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Stephen Colbert
And there it was, that hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you.
Ken Burns
Get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
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Stephen Colbert
Hey, everybody, it's Stephen Colbert with the Late Show Pod Show.
Becca
Hi, I'm Becca. I'm the podcast producer here at the Late Show Pod show, and we're just.
Stephen Colbert
Discussing how we enjoy doing these podcast intros. It's something I really look forward to. And they always sneak up on me because I forget by the time we're doing these, we're at the end of a run on the show, like a several week run of the show, and I'm usually pretty tired, and I go, oh, right, yeah, I'm off next week. We should. Becca's gonna have me do this. So I always look forward to it, but I can never. I'm never prepared.
How about that?
I never have anything prepared to do this. And as much as I enjoy it, I wonder if anybody else enjoys this.
Becca
Yes.
Stephen Colbert
I mean, if you're listening to this right now, it's not proof that you're enjoying it. It means that this was just on your feed.
Becca
Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
So what do we need? We need people to, like, rate and review or something like that.
Becca
Yeah, rate and review. You can leave us a comment in.
Stephen Colbert
The review, say, hey, smash that like and subscribe.
Becca
Smash that like and subscribe and say, hey, I really enjoy it when Stephen comes on the podcast. I think it's really fun and I'd maybe like you to talk about this someday. Maybe something like that.
Stephen Colbert
Oh, that wouldn't be bad. Some suggestions to give me any form of focus.
Becca
I read the reviews. I love Reading the reviews.
Stephen Colbert
Really?
How are you feeling? Well, give me, give me an idea.
Becca
One time, a review that I loved was somebody said about, like, a podcast where we, you know, we run the monologues and, like the act twos and then the guests. Someone said, not as good as watching tv, but uses less battery. And I loved that. And I loved that so much.
Stephen Colbert
So you got little victories.
Becca
So we're good for the little victory. So we're good for the environment. The late show. Pod show. Yes. We're saving battery life.
Stephen Colbert
I will say this. Evie often catches the show in podcast form.
Becca
Yes. And so does Carol's husband.
Stephen Colbert
She's got shit to do. You know what I mean? She's like, I can't be staying up late at night and I'm not going to be chained to a screen. She's like, put her on in the car. She'll listen to it.
Becca
Exactly. We're saving lives in the car. The car. Nobody's looking at YouTube on their phone while they're driving to work. I hear, I've heard, like, people's who have friends who are nurses listen to it on their way into work.
Stephen Colbert
She might have to ask me later, why was there a big laugh at this moment? Yeah, because it was a visual joke.
Becca
Yeah. Ariel says that Andrew, her husband, listens to the podcast and then she comes home and she explains what the mockups were. Yeah, that's really sweet, but no, people, we, you know, people are listening to the podcast.
Stephen Colbert
I'm not doubting that.
Becca
But, yeah, I read the reviews. So, please.
Stephen Colbert
It's the number one podcast. I understand.
Becca
It's one of. It's. It's very good.
Stephen Colbert
There's a one in the number. The number is divisible by one.
Becca
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're doing great. We're doing great stuff on his podcast. And we have another extended interview on the podcast today, which is something you only get on the podcast.
Stephen Colbert
So that's free.
Becca
That's for free.
Stephen Colbert
Okay. So they're making a profit on this one. Yeah, they thought they were coming in for the show, but they're getting more show than the show.
Becca
Exactly.
Stephen Colbert
Who is it today?
Becca
It's Ken Burns, the only guest who has a default imovie transition, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Really.
Stephen Colbert
Kenneth Burns. Ken is great to talk to, especially if you're a little tired, because I'm fascinated with what he's saying. He explains everything in such a succinct and such a passionate way, and his answers are very long. So I can take a Little nap.
Becca
Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
Listening. But I can, like, just rest my eyes a little bit while it's talking. Cause it also gets a soothing, soothing way of speaking. He's one of my favorite guests of all time.
Becca
Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
And this subject, Leonardo, I mean, we just. We barely scratched the surface of the surface. He's barely scratching in the documentary. In this conversation. I could not recommend the book that it's based on by Walter Isaacson more highly. I read and enjoyed immensely. The documentary is fantastic. And this extended interview, one of my favorites the last couple weeks.
Becca
Awesome. Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
I mean, it's up there with Coppola as of, like a real master being passionate about again, about creativity.
Becca
Absolutely. No, I feel like the booking department's just been going off lately since post election. We've just been having these treats of these and like, second guests, second guest. Not even like, you know, the second guest slots are just these masters, brilliant people who are just talking to you Right. So passionately for minutes on. Minutes on minutes. And the podcast is hungry for it. So we're happy to. Happy to play it over. Thanks for.
Stephen Colbert
The podcast is an insatiable beast that must be fed.
Becca
Yes. We never get full. We never fill up. And Nick was telling me over slack when we were talking about the Ken Burns interview while it was taping that you guys at the Colbert Report did a spoof Ken Burns documentary, like, at the same time that you were interviewing it. Like, you started.
Stephen Colbert
What we did was tell me the story. Tell me that we did. I think it was the first time we had Ken Burns on. We tried a lot of weird stuff at that old show, and I never wanted to be out blanked by my guests. So I'm not gonna let out. I'm not gonna let Ken Burns out. Ken Burns me. Because the character's approach to every interview was that it was like, it was a test of wills. You had to win the interview. I didn't have interviews. I won every interview. Never lost an interview. I was like, 1457. And oh, yeah, I had won everything. So he said, I'm gonna do a Ken Burns documentary about talking to Ken Burns about documentaries. So while he was in. While I was interviewing him, we did video grabs of sections of it, and we made them black and white, and we did stills and degraded the images, and we put like, you know, all kinds of video noise in all the footage. And at the end of the conversation, at the end of the conversation, we did it real time. I played for him and the audience a documentary about the conversation we just had.
Becca
Oh, my God.
Stephen Colbert
With voiceover that I had recorded earlier of saying, like, my dearest Martha, I'm on minute five of talking to Ken Burns. Stuff like that.
Becca
Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
And it worked. And afterwards we realized we could have, we could have faked all that. Like, why did we have to do it for real? But that didn't change. For the next nine years, anything we said we were gonna do, we really tried to do it.
Becca
Yeah, yeah. No, beautiful. Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
So that was one of the dumbest, hardest things we ever did.
Becca
Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
I believe it nearly killed our control room. Welcome back, everybody.
Ladies and gentlemen, folks. My next guest is an Emmy winning director who has made nearly 40 documentaries about the American experience. His new film explores the mysteries and genius of Leonardo da Vinci.
Ken Burns
This was the heart of the painting for him because it allowed him to show gesture and action and facial expression, the motions of the mind. All of this three, four seconds that happens at this table is unfolding before our eyes in this single image. And the brilliance of him being able to bring this off is truly astounding.
Leonardo da Vinci had magnificently rendered the gestures both subtle and dramatic that testified to the psychological states of his subjects. And he had resoundingly answered the question that he had asked himself many times before. Tell me if anything was ever done, please.
Stephen Colbert
Welcome back to the Late Show, Ken Burns. Love talking to you. It's always very few guests come with the facility to explain why they are interested in the project that they're here to talk about. And after 40 documentaries, your new film, Leonardo da Vinci, it's the first to have a non American subject in it. Have you run out of US History? Is there nothing? Did you run out of black and white photos to slowly crawl a camera over or something?
Ken Burns
Oh, I've got something.
Stephen Colbert
Why?
Ken Burns
So my shtick has always been that if I were given a thousand years to live, which I will not be given, I would never run out of topics in American history. And that is still true. I was having dinner with Walter Isaacson, who is a biographer of Benjamin Franklin. I was working on a film about him. He's been an old friend and he was trying to sell me all evening the idea of doing Leonardo. He also wrote a book about Leonardo.
Stephen Colbert
Which I read, which is a brilliant book, wonderful book.
Ken Burns
And I kept pushing back and I was sort of getting pissed off. And I finally went out and I called my daughter, Sarah Burns, and her husband David McMahon. We'd collaborated on the Central Park Five, Jackie Robinson and Muhammad Ali, and have several films going on through the end of the decade. And I Said, walter's trying to push this Leonardo. They said, we can do Leonardo. And it was like, right. This old dog could learn a new trick. And so you begin to realize that if you tell good stories, you're interested in universal human experiences, and it doesn't really matter who has them. And then here is the guy who's probably the most important person of the last millennium. I mean, Shakespeare would have an argument, and Mozart and Bach maybe, but this guy is the greatest scientist of the age. An anatomist, a botanist. He studies water dynamics. He knows about how atmosphere works. He's dissected human. He's the greatest artist of the time. He's a philosopher. He's got the most famous painting of all time. He's using 75% of the brain, if we're just using 10. And I want to know more about it. And so this has been this joyous. And he's not a tortured artist. He's a wonderful person. He sings, he plays musical instruments, he stages theatricals. It's somebody you want to know you. Somebody you want to be with and be around. And he happens to be a person who could probably say, I know everything there is to know. And he's still not satisfied. The most relentlessly curious person I've ever come across. And that kind of wonder, that kind of joy, that kind of excitement about learning, we can use a lot of now.
Stephen Colbert
Yes.
Ken Burns
You know what I mean?
Stephen Colbert
Well, I know that you presented it. You were just in Rome for a screening.
Ken Burns
Yeah.
Stephen Colbert
How did that go? They're very possessive of Leonardo.
Ken Burns
They are. And we went in there hoping we weren't, you know, carpetbaggers, interlopers, sort of presuming to tell Italians about him. And it was at the Rome Film Festival, and it was really nice because people would come up and say, we thought we knew him. It's sort of like George Washington. I'm now working on a big history of the American Revolution. And George Washington is so encrusted with the barnacles of sentimentality and misinformation and stupid stuff on the teeth. And the teeth, the whole thing like that. Throwing the coin, never telling a lie. We all lie. We know some people lie more than others, but how you unmask George Washington is important. And what we found is that the Italians were grateful that we had sort of given a full portrait, birth to death of their most famous guy, the greatest painter of all times. The person who, as you know, Ross was saying just a second ago in this clip, I think he invented film. I mean, the Last Supper is not just like a snapshot of a moment, this incredible moment, but it's several, several moments. He said four, I think it's eight seconds. I think he invented cinema in a static, inanimate, two dimensional thing called a painting on the wall of a dining room of a refectory of a monastery outside of Milan.
Stephen Colbert
One of the things that gets me, when I was a kid, I was seven years old, there was a PBS series from an Italian series about Leonardo called the. I think it was called the Life of Leonardo and translated with dubbing in English. And I, as a kid, one of the things that strikes me about him and correct me if I'm wrong, I have read that in his time, Leonardo was most renowned for his sculpture and his architecture, no example of which survives to this day.
Ken Burns
Not quite. If you're in the Renaissance, in the middle of the 15th century in Florence, and you're working at the studio of Andrea del Verrocchio, his mentor, you are learning sculpture, you are learning jewelry, you are learning all this stuff, you are learning music, you are learning math, mathematics, philosophy, all that. And he imbibes it all. He is born out of wedlock, cannot go to school, traditional university. And so nature is his first teacher. So he is constantly questioning, interrogating the universe from almost the get go. And so what he brings to all of this, some sculpture, but mostly his first painting is fantastic. The architecture are mostly plans and ideas.
Stephen Colbert
And drawings and perhaps were never made.
Ken Burns
So the thing is, how many paintings would you think Leonardo did? This is arguably the greatest painter of all time. 50, fewer than 20. And half of them are unfinished. So he always, he walked away from things and patrons and expectations, I think, because either he realized that this painting would no longer answer, provide him possibly the answers to these deep questions he's asking, just big questions, the nature of the universe.
Stephen Colbert
Let me ask you about some that do exist. I understand that this right here, right here, what is this? This is the Virgin, or sometimes called the Madonna of the Rocks.
Ken Burns
Virgin in the rocks, yeah.
Stephen Colbert
Okay, this is where we have. Here we have the child on the screen. Left here. This is John the Baptist.
Ken Burns
John the Baptist.
Stephen Colbert
This is Mary, this is Jesus over here, and this is the angel Uriel. What is this? Knowing Leonardo and his intention. What does this painting say to you?
Ken Burns
So I remember seeing this in the Louvre when we were just sort of scouting and sort of looking at it and going, oh my God, that's so lovely. But not really seeing it in our Monsignor Timothy Verdon, who is a Catholic priest in a collar, but also an art historian explains this. If you look at this, the Virgin Mary has her hand around the shoulder of John the Baptist. She's sort of restraining him. So at the same time, these scenes are all about this timeless thing that she knows she has to bear the Son of God and that he will die in the passion. But she's the maternal instincts he's putting in the human dimension. He's not just painting the people in beautiful three dimensions. They're different from anything else earlier in painting. But he's painting, as Ross said, the intentions of the mind, what they're feeling, what they're thinking. So here's a mother, like any other mother. She wants to also reach down and protect her son, right? But God has put an angel in the way. Her hand cannot reach that son. And the son, meanwhile, a baby is blessing John the Baptist, who is bringing him the news that he is the son of God and will eventually die in the Passion.
Stephen Colbert
And it's like Mary is saying, not yet, not yet.
Ken Burns
And she's going, what? But any mother would say, please don't take him. So at the same time, she is participating in this timeless spiritual drama at the heart of the Christian religion. She is also a mother who does not want to lose her son and Leonardo, for the first time, this is the most complex Madonna and child, as Timothy Verdon says, painting of the entire Renaissance of all time. And when you see this, it makes me wee. I've seen it, you know, 100 times in the editing room. It makes me weep every single time.
Stephen Colbert
Well, there's so much about Leonardo to talk about. I'm going to jump to the greatest hit here. Why is this painting the most famous painting in the world? Is it pr. No, I just asked because.
Ken Burns
No, no, no, I get it, I get it. She is again like George Washington, like Leonardo himself, kind of encrusted with the barnacles of sentimentality and nostalgia. But this is the epitome of painting. There was a critic in the middle of the 16th century, Giorgio Vasari, who is rhapsodizing about this. This is the 24 year old wife of a well to do Florentinian silk merchant who by age 24 had already had five children. He was commissioned to make a painting of her. It is beautiful. The background's beautiful. Everything about what he's known all his life about bringing to life. But see, he also knows about anatomy. He knows about the heart, he knows about the circulatory system, he knows about the muscular system. He knows about hair, he knows about atmosphere, he knows about all these things. He puts it all in this. And so we make jokes. Now, Marcel Duchamp paints a mustache on her in the surrealist period. But she represents the height of the human project. The ultimate question. She is a real person he has animated. And this critic, Vasari, went down from rhapsodizing about the face and looked at her neck and he said, I can see the blood flowing in her veins. I can see her heart beating there. Which means that he had become, as Francesca Borgo in our film a scholar said, become a painter. God. He had taken these inanimate objects and he had invested them with so much energy, so much curiosity, so much life and emotion that she is alive. And the French king had already imported him. He never delivered it, the painting. He's always tinkering with it. And so when he came to France and spent his last years there, it answers your question. Why is it at the Louvre and not in the Uffizi in Florence or in Rome, at the Vatican, whatever? It's because the French had it. But it is the epitome of the work of the greatest painter, I think, of all time, who got into who we are. The central questions that he's always asking, interrogating the universe. What is my purpose here? What am I supposed to do? Where do I go? Where do I come up? And he's always interested in the microcosm and the macrocosm and how we relate. The Vitruvian man is supposed to be built on the proportions of a perfect temple, which itself is an homage to the universe and all this stuff. He doesn't have a microscope, he doesn't have a telescope. He's doing it all with his own eye. But the simplest way to explain it, Stephen, is to say that the architecture of the atom and the architecture of the solar system share a profoundly similar design, and that that as above, so below, is the essence of his questing and why we all are drawn to him. Everybody says, what do you want people to take away from a film? I said, nothing. We made it, it's yours. If we've done a good story, if you get something, fine. If you don't, that's also fine. I want people to be more like Leonardo, more curious, more interested in the world around them and what's happening.
Stephen Colbert
Well, that's my last question. I know we've already gone a bit long here, but I just want to ask you anyway, because I love talking to you. You've told me before, when we've talked that your films try to answer the question, who are we? What does Leonardo tell us about who we are?
Ken Burns
You know what? We never get the answer. We sound the question. And I don't know anybody who has asked that question more deeply and with more inspirational effect insofar as I mean that as you get close to the paintings, as you read the diaries, the codexes, as you look at the drawings and the anatomies, he built a model of a human heart that he figured out that there were four chambers. And he did experiments. There was no cardiac surgery. It took 450 years and MRIs to see that he was exactly right, without a microscope, without anything else of what our hearts look like. And so I think more than anything, the metaphor of the heart is the most important thing. He's asking, who am I? And that is all that's required in any artistic realm, in any kind of political dialogue, in any social circumstance, in the intimacy of our best relationships in our religions, our faith, whatever it might be. Who am I? Is a question that doesn't get answered. It gets sounded. And then out of that comes a virtuous life.
Stephen Colbert
Ken, thanks so much for being here. Always a pleasure. Leonardo da Vinci premieres November 18th on PBS. Ken Burns, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late.
Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert.
Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.
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Ken Burns
Anyone knows how powerful urges can be? It's me.
Dexter Morgan
Find out in his killer new origin story. Dexter Original Sin this hunger inside of you.
Stephen Colbert
It needs a master.
Dexter Morgan
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Ken Burns
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Detailed Summary of "Stephen Presents: Ken Burns (Extended)" on The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert
Podcast Information:
The episode begins with Stephen Colbert engaging in a candid conversation with Becca, the podcast producer, about the behind-the-scenes aspects of producing the Late Show Pod Show. They humorously discuss the challenges of podcast intros and Stephen's perpetual unpreparedness for these segments.
Notable Quotes:
Colbert and Becca also emphasize the importance of listener engagement, encouraging ratings, reviews, and subscriptions to help guide future podcast content.
The focus shifts as Stephen introduces the episode's guest, Ken Burns, an acclaimed Emmy-winning director known for his extensive work on American history documentaries. This extended interview delves deep into Burns' latest project: a documentary exploring the life and genius of Leonardo da Vinci.
Notable Quotes:
Ken Burns passionately discusses his decision to focus on Leonardo da Vinci, despite his prolific career centered on American history. He credits Walter Isaacson, a biographer of Benjamin Franklin and Leonardo, for inspiring him to undertake this project.
Notable Quotes:
Burns elaborates on Leonardo's multifaceted genius, highlighting his contributions to art, science, anatomy, and philosophy. He underscores Leonardo's insatiable curiosity and his quest to understand both the microcosm and macrocosm of the universe.
The conversation delves into Leonardo's diverse interests and achievements. Burns marvels at Leonardo's ability to intertwine art with scientific inquiry, describing him as "the greatest scientist of the age" and "the greatest artist of the time."
Notable Quotes:
A significant portion of the interview focuses on Leonardo's painting "Virgin of the Rocks." Burns provides a detailed analysis of the artwork, exploring its emotional depth and technical brilliance. He explains how Leonardo infused the painting with psychological complexity, making it a timeless masterpiece that captures both divine and human elements.
Notable Quotes:
Burns also touches on the painting's reception, noting how critics like Giorgio Vasari praised its lifelike quality and emotional resonance, attributing it to Leonardo's deep understanding of anatomy and human emotion.
Ken Burns reflects on Leonardo's enduring legacy, emphasizing how his work bridges the gap between art and science. He highlights Leonardo's innovative techniques and his profound impact on both fields, asserting that Leonardo's inquiries into human existence and the natural world remain relevant today.
Notable Quotes:
Burns shares his admiration for Leonardo's boundless curiosity and creative spirit. He draws parallels between Leonardo's approach to life and the podcast's desire to explore diverse and profound topics. Burns advocates for a life driven by curiosity, much like Leonardo's, as a means to understand the world and ourselves better.
Notable Quotes:
The conversation includes humorous and insightful anecdotes about Ken Burns' experiences during film production, including a memorable interaction with Stephen Colbert. Burns recounts a playful spoof involving a mock documentary within the interview, showcasing the lighthearted rapport between him and Stephen.
Notable Quotes:
As the interview wraps up, Ken Burns emphasizes the importance of maintaining curiosity and a quest for knowledge. He encourages listeners to embrace the questions that define human existence, rather than seeking definitive answers.
Notable Quotes:
Stephen Colbert thanks Ken Burns for his insightful contributions, highlighting the premiere of Leonardo da Vinci's documentary on PBS and encouraging listeners to tune in.
Closing Remarks:
This extended interview with Ken Burns offers a profound exploration of Leonardo da Vinci's life, highlighting the Renaissance master's unparalleled contributions to art and science. Burns' insightful analysis and passionate delivery provide listeners with a deep appreciation for Leonardo's enduring legacy and the timeless questions that continue to inspire human curiosity and creativity.