Podcast Summary: "Michael Lewis (Extended) | 'Who Is Government?'"

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert
Episode Release Date: April 11, 2025
Guest: Michael Lewis
Book Discussed: Who Is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service

Introduction

In this episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert, host Stephen Colbert welcomes acclaimed author Michael Lewis, renowned for his bestselling works such as Moneyball, The Blind Side, and The Big Short. Michael Lewis returns to discuss his latest book, Who Is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service, delving into the intricacies of federal work and the vital role of government employees.

“Always good to have you here. You explain stuff real good,” Colbert opens the conversation at [02:20], highlighting Lewis's ability to make complex subjects accessible.

Discussion on Tariffs and Economic Policies

The conversation kicks off with a discussion on the current administration's tariff policies, a topic Lewis is well-versed in given his background in covering Wall Street and the economy.

Stephen Colbert ([02:19]):
"You explain stuff real good. You can make any subject, you can lay it out like parts on a lawn and explain to us what all the parts mean."

Colbert questions Lewis about former President Trump's stance on tariffs, referencing Trump's claim that tariffs were "the most beautiful word in the English language" and whether Lewis believed Trump would follow through with his tariff policies.

Michael Lewis ([03:35]):
"Donald, his mind does not work like your mind or my mind. He's different... he frames everything as a zero-sum interaction... trade is a win-win kind of thing. And I think he sees, when he looks at the world, he sees, if you're getting something out of this, then it's coming out of my pocket." ([03:37])

Lewis expresses skepticism about the efficacy of Trump's tariff approach, emphasizing that economic experts generally view tariffs as detrimental. He criticizes Trump’s perception of trade as a zero-sum game, arguing that such policies undermine global trust and economic stability.

Notable Insight:
Lewis underscores the chaos introduced by Trump's policies, stating, "If I'm trying to predict what Donald Trump is going to do and where he's going to go... he tries to destroy trust in the world and these trusting relationships we have with friendly nations." ([04:04])

This segment highlights Lewis's critical view of the administration's economic strategies and the broader implications for international relations and domestic trust.

Exploring Who Is Government? and Public Service

Transitioning from economic policies, Colbert steers the conversation toward Lewis's new book, Who Is Government?, which seeks to illuminate the indispensable work of federal employees.

Stephen Colbert ([06:28]):
"First of all, what brought you to tell the untold story? I'm guessing that the reason why most people have not told the story is they didn't think it would be that exciting of a story, and neither did you."

Lewis explains that his motivation stemmed from the realization that federal workers perform crucial, often unnoticed tasks that keep the country running smoothly. He recounts his initial surprise at discovering the depth and significance of government operations.

Michael Lewis ([07:07]):
"Trump gets elected the first time. The day after he's elected, he fires the 550 person team, his transition team... it was like what are they not paying attention to? It was like, what does our government do?" ([07:27])

Lewis shares his experience in accessing detailed briefings on various government departments, which revealed the complex and essential functions that often go unappreciated.

Key Highlight:
Lewis emphasizes the dedication of federal employees, describing them as "mission driven, passionate, problem-solving people, experts who were there, who could have made a lot more money in the private sector" but chose public service instead. He narrates stories of individuals like Chris Mark, who innovated safety measures for coal miners, and Arthur A. Allen, an oceanographer whose work has saved countless lives ([09:03] - [10:28]).

The Impact of Government Cuts and Policy Changes

The discussion shifts to the current administration's efforts to reduce government size and budget, raising concerns about the ramifications of these cuts.

Michael Lewis ([11:23]):
"The government is also a portfolio of risks. They're managing all kinds of risks, a lot of them very long term risks... the risk of really bad things, a lot of really bad things happening, measles outbreaks, coal mines, roofs falling on the heads of coal miners... it's one thing after another that [the government] will just be managed less well." ([11:48])

Lewis warns that dismantling government functions compromises the nation's ability to handle both immediate and long-term challenges. He criticizes the firing of probationary workers—new federal employees who lack job protection—as a detrimental tactic that undermines the government's effectiveness and devalues public service.

Notable Quote:
"These people did meaningful work that protected us, that made our lives better. And that we have come after them. That we have allowed a politician to demonize them and traumatize them is such a damning statement about, like, the state of our soul." ([13:48])

Lewis passionately argues that undermining government employees not only hampers essential services but also reflects a moral failing in how society values public service and dedication.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Colbert expressing gratitude for Lewis’s insights, reinforcing the importance of appreciating and understanding the role of government workers.

Stephen Colbert ([13:54]):
"Michael, thank you for that."

Michael Lewis ([13:50]):
"Thank you."

Colbert wraps up by directing listeners to additional content on The Late Show YouTube channel, encouraging them to engage further with the show's material.

Key Takeaways

• Economic Policies: Lewis criticizes the Trump administration's tariff policies as misguided and harmful, emphasizing the importance of trust in international trade relationships.

• Public Service: Who Is Government? sheds light on the essential, yet often overlooked, work done by federal employees, portraying them as dedicated professionals committed to solving complex societal problems.

• Government Cuts: Reducing the size and budget of government poses significant risks, jeopardizing the nation's ability to manage critical and long-term issues effectively.

• Moral Reflection: Undermining public service workers reflects a deeper societal and moral crisis, highlighting the need to value and support those who work tirelessly to maintain and improve public welfare.

This episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert offers a profound exploration of government functionality and the indispensable role of public servants, urging listeners to recognize and support the backbone of national stability and progress.