Best Of: How Law Firm Owners Save Their Sanity feat. Marc Cerniglia

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Law Firm Marketing Minute

Episode: Best Of: How Law Firm Owners Save Their Sanity feat. Marc Cerniglia
Date: May 9, 2025
Host: Spotlight Branding
Featured Guest: Marc Cerniglia (CEO, Spotlight Branding)

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Overview

This episode dives into the essential yet challenging art of law firm client communication, with special emphasis on expectation-setting, handling feedback (including negative reviews), and the sanity-saving power of effective processes for law firm owners. Marc Cerniglia, CEO of Spotlight Branding, shares insights tailored for small law firm owners, blending practical advice with a relatable, conversational tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundation: Setting Clear Expectations

• Client Communication Starts Early:
  Marc emphasizes that effective communication begins at the first client touchpoint—whether it’s your website, emails, or initial consultations. It’s all about setting the right expectations up front.

  "Every business, even a law firm, has a sales process... You're setting expectations or you ought to be." — Marc, [01:34]

• Managing vs. Guaranteeing Outcomes:
  Setting expectations is not about guaranteeing results, but clarifying what it’s like to work with your firm and what clients should realistically expect during the process.

  "A law firm can't guarantee an outcome in a case, but this is what it looks like to work with us." — Marc, [03:01]

• Simplicity Matters:
  Unmet expectations are the root of client dissatisfaction, often due to either unclear communication or incorrect assumptions by the client.

  "A happy customer starts with someone whose expectations were met." — Marc, [04:04]

• Example Used:
  The Skittles analogy highlights how simple, consistent expectations underpin satisfaction.

2. The Double-Edged Sword: Owner Involvement in Client Relations

• Emotional Investment:
  Law firm owners are deeply invested in their client relationships—this brings both benefits (personal touch, comprehensive awareness) and challenges (emotional fatigue, lack of boundaries).

  "Probably most business owners get too emotionally invested, don’t know how to separate emotionally from a client conflict." — Marc, [05:26]

• Scaling Communication:
  As a firm grows, owners may have to hand off communication to team members, which requires creating reliable customer service systems and trusting staff.

  "If you do hand that over to someone else, you got to build customer service systems and processes for them to follow." — Marc, [06:34]

• Stepping Back:
  Delegating client communications lets owners “work on the business, rather than in it." — Marc, [07:10]

3. Feedback Loops and Client Check-ins

• Routine Feedback is Crucial:
  After expectations are set, checking in ensures you’re meeting or exceeding them—and these check-ins can uncover unmet needs.

  “After you've properly set clients' expectations, now you have to actually check in with them: are those expectations being met? Are we falling below?” — Marc, [08:00]

• Uncovering New Opportunities:
  Asking “what else would you want from us?” can reveal new service opportunities or client needs.

4. Handling Negative Reviews and Difficult Feedback

• Immediate Private Outreach:
  When faced with a negative review, reach out privately first with empathy and an earnest attempt to resolve the concern.

  "The best outcome for you as the business and the business owner is for that review to be taken down... I'm willing to suck up my pride a little bit if it means that review gets taken down." — Marc, [10:09]

• Public Response Strategy:
  If removal isn’t possible, always respond publicly, showing empathy while appropriately clarifying misunderstandings or unfairness in a respectful manner.

  "100% of the time, you should respond to a negative review." — Marc, [12:30]

• Misattributed Reviews:
  Use platform dispute tools for reviews clearly posted in error (e.g., someone calls a law firm a realtor).
• Preventative Approach:
  Ongoing feedback solicitation can preempt negativity spilling onto review platforms.

5. Staying Visible and Engaged with Clients

• Consistent Contact:
  Regular touchpoints like email newsletters, physical cards, and social media keep clients feeling valued and connected to your brand.

  "Nike still wants to market to you... They want you to continue to think Nike is a cool brand." — Marc, [15:58]

• Professional Vibe Reinforcement:
  Even in service industries, visible, “modern” marketing and communication enhances perceived credibility and expertise.

  "It just reinforces to your existing and past [clients] that you're up with the trends... you're marketing yourself." — Marc, [17:19]

• Referral Generation:
  Satisfied, engaged clients are more likely to refer you—creating a virtuous cycle.

6. The "Give, Give, Give, Ask" Philosophy

• Value-Based Marketing:
  Focus on delivering educational, useful content instead of simply selling or asking for referrals right away.

  "In all of your marketing, you know, you're giving way more than you're looking to receive… Give, give, give, ask." — Marc, [18:29]

• Flexible Content:
  Relevance matters, but personality and value delivery (even in light-hearted formats) build brand affinity.

  "If somebody was giving value through cat dances and things like that, that's okay too..." — Marc, [19:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On setting expectations:

  "If you can’t nail that, everything else is... you’re starting with one leg instead of two." — Marc, [04:59]

• On negative reviews:

  "It takes energy and effort to go leave a negative review... If I feel like I got it out to you, I don't feel like the next thing I need to go do is put it online." — Marc, [14:20]

• On regular communication:

  "Whether that's them feeling like you're cool or you're experts or you're trustworthy, you're credible... pick your word, pick your vibe." — Marc, [17:45]

• On giving value:

  "What matters most is that the content is giving... in a relevant way to your business." — Marc, [19:14]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:56 – Owning a law firm: Business owner vs. lawyer mindsets
• 01:13 – The primacy of setting client expectations
• 03:01 – Explaining expectations vs. results in legal services
• 04:04 – The Skittles analogy: universal expectations
• 05:26 – Owner emotional investment
• 07:10 – Building systems to delegate client communications
• 08:00 – The importance of regular feedback and check-ins
• 10:09 – Dealing with negative reviews: Private and public strategies
• 12:30 – When to respond publicly to reviews
• 15:58 – Why staying in touch matters for law firms
• 17:19 – Reinforcing credibility through ongoing communications
• 18:29 – Give, give, give, ask: Building goodwill before requests
• 19:14 – The role of relevancy and value in content

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Takeaways for Law Firm Owners

• Setting and regularly reaffirming expectations is the core of effective client communication.
• Emotional involvement in client care can help but needs boundaries and systems to prevent burnout.
• Active, scheduled follow-ups—soliciting both positive and constructive feedback—prevent most review crises and drive service improvement.
• Negative feedback is best addressed privately and empathetically, but public responses matter for your firm’s reputation.
• Consistent communication, even post-case, reinforces expertise, increases referrals, and strengthens the client relationship.
• Embrace value-first marketing—guide, educate, and support before asking for testimonials or referrals.

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This summary captures the conversational, friendly, and practical tone of the podcast, providing actionable insights and direct guidance for busy law firm owners seeking growth and, as the title suggests, a little more sanity.

Transcript

[Mark Serigla]

So it's a bit of a double edged sword, to be honest with you. You know, like, and I think especially for, for lawyers and really any business owners, especially lawyers who we work with a lot, because, you know, the work they're doing is, is often so intimate when you, when you think about kind of the nature of someone being in a legal situation.

[Mike]

Get ready to level up your law firm's marketing. We hope you get a lot of value out of today's episode.

[Eddie]

And if you do, we only ask you for one thing. Share with a friend.

[Mark Serigla]

All right, let's get into it.

[Mike]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the marketing minute. As always, we are your hosts. I'm Smike.

[Eddie]

I'm Eddie.

[Mike]

And today we have a very, very special guest with us.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Very.

[Mike]

Gotta butter him up because he's the CEO of the company I work for.

[Mark Serigla]

Good job.

[Mike]

But Mark Serigla. Ser Niglia. Excuse me, I'm already messing it up. We appreciate you taking the time out of your day to, you know, be.

[Mark Serigla]

Anytime, anytime for you guys.

[Mike]

We talked about this a little earlier, obviously right before we started recording. And one of the things that you have said in the past is that, you know, law firm owners, yes, they're lawyers, they went to school to be lawyers. But if they own a law firm, they're a business owner first.

[Eddie]

Right, right.

[Mike]

And so the power of effective client communication in a law firm. That's what we wanted to talk about today. A very important aspect, of course, any small business, of course. So let's just start off real quick. What does effective client communication, what does that look like?

[Mark Serigla]

So effective client communication, I think really starts at the beginning, which may sound obvious, but I mean, I think that every business, even a law firm, has a sales process.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Even if, even if sales sounds like a bad word.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

You know, so whether that be a consultation, whatever way you actually sign someone up or take on a case or take on a job, whatever it might be, but everything in your marketing, everything on your website, everything that you say on the phone, that you send an email, that you say in a consultation or in the sales call or whatever type of sales meeting there is your expectation setting in all of that communication, right? So from what's said on your website about your firm to the actual interactions people have with your firm, you're. You're setting expectations or you ought to be, I guess would be my answer to your question. So. So in here, and here's where I can kind of go from really like long answer on the front end, too quick on the Back end. The reason the first step to effective client communication is setting expectations at the beginning is because the number one thing needed for success with a client or customer is for them to receive whatever they expected to get.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yep.

[Eddie]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Okay.

[Mark Serigla]

So you have to set the expectations as clearly as you can that if you work with me, you purchase our product, you purchase our service, this is what you're gonna get.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Not necessarily a result.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

A law firm can't guarantee an outcome in a case, but this is what it looks like to work with us. This is. These are the expectations I want to set on what experience is going to be like. This is the likelihood or unlikelihood of said outcome.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

We're a marketing agency.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

It's really important that our clients understand what it is we're actually going to deliver for them.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mike]

So it goes way beyond just services. You know, obviously the services are very important.

[Mark Serigla]

I mean, I mean, it may or may not. I mean, I mean, I think the thing is, is that it doesn't necessarily. It all depends on whatever expectations you want to set business. I mean, if. If I go into a candy shop and, and I buy a pack of Skittles, I. I'm expecting it to taste like Skittles. I mean, they're really. I mean.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

I mean, they're really. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. But if for some reason, you know, Skittles markets themselves as they taste like chocolate and they don't.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

I mean, that sounds like a silly example, but it's the same idea. A happy customer starts with someone whose.

[Eddie]

Expectations were metast the rainbow in this particular package.

[Mark Serigla]

Right. So it sounds simple, but I think that we can talk all day and we will talk a little bit about, you know, you know, there's all sorts of things you can do to get feedback, to check in with clients and customers. Are they happy? But usually when they're not happy, it's because an expectation wasn't met. Where did that expectation come from? Is that an expectation you set for them or is it potentially an expectation that they created on their own?

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

That you didn't. Weren't aware of or didn't uncover?

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

You know, so. So all these things and tools you can do to, you know, maintain a relationship with a client are wonderful, but it starts with what is the customer or client expecting to receive? And do they receive that or something else or something that falls short of that? If, if, if you, if you can't nail that, everything else is.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

What do you got? Is. Is not A waste of time. But you know, you're, you're, you're, you're starting, you know, you're, you're starting with one leg instead of two. Right.

[Mike]

And I'm sure like, especially for, for small businesses like that have small teams, like obviously when Spotlight started off, you're a small team. That was very important.

[Mark Serigla]

Well, yeah.

[Mike]

Set it off like right up.

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah. I mean we also don't, we also don't know all of this at the beginning of starting a company.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

True.

[Mike]

Yeah, very true, very true.

[Mark Serigla]

I think that, you know, when you're the business owner, you probably, I think you tend to pay real close attention to your clients more often than not because you're the business owner and the whole business feels like your baby. If anything, probably most business owners probably get too emotionally invested, don't know how to, to like separate emotionally from a client conflict or something like that. So it's a bit of a double edged sword, to be honest with you. You know, like, and I think especially for lawyers and really any business owners, especially lawyers who we work with a lot because you know, the work they're doing is often so intimate when you, when you think about kind of the nature of someone being in a legal situation.

[Eddie]

Absolutely.

[Mark Serigla]

You know, and so it's really, really tempting for lawyers to want to continue to work closely with their.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yep.

[Mark Serigla]

For a long time. And, and, and, and the positive of that, honestly is it becomes that much easier, I think, to have a pulse on.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

On everything. We're talking about effective client communication. What could be more effective than the business owner or in this case the law firm owner is the, the relationship manager.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah, but I, and I think there's no rules. I think if that's what you want to do in your business or your law firm, you can. But it's important to also recognize the toll that it probably takes on you as a person, as a business owner, because you' sensitive to everything more than, more than an employee inside your business would. And, and, and then, and then if you do hand that over to someone else, you got to build customer service systems and processes for them to follow. So they do a good job. But you know, and back to your point from earlier, Mike, frankly, doing so also allows you to step back and more work on your business.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Rather than in it to actually act like a business owner and kind of work on the business. But you know, at the same time, it's like I said, it's a bit, bit of a double edged sword because also no one's Going to have as good of a. No one's going to extract as much information from a client relationship as the owner will. Yeah, most likely, yeah. Something.

[Mike]

Something that you touched on a little earlier was about client feedback. Clients are a great way to like send out surveys and whatnot to get that feedback, to know what's working, what's not working, what may need a little work.

[Eddie]

I mean.

[Mark Serigla]

Well, you mean, you just said it. I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, I think that. So step one. Yes, I said in the expectations.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

But after you've properly set, hopefully you've properly set clients expectations, now you have to actually check in with them.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Are those expectations being met? Are they being exceeded? Are we falling below what you just said? What are we doing well? What aren't we doing? Well, potentially even. Do you have anything else you'd like to see from us over and above whatever you were expecting?

[Eddie]

Yeah, we delivering the right expectations, right? I guess.

[Mark Serigla]

Oh no, absolutely. And then potentially even the cherry on top, if you want to, is potentially to ask what else would they want from you? Even beyond.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

And this is where businesses also uncover opportunities or needs that their customers have that they didn't know about.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

So that, that and that, that is the bonus. Like that part's not necessary.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Like you deliver XYZ product, clients expectations are met.

[Eddie]

Great.

[Mark Serigla]

But what if there's, what if there's XYZZ product out there we don't know about, you don't know about yet, or you could be doing? And so I think also, you know, sometimes asking for that little bit extra, like what else do you need help with or what else could you want? But it absolutely starts with what are we doing well, what aren't we doing well? And so forth.

[Mike]

Yeah, you know, we get a lot.

[Unidentified Guest 3]

Of questions from lawyers asking simply, where do I even start with my marketing? Like, what do I do first? What has worked for other law firms? What are law firms planning to do this year? And so we've created one of the best free resources. It is the Legal Marketing Trends Report. We are on the third edition. We surveyed hundreds of lawyers across the entire country, found out what they were doing in their marketing, found out what they weren't doing in their marketing, where the opportunities are.

[Mike]

You can get your digital copy by.

[Unidentified Guest 3]

Checking out the description for this podcast.

[Mike]

And get started today. All right, let's get back to it. And I've seen, I've seen a lot of questions online where people ask, small business owners ask, law firm owners ask, hey, I got a Negative review or I got a negative comment. Almost like a, like a hate mail kind of like deal. Like where they're just going after. Yeah, yeah. Very much considered feedback. What, what can you, what can you do with that? Is there anything.

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah. So let's talk about maybe how to handle a negative review.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Yeah, right.

[Mark Serigla]

That's, you know, that's a really good one for any business.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right?

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

I mean, look, the very first thing honestly, is if you can, if you feel comfortable reaching out to that person privately to just basically say, hey, I saw your review. I mean, be empathetic because even if you feel like you're in the right. Because here's the thing, at the end of the day, the best outcome for you as, as, as the business and the business owner is for that review to be taken down.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Like, like that's actually the best outcome you could have. I'm willing to suck up my pride a little bit if it means that review gets taken down.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah, right.

[Mark Serigla]

Because that's, that's the, this is also my opinion. I know people out there that will combat. Because they feel like the truth matters more than anything else. And to some degree I actually get that. And so I'm not necessarily saying it, I'm not criticizing, maybe an alternative approach which would be to respond publicly, to maybe apologize for the situation, but communicate where you do feel like maybe that review is unfair. There, there is also a, a respectful way to respond to review publicly and disagree.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Yeah, right.

[Mark Serigla]

And I do think as consumers, I think we may look favorably on that.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

I'm just saying that for the most part, for me, my number one goal is going to be let's just get the review removed. And so I'm going to reach out to that client or customer and say, hey, look, I understand you're disappointed. And then here's kind of the fill in the blank.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

I understand you're disappointed. I understand you're upset. I'm really sorry about that. And then you're filling the blank. Is whatever you want to say to that specifically. Is there anything you can offer them? Is there any way you can make it up for them? Do you want to go in, politely disagree with them in the email and, and just tell them why? But, but I still understand your point of view, but I did want to address you privately. But, but, but no matter what, at the end, you say something like, listen, you have every right to leave that review, but it really negatively affects me and my team and the company. Is there any way you would consider.

[Mike]

Removing it and and go a little step deeper. Say they don't. Would you then maybe respond to it publicly?

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah, great point. Yeah. So how about this? 100% of the time, you should respond to a negative review. Okay, absolutely.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

I just maybe would. Would, would try to get it removed.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

First or even after you respond. Even. Even if your response is just, hey, such and such. We're really sorry that this was your experience. You know, we're very interested in how we can make it right. You know, we've reached out to you privately.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

And that, I mean, that works regardless of how to left field the comment is like, if they say Spotlight branding. I mean, they were the worst bunch of realtors I've ever had in my life. And we're not realtors. I mean, it's obviously so.

[Mark Serigla]

Right. A case like that, if you want to go to and address the fact that we're not realtors.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

You can do that also. I'm pretty sure I've never been through it personally. I don't know if any of you guys have, but, I mean, I do know there's ways that you can, like a lot of these different websites, whether we're talking Google reviews, Facebook reviews, that you can file a dispute.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yep.

[Mark Serigla]

For sure. And I would imagine in the scenario that they just get your business wrong.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Like, they think you do one thing and you do another, that that would be grounds for probably even getting the. The review removed.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

That.

[Mark Serigla]

That that's another route you could go.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mike]

And obviously, like, like we said before, that negativity could have stemmed from some sort of misunderstanding. And. And so that just goes to prove how. How important, you know, effective communication is.

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah. I mean, if you're soliciting your customers feedback.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Why are they going to ever feel a need to go leave a review on their own? That's. That's negative.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

I mean, I'm not. I mean, I'm sure it happens. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. You know, if someone leaves a negative review that they wouldn't have if you were doing a better job keeping in touch with them, but, you know, it takes energy and effort to go leave a negative review. I mean, to leave any review.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Typically have to ask for the positive reviews, and that's fine. Ask for the positive reviews, but.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

But the. It takes effort and energy for someone to leave a negative review. And a lot of times they want to feel like they got it out. And I don't know. I think human nature is. If I feel like I got it out to you. I'm hurt if I feel like I got it out to you. I don't feel like the next thing I need to go do is, is, is put it online. Unless you gave me some just awful smug response or something like that.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

You know, you complain to a server at a restaurant and they handle it poorly, you're probably even more motivated to leave a review.

[Eddie]

But sorry goes a long way to disarm somebody. I mean, always.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Well, I mean, it's not even always necessarily. I'm sorry, something you did wrong.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Again, going back to. Here's the expectations we're setting now. We're going to check in if those expectations are being met. So it's just knowing if the expectations are being met and even if they're not being met. Sure. There's, I'm sorry, but here's, here's what we can do to, to meet those expectations or reset those expectations.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

If you're staying on top of your client relationships, you know where they're at, you know, you'll be getting no negative reviews for the most part and you'll be asking for the positive.

[Unidentified Guest 1]

Yes.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

Happiness based on real realistic expectations.

Yeah.

[Mike]

And to, and to kind of move, move this, this conversation back into a little bit more of a happy, positive vibe, we can talk about effective ways of, of communication, client communication. And one of the most effective ways, something that we talk about all the time, literally all the time, is just simply staying in touch with your current clients, with your current network, you know, through an email newsletter, through social media.

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean this is, I mean this is the same reason that even if you wear a certain brand of clothing like Nike or something like that, Nike still wants to market to you. They want you to continue to think Nike is a cool brand.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

And, and you know, and maybe a service based business like a law firm, it is different. I don't, I don't want anyone to hear me saying you need to go care about branding in the same way Nike does, because that's not what I'm saying. But like, but when you're working with, with, with a service based industry as the consumer, as the client, I think honestly one of the ingredients in the pot is just feeling like the business you're working with is good at, or maybe it is that they're cool or they're experts.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

And so when, when you use your marketing to stay in touch with not just your, your whole network, but your clients. Right. Maybe they, maybe your clients get an email newsletter from you. Maybe they get a physical newsletter. Maybe you send a holiday card or birthday card in the mail. I mean, you know, print still matters. Maybe, maybe they see your social media posts once in a while and, and you're putting out content about what you do. I think that just reinforces to your, your existing and past. You're up with the trends in the sense that, like, you're on social media or you're sending email, you're, you're marketing yourself.

[Eddie]

You know, keep your pace.

[Mark Serigla]

Yeah, you're keeping pace. Great way to put it. And so there's that element also too, of like liking the company you work with.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Like, good vibes, good energy. So I think that when you use marketing to stay in touch with your existing customers or your past customers or clients, it just, it's good energy. Yeah, it's good energy. Whether that's them feeling like you're cool or your experts or you're trustworthy, you're credible.

[Eddie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Or your hip, whatever. Pick your word, pick your vibe.

[Eddie]

Right.

[Mike]

But yeah, and, and that makes it a whole lot easier to then ask for feedback, right? Because the, the, the feedback helping you grow.

[Mark Serigla]

Well, and, and, and it makes them more often more excited to work with you, which means they want to refer to you.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

Like if, if, you know, if, if, if, if, if, if the, the place you do business with you, you, you feel like they're cool or you feel like they're experts or, you know, like anything that makes you like, excited to tell someone about them. Like, I know the best.

[Eddie]

Like, oh, yeah, I love giving referrals. Just makes me look good.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right? Right.

[Eddie]

Is there something like intrinsically selfish about giving referral? Like, I feel good about giving referral when I, when I trust and believe in something.

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Or you like, or you just like, just like something.

[Eddie]

Yeah.

[Mark Serigla]

Excited about it.

[Eddie]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

But no, I, I think that zooming out the idea of give, give, give, ask is, is that in all of your marketing, you know, you're, you're, you're giving way more than you're looking to receive.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

You're giving away information, you're giving away your expertise, you're, you're giving away some of your knowledge, your support, your help. It doesn't mean you'll never ask for something. You can give, give, give, ask. You can give, give, give, give, give, give, ask.

[Eddie]

Right.

[Mark Serigla]

You know, you know, but just as.

[Mike]

Long as you're giving before you, you.

[Mark Serigla]

Ask, you're giving, giving more. I think you're giving more, more, more than you ask.

[Eddie]

We're reinforcing the idea of value based content. I mean, we're not posting cat videos and tick tock dances. Right. This is why we're posting value bait.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right.

[Eddie]

Red Valuableable on education educational contentment again right now.

[Mark Serigla]

Contentment, sure.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Yeah, sure.

[Mark Serigla]

But I mean if somebody now now know saying right now, if somebody was giving value through cat dances and things like that, like that, that's okay too. I mean, I think a separate conversation about making sure your content's maybe relevant to what you do. But to be honest with you, I think what matters most is that the content is giving hopefully in a relevant way to your business.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Right, right.

[Mark Serigla]

But end of the day, I think that old mantra of like you give to receive is really true within business and in your marketing as well.

[Eddie]

Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Mike]

So. Well, that's. That's going to wrap it up this episode of Law Firm Marketing Minute. Mark, appreciate you taking.

[Mark Serigla]

Thanks, Mark. You'll have me back more often.

[Eddie]

Yeah, we'll see.

[Mike]

We'll talk about marketing next time.

[Eddie]

We got you marketing with a C. That's right.

[Mike]

Marketing with a C. Thanks, guys.

[Unidentified Guest 2]

Appreciate it.

[Eddie]

Always.

[Mike]

All right, everyone, have a great day, have a great weekend and we'll see you next week.

[Eddie]

Bye.