Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor | In Deep Doodle

Summary

The Late Show Pod Show with Stephen Colbert

Episode: Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor | In Deep Doodle
Date: September 10, 2025
Guest: Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor

---

Episode Overview

This episode features a timely and thoughtful conversation between Stephen Colbert and Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, focusing on recent Supreme Court decisions, the controversial use of the "shadow docket," and Sotomayor's approach to collegiality and justice. With both humor and gravity, the discussion shines light on the inner workings of the highest court, the importance of dissent, and the humanity required in upholding the Constitution.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Justice Sotomayor’s Background and New Book

• Justice Sotomayor is introduced as the first Latina Supreme Court Justice and the author of a new book inspired by her late mother, titled Just Shine.
• The book draws on lessons from her mother, emphasizing empathy and looking for the best in others—even in those you disagree with.
  • "She taught me to look for the best in people. That was the lesson that moment gave me." (Justice Sotomayor, 18:11)
• Sotomayor candidly applies her mother’s wisdom to Supreme Court dynamics:
  • "[M]y colleagues... can be really frustrating. And there are moments when I want to scurry out of the room, but I don't. What I look for to maintain our collegiality is the good in them... There's good in almost everyone. I say almost everyone because I was a prosecutor, and there are some evil people." (Justice Sotomayor, 18:54)

---

The “Shadow Docket” Explained

• Colbert raises concerns about the Supreme Court’s emergency (shadow) docket—cases ruled on without a written opinion or justification.
  • "You can just say, this is the decision. We're not going to explain ourselves." (Stephen Colbert, 19:44)
• Sotomayor clarifies and contextualizes the practice:
  • There is no requirement for written opinions—tradition and the need for public trust drive this expectation.
  • "What has created the expectation of a writing is tradition... people will respect the court only if they understand why we're ruling." (Justice Sotomayor, 19:36)
  • The emergency docket addresses urgent requests outside the normal appellate process; its rulings are not typically final and may not set precedent.
  • "The emergency docket is just sort of a way station in that process. It’s not the final end of the case." (Justice Sotomayor, 21:44)

---

The Rise in Shadow Docket Cases

• Colbert: Notes a marked increase in emergency decisions, particularly during recent administrations.
  • "Why do you think they're accelerating?" (Stephen Colbert, 26:17)
• Sotomayor: Attributes the trend to the Court’s willingness to intervene more often, which encourages more emergency requests.
  • "To the extent that we have altered the natural course of history by granting more consideration of emergency cases, we invite more of them." (Justice Sotomayor, 26:33)
  • Traditionally, the Court waited for full litigation; now, factors like executive and legislative urgency can outweigh previous norms, much to her dissent.

---

The ICE Ruling and Sotomayor’s Dissent

• Discussion Focus: The Court’s recent emergency ruling letting ICE target individuals for deportation based on race, language, and occupation.
  • "[T]he court ruled from that emergency docket that ICE can round up... people of Hispanic heritage or [who] spoke Spanish... But really anyone for any reason?" (Stephen Colbert, 28:14)
• Sotomayor: Pushes back, ensuring fairness to the majority’s rationale but reiterating her strong disagreement.
  • "They claimed there was more than those two factors... working in low wage jobs." (Justice Sotomayor, 29:10)
  • "That's what they said. Let's not go any further. Okay, that's what they said." (Justice Sotomayor, 29:34)
• Colbert reads from her dissent:
  • "That decision of the majority is yet another grave misuse of our emergency docket. We should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish, and appears to work in a low wage job rather than stand idly by while our constitutional freedoms are lost. I dissent." (Stephen Colbert, 29:50)
• Sotomayor: Urges Americans to read Supreme Court decisions themselves:
  • "Too many people hear what a Supreme Court decision is, and they come to immediate conclusions based on... their personal feelings... Read the opinions. You're going to be shocked—not in this one, but in others." (Justice Sotomayor, 30:45)

---

On the Importance of Public Understanding

• Sotomayor encourages public engagement and legal literacy:
  • "US Citizens, read the decisions... I go to a lot of audiences, including those with lawyers, and say, how many of you have read a Supreme Court decision cover to cover? And I get a handful of arms that are raised. Says a lot about us, doesn't it?" (Justice Sotomayor, 32:19)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Collegiality and Empathy

• "My mother was right. There’s good in almost everyone. I say almost everyone because I was a prosecutor, and there are some evil people."
  — Justice Sonia Sotomayor (18:54)

On Explaining Supreme Court Rulings

• "People will respect the court only if they understand why we're ruling the way we are... We write in the hopes of convincing all of you, the public."
  — Justice Sonia Sotomayor (19:36)

On the Emergency Docket

• "The emergency docket is just sort of a way station in that process... Something can change. Now, practically, some of our rulings do end up having permanent consequences, but not in terms of the end of the case."
  — Justice Sonia Sotomayor (21:44)

On Reading Supreme Court Opinions

• "US Citizens, read the decisions, don't wait on news reports."
  — Justice Sonia Sotomayor (32:19)

On a Dissent Worth Reading

• "[T]he decision of the majority is yet another grave misuse of our emergency docket. We should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish, and appears to work in a low wage job... I dissent."
  — Justice Sonia Sotomayor (read by Stephen Colbert, 29:50)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Justice Sotomayor shares her mother’s influence: 17:09–19:12
• Shadow docket explained & rationale for Supreme Court writing: 19:12–23:28
• Discussion on increase of emergency docket cases: 26:17–28:14
• The ICE ruling and Sotomayor’s dissent: 28:14–31:22
• On reading Supreme Court opinions: 31:22–32:53

---

Tone and Style

The episode balances Stephen Colbert's trademark humor and satire (especially in his monologue on horoscopes and the Trump-Epstein scandal) with respectful and probing questions. Justice Sotomayor responds with clarity, warmth, and candor, providing accessible explanations that make Supreme Court processes understandable—even as she urges deeper civic engagement.

---

Conclusion

This episode provides a vital, engaging look at the current state of the Supreme Court and the role of dissent, transparency, and empathy in American justice, as told through the lived wisdom of Justice Sotomayor. Listeners gain not only insight into recent critical rulings but also a heartfelt call to informed citizenship.

Transcript

[Stephen Colbert]

Hey, everybody. Stephen Colbert here about to read the copy for our sponsor. This is from our friends at Wonderful Pistachios. And I was the wonderful pistachio spokesman for years. Yeah, I have a real close association with nut meat. Okay. You know what they say when they reach for a snack? Don't hold back. And that's exactly the approach with Wonderful Pistachios. The don't hold back snack. These little wonders are so tasty, it feels like getting away with something. But surprise. Each serving has 6 grams of protein and 0 grams of regret. That's right. No guilt. Just glory, glory in our nuts. Whether it's a satisfying crack of in shell pistachios, and that's capitalized in shell, or the smooth, instant gratification of no shells. No judgment. That's just it. Just eat. No judgment. I take issue with one thing. It's instant gratification. It's super tasty smooth.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

It's a hard nut smooth.

[Stephen Colbert]

Exactly. I mean, even out of the shell, it's still a nut.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

We can't disparage the nuts.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

You.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not disparaging the nut. I'm describing the nut.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Don't disparage any flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm not. I am celebrating the pistachio right now. I'm on board. I love pistachios.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

I love.

[Stephen Colbert]

I love crushed pistachio. Like a pistachio crusted trout. Oh, unbelievable. Instead of a trout amandine, a trout pistachio. Fantastic. Enough butter? Who cares?

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Very good.

[Stephen Colbert]

And I love pistachio ice cream.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Have you had the sea salt and vinegar? Wonderful pistachio. It's delicious. I get them.

[Stephen Colbert]

I didn't even know I get them.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Before the softball games.

[Stephen Colbert]

But that's. You see, it's been a while since I've been the spokesman for wonderful pistachios. I didn't realize we'd achieved new pistachio technology.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. Wonderful pistachios has every snack style covered. Right now. There's an obsession with jalapeno lime. There is an obsession session. It's almost a disorder. It's spicy, it's zesty. It's basically a flavor roller coaster in a nut. Snacking on the go. Grab a bag of no shells. Feeling contemplative and want to work for it a little. So earning it, they're saying if you want to earn your nut, crack open those in shell beauties. Either way, it's snacking like a champ. So the next time hunger strikes, don't hold back. Unless it's a hunger strike. And Then it's important that you do. Because whatever you're doing that for, I'm sure it's a worthwhile cause. Snack like you mean it with wonderful pistachios. Visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

That was a wonderful.

[Stephen Colbert]

I wonder what more there is to learn. We just told them so much. We just told them so much about pistachios. But evidently there's a whole other world. There's an unexplored vista.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

They got a bunch of flavors. They got dill pickle, jalapeno lime, as we learned, smoky barbecue. There's a lot of different flavors.

[Stephen Colbert]

Wow. And I would not disparage any of them.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

No, no, no.

[Stephen Colbert]

Bring it on.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Nothing bad to say.

[Stephen Colbert]

Nut me, nut. Nut me with nut meat.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

We're nut.

[Stephen Colbert]

No, we got nothing but nut. Nutty, nutty, nutty, nutty. Talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about, talk about nutty.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Good.

[Stephen Colbert]

Possibility means you have a chance. Passion opens the door to all possibilities.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy.

[Stephen Colbert]

I want to be an astronaut, be an artist, be an actress to visit another country. All I need is a backpack and a pair of shoes and I'll find a way I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. I've never felt like more things are possible than right now.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

In the right shoes, anything's possible.

[Stephen Colbert]

Dsw.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Countless shoes at brag worthy prices.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Imagine the possibilities.

[Stephen Colbert]

Welcome one and all in here out there, Mr. And Mrs. America and all the ships at sea. Welcome to the Late Show. I'm your host, Stephen Colbert. You know, folks, you might be feeling. You guys might be feeling this. No, lately it feels like the stars blindly run and we are careening into a meaningless void.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Oh, yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, if you feel. Here's the thing. According to the New York Times, we now know why. Because your zodiac sign is 2000 years out of date. 2000 years off. No wonder today's horoscope said I should clear my house of clutter and embrace Emperor Tiberius. Conquest of Dalmatia. Here's the thing. Because the earth, you know, as it goes around it wobbles on its axis. As it goes around the sun, the position of the stars in the sky change, you know, once every 70 years by one degree. So that adds up. After 2,000 years, everyone's star signs have changed by a month. I thought I was a Taurus. Turns out I'm a Gemini. That changes everything. It's like, you know what now? I mean, now what. What do I do now? How do I, how do I live my life? It's like thinking you were a Charlotte and then finding out you're a Hufflepuff. It makes no sense. Today. I gotta say this. Today, Donald Trump's horoscope should have warned him he'd have a surprise run in with a long lost pervert. Because the story of his disturbing friendship with Jeffrey Epstein keeps getting more. Earlier this summer, the Wall Street Journal reported that back in 2003, Trump contributed to a book for Epstein's 50th birthday and the letter he wrote was a Picasso of purvitude. According to the Journal's reporting, his note was framed by a hand drawn outline of a naked woman and featured what appeared to be the future president's signature as a squiggly Donald below her waist, mimicking pubic hair. But wait, there's more. The note read in part. Happy Birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret. Trump denied everything and sued the Wall street journal for $20 billion. Calling the letter. Calling the letter. You guys were a little late now. Calling the letter non existent. Turns out existent because yesterday the House Oversight Committee released it and whoops, a pubie. That sure as hell looks legit. It's directly from the Jeffrey Epstein estate. It's exactly what the Wall Street Journal reported. And the signature identically matches a bunch of ones from the same era. And you know what they say you if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, that duck should not be allowed within 300 yards of a school. Despite this evidence, despite all this evidence, Trump's allies are pretending that there's no evidence. Here's Speaker Mike Johnson today.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Mr. Speaker, do you think the Trump birthday note to Epstein is real?

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't. They say it's not. I don't. I don't think it's real. They say it's not. While I have you, have you seen the President's new clothes? He's hired the finest tailor in all the kingdom. Now he has gorgeous robes, gorgeous robes that we can all clearly see. Although I don't know why he pinned that dead baby squirrel to the crotch. While Johnson is arguing a powerful nuh, other Republicans have a more sinister theory. Here's Tim Burchett. I mean, anybody can do a signature. We've seen the auto pin has been used quite a bit with the Biden administration. So you think really, someone might have just forged this somehow and sent this to the app somehow? It's so easy to do. Yes, it's so Easy to do. I mean, that might look like Trump's signature, but we all know what really happened. Follow me down the truth hole. The year is 2003, and everyone agrees. Stacy's mom has got it going. On the 50th birthday party of renowned financier Jeffrey Epstein. Suddenly, a time traveling Joe Biden bursts into the room. He's there to sabotage apprentice host Donald Trump by forging his signature in a birthday book that will be discovered in 22 years. As Joe sets up his notorious auto pen, he hesitates. Maybe this is wrong. We can't really frame America's greatest future president, can we? The answer comes from an obscure Illinois politician who utters three words that will change history forever. Uh, yes, we can. And no. Look, look, folks. No look. Come on. No. Look, look, Joe, when you're done, let's make me a fake birth certificate. Now, to be fair, not all Republicans are saying this is a pervy note, you know, that happens to just be fake. Some simply say they hadn't seen the note, including Reps. Tom Tiffany, Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, as well as Representative Jim Jordan, who said, I haven't seen it.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Don't buy it.

[Stephen Colbert]

And if Jim Jordan didn't see it, it didn't happen. Especially. Especially not in the showers at Ohio State. Google it. Google. But the most pathetic denial of all came from second first son Eric Trump. I can tell you my father does not sketch out cartoon drawings. He certainly my dad. My dad certainly did not write birthday cards. My dad doesn't even remember birthdays. What he does is he goes out of town on a business trip, and when he comes back, he brings you a present. A new mommy. Okay. You good? Good. For time. We got to see Trump's letter because the House Oversight Committee put out the whole 200 page birthday book. Compiled by Ghislaine Maxwell, it is a collection of flattering and celebratory letters, often highly sexualized from people who knew Epstein, also known in legal circles. As evidence, Trump's letter wasn't the only incriminating thing about him in the book. There was also a letter from a longtime Mar A Lago member, which featured a photo of Epstein holding a novelty check, which had been mocked up to appear that it was sent from Trump, along with a note claiming that Epstein sold Trump a woman for $22,500. Okay, okay. Probably a joke, but when people who know you personally make an inside joke about sex crimes, it's not great. It's like starting a best man speech with. I've been friends with Theodore for years. Or as I call him, bestiality Ted. The book is split into sections, including family, Brooklyn, girlfriends, children, friends, science, girl friends, special assistants, and business. Not the point, but that is a crazy way to organize a book. This cookbook is split into appetizers, colors, main courses, shirts. I own desserts for two top 10 lawnmowers and women Jeffrey Epstein sold to Donald Trump. Also in the book, Epstein's birth certificate, photos from his childhood to adulthood, photos of women in bikinis, and a chocolate chip cookie recipe. That means at least once over the past 20 years, this interaction has taken place. Wow, these cookies are really good. Where'd you get this recipe? Don't worry about it. Seriously, stop asking questions about the cookies. This book is everything you think. For some reason, there's a page in which a woman apparently dipped her breast in paint and smooshed it against the paper in honor of Epstein's, quote, 50th barf day. But when you're looking through this book, every day is barf day. Now, now, Trump's friends aren't all dead pedophiles. He also has six close pals on the Supreme Court. And yesterday, they were at it again. In a courageously unsigned order. The court is letting ICE agents target people for deportation based on their race or language. What the hell? Wait, are they saying they can arrest you for speaking Spanish? That's going to ruin karaoke night. All right, ma', am, step away from the mic. You're being detained for aggravated La Bamba with intent to despacito. My guest tonight, Justice Sonia Sotomayor. The court's the court's first Hispanic member issued a blistering dissent, writing the administration has, quote, all but declared that all Latinos, US Citizens or not, are fair game to be said. Yes, any Latino could be deported at any moment, though I think it might be hard for them to find the most famously elusive Latina of Carmen Sandiego. Now, this is a big and troubling story, and a really great show would follow this up with a conversation with Supreme Court Justice Soni Sotomayor. And we got a really great show for you tonight.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Coming up, Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor. At Maurices, we're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right, the ones that go from work days to weekends and everywhere in between, the ones that simply make you feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. With 25 sizes, five lengths, and six denim brands, you've got options and fit experts in every store. To make jean shopping easier, find great jeans starting at 29.90 in stores and@marisa's.com. buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them.

[Stephen Colbert]

I just.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Whoa, wait.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

You mean finance?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Yeah, finance.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options, all within my budget.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

That's cool.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right? That's what they said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Stephen Colbert]

Ladies and gentlemen, my first guest tonight is an author and brilliant legal mind who made history as the first Latina justice of the U.S. supreme Court. Please welcome to the Ed Sullivan Justice Sonia Sotomayor.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

That's nice.

[Stephen Colbert]

Thank you for being here. Y.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

My friend.

[Stephen Colbert]

Yes.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

I was really heartbroken to learn that your job doesn't come with lifetime tenure like mine does.

[Stephen Colbert]

Are there any openings in your work? Because I'm looking for a gig in June.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

All right.

[Stephen Colbert]

I'm so glad you're here. I really enjoy talking to you. Sometimes the universe conspires to bring us the perfect guest at the perfect moment. And you are the perfect guest tonight. We'll get to that in a minute. We'll get to that in a minute.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

All right.

[Stephen Colbert]

Did you see any of the monologue I did? Okay.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

All right.

[Stephen Colbert]

You don't have to issue an opinion from the bench right now. Lots to talk about. First, I want to talk about. You've issued another beautiful book inspired by your late mother. It's called Just Shine. One of the things that I understand from the story is that you say that she says, you don't know what's going on with somebody else. You may disagree with them.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

You have to ask them. Yeah.

[Stephen Colbert]

Does that come in handy at your job?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Oh, a lot. But she showed me something else, which is you can't really judge people by their opinions because you may differ in them. You may not like what people do. One of my favorite stories, she had a friend who talked nonstop. How many of you have those kinds of friends? I bet a lot of you. Okay. They walk in, they never stop talking. My brother and I would scurry out of the room as fast as we could. My brother would probably go out to play basketball. I would go hide in my room and read. My mother would sit there and just listen. And one day, after this woman had left, I looked at her and said, how do you have that patience? And she said, sonia, it can be frustrating at moments, but I always remember that she really has such a wonderful heart. When I've been sick, she comes over and she's the first one to bring me food if I'm stuck not having a ride somewhere. She didn't drive at the time. I call her up and she offers before I say anything. Not everybody does that. She taught me to look for the best in people. That was the lesson that moment gave me. And it's what I look for in my colleagues. You know, I don't agree with them much, at least not with the majority. And they can be really frustrating. And there are moments when I want to scurry out of the room, but I don't. And what I look for to maintain our collegiality is the good in them. Because my mother was right. There's good in almost everyone. I say almost everyone because I was a prosecutor, and there are some evil people.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, let's talk about some of the things that might frustrate you at work. Let's talk about the shadow docket. Let's talk about the shadow docket, the emergency docket that requires no written opinion or justification.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

First of all. Huh?

[Stephen Colbert]

And second, what. How does that work? Why does that even exist?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Well, let's start with your working premise. There is nothing that requires us to issue an opinion at all.

[Stephen Colbert]

You can just say, this is the decision. We're not going to explain ourselves.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Exactly. But that's of any court. Right? All right. What has created the expectation of a writing is tradition, and it's something more powerful than that, which is that people will respect the court only if they understand why we're ruling. You know, we don't have the power of the purse, so we can't threaten people with money. We don't have an army, so we can't use force. What do we have? The power of persuasion. And so we write in the hopes of convincing all of you, the public, that there's a reason for why we're ruling the way we are. And if our reasons don't withstand the test of time, then people are going to no longer respect the court.

[Stephen Colbert]

Or if there's no rationale given, if you give a compelling rationale, and I understand that, and then my argument doesn't hold up in front of it. If you don't do that at all, it's just Ruling by fiat.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

It feels right. Yes and no. Because there's where you have to understand what the emergency docket is.

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't have to because I'm not a lawyer. Right?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

That's true. That's true. Then I'll try to explain it. Go ahead. Yes. As you know, I love teaching, so it's okay. The emergency docket is a motion by a party that's out of the ordinary course of litigation. The ordinary course of litigation is you go to the district court, the trial level, you win or lose, you don't like what happened, you appeal to the court of appeals. Once that case is finished and the court of appeal rules finally on the case, then you can appeal to the Supreme Court and say, I'll hear. Will you hear this case? Those guys below got it wrong. Or one of them got it wrong. Whatever. That's the normal course of litigation. An emergency docket issue arises because that normal process is being truncated at some point in the process. And usually in the emergency docket, it's at the very beginning of cases, it's at the very start of the case. And so the question becomes, do we arrest something? Do we stop something that's happening at that moment, or not now? Most of the time when we do that, it doesn't mean the case has ended. The case is going to continue. When it goes back down below, and it is possible when it goes down below that, more evidence, different evidence, better arguments are raised, and the case will come out exactly the same way or in a different way, but the case will still go on. And at the end of the case, you'll come back to the court. So the emergency docket is just sort of a way station in that process. It's not the final end of the case. Something can change. Now, practically, some of our rulings do end up having permanent consequences, but not in terms of the end of the case. That doesn't happen until more has happened below. That's why an emergency ruling that's unexplained is not going to control anything but that moment until the case ends.

[Stephen Colbert]

So people would not refer to emergency ruling as precedent?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Well, it's precedent to the extent that.

[Stephen Colbert]

There is reasoning, but if no reasoning.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Is given, then it doesn't control the case.

[Stephen Colbert]

Is there a reason why someone might want to not issue a rationale so that in the future people can't cite it as precedent? Well, if, for instance, another president who they don't agree with brings the exact same kind of case, citing precedent on a shadow docket decision with no rationale. They could say no, that's not what we meant at all. What did you mean? I'm not going to tell you. Why don't you guess?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Well, generally that doesn't quite happen that way. But if the circumstances are identical in the emergency posture, then it controls we.

[Stephen Colbert]

Have to take a quick break.

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

The first few weeks of school are in the books. Now it's time to keep that momentum going. IXL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve. Teachers move fast, but IXL keeps your child right on track, building skills at the same pace they're learning in school. IXL is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies. It covers math, language arts, science and social studies from Pre K through 12th grade with content that's engaging, personalized and yes, actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep learning going without making it feel like school. If your child is struggling, this is the smartest investment you can make. A single hour of tutoring costs more than a month of IXL make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and listeners of this podcast can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today. @ixcelearning.com audio Visit ixcelerning.com audio to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more [e-mail] listen just go to indeed.com listen right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com listen. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Stephen Colbert]

There have been more emergency docket decisions in this administration or for the Trump administrations than there were for, say, the Obama administrations or the Biden administrations or the Bush administrations. Why do you think they're accelerating?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

You know, success breeds new attempts and to the extent that we have altered the natural course of history by granting more consideration of emergency dockets of the emergency cases, we invite more of them.

[Stephen Colbert]

Significantly more.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Significantly more.

[Stephen Colbert]

Right.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

You know, in the past, the court was loath to grant emergency intervention. Most of the time we figured if two courts below had given careful consideration to something, we shouldn't intrude until the case ended, which is the normal course of things. That has changed. Now, some people believe on my court that executive, that any time you stop a law that has been duly passed by Congress or you stop an executive like the president from doing some policy that they think is important, that those factors outweigh some of the normal considerations. You can read my writing to find out why I disagree with that. Because each circumstance is different. And so some laws are by my druthers patently unconstitutional. And one should be more careful in those cases to explain why you might be intervening in a way that's unexpected or the proceedings below are still going on and the courts below need more guidance as to what might have been wrong in their thinking.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, let's talk about the decision yesterday. Yesterday the court ruled from that emergency docket that ICE can round up. In this case, it was people of Hispanic heritage or spoke Spanish in cases of Los Angeles and the California ice, arrests or detainments. But really anyone for any reason?

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Well, no, in fairness, I'm not a.

[Stephen Colbert]

Lawyer, but I'm going to push back here because in this case they're saying those are the circumstances. But isn't the. That if they're just looking for reasonable suspicion, which is a much lower bar than probable cause, they could make up new rationales for a different group of people who they feel are associated with some crime that has to be prevented.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Now, let me stop you. In fairness to the majority, and by the way, I didn't agree with them.

[Stephen Colbert]

And no, I have your dissent right here.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Yeah, and I didn't agree with them.

[Stephen Colbert]

Powerfully.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Thank you for giving me the adjective. Okay, I didn't agree with them, but they claimed there was more than those two factors. Being Latino and speaking Spanish, I don't think the third adds much to the equation. But they do. They say it's because they are working in low wage jobs.

[Stephen Colbert]

So people in low wage jobs have fewer protections.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

That's what they say.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well, that's the upshot of it is.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Well, that's what they said. Let's not go any further. Okay, that's what they said. And they're working at jobs where illegal aliens typically work. That's the claim all right, now I explain and read my dissent, please.

[Stephen Colbert]

I will. That decision of the majority is yet another grave misuse of our emergency docket. We should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish, and appears to work in a low wage job rather than stand idly by while our constitutional freedoms are lost. I dissent. I have the whole thing here.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

I know.

[Stephen Colbert]

Just in case.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Fine.

[Stephen Colbert]

Stephen, I'm gonna. Sometimes you. Sometimes. I sometimes read your decisions from the bench, but because you guys aren't in session right now, I have the whole thing. If you'd like to read it right now on air. Because I love Eugene Levy, but I'll cancel him right now if you want to do this.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

No, but, Steven, you're raising a big point, which is I want you to read it, and I want you to read the concurring opinion. Too many people hear what a Supreme Court decision is, and they come to immediate conclusions based on what only their personal feelings are. You shouldn't do that. You should read the opinions. You're going to be shocked. Not in this one, but in others. And be clear. Not in this one, but in others.

[Stephen Colbert]

Where.

[Justice Sonia Sotomayor]

Where you're going to read the majority opinion and you're going to step back and say, you know, they've made some really good points. And then you read the dissent and you say, they've made some really good points, and you realize that the questions are close. It only comes before the court generally when there's a split among the judges across the United States, because we're there to resolve differences of opinions among the court. Courts in the U.S. what we call a circuit split, that means reasonable people across reasonable judges across the country have disagreed, and the Supreme Court is there to decide the question. So the cases aren't easy. I was joking about this one because I thought this one was a little easy. But, you know, okay, they didn't. But my point is, US Citizens read the decisions, don't wait on news reports. I'm not going to put your audience on the hook, but I go to a lot of audiences, including those with lawyers, and say, how many of you have read a Supreme Court decision cover to cover? And I get a handful of arms that are raised. Says a lot about us, doesn't it? And if you gave me the half hour, I'd read it. But no, I don't want to do it because I want them to go to the Internet and find.

[Stephen Colbert]

Justice Sotomayor. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening to the Late Show Pod show with Stephen Colbert. Just one more thing. If you want to see more of me, come to The Late Show YouTube channel for more clips and exclusives. Now streaming on Paramount Plus. Someone is trying to frame us?

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Until our names are cleared?

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

We're fugitives from intervals?

[Stephen Colbert]

Like Bonnie and Clyde? With better snacks? Espionage? You still as good a shot as you used to be?

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

Better?

[Stephen Colbert]

Is there love? Language? We like to walk that fine line? Between techno thriller and romantic comedy?

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

We make up our own rules.

[Stephen Colbert]

NCIS Tony and Ziva. Now streaming on Paramount plus. Now streaming on Paramount. Someone is trying to frame us? Until our names are cleared?

[Sidekick/Co-host (possibly a comedic guest or writer)]

We're fugitives from Interpol?

[Stephen Colbert]

Like Bonnie and Clyde? We're better snacks? NCIS Tony and Ziva. Now streaming on Paramount plus.