Karine Jean-Pierre

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert
Episode: Karine Jean-Pierre
Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Stephen Colbert
Guest: Karine Jean-Pierre (Former White House Press Secretary, Author of "Independent")

---

Brief Overview

This episode features an in-depth and candid conversation between Stephen Colbert and Karine Jean-Pierre, former White House Press Secretary under President Joe Biden. Jean-Pierre discusses her recent decision to leave the Democratic Party, the motivation behind her new book "Independent," her perspective on the current state of American democracy, and the challenges within the two-party system. The discussion is both reflective and urgent, touching on leadership failures, political identity, and hopes for democratic renewal.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Transition from Public to Private Figure

• Independence and voice:
  • Colbert asks about the difference between speaking for herself and as the press secretary.
    • "Do you enjoy the freedom?" (04:27)
  • Jean-Pierre expresses gratitude for her public service but welcomes private life:
    • Karine Jean-Pierre (04:33):

      "It was and will always be an honor and a privilege to have been White House Press Secretary. I was number 35. But it is also nice to step away and be a private citizen and not having to be in the briefing room."

2. Leaving the Democratic Party & Book Motives

• New book "Independent":
  • Central theme: Political disenchantment and why she became an Independent.
    • Karine Jean-Pierre (05:33):

      "I'm not telling everybody to be an independent. I am...trying to start a conversation...Right now the two-party system is not working."

• Goal:
  • Not pushing for a third party, but fostering critical dialogue about the shortcomings of current political parties.

3. Critique of Democratic Leadership

• Dissatisfaction and lack of fight:
  • Jean-Pierre shares personal anecdotes of encountering disillusioned voters seeking more from Democratic leaders.
    • Karine Jean-Pierre (06:00):

      "I don't think there's any teeth. There's no fight, there's no where's the soul."

  • The book aims to offer a "roadmap" for re-engagement and reform.

4. Big Tent Party and Representation

• Broadening appeal:
  • Colbert and Jean-Pierre discuss how figures like Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Zorhan Mamdani energize the base, but current leadership is out of touch.
    • Karine Jean-Pierre (07:36):

      "The Democratic Party needs to be a big tent party...what's happening with the leadership...they're actually throwing people under the bus who are vulnerable and need protection. As a Black woman...we get forgotten and...the party does not see us.”

  • Emphasizes her desire to spark a challenging but necessary conversation.
    • "We are under attack. Our democracy is slipping through our fingers..." (08:00)

5. 2024 Election Fallout

• Voter turnout and party struggles:
  • Colbert references plummeting polls, the change in candidate mid-summer, and why voters stayed home.
  • Jean-Pierre agrees millions stayed home, another sign of dissatisfaction.

6. Democratic Party’s Response to Biden

• Personal perspective on the Biden transition:
  • Jean-Pierre alleges the Party "betrayed" Biden during the crisis after his debate performance.
    • Karine Jean-Pierre (09:35):

      "...the attack on this man who, you know, by objectively had a good three years...I had never seen this visceral reaction."

• Colbert’s perspective:
  • Suggests the shift was emotional and based on concerns about Biden’s abilities after his debate showing, not malice.
    • Stephen Colbert (11:34):

      "I don't think anybody questioned his heart or his policies. But...in a moment of great pressure on stage, we saw someone shock us and worry us, and nothing could assuage that worry."

7. Jean-Pierre’s Closing Thoughts

• Urgency and hope:
  • Jean-Pierre ends on a grave but hopeful note—democracy as an experiment under threat, needing active daily defense.
    • Karine Jean-Pierre (12:54):

      "This is an experiment, our democracy. This is an experiment that we're in and if we do not fight for it every day, we will lose it. And that is my concern."

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On leaving her party:

  "I'm trying to start a conversation. I'm not saying that we need a third party. I am saying that right now the two party system is not working."
  — Karine Jean-Pierre (05:33)

• On Democratic leadership:

  "There's no fight, there's no where's the soul."
  — Karine Jean-Pierre (06:00)

• On political disillusionment:

  "We are under attack. Our democracy is slipping through our fingers, and this is the time."
  — Karine Jean-Pierre (08:00)

• On Biden’s debate and aftermath:

  "I saw every day a really ugly assault on someone who had 50 plus years of experience and who again, objectively had done a good job as President of the United States. And it was heartbreaking to see that."
  — Karine Jean-Pierre (11:59)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Transition from Press Secretary to Author: 04:19–04:52
• Why She Left the Democratic Party: 05:14–05:50
• Failures of Leadership and Roadmap to Engagement: 05:50–06:59
• Discussion on Big Tent and Representing the Base: 07:06–08:00
• Voter Turnout and 2024 Election Issues: 09:07–09:23
• Jean-Pierre on Biden and the Party’s Response: 09:23–11:34
• Colbert Challenges Jean-Pierre’s Assessment: 11:34–12:17
• On Democracy’s Fragility and Call to Action: 12:54–13:21

---

Episode Tone & Style

• Lively, direct, and respectful debate.
• Jean-Pierre is candid, occasionally emotional, and deeply personal in her reflections.
• Colbert brings both humor and seriousness, pressing for clarity and challenging Jean-Pierre while allowing ample space for her perspective.

---

This episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert offers a rare, unfiltered look at major ideological rifts in American politics as told by a key political insider, with pressing questions—and warnings—for anyone concerned about the future of democracy.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, everybody. Stephen Colbert here about to read the copy for our sponsor. This is from our friends at Wonderful Pistachios. And I was the wonderful pistachio spokesman for years. Yeah, I have a real close association with nut meat. Okay. You know what they say when they reach for a snack? Don't hold back. And that's exactly the approach with Wonderful Pistachios. The don't hold back snack. These little wonders are so tasty, it feels like getting away with something. But surprise. Each serving has 6 grams of protein and 0 grams of regret. That's right. No guilt. Just glory, glory in our nuts. Whether it's a satisfying crack of in shell pistachios, and that's capitalized in shell, or the smooth, instant gratification of no shells. No judgment. That's just it. Just eat. No judgment. I take issue with one thing. It's instant gratification. It's super tasty smooth.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

It's a hard nut smooth.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. I mean, even out of the shell, it's still a nut.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

We can't disparage the nuts.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

You.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

I'm not disparaging the nut.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm describing the nut.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

Don't disparage any flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not. I am celebrating the pistachio right now.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

I'm on board.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love pistachios.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I love.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love crushed pistachio. Like a pistachio crusted trout. Oh, unbelievable. Instead of a trout amandine, a trout pistachio.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Fantastic.

[Stephen Colbert]

Enough butter? Who cares?

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

Very good.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I love pistachio ice cream.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

Have you had the sea salt and vinegar? Wonderful pistachio. It's delicious. I get them.

[Stephen Colbert]

I didn't even know I get them.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

Before the softball games.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

But that's.

[Stephen Colbert]

You see, it's been a while since I've been the spokesman for wonderful pistachios. I didn't realize we'd achieved new pistachio technology.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Wow.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wonderful pistachios has every snack style covered. Right now. There's an obsession with jalapeno lime. There is an obsession session. It's almost a disorder. It's spicy, it's zesty. It's basically a flavor roller coaster in a nut. Snacking on the go. Grab a bag of no shells. Feeling contemplative and want to work for it a little. So earning it, they're saying if you want to earn your nut, crack open those in shell beauties. Either way, it's snacking like a champ. So the next time hunger strikes, don't hold back. Unless it's a hunger strike. And Then it's important that you do. Because whatever you're doing that for, I'm sure it's a worthwhile cause. Snack like you mean it with wonderful pistachios. Visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

That was a wonderful.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wonder what more there is to learn. We just told them so much. We just told them so much about pistachios. But evidently there's a whole other world. There's an unexplored vista.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

They got a bunch of flavors. They got dill pickle, jalapeno lime, as we learned, smoky barbecue. There's a lot of different flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. And I would not disparage any of them.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

No, no, no.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bring it on.

[Guest 1 (Pistachio Enthusiast)]

Nothing bad to say.

[Stephen Colbert]

Nut me, nut. Nut me with nut meat.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

We're nut.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, we got nothing but nut. Nutty, nutty, nutty, nutty. Talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about nutty. Good.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Are you playing me off?

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer, first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes cementmobile.com it's the late Show Poncho with Stephen Colbert.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Ladies and gentlemen. My next guest served as the White House Press Secretary for President Joe Biden. Her new book is called Independent. Please welcome back to the Late Show. Karine Jean Pierre. Nice to see you again.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Good to see you.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

This isn't the first time I've been able to interview, but the last time you were here, you were speaking on behalf of the President. Now you just speak for yourself.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Yes, that's true.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Is that an improvement? Do you enjoy the freedom. Do you enjoy the freedom of.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

That I will say this. It was and will always be an honor and a privilege to have been White House Press secretary. I was number 35. But it is also nice to step away and be a private citizen and not having to be in the briefing room.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Do you watch any of the briefings these days?

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I don't.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Oh, you should check it out.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'll send you some.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

So your band is amazing, by the way.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

They are a wonderful band, aren't they? The new book is Called Independent. And it's about your decision to leave the Democratic Party this past summer.

[Stephen Colbert]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

June or you told us in June or something.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

No, this. Yes, you're right. I forgot. We're in the phone.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Thank you.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

That's right. Yes. You're on top of things.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

We read your book here.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Yes.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

June of this year, do you recommend everyone leave the party? And if so, where do they go? Because organization is how you face tyranny. Freelancing isn't gonna get anybody anything done.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

So here's the thing. I'm not telling everybody to be an independent. I am telling. I'm trying to start a conversation. I'm not saying that we need a third party. I am saying that right now the two party system is not working.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

A lot of people are dissatisfied. A lot of Democrats or people who identify as Democrats are dissatisfied with the party right now. Where do you think the major failures, what are they not doing?

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Well right now in this moment, which is why I actually wrote the book, to give people a roadmap. I don't think there's any teeth. There's no fight, there's no where's the soul. And when I left the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party, when I left the administration this year, on January 20th of this year, I was just minding my business, going to the supermarket, going to pick up my kid, going to the coffee shop. And people would come up to me in tears, most of them, and would say to me, what's happening? Why is the Democratic leadership not fighting what's happening? We need more. How are we going to get out of this? And I talk about that in the book. And that's what created for me an opportunity as a private citizen now to say, okay, how do we focus on where we are today? How do we move forward and what's a roadmap that people can follow to get engaged? I think it's really important to get involved and to get engaged. And that's what this book is about.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Well, what I mean, let's talk about the Democrats who are getting people excited. Like Bernie Sanders gets people excited. He's a Democratic Socialist.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I was about to say aoc. He's an independent.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Aoc. She's a Democratic socialist. Zorhan Mamdani, Democratic Socialist.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Doesn't that say that there are fundamental needs of the working class in America that are not being addressed by either party and if they don't change their ways, they're going to cut themselves off at the knees by toting to special interests in corporations?

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Totally agree.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Both. Okay, go ahead.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

No, you're speaking. You're speaking my language. No, no, no. Here's the thing. The Democratic Party needs to be a big tent party. The big tent party that I loved and appreciated and felt seen in. And what's happening. You just mentioned three people who are, you know, Democratic Socialist independents who are very much exciting people. But what's happening with the leadership, more of the leadership, Democratic Party side of things? They're actually throwing people under the bus who are vulnerable and need protection. As a black woman who has walked through the walls of the White House and been part of this party for a very long time, I believe, and this is my personal opinion, that we get forgotten and that by large part, the democr does not see us. And for me, for me, especially in this past year, I needed to make a statement and to make a point. I'm trying to start a conversation. People are not gonna agree with me. People are going to disagree. People are gonna want. And I'm hoping that they're gonna want to have a conversation with me about my decision, because we are under attack. Our democracy is slipping through our fingers, and this is the time. This is the time I believe that we need to have conversations like this because we have to do better. Millions of people who voted in 2022, in 2020 for the Biden Harris ticket did not come out in 2024. We have to figure out why. What happened there? They focused on the.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Well, there was a dramatic change in the middle of the summer as to who the candidate was going to be. Yes, it was not looking good. The polls were not looking good for Joe Biden, which you know. And they. And Kamala Harris also lost, which we all know.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Right.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

And I want to get to the point.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I'm feeling that now.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Yes. You said one of the reasons you left the party was because they're not fighting enough today. But also, you believe that the Democratic Party betrayed Joe Biden.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I do.

[Stephen Colbert]

In.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

In what way?

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

The way in that three weeks where the debate happened and he decided to step down and pass the baton over to Vice President Kamala Harris, who I think did a phenomenal job running her campaign, and she should get credit for that. Now, you gotta remember this is very personal to me because I was at the podium almost every day talking about this, and I had never seen this visceral reaction and the attack on this man who, you know, by objectively had a good three years. When you think about the economy. Right. When you think about how he responded to Covid, the student loan I mean, you name it. Expanding healthcare.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Just jump in here. Yeah, yeah. It was very personal to those of us who watched it, too, because it was a shock to our system to see that, because, I mean, you're talking to a guy who helped raise $25 million for Joe Biden in March of that same year and three months later.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

Thank you for that.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Thank you for doing that. I saw a guy who I had not seen backstage at the benefit that I did. It seemed like a dramatically different person. And at 81 years old, that's not entirely unexpected. You can imagine why people got so worried.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

So, a couple of things. I got to see Joe Biden almost every day. And this is a question that I take very seriously. I never. No one has ever said, he has an age. No one ever said that. He would make jokes about it, he would acknowledge it, and he would say, yes, I know I don't speak as well as I used to. I don't walk as well as I used to. No one is saying that he didn't age. I'm talking about was he. Did he have the questions that I was getting, the mental acuity, was he able to govern? And the man that I saw nearly every day was someone who was engaging, understood policy and was always putting the American people first. And it showed. It showed in what we were not able to get done. I remember, I saw.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

I don't think anybody questioned his heart or his policies. But it takes more than that to be the President of the United States. And in a moment of great pressure on stage, we saw someone shock us and worry us, and nothing could assuage that worry. So I don't think it was necessarily a betrayal of Joe Biden as other people saying, we don't think we were shown the Joe Biden that you saw.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I saw every day a really ugly assault on someone who had 50 plus years of experience and who again, objectively had done a good job as President of the United States. And it was heartbreaking to see that.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Type of behavior, all of that, everything you're saying. I cannot fault the factual basis of what you're saying or your feelings about it. But what happened was the debate performance. Everything is downstream of that.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

And no one is saying that the debate performance wasn't shocking, wasn't a disappointment. No one is saying that the disappointment.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Is such a light.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I use your words.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

It was harrowing.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I use your words.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Okay, look, listen. We're never going to agree on this.

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

We're not.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

Other than the fact that I'm glad that you came here tonight and I appreciate it. And we need a wrap over there. Would you like to say one more thing before we go?

[Karine Jean-Pierre]

I do think that this is a moment, really, truly what this book is about for me is the moment that we're in and we have to continue to fight for our democracy and we have to do that every day. One thing that the president used to say is we are a very, this is an experiment, our democracy. This is an experiment that we're in and if we do not fight for it every day, we will lose it. And that is my concern. That is my, that's true.

[Stephen Colbert (Interviewer)]

The book Independent is available tomorrow. Karine Jean Pierre, everybody, thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.