that's going to help a lot of my listeners figure out whether they want to include this as part of their marketing plan. Can you also tell me, are there any other opportunities for exposure in the magazines other than ad placement? I know you said that you'll do like a business spotlight. Are those the two main things?
- [38:36]
JP Hamill
The Spotlight we will do the sponsorship where they can sponsor the article, they get an index in the front. One other thing that I didn't mention, we have two other methods beyond the printed book and a partnership. So one is a very small digital component where we geofence the neighborhood and we feed digital display ads into that community. So our readers are looking at the publications, they put it down on the countertop, they go to their computer and they're surfing the web, they're looking at the news sites and digital banner ads will show up for our partners within that community. And then also we have events that we'll throw throughout the year. Now the events can be as small as like a wine tasting or a restaurant review, which in some cases we'll do monthly, sometimes bimonthly. Could be as large as a community wide block party. And we'll invite our partners to be a part of that in different ways. We can't have all of our partners there for every event. That would be a little challenging. You know, if we invited one of our partners to a restaurant review, they just come and have food, meet the people there, hand out a business card or two. And when those people that live in the community need that product or service, they're going to remember that interaction and they have a more relationship built or they might know somebody that needs that product or service.
- [39:47]
Kate
Yeah. Oh, this is exciting because this is what I have been preaching to my listeners for a long time, is that you have to have boots on the ground, face to face interactions with the people that you want to work with. Because you could have the most beautiful Instagram page. It will not compare to you showing up and showing up in a non salesy way. So going to these events, you know, you don't have to walk up to them with an elevator pitch. You just walk up to them and say hi and ask them questions and give them the business card if it feels appropriate. It's sales doesn't have to be gross and it doesn't have to be pushy. And one thing that. So I read your bio in the intro to this episode, but I want to kind of mention that right now. In your bio that I of course pulled off LinkedIn, you talked about how you were kind of done with sales because it took you away from family, it didn't prioritize the right things, it didn't align with your values. Can you speak to that for a second? Because I was very intrigued about everything you said regarding sales.
- [40:50]
JP Hamill
Yeah, I mean, and look, I do love sales and I'm in a sales role as the chief revenue officer and I had to be in sales as a franchisee. So I didn't really leave sales, I really just left the corporate version of sales. And I worked for some great work for some great companies prior to joining N2 and the Stroll publications. But when I started my franchise with Stroll in 2009, I did it because I wanted to be an entrepreneur. So I think what a lot of your listeners are going to appreciate about their interaction with the people that run these publications is they're like minded people. Like they're, they're, they have to sell their business. I would imagine your listeners have to sell themselves and sell their business, but they're also out there doing it like they're, they're running a business. And to run a business it's hard. There's tons of rewards and there's tons of benefits, both financial and flexibility and we get to write our own ticket. But it's challenging. So our franchisees and what you saw, my LinkedIn profile was me leaving that environment where it was a, you know, corporate sales environment to me really running my own thing as a franchisee. I think that's who you're going to, your, your listeners are going to meet if they decide to reach out and partner with or even investigate a partnership with our publications.
- [42:01]
Kate
Yeah, yeah, that is, that is refreshing because yeah, sales like you can, you could sell more when you're just real with people and not trying to meet a quota. Right and, and just trying to be helpful. And that's where a lot of my clients feel very uncomfortable with advertising and marketing because they're like, I don't know how to sell. I'm like, okay, but do you know how to talk to people? Do you know how to answer questions? Well, like, yeah, yeah, I can do that. Like, okay, that's really what it is. And it's about making yourself available in the places they're already looking, like their community publications, versus trying to jump up and down and get their attention in a place that they're not naturally looking or going. So what is the next step then for someone who wants to figure out, should I do this? Can I talk to someone at N2, what do they do?
- [42:49]
JP Hamill
Yeah, so we would love to have conversations with them. And by the way, one other just element of the sales piece as I give the, the contact is I would imagine your listeners with the product and service that they're delivering, knowing what I know about it, they probably do have to choose their clients in many ways. Right? They have to say, this job is right for me. This job is not right for me. And one of the things that I think is so refreshing about our partnerships with our, our business partners is we do the same thing. Like we'll tell a business owner directly after finding out a little bit more about their business that this is just not the right fit. Like if you're looking to get five new clients in the next six months, this is not the right partnership. If you're looking, if you're looking to generate 10 new businesses over the next three years, like that might happen. But that's not why you need to be partnered with us. So we're very direct about that. We also know that these communities have a certain level of expectation. Like they're, they're, they have good money to spend, they have disposable income, but they also want to make sure they're dealing with like the, the best of the best. So that being said, when reaching out to one of our franchisees, it's a very, it's a mutual interview. Like, you know, you're listening, interviewing us and then the same thing from our franchises. So we've got it set up where they can email advertising2co.com and that's the letter n the number 2 in co.com. if they mention the podcast, we'll give them a free full page ad with any of our partnerships at 122436 as part of the partnership. Just because of your podcast, Kate. So, so advertising2co.com and if a partnership, you know, follows, we'll do a free full page ad with that partnership.
- [44:23]
Kate
Oh, awesome. That's so generous of you guys. Thank you.
- [44:26]
JP Hamill
Absolutely.
- [44:27]
Kate
I'm excited for my clients.
- [44:28]
JP Hamill
Right?
- [44:29]
Kate
Yeah, that's a great opportunity. Okay, so everyone listening? You heard the man. Go email. And I'm going to have the email in the show notes as well as, like spelling out the actual offer so that if people are driving because they often listen to this when they're on the way to a job site, they can look at the show notes later and get it and contact you guys. But jp, thank you for being on the show. This was awesome.
- [44:49]
JP Hamill
Oh, yeah. Thanks for inviting me to do it. Yeah, I appreciate it. And thanks for being so connected to one of our very loyal partners of ours as well. Thanks for supporting her and her business. It's wonderful.
- [44:58]
Kate
Yes, absolutely. She, she's a lot of fun to work with. So. All right, everyone, until next time, keep your marketing simp your message clear and I will talk to you soon.