The Lawfare Podcast: Escalation, Episode Six - "Nothing Else Matters"

Release Date: June 10, 2025

Introduction

In Episode Six of the "Escalation" series titled "Nothing Else Matters," hosts Tyler McBrien and Benjamin Wittes delve deep into the intricate and tumultuous relationship between the United States and Ukraine. Tracing the history from Ukraine's independence to the present day, this episode highlights pivotal moments that have shaped the bilateral ties, particularly focusing on political maneuvers, corruption scandals, and cultural diplomacy.

Recap of Previous Episodes

Previously, "Escalation" has explored various facets of US-Ukraine relations, setting the stage for the current episode by examining events that have led to the present-day complexities. The series has meticulously covered the evolution of policies, key political figures, and significant incidents that have influenced the dynamic between the two nations.

Historical Background: US-Ukraine Relations

The episode begins by contextualizing the relationship between the US and Ukraine, emphasizing Ukraine's struggle for independence and the subsequent geopolitical challenges it faced. A significant focus is placed on the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, which led to the ousting of Viktor Yanukovych and Russia's annexation of Crimea and Donbas. This period marked a decisive break from Russian influence and ignited a series of reforms in Ukraine, strongly supported by the United States.

Notable Quote:

Benjamin Wittes (10:17): “You have to fight the cancer of corruption that is, that is endemic in your system right now.”

The 2016 Political Scandal: Hunter Biden and Burisma

A central theme of the episode is the 2016 political scandal involving Hunter Biden's position on the board of Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian gas company under investigation by Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. This connection created a perceived conflict of interest, especially as Vice President Joe Biden was actively pushing for Shokin's removal to combat corruption in Ukraine.

Notable Quote:

Benjamin Wittes (12:21): “So Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma in 2014.”

The episode meticulously outlines how the pressure from the US led to Shokin's ousting in 2016, a move that was lauded across bipartisan lines at the time but later became a focal point in the ensuing political turmoil.

Impeachment and Its Aftermath

The narrative then shifts to the events leading up to the impeachment of President Donald Trump in 2019. The pivotal moment was Trump's phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, where Trump allegedly pressured Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son. This act was perceived as an attempt to leverage military aid for personal political gain, leading to widespread controversy and the House of Representatives initiating impeachment proceedings.

Notable Quote:

Benjamin Wittes (43:56): “Do you believe it is okay for the President of the United States to pressure a foreign country into helping him or her win an election? It is unwarranted. It is unwelcome. It is. It is bad for the nation to have outside.”

Despite the impeachment, the Senate did not convict Trump, allowing him to remain in office. However, the scandal severely strained US-Ukraine relations and sowed seeds of distrust that continue to influence contemporary politics.

The Role of Ukrainian Cultural Forces

Amidst the political chaos, Ukrainian Cultural Forces have been instrumental in maintaining and fostering support for Ukraine within the United States. Comprising musicians, artists, and activists like Taras Stoler, Nikolai Sierga, and Sasha Bull, these cultural emissaries aim to bridge the gap between Ukrainian and American communities through performances and cultural exchanges.

Notable Quote:

Benjamin Wittes (16:20): “It's like psychological stuff at first. It's moral psychological stuff. So we're working with the troops on the front line and mostly our presenters, our artists, they are military, they are soldiers with combat experience.”

The episode highlights their efforts to navigate the increasingly polarized political landscape, especially with the 2024 US presidential election looming, which threatens to dilute bipartisan support for Ukraine.

Impact on the 2024 US Presidential Election

With the 2024 elections approaching, US political factions are becoming increasingly divided over Ukraine support. This division is exacerbated by lingering suspicions stemming from the 2019 scandal, making it challenging for Ukrainian Cultural Forces to garner widespread support. The episode portrays the Cultural Forces' frustrations as their efforts receive lukewarm responses compared to previous years.

Notable Quote:

Benjamin Wittes (33:55): “Wu Support for Ukraine became tailored to whatever election headlines were being shot out of a firehose.”

This political schism not only impacts the flow of aid but also affects Ukraine's strategic positioning against Russian aggression, as delineated by President Trump's skepticism towards Zelenskyy.

Current State of Affairs: Fall 2024

In the fall of 2024, the episode paints a grim picture of the US-Ukraine relationship. The cultural missions are grappling with reduced support and increased political skepticism, making their mission more arduous than ever. Concurrently, Russia observes the weakening US support with concern, potentially emboldening its strategic maneuvers in the region.

The Cultural Forces' latest performances in Washington D.C. signify their persistent yet challenging efforts to maintain solidarity and support for Ukraine amidst dwindling political consensus.

Notable Quote:

Benjamin Wittes (52:45): “It's a hectic day on the Hill. In addition to all the normal election chaos, Congress voted to increase security for presidential candidates.”

Conclusion and Future Outlook

"Nothing Else Matters" underscores the complexities of international relations intertwined with domestic politics. The episode concludes by setting the stage for the series finale, promising to unveil the culmination of over a decade of conflict, political intrigue, and the unwavering spirit of Ukrainian resilience.

Notable Quotes Recap

• Benjamin Wittes (10:17): “You have to fight the cancer of corruption that is, that is endemic in your system right now.”

• Benjamin Wittes (12:21): “So Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma in 2014.”

• Benjamin Wittes (43:56): “Do you believe it is okay for the President of the United States to pressure a foreign country into helping him or her win an election? It is unwarranted. It is unwelcome. It is. It is bad for the nation to have outside.”

• Benjamin Wittes (16:20): “It's like psychological stuff at first. It's moral psychological stuff. So we're working with the troops on the front line and mostly our presenters, our artists, they are military, they are soldiers with combat experience.”

• Benjamin Wittes (33:55): “Wu Support for Ukraine became tailored to whatever election headlines were being shot out of a firehose.”

• Benjamin Wittes (52:45): “It's a hectic day on the Hill. In addition to all the normal election chaos, Congress voted to increase security for presidential candidates.”

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from "Escalation, Episode Six: Nothing Else Matters," offering listeners a detailed understanding of the intricate US-Ukraine relationship and its broader geopolitical implications.