John Dickerson (Extended) | Sneaux Day

Summary

Episode Summary: John Dickerson (Extended) | Sneaux Day

Podcast: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert
Host: Stephen Colbert
Guest: John Dickerson, CBS News Chief Political Analyst and Co-Anchor of the All-New CBS Evening News
Release Date: January 23, 2025

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1. Introduction to John Dickerson and Current Political Climate

The episode opens with Stephen Colbert welcoming John Dickerson back to The Late Show, congratulating him on his new role at CBS Evening News. The conversation quickly delves into the political landscape at the beginning of Donald Trump's administration, highlighting the tumultuous actions taken within the first few days in office.

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2. Trump's Pardon of January 6th Rioters

John Dickerson addresses the controversial decision by President Donald Trump to pardon 1,500 individuals involved in the January 6th Capitol riot, including hundreds convicted of serious felonies like assaulting police officers with deadly weapons.

• Public Reaction: Dickerson cites a recent AP NORC-MILF Manor Poll, revealing that only 2 out of 10 Americans support the pardons. He humorously compares this approval rating to the dismal Rotten Tomatoes score of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.

  John Dickerson [03:18]: "We've said this before... There is far too much trans in Transformers, I believe."

• Political Fallout: The decision has caused significant backlash within the Republican Party. Representative Mike Johnson deflects responsibility, stating, "It's not my place," leading to confusion and criticism about his stance.

  Representative Mike Johnson [05:21]: "It's not my place. It's the President's sole decision."

• Senator Tommy Tuberville's Response: Tuberville declines to support the pardons, citing a lack of firsthand observation of the events.

  Senator Tommy Tuberville [05:38]: "I didn't see it. If I see it, I would believe it, but I didn't."

• Dickerson's Critique: He criticizes the administration’s handling of the pardons, questioning the rationale behind releasing violent offenders without adequate oversight.

  John Dickerson [05:54]: "What are you looking at? His high fine butt while he walks away."

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3. Inauguration Week and Calls for Mercy

During inauguration week, Trump and his team attended services at the National Cathedral. Reverend Marianne Buddy delivered a poignant sermon pleading for mercy and compassion towards marginalized communities and families facing hardship.

• Reverend Marianne Buddy's Sermon: She implored President Trump to show mercy to LGBTQ+ children and families, emphasizing the moral duty to protect the vulnerable.

  Reverend Marianne Buddy [07:11]: "I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away."

• Trump's Reaction: Colbert humorously notes Trump's apparent discomfort with the sermon, highlighting the administration's lack of engagement with religious and moral appeals.

  Stephen Colbert [09:04]: "He had sex with couches, which we learned. And I mean, every single couch he ever saw, he would stick his penis in. It is something that never happened."

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4. Nomination of Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense

The discussion shifts to President Trump’s nomination of Pete Hegseth, a Fox & Friends host, as Secretary of Defense. Hegseth faces numerous allegations, including alcohol abuse and verbal and emotional abuse.

• Allegations Against Hegseth:

  • Alcohol Abuse: Instances of Hegseth being excessively intoxicated, such as being dragged out of a strip club in military uniform and passing out in various settings.

  • Emotional Abuse: Reports from a sworn affidavit by Hegseth's former sister-in-law detailing his abusive behavior.

• Implications for Confirmation: Dickerson describes Hegseth’s nomination as a “huge experiment,” questioning his qualifications and suitability for such a critical role.

  John Dickerson [29:40]: "Hegseth just doesn't have that experience."

• Colbert’s Commentary: He underscores the potential dangers of appointing individuals lacking the necessary expertise to manage complex defense operations.

  Stephen Colbert [30:57]: "Walter Isaacson... said, it'll be like his experiments with the rockets, but there will be a lot of rubble."

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5. Exercise of Presidential Power and Executive Actions

Dickerson and Colbert analyze Trump's aggressive use of executive power, particularly his issuance of approximately 200 executive actions in the early days of his presidency.

• Categories of Executive Actions:

  • Baiting the Press: Executing actions to provoke media coverage.

  • Shock and Awe: Overwhelming the system with actions to destabilize opposition.

  • Messaging on Immigration: Sending a strong signal that the U.S. border is closed, aligning with Trump's hardline stance.

• Comparison with Historical Presidencies: The conversation draws parallels to Franklin D. Roosevelt’s expansion of presidential power during the Great Depression, though noting Trump’s concentration of power is more centralized.

  Stephen Colbert [23:09]: "FDR was... call the bill asking for the reorganization of the executive branch the dictator bill."

• Implications of the January 6th Pardons: Dickerson emphasizes that pardoning the rioters signifies Trump’s disregard for constitutional obligations to protect democratic processes.

  John Dickerson [16:44]: "What does it say about all presidents want to exercise power?"

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6. Mount McKinley vs. Denali: Symbolism and Federalism

Trump’s obsession with renaming Denali back to Mount McKinley is discussed as a symbolic act reflecting his administration's approach to federalism and local vs. federal authority.

• Historical Context: Mount McKinley was originally named by a miner for President McKinley and later reverted to Denali based on local preference.

• Political Significance: The renaming effort is portrayed as an assertion of federal authority over local decision-making, contrasting with conservative principles of federalism.

  John Dickerson [27:49]: "It's almost as if you're saying that the modern Republican Party is inconsistent about its beliefs."

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7. CBS Evening News Relaunch

In a shift from political discourse, the episode concludes with John Dickerson and Maurice DuBois preparing to take over as co-anchors of the newly relaunched CBS Evening News. They discuss the transition, drawing inspiration from legendary CBS anchors like Edward R. Murrow.

• Dickerson’s Reflection: He expresses admiration for past CBS news figures and the importance of maintaining journalistic integrity.

  John Dickerson [32:20]: "They were so good. They had seen the stakes of the human experiment from covering World War II."

• Colbert’s Enthusiasm: Stephen Colbert shares his excitement about the new set and the collaborative effort in preparing for the show’s premiere.

  Stephen Colbert [31:27]: "We've been every day talking about, is this the story? That's been a really extraordinary experience."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• John Dickerson [03:18]: "There is far too much trans in Transformers, I believe."
• Representative Mike Johnson [05:21]: "It's not my place. It's the President's sole decision."
• Reverend Marianne Buddy [07:11]: "I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President..."
• John Dickerson [16:44]: "What does it say about all presidents want to exercise power?"
• Stephen Colbert [23:09]: "FDR... asking for the reorganization of the executive branch the dictator bill."
• John Dickerson [27:49]: "The modern Republican Party is inconsistent about its beliefs."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert offers an incisive analysis of the early actions of Donald Trump's administration, particularly focusing on controversial pardons, aggressive executive actions, and the nomination of unqualified individuals to key positions. John Dickerson provides a critical perspective on the concentration of presidential power and its implications for American democracy, while Stephen Colbert adds his characteristic humor and sharp commentary. The discussion culminates with a nod to Dickerson's new role at CBS Evening News, bridging political discourse with journalistic evolution.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here.

[John Dickerson]

It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try.

[Stephen Colbert]

And do a little bit better than.

[John Dickerson]

We did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is.

[Stephen Colbert]

To not be a raging and raise.

[John Dickerson]

The price of wireless on you every chance I get.

[Stephen Colbert]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront.

[John Dickerson]

Payment required equivalent to $15 per month.

[Stephen Colbert]

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[John Dickerson]

Taxes and fees.

[Stephen Colbert]

Extra speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details.

[John Dickerson]

Paramount is your home for the UEFA Champions League.

[Stephen Colbert]

Magnificent.

[John Dickerson]

And this season is bigger, better, bolder than ever. That was special. With more epic matchups, momentous and historic, and more moments from soccer's iconic stars. What a goal. What a player. The UEFA Champions League. Stream every match live exclusively on Paramount. The stuff of absolute dreams. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, around the world here in the United States and in the Ed Sullivan Theatre to the Late Show. I am your host, Stephen Colbert. And I hope that everyone, hope everyone here in the United States is staying toasty warm because it is bitter cold all over the country, including the Deep South. Take. Take New Orleans. Or as locals call it, not at all. Close, right? Close.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's basically it.

[John Dickerson]

No. Okay, yes. Yesterday, the Big Easy turned Big Freezy and shattered its modern all time daily snowfall record, receiving 8 inches of snow. Laissez le bon tempsay. That snow is going to really change the vibe of throwing beads at Mardi Gras. Show me your lair. Take off your mittens. There was so much snow that on Bourbon street they had a snowball fight. New Orleans hasn't seen that much powder since anyone took a bite from a beignet. Speaking of bone chilling, Donald Trump, it's his third day in office and he's already done a lot of get it out. He's already done a lot of bad things, like pardoning 1,500 of the January 6 rioters, including. Including hundreds who committed serious felonies, such as assaulting police with deadly or dangerous weapons. Well, turns out releasing gangs of violent thugs onto our city streets is not that popular because according to a new AP NORC MILF Manor Poll, only 2 in 10Americans support pardoning the rioters. 2 out of 10. If you want an idea of how unpopular that is, that's only one point better than the Rotten Tomatoes score for Transformers Revenge of the Fallen. Folks, I tell you now, I've said this before. You've heard me say this, folks, there is far too much trans In Transformers, I believe.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, I believe.

[John Dickerson]

Of course, I believe deeply. I've always said this, that there can only be possibly 2 genders, truck or gun folks. Because this is so unpopular, Republican members of Congress are strenuously opposed to talking about it. Yesterday, a reporter asked Speaker Mike Johnson to address the issue of the pardons. Here's what he said. It's not my place. It's the President's sole decision, and he made a decision, so I stand with him on it. Not your place. They attacked the House of Representatives. That is literally your place. No, it's not. For me to say. No. No, it's not. I mean, it's not my place to speak. To do so, I would have to be some sort of speaker. I have to go. Another mind boggling act of cowardice came from Alabama senator and fart sommelier Tommy Tuberville. He was asked if it was acceptable to pardon rioters who assaulted the police. And the senator said, no, that's not acceptable. But I didn't see it. Adding, I don't believe it because I didn't see it. Now if I see it, I would believe it, but I didn't. Well, I guess if he hasn't seen anything, it didn't exist. In which case, Senator, as recently as last week, the Trump team, including J.D. vance, was out there saying out loud two reporters that each and every January 6th case would be reviewed and that violent offenders wouldn't get any pardons. So what happened? Well, according to insiders, the case by case review was onerous and time was running out heading into the Inauguration Day. So Trump just said it. Release them all. What? Just because it was taken a minute. So from now on, the TSA can just go. You know what? Line's too long. Everyone on the plane. Everyone on the plane.

[Stephen Colbert]

Sir.

[John Dickerson]

Sir, I'm sorry, sir. Please, sir. Excuse me, sir. You dropped your samurai sword. There you go. Have a great flight. Trump clearly doesn't know or doesn't care how bad all of this is. Here he is being asked about it yesterday.

[Stephen Colbert]

You would agree that it's never acceptable.

[John Dickerson]

To assault a police officer?

[Stephen Colbert]

Sure. So then if I can, among those.

[John Dickerson]

You pardon DJ Rodriguez.

[Stephen Colbert]

He drove a stun gun into the neck of a D.C. police officer who was abducted by the mob that day.

[John Dickerson]

He later confessed on video to the.

[Stephen Colbert]

FBI and pleaded guilty for his crimes.

[John Dickerson]

Why does he deserve a pardon? Well, I don't know. Was it a pardon? Because we're looking at commutes and we're looking at pardons. Okay, well, we'll take A look at everything. Take a look at everything. You already released him. What are you looking at? His high fine butt while he walks away. The time to look is before you do the stupid thing. Uh, Mrs. Henley, I'm afraid your husband did not make it because of all the things before. I read his chart here, but I promise you we're going to take another look at it because I think I left my phone in his lung. Trump doesn't seem to be shying away from these violent criminals. We just learned that the administration is having discussions about inviting some January 6 convicts to the White House for a visit. Tell you what, if you really want to get them in there, tell them they're not invited. They'll find a way, right? It's a day of love. It'll be a day of peace. Somehow. It's still inauguration week in D.C. so yesterday, Trump, Vance, and their families attended services at the National Cathedral. And the moment everybody's talking about is when the cathedral's bishop, Reverend Marianne Buddy, ended her sermon with this direct plea to the President.

[Stephen Colbert]

In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children in Democratic, Republican, and independent families, some who fear for their lives. And the people, the people who pick our crops and clean our office buildings, who labor in poultry farms and meat packing plants. I ask you to have mercy, Mr. President, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away. Our God teaches us that we are to be merciful to the stranger, for we were all once strangers in this land.

[John Dickerson]

That was beautifully said. It took courage. Not only was it. It took courage to stand up there and say something simple, something so kind, something so true to the example of Christ. And even better, it made Trump super uncomfortable. Because here's the thing. Sermons aren't a debate. Trump just had to sit there and listen to it. I wonder what was going on in his head. Well, we all worship in our own way. Nominal vice president J.D. vance also seemed pretty annoyed to have to just sit there and take Jesus words. Of course, he looked uncomfortable the whole time. Ugh, I can't have sex with this pew. There's no cushions. Remember that? Do you remember?

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you remember? He had.

[John Dickerson]

We all remember. Remember? He had sex with couches, which we learned. And I mean, every single couch he ever saw, he would stick his penis in. It is something that never happened. Reverend Buddy's message of compassion angered the usual bunch of dum dums, including Trump lackey, Representative Mike Collins of Georgia who posted a person given this sermon should be added to the deportation list.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[John Dickerson]

Hell yeah. No. Let's send her back to the hellhole she came from. New Jersey. Afterwards, Donald Trump gave church two thumbs down. What did you think? Did you like it? Did you find it exciting? Not too exciting, was it? Yeah, dawg, it's church. The most exciting thing happens is sometimes they ring a little bell. Not all the time, just sometimes. No one knows why. Another reason to pray hard is Trump's cabinet nominees. Like his pick for secretary of defense, Fox and Friends weekend co host and guy saying, oh, my hat. Even though you definitely did not ask about his hat. Pete Hegseth. Hegseth has been repeatedly and credibly accused of alcohol abuse and sexual assault. But there's a new update that'll make Republicans feel even grosser when they all vote to confirm him. It's a new sworn affidavit from Hegseth's former sister in law. Oh, you never want to cross a sister in law. You know their slogan. Sisters in law, please venmo me for the damage Parker caused the couch. Thanks. The affidavit includes numerous disturbing allegations of Hegseth's verbal and emotional abuse of his second wife, as well as instances of him being the drinkiest drunk that ever done drank. On one occasion in 2009, Hegseth allegedly got so drunk that he needed to be dragged out of a strip club while in his military uniform. Okay, that seems inappropriate, but maybe he was just being patriotic, you know, throwing little portraits of George Washington onto the stage. Hegseth also allegedly drank so much at a restaurant that his Uber driver had to pull over so he could throw up. Passed out from drunkenness at the bathroom in a bar in Minneapolis. And one Christmas, he drank so much that he threw up and passed out. Evidently, there is nowhere Pete Hegseth hasn't passed out. You can read all about it in the new children's classic, oh, the places you'll go unconscious. We got a great show for you tonight coming up. John Dickerson. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families with greenlight. You can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight risk free [e-mail] Spotify.

[Stephen Colbert]

What do you know about the lioness program? Are you a lioness? I run it.

[John Dickerson]

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[Stephen Colbert]

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[John Dickerson]

Me. With academy award winner Morgan Freeman and academy award winner Nicole Kidman.

[Stephen Colbert]

Everyone's watching on this one, and I do mean everyone.

[John Dickerson]

Lioness New season now streaming exclusively on Paramount plus.

[Stephen Colbert]

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[John Dickerson]

To help find them.

[Stephen Colbert]

Catch up now on Tracker. I'm here to help the CBS original series that critics are calling a breakout hit. Nothing good comes without risk.

[John Dickerson]

I will drink to that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Justin Hartley stars.

[John Dickerson]

Hold on. Did you say Arrow run?

[Stephen Colbert]

That's a new one. Coulter in the CBS original Tracker. Catch up on the latest episodes now on Paramount plus.

[John Dickerson]

Ladies and gentlemen, my guest tonight, the CBS News chief political analyst and starting Monday, the co anchor of the all new CBS Evening News. Please welcome back to The Late Show, Mr. John Dickerson. Nice to see you again.

[Stephen Colbert]

Happy New Year. Good to see you.

[John Dickerson]

Happy New Year to you. I guess it's still. Yeah, why not? Happy New Year.

[Stephen Colbert]

I think you guys, I guess in.

[John Dickerson]

January you're still allowed to do that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. And also just it's a good thing to say.

[John Dickerson]

It is any time of year.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[John Dickerson]

No thanks to Trump, we're saying happy New Year again.

[Stephen Colbert]

On mountain.

[John Dickerson]

It doesn't feel that new. You know, everything old is new again, to misquote that song.

[Stephen Colbert]

But the speed feels new. I mean, when Trump was first elected, he has admitted that he didn't think he would be elected. He then said shortly thereafter, 2016, he said he didn't think he would be elected. And he also said, gee, this is a lot harder than I thought it would be. And that's not. He's not new in that almost all presidents have said it was much harder than they thought because you get this great big job. And, you know, I've done this before. But LBJ said the presidency is like the boy who went to the hoochie coochie show. He finds out that it's not exactly as advertised. And you get in there and you're just, you're much more constrained. But he comes in and we've seen it with the pace of this presidency already. He comes in with a plan. And without a lot of the people who, you know, in his first term, there were a lot of people who admitted they were trying to hold him back. There's nobody holding him back this time.

[John Dickerson]

Okay. Okay. So let's just take one step back. We're three days in.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wanted to go fast to replicate the three day in feeling.

[John Dickerson]

No, I know. You did. Well done. Okay. There's already this onslaught of news and executive actions. What of these 200 executive actions? Are these things that. Is there any way of knowing whether these are gonna be things that actually happen, or are they merely aspirational? Are they just another form of throwing everything possible across the plate and just not giving anybody anything solid to swing at because you can't figure out what the most important thing is? Is he trying to just swamp us with this?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes, but I think there are different categories. There are a lot of different categories. There's the category of kind of bait. There's swamp, which is the total number which has overwhelmed the system that's been sensible to him. Shock and awe. And we should talk about that again later. Shock and awe, which is a military term for just overwhelming force at the beginning, which destabilizes even those you don't hit because it's just so overwhelming. I think some of it's bait to get the press to cover for a variety of reasons. Some of it is to just send a message, particularly on immigration. And that message is to. And anybody who wants to come to America. The idea is the door is closed, double locked, and we've nailed it. I mean, there. Some of it is, even though he knows he might lose in court on some things like, say, undoing the 14th amendment and birthright citizenship, it sends a signal. But there is one thing that is not a signal because it's done and over, and that's the pardoning of the January 6th attackers on the Capitol. That's done. We don't have to speculate about the President's view of power. And that view is that on the day that he benefited from the sort of civic ceremony of the peaceful transfer of power, he ended that day by celebrating the people who tried to block the peaceful transfer of power when he lost in 2020. So that we don't have to. We don't have to guess at what the second administration that's done, that's over.

[John Dickerson]

Okay, so that's what happened. You know, you don't have to guess about the reality of that. That's a real thing. What does it say? Like, what does it say about the. All presidents want to exercise power. What's different about that exercise of power?

[Stephen Colbert]

The January 6th pardon?

[John Dickerson]

The pardons.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Well, what it says is that he went about. That's about as far as you can go. Because remember, he's the protector of the.

[John Dickerson]

Oh, my God. You make me want to knock wood when you say that's the farthest Trump can go on anything.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, think of a core presidential task that's to protect the constitutional system, which is, at its core, has this idea of a peaceful, free and fair election.

[John Dickerson]

And it's in the oath. Preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and.

[Stephen Colbert]

Don'T use violent means to overthrow a free and fair election that you lost. That's central to the job. And so to give a pass to all the people who did that. I mean, think about this. There is a plaque that is supposed to go up on the wall at the Capitol. Hasn't gone up yet. Passed by law to honor the 140 or 150 law enforcement officers who were injured that day by those rioters. Can they put the plaque up now? Because the people who did the injuring have all been pardoned.

[John Dickerson]

Well, if it went up by law, it's supposed to go up. Is Mike Johnson just stopping it from going up?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[John Dickerson]

Oh, okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

So.

[John Dickerson]

Well, thanks for stopping by.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[John Dickerson]

You hinted before. You said. Not hinted. You said he's got fewer constraints than ever before because he doesn't have people like Madison there. He doesn't have people like Tillerson, even people that people kind of like raised eyebrows at in those positions. What do we know about his. What can we glean from his exercise of power through his departments with these people he's nominating? Because my understanding, what I've heard is that, like, you know, Secretary Yellen, you know, as Secretary of Treasury was good, but a little academic, she should have been out there as a salesman. She's not supposed to run the joint. Yeah. What do you imagine the purpose of these kind of nominees who don't seem to be qualified for their positions, in my opinion. I'm not laying that on you. Like, I'm not saying this is what you think, but what do you think it signals that these are the people that go in each position?

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I think he wants a couple of important things. He wants loyalty to him, which is important for him because he didn't have loyalty to him before Secretary Mattis at the Department of Defense. His loyalty was the Constitution. His sense of duty.

[John Dickerson]

Stupid question. Does he literally have a loyalty oath? Like, has there been any talk of something like that?

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't think so. I think it's all implicit. But they have. But I mean, I think we do know there is reporting that in. They have asked a certain set of Questions sometimes about the election he lost in 2020 and others to test the loyalty of the people who would work for him. But he wants loyalty because. And he's also not alone in this with presidencies. He's just taking it to an extra degree. But that is to say, look, I don't want a lot of guff. I want to do what I was elected to do by the American people, and let's get some stuff done. Now, the problem or the challenge is for him is that some of the people he's putting in office because they are loyal and also because they're good on TV or good public presenters. What he's asking them to do is a very complicated thing, which is rewire a lot of these big institutions. That's a hard thing to do, Adam. In the private sector, people don't just waltz into companies and totally rewire them with great success rates. People try it, but they fail, often because it's very hard to do. And the people that he's moving into, say, HHS or Defense, don't necessarily have any of the skills required to take massive institutions and take them in a whole new direction.

[John Dickerson]

Is it possible that for this administration, that bug is a feature that you actually don't believe in the administrative state or the government having a role in making our lives better, but instead you just appoint people to fire a bunch of people and undermine the power of all the departments, and then you've achieved what you wanted as a smaller government because you don't believe it should be exercising power over our lives or over the executive branch in terms of oversight.

[Stephen Colbert]

I think there is merit in that theory. And the theory is that I want to do the decision making in the White House, and so you execute what I'm going to do, but don't spend a lot of time. And what happens with Cabinet secretaries often is they get into the Cabinet and then they have to deal with the demands of the building, and they have to balance those with the demands of the president. No, the president wants his people to do what he wants. And the challenge with that, for a president who seeks to run that experiment, and it's a bold one, is what happens when something goes wrong and you can't fix it with the skills of the people you picked. Covid would be a good example of a presidency that's. That's challenged by something. All presidencies get challenges. And if you build an organization that seeks. That's set up one way, it has difficulty dealing with some of those challenges, those surprises that hit Every that hit almost every president. See, George W. Bush wasn't expecting terrorism. Barack Obama with the financial crisis, even Grover Cleveland, who we keep talking about because he's the other president who had two non consecutive terms in 1893, comes into office, whoops, there's the panic of 1893, the biggest depression up to the country's history at that point. So surprises, when we think of the lack of constraints on President Trump, surprises might be a constraint because you have to go deal with the surprise and you can't run the plays you expected to.

[John Dickerson]

One option of course, in that is to deny that you were surprised and B, to say everything's fine and that you did handle it well, just so you won't get any credit from the press.

[Stephen Colbert]

Or in Trump's case with COVID 19, he didn't get credit from the voters either because they voted him out in 2020 and therefore they did not vote.

[John Dickerson]

Him out because he won.

[Stephen Colbert]

Which. Yes.

[John Dickerson]

Okay, so you're always great to put things in historical perspective for us. Let's talk about other presidents. Have any other presidents wielded power in this way? Is there some similar thing in the past?

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I mean, we've had massive power wielder. Look at Truman, I mean, you know, drop bombs, you make that call. That's a huge wielding of power seized the steel industry. So we've had presidents who've done very powerful acts. Any of act of war is that. But I think one who has come in. I have been going back and looking at what the claims that were made about FDR when he came into office because things were so bad, a heck of a lot worse than they are now. Things were so bad there were some supporters of FDR who were saying why not a dictator? So the New York Herald Tribune I think at one point said a dictator if necessary. And the idea was basically give him lots of extra power to solve the problems we have.

[John Dickerson]

Well, certainly we're at a time now when autocracy is rising around the globe and so were the 1930s. I mean, it's just sort of de rigueur to have a dictator right now.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, literally back with fdr, I can't remember whether some columnists said, you know, if we need FDR to be our Mussolini, then that might be necessary. But when you look at what FDR was asking for as he sought to originally expand the presidency, it was teeny tiny. He went to Congress and said, you know, I need a little more staff because the modern age runs very quickly and I need more people in the executive branch, 330,000 Western Union telegrams were sent to Washington in opposition. They called the bill asking for the reorganization of the executive branch the dictator bill. People marched in the streets from all over the country that came to Washington to march because they said he was trying to be a dictator. He was asking for, like, a couple of staffers and maybe a cabinet official, and he had to ask Congress. That just gives you some sense. The reason this is all important is Donald Trump has seized the presidency as a power, has an office that is central and has dominion over all the other branches of government. That's not really the way the system was designed. And with fdr, it was. The power was much more spread out among Congress and not just centralized in the presidency at the beginning of his term.

[John Dickerson]

Let's talk about that exercise of power and the hints that he's going to exercise power in a certain way in the inaugural address. Did you see that expressed in the address that he was going to wield power or see himself as a locus of, you know, complete power?

[Stephen Colbert]

I would say look at the address and then look at some of his initial moves. When he talks about upending the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship, which is guaranteed in the Constitution, he's basically.

[John Dickerson]

And affirmed by the Supreme Court.

[Stephen Colbert]

Over and over, he's essentially saying, I know better. And also, if you're going to change that, you have to do it through Congress. So I know better than the Supreme Court and I know better than Congress. Then on, obviously, we've talked about the January 6th move that basically, I know better than the justice system.

[John Dickerson]

A thousand people have either been found guilty or pleaded guilty.

[Stephen Colbert]

And then on the TikTok business, now here he's got some room to run. But essentially on TikTok, this is legislation to ban TikTok that went through Congress. And he's saying, no, I'm going to interrupt it.

[John Dickerson]

How does that happen, by the way? Because it went through Congress, Biden signed it, the Supreme Court said, yeah, no, it's gotta be done by the 19th. And then he was like, not really.

[Stephen Colbert]

No.

[John Dickerson]

But how is that possible? That he just says, not really and it continues. And I'm not saying banning TikTok is the right thing or the wrong thing. I don't understand how it just continues.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't think. I don't quite see how it is possible it's not happening. Well, yes. Ish. I think I'm out of my depth in terms of. I pushed you into.

[John Dickerson]

Out of your depth.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Yes. Some people believe that's the starting point. But the important point I think I'm trying to make on the TikTok business is that he's saying, I know better than Supreme Court, the legislative process. So he has put himself above those things. Now, other presidents have done that. They've said, you know what Joe Biden said, student debt, I'm getting rid of some of it. There are moves that presidents have made that are sort of with a sweep of my hand, but this is on day one. And essentially, across all branches of government, he is saying, I am the supreme dominant figure. So if you look at his speech, look at the way in which his personal body and he embodies. It's not I'm gonna test the limits of power. It is I am power. And Donald Trump has a better understanding of power than any president. I don't know. FDR was pretty good, too, but he understands power. And if you want to, the symbols of that was the was the tech CEOs who were there to pay him homage at his inauguration and to drop off the checks. Well, they did spend a lot of money on his inaugural events. But also look at on the January 6th rioters. Think about what a power move that is with the members of Congress. These are people whose building was attacked by the rioters who have to go to work every day and pass policemen who were there being attacked. And they are saying very little. I think Senator Murkowski has denounced it. But the rest of them, as you showed earlier, don't want to talk about the pardons. I mean, he has this is a dominant move on his part. He has done something quite sweeping, and his whole party is okay with it. And that is an assertion of power. And he has learned that when he asserts power, it just brings him more power. There's a phrase in Washington that you have power by proximity. I think as he exercises power, people want to be in proximity to him. And that's what we saw with the tech CEOs.

[John Dickerson]

Look, I'm gonna ask about why is he so obsessed with William McKinley? I have not heard anyone talk about William McKinley so much.

[Stephen Colbert]

He wants to rename Denali McKinley Mount McKinley.

[John Dickerson]

Right. But he also talks about, like, what a great president.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, he was pro tariffs. McKinley was very pro tariffs, but he was. Karl Rove wrote a book about this, arguing for the Republican Party. They should follow what McKinley did because McKinley was not a nativist. McKinley expanded his electoral coalition by bringing in the immigrants and the Catholics. And So, so he McKinley doesn't see immigration the way Donald Trump does. But you know the funny thing about Mount McKinley, which Trump wants to change because Obama changed it back. It was in 1896. They called it Mount. A miner who was mining gold called it Mount McKinley, because McKinley was for the gold standard. McKinley's not from Alaska. He's from Ohio. So it was the nickname for the. And then it was made official, and then all the Ohio members of Congress kept protecting it. In Alaska, they passed a law saying, no, we want to go back to calling it Denali. So if you were a conservative who believes in federalism, you would say, well, we have to go with the local people, want what they voted for, what their government has picked, which is calling it Mount Denali. But, no, this is a federal.

[John Dickerson]

It's almost as if you're saying that the modern Republican Party is inconsistent about its beliefs, John. It's a shocking. It's a shocking position to be taken. Oh, we're gonna take another break, but don't go away. Hey, everybody. We're back with John Dickerson. Hegseth is still around. Okay. He's working his way toward being confirmed. You've described his nomination as a huge experiment. What do you mean by that? Because we're in the experimental chamber with him. He's gonna be our Sec Def. And that's an incredibly important and dangerous position.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, that's a good point. I mean, just Walter Isaacson, the biographer of Elon Musk, talked about Musk's working with Trump, and he said, it'll be like his experiments with the rockets, but there will be a lot of rubble. Well, the rubble is us. I mean, in this. That metaphor. So continuing that on with you, the. The experiment being run at these agencies, you know, there are consequences. And Hegseth is obviously loyal and is good on tv, but he has no experience running that kind of operation and managing the complexity. And it's not just the complexity of a building, as you say. Trump may have a different notion of how the Pentagon should run. That's perfectly fine. That might even be good. But you need somebody who has skill and experience executing. Mike Bloomberg said, you know, running and executing a department, it's like reading a book about skiing and then going down a double black diamond. You can't do that. You need to build up to it. And so Hegseth just doesn't have that experience.

[John Dickerson]

On Monday, CBS is relaunching the CBS Evening News with you and Maurice Dubois at the helm. The anchors. Congratulations, first of all. Thank you to you and to Maurice.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you.

[John Dickerson]

Here's. Here's an Official shot of what that's gonna be like. But I particularly. I like this one. This is much more Ed Murrah for me. I really like. I really like that.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, it's been great because for the last two months, we've been working and talking about the show and doing rehearsals and how do you rehearse?

[John Dickerson]

How do you get ready for this? Talk about reading a book and then doing a double black diamond.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, well, we've been going through the news as if we were doing. We'd been doing our own little pretend show. And first in.

[John Dickerson]

This is your news happier than ours, John?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. It's all rainbows and gumdrops at first in a little side set. It was like a closet. There was like a Hoover vacuum. I mean, it was. But now we're in this amazing new set, and basically, we've been every day talking about, is this the story? That's the lead? Is that the story? And then Maurice and I have been basically learning about each other and the way we see the news, and that's been a really extraordinary experience. And. Great. And the team there kind of sees things the same way. And I can't wait to take the car out for the drive on the 27th.

[John Dickerson]

Well, it's the most storied chair. That's the most storied chair in the evening news business. And I'm just curious. I mean, you've got a connection all the way back to the Ed Murrow days because your mom worked for him at CBS News. Of all the anchors who've ever been on any of the network anchor chairs, who speaks to you and Maurice, like, who are models for you?

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, well, that's like saying trying to pick your favorite child because there are a lot of great ones out there. Well, I mean, first of all, I follow in the footsteps of two amazing women. Nora, who's got the job now, and then mom, who was never an anchor, but because I grew up with her, she would talk about Severide and Murrow and Cronkite. Severide. Okay. If I have to pick one, evidently, of a fellow. Yeah. From Minnesota and had a kind of literary feeling about the news. And what I liked about that is the context that he brought to that. I mean, those guys were all so good. They were so good. They just. They had seen the stakes of the human experiment from covering World War II. So they had a grounding, and they just. You know, it's why it's such a joy to work with the people I work with now, because, man, they work so hard to try to get it right. And they sacrifice their time and their lives. In many case, it's a real. It's a real, real big honor.

[John Dickerson]

Well, starting Monday, five nights a week.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[John Dickerson]

A real job.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, Exactly. Well, in this news cycle, I mean, you're lucky if it's five nights a week.

[John Dickerson]

John, good to see you. Congratulations to you. And Maurice, good luck on Monday. The all new CBS Evening News starts Monday at 6:30 here. CBS. John Dickerson, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late show pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to the Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives. Roll out. Transformers 1 is now streaming on Paramount Plus. Awesome. It's the blast from beginning to end. Okay, stop. I'm in. Transformers 1, rated PG. Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

[Stephen Colbert]

Welcome to the Oil business.

[John Dickerson]

Billy Bob Thornton, Demi Moore and Jon Ham star in a new Paramount plus original series.

[Stephen Colbert]

The world has already convinced itself that you are evil.

[John Dickerson]

And I am evil for providing them the one thing they interact with every day. You're all right. Here we go. From Taylor Sheridan, executive producer of Yellowstone.

[Stephen Colbert]

Get everybody back. You just put a giant bullseye on this place. We rolled the dice one last time, Landman.

[John Dickerson]

New series now streaming exclusively on Paramount plus.