Journalist Jacob Soboroff

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert – Episode Featuring Journalist Jacob Soboroff

Episode Information

• Title: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert
• Host: Stephen Colbert (CBS)
• Guest: Jacob Soboroff, NBC News Correspondent and Author
• Release Date: February 3, 2025
• Episode Focus: Discussion on Soboroff's bestselling book Separated, and the accompanying documentary by Errol Morris, which delves into the tragic family separation policies at the U.S. southern border.

---

Introduction and Background

In this episode, Stephen Colbert welcomes back Jacob Soboroff, an esteemed NBC News correspondent, renowned for his investigative reporting and his bestselling book, Separated. The conversation centers around the documentary adaptation of Soboroff's work, directed by Academy Award-winning filmmaker Errol Morris, which scrutinizes the U.S. government's family separation policy at the southern border.

Jacob Soboroff’s Experience and Reporting

Jacob Soboroff begins by sharing personal insights into his reporting from Los Angeles during the devastating wildfires that razed his childhood home. At [02:40], Colbert acknowledges Soboroff's experience:

Stephen Colbert: "You live in Los Angeles and covering the Los Angeles wildfires, which unfortunately burned down your childhood home."

Soboroff responds with empathy, discussing the emotional toll on his family and the broader community:

Jacob Soboroff: "I think that it's going to be a long time to recover from this and we're gonna need all the help that we can get."

Exploring Separated and the Documentary

The discussion shifts to Soboroff’s book and the documentary. Colbert praises Errol Morris’s unique filmmaking style, particularly his ability to delve into the subjects' souls through direct eye contact:

Stephen Colbert: "Errol Morris ... is one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. He’s looking right into their eyes when he's interviewing them."

Soboroff highlights the documentary's focus on individuals like Jonathan White from the Office of Refugee Resettlement, who reveal the intent behind the policies:

Jacob Soboroff: "The film paints a picture of the chilling crime perpetuated by the Trump administration in the past, and it warns that can happen again in the future."

Colbert emphasizes the deliberate nature of the family separation policy under Trump, contrasting it with previous administrations:

Stephen Colbert: "Trump uniquely did it on purpose, and he did it to hurt the kids."

Historical Context of U.S. Immigration Policies

The conversation provides a historical overview of U.S. immigration enforcement, tracing policies from the Reagan administration to Barack Obama:

Stephen Colbert: "Bill Clinton built the first wave of border walls... George W. Bush exponentially increased the size of the Border Patrol... Barack Obama deported more people than any president in the history of the United States."

Soboroff questions the absence of honest dialogue on immigration reform:

Jacob Soboroff: "Why will no one actually address our immigration policy in an honest way?"

Colbert responds by critiquing the bipartisan reliance on deterrence strategies, arguing their ineffectiveness:

Stephen Colbert: "Deterrence doesn't work. If it worked, people would stop coming to this country."

Current Immigration Policies and Future Concerns

Addressing current policies, Colbert warns of a potential resurgence of aggressive immigration enforcement:

Stephen Colbert: "Mass deportation is family separation by another name... there is nothing to stop them."

Soboroff references recent ProPublica reports on family separation under the Biden administration, to which Colbert clarifies the distinction:

Stephen Colbert: "Family separation has happened in the U.S. immigration enforcement system for a very long time... But Trump uniquely did it on purpose."

The dialogue underscores the urgent need for comprehensive immigration reform to prevent future atrocities:

Stephen Colbert: "It is time for a new approach."

Call to Action and Conclusion

Towards the end of the episode, Colbert lauds Soboroff and the documentary for their courageous work in exposing governmental malpractices:

Stephen Colbert: "Safety spoke out in this film about whether or not this could happen again. He's a hero in my book, Jim."

Jim, presumably a co-host or assistant, adds:

Jim: "There have to be laws to constrain them. So the other architect of family separation is the United States Congress, which has failed."

Colbert and Soboroff conclude with a sober reminder of the stakes involved and the necessity for legislative action to safeguard families from such separations in the future.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [02:07] Stephen Colbert: "And usually I say, we're brothers. Wow. And then they look at me and then I walk away."
• [08:00] Jacob Soboroff: "Jonathan White is a career official who's still in the government today."
• [10:05] Stephen Colbert: "Trump uniquely did it on purpose, and he did it to hurt the kids."
• [12:00] Stephen Colbert: "Family separation has happened in the U.S. immigration enforcement system for a very long time..."
• [13:50] Stephen Colbert: "Nothing to stop them. Thank you."

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert offers a profound exploration of the harrowing impacts of U.S. immigration policies on families, particularly through the lens of Jacob Soboroff's investigative work. Colbert and Soboroff engage in a compelling dialogue that not only recounts past and present policies but also serves as a clarion call for meaningful immigration reform to prevent the recurrence of such human rights violations. The inclusion of expert insights and emotional narratives makes this episode a must-listen for those seeking to understand the complexities and human costs of immigration enforcement in America.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] switch.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

$45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees. Extra speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details.

[Michelle Yeoh]

On January 24, Academy Award winner Michelle Yeoh takes command.

[Star Trek Character]

Gather your people. We're gonna need every one of them.

[Michelle Yeoh]

In Section 31, a new Star Trek original movie on Paramount.

[Star Trek Character]

Section 31 is just a place for people to bend the rules.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Starfleet is here to make sure no one commits murder.

[Star Trek Character]

What a cute idea. This is chaos. Let's get messy.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Don't miss the worldwide premiere of Star Section 31, streaming January 24, exclusively on Paramount.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's the Late Show Pont show with Stephen Colbert.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Hey. Welcome back, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, please have a seat, my friends. My next guest is a correspondent for NBC News whose bestselling book, separated, about family separation at our southern border, has just been turned into a new documentary. Please welcome back to the Late Show, Jacob Suburov.

[Stephen Colbert]

How you doing?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Good to see you again.

[Stephen Colbert]

Good to see you. Thanks for having me back.

[Jacob Soboroff]

I found out something right before you came out here.

[Stephen Colbert]

Tell me.

[Jacob Soboroff]

I wanna fact check this. Cause you know, we're all about accuracy here at the Late Show.

[Stephen Colbert]

Me too.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Is this true? I hear you get asked about me when you're reporting for the Today Show. Like when you're out on the street with the folks.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes, yes, this is true. I fill in occasionally on the Today Show. And, you know, a couple blocks away and we go down the plaza at 30 Rock, you meet a lot of people. And oftentimes people will say to me, has anybody. Has anybody ever told you you look like Stephen Colbert?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

And usually I say, we're brothers. Wow. And then they look at me and then I walk away.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

So thank you. It's a great honor.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You know what? I kind of do look like your younger brother.

[Stephen Colbert]

I will. Yes, you do. Yes, you do.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You, me and J.J. abrams.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's very J.J. yes.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You've been busy lately. You live in Los Angeles.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[Jacob Soboroff]

And covering the Los Angeles wildfires, which unfortunately burned down your childhood home.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, they did. They did.

[Jacob Soboroff]

How is your family doing up there?

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you for asking. They're okay. My brother and my sister in law lost the home that they live in.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Stephen Colbert]

And thanks. And everybody's got a story. We're talking about tens of thousands of people who have been displaced. But yeah, I grew up in Pacific Palisades. It was a crazy experience to be there. And I'm thinking about the people in Altadena too. I mean, the idea that so many people could lose their homes so quickly in such a. It was a literal firestorm. That's what it was.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Here you are, you are in the Pacific Palisades reporting on it for NBC. Well, it seemed from a distance, it seemed surreal. What was it like to be there?

[Stephen Colbert]

It's my hometown, you know, a firestorm of 100 miles an hour winds combined with these wildfires is something that we've never seen before. And it's not, I've never felt it. But to be home in particular was really unique because you go home, you go home at the end of the night and you're there with your family. My wife is home, everything's fine. My children are home. Yeah, they're okay. My kids are confused. You know, you showed that. They thought. My daughter thought I was a firefighter in that yellow jacket. I had to explain to her, no, those are the heroes. I'm just there to tell people what they're doing. I don't know. You know, I think that it's going to be a long time to recover from this and we're gonna need all the help that we can get. And we're need help from President Trump, from Governor Newsom, from the local level.

[Jacob Soboroff]

What's the status right now? Like, are there still fires burning?

[Stephen Colbert]

The fires are out, thank God for the most part. I mean, you know, we're talking about containment. We're way up there near 100%. We had rain last week for the first time in a very, very long time. And.

[Jacob Soboroff]

It gives you some sense of how weird our world weather is right now that people are applauding for rain.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is that the first applause for rain?

[Jacob Soboroff]

That's the first I've heard so far.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes. But we needed it. We needed it. And those were the conditions that you know, to be so dry. Six months of complete bone dryness after two years of some rain and a lot of vegetation. It's what caused these fires. And a lot of people talk about this shouldn't have happened, it can't happen again. It's gonna happen again. We live amongst nature in a place like Southern California. And the idea that we can prevent this from happening with climate change, with all of us living nestled up against Santa Monica Mountains or in the case of hurricanes in Florida, you know, down by the coast, it's unavoidable. And so we just have to do the best we can to prepare again.

[Jacob Soboroff]

We have to take a quick break. We're right back with more Jacob Souborov. Everybody stick.

[Michelle Yeoh]

On January 24, Academy Award winner Michelle Yeoh takes command.

[Star Trek Character]

Gather your people. We're gonna need every one of them.

[Michelle Yeoh]

In Section 31, a new Star Trek original movie on Paramount.

[Star Trek Character]

Plus, Section 31 is just a place for people to bend their rules.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Starfleet is here to make sure no one commits murder.

[Star Trek Character]

What a cute idea. This is chaos. Let's get messy.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Don't miss the worldwide premiere of Star Trek Section 30, streaming January 24th, exclusively on Paramount. Plus.

[Jacob Soboroff]

We'Re back with the author of Separated, Jacob Soborough. The last time you were here was in September of 2020, and we weren't even talking in person because I was in a storage room on the eighth floor still in the grips of COVID isolation. At the time.

[Stephen Colbert]

I was in my laundry room at home.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Oh, it was very nice. It played well on camera.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you.

[Jacob Soboroff]

And you were there for your book now in paperback, called Separated. It's a New York Times bestseller about Trump's child separation policy at the southern border. Now, the book is a documentary by the Academy Award winning director, Errol Morris.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[Jacob Soboroff]

And what new light does Morris documentary shed on this absolutely tragic story?

[Stephen Colbert]

There is no filmmaker like Errol Morris. He is one of the greatest filmmakers, not just one of the greatest living filmmakers, one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. And what he does is, you know, I think look into the soul of people when he uses this famous device in Terratron. You know, he's looking right into their eyes when he's interviewing them. And he talked to people that I never have and probably never could. There's a guy by the name of Jonathan White who was in the Office of Refugee Resettlement. You hear from these people for the first time. I think that there was a lot of controversy over whether the cruelty was the point. You remember, Adam Ster famously coined that phrase.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Well, just go back one step and just remind people what it was that was happening.

[Stephen Colbert]

Don't take it from me, take it from the Republican appointed judge who stopped the policy, who called it one of the most shameful chapters in the history of the country, a deliberate and systematic separation. And you were so amazing at the time, speaking out against this of 5,500 children from their parents for no other reason than to harm them, to hurt them, to scare other people from coming to the country. Physicians for Human Rights called it torture, and the American Academy of Pediatrics called it government sanctioned child abuse. It never had happened before and it hasn't happened since. And they knew exactly what they were doing. And so what Errol did was, I think, make it crystal clear, like it has never been done before, that the harm to children was the point. Do you hear it from people?

[Jacob Soboroff]

John Kelly says it. Yeah, when he's talking about this. He says that this is a deterrent, so that cruelty is actually the point.

[Stephen Colbert]

They knew exactly what they were doing, and they can explain it away any which way they want. But the fact of the matter is, you look at the emails in the film, you hear from people like Jonathan White who will say directly harm to children was the intention. And, you know, my fear is that perhaps that this could happen again with this talk of all this mass deportation.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Well, the film paints a picture of the. The chilling crime perpetuated by the Trump administration in the past, and it warns that can happen again in the future. Well, I assume this was being made before the second Trump administration.

[Stephen Colbert]

We had no idea.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Okay, what's happening right now?

[Stephen Colbert]

They're talking about mass deportation. I reported from the floor of the Republican Convention, they held up, literally held up signs saying mass deportation. Now, they have based their program off of DWIGHT D. Eisenhower's 1954 program with the name so racist. I'm not gonna say it here. I never say it. That deported not only a million Mexicans, but some Mexican Americans as well. I heard you talking about American citizens already getting caught up in the dragnet when you talk about mass deportation. Translation, Mass deportation is family separation by another name. It's not ripping apart children away from their parents at the border, but it's immigration enforcement officials going into the interior and taking parents away from their children.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Children who go to school terrified that when they come home, their parents will.

[Stephen Colbert]

Be gone, go to school, go to church. And now there's directives that these agents can go inside these sensitive locations, new as of this administration in order to conduct these immigration raids. And so we're talking about a family separation of another order of magnitude. 20 million people or so live in a home with an undocumented immigrant. Maybe there's 4 million children of undocumented parents that are U.S. citizens living in this country. And what they say is, either get out of the country if you're a US Citizen, kid, and Your parents deported, or we're going to have family separation all over again. They have not made that a secret.

[Jacob Soboroff]

ProPublica reported that the Biden administration did have some family separation. What do they mean by that?

[Stephen Colbert]

Family separation has happened in the U.S. immigration enforcement system for a very long time, but when it happened before and when it's happened subsequent to the Trump administration policy, it's always been done to protect the interests of the child or for some type of national security interest. I'm not saying that all of these separations are kosher, but none of them were deliberate, systematic separations intended to harm children as a tool of immigration policy.

[Jacob Soboroff]

So it wasn't deterrence through cruelty.

[Stephen Colbert]

That was not the intention. That was not the goal. I'm not saying that separations don't harm families. All of them do. But Trump uniquely did it on purpose, and he did it to hurt the kids.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Why will no one actually address our immigration policy in an honest. Why can't that happen? The last place this happened was. And I'm not saying whether it's a right thing or wrong thing, but at least the Reagan administration had some courage and they had an amnesty policy. They provided amnesty for people on a path towards citizenship, and they made Congress pass it.

[Stephen Colbert]

They did. And I think because deterrence has been the bipartisan policy of the United States government for the better part of a generation. Bill Clinton built the first wave of border walls, knowing that people would die trying to come into the country going around them. George W. Bush exponentially increased the size of the Border Patrol in the wake of 9 11, when they created the Department of Homeland Security. Barack Obama deported more people than any president in the history of the United States of America. Which is why, like that, Barack ob, Donald Trump could separate these children almost immediately. And Joe Biden promised a departure from that system, a fair, safe, humane, and orderly system. But really what they ended up doing is lean into these aggressive policies in order to. To scare people away. They think it works. And let me just tell you, deterrence doesn't work. If it worked, people would stop coming to this country. And people still are leaving desperate circumstances from all around the world for a better life in the United States of America. It is. It's time for a new approach.

[Jacob Soboroff]

We have a clip here. What are we about to see?

[Stephen Colbert]

This is. This is Jonathan White. I mentioned him earlier.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Jonathan White.

[Stephen Colbert]

Jonathan White is a career official who's still in the government today.

[Michelle Yeoh]

On January 24, Academy Award winner Michelle Yeoh takes command.

[Star Trek Character]

Gather your people. We're gonna need every one of them.

[Michelle Yeoh]

In Section 31, a new Star Trek original movie on Paramount.

[Star Trek Character]

Section 31 is just a place for people to bend the rules.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Starfleet is here to make sure no one commits murder.

[Star Trek Character]

What a cute idea. This is chaos. Let's get messy.

[Michelle Yeoh]

Don't miss the worldwide premiere of Star Trek Section 31, streaming January 24, exclusively on Paramount.

[Stephen Colbert]

And to great risk to his own career, Safety spoke out in this film about whether or not this could happen again. He's a hero in my book, Jim.

[Jim]

There will always be people who hate immigrants. There will always be people motivated to use cruelty as a tool of immigration policy. But there have to be laws to constrain them. So the other architect of family separation is the United States Congress, which has failed, despite numerous displays of moral histrionics that I remember very well from my nine times testifying before Congress has not passed that law. So if in a future administration there are political appointees who want to do it, there is really nothing to stop them.

[Stephen Colbert]

Nothing to stop them. Thank you.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Thank you, Jacob.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thanks for everything you're doing. Appreciate you.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Thank you. You can see Jacob on NBC News. You can get the books separated wherever you buy your books. And you can watch Separated on Demand wherever you rent or purchase films. Jacob Sulbourov, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.