The Lawfare Podcast: McCarthyism and Its Echoes in Modern Politics with Clay Risen

Release Date: June 12, 2025

In the latest episode of The Lawfare Podcast, hosted by Renee Diresta, author and journalist Clay Risen delves deep into the tumultuous era of McCarthyism, drawing poignant parallels to contemporary political dynamics. Risen, known for his extensive body of work ranging from historical analyses to guides on whiskey, brings a nuanced perspective to the discussion, rooted in both personal connection and meticulous research.

Clay Risen's Background and Motivation

Clay Risen currently serves as the obituaries editor at The New York Times, a role he describes as "great training for writing popular history" due to its demand for succinct and compelling character sketches (03:21). His diverse portfolio includes titles like Red Scare, Crowded Hour, and acclaimed works on American whiskey. When asked about his pivot to exploring the Red Scare, Risen reveals a personal link: "My grandfather was an FBI agent, and I grew up hearing his stories about doing loyalty investigations and background checks" (05:49). This familial insight fueled his interest in examining how national security measures can infringe upon individual rights.

Understanding the Red Scare

Risen defines the Red Scare as commencing shortly after World War II, around early 1946, with the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) intensifying its scrutiny of alleged communist activities (07:41). Key events shaping this era include the Hollywood Ten hearings in 1947 and the notorious Alger Hiss case, which became emblematic of the period's paranoia.

McCarthyism and Power Dynamics

The discussion pivots to Senator Joseph McCarthy, whose aggressive anti-communist stance in the early 1950s exemplified the extreme manifestations of the Red Scare. Risen highlights the symbiotic yet destructive relationship between McCarthy and political opportunists, noting how figures like Millard Tydings of the Tidings Committee inadvertently perpetuated McCarthy’s influence by trying to dismantle him through formal hearings (26:44). Risen emphasizes, "McCarthy knew that all he had to do was keep shouting and keep going from one accusation to the other" (26:44), illustrating the senator's reliance on relentless propagation over substantive evidence.

Case Studies: Alger Hiss and Owen Lattimore

Risen delves into specific cases that underscore the era's complexities:

• Alger Hiss: An American government official accused by Whitaker Chambers of espionage, Hiss's trial for perjury resulted in his conviction and imprisonment. Risen notes, "There was something there, you know, there really were spies... but also... innocent people were attacked" (12:18), highlighting the blurred lines between legitimate security concerns and baseless accusations.

• Owen Lattimore: A respected scholar on East Asia, Lattimore faced accusations of being a Soviet spy simply for his cautious approach to the Chinese Civil War. Risen recounts, "Lattimore and... other so-called China hands... were either sidelined or completely removed from government service" (34:42), illustrating the tragic consequences of unfounded allegations.

Impact on Civil Liberties and American Society

The Red Scare had a profound impact on American civil liberties, stifling free speech and creating a climate of fear. Risen observes, "Social discourse, political discourse suffered greatly in the 1950s" (02:29), emphasizing how the era's paranoia led individuals to self-censor and refrain from expressing unpopular opinions. This legacy fosters a lingering wariness that affects societal interactions even generations later.

The Role of the Media

A significant portion of the episode examines the media's complicity and eventual resistance during the Red Scare. Initially, media outlets "parroted what was coming out of Washington" without skepticism, adhering to the notion that "if a politician says it, then it has to be treated as some form of truth" (37:43). However, reports like the one from The New York Post began to shift this dynamic by adopting a more investigative stance, challenging unchecked political narratives. Risen draws a parallel to today's media landscape, noting, "We've got... an administration that is willing... to just play a different game" (37:43), suggesting lessons from the past remain pertinent.

Parallels to Modern Politics

Risen draws striking comparisons between McCarthyism and current political trends, particularly in the realm of social media and political discourse. He points out, "If you want some sort of yardstick for, you know, are we in a moment of political hysteria? ... look at where the accusations are shifting" (35:48). The episode underscores how shifting accusations without substantive evidence can signal political hysteria, mirroring the tactics employed during the Red Scare.

Lessons and Takeaways

In reflecting on the enduring relevance of McCarthyism, Risen hopes contemporary society can learn from historical missteps. He underscores the necessity for vigilant media and informed citizens to guard against the erosion of civil liberties: "It's absolutely necessary to remember that and to be able to come back and respond powerfully when it rears its head" (14:22). Additionally, Risen expresses cautious optimism about America's resilience, believing that "our culture reverts to... a fairly pragmatic culture" despite governmental and economic challenges (43:24).

Final Thoughts and Whiskey Tips

As the conversation winds down, Risen offers some lighter insights into his passion for whiskey. He shares personal preferences, noting, "For me personally, I kind of go by the alcohol percentage... anything over 50% ... always add a couple of drops of water because it's just a big whiskey" (46:17). This anecdote underscores his balanced approach to both his scholarly pursuits and personal interests.

Conclusion

Clay Risen's exploration of the Red Scare on The Lawfare Podcast serves as both a historical examination and a cautionary tale for modern politics. By juxtaposing past and present, Risen invites listeners to critically assess the balance between national security and individual rights, the integrity of media, and the perpetual dance between political opportunism and civil liberties.

For those interested in understanding the intricate dynamics of McCarthyism and its lasting effects on American society, Clay Risen's insights offer a comprehensive and engaging narrative that resonates with today's political climate.