Jonathan Karl | The File Countdown

Summary

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Jonathan Karl | The File Countdown
Date: November 13, 2025
Guest: Jonathan Karl (ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent, author of "Retribution")

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delivers Stephen Colbert’s signature satirical and sharp-witted take on the latest political headlines, focusing on the dramatic day in Washington: the end of a 43-day government shutdown, the high-stakes power struggle in Congress over the Epstein files, and revelations about former President Trump’s connections to Epstein, as well as an interview with journalist Jonathan Karl about his new book "Retribution." The discussion delves into both breaking news and behind-the-scenes insights from Karl’s investigative reporting—offering listeners a critical lens on current U.S. political dramas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown Ends Amid Congressional Showdown

• [03:56–04:11] Colbert opens the show with news that the House finally voted to end a 43-day shutdown, providing comic relief while summarizing the gravity and absurdity of the prolonged impasse.
• The swearing-in of Democrat Adelita Grijalva is highlighted as historic, not just for ending the deadlock but for immediately influencing the Epstein files’ release.
  • Colbert jokes: “Down there is the room where you’re going to topple the pervert cabal.” ([04:34])

2. The Epstein Files & Trump Connections Unveiled

• [04:34–10:35] Colbert breaks down newly revealed emails from Jeffrey Epstein, including ones linking Trump to Epstein's conduct.
  • Colbert’s sardonic tone: “Wow. What a shocking revelation. This is like that moment in the Sixth Sense when Bruce Willis appears on screen and you’re like, oh, I get it. He’s the guy on the poster.” ([04:56])
• The narrative reveals Michael Wolff communicating with Epstein about potentially blackmailing Trump and highlights the perverse normalcy of their exchanges.
  • Quote: “Looks like you’re trying to avoid questions about sex crimes. Would you like help?” ([Colbert, 06:00])
• Ghislaine Maxwell emails are mentioned, with references to Trump as “the dog that hasn’t barked,” fueling speculation about who knew what and when.

3. Unusual Coin News & Trump Legacy

• [10:35–12:22] A coin commemorating Trump for the 250th anniversary is mocked for its impracticality and break with tradition.
  • Colbert quip: “In America, historically, we don’t put living people on money…that coin was so unpopular…they melted it down.” ([10:46–11:20])
• Jokes are interwoven about White House decor makeovers and claims of the Lincoln Bedroom being haunted—a segue for Colbert’s signature surreal humor and an Abraham Lincoln impersonator.

4. Interview with Jonathan Karl: Washington Insiders & Untold Stories

• [15:49–24:16]
• Jonathan Karl explains the critical release of new Epstein-related emails/documents, their sources, and the implications of political actors’ reactions.
  • Karl: "All those emails that came out today, they came from the Epstein estate…these were all new. They raised so many more questions.” ([15:49])
• On Congressional maneuvers: Details the pivotal role of Congresswoman Grijalva in signing the discharge petition, and the White House’s efforts to keep certain Republicans from supporting it— including trying to sway Rep. Lauren Boebert in the Situation Room ([16:27–17:42]).
• Discussion of the shutdown deal’s inclusion of a bizarre clause allowing Republican senators to sue the DOJ for $500,000 over subpoenaed records—shedding light on legislative horse-trading.
  • Karl: “…it basically makes it impossible for the Justice Department to defend against that lawsuit. So for any of those Republican senators that sue, it basically is a check for $500,000.” ([19:29-20:02])

5. Unseen Evidence from the Trump Investigations

• [20:02–22:51]
• Karl shares details from Jack Smith’s final (unpublished) report on Trump’s classified documents case, revealing Trump allegedly hid documents from his own lawyers and was recorded discussing obstruction ([20:17–21:02]).
• Mike Pence’s Handwritten January 6th Notes:
  • Colbert brings up Pence’s notes from the morning of January 6th that hadn’t been revealed in prior investigations.
    • Karl: “Pence was a cartoonist…this is his calendar…You see him just detailing the ways in which Trump is basically threatening him and telling him, you have to do this.” ([21:48-22:45])
    • Colbert: “That's a very accurate picture of Trump.” ([22:45]), referencing Pence’s angry-face doodle.
  • Karl deflects specifics about how he obtained the notes, hinting at the sensitive nature of investigative journalism ([23:03–23:07]).

6. Karl’s Relationship with Trump

• [23:23–24:16]
• Humorous rundown of Trump’s insults towards Karl, compiled by Karl’s daughter:
  • “A third-rate reporter, a real scumbag, a lightweight…you’re never going to make it…works so hard but has so little talent.” ([23:42])
  • Colbert: “You raised her right.” ([24:17])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Description | |-----------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:56 | Stephen Colbert | “Wow. What a shocking, shocking revelation. This is like that moment in the Sixth Sense when Bruce Willis appears on screen and you’re like, oh, I get it. He’s the guy on the poster.” | | 06:00 | Colbert (satire) | “Looks like you’re trying to avoid questions about sex crimes. Would you like help?” | | 15:49 | Jonathan Karl | “All those emails that came out today, they came from the Epstein estate…these were all new. They raised so many more questions.” | | 17:09 | Jonathan Karl | “The first thing she does as a member of Congress is sign that discharge petition to force a vote on releasing the Justice Department’s Epstein files.” | | 19:29 | Jonathan Karl | “…it basically makes it impossible for the Justice Department to defend against that lawsuit…so for any of those Republican senators that sue, it basically is a check for $500,000.” | | 21:51 | Jonathan Karl | “I wrote a book about January 6th and I hadn’t seen this. The January 6th committee…they hadn’t seen this thing. This is extraordinary because Mike Pence is about to go to the Capitol to preside over the certification of the election, and Trump is calling him at 10 o’clock in the morning and berating him…” | | 23:42 | Jonathan Karl | “So he’s called me a third rate reporter, a real scumbag, a lightweight…he said, you’re never going to make it…works so hard but has so little talent. So the relationship is, you know, it’s good.” |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:56 – Colbert’s monologue on government shutdown and introduction of the Epstein file news
• 10:35 – Satirical segment on the new Trump coin and haunted Lincoln Bedroom
• 15:49 – Jonathan Karl joins, discusses new Epstein files and Congressional intrigue
• 19:29 – Deep dive into Jack Smith investigation, classified documents, and January 6th evidence
• 23:23 – Karl on his personal, often combative relationship with Trump

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Tone & Style

The episode is marked by Colbert’s comic, irreverent, and incisive tone—mixing sharp satire with direct, factual reporting in conversation with Jonathan Karl. The interview is candid, fast-paced, and leverages both humor and journalistic seriousness to unpack heavy political stories, occasionally breaking tension with absurdity (e.g., Colbert’s Lincoln ghost bit).

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Takeaway

Whether you follow U.S. politics closely or just want to understand the latest chaos with a side of laughs, this episode unpacks the day’s explosive revelations about government gridlock, shadowy power plays over the Epstein files, and inside accounts of Trump-era investigations—all filtered through Colbert’s comedic lens and Karl’s reportage. As Colbert quips, the news is stranger than fiction—“You think you understand how this business works, but you don’t.” ([24:42])

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, everybody. Stephen Colbert here about to read the copy for our sponsor. This is from our friends at Wonderful Pistachios. And I was the wonderful pistachio spokesman for years. Yeah, I have a real close association with nut meat. Okay. You know what they say when they reach for a snack? Don't hold back. And that's exactly the approach with Wonderful Pistachios. The don't hold back snack. These little wonders are so tasty, it feels like getting away with something. But surprise. Each serving has 6 grams of protein and 0 grams of regret. That's right. No guilt. Just glory, glory in our nuts. Whether it's a satisfying crack of in shell pistachios, and that's capitalized in shell, or the smooth, instant gratification of no shells. No judgment. That's just it. Just eat. No judgment. I take issue with one thing. It's instant gratification. It's super tasty smooth.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

It's a hard nut smooth.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. I mean, even out of the shell, it's still a nut.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

We can't disparage the nuts.

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[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not disparaging the nut. I'm describing the nut.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Don't disparage any flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not. I am celebrating the pistachio right now. I'm on board. I love pistachios. I love. I love crushed pistachio. Like a pistachio crusted trout. Oh, unbelievable. Instead of a trout amandine, a trout pistachio. Fantastic. Enough butter? Who cares?

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Very good.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I love pistachio ice cream.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Have you had the sea salt and vinegar? Wonderful pistachio. It's delicious. I get em.

[Stephen Colbert]

I didn't even know I get them.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Before the softball games.

[Stephen Colbert]

But that's. You see, it's been a while since I've been the spokesman for wonderful pistachios. I didn't realize we'd achieved new pistachio technology.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jonathan Karl]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wonderful pistachios has every snack style covered. Right now. There's an obsession with jalapeno lime. There is an obsession session. It's almost a disorder. It's spicy, it's zesty. It's basically a flavor roller coaster in a nut. Snacking on the go. Grab a bag of no shells. Feeling contemplative and want to work for it a little. So earning it, they're saying if you want to earn your nut, crack open those in shell beauties. Either way, it's snacking like a champ. So the next time hunger strikes, don't hold back. Unless it's a hunger strike. And Then it's important that you do because whatever you're doing that for, I'm sure it's a worthwhile cause. Snack like you mean it with wonderful pistachios. Visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

That was a wonderful.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wonder what more there is to learn. We just told them so much. We just told them so much about pistachios. But evidently there's a whole other world. There's an unexplored vista.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

They got a bunch of flavors. They got dill pickle, jalapeno lime, as we learned, smoky barbecue. There's a lot of different flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. And I would not disparage any of them.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

No, no, no.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bring it on.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Nothing bad to say.

[Stephen Colbert]

Nut me, nut, nut me with nut meat.

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We're nut.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, we got nothing but nut. Nutty, nutty, nutty, nutty. Talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about nutty.

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[Stephen Colbert]

Welcome, welcome, one and all to THE Late Show. I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. After 43 days, the house is finally voting. The shutdown is expected to end by midnight tonight.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yep.

[Stephen Colbert]

At which point, Chuck Schumer will be dropped over Times Square. Anderson and Andrew, you're already drunk. This vote ends an historic impasse with an agreement that. Well, who cares? Because after the House reopened, Democrat Adelita Grijalva was finally sworn in as a member of Congress. Seven weeks. Seven weeks after she won a special election in Arizona. So this Arizona lawmaker is rising reborn from the ashes, just like the namesake of her home, Tucson. More importantly, the newly sworn ingrialva is the 218th and final signature needed on the discharge petition to force a vote compelling the release of the Epstein files. That's a big first day, right? That is. That's a really big first day. All right, here's the key to the ladies room. Over there is the Xerox machine. Down there is the room where you're going to topple the pervert cabal. Maybe. Maybe to celebrate Grijalva's swearing In Democrats on the House Oversight Committee gave the New York Times just a taste of hopefully what's to come, including emails from Epstein in which he alleged that Trump knew of his conduct with underage girls. Wow. What a shocking, shocking revelation. This is like that moment in the Sixth Sense when Bruce Willis appears on screen and you're like, oh, I get it. He's the guy on the poster. One of the email recipients is freelance journalist and sex Luther Michael Wolf. Wolf got close to Epstein back in the day while being pitched to work on a potential biography of the sex criminal in 2014. Right. Well, in 2019, when Donald Trump was president, Epstein emailed Wolf, writing, of course Trump knew about the girls. Of course he did. They were best pals. And underage girls was Epstein's whole thing. Yes, the Hamburglar was my best friend, but I always assumed he was getting the burgers legitimately. And then later I was like, oh, wait, that's why he wore a mask. It's not the only damning email Epstein sent to Wolf. In 2015, when Trump was running for his first term, Wolf emailed Epstein saying, I hear CNN's planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you. To which Epstein replied, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? That is never a good sign when Jeffrey Epstein is trying to help. You draft a response, like some kind of perverted clippy. Looks like you're trying to avoid questions about sex crimes. Would you like help? I can make it a newsletter now. In the email response, Wolf suggested that Epstein keep his bargaining chip with Trump, saying, if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. Okay, that's blackmail. And I would like to point out blackmail really only works when you're blackmailing someone about something they did that they don't want anyone to know about. That's why you never hear a mobster say, hey, give me $1,000, or everyone's gonna find out that you donate the Meals on Wheels. Epstein's other email correspondent was his partner in horrible Ghislaine Maxwell. In 2008, Epstein went to jail for underage soliciting. By 2011, he was out, but the tabloids were all over him. His relationship with Prince Andrew was news, and reporters were trying to get responses from any of his famous friends. Epstein emails Maxwell saying, I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Yeah. To quote Shakespeare, woof. Epstein continued saying of Trump that an unnamed Epstein victim, quote, spent hours at my house with him. Reached for comment. Donald Trump bulldozed the West Wing GOP leadership, accused Democrats of cherry picking their documents. And to prove their point, Republicans on the House oversight committee released 20,000 additional Epstein documents. But that doesn't prove anything. Your Honor, to definitively prove his innocence, I would like to call to the stand all the people. My client did not murder you first, you, Honor. I don't know if we'll ever forget the insanity of the Trump presidency. And Trump wants to make sure that we can't, possibly, because his Treasury Department has announced they'll be minting a $1 coin depicting President Trump. And here's what that stupid coin is going to look like. Here's the front with Trump once again getting in the way of liberty. And here's the back. Trump raising his fist with two messages. E pluribus unum. Out of many 1. And fight, fight, fight. Just like it says in the Pledge of Allegiance. One nation under God getting oiled up and wrastling in a pit. According to the treasury, this coin is for the country's 250th birthday. But that's crazy. If you're going to put a person on a coin to celebrate the founding of America, pick someone who was there when it was, like Joe Biden. Now, as I say, almost got a little something there. Now, as I say, almost every day. This is probably illegal. I just had it printed at a certain point. Now, it breaks all sorts of official coin design rules, but it's also impractical. One coin expert points out that it would be a nightmare to make because the deepest parts of the coin would be opposite each other. Adding the design tells me they don't know anything about coinage.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Boom.

[Stephen Colbert]

New mismatic slam. You just got.

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You just got numismanatic. You new Ms. Mad. The coin lady says you're dumb. Historically, here's the deal. In America, historically, we don't put living people on money. The last time we did was for the country's 150th birthday in 1926, when the US Mint released a coin with a joint image of George Washington and Calvin Coolidge. Fun fact, that coin was so unpopular that nearly 860,000 of them were returned to the treasury and melted. Well, no wonder we got a Great Depression. Oh, boo. This money is ugly. Burn it, Montgomery. It doesn't match my sassy straw boater. By now, we all know Trump is building that big stupid ballroom. But it turns out he's been doing extreme home makeovers all over the White House, including the Lincoln Bathroom. As you can see, he went from art deco tile to where Siegfried and Roy bathe their tigers. There's also a little update about the Lincoln Bedroom. A former White House usher is releasing a new book called White House Memories, and in it, he claims the Lincoln Bedroom is haunted. According to the story, one White House staffer who was asked to retrieve some furniture went into the Lincoln Bedroom, and as he walked in the door, the rocking chair in the corner was moving. He swears that President Abraham Lincoln was there. Okay, that sounds scary, and it's a good story, but I don't actually believe that Lincoln's ghost was suddenly appearing to just some guy who's.

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

Hey, hey, Steve.

[Stephen Colbert]

Great. Lincoln's ghost.

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

Yeah, yeah. Had to stop by before your show ends. Haven't been to a theater in a while. Fingers crossed.

[Stephen Colbert]

All right. All right. Well, well, Mr. President, thank you for being here. Is it true that you've been haunting the White House?

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

Sure is, sugar. I wanted to check out the new bathroom. It's nice, but I miss the Art Deco, and I really miss what it was like when I was there.

[Stephen Colbert]

What was the bathroom like back then, Fancy bucket? Well, you're one of our greatest presidents. And I have to ask, what do you think of our current commander in chief?

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

I'd rather talk about how there are too many dogs in heaven.

[Stephen Colbert]

I beg your pardon?

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

It's true. All dogs go there, but that's just too many. They're everywhere. And nobody goes to heaven to pick up dog droppings, so it's all over the clouds. Smells like Coachella.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, they certainly don't show that in the painting, sir. Any other complaints about heaven?

[Jonathan Karl]

No.

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

I've experienced pleasures there I never deemed possible on earth. Sexual pleasures, I mean.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, well, good for you. I thought.

[Abraham Lincoln (Impersonator or Character)]

Yeah, no, thanks. I thought the male orgasm was a myth. Turns out it's very real. Except I don't like it when all.

[Stephen Colbert]

The dogs watch Abraham Lincoln's ghost. Everybody, we got a great show for you tonight coming up. Jonathan.

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[Stephen Colbert]

A month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. See mintmobile.com My first guest tonight is an author and ABC News chief Washington correspondent. His new book is called Retribution. Please welcome back to THE Late Show. Jonathan Karl, nice to have you back. Especially lots of news in Washington. There always is. But today we woke up to kind of a special one, a couple things. House Democrats released some of Epstein's emails about Trump that they got from the Epstein estate. Two hours later, House Republicans released 23,000 pages of Epstein documents. What does this mean in the timeline of releasing all the Epstein documents?

[Jonathan Karl]

Well, here's the key thing is all of those emails that came out today, they came from the Epstein estate. So all this battle over releasing the so called Epstein files from the Justice Department, this was an additional batch of documents.

[Stephen Colbert]

So this is something we didn't expect.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah. And by the way, we've seen a lot of Epstein stuff over the years through the various criminal cases. These were all new. And I mean, they raised so many more questions. Who was the dog that didn't bark? I mean, it was Trump. What does that mean exactly? I mean, and you know, clearly shows that there was much more of an awareness, or it seems to suggest, I should say more of an awareness on Trump's part of what was going on.

[Stephen Colbert]

Right. At one point, Michael Wolff, who for some reason is advising Jeffrey Epstein on how to get the most out of this situation from Trump, he can, he goes like, hey, maybe he wins. And then you've got, basically you've got something on him, but you only have something on him if there's something to have on him. It really does seem like these are two guys talking about something about dark information that they're just not writing down on a piece of paper.

[Jonathan Karl]

And the amazing thing today, so in addition to that and all those emails and what you just suggested you had, obviously the shutdown ends. We swear in the new member of Congress who was elected seven weeks ago, Congresswoman Grijalva.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedy writer or regular guest)]

Now.

[Jonathan Karl]

And the first thing she does as A member of Congress is sign that discharge petition to force a vote on releasing the Justice Department's Epstein files. But there was a massive effort before that by the White House to try to get the Republicans that had already signed on. A handful of Republicans. How many?

[Stephen Colbert]

Four or something like that.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah. And one of them being Lauren Boebert. And Lauren Boebert actually was at the White House in the Situation Room today getting briefed by the attorney General in an effort to try to get her to take her.

[Stephen Colbert]

Pam Bondi took her into the Situation Room.

[Jonathan Karl]

This is the Situation Room. And you've got the Attorney General of the United States briefing this member of Congress who is defying the White House and signing this thing.

[Stephen Colbert]

And by the way, also on Capitol Hill, Democrat senators are dealing with the fallout of having voted with Republicans to end the shutdown. Have you. It doesn't help now, but thank you. Have you talked with any of these eight senators?

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah, I have. And I've also talked to senators who were against this and wanted to continue the fight and wanted to continue the shutdown and to force the Republicans to give in on health care, which was.

[Stephen Colbert]

The stated goal by Chuck Schumer and others.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah, like, we're not going to back down. We're going to insist on this.

[Stephen Colbert]

We have to make sure that we get the ACA subsidies.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah. And then ultimately. But I got to tell you, my conversations with senators who were technically opposed to this, Democrats were actually happy to see this end. I mean, the shutdown had gone on for 43 days. They elevated this issue of the fact that for 20 plus million Americans, health insurance premiums are going to skyrocket on January 1st. And the Republicans showed no signs of giving in on this at all. Airports were ground to a halt. People were about to lose their food stamp benefits. And I think there was a feeling like, you know, we've elevated the issue and it's time to move on, even as you heard a lot of people complaining about it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Now, the deal that the senators voted on includes a provision about former special counsel Jack Smith.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

And what, what does ending the shutdown have to do with a former DOJ lawyer who was in charge of investigations of the January 6th attack and the classified documents case down in Mar a Lago.

[Jonathan Karl]

Absolutely nothing. But. But it did include this provision. It allows eight. Eight different. Eight, eight Republican senators who Jack Smith had subpoenaed their telephone records. It allows those eight Republican senators to sue the Justice Department for $500,000. And it basically makes it impossible for the Justice Department to defend against that lawsuit. So for any of those Republican senators that sue, it basically is a check for $500,000.

[Stephen Colbert]

You write about Jack Smith in your new book, Retribution. You include new details from Smith's final report on the classified documents case, which has never been made public.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

What did you uncover?

[Jonathan Karl]

First of all, what I tried to do was if Jack Smith had managed to finish and he wasn't, you know, didn't have to wrap up because Trump had won, all that we would have seen at trial, both in the, in the January 6 case. In the classified document case, there was a treasure trove of information. On the classified documents case, you see the extent to which Trump was hiding, allegedly, his. The classified documents that he took with him from the White House, even hiding them from his own lawyers and suggesting to his own lawyers, hey, we can just, you know, you know, put this stuff to the side and say we don't have it. And those lawyers, by the way, one of those lawyers talked about those conversations in tape recordings every day, like a little personal diary. And those recordings would have come out at a trial.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you hear these recordings?

[Jonathan Karl]

I didn't actually hear those recordings.

[Stephen Colbert]

How do you know all this stuff?

[Jonathan Karl]

But I, you know, look, I spent a lot of time investigating and reporting on what Jack Smith was up to. And there is a lot more, a lot more. And I, and I tried to. He didn't get to do his reports publicly, but I put as much of it as I could find out in this book.

[Stephen Colbert]

Now, while reporting on the Department of justice, you obtained January 6th evidence that was never presented in court nor published. This is Mike Pence's handwritten notes from January 6th. It says all kinds of things here about, like, Trump saying, you'll go down in history as a wimp, you know, you're listening to the wrong people, that sort of thing. What did you. No one had seen this.

[Jonathan Karl]

It's amazing.

[Stephen Colbert]

And how did you feel when you saw this for the first time?

[Jonathan Karl]

I mean, I wrote a book about January 6th, and I hadn't seen this. The January 6th committee had investigated, you know, primetime hearings, hours after hours, and they hadn't seen this thing. This is extraordinary because Mike Pence is about to go to the Capitol to preside over the certification of the election. And Trump is calling him at 10 o' clock in the morning and berating him and telling him you have to overturn the election. And he doesn't usually take notes on his calls. With Trump, there's no evidence he's on it before, but he grabs his Daytimer. I mean, this is his calendar.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Wednesday, January 6th.

[Jonathan Karl]

It's right there. And by the way, there's a quote from Herman Melville here. That's quite something. He says, we cannot live only for ourselves. That's the quote of the day. But you see him just detailing the ways in which Trump is basically threatening him and telling him, you have to do this. And right on this you see a little, what looks like a little emoji of an angry face.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's a little, it's a little. That's a very accurate picture of Trump.

[Jonathan Karl]

I mean, Pence was a cartoonist, by the way. He was. This is part of his biography. You probably didn't know that.

[Stephen Colbert]

I did not know or care.

[Jonathan Karl]

Okay, well, there you go. I try to be helpful.

[Stephen Colbert]

How did you get this?

[Jonathan Karl]

I mean, I can't really detail how I got this.

[Stephen Colbert]

Let's move on.

[Jonathan Karl]

Another question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

How did you get this? I'll do a different. How did you get this?

[Jonathan Karl]

I will say that I worked with an awesome reporter at ABC named Katherine Falders who was a big help in all.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, this is your fourth book about President Trump and his administration. What's your relationship with him like?

[Jonathan Karl]

Well, it's funny you should ask. So one of my daughters here tonight put together a little list just the other day of some of the things Trump has called me. And I didn't realize this. Do you mind if I go through?

[Stephen Colbert]

Please, no, please.

[Jonathan Karl]

So he's called me a third rate reporter, a real scumbag, a lightweight. He said, don't be a cutie pie. He's called me a nasty guy. He has said that the Justice Department might go after me because I have hate in my heart, that I'm not a wonderful person, a terrible reporter. He asked what the hell happened to his hair. He's called me a phony, a wise guy, really obnoxious, a hack. He said, you're never going to make it, that I'm a real disgrace. And my favorite, he said of me, he works so hard but has so little talent. So the relationship is, you know, it's good. I mean, I'm covering, you know.

[Stephen Colbert]

And your daughter keeps track of that.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Stephen Colbert]

You raised her right. Jonathan, good to see you. Thanks so much for staying here. The book Retribution is available now. Jonathan, Carl, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

[Jonathan Karl]

You think you understand how this business works, but you don't.

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[Jonathan Karl]

You have to know the rules of the game and bend them. And you really have to know them to break them.

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Demi Moore.

[Stephen Colbert]

I want success. Get it for me.

[Paramount Plus Promo Voice]

Andy Garcia, Ali larder and Sam Elliott.

[Stephen Colbert]

You don't even know the game you're playing, do you?

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Landman new season streaming November 16th only on Paramount Plus. Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

[Narrator or Voiceover for Paramount Plus Promo]

Brandon was the full package.

[Stephen Colbert]

I felt like I met my guy.

[Jonathan Karl]

Just stop, stop, stop talking.

[Sponsor Representative or Ad Voice]

God.

[Narrator or Voiceover for Paramount Plus Promo]

But he's not even close to the person that I thought he was. When you do break up with Brandon, that is when the stalking begins. I just knew something horrific was about to happen. I saw the devil in his eyes.

[Stephen Colbert]

We're going to tell everyone what he did.

[Paramount Plus Promo Voice]

Don't date Brandon. Now streaming on paramount plus.