The Lawfare Podcast: Domestic Deployment of the National Guard – Detailed Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Lawfare Archive: Domestic Deployment of the National Guard
• Host/Author: The Lawfare Institute
• Release Date: May 26, 2025

Introduction

In this archived episode from May 3, 2024, hosted by Caroline Cornett, the Lawfare Podcast delves into the evolving role of the National Guard in domestic operations. The discussion features a panel of esteemed experts, including General Craig McKinley, General Joseph Langell, Brigadier General Alison Solomon, Major General Darrell Bohack, and Dr. Paul Stockton, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense.

Understanding National Guard Statuses

Caroline Cornett [02:14]:
Introduces the episode's focus on the National Guard's deployment within domestic spheres, highlighting recent requests from the Department of Homeland Security for 20,000 National Guard members to assist with immigration enforcement under Title 32.

General Joseph Langell [06:17]:
Provides an overview of the three primary statuses under which the National Guard operates:

1. Title 10:

   • Description: Federal activation for war or significant military operations.
   • Command: Under the President’s control.
   • Quote: "The principal role of the National Guard is to be the combat reserve force to surge the force in time of war."

2. Title 32:

   • Description: State-organized, federally funded for training and non-military activities.
   • Command: Governed by state governors.
   • Quote: "They train, their drill weekends, their summer camps. They are federally funded."

3. State Active Duty:

   • Description: State-funded missions for emergencies like natural disasters.
   • Command: Controlled by state governors.
   • Hybrid 502F Status:
     • Description: Combines Title 32 with specific federal missions, such as cybersecurity during the COVID-19 pandemic.

General Craig McKinley [13:10]:
Elaborates on the traditional domestic roles of the National Guard, emphasizing lifesaving, property protection, and support to first responders during disasters like Hurricane Katrina.

Expansion into Non-Traditional Missions

Scott Anderson [16:11]:
Addresses the trend of deploying the National Guard in non-traditional roles, such as:

• Guarding prisons in Florida
• Serving as substitute teachers in New Mexico
• Augmenting police forces in New York City
• Operation Lone Star:
  • Focus: Enforcement of immigration restrictions at the Southern border in Texas.

General Craig McKinley [17:08]:
Highlights challenges with non-traditional deployments:

• Training Mismatches:

  • Guardsmen are not trained for specific tasks like immigration enforcement.
  • Quote: "What do we do if we come across a group of immigrants?"

• Funding and Coordination Issues:

  • Diverse funding streams from federal and state sources create confusion.
  • Quote: "If you're in one state status, you might be earning less than in another state and it causes confusion."

Political Implications and Civil-Military Relations

Scott Anderson [19:43]:
Explores the political nature of recent National Guard missions, particularly in areas with significant political contention.

Brigadier General Alison Solomon [20:33]:
Expresses concerns about:

• Impact on Readiness:

  • Non-traditional missions can detract from the Guard’s primary military preparedness.
  • Quote: "The United States army and United States Air Force are concerned about that."

• Morale and Welfare:

  • Extended deployments and lack of standardized benefits across states affect Guardsmen’s well-being.
  • Quote: "In order for organizations to stay healthy they have to take care of their people."

Dr. Paul Stockton [24:57]:
Addresses civilian control, emphasizing that:

• Civilian Control Is Insufficient Alone:

  • Democratically accountable oversight and adherence to the rule of law are crucial.
  • Quote: "Civilian control is not enough. You need democratic control of the military and you need respect for the rule of law."

• Historical Context:

  • References the federalization of the Arkansas National Guard in 1957 to enforce school integration as a positive precedent.
  • Quote: "What if federalization is used by some future president, regardless of party, to enforce on a state missions that are deeply inappropriate?"

Impact on Readiness, Morale, and Retention

Brigadier General Alison Solomon [34:21]:
Discusses the sustainability challenges posed by frequent non-traditional deployments:

• Mental Health and Family Strain:

  • Guardsmen balancing civilian lives with frequent and varied military roles.
  • Quote: "Childcare issues, mental health issues associated with the constant up and down."

• Retention Concerns:

  • Potential decrease in long-term service due to dissatisfaction and burnout.
  • Quote: "How is this going to impact retention?"

Proposed Solutions and Legislative Considerations

General Joseph Langell [38:44]:
Suggests existing and potential frameworks to address deployment challenges:

• Federal Levers:

  • Withdrawing resources and federalizing the National Guard as control measures.

• Training Enhancements:

  • Developing guidelines similar to the laws of armed conflict for domestic operations.
  • Quote: "Could you have a framework that would help us walk through that process in a consistent manner?"

Dr. Paul Stockton [44:52]:
Advocates for stringent criteria under the Insurrection Act to prevent misuse:

• Use Case Example:
  • Preventing National Guard deployment to suppress voter participation.
  • Quote: "A future president could direct the National Guard to provide security at ballot boxes to suppress voter participation."

General Craig McKinley [52:09]:
Emphasizes the importance of collaborative frameworks involving governors, National Guard leadership, and legislative bodies to establish clear mission guidelines.

Audience Engagement and Real-World Examples

Audience Questions:

1. National Guard in Elections:

   • Scenario: Deployment of National Guard members in civilian clothes to support poll workers.
   • Response:
     General Joseph Langell [58:54]:
     • Approved during the COVID-19 pandemic to ensure election operations amid fears of insufficient poll workers.
     • Quote: "We put 131 soldiers and airmen in state active duty... they wore clothing that would not identify themselves as a military member."

2. Operation Lone Star Concerns:

   • Issues Raised:
     • Low morale and high suicide rates among Guardsmen.
     • Response:
       General Craig McKinley [77:43]:
       • Describes a standoff in Texas where Governor Abbott deployed 10,000 soldiers to defend border areas, leading to confrontations with federal forces.
       • Quote: "They weren’t able to recruit, and it's a tough job for them."

3. Legislative Proposals:

   • Suggestion: Extending the Posse Comitatus Act to states to regulate the National Guard’s law enforcement roles.

   • Response:
     Dr. Paul Stockton [81:35]:

     • Opposes the idea, emphasizing the need for flexibility in supporting law enforcement during crises.
     • Quote: "I think it's a terrible idea. I love that the National Guard can serve and support law enforcement agencies at the direction of the governor."

   • General Joseph Langell [87:13]:

     • Reiterates the importance of existing state controls and transparency in deployment decisions.

Conclusion

The panel underscores the National Guard's pivotal role in both traditional and expanding domestic missions. While these deployments can address pressing state needs, they also pose significant challenges related to training, legal boundaries, morale, and the fundamental principle of civilian control. The experts advocate for enhanced frameworks, standardized guidelines, and legislative measures to ensure that the National Guard remains an effective and sustainable force for both state and national security.

Notable Quotes:

• General Craig McKinley [13:10]:
  "Primarily what the National Guard does is it saves lives, it protects property, and it's usually an assist to the first response."

• Brigadier General Alison Solomon [20:33]:
  "Some of these one-off missions... it's tough to keep the force together and to retain them and their families."

• Dr. Paul Stockton [25:50]:
  "Civilian control is not enough. You need democratic control of the military and you need respect for the rule of law."

• General Joseph Langell [58:54]:
  "The National Guard is supporting law enforcement. We are in support of law enforcement."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the multifaceted discussion on the National Guard's domestic deployment, highlighting both the operational necessities and the broader implications for military readiness, legal frameworks, and civil-military relations.