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Foreign.
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And welcome to episode 286 of the Kate Show. And I am excited for today's conversation because my guest today has such a unique yet realistic and refreshing perspective on selling, especially selling for the home industry. So if you're an interior designer, a window treatment professional, a home stager, an organizer, you might not love the sales process. You might cringe when your clients have sticker shock over your very reasonable quote and you might wonder why they're not replying to your proposals. And you might be wondering, how do I get that resistance spouse on board? How do I avoid sticker shock altogether? Well, today's guest on the podcast will set you on a path to sales that doesn't feel gross. Plus, it actually works. So Kathy Pace is a beacon of growth, empowering window treatment and design professionals to thrive by replacing outdated closing tactics with authentic connections and irresistible client experiences. With decades of her own experience, leading her own award winning design franchise to nationwide sales teams and influencing $450 million in sales, Kathy helps businesses reimagine their sales approach and address client hesitations with ease and confidence. Through her courses, tools and coaching, Kathy guarantees results and shares free resources at her website, Kathy pace.com let her seven day sales challenge guide you through a thriving future in design sales. Now I did sign up for her seven day sales challenge because I was curious and I thought it was fantastic. So if you are interested in that, make sure you stick around to the end of this conversation today because she has a special link just for listeners of this podcast. All right guys, let's get into it. My conversation with Kathy Pace. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Kate Show. I am here with Kathy Pace. Kathy, thank you so much for being on the show today.
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It is my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
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Yes, you know, I've heard such good things about you from my friend and my client, Georgie Schwant. I've had Georgie on my podcast before. Quite a few of my listeners are familiar with her and I know that she has worked with you and attended some of your events at various capacities. So one of the big reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because you have a totally different approach to sales as it relates to the window treatment industry and I would imagine can be applied to other industries within like the home industry as well. So let me just start off with this. Does being salesy and relying on elevator pitches ever actually work? Ever? Because that's everyone, everyone wants, like give me an elevator pitch. How do I sell more? Does it ever work?
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You know who would choose, like me to make sales their specialty? Nobody likes a salesperson. Everybody avoids them at all costs. And no, you're absolutely right. Being salesy and pitching absolutely never ever works. But it's interesting because pretty much everything you ever learn in sales training is the elevator speech and how to close sales and all of that kind of thing. And I have figured out really that selling isn't about sales at all. It is about something I would call the stretch to connect. And it is not how you overcome objections and how you close the deal. Pretty much it's throw out everything you've ever learned about sales. And because unless you do, or until you do, you will always be or can be perceived as being salesy and not even know it. So no those things. Rehearsed pitches without listening. Clients, nobody wants to be sold to. Everyone wants genuine, heartfelt conversations, help with an expert who's empathetic to the situation that they're in and has the solutions for them and can provide them for them without making them feel like they're being sold to.
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Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are so many ways to make a client feel seen and heard and make them feel like they are the only client on the face of the earth for you right now. And they might be, who knows, they don't need to know that. But to make that person feel special and to feel heard. So can you kind of walk my audience through? Like what does the old fashioned sales process look like? Because like you just said, some people are being salesy in a very off putting way and they don't even realize it. So, so I want people to understand right out of the gate what's the old fashioned sales method and what parts.
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Don'T work well, you know, right off the bat, I would say it's never one size fits all. The client in front of you is the most important client in front of you. What is a winning, I'll say signature selling experience for one designer may not be exactly the same for another designer because. Because we all have different strengths. We all approach things and people and projects differently. So we have to lead into our own strengths and then meet our clients where they're at. And so I would say anything that of course a no brainer is no hard sell, no, you know, half nelson close technique or anything like that. Nothing that is overtly price focused. And it's easy to get into that because sometimes clients will say, for instance, in window treatments, I want you to come out and give me a quote for roller shades. Well, that's very Focused on price. And so it is up to a pro to move away from that old school manner of going in and saying, okay, I'm going to, you know, tell me what you want, I'm going to work it up. I'm going to give you a quote and then you're probably going to compare that quote and then we're going to go through that whole back and forth process. So anything high pressure, anything generic, anything that overly emphasizes price, anything I. I call old school or traditional sales, I'm going to call it Bro Marketing. It was created by men for probably 50 years ago. Nothing has really changed. Nothing has been innovative there. Is there anything innovative that's been brought to the sales training space? I don't think so. And in reality, who knew that innovation would actually mean not high techie. It would mean high tech, personalized, caring, open, collaborative communication. And those are not words that people generally associate with sales.
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Right.
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Anyway. Shape or form.
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Yeah. And, you know, just hearing you talk about all the, the things that people should stop doing, the things they should be doing, it reminds me of when I was going through the process of getting window treatments for all the finished spaces in my home. And I had Georgie of incredible windows shout out to her, come out. She's a Hunter Douglas dealer and she did not try to sell me on the most expensive thing that Hunter Douglas offered. She looked at my space, she looked at my concerns. I already had custom window treatments, but they all had cords and I have little kids. And I was concerned. And she said, yep, let's do this instead. This is going to be more energy efficient. You have huge windows, like in our great room. They're just really big. So she's like, okay, we're going to do this. And I suggest these be motorized. But these other ones, they don't need to be motorized. You can have a wand, you can have a pull down. Like, she tailored it so much to exactly how we used each space. And it clearly. And I also, like, I know her personally, but it was just like, not about how big can I make this sale. It was always about how well can I take care of this client and ease her concerns. And even when it came down to color, because the color options are just. There's too many. There's way too many. She did not show me all the color options. She was like, here's a few. She, she had me figured out at that point. Here's a few. And here's a type of window treatment that I recommend. And she gave me just this narrow little field of view. And that made it so much easier. And if someone else had come in and said, here's all the options in the world, here's the most expensive, prettiest thing out there, I would have been overwhelmed and felt sold to and I would therefore would not have. They wouldn't have sold anything that day, basically. So I agree with you 100%.
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Yeah. TMI. Too much information leads to hesitation. It does not lead to yes. And your clients, all clients. You as when you are a client, you deserve a design experience that is curated for you, that meets your style, your functional needs, your taste and oh, by the way, your budget. And the money is the elephant in the room. You mentioned money. You said, Georgie didn't try to sell me the most expensive thing. Designers walk a tightrope because they're really trying to find the best thing that will solve the problem in the best way for the client. Maybe raise their sights a little bit on what's possible. You might not have known that you didn't have to have everything motorized or even the what motor. I don't know what you knew. Yeah, the time started, but she had to curate what she showed you to really fit your unique situation. And it's challenging when your business relies on sales to make the world go round all of ours. That's just the way that it goes. That clients don't feel like they're being sold and that they feel like they're being guided or led to be able to make the right decision for themselves confidently because of your guidance. That's what selling is. It's, it's, it's creating a collaborative enough relationship where clients will let down the resistance shield. Everybody has one towards a salesperson. They do. And your clients know you're selling something. No matter how non salesy you think you are, your clients know you're selling something. Actually, if you're a designer, you have two strikes against you. The word designer is intimidating and sales is resistance shield right away. So you've got two things before you even walk in the door going against you. And it's so important that you're able to kind of get the shield, lower the resistance, create a receptive client who is open, who trusts you enough. I call it a low resistance, high trust sales relationship. Sales collaborative relationship. Because that's what needs to happen in order for somebody to be able to decide to buy from you. They have to trust you. And we don't trust salespeople. There was a study I read a little while back. I don't need a Study to know this, only 3% of people think of salespeople as trustworthy. Trust is very low. Sales is very low on the trust scale. Yet it is everything when it comes to buying. So we have to be able to get ourselves out of this selling mode and help our client move into comfortably, excitedly, happily buying mode in the process that we walk our client through. And, you know, everybody has a process, whether you have it written down and outlined and in a binder on the shelf that says, you know, sales playbook or whatever, those old school things.
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Fancy.
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Everybody has a process. Your process might be, I do it different every time. Your process might be I do it the way I like to do it. But what we maybe don't always realize is that there are milestones that every client has to go through in order to be able to say yes. And a real design sales pro can lead the client through that process, through that experience. I don't even like to call it a process because that sounds too scripted. And the same as everybody else. They need to lead the client through the buying experience in a way that helps them where they don't have to ask for the sale. The client is so excited, in the end, they ask to buy from you. That's what we want.
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Yeah. There's so much psychology involved behind this, and I think that the old sales method is easy. It's easier to just have this script that you regurgitate. But as our culture continues to change, like you said, that hasn't been updated in half a century. It just doesn't work anymore. And also the people who have to do that pitch feel disgusting. And that's no way to go about running a business. So what you were getting at sounds like it's the signature sign sales experience rather than a process. It's the experience, yes. Can you break that down? Because I'm so curious to know what that experience is.
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Okay, well, we know the goal of it is low resistance, high trust. Because in order for clients to experience transformation to. They called you because there's something about their home that doesn't feel as comfortable or inviting. Something's wrong. Something is wrong. They've called you there because something is wrong and they have a project. And so it really is up to us to develop a selling experience that includes deep listening. It includes the ability for the client to be. I call it an I get you experience. You know, where the outcome is, that clients feel cared about, that the solutions that you provide are unique and personalized specifically for them, because that's what equals value. That's what gets you out of the whole price comparison thing. So I would say we have to be kind of careful. We have to elevate our language, be careful that what we're saying is, or what we're doing is guiding rather than selling and, and have a process that feels natural. So yes, there absolutely is a roadmap to get you through that process, but it is planned, not necessarily canned, I guess. And in it, it is really all about mastering the art. And there absolutely is an art to it, the art of what I'm going to call the stretch to connect. Most people go way too fast into the design and the design project and what do you need and how can I help? And all of those things. And you're going to absolutely talk about that design project. But while you're talking about the design project, a true pro is really listening between the line. There's project things and there's personal things things. And if you're a real pro who sells from your heart, you are listening between the lines of what's said and what isn't said and observing. You're invited into a client's home. It's the backstage of where their life plays out. I mean, there's no better place for you to really, it's a, it's a privilege. And there's no better place for you to learn about what is important to that client, about what that client values, about what their hopes and dreams are for their life and their whole, their family and their home. It's all right there for you if you but care enough to look and notice and listen and observe and connect at that level. And once you do that, selling becomes not necessary. It really becomes not necessary. And I would really say, though, the challenge is that I think that every single person listening right now, today, they don't think they're salesy. They think and try and really want to provide that kind of experience for their client. But. But what's probably happening is more often than not, they come to the end of the design appointment or the selling experience and the client hesitates. They don't say yes. They have to think about it. They got to talk to somebody else. They have to. They come up with all kinds of reasons why. They don't just say, okay, let's get started, let's do this. And that's how we know by the results, that's how we know that there's something we're not doing that we could be doing to lead that client to a better place at the end of Our appointments, because we have to help them say yes. Because until they say yes, your. Those window treatments are never going to be up in the window. They're never going to be solving the problem. Their closets are never going to be organized. Their kitchen and bath is never going to be an efficient, beautiful place to spend time in. None of those things are going to happen until the client actually becomes confident enough to say, yes, I want to buy it.
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Yeah. You know, and it took a few years of even running my own marketing agency before I really started to dig into. When a client contacts an interior designer and they say I need a kitchen remodel, it's not really the kitchen remodel they're after. They are after the way they will feel when they have this kitchen remodeled. So that's why with marketing, which, you know, it. Sales is part of marketing, like that whole experience of trying to figure out what does your client want to feel. Sell the feeling, not the service. And that's hard because our brains always want to flip into, oh, selling a service. They said they need a kitchen remodel. When really, let's just say the designer gets there, realizes the homeowner doesn't want to change the footprint of her kitchen or the size of it. She likes all that. But turns out she can't stand the cabinet color. She hates the countertop. She wants a backsplash. She, you know, she wants a new kitchen sink. She needs some new appliances. Well, now we're not really looking at it remodel. We're looking at a refresh. And Right. You know, someone could still go in there and try to sell her on a remodel, but that would be salesy. But then looking at it and saying, well, here is what you. You actually need based on what you've told me you don't like. And like you said, reading between the lines of, okay, well, you know, she doesn't actually need what she thinks she needs. And I think part of our job as professionals is to help people realize, here's what you do need based on all these different aspects of you and your life and your space. And that requires, like you said, so much listening.
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It sure does. I write a column in Window Fashion Vision magazine. I've been doing it for about three years. And the name of my. The editorial content that I provide is called transformations. And essentially the. If I could sum it up, it's stop selling products, start selling transformations. Because as you said, people don't buy the thing. They buy the feeling that comes from owning the thing. We Have Simon Sinek to thank us. To thank for that. Yeah, yeah. And so when you can, it's so easy to get, I'll say, bogged down in all the pesky details. Because you as the professional, you've got to have all those pesky details, all those ducks lined up in a row in order to make sure that what you order comes back custom made to the way that it's supposed to come back. But the pesky details are not what get people up off the sofa and excited to purchase. The vision, the vivid word picture that you paint about how the room will be transformed, how their life will be transformed, how their home will become the haven where everyone wants to be and everyone wants to gather and they'll feel comfortable finally in their favorite chair in the bay window in front of the hot window, reading a book. Those kinds of transformations, that's what people buy. And when we get good at selling that and there's method there, there are things we have to do in order for that to take place. You know, most people have. If you've taken sales training in the past, I would bet. And if you do have a sales process in a manual somewhere or a book you've read about selling, there's probably a chapter or something related to it that go, that's titled Closing the Sale. And you know, we've already established nobody wants to be closed. No, nobody likes that. When we feel like somebody's trying to close us, we run. So you probably have learned that there are certain things that you do. You got to review all the details and you got to make sure that everything is right. And then you get to the end and then you say, so what do you think? Or are you ready to get started? Or whatever it is that line is. And I would say it's more about the client has to cross a bridge. They're over on this side with their problem and across the water and the swinging, you know, kind of scary to go over bridge across the way over there is paradise, the way the room is going to feel and be once your solutions are in there. And we have to inspire that client to like, we can't cross the bridge for them. They have to cross the bridge. And so we have to inspire them to really move, to act, to take that step to go. But we, but do it in such a way that's empathetic. And I didn't make this way of thinking up. You may know of Donald Miller and Storybrand, he says, light a fire on this side of the bridge and then paint paradise on that side of the bridge. Like Yoda had to say to Luke, you know, in order for the transformation to defeat Darth Vader, you gotta. You gotta act. You have to go do it. But I gotta make sure that my client acts, I guess is the bottom line. And going through a closing process doesn't really ensure that. Inspiring the client to buy using your influence, I call it using your influence for good. Influencing the client, inspiring them to cross that bridge to get over to paradise. Half of that is your ability to paint the picture of what that paradise will be like. That's what is selling the transformation.
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Yes. Yes. And that's what people should be doing in client appointments, in blog posts, in newsletters, on their website, like regular old website copywriting, selling that transformation, selling them on the emotion. Because even the most hardcore businessman, let's say an attorney in Washington, D.C. he still makes decisions based on emotion. He may not look like it, but he does. And once we tap into that. For so long.
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Sorry, we have been taught for so long that business is rational, that people make decisions, you know, give them enough rational facts, give them enough data, and they will make the right decision. And science and brain imagery and psychology, finally we're able to actually get inside people's brains and figure out and see what lights them up. And what lights them up isn't data and facts. What lights them up is the limbic part of the brain, which, by the way, is the place where trust is created. So that what. What you're talking about right now is transitioning from, yes, of course, we make decisions in our business based on data. We make decisions in our business based on facts. But. Or. And I should say, and we also make decisions in our business based on what we want our business to provide for us, how we want to feel as business owners. The. We started our business because of the feeling that would come from owning the thing, our business. So. And clients are no different than we are. It's just what makes the world go around.
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You know, the. The most difficult part from what I've seen, whether in my own business or with a lot of the designers I work with, the most difficult part of the sales process is when they get to the end of a presentation and they have to give numbers and.
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Yes.
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What advice do you have for them around that?
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Okay. Yes. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna create a vivid word picture here for a minute. Your listeners are meeting with their clients, and standing between them and their client is what I'm gonna call the proverbial elephant in the room. Like literally, you could picture a giant elephant's behind between you and the client, because that is what is between you and the client. And what does the saying go, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? But because we're so afraid to talk about money, because our culture is such that we have taught our children each other, we don't talk. Money is just not something we are open about. Money is something we're guarded and closed than ever about. And so until you learn a language and an approach to conversations with your client around money that lead to openness instead of guarded, closed down clients, you will always have that giant elephants behind between you and the goal that you want, the goal that your client wants more importantly. And you eat an elephant one bite at a time, meaning you take little tiny bite sized pieces of the money conversation throughout the entire sailing experience. And what most people do because they're nervous, they bring it up a little bit upfront, you know, have you considered how much you want to invest? Well, that doesn't go over very big, very well because the client doesn't really know how much it's going to cost. They, they don't know how to answer that question without frankly sounding stupid or worrying that they'll sound stupid. They're worried if they say too much, you're going to take every dime. And if they don't say enough, you're going to laugh at them. They are not equipped to answer that question. Well, right up front, it's our job to equip them, to help them know how to answer that question. And so what we generally do is we introduce it a little bit up front and then it doesn't go very well. And so we avoid that. And then we get to the end of the appointment and we turn the tablet around with our best smile. We say, you know, all this for only, and we tell them how much it's going to cost. And what we're, in essence we're doing is we're asking them to swallow that entire elephant in one gulp.
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And great point.
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That doesn't go well. That never goes well. It would not go well. I need to remodel my swimming pool. It's 50 years old. It needs work. I don't really know how. I don't know how much it's going to cost. I'm afraid it's going to cost a lot. So if somebody asks me what do I want, you know, have I considered the investment I want to make? I'm not equipped to answer it yet. What I would love, because I teach this is I would love if somebody would come out and say to me, well, there's three ways we can approach this project. You could do, let's call the first one simple beautiful function. We can replace what you have and do it in a simple, beautiful way. It's the least expensive way to go about it. And to do that for your pool, it's probably between this and this. And the next way we can do it is we'll call it a little more decorative and personalized. Maybe you want a really special tile or maybe you want to add a water feature or maybe you want to do something that would make your pool really stand out. And maybe you want to do make a statement. You want to, you want to slide and you want all. And they should. I want them to be able to give me budget ranges for all three of those approaches because only until they've done that am I really equipped to make a good decision about what's right for me.
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Yes.
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And getting good at doing that. Nobody teaches that except me. I do, by the way.
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I'm so glad you do because this is just like so refreshing to hear.
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Money is the elephant in the room. It just is. And until you can talk about it, take it in bite sized pieces in a way that the client understands and will respond to and doesn't cause them to put their guard up. You are always going to struggle. You are always going to be on the sales roller coaster and you won't know what will. Some months, you know, you'll have great people just say yes and some months they don't. It's something everybody has to learn in order to really help clients, to really be a pro at what you offer.
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Oh, your example of the pool and you know, you can remodel it this way or you can remodel it this way. That's a little more expensive. But here's what you get out of it. To me, the huge benefit of doing it that way is you are keeping the client feeling like they are in control rather than just giving them a number at the end and expecting them to swallow it. Saying upfront, you have options and everybody loves to have options. Everyone loves to think they're making their own decisions. You know, I use the same tactic with my 2 year old son who he can make some of his own decisions, but sometimes I say you can do A or you can do B. There is no C. So you pick A or B. Either way is fine with me. So he feels like he's choosing. And I think that like adults are no different in a way, 100%.
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And you do something else when you use an approach like that, it is that you, in essence you, you don't know what your client is comparing your price to in window treatments. Let's say you don't know whether they're comparing your sliding door drapery in the bedroom where they need, you know, light control and they want blackout or block out room darkening drapery. You don't know whether they're comparing that to off the rack, what they saw at Walmart or in the Pottery Barn catalog or you have no idea. And so when you frame, let's say, or we the salesy thing would be, you could call it price conditioning. I call it being helpful to your client. It is helping them see it's this or this or this. And they may not have ever even thought or known that you, that the pool could have flamethrowers. They may not have ever. But when they start to compare, what does simple, beautiful, functional pool remodel cost compared to flame throwing and, and you know, water dancing? It doesn't sound quite so bad. So that is, you don't. It's a methodology, and I'll use that word, it is a helpful methodology that really educates your clients so that they are able to make an informed, good decision for themselves.
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Yes. Yeah. It's so refreshing to have it presented that way because otherwise that homeowner is listening to this presentation. Here's why you should do this and this. But they're holding their breath because they know at the very end there's going to be a number thrown at them and they're bracing themselves for how big that number is going to be. So like you said, the resistance. And then, and then to make matters more complicated, this person probably has a spouse who may not be as on board with this and may have their guard up even if the one you're talking to does not. So do you have any advice around how to handle that?
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A
I do, I do. I'm going to say even when the spouse or the other decision maker, whoever that other it might be, my sister in law is a designer in another state and I never make decisions without, you know, running it by yes, it doesn't necessarily have to be money related, doesn't have to be. But whenever there's anybody else that would want to have input in this, you got to bring them in. And I do not mean it is super salesy to say, oh, by the way, I won't come to this Appointment, unless both decision makers are present. That is super salesy. So. But if you do know that your client has a spouse in those bite sized ways all throughout the appointment, I'm going to be asking that client over and over again, what do you think Frank will think about this design? What do you think Frank will think about this material? What do you think Frank will think about these three approaches? What do you think Frank will think now that you've said, oh, we think the mid approach within this budget range is right for your project? What do you think Frank will think about that? Because the more that I bring that person into the conversation throughout the whole appointment, it makes it a lot more difficult for the client to say, okay, I'll talk to Frank and get back to you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And they may still need to talk to Frank. But we have considered Frank at every point along that design project. Everything that we've done, we have considered him. And isn't that what people want? They want, they want to feel like their opinion matters, like they're being considered. No, I don't think anybody, no husband wants to, you know, they want their wife to be. If we want our spouse, we want the people who live under the roof with us to be happy with the things that are in our home. That's just part of being in a good partnership with one another.
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B
And I like how instead of finding some way around the money conversation or having fancy language for it, or finding some way to run away from the resistant spouse, you just are like, nope, we're leaning right into that. That thing that makes you nervous. We're stepping right into it.
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Yeah.
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Up to our eyeballs.
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Ask the question, the answer to which you don't want to hear because only then are we really having an authentic, genuine, heartfelt conversation.
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Yeah.
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And that's what people want. We're over transactions, we're over them. We. This is just not the world we live in anymore. And sales needs to catch up. I made it my personal life mission. I want to forever change the way buyers and sellers experience purchasing, the way that we experience transforming our home in one way or another. Yeah, that's what I get up every day and do. It's what I, I have, truthfully, it's what I did myself for 15 years with my own clients and my own businesses. And then it's what I helped other people do for another 15 years working for some pretty large names. You know, you mentioned Hunter, Douglas, Smith and some very large design industry businesses. I directed and led and was the sales director for those businesses. And used many of these methods to build their business. I want to help people who were like me when I first started out, when I was going into clients homes, when I was selling, when I was trying to build my own design business. I want to help them be more successful. And so I've taken everything that I've learned in doing it myself and doing it, you know, for other larger businesses and curated it down to this way that like, exactly like I did with Georgie. Georgie's been selling for a long time. Georgie is very successful. Georgie was in modern sales mastery when she reached her goal of $1 million in window treatment sales. I mean that is a milestone. That's pretty incredible. Huge. It's huge. And so I loved being able to celebrate with her. And what I really loved is that she, even though she sold a lot and even though she'd been in business for a long time and even though she was very successful, you bought from her. So she must be good. She still was open and curious enough to say, maybe I could do this better. Maybe there, maybe I, maybe there's a different way of approaching this that I haven't thought it through. And I think curiosity is the superpower of success.
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Amen. Yes.
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A
Right, Right.
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So I have a feeling that I've got quite a few listeners who are like, I need more, Kathy, give me more. So you have a lot of resources for people in the home industry who are trying to ditch the old sales method and really create that signature selling experience. So who do you work with? How do you work with them? Tell me all the things.
- [43:34]
A
All the things. Okay. I work with, I can put a large umbrella over it. Design sales professionals, people who go into clients homes and sell things like window treatments, closet systems, kitchen and bath remodels. I lead a lot with window treatments because that is early on when I had my, my own design design business. I learned people understand window treatments. It was a good entree, it was a good way to get in the door. And then the other things could be icing on the cake. But people who sell home improvement design related home improvement things or services, that's who I work with. And I have a lot of resources, many of them absolutely free. The blog on my website, the articles that I write for Vision magazine, there are all kinds of things like that. I also have created a signature course plus coaching, which is what makes it a little bit different. It's not just hours and hours of video that you've got to go and try interpret on your own. It was Georgie's favorite Part of that was that she could get the lessons in little bite sized pieces once a week that fit into her schedule and then come together with a group of other people who are doing just like we're all trying to do and learn from each other and implement it. Being able to have direct asking questions and talking about what works and what doesn't work. So I guess that's all the things in a nutshell. Yeah.
- [45:22]
B
Oh, that's great. And I love that it's not just a course. I mean because I have found that if it's just a course and it lacks that live human element, you know, even if they're seeing the instructor on a screen, it is just not the same thing. It's not as impactful, there's not as much accountability. And having those group, it kind of sounds like a mastermind call where they're sharing what's worked and what hasn't worked and what they're struggling with. It just helps keep people motivated, keep them on track.
- [45:53]
A
You learn from each other.
- [45:54]
B
Yeah.
- [45:55]
A
You celebrate each other's victories. And not only that, you could listen to a whole big long video library worth of things and then have to go figure out how to do it. Or you could, I would imagine. I know when I had, when I was selling and going, working on multiple projects and owning a business, I was wearing so many hats, I was juggling so many plates, I needed to sell more. My business relied on sales. Absolutely. But I didn't have a whole heck of a lot of time to spend. And so if I create, essentially I created the course and the coaching that I wish I'd had when I was doing this. Something that can be done in bite size, kind of flexible time frame that has frequent check in. So it's a over eight weeks and every week you come in with a small group, maybe eight or 10 or you know, 12, not 200 people. And so you can have input, direct access from me. You can say I tried the action steps you gave me with the lessons this week and I flopped. This is what happened down or I felt so awkward I just didn't get it right. Well, sales is like yoga, you know, you don't get into the twisted pretzel pose on the first try, but most the time we just give up because it's hard. And so when you're in a situation like that where you can take it in, I'm a big proponent. In case you can't tell those bite sized pieces, I don't want anybody to have to swallow down a giant Thing and sales is just like that. Learning to help clients is just like that.
- [47:53]
B
Yeah. Like I said earlier, it's just so refreshing to hear your take on sales and because I, I would imagine a lot of us have already been feeling this way. Like the old way really is old. I just want to help people. And that's what you're saying. Do more helping and less focus on the selling. The selling will come as a result of the helping and having that genuine desire to meet someone where they're at. So is your course open and closed? Do you have a waiting list? Can people join anytime?
- [48:25]
A
I have a wait list. There is a wait list, absolutely. Because it starts we. You go through it together with a group. I find it's more beneficial that way. It's not just, you know, constantly. But I do have something that could, that is, I'm going to call it on demand and it's absolutely free. So your listeners might like this and it would help them get a taste of what it's like to learn from me, but in a super easy to access way. And as a matter of fact, Kate curated it for you because she participated in it, went through it, she checked me out, she did her homework about me first before.
- [49:11]
B
I always do. Yes.
- [49:14]
A
I call it the seven day sales challenge. And just as an aside, Kate particularly, the sixth day particularly resonated with Kate and she wrote me back and said, I love how you said this, I love this. And it's essentially a bunch of, well, seven kind of helpful small shifts, let's call it that. Small shifts that you can incorporate into what you're already doing. You don't have to throw out the baby with the, you know, you don't have to throw out everything and start over. You can incorporate some small shifts that will help you help your clients be better prepared to say yes when you get to the end of the appointment. And I kind of serve it out. It's literally just seven daily emails and they come out and they give you the tip and then they give you some of the background behind the tip and they give you some examples of how to do it. And many, but not all, many of the examples are related to window treatments, but they might also be related to closet systems or flooring or they can be translated to, I think what your, all of your listeners do, whether it's home staging or organizing. Selling is a translatable relation. Creating a low resistance, high trust relationship is a selling skill that is translatable across all of them. And having something that is curated specifically for our industry, the way that we go into clients homes and help them have a more comfortable, inviting home is really beneficial. I think I would be super excited for your listeners to participate in the sales challenge because I know I am 100% confident and you gave it the stamp of approval that they would find value in it.
- [51:15]
B
Yes, yes. I'm a big fan of it. I like how it is so simple but it's very relevant. I learned a thing or two and I'm not even in the home industry. So yes, it's very translatable. And where do people go to sign up for this?
- [51:29]
A
Well, because they are hearing about this on this podcast. If you go to my website, Kathy pace.com pretty easy. Kathy with a K. Kathy pace.com Kate oh perfect.
- [51:46]
B
I get my own landing page.
- [51:47]
A
Literally right there you got your own landing page. Welcome you know my new friends from the Kate podcast. Kathy pace.com Kate and then take a few minutes and cruise around because there is the Sales sale Sales Sage Journal. That's my blog that has lots of different helpful sales stories and tips. And there's things about where I my speaking engagements and my where I'm leading workshops, live workshops and also information about Modern Sales Mastery. And if you do, if you're interested and you join the interest list, I'll send you a free a video lesson from inside the course because you'll be able to tell right away, is this something that I relate to or that would work for me or not work for me? I, I think, you know, I believe in giving before you before you ask for something in return. And so I would be more than happy to give the sales challenge give a lesson from Modern Sales Mastery just so you can really see. Is, is this for you or is this not for you?
- [52:56]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And it's so generous of you to share your knowledge that way and on the show today. So thank you you again for being here and everyone listening. Please go to kathy pace.com forward/kait. Sign up for all the things you're going to learn so much from Kathy. And until next time, guys, keep your marketing simple and your message clear and I will talk to you soon.