The Lawfare Podcast: Juliette Kayyem on the Baltimore Bridge Collapse and Crisis Management

Episode Release Date: July 12, 2025
Host: The Lawfare Institute
Guests: Juliette Kayyem, Professor of International Security at the Harvard Kennedy School; Matt Gluck, Lawfare Research Fellow

Introduction

In this compelling archive episode of The Lawfare Podcast, Juliette Kayyem delves deep into the Baltimore Bridge Collapse, exploring the intricacies of crisis management and the vulnerabilities of critical infrastructure. Released on July 12, 2025, the episode revisits a tragic incident discussed originally on April 9, 2024, offering fresh insights and expert analysis on disaster preparedness and response.

Background: The Tragic Incident

The episode begins with Matt Gluck setting the stage for the discussion:

Matt Gluck (03:52): "In the early morning on March 26, a Singapore-flagged cargo ship crashed into Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge. The bridge collapsed, resulting in the death of six of the eight individuals conducting maintenance on the bridge."

Juliette Kayyem provides a succinct overview of the event, emphasizing the unforeseen nature and immediate consequences of the collision.

Immediate Aftermath and Authority Response

Mary Ford initiates the conversation by asking Kayyem to describe the incident broadly:

Mary Ford (03:52): "Could you describe the tragic incident in Baltimore broadly? What happened?"

Kayyem responds by dissecting the technical and human factors that led to the bridge's collapse:

Juliette Kayyem (03:59): "A big ship hit a bridge that never intended to be hit. There were preconditions in both the ship and the bridge that caused this... The ship became unsteerable, and despite the SOS protocols in place, the direct hit on an unprotected pylon led to the bridge's catastrophic failure."

She highlights the crucial role of effective crisis management:

Kayyem (08:30): "People kept their heads, and cars were stopped from crossing the bridge just in time, which minimized further harm. This restraint exemplifies the effectiveness of existing emergency protocols."

Impact and Disruption

The discussion shifts to the multifaceted impact of the collapse:

Mary Ford (08:45): "What's been the nature of the disruption since the collapse?"

Kayyem outlines both immediate and long-term repercussions:

Juliette Kayyem (08:45): "The maritime disruption is significant, affecting the transport of hazardous materials and halting shipping at the Port of Baltimore. Economically, Baltimore faces immense challenges as cargo is diverted to other ports, increasing the burden on those cities and disrupting local businesses reliant on the bridge for customer access."

Safety and Infrastructure Concerns

A critical examination of the bridge's safety measures follows:

Mary Ford (11:47): "How about the safety of the bridge?"

Kayyem critiques the lack of federal requirements for bridge protection:

Juliette Kayyem (13:09): "There are no federal requirements to protect a bridge, which is a glaring oversight. Even if protections were in place, a ship of this size and speed might have overwhelmed them, indicating a mismatch between modern maritime capabilities and existing infrastructure designs."

She further discusses the challenges posed by the growing size of maritime vessels:

Kayyem (16:44): "Ships are getting bigger while bridges are not being retrofitted to handle them, creating a persistent risk of collisions that current infrastructure cannot withstand."

Resilience and Crisis Management: Left and Right of the Boom

One of the episode's focal points is the concept of resilience, explained through the lens of disaster management:

Juliette Kayyem (20:32): "Resilience has two interconnected components: left of the boom and right of the boom. Left of the boom involves prevention and protection measures to stop disasters from occurring, while right of the boom focuses on response, recovery, and resilience after a disaster strikes."

She emphasizes the importance of balancing these components to enhance overall preparedness:

Kayyem (25:07): "We need to allocate resources not just to prevent disasters but also to effectively manage their consequences. This dual approach ensures that even if a disaster occurs, its impact is mitigated."

Lessons Learned and Recommendations

As the conversation progresses, Kayyem offers actionable insights for both government and private sector actors:

1. Prioritize High-Consequence Infrastructure:

   Juliette Kayyem (44:31): "Governors and mayors should identify and prioritize high-consequence bridges and infrastructure. Focus funding and protective measures on these critical points to maximize safety and resilience."

2. Implement Layered Defenses:

   Juliette Kayyem (29:48): "Adopt multiple layers of defense rather than relying on a single last line of defense. This redundancy can prevent catastrophic failures even if one layer is breached."

3. Enhance Emergency Response Protocols:

   Juliette Kayyem (44:31): "Ensure that robust situation awareness and communication mechanisms are in place to minimize harm during emergencies. Effective response protocols can save lives and reduce the overall impact of disasters."

4. Shift Focus from Probability to Consequences:

   Juliette Kayyem (39:34): "Instead of solely trying to control the probability of disasters, we should focus on controlling their consequences. This means preparing for effective recovery and resilience to ensure societal stability post-disaster."

Conclusion

In closing, Juliette Kayyem underscores the necessity of a holistic approach to disaster management that integrates both prevention and robust response strategies. Her expertise provides a roadmap for enhancing the resilience of critical infrastructure, ensuring that societies can better withstand and recover from unforeseen calamities.

Juliette Kayyem (46:31): "It's an investment in everyone to focus on high-consequence infrastructure. By doing so, we protect not just specific points but the entire community reliant on them."

This episode serves as an essential resource for policymakers, security experts, and anyone interested in understanding the complexities of crisis management and infrastructure resilience.

Notable Quotes:

• Juliette Kayyem (03:59): "A big ship hit a bridge that never intended to be hit... The direct hit on an unprotected pylon led to the bridge's catastrophic failure."

• Juliette Kayyem (08:30): "People kept their heads, and cars were stopped from crossing the bridge just in time, which minimized further harm."

• Juliette Kayyem (13:09): "There are no federal requirements to protect a bridge, which is a glaring oversight."

• Juliette Kayyem (20:32): "Resilience has two interconnected components: left of the boom and right of the boom."

• Juliette Kayyem (39:34): "Instead of solely trying to control the probability of disasters, we should focus on controlling their consequences."

• Juliette Kayyem (44:31): "It's an investment in everyone to focus on high-consequence infrastructure."

This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the podcast episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have yet to listen.