Nick Cave (Extended) | Colbert Classic

Summary

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert Episode: Nick Cave (Extended) | Colbert Classic Release Date: January 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this extended episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert, host Stephen Colbert welcomes back the renowned musician and songwriter, Nick Cave, to discuss a range of deeply personal and artistic topics. Released on January 5, 2025, the episode delves into Cave's insights on music, creativity, grief, and his latest work.

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Reconnecting and Personal Encounters

The conversation begins with a light-hearted anecdote from Nick Cave about a previous encounter with Stephen Colbert in Reykjavik in 2019:

Nick Cave (01:29): "You don't know this, but we have been in proximity before. In Reykjavik in 2019, you were at a coffee shop, and me and my two boys, who at the time were 21 and 17, were right behind you..."

Colbert humorously acknowledges the resemblance:

Stephen Colbert (02:00): "I've been told that I look like Nick Cave."

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Exploring the Power of Music

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the transformative and transcendent power of music. Nick Cave expresses his reverence for music's magical ability:

Nick Cave (03:52): "Music is magical to me because it does what magic does. It causes an effect at a distance. It can reach inside and change your heart and change your mind without touching it." ([03:52])

Colbert echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the communal and sacred experience of live performances:

Stephen Colbert (04:02): "To stand on stage, to perform to people, is a genuinely transcendent opportunity."

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Creative Process and Artistic Evolution

The duo delves into Stephen Colbert's creative journey, particularly his evolution from a punk rock persona to a more refined artistic presence. Colbert reflects on his adversarial relationship with audiences in his early music days:

Stephen Colbert (05:27): "When I first started off making music, my relationship with the audience especially was extremely adversarial."

Nick Cave draws parallels with his own experiences, highlighting the universal challenges artists face:

Nick Cave (06:40): "Often there’s hostility toward the audience out of nervousness, out of anxiety, out of fear that you won't be accepted."

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A Memorable Collaboration with Johnny Cash

One of the most poignant moments of the episode is Stephen Colbert recounting his collaboration with the legendary Johnny Cash:

Stephen Colbert (07:27): "Johnny Cash is my hero... I got called into the studio by Rick Rubin to actually sing with Johnny Cash."

He describes the surreal and emotional encounter:

Stephen Colbert (08:11): "When he arrived, he was not well at all... It was an extraordinary moment."

This story underscores the profound impact of musical collaborations and the personal connections formed through art.

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Introducing "Wild God"

Nick Cave shifts the focus to Stephen Colbert's upcoming album, Wild God, released on August 30th:

Nick Cave (10:58): "How would you characterize this album?"

Colbert describes the album as a departure from his usual somber tones, presenting it as a "joyful, uplifting kind of record":

Stephen Colbert (11:19): "It's essentially a joyful, uplifting kind of record, which is quite different than the records I normally make."

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Confronting Grief and Finding Hope

A deeply moving segment addresses Stephen Colbert's personal experiences with grief, particularly the loss of his two sons. Nick Cave expresses his condolences and inquires about Colbert's coping mechanisms:

Nick Cave (12:26): "You've suffered profound loss over the last decade... What have you received from other people about the grief that you've experienced?"

Colbert shares his philosophy on grief, emphasizing the importance of communal support and turning outward rather than inward:

Stephen Colbert (15:26): "We must be able to turn ourselves the other way and look at the world and understand that we are part of the world and that the world is essentially full of people who have lost things."

He highlights the significance of small acts of kindness in healing:

Stephen Colbert (20:48): "It was really of what people did and the idea that people were there for me... there was this sort of dead silence... just squeezed my hand as she gave me back the money."

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The Red Hand Files Initiative

Colbert introduces his Red Hand Files, a platform for fans to ask questions about life's challenges. Nick Cave is intrigued and requests to hear one of the letters. Colbert reads a heartfelt message from Valerio of Stockholm, grappling with cynicism and fear of passing grief onto his son:

Valerio's Letter (20:52): "Do you still believe in us human beings?"

Colbert responds with a profound message of hope and resilience:

Stephen Colbert (21:08): "Hopefulness is the warrior emotion that can lay waste to cynicism... Each redemptive or loving act... keeps the devil down in the hole."

This exchange underscores the podcast's commitment to addressing real human emotions and fostering a sense of community among listeners.

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Concluding Reflections

As the episode wraps up, Colbert and Cave reflect on the universal nature of grief and the human capacity for joy even amidst loss. Nick Cave succinctly captures the essence of their discussion:

Nick Cave (19:34): "You have this other... it is part of being fully human."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert offers an intimate glimpse into the minds of two creative forces grappling with profound themes. Through personal anecdotes, philosophical discussions, and heartfelt exchanges, Colbert and Cave illuminate the enduring power of music, the complexities of grief, and the journey toward finding hope and joy.

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Key Takeaways:

• The Transformative Power of Music: Both hosts emphasize music's ability to create transcendent and communal experiences.
• Creative Evolution: Stephen Colbert discusses his journey from an adversarial punk rock persona to a more nuanced artist.
• Facing Grief: Colbert's openness about his personal losses highlights the importance of community and small acts of kindness in healing.
• Red Hand Files: An initiative to connect with listeners on deeply personal issues, fostering a supportive community.

Notable Quotes:

• "Music is magical to me because it does what magic does." — Nick Cave ([03:52])
• "Hopefulness is not a neutral position. It is adversarial." — Stephen Colbert ([21:08])

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For those interested in exploring more about Stephen Colbert and Nick Cave's discussions, additional content and clips are available on The Late Show YouTube channel.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

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[Nick Cave]

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[Nick Cave]

What do you know about the Lioness program? Are you a lioness?

[Taylor Sheridan]

I run it. From Taylor Sheridan comes the Paramount original series starring Zoe Saldana.

[Nick Cave]

I choose the asset, I choose the COVID I build the plan and I run it.

[Taylor Sheridan]

Me. With academy award winner Morgan Freeman and academy award winner Nicole Kidman.

[Stephen Colbert]

Everyone's watching on this one, and I do mean everyone.

[Taylor Sheridan]

Lioness. New season now streaming exclusively on Paramount.

[Stephen Colbert]

Plus it's the Late Show Poncho with Stephen Colbert.

[Nick Cave]

My next guest tonight is the lead singer and songwriter of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. This month he's releasing a new album, Wild God. Please welcome back to the Late Show, Nick Cave. Such a. Such a pleasure to have you on here.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you.

[Nick Cave]

You don't know this, but we have been in proximity before. In Reykjavik in 2019, you were at a coffee shop, and me and my two boys, who at the time were 21 and 17, were right behind you. And one of my sons goes, that really looks like Nick Cave. And I said, I doubt we're sitting. Standing behind Nick Cave at a coffee shop in Reykjavik. And then moments later, the person said, nick. And I gotta tell you, you really look like Nick Cave.

[Stephen Colbert]

I do. I've been told that. Yeah, I have been. It's been mentioned often that I look like Nick Cave.

[Nick Cave]

Last time you were here on the show performing was in 2017, and since then you've published a book. Here it is. It's Faith, Hope and Carnage in which you talk about creativity and grief and the power of music. Music is so powerful. It's, like, mysterious to me. And I'm curious how you see and how you express the power of music. What does it mean to you?

[Stephen Colbert]

What is music to me?

[Nick Cave]

What is the power of music to you?

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I think music is a thing that makes things better. You know, it. Hey, this is gonna be easy, you know, I mean, I really think it is one of the last. These guys know. It's one of the last legitimate opportunities we have for a transcendent experience really left to us and. And, you know, and we need to be careful with it.

[Nick Cave]

And we need to be careful with it.

[Stephen Colbert]

I think we need to. I think there's. Well, I don't know if we need to get. You know, but I think there's forces out there that are expressly designed to take the creative act away from us, especially with AI as it's coming out.

[Nick Cave]

At the moment, to purely industrialize it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, to create music as simply a product and to take away the actual creative. The creative experience is seen as a sort of impediment on the road to the product itself. That worries me a lot.

[Nick Cave]

Music is magical to me because it does what magic does. It causes an effect at a distance. It can reach inside and change your heart and change your mind without touching it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Absolutely can. And to play music live as a kind of communal experience, there's nothing really quite like that. To stand on stage, to perform to people, is a genuinely transcendent opportunity. And I take that, you know, I take that very seriously, as one would take a sacred act seriously.

[Nick Cave]

I think there is something sacred about performance of all kinds, humans being humans in front of humans. Because we're all so good at hiding our own feelings, though, we need to express our feelings that we'll go pay money to see someone else express their feelings on stage so we can feel something.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Maybe that's the way I find that there's something about music itself, essentially, that it is a kind of. It's a sort of glue that binds us together. And it. For me, music is really at the very soul and the core of the world. And it's used in all sorts of sacred forms as a sort of central, sort of bonding, binding agent that holds us together.

[Nick Cave]

Has your view of music or the role that music plays in your life changed over the years? Was there a moment that you went, okay, this is it. I'm not going back. This is what I'm gonna do with my life?

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, I've always found music to be a way of arriving at a different place, you know, But I think when I first started off making music, my relationship with the audience especially was extremely adversarial. It was. I was, you know, part of the kind of punk rock movement, I guess. And it was really about coming up against the. The audience in a.

[Nick Cave]

The hostile relationship.

[Stephen Colbert]

A hostile relationship. But it was also transcendent at the same time in the sense that I found that there was something going on on stage where I could walk from, to be this thing to walk onto stage and become this other thing. And I could see that happen to the audience as well. And so it's not dissimilar now that I still walk up on two to stage with a feeling of intense sort of dread about my sort of position in things, and to step onto the stage and this sort of evaporate into something that's much where I become a larger, more complete person.

[Nick Cave]

Did you all. Did that dread always dissipate when you were younger? Cause I find certainly it was my experience when I was not a musician, but a younger performer, and I see this in other younger performers, is that there's sometimes a hostility toward the audience out of nervousness, out of anxiety, out of fear that you won't be accepted. So instead, you cut it off with hostility before you ever get rejected.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, maybe I just. I was just a nasty little guy, you know. I don't think I thought that deeply about it, really.

[Nick Cave]

Well, nasty little guys don't always get to perform with Johnny Cash. Here you are in 2002, you and Johnny Cash and Smokey. Rick Rubin. How did this come about?

[Stephen Colbert]

Can I.

[Nick Cave]

Sure, of course you may.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. Yeah. I wish I'd have taken more photographs, actually. But, you know, I mean, just to be clear, Johnny Cash is my hero. You know, I used to watch him as a child. They played the Johnny Cash show on TV in Australia, and I got to sit there as a child and see this man with this voice. And there was something about this voice that just. It followed me all my life. And eventually he recorded one of my songs, the Mercy Seat. I don't know, like, 50 years later. And then I got called into the studio by Rick Rubin to actually sing with Johnny Cash.

[Nick Cave]

What'd you say?

[Stephen Colbert]

It's the most extraordinary thing. We did a version of a Hank Williams song, Feel so Lonesome I Could cry. It was a really beautiful moment, but I was like, you know, I was terrified to sing with my hero, mostly because of his extraordinary. The sort of gravitas of his voice. And I was. You know, I've always had huge misgivings about my voice and thought that I was gonna screw the whole thing up and. But anyway, I got there quite early at the studio, and when he arrived, he was. You know, this was close to when he actually died, and he was not well at all. And it was. When I saw him, it was a sort of terrifying apparition of a man so different than the man that I thought. And when he entered the studio, he was. He had something wrong where if he Came from light into dark. He couldn't see. So he was essentially blind, walking down these stairs towards me with his hands out like this, going, are you there, Nick? Are you there? And I'm looking at him thinking, how is this man going to perform? It was a. And then he sat down. And he sat down with me and he said, look, you know, I've had the flu. I've had laryngitis. I have no voice. I've never asked Jesus for anything. He said, I never asked Jesus for anything, but I had to perform with you today. And last night, I dropped down on my knees and I said, jesus. I said, jesus, I gotta sing with Nick. Give me back my voice. Give me back my voice. And June Carter's there as well, and she's going, hallelujah. Hallelujah. It was an extraordinary moment. Then he goes, I woke up this morning and I'm singing like a bird. He said, like that. And then he sat down, this depleted man, and just transformed. And this is what I'm talking about. Music transformed from this sort of suffering individual into something really extraordinary, literally before my eyes. And so. And we sang this sort of. This beautiful song together. And we finished the song, and there was this sort of dead silence. And Rick Rubin said, gentlemen, we're gonna have to do that again. And I'm like. I'm like. You know, I'm like, I'm flat, right? And he goes, nope, Johnny's flat. And I was like, amateur.

[Nick Cave]

Well, I'm curious about your process. You have a new album right here called Wild God. It's out on August 30th. And first of all, how would you characterize this album? Like, the songs on it are the.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, people have been saying that it's. That it's a kind of a warm embrace. I heard a journalist. I was doing press for it today. So I think it's essentially a joyful, uplifting kind of record, which is quite different than the records I normally make.

[Nick Cave]

Not generally Associated the Bright. You have beautiful music, but it can be quite somber sometimes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, it's. It can be complex. And there's things, especially the last few records. A couple of records I've made have been very fragile, very vulnerable sorts of things. And I think this record is some years on from sort of events that happened in my life that sort of required my music to be different in a way. And this is just a much more earthbound and joyful kind of record.

[Nick Cave]

I think, for the people who may not know what you're referring to is that You've suffered profound loss over the last decade. Two of your sons. I'm so sorry to hear that. I can't imagine.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you.

[Nick Cave]

But you're very open about your grief. It seems important to you, especially in this book. You talk about processing grief, and I'm curious. Many people don't want to talk about grief. People don't know how to approach grief. They think it's sort of feeling I've gotten from some people sometimes, is that grief is in some way, like, contagious, or they. Or they don't know what to say. They want to say the wrong thing. And I'm curious, what have you received from other people about the grief that you've experienced in your life that has been useful to you or meaningful or powerful?

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean, I think that I've found the most articulate responses are not through words. In the end, and when I was, you know, deep in it and, you know, my life had fallen. Fallen apart, it wasn't what people said anyway, that was of. Of any value. It was really of what people did and the idea that people were there for me and that people could make me a cup of tea or make my wife a cup of tea or, you know, I talk about in the book the first time that I went out in public in the sort of seaside town where I lived, and I'm well known in the town, and. And it was a strange feeling to go out and everyone knew about what had happened when Arthur died. And I went into a vegetarian takeaway restaurant, which I'd often go, and I knew quite well. One of the girls who worked there, a wonderful person, and I sort of was in a line and came up to her and she didn't say anything. And I was kind of shocked because, you know, don't you know what's happened to me? And I gave her the money and she handed me back the change and just squeezed my hand as she gave me back the money. And this fear, this felt to me, I'll never forget that because it was so beautifully, quietly articulate of one human being responding to another human being that was beyond language, beyond words, you know. And so I think it's these small kindnesses that really resonate for the people who.

[Nick Cave]

Out there who have experienced great loss and often do it alone. What is something you'd like to know about?

[Stephen Colbert]

I'd like them to know what would.

[Nick Cave]

From your experience, is there anything you'd like them to know about getting through this grief?

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, you know, I think there's a decision that we need to make when these. You know, I mean, this is not particular to me. This is ordinary stuff on some level that everyone goes through eventually in one way or another. We all go through these sorts of things, and we have a choice, I think, that we. We can. On some level, there is a desire to turn inward and to sort of wrap ourselves around the absence of the person that we've lost. To sort of as if there's some sort of nobility in wrapping ourselves around the absence of that person. And I think this is a very dangerous situation and a mistake. And that we must be able to turn ourselves the other way and look at the world and understand that we are part of the world and that the world is essentially full of people who have lost things. And it is deeply understanding the sort of vulnerable, precarious nature of each of us and that we need to understand that that is what we are. And I found by looking at the world in that way that I saw the world not as a cruel place, but as an extraordinarily systemically beautiful place to live in. And, you know, and that's out there. That's why, if we're talking about this record, it is a. It's a joyful record where, you know, that I've. You know that there is joy and there is happiness in a way you've never could never believe possible on the other side of grief, you know. And it's a difficult. It's a terrible truth about grief that ultimately you feel. You can feel joy in a way that you never thought you could and.

[Nick Cave]

Perceive it in a way that you never could see the preciousness of it in many ways.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, when you're first in. When these things first happen to you, to hear someone speak in this way that I'm speaking now, just. It's enraging to think that you could ever be happy. How dare you say that you could ever be happy? But it's true. If we look at the world for what it is, there's great joy to be experienced there, you know?

[Nick Cave]

Are you a Leonard Cohen fan?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Cave]

Well, the song Suzanne speaks to that, to me, when he says, jesus was a sailor who walked upon the water and he spent a long time watching from his lonely wooden tower until he knew for certain only drowning men could see him. And he said, all men will be sailors then until the sea shall free them.

[Stephen Colbert]

Beautifully put.

[Nick Cave]

It is the drowning that frees us.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah. It is the devastation that I think, that we all experience that turns us from being a kind of a badly or a Half formed person into a fully formed or fully realized human being. It is the devastation. And it's. I don't mean to be sort of the prophet of doom, but this is sort of coming for everybody at some point. If you're. If you're loved and you love this, this is all. This is part of the deal.

[Nick Cave]

I think it's coming for you. If you're lucky.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Nick Cave]

Well, that means that you've lived long enough and you've loved hard enough to experience the devastation. But it's all just a part of being fully human.

[Stephen Colbert]

That's right.

[Nick Cave]

You have this other. You've guided people through their own experience with something called the Red Hand Files. This is an example of the Red Hand Files. We have someone who's experienced it. What are the red.

[Stephen Colbert]

One person out there.

[Nick Cave]

Yeah. They say if you can touch one person, that's not enough.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly.

[Nick Cave]

What are the Red Hand Files?

[Stephen Colbert]

The Red Hand Files is something that's been going maybe six years or something like that that grew out of. I think that kind of grew out of the death of my child in a way. But it was really a kind of ask me anything type of thing. It was a small idea that has now grown into something quite massive and central to what I do. And it is essentially people write in and ask me questions about things, many of which I have absolutely no authority to answer at all, but do anyway. And I try and answer their letters in a cautious, compassionate.

[Nick Cave]

Would you mind reading one of them?

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Nick Cave]

This is one that we selected.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay. So the question someone has written in, called Valerio from Stockholm, has written in saying, following the last few years, I'm feeling empty and more cynical than ever. I'm losing faith in other people, and I'm scared to pass these feelings onto my little son. Do you still believe in us human beings? So this is the letter that I wrote. Dear Valerio, Much of my early life was spent holding the world and the people in it in contempt. It was a position both seductive and indulgent. The truth is, I was young and had no idea what was coming down the line. It took a devastation to teach me the preciousness of life and the essential goodness of people. It took a devastation to reveal the precariousness of the world, of its very soul, and to understand that the world was crying out for help. It took a devastation to understand the idea of mortal value. And it took a devastation to find hope. Unlike cynicism, hopefulness is hard earned, makes demands upon us, and can often feel like the most indefensible and lonely place on earth. Hopefulness is not a neutral position. It is adversarial. It is the warrior emotion that can lay waste to cynicism. Each redemptive or loving act as small as you like, such as reading to your little boy or showing him a thing you love, or singing him a song, or putting on his shoes, keeps the devil down in the hole. It says the world and its inhabitants have value and are worth defending. It says the world is worth believing in. In time, we come to find that this is so. Love, Nick. Thank you.

[Nick Cave]

The book is Faith, Hope and Carnage. The new album, Wild God comes out on August 30th. Nick Cave and I just want to say, hold on before you what you just saw at home, what you just saw at home is just a scrap of the conversation that we had. And the rest of it will be put online as soon as we can, hopefully tonight, so everyone can see the extraordinary conversation Nick just gave us. Thanks so much, Nick.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you.

[Nick Cave]

I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Late Show POD show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives. I don't want to get promoted. I want to stay charmingly insubordinate. I'm okay.

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[Nick Cave]

Let's do this. Am I catching it?

[Taylor Sheridan]

Prepare for an adventure.

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[Nick Cave]

They're super nice. Hey, what's up, my man?

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[Nick Cave]

Dammit, this is terrible. This keeps getting cooler by the summer.

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[Nick Cave]

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