Stephen Presents: Terry Gross (Extended)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Stephen Presents: Terry Gross (Extended)
Date: February 13, 2026
Host: Stephen Colbert
Featured Guest: Terry Gross (Host of NPR’s Fresh Air)
Format: Extended conversation with Terry Gross; insight into both hosts’ careers and personal philosophies

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Overview

This special episode features an extended interview between Stephen Colbert and legendary radio host Terry Gross. Celebrating Gross’s remarkable 50-year career as the host of NPR’s Fresh Air, the conversation goes beyond their shows, touching on broadcasting philosophy, interviewing techniques, public radio, personal grief, and the profound lessons learned from loss. The tone is intimate, candid, and at times both humorous and deeply moving—an exploration not only of their respective crafts but of how personal experiences shape art and conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Life and Origins in Broadcasting

• Terry Gross's Early Days (16:54 – 17:38)

  • Terry Gross started hosting Fresh Air at 24 (1974) at her college's NPR affiliate in Buffalo.
  • She describes radio as a childhood "reach outside" from her crowded Brooklyn apartment:
    • “I’d put the transistor radio under my pillow at night. …it was like bedtime.” (17:42)
  • Gross loved rock’n’roll and hid her listening from her parents.
  • She has never had to move for her show, as it grew from local to national.

• Voice Recognition (18:27 – 19:13)

  • Terry often isn't recognized by her face, only by voice—sometimes in embarrassing situations, such as being identified by a car salesman who found her show "annoying."

Volume and Value of Work

• Interview Count and Favorites (19:16 – 19:47)
  • Terry estimates she’s conducted between 15,000–18,000 interviews.
  • Stephen Colbert is one of her most frequent guests; their first interview discussed Catholicism and Colbert’s religious thought.

Lessons from Interviewing

• Insights on Creativity (20:09 – 20:24)
  • Many artists Terry’s interviewed were homebound as children, due to illness, sparking their creativity.
  • She clarifies: “The worst things in your life can have a payoff sometimes if you’re really lucky. Although I don’t believe every problem is…a gift, you know? I don’t buy that.” (20:56 – 21:00)

The Structure and Philosophy of Hosting

• "Lecho Vocab" and the Band Joke (05:27 – 09:39)
  • Stephen and staff discuss inside lingo, e.g., Stephen always intros band guests as "the Knack" (regardless of the actual band), a running gag from an old Second City tour story.
    • “Every band to me, every band who’s ever come on this show in my mind is the Knack.” (09:36)
  • Stephen never reads “I’m your host, Stephen Colbert” from the prompter—he prefers “I’m Stephen Colbert” then adds “your host” himself, to keep it feeling informal and personal.
    • “It’s some handshake I have with the script… I’m reading an impression of the script.” (11:12)

Mutual Admiration and Influence

• Impact of Terry on Stephen (12:55 – 13:15)
  • Terry Gross was the first to give Stephen a meaningful in-depth interview, influencing his approach to being interviewed and making him more open with subsequent interviewers.

Changes and Funding in Public Media

• Role of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (21:10 – 22:18)
  • Terry reflects on the essential funding CPB provided to launch Fresh Air nationally, stressing that public funding enabled opportunities for people like her and the show’s sustained success.
    • “It wouldn’t have happened without the CPB.” (22:13)

Grief, Memory, and the Power of Interview

• Discussing Personal Loss (22:18 – 29:07)

  • Terry’s husband and long-time jazz contributor Francis Davis passed away; she pays tribute through music and his writing, finding comfort in his work.

    • “I find my husband in his books.” (23:49)

  • Terry recounts a particularly poignant Fresh Air interview with Maurice Sendak, a beloved children’s author, who, near death, told her:

    • “Live your life. Live your life. Live your life.” (24:37)
    • She repeats this to herself after her loss.

  • Stephen and Terry discuss differing experiences of grief—her slow process watching a loved one decline, Stephen’s sudden loss of his father and brothers in a plane crash.

  • Both share vivid “visitation” dreams of lost loved ones and discuss how dreams can offer insight and reminders to live:

    • Stephen’s dream: “Mom, you’re alive. I must be dreaming." / His mom: “Good, it's the only way you'll stay awake.” (28:28 – 28:44)
    • Terry: “Do you think she was also telling you to live your life, to stay awake?” (29:22–29:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Philosophy of Hosting

• Stephen Colbert: “The important thing is to look like you haven’t put a lot of thought into the words.” (12:07)

• Terry Gross: “I don’t believe every problem is really a gift, you know? I don’t buy that.” (20:56)

On Grief

• Terry Gross, about her late husband: “I find my husband in his books.” (23:49)

• Terry Gross quoting Maurice Sendak: “Live your life. Live your life. Live your life.” (24:37)

• Stephen Colbert on grief: “Grief is almost something that is outside of you and comes to you... like, visited by grief. And it’s as if grief is something that comes and sits with you and you can decide whether to hold its hand.” (27:00 – 27:10)

• Stephen Colbert’s mother in a dream: “Good, it’s the only way you’ll stay awake.” (28:44)

On Broadcasting Rituals

• Stephen Colbert: “It’s some handshake I have with the script that I don’t have to say every word that’s up there. And I don’t have to say [it] exactly the way that’s in the prompter.” (11:12)

• Terry Gross (to Stephen’s interpretation of his dream): “Do you think she was also telling you to live your life, to stay awake?” (29:22)

• Stephen Colbert: “I think that’s a completely valid interpretation. 100%. As a matter of fact, I’m grateful for that interpretation. Thank you.” (29:27)

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Important Timestamps

• Lecho Vocab & Merry-Go-Round Discussion: 01:06 – 05:27
• The “Knack” Running Gag Origin: 05:51 – 09:39
• Colbert’s Hosting Philosophy: 09:46 – 12:14
• Transition to Terry Gross Interview: 12:15 – 16:13
• Terry Gross Joins: 16:13
• Terry’s Career Reflections: 16:54 – 17:38
• Terry on Interview Volume and Value: 19:16 – 19:47
• Art and Adversity: 20:09 – 20:56
• CPB and Public Radio Funding: 21:10 – 22:18
• Grief, Love, and Tribute: 22:18 – 24:20
• Maurice Sendak Memory: 24:31 – 26:00
• Stephen’s Family Loss and Grief Philosophy: 26:08 – 29:07
• Shared Dreams of Lost Loved Ones: 27:10 – 29:07

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Flow and Tone

The episode is a seamless blend of light-hearted behind-the-scenes banter (explaining show lingo, hosting rituals, merry-go-rounds) and deeply personal, reflective conversation. Both Stephen and Terry are candid about vulnerability, the challenges of balancing work and life, and the lasting impact of grief—underscored by warmth, mutual respect, and intellectual curiosity.

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Summary Takeaway

For longtime fans and newcomers alike, this episode is not only a tribute to Terry Gross, but an exploration of what it means to communicate—on the air and in life. Both hosts share the rituals and improvisational nature of their jobs, and open up about how the losses they’ve faced shape their outlooks and their craft. The episode closes on the gentle imperative to appreciate and truly “live your life,” a mantra from a memorable Fresh Air interview echoing through their exchange.

Transcript

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[Stephen Colbert]

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[Becca]

Hi, Becca. Hi, Steven. How's it going? You beat me this time.

[Stephen Colbert]

I did? Yeah.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You gotta go for that brass ring.

[Becca]

Yeah. Catch up on the podcast if you haven't tuned in this week and you'll get it.

[Stephen Colbert]

By the way, when I say go for the brass ring, do you know what that means?

[Becca]

I don't know what that means.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Steven]

Okay.

[Stephen Colbert]

But have you heard the term before you gotta go for it?

[Becca]

I've heard you say it. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You've heard me say it.

[Becca]

Heard you say it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, my God. I'm giving you 19th century entertainment references. Go for the brass ring or reach for the brass ring. Is that Merry go rounds used to have an additional game. Oh, is that you'd be on the merry go round, but on there'd be a little arm on the outside of the merry gown on a post and there'd be a little rack. And on the rack were a series of brass rings. And the rack had a little roll to it. So one, the brass rings would roll down. So one of them would be at the end of the little rack and. And you could stick your finger through it and pull it off off a little spring system. And then the other next brass ring would roll down and it was. Will you dare as you go around to lean off your horse like A trick rider and reach out and grab that brass ring.

[Becca]

Oh, cool.

[Stephen Colbert]

So it's putting a little extra effort in taking a little risk. But what you get is the brass ring. And I think you could. I think it was sort of thing like you turned in the brass ring for like a kewpie doll or something like that. And you, like, you reach for the brass ring so you could get your girl who's riding on the next horse over. You could get her, you know, that was it. Reach for the brass train.

[Becca]

Why are they not around anymore? Too many.

[Stephen Colbert]

Probably insurance.

[Becca]

Bloody noses or something.

[Stephen Colbert]

Probably insurance people fell off.

[Becca]

Do you know? I love merry go rounds. It's a big thing about me.

[Announcer]

I love.

[Becca]

I love a good merry go round.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Becca]

I have this idea that I'm trying to do where I'm trying to create. I'm not an influencer by any means.

[Stephen Colbert]

But I think it'd be you're. By some means you're an influencer to.

[Becca]

Be a merry go round influencer. And the.

[Announcer]

Oh, you go.

[Becca]

You go to merry go round the world.

[Stephen Colbert]

Merry go round the world and that.

[Becca]

There's a lot of beautiful old merry go rounds around.

[Stephen Colbert]

There's one in Central pa. Nice one in Central Park.

[Becca]

The one in Brooklyn. Good one in Brooklyn. There's my favorite merry go round in the world is on West Riverside park. Up uptown. Much uptown. I did a tip to tip where I went from the top tip of Manhattan to the bottom tip. And I countered it by chance. But there was a.

[Stephen Colbert]

That must have been wild for you to just come around the corner and see a merry go round.

[Becca]

To see a merry go round.

[Terry Gross]

But.

[Becca]

And yet there she was. But this is an amazing.

[Announcer]

Tell me about it.

[Stephen Colbert]

What do you love about it?

[Becca]

This artist in New York, I'm forgetting his name right now. And I apologize for that. I'll pull it in the description. But yeah, he did a lot of art for Sesame street. And he was asked by the city of New York to create a merry go round for this park that they were building. And he would go into public schools in Harlem and say, oh, we're gonna make a merry go round together. You're gonna doodle me your dream merry go round animal that you wanna ride. And so these little kids, like kindergarten, first grade drew these goofy little doodles of animals like, you know, those seeing, like the way a kid draws a horse, it's just a glob with a smiley face on it. And then he created those perfectly to become Plexiglas sculptures that you can then Ride. And then there's a little like the signature of the kid is like inscribed in the wood beneath it. And there's a little picture of what the original doodle was. And all the kids who got a merry go round creature on the merry go round has like a lifetime pass to write it whenever. It's so cool. I'll show you pictures later.

[Stephen Colbert]

How old is it?

[Becca]

It's from the 90s, I think. So it's not that old.

[Stephen Colbert]

These kids could be. Yeah, we have kids of their own.

[Becca]

Yeah. No, definitely. But it's a really beautiful thing and lovely. A great mix of, you know, art, you know, children of the city and the government coming together to make something fun.

[Stephen Colbert]

Do you know, like history of merry go rounds or anything like that? Like.

[Becca]

Well, I'm learning now. The brass ring I got. Now I know a little bit more, but I don't know that much of the history.

[Stephen Colbert]

Merry go round horses. Like, sometimes you'll see them in an antique store or something. Just like an old merry go round horse with the pole still sticking through it. Like people use as like a end table or something like that. They often have a, like a frantic look on their faces. Like kind of like a scary, like eyes rolled back, like, mouth open. Like horses, like galloping for mad like that.

[Becca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I wonder if there was ever a.

[Steven]

Point where sometimes they go up and.

[Stephen Colbert]

Down, sometimes they go up and down and sometimes they don't.

[Becca]

Yeah. I like the up and down ones.

[Stephen Colbert]

The posting ones. The posting ones are nice.

[Becca]

Yeah. Yeah. But highly recommend that that piece of. That piece of New York history go up to see the merry go round sometime. But anyways, we have a little game that we like to play here in the Lecho Pod show that I call Lecho vocab.

[Steven]

Yes.

[Becca]

Which is that Stephen and a lot of people on the show, we develop a shorthand. We have a lot of sayings that we are like sort of insider lingo that we say all the time. But then when I think about it, I'm not sure what some of it means. They have great backstories and I like asking Steven what they mean. And this today, I hopefully, hopefully I.

[Stephen Colbert]

Will know the meaning of this.

[Becca]

This is a phrase you say all the time. And I don't know the backstory of it or even really what it means.

[Stephen Colbert]

Okay.

[Becca]

The knack. I know the band the Knack, but.

[Stephen Colbert]

The knack, obviously my Sharona being their big hit. I don't know why I started doing it here, but on when I'M reading the intros in rehearsal. I go through the entire script and some of it is quite meaningful. I have to understand what the setups are. Did I really understand the news story that we're making our jokes about that day? Does this punchline work?

[Steven]

What's the order?

[Stephen Colbert]

There's a lot of decisions to be made about on the fly. And I'm giving notes on the fly and I'm asking questions and I'm hitting research. I'm asking graphics. I'm questioning what our take is like, is that really what we want to say? What's that about that joke? But then I have to read everything that's in the prompter just to make sure everything's properly in the prompter. And I have to read the guest intros. And when we get to the band, if there's a band, I tend to not say the name of the band. I tend to say, you know, making their late night debut with the album last night, won two Grammys, you know. Please welcome the Knack. Because the knack were big when I was young. And so that's one reason. And another reason is when I was young and on tour with Second City, there was a guy named Scott Allman. And Scott Allman knew a lot about a lot of bands, a lot of obscure bands, but also just a lot of general bands. And we were doing like a newspaper quiz one day about like great hits of the 70s or something like that. I forgot what it was. And there was some really difficult trivia question as we were. You know, he burned a lot of time in the van looking for a lot. This is before the Internet friends. This is before cell phones friends.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

You know, so it was books and magazines and newspapers. And he was very confident that he had the answer to whoever what the answer to this band was. And he reached forward and he goes. He goes, no, wait. And he reaches his fist forward, like does that fist pump thing where you pull your fist down. Like you're like. You like clench it. He goes, the neck. And it could not have been not the knack more. It was like Stevie Wonder or something who wrote Do I do, you know the knack? And we made so much fun of his commitment. That it was the knack.

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

That it never left me and the people. One person was in the car. Paul Donello, one of the producers here, he was in the car, the van, when that happened. And he could confirm this. I don't know if you ever do fact checking on these podcasts, but he can confirm that's where the knack comes from.

[Becca]

Okay, cool. Great backstory.

[Stephen Colbert]

Best to you, Scott Allman. Wherever you may roam these days. And Scott also had a really good way. He'd shut down anyone else's idea about what an answer for something would be. He would go, no, no, no. He had this very way of talking like this, oh, Chicago. No, Chicago. No, no, no. So he was like, no, no, no, I got it. The neck. And it was not the neck. And so in my mind, why waste my time saying, you know, cigar, us, whatever, like, whoever. The band, you know, Charlie. Xcx. No, the neck. Every band to me, every band who's ever come on this show in my mind is the knack.

[Becca]

Awesome. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Except the knack. Who we've never had on.

[Becca]

Who we've never had on.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't think. I don't think they're all still with us, unfortunately. It's not too bad.

[Becca]

Okay, great story. And you do that.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's an okay story.

[Becca]

You do that with. Well, this is a little bit different, but in the script, the writers are instructed to never write, I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. The script always says, I'm Stephen Colbert. Why is that?

[Terry Gross]

I don't know.

[Steven]

But in the script.

[Stephen Colbert]

But you always say in the script, in the prompter and on the script, I always said, welcome to the Late Show, I'm Stephen Colbert. And I think the very first night, maybe I wanted to welcome the Late show, I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. But it said, I'm Stephen Colbert. And after that, I was like, okay, I'll just say, I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. Because I like the formality. I like something. So in a way, comedy is essentially low rent. And there's something very little formal about, welcome to the Late Show, I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. And instead of I'm Stephen Colbert, I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. Much more like a maitre d. Like, I'm taking you to a nice table or something like that. Or like, welcome to the party, that sort of thing.

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Cause I think of it as, like, welcoming people to a party. And I don't know, I just. I get stuck in my head that certain things become ritual. And it's important to me that it never say, I'm your host, Stephen Colbert in the prompter, that it only say, I'm Stephen Colbert. And then I will add your host. And there's some. It's some handshake I have with the script that I don't have to say every word that's up there. And I don't have to say exactly the way that's in the prompter. And so that I start off the show knowing that I know something the audience doesn't know about me reading the script is that I'm not entirely reading the script. I'm reading an impression of the script.

[Becca]

Totally. Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. I always love that.

[Stephen Colbert]

But it's funny. You picked up on. Have I said that out loud?

[Becca]

I. Well, I look at the script every single day. It's my job. And I also listen to the taping every single day. And I'm just. This does not match up.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, it never matches up.

[Becca]

There was one day when we did write. I'm your host, Stephen Colbert, and you said, delete that. You said, they can't say that. I remember that really specifically, and I think you gave a similar reason to it, but not so in depth. But you were just like. I like to remind myself to add.

[Stephen Colbert]

That it's up to me to not be a slave to the prompter. That, like, the prompter and I are having this conversation.

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not. It's not dictating it to me.

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

I mean, largely. But not.

[Becca]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

We put a lot of thought into the words.

[Becca]

We do. We do. And you do. Especially more than anyone else.

[Stephen Colbert]

And then the important thing is to look like you haven't put a lot of thought into the words.

[Becca]

Yes, exactly. Keep it conversational.

[Stephen Colbert]

It's very important to say a lot of the script. Not looking at the camera.

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

So it doesn't look like you're reading.

[Becca]

Yeah, yeah. And speaking of conversational hosts, you know who we have today on the podcast?

[Stephen Colbert]

John Oliver.

[Becca]

No. We have the amazing Terry Gross.

[Stephen Colbert]

Terry Gross.

[Becca]

Terry Gross.

[Stephen Colbert]

Not for the faint of heart to interview Terry Gross, because you will find yourself being interviewed by Terry Gross.

[Becca]

And she does do that to you.

[Stephen Colbert]

She does. She interviews me in the last few minutes of this. It becomes her interviewing me. Oh, Terry, the best.

[Becca]

She's so cool.

[Stephen Colbert]

She's so great. I admire her so much. And I enjoy. Like, first time I went on Terry Gross's show, Fresh Air, I was still at the Daily show, and I enjoyed the interview so much that I thought she kind of gave me the ability to be interviewed by being the first person to really interview me.

[Becca]

Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Because I went, oh, that's a. That's how open you can be with someone. Or that's. That's. She. She set the table for me in an interesting way for every interview after that, because she interviewed one of the she's one of the earliest in depth interviews that I did and that she took interest in me, even though as a correspondent, I didn't. I didn't have a project or anything. She just wanted to talk to me, which is fantastic. And, You know, when we first came over to do this show, we didn't really know how to do the show. And I thought, well, I'm definitely not gonna do Terry Gross until I know exactly what I'm doing and why I'm doing it and what I wanna be saying and what my intention is and all that kind of stuff. I'm not gonna go talk to Terry now until I really figure it out. And so nine and a half years go by or something, and Evie and I put out our cookbook. Does this Taste Funny? It's still available. Go get it. And I said in the interview, and I said, now, Terry, I don't know if I've. I don't think I've been on your show since the show started, since the late show started. And she said, are you. Are you joking? I said, no, have I been on. She goes, you've been on three times before. And I guess what that says to me is that unlike the old show where it came out of the box exactly as I intended, and it kind of. We built on it, but it came kind of snapped together out of the box, this one. Even once we kind of knew what we wanted to do. It's always been changing. I've always been in a relationship with the show of wondering whether there's something else I could do. There's a different way to interview somebody. Is there something else we could do in the second act? How should cold opens be? What's the handshake with the audience at the top of the monologue? How long should the monologue be? What's the mix of politics and other things? God, can we possibly get away from Washington today? All those conversations that there are musical guests, comedy guests, variety guests, sketches, all these things. There's. Because this is really a variety show more than that other thing was a satire. There's a variety show. I've constantly been questioning its form.

[Becca]

Yeah, it's so.

[Stephen Colbert]

Or rather my part in the form or what I can add to it. And so it actually kind of seemed like me that I hadn't landed on it enough to go talk to Terry about it. And there's nothing to do with her or my enjoyment of her. I just. It just struck me at that moment, oh, I'm still in my mind nine and a Half years in going, oh, what do I want this to be?

[Becca]

Yeah. And that's kind of beautiful. It's been a working progress the whole time, you know.

[Terry Gross]

So Terry, Terry.

[Becca]

I love Terry. And she also, when she's interviewing someone, you know, she read the whole book, you know, you know, she watched the whole movie and she's talking to you.

[Stephen Colbert]

I know, it's infuriating.

[Becca]

All right, so this is Terry Gross. This is an extended interview with her.

[Stephen Colbert]

More extended than was on the thing.

[Becca]

More extended than was on the thing. Yeah. It's a great interview. You guys had a great time. So this is Terry Gross in her leather jacket on the Late Show POD Show.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thanks, Becca.

[Becca]

Thanks even.

[Steven]

Welcome back to the late show, ladies and gentlemen. My next guest has been the award winning host of npr's fresh air for 50 years. Please welcome back to the late show, terry gross.

[Terry Gross]

Thank you.

[Stephen Colbert]

People excited about Terry Gross.

[Steven]

Isn't that nice? Terry, it's good to see you again.

[Terry Gross]

It's great to see you. I listen to your show all the.

[Steven]

Time and I listen to your show.

[Stephen Colbert]

All the time too.

[Steven]

You were 24 years old when you started hosting Fresh Air 50 years ago.

[Stephen Colbert]

There you are.

[Steven]

Fantastic.

[Terry Gross]

Do you.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm asking for a friend.

[Steven]

Do you recommend doing a show for 50 years?

[Terry Gross]

Well, the good thing about it is longevity.

[Stephen Colbert]

Sure.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

And I haven't had to move, you know, I, I've stayed in one place for the 50 years cuz the show moved. It went from a local show to a national show to more stations. Our staff has evolved over the years, different people. So many great people I've worked with. So always at. Why I started at the NPR affiliate on the University of Buffalo station. Oh, wow.

[Steven]

So it was an affiliate right there.

[Terry Gross]

This is Buffalo, where I went to college.

[Steven]

I know, but right there in Buffalo. I mean, right on the college campus.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, that's where I started.

[Steven]

Oh, that's fantastic.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Did you always want to do radio? Did you always have an affiliation for it?

[Terry Gross]

I loved radio because, you know, I lived in a small apartment in Brooklyn, Sheepshead Bay. I don't hear any applause for Ship Sebay. And you know, I had a small bedroom. It was small with me and my brother and my parents. And the radio was the reach outside. I didn't have a TV in my room, certainly didn't have a computer. They didn't exist yet. And so I'd put the transistor radio under my pillow at night. Not every night, but frequently. So I.

[Steven]

To hide it from your parents.

[Terry Gross]

To hide it from my parents because it was like bedtime.

[Steven]

What were you listening to?

[Terry Gross]

Well, rock and roll.

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, yeah. Leather jacket.

[Terry Gross]

Leather.

[Stephen Colbert]

There you go.

[Steven]

Do you get recognized by your voice? Because, of course, I could pick you out in a minute.

[Terry Gross]

Only in embarrassing situations.

[Stephen Colbert]

Such as?

[Terry Gross]

Such as, early on, when I started hosting Fresh Air, I needed to buy a car. And so I went to the Toyota place, and the salesman there said. And I had the radio on because I wanted to test the speakers. And he said, oh, there's a lady on in the afternoon who's really annoying. And I said, oh, that would be me. And he said, I'm never going to sell a car now. I ended up buying it from him. I mean, gave me a decent price. It was conveniently located.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, exactly.

[Terry Gross]

Yeah.

[Steven]

So approximately.

[Stephen Colbert]

I know.

[Steven]

You have to ballpark it. How many interviews have you done in the last 50 years?

[Terry Gross]

I'm told. I think that it's somewhere between, like, 15,000 or 18,000. I didn't count. Wow.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Terry Gross]

And you. You are one of the most frequent guests on our show.

[Steven]

Oh, really?

[Terry Gross]

Yes, because we love you.

[Steven]

Oh, well, I love being on. The first time I got to be on, I was still on the Daily Show. I didn't. I couldn't believe I got asked to do. I was so nervous, and I had such a good time.

[Terry Gross]

And we talked about this day in God.

[Steven]

Yes, we did.

[Stephen Colbert]

We talked about this day in God.

[Steven]

Exactly.

[Terry Gross]

And your thoughts about the Catholic Church?

[Steven]

Church. And sort of the differentiation between the individuation of the American ideal and the homogeny of Catholic dogma.

[Terry Gross]

Yes, and you schooled me very well.

[Steven]

Well, what have you learned about people after 15,000 long conversations like that?

[Terry Gross]

A fair amount of artists and writers who I've interviewed were sick a lot during childhood and kind of cooped up at home. Were you.

[Steven]

Were you cooped up at home as a child?

[Terry Gross]

No, I felt cooped up, but I wasn't literally cooped up.

[Becca]

Oh, okay.

[Terry Gross]

But I found that a lot of artists and writers, they're forced to stay home, and they kind of busy themselves writing or watching a lot of TV and realizing, oh, I'd love to act, you know? And it's nice to know that, because the worst things in your life can have a payoff sometimes if you're really lucky. Although I don't believe every problem is really a gift, you know, I don't buy that.

[Stephen Colbert]

You don't buy that?

[Terry Gross]

Yeah, this cancer is making me a better person.

[Steven]

No, I don't buy that either.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah, I don't buy that. Either.

[Terry Gross]

I'm sorry I pounded your table.

[Steven]

I won't need it much longer now.

[Terry Gross]

Sorry about that.

[Steven]

In July, Republicans in Congress cut $1.1 billion in funding from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. And on Monday. On Monday, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting voted to dissolve. And as someone who worked in public radio for their whole career, what role did the CPB play in and you starting this life?

[Terry Gross]

Huge. When I started at the college station, there was an NPR affiliate. At that time, you had to have, I think, like five full paid staff members in order to qualify for funding because there are only five full time paid staff members. There were like about 100 volunteers. And that's how I was able to get started as a volunteer. And on the other end, when our show went from a local show to a national one, financially, it could not possibly have happened without a major grant from the CPB to do all the things that we needed to do. And I think it was worth their investment. I mean, their show has endured. So, yeah, it wouldn't have happened.

[Becca]

Thank you.

[Terry Gross]

It wouldn't have happened without the cpb.

[Stephen Colbert]

I was so sorry to hear last.

[Steven]

April about the death of your husband.

[Terry Gross]

Thank you.

[Steven]

Francis Davis. And about two weeks later, you remembered him with a tribute on Fresh Air. Why did you choose to share that with the audience?

[Terry Gross]

A few reasons. One is that he had been a jazz contributor to our show. He'd been a jazz critic on our show, and it was local. And then for the first couple of months, maybe he was doing it on the national show until he felt like, I'm not really a radio person. I'm really more of a writer. So it felt like he's still part of the FRESH AIR family. But I also felt while I was like, in that really early stage of grieving, that before coming back, I had to explain what I had just been through. And also I wanted to share a piece of him. So I did it. I didn't say, like, we had such a great love. Let me share some of our memories together. It was like, this is what he did. He was a music critic, mostly jazz. So I'm going to play some of the music that he loved and then read some of his writing that reveals something about the music that he loved. And that felt so right to me. And it also gave me not only an opportunity, but an excuse and a deadline to immerse myself in his writing. Some people find their loved ones in their clothes or, you know, special possessions. I find my husband in his books.

[Steven]

It can be hard to. It can be hard to look directly at your grief. And was that a way. Is that a lens through which it allowed you to look at your grief?

[Terry Gross]

Yeah. And to look fully at him, because the writing really was him. He didn't write much personally, but it was him. It was his sensibility, it was his language. I fell in love with his writing at about the same time. I fell in love with his writing first. And I fell in love with him.

[Steven]

In the 10 months since your husband passed, have there been any old interviews that have come back to you that you have turned to that have special meaning for you now?

[Terry Gross]

Yes. I interviewed Maurice Sendak close to the same time. I think, that you interviewed him. I think you went to his home.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

He was no longer mobile. He was no longer to get out of the house. So he had come out with his first children's book in years. And I thought. And I had been interviewing him since probably the late 1970s, and I thought, this is a good opportunity to call Maurice and basically just give him a shout and say, congratulations on the new book. But he ended up knowing that he was close to death and really wanting to talk about it. So he just started talking about how he had lost his brother, he lost his two best friends, but life was beautiful. He still had Bach to listen to. He still had the trees to look at out the window, and he'll be crying to the grave, you know, because he wanted to live longer, and it was just so beautiful. And he ended the interview by saying, live your life. Live your life. Live your life. And I've repeated that to myself so many times over the years, including when Francis died, because it was also a way of saying, keep living. You've had this terrible loss. You're still alive, you know, so live it. Feel what you're feeling and make the most of what you have. And that was a great tape loop to have, as opposed to. Oh, no. Yeah.

[Steven]

Well, you know, one of the.

[Terry Gross]

And Stephen, I know you as a child, you lost your father and two brothers in a plane crash.

[Stephen Colbert]

I did, yes.

[Terry Gross]

And I've been thinking about the difference between sudden, unexpected, tragic death like that and my experience with my husband, going through, like, five years of watching him because he had emphysema and because he had Parkinson's. Watch him slowly just lose, inch by inch, parts of himself and parts of his ability to. To live his life. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yeah.

[Steven]

People experience grief in many different ways. It affects their lives in different ways at different times of their lives. How they approach it is so different for each person. There's A commonality to it, which I think it is unavoidable to eventually look at it. That's all. Grief is almost something that is outside of you and comes to you. Like, people often use the phrase, like there's an old phrase, like, visited by grief. And it's as if grief is something that comes and sits with you and you can decide whether to hold its hand.

[Terry Gross]

I literally felt like I had a visitation after he died. I don't know if you've had dreams like this, but I dreamt that he came back and we were walking into the bedroom together because it was bedtime. And I said to him, because I thought it was real, you know, I didn't realize I was dreaming. And I said to him, how am I talking to you? You're not here. And then he just vanished. Kind of like in a movie when somebody, like, turns into a ghost and they kind of. There's a fade and suddenly they're gone. And I thought, like, did I chase him away by saying, you're not really here?

[Steven]

I think that those dreams are not uncommon for people. And many people have told me stories like that. I've had the same experience myself.

[Terry Gross]

You do? You do?

[Stephen Colbert]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven]

When my mother died, I remember having a very vivid dream. We were at union station in D.C. which is where I was born, where she had me, not in union station in D.C. and I walk there, and she said, all my brothers and sisters. And there's my mother in her big winter jacket. And she turned around, there she was, the mother I remember my whole life. And I said, mom, you're alive. I must be dreaming.

[Stephen Colbert]

And she said, Oh, good.

[Steven]

Is the only way you'll stay awake. And that was it.

[Terry Gross]

Wow. How did you interpret that?

[Steven]

That the messages that we get internally from our loved ones are ways for us to be aware of the world and how we feel about it? Or that our dreams tell us things about ourselves that we cannot in waking life, admit to ourselves.

[Terry Gross]

Right.

[Steven]

We can feel things in our dreams. We can know things about ourselves that we can't know in waking life. And I don't mean prophetically or that there's some astral plane from where these messages come. We talk to ourselves in our dreams, and we wake up to certain feelings in our dreams. That's what I think it meant.

[Terry Gross]

Do you think she was also telling you to live your life, to stay awake?

[Steven]

I think that's a completely valid interpretation. 100%. As a matter of fact, I'm grateful for that interpretation. Thank you.

[Terry Gross]

Oh, thank you. Yeah.

[Steven]

Carrie thank you so much.

[Terry Gross]

I'm so sorry that you should have been canceled.

[Announcer]

I love you.

[Terry Gross]

So.

[Steven]

You can talk on the phone. New episodes of Fresh Air on NPR every weekday. Terry Gross, everybody. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert.

[Stephen Colbert]

Just one more thing.

[Steven]

If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives.

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[Terry Gross]

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