Podcast Summary: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert
Episode: Former NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
Release Date: August 4, 2025
Host: Stephen Colbert
Guest: Dr. Francis Collins, Physician, Geneticist, and Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipient
Introduction
In this episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert, host Stephen Colbert welcomes back Dr. Francis Collins, the former director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). The conversation delves into Dr. Collins' tenure at the NIH, his recent departure, the current state of scientific research funding in the United States, and his insights from his latest book, The Road to Wisdom.
Discussion on Dr. Collins' Departure from NIH
Stephen Colbert opens the dialogue by acknowledging Dr. Collins' retirement from the NIH and his continued commitment to running a research lab. He inquires about the reasons behind Dr. Collins' decision to step down after a 12-year tenure under three different presidential administrations.
Dr. Francis Collins explains that his departure was not initially planned but became inevitable due to increasing restrictions imposed on scientific research. He states:
"After January 20th, I'm running a research lab. We get instructions that we are not supposed to go to scientific meetings, not supposed to speak to the public in any sort of way. We're not allowed to order any supplies to do the research. And basically, we're told don't start any new projects, don't do anything innovative. Just keep doing the kinds of things that you were already doing, but nothing new." (04:58)
Colbert succinctly summarizes this predicament:
"So go ahead and be a scientist, but don't do science, don't do those things." (05:26)
Dr. Collins articulates his frustration with the imposed limitations, noting that staying under such constraints was untenable. He felt unable to pursue new scientific ideas and innovations, leading to his decision to leave.
State of NIH and Scientific Morale
The conversation shifts to the broader implications of Dr. Collins' departure for the NIH and the scientific community in the U.S.
Dr. Collins paints a bleak picture of the current morale within the NIH:
"The morale at NIH is the lowest I've ever seen it. People who really thought they were there to make that next breakthrough happen or at least build a pathway towards that aren't sure anymore whether that's still possible." (06:16)
He expresses particular concern for young scientists facing a "brain drain," mentioning that even his top graduate students are considering opportunities abroad due to limited prospects in the U.S. This reversal contrasts with the traditional view of the United States as a leader in attracting top scientific talent.
Impact on Research and Future Healthcare
Addressing the immediate and long-term consequences of the NIH's restricted operations, Dr. Collins underscores the detrimental effects on critical research areas:
"Cancer research, Alzheimer's disease, rare diseases caused by genetic misspellings, you name it. HIV research was pretty much stopped cold. And certainly vaccine research has taken a serious downward turn." (07:43)
He warns that halting foundational research jeopardizes future medical breakthroughs:
"Medical miracles don't happen overnight. You have to invest in them. Our investments are in trouble now." (08:43)
Colbert reinforces the significance of this halt in research, particularly emphasizing cancer research as a critical area:
"I'm going to say cancer research, cancer." (07:55)
Insights from "The Road to Wisdom"
Transitioning to Dr. Collins' book, The Road to Wisdom, the discussion explores themes of societal polarization and the role of the "Exhausted Middle."
Colbert inquires about the "Exhausted Middle," to which Dr. Collins responds:
"It's about two-thirds of the country that has the best chance of bringing us back to where we want to be." (08:57)
He identifies several "deficits" plaguing society:
- Truth Deficit: Erosion of trust due to the proliferation of falsehoods.
- Civility Deficit: Decline in respectful discourse.
- Compassion Deficit: A troubling normalization of indifference towards the suffering of others.
Dr. Collins emphasizes the most alarming of these:
"The compassion deficit. Stephen. What happened to us? How can it have become normalized not to be concerned about our fellow human beings?" (10:14)
He highlights the real-world consequences of this deficit, citing the withdrawal of support from organizations like USAID and PEPFAR, leading to preventable child deaths:
"Predictions are that since the plug was pulled on USAID and PEPFAR, 90,000 children have died unnecessarily." (10:13)
Call to Action
Concluding the interview, Dr. Collins urges society to reclaim compassion as a fundamental value to ensure future prosperity and societal well-being.
"We gotta get that back. And I think that's up to us. If we want to flourish as a society, that's what we need to do." (10:13)
Conclusion
Stephen Colbert wraps up the episode by promoting Dr. Collins' book and encouraging listeners to engage with more content on The Late Show YouTube channel.
Dr. Francis Collins shares a poignant observation regarding the current state of scientific research and societal values, emphasizing the urgent need for reinvestment in science and a rekindling of compassion within society.
Notable Advertisements and Sponsor Segments
While the episode includes segments promoting Wonderful Pistachios and other sponsors, these were skipped in this summary to focus on the core content of the conversation with Dr. Francis Collins.
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