The Lawfare Podcast: “Threat Multiplier,” Climate, and the Military with Sherri Goodman

Host: Tyler McBrien
Guest: Sherri Goodman, Secretary General, International Military Council on Climate & Security
Original Air Date: August 27, 2024
Archive Release Date: November 1, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Lawfare Podcast is an in-depth discussion with Sherri Goodman, a trailblazer at the intersection of national security and climate policy. Goodman recounts her journey from Senate staffer overseeing nuclear weapons during the Cold War to becoming the Pentagon’s first Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Environmental Security. The conversation, based on her book “Threat Climate, Military Leadership and the Fight for Global Security,” explores how the U.S. military came to view climate change as a “threat multiplier,” the institutional evolution on these issues, and the four pillars of effective climate action for the future.

The discussion covers key moments from history, the complexities of aligning environmental stewardship with military readiness, and how to navigate skepticism from both within and outside the defense establishment.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sherri Goodman’s Early Career: From Weapons to Environmental Security

• Senate Armed Services Committee Work (1987+)

  • Oversaw Department of Energy’s nuclear weapons complex during the Cold War.
  • Tasked with managing research, development, and production at major national labs and reactors.
  • Describes transition: “My career went from weapons to waste.” (05:30)

• Emergence of Environmental Concerns

  • “When I went to law school and policy school in the mid-1980s, there weren't even... courses on environmental law... that connection [to national security] had not yet been established.” (06:05, Sherri Goodman)
  • End of Cold War, environmental laws (Clean Air Act, Superfund) brought new critiques and shut down nuclear production for safety lapses, moving the mission towards cleanup.
  • Notable story: Denied entry to a plutonium pit facility at Rocky Flats due to her childbearing age, underscoring health risks and regulatory changes. (09:30)

2. Bringing Change to the Pentagon: Base Closures and Community Engagement

• Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Environmental Security (1993+)

  • Tasked with managing base closures (BRAC), environmental cleanup, and engaging local communities as part of post-Cold War downsizing. (11:53)
  • Developed affirmative plans for job creation and environmental remediation at closed bases.
  • Formed new partnerships with the EPA and local stakeholders: “We created something we called Restoration Advisory Boards... to bring communities in and hear their concerns about the cleanup...” (15:50, Goodman)

• Collaboration Across Sectors

  • Reached out to NGOs and critics: “Many of them said, 'Well, we've never been in the Pentagon before, nobody's ever invited us in.'” (17:13)
  • Built bridges with Congress, modeled after the bipartisan relationships she witnessed on the Senate staff.

3. From Environmental Awareness to “Threat Multiplier”: Key Inflection Points

• The National Security Framing of Climate Change

  • Goodman describes the shift from focusing on emissions control to understanding security implications.
  • Montreal Protocol (1987) as early model for military adaptation: “...the military began to understand how its activities might have damaging global environmental impact.” (22:31)
  • Kyoto Protocol (1997) and Senate resistance (Byrd-Hagel Amendment); climate seen more as an operational issue than a security issue.

• Birth of the “Threat Multiplier” Concept

  • Goodman led the first CNA Military Advisory Board study on climate’s national security impacts, coining “threat multiplier.”
  • “A destabilized climate, destabilized earth and natural systems would add instability to other threats we face.” (28:10, Goodman)
  • Cites General Gordon Sullivan: “We don’t wait for 100% certainty… If you wait, something bad is going to happen on the battlefield.” (29:45)

• Mainstreaming the Idea

  • The concept was included in major policy documents and defense reviews thanks to bipartisan support in Congress.
  • “That’s how you begin to mainstream something in the Department of Defense… you have to get the institution to begin to embrace it in its own terms.” (35:24, Goodman)

4. Uptake, Skepticism, and Institutional Tension

• Surprise at Uptake of “Threat Multiplier”

  • “I was surprised. I used to joke I should have trademarked it so I could get a quarter for every use. But I’m glad it’s helped convey the concept...” (37:58, Goodman)

• The Apparent Contradiction: Military as Polluter and Leader

  • U.S. military is the largest institutional emitter, but also an early institutional leader on the climate threat.
  • “Our military is all about protecting Americans. And if we're going to protect America and our heritage, we want to protect all facets... including our natural heritage.” (40:50, Goodman)
  • Notes the role of unheralded individuals and institutional change toward stewardship.

• Broader Social Change Reflected in the Military

  • Draws parallels to racial and gender integration, and military technological evolution (coal → nuclear → renewables).
  • Shift in research: innovations now spin in from the private sector, not just out from defense labs.

5. Addressing Critics and Building Consensus

• Balancing Readiness and Stewardship

  • Responds to critics concerned about prioritizing the environment over hard security:
    • “You have to be able to walk and chew gum... Military readiness is fundamental. But how you achieve that readiness, you have to think about all the components... Environmental stewardship and climate security can be a piece of enabling that readiness.” (45:57, Goodman)
    • Example: Using natural obstacles for training while protecting endangered species at Fort Bragg. (46:50)

• Reframing Securitization of Climate Change

  • On fears of ‘securitizing’ climate:
    • “The military is not the solution to global climate emissions reductions... I often talk about climatizing security instead of securitizing climate.” (48:53, Goodman)
    • Stresses importance of “diplomacy, development, and defense”—the 3Ds.

• Making Change from Within

  • Advocates for institutional reform instead of only outside activism:
    • “I have always tried to be a change maker... sort of institutionalizing environment and climate awareness and action within our national security institutions.” (51:40, Goodman)

6. Looking Forward: The Four Pillars of Climate Action

[54:37] Sherri Goodman:

"The four pillars for climate action in national security are..."

1. Precision Climate Prediction

   • Harness AI and advanced tech to close the gap between weather and climate forecasting, with direct defense applications.

2. Resilience

   • Make society and military infrastructure resilient to inevitable climate change impacts.
   • Example: Rebuilding Tyndall AFB as a climate-resilient base after hurricane damage.

3. Mitigation / Emissions Reduction

   • Facilitate the energy transition to reduce operational risk and supply vulnerabilities, increase efficiency, and set standards for tracking and reporting.
   • “Long fuel supply lines put soldiers at risk... We have to operate today in a contested logistics environment.”

4. Reimagined Global Cooperation

   • Collaborate with allies and partners via shared war-gaming, technology adoption, and joint policy development.
   • “Using wargames around all our combatant commands to understand how a changing climate could affect any particular scenario, conflict or contest in a region... But also use it in a positive way to develop improved technologies and practices to share with our allies and partners so that we are all stronger together.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Environmental Policy:

  “There weren’t courses for national security nerds about environment or climate change. That connection had not yet been established.” (06:05, Sherri Goodman)

• On Collaborating With Environmental Critics:

  “I found that by reaching out, creating some trust... what had become an increasingly adversarial set of relationships around environmental issues could change...” (17:13, Goodman)

• On National Security and Climate:

  “We characterized climate change as a threat multiplier for instability in fragile regions of the world. And that would affect even stable regions. And we've seen all of that, unfortunately, come true.” (28:10, Goodman)

• General Sullivan’s Principle:

  “We don’t wait for 100% certainty... If you wait, something bad will happen on the battlefield.” (29:45, as paraphrased by Goodman)

• On the Military’s Contradictory Role:

  “The military is at once one of the first government agencies to actually recognize the threat of climate change, and yet it's still the largest institutional emitter of carbon gas.” (39:50, Tyler McBrien)

• On Securitizing Climate Change:

  “I often talk about climatizing security instead of securitizing climate... The solution set should be led by diplomacy and development around the world. The military has to lead by example...” (48:53, Goodman)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Early Career and Senate Years: 03:41–11:53
• Transition to Pentagon & BRAC: 11:53–16:21
• Building Partnerships & Congressional Relations: 16:21–21:40
• Kyoto, National Security Shift & "Threat Multiplier": 21:40–30:06
• Mainstreaming in Policy, Sullivan’s Quote: 34:17–37:58
• Surprise at "Threat Multiplier" Success: 37:34–39:09
• Military’s Role as Leader & Polluter: 39:09–45:08
• Addressing Skeptics, Readiness vs. Environment: 45:08–48:00
• Climatizing Security, Institutional Change: 48:00–53:49
• Four Pillars of Climate Action: 54:37–59:52
• Closing: 59:52–60:08

Conclusion

Sherri Goodman’s reflections detail three decades of evolution—personally and institutionally—at the nexus of defense and environmental policy. She makes a compelling case for why climate change is inseparable from national and global security, how the military has transformed from laggard to (imperfect) leader, and why future action requires innovation, resilience, mitigation, and multilateral cooperation. The episode is not only a chronicle of climate-security history but a roadmap for navigating future threats in an era of compounded environmental and geopolitical risk.