The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: "Late Show Book Club | 'People Like Us'"
Date: October 13, 2025
Guest: Jason (best-selling author, National Book Award winner)
Host: Stephen Colbert

Overview

In this insightful and engaging episode, Stephen Colbert welcomes back Jason, celebrated author and National Book Award winner, to discuss his latest novel, People Like Us. The conversation delves into the novel’s origins, its relationship to Jason’s previous work, and its major themes, including American identity, grief, humor, gun culture, and the writing process. The episode blends literary analysis, personal anecdotes, and humor, capturing the thoughtful tone of both host and guest.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to People Like Us

• [01:39-01:54] Colbert introduces Jason, referencing his accolades and previous works.
• [01:54-02:05]
  • One Sentence Description:

    “It is the story of two authors, one traveling across the US, one traveling across Europe, discovering what America and belonging mean to them.”
    — Jason [01:54]

2. From Memoir to Metafiction

• [02:05-03:08]
  • Novel began as a memoir about touring after winning the National Book Award.
  • Shifted focus when Jason realized memoir writing wasn't for him.
  • Brought back two recurring characters from his previous novel, Helluva Book, to facilitate a "different conversation".

  • "I realized that I could use those two characters to have a different conversation than I did in the previous book… I had to have something new to discuss, and I did."
    — Jason [02:36]

3. Standalone Sequel

• [03:08-03:41]
  • The book is both a sequel to Helluva Book and a standalone story.

  • "I call it the standalone sequel, which makes no sense at all. But that’s kind of what I refer to it as."
    — Jason [03:17]

4. Writing after Winning Big

• [03:47-04:55]
  • Jason felt less pressure after his National Book Award win—felt it allowed him to write more freely.

  • “It’s kind of like you climb Everest. Like there is no Everest Part Two.”
    — Jason [04:07]

  • "For me, writing this next book was just my chance to have fun with the least amount of pressure I've ever had."
    — Jason [04:42]

5. Surreal, Mind-Bending Narrative & Reader Interpretation

• [04:55-05:44]
  • Jason enjoys leaving space for reader interpretation and ambiguity.

  • "I wanted to feel like that 2:00 AM you just woke up. You don't know where reality ends and the dream starts."
    — Jason [05:16]

  • Emphasis on emotional and psychological closure over narrative clarity.

6. Balancing Grief and Humor

• [05:44-07:03]
  • The novel moves fluidly from grief to humor, mirroring real life.

  • "I have the grief component. But I also realized that life is short and you should smile and laugh at things that you can smile and laugh at."
    — Jason [06:38]

  • Jason draws from personal loss, reflecting a worldview in which laughter and sadness coexist.

7. Exploring America — Critique & Love

• [07:03-08:13]
  • The novel is both critical and affectionate toward America.

  • "There are days and times and moments when I very deeply love this country, and there are days and times and moments when I just want to flee it as quickly as possible."
    — Jason [07:54]

  • Writing the book helped Jason better understand, though not always resolve, his own relationship with America.

8. Gun Culture in America

• [08:13-10:01]
  • Jason discusses the inescapable link between guns and American identity.

  • "I always find that freedom is one of the most nebulous, useless words that we have in our language."
    — Jason [08:33]

  • Personal anecdotes about growing up with guns, recognizing the complexity of being a gun owner who supports more regulation.
  • A powerful realization while abroad:

    "I didn't realize you could have a life that isn't listening for gunfire, because in America, you always are."
    — Jason [09:38]

9. The Single Book Dilemma

• [10:01-11:12]
  • If he could only bring one book while moving abroad:
    • Lord of the Flies by William Golding.
    • With two, adds Grendel by John Gardner.

  • "These are the two books that literally made me the writer that I am today."
    — Jason [10:49]

  • Re-reads Lord of the Flies every few years for inspiration.

10. Advice for Aspiring Writers

• [11:44-12:21]
  • Consistency is key.

  • "You have to give yourself permission to write badly... You can't say the thing if you don't say it badly first. So just accept that you're going to say it badly first."
    — Jason [12:07]

11. Best Writing Advice Received

• [12:21-13:18]
  • Stop imitating others and develop your own voice.

  • "You're not them. And that's not an insult, but you're just — you're not them. You're you. You should try to find the way that you want to write and you want to tell your story."
    — Jason [12:36]

  • People Like Us contains meta-jokes about the urge to imitate other writers.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It is the story of two authors...discovering what America and belonging mean to them.” — Jason [01:54]
• “It’s kind of like you climb Everest. Like there is no Everest Part Two.” — Jason [04:07]
• “I wanted to feel like that 2:00 AM you just woke up. You don't know where reality ends and the dream starts.” — Jason [05:16]
• “You have to give yourself permission to write badly.” — Jason [12:07]
• “You're not them... You're you.” — Jason [12:36]
• “[Freedom] is one of the most nebulous, useless words that we have in our language.” — Jason [08:33]
• “I didn't realize you could have a life that isn't listening for gunfire, because in America, you always are.” — Jason [09:38]
• On books that shaped him: "When I finished reading it, I felt like I was vibrating. And I remember thinking to myself, very vividly, I want to do this to someone else one day." — Jason [11:19]

Segment Timestamps

• [01:39] – Guest intro & People Like Us summary
• [02:05] – Memoir origins and shift to metafiction
• [03:08] – Sequels, character continuity, and accessibility
• [03:47] – Writing after the National Book Award
• [04:55] – Surrealism, reader interpretation, and closure
• [05:44] – Grief, humor, and the writing-life connection
• [07:03] – Critique and affection for America
• [08:13] – Gun culture and American identity
• [10:01] – Desert island books
• [11:44] – Advice for writers
• [12:21] – Voice and authenticity in writing

Final Notes

Jason’s conversation with Stephen Colbert offers a thought-provoking exploration not only of his latest novel but also the contemporary American experience, the complexity of writing after success, and the necessity of authenticity in creative work. The interview is candid, at times somber, and always laced with humor, making it both an enriching listen for book lovers and a valuable resource for aspiring writers.

For updates on future Late Show Book Club picks, follow @colbertlateshow on Instagram.