Roxane Gay | 'The Portable Feminist Reader'

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert featuring Roxane Gay

Episode Title: Roxane Gay | 'The Portable Feminist Reader'
Release Date: March 29, 2025
Host: Stephen Colbert
Guest: Roxane Gay, Award-Winning Writer

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Introduction to Roxane Gay and Her Work

In this enlightening episode of The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert, host Stephen Colbert welcomes acclaimed writer Roxane Gay, known for her best-selling books such as Bad Feminist, Difficult Women, and Hunger. The conversation delves deep into Gay's perspectives on feminism, her latest anthology, and her upcoming literary projects.

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Defining the "Bad Feminist"

Timestamp [02:16]:
Roxane Gay discusses the concept of being a "bad feminist," a central theme in her critically acclaimed collection Bad Feminist. She explains that being a bad feminist doesn't imply abandoning feminist principles but rather acknowledging personal inconsistencies and flaws within one's feminist ideology.

Roxane Gay: "I'm a feminist but I can be inconsistent in some of my ideologies... I listen to hip hop and salt shaker is just like poetry when you really listen to those lyrics. Magic. And so how do you create space for yourself in feminism while acknowledging that some of your ideas may be flawed." ([02:24])

Stephen Colbert aptly summarizes this notion by likening it to preferring "bad pizza" over no pizza at all, to which Gay agrees, emphasizing that embracing imperfection is better than forgoing feminist engagement altogether.

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Evolution of Feminism Over the Decade

Timestamp [03:12]:
The conversation shifts to the changes in the perception and reality of feminism over the past ten years since the release of Bad Feminist. Gay expresses concern over the regression in women's rights, highlighting significant setbacks such as the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

Roxane Gay: "We have lost a lot of ground when it comes to thinking women are people and women should have rights and live in unlegislated bodies... it's just really challenging to have to continue to explain what feminism is at the same time that people are trying to take away women's rights." ([03:23])

She underscores the difficulty of advocating for feminism in a climate where foundational rights are under threat, making the mission of defining and defending feminism more crucial than ever.

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Introducing 'The Portable Feminist Reader'

Timestamp [04:02]:
Stephen Colbert introduces Roxane Gay's latest work, The Portable Feminist Reader, an anthology that was set to release shortly after the podcast.

Selection Process and Content:

Gay explains her meticulous approach to curating the anthology, which spans from the 15th century to contemporary times. Her goal was to showcase the evolution of feminist thought and include voices that are often overlooked in the traditional feminist canon.

Roxane Gay: "I wanted to look at the history of feminist thought and also what contemporary feminists are talking about and what they're thinking and how they're applying it to their lives... I was trying to put in the reader people who would not normally be considered part of the feminist canon, but who absolutely belong there." ([04:19])

This comprehensive collection aims to provide readers with a deep understanding of feminism's historical roots and its modern manifestations, highlighting both foundational ideas and innovative contemporary perspectives.

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Feminism in the 1500s: Historical Perspectives

Timestamp [05:04]:
Colbert probes further into the anthology by inquiring about the inclusion of a 1500s writer discussing women's rights—a period when the concept of human rights was virtually nonexistent.

Roxane Gay: "Back then, it was very sort of feminism 101. Like, women have interesting ideas. Sometimes they can do more than have children, which. Who knew? And it's amazing that we found this out. And so at the time, that was really groundbreaking." ([05:17])

Gay highlights that early feminist thought was nascent but revolutionary, setting the stage for centuries of advocacy and change. She reflects on the harsh reception of feminist ideas in the 1500s, drawing parallels to modern struggles.

Roxane Gay: "They were, like, pretty bad. Burn the witch. It didn't go over too well." ([05:44])

This historical lens serves to illustrate the long and ongoing battle for gender equality, emphasizing the progress made and the challenges that remain.

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Roxane Gay's Outlook: Hope Amidst Challenges

Timestamp [06:01]:
Stephen Colbert poses a poignant question about Roxane Gay's sense of hope or pessimism regarding the future of feminism and societal progress. Gay candidly shares her feelings, balancing recognition of grim realities with optimism inspired by younger generations.

Roxane Gay: "I have two nieces who are incredible, 14 and 13. Every time I talk to them... they don't believe in the word no, and they don't believe in the word can't. So, of course, I have to be optimistic that young kids are going to rise up into a world where they have rights and freedoms." ([06:08])

This segment underscores the importance of intergenerational support and the hope that the resilience and energy of youth will drive continued progress in feminist movements.

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Upcoming Project: A Romance Novel with Channing Tatum

Timestamp [07:06]:
In a delightful turn, Colbert asks about Roxane Gay's collaboration with actor Channing Tatum on a new project. Gay reveals they are co-writing a romance novel, blending her feminist insights with Tatum's storytelling prowess.

Roxane Gay: "We're writing a romance novel together. I can't even say it with a straight face." ([07:11])

The novel promises to be a "bad feminist romance," infusing traditional romance elements with feminist themes. Gay humorously compares the plot to popular romantic films, hinting at a grounded narrative filled with authentic relationships and emotional depth.

Roxane Gay: "It's an adult romance novel... no, it's a bad feminist romance novel." ([07:33])

This collaboration marks an exciting expansion of Gay's literary repertoire, blending genres to explore new dimensions of storytelling.

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Defining Modern Feminism

Timestamp [08:53]:
As the conversation wraps up, Colbert seeks Roxane Gay's succinct definition of modern feminism, amidst its varied and sometimes contentious uses in public discourse.

Roxane Gay: "Feminism is just a movement to ensure that people of all genders are treated equally, have equal access to health care, are paid equally for the labor they do, and are allowed to live lives free of violence." ([09:16])

This clear and inclusive definition encapsulates the essence of feminism as a pursuit of equality and justice across all facets of society.

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Conclusion

Stephen Colbert extends his gratitude to Roxane Gay for her insightful contributions and promotes her new anthology, The Portable Feminist Reader. He encourages listeners to stay engaged with the ongoing conversations around feminism and gender equality.

Stephen Colbert: "The Portable Feminist Readers available now. Thank you for listening to the Late Show POD show with Stephen Colbert." ([09:30])

The episode serves as a comprehensive exploration of feminist thought, both historical and contemporary, through the lens of one of today's most influential feminist writers.

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Note: For those interested in exploring Roxane Gay's work and updates on her projects, including the upcoming romance novel with Channing Tatum, be sure to follow The Late Show YouTube channel and visit Roxane Gay's official publications.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

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Welcome back everybody. My next guest is an award winning writer who's beautiful Best selling books include Bad Feminist, Difficult Women and Hunger. Please welcome to the Late Show Roxane Gay. Roxanne, thank you so much for being here. All right, so here we go. Your best selling collection Bad feminist came out 10 years ago.

[Roxane Gay]

It did.

[Stephen Colbert]

And for the uninitiated here, how do you define being a bad feminist and do you still consider yourself one?

[Roxane Gay]

Well, definitely. Yes, always. But when I wrote the book I was thinking about how I'm a feminist but I can be inconsistent in some of my ideologies. Like yes, I listen to hip hop and salt Shaker is just like poetry when you really listen to those lyrics. Magic. And so how do you create space for yourself in feminism while acknowledging that some of your ideas may be flawed? And I'm still a bad feminist, but I hope I'm a better bad feminist than I was 10 years ago.

[Stephen Colbert]

Could a takeaway be that it's better to be a bad feminist than no feminist at all?

[Roxane Gay]

Exactly, exactly.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because bad, bad pizza is still pizza.

[Roxane Gay]

It is. I was gonna say bad sex is still sex, but eh, sometimes it doesn't quite work.

[Stephen Colbert]

Sometimes it doesn't quite work that way. How do you think the, you know, in the last 10 years since this came out, how do you think the word. The word feminist and feminism itself has changed?

[Roxane Gay]

I don't know that the word has changed, but we have lost a lot of ground when it comes to thinking women are people and women should have rights and live in unlegislated bodies. You know, it's unbelievable. You know, I'm 50 years old and a lot of Gen Xers like myself, we never thought we were going to like lose certain things, like Roe v. Wade. We never thought that would be overturned though. Activists were always on this. And so it's just really challenging to have to continue to explain what feminism is at the same time that people are trying to take away women's rights. It's just a difficult time.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, to help out with thinking about it, you have a new anthology you've curated called the Portable Feminist Reader. It comes out tomorrow.

[Roxane Gay]

It does.

[Stephen Colbert]

How do you go about selecting what goes in a book? Because it spans an enormous amount of time, starting in the 1500s.

[Roxane Gay]

It does, because feminist thought is not new and we did not invent it. And so I wanted to look at the history of feminist thought and also what contemporary feminists are talking about and what they're thinking and how they're applying it to their lives. And so I was looking for great work from the 15th century on and you know, with contemporary thinkers, I was trying to put in the reader people who would not normally be considered part of the feminist canon, but who absolutely belong there. And so I'm pretty proud of where the book ended up.

[Stephen Colbert]

So let's talk about somebody you would normally think about being in. Let's talk about somebody who wouldn't normally think of being in here. There's a writer from the 1500s in here.

[Roxane Gay]

There is.

[Stephen Colbert]

Now, what does someone in the 1500s have to say about women's rights? Before there was a time when anybody had any rights, there was no discussion of human rights, generally speaking, Absolutely. So what form does feminism take then?

[Roxane Gay]

Back then, it was very sort of feminism 101. Like, women have interesting ideas. Sometimes they can do more than have children, which. Who knew? And it's amazing that we found this out. And so at the time, that was really groundbreaking. And I thought it was really important to demonstrate how far we actually have come by showing where a lot of feminist thinking started.

[Stephen Colbert]

How were ideas like that received in the 1500s? The idea of women?

[Roxane Gay]

They were, like, pretty bad.

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean, pretty bad. Yes.

[Roxane Gay]

Burn the witch. It didn't go over too well. And obviously it didn't go over too well because we're having the same conversations 600 years later, 500 years later. It's a challenge.

[Stephen Colbert]

This next question, I'm hesitant to ask, but do you feel hopeful or pessimistic? Looking forward.

[Roxane Gay]

I mean, if I don't read the news, I feel fine. But I would like to believe that I am an optimistic pessimist in that things are pretty grim. But it would be such a luxury to give up on progress and to just say that there's no hope. I have two nieces who are incredible, 14 and 13. And every time I talk to them, I'm like, I don't know what you just said, but it's amazing. And they teach me lots of things, like Delulu and leaving no crumbs. And when I see how awesome they are and how smart they are and how excited. They don't believe in the word no, and they don't believe in the word can't. So, of course, I have to be optimistic that young kids are going to rise up into a world where they have rights and freedoms.

[Stephen Colbert]

I understand that you are working on another project with Channing Tatum.

[Roxane Gay]

I am.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay. Which I did a sentence I did not expect to be saying. What are you two kicking up?

[Roxane Gay]

We're writing a romance novel together. I can't even say it with a straight face.

[Stephen Colbert]

Isn't that the plot of the Lost City with Sandra Bullock?

[Roxane Gay]

It really is. It really is.

[Stephen Colbert]

So how did this come? Did you call him? He called you?

[Roxane Gay]

He didn't. He called me.

[Stephen Colbert]

And you know it's a feminist romance novel.

[Roxane Gay]

Well, I don't know about that, but it's a bad feminist romance novel.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, good. Yes.

[Roxane Gay]

No, he saw an interview, or he was interviewed by a journalist in Australia who was like, did you know that the writer Roxane Gay has a crush on you? And he was like, no. They asked him if he had read Bad Feminist, and he was like, no, but I'll look into it. And then he actually did. So now we're working on this project together that will hopefully come out in about a year and a half.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. A romance novel.

[Roxane Gay]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is he gonna be on the COVID with, like, a torn shirt or anything like that?

[Roxane Gay]

I mean, from your lips to God's ears.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, great. How sexy are we talking here?

[Roxane Gay]

Oh, it's very sexy. Lots and lots of sex. Yes.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, wow.

[Roxane Gay]

Absolutely.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, good.

[Roxane Gay]

It's an adult romance novel.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay, fantastic. Is anybody a vampire in it or anything like that?

[Roxane Gay]

Well, it's actually grounded in reality. You know how, like, so many people make these little pacts, like, if we both turn 40 and we're still single, let's get married. So they actually get married and then they have fall in love afterwards.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, wow.

[Roxane Gay]

And. Yeah, I know, right?

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. Wow. Sort of an arranged marriage. Something they might have done in 1500.

[Roxane Gay]

Exactly. But a voluntary arranged marriage with lots and lots of sex in a bakery.

[Stephen Colbert]

That sounds dusty.

[Roxane Gay]

It does get dusty in the orifices, but what can we do?

[Stephen Colbert]

But that's what the butter's for. Exactly. So just to shift gears back one more time here, but before we go is. I'm curious. The word gets used positively and negative. It gets thrown around as a cudgel. How would you define, as succinctly as possible, the modern use of the word feminism?

[Roxane Gay]

Feminism is just a movement to ensure that people of all genders are treated equally, have equal access to health care, are paid equally for the labor they do, and are allowed to live lives free of violence.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you so much for being here. The Portable Feminist Readers available now. Thank you for listening to the Late Show POD show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

[Mackenzie]

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[Roxane Gay]

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