← The Leadership Dance
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- [00:01]
A
Yemi, you talk about this idea of embodied leadership. Can you share what that means to you and how it manifests?
- [00:08]
B
I believe that hardest distance we will ever have to cross is the distance between our head and our heart. I think that there is a crisis of leadership in the world right now. Not just because all the leaders are super, super old. And I'm not the ageist, but I feel like if it's only old men, something is missing. But what I see is that disconnect from neck up. And that happens with the big leaders, but it happens everywhere. Like everybody is leader. When you're a leader in or your company or your team or your crew or your sport team or every one of us is asked to lead at certain times and if we only use our head, our leadership becomes transactional and extractive. It's just like an exchange. But when we allow and consult our decisions also with our heart and our guts, our intuition, it starts to be leadership that is based in values. And it's good not only for me, me, me, but also for us.
- [00:58]
A
Hello and welcome to the Leadership Dance podcast where we explore the art of leadership with trailblaz business and the arts. If you enjoy the show, please share, subscribe and give it a five star rating. And if you're listening to this episode right now, also check out our YouTube channel, Heladership Dance. I'm your host, Alisa sue lynch, and today I'm thrilled to have my dear friend Yemi Dele Akinyemi with me.
- [01:25]
B
Hello. Hello.
- [01:26]
A
Yemi is a Czech Nigerian entrepreneur, creative and advocate for social innovation and youth empowerment. His career spans entertainment, arts and technology. He's the founder of the Moonshot Platform, a nonprofit engaging young leaders from over 100 countries to advance solutions aligned with the UN Sustainable Development Goals. A Henry Crown Fellow of the Aspen Institute, Yemi has spoken at TEDx and South by Southwest, choreographed for Kanye west, and was honored by the Czech Senate for his contributions to social innovation. I'm so happy you're here in New York, Yemi.
- [02:06]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [02:08]
A
So I want us to just start by finding out. Where have you come from? You said you were in Zurich yesterday and you've been traveling for two months. Where have you been?
- [02:17]
B
It's a big question. Where do you come from? No, yesterday I landed from Zurich and I was afraid that I won't land because New York is covered by snow. When I was landing, it looked like I'm in Alyeshka. But fortunately everything went smooth. And before I was in Prague and before I Was in Bali. I spent every winter in Bali. I call it my annual renewal, where I meditate and do yoga and kind of try to clean and listen to my own voice, escape from the city and try to think about what are my goals for the next year and have some intentions and also work on my body so I can return healthier.
- [02:56]
A
That sounds amazing. And are you happy to be back in New York now?
- [02:59]
B
I am. I just moved in with my partner.
- [03:03]
A
Oh, congratulations.
- [03:05]
B
It just happened. So as I was arriving, I already knew that our apartments will be merged, which is an exciting moment in my life. So I'm really happy to be back.
- [03:15]
A
Yes. And did he move in for you while you were gone, or do you still have to move in?
- [03:19]
B
So we already were kind of halfway moved, but it was pending between two apartments and while we were both in Bali. And then he came back to New York, so he had a little bit time to finish the moving, which I was happy that I didn't have to be part of it for the whole time. And just to know his name is Rich, and I say hi to him if he's watching.
- [03:41]
A
Hi, Rich. It's funny because I've moved quite a few times in my life, and I've been very lucky because Hugh, you know, my husband Hugh, somehow most of the moves, I've been traveling, and so he ends up overseeing the move and getting everything set up. So I'm very grateful for that.
- [04:01]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I don't really enjoy that part of logistics, but I enjoy other things. I love to cook, and I do other things. So we find that balance.
- [04:08]
A
Yes, it balances out. So I want to go back to your beginnings. You were born in communist Czechoslovakia, and you went through a lot of change throughout your childhood. So can you tell us about your family, your upbringing, and how your childhood helped shape who you are?
- [04:26]
B
Well, my childhood, I think, was like an inspiration for what I do right now. So much I just realized these past years, especially moving in the States, it's like the further you go from where you were born, the closer you feel connected to your own story. So I can see when I look at my childhood, everything I do now is pretty much connected to it. I was born in the 80s. I was the only black child in my city. It's the city of liberates. It's like, if you remember Europe, end of Second World War, there was a Czech Republic where the Germans and the Nazis, they went in and took a piece of land. Something like, what's happening with Ukraine? It was like, piece of land. That was kind of traded by the west countries and said, you can have this. That was called Sudeten. And the city I was born is in that land. And it's very interesting because when I was growing up, there were still these houses. And in Czech we call them houses after Germans. It's very weird in English. It sounds weird, but simply, this is the reality. So I was born in one of those houses. I was spending most of my life, my childhood, with three women. My mom, my grandma, and my great grandma. My father, unfortunately was separated from us when I was 4. When he was visiting Nigeria, there was a revolution and he was unable to return. And we were separated for 18 years.
- [05:54]
A
Wow.
- [05:54]
B
So when I was growing up with my mom, it was not easy because I met another black person maybe when I was 15, when another family moved in liberate. And you can imagine all different kind of strange today. Strange. Back then, absolutely normal stuff was going on. You know, people look at you everywhere, on the street, in the school. I remember just now I'm writing a book and I always bring my mom to Bali with me for last four years. And this year I asked her if I can do an interview with her for the book. And I asked her in more depth about how was it to actually be pregnant with me and then to give birth. And it's. It's a longer story. It's. It's kind of. It's kind of sad. But I was very proud of my mom because I could see how. How courageous she was, how brave she was to go through all that. I remember she told me that the whole hospital came to see because I was the only. The first black child being born in the city since ever.
- [06:57]
A
Wow.
- [06:57]
B
You know, so, so. And then she was going through a lot. There was a pandemic, sorry, epidemic in the hospital during my, like, outbreak of salmonella. And one of the children on my. On my room died. And then they separated us. So I was three weeks on my own without my mom after birth. So, like, I feel like everything in my life when I was younger was so dramatic and so abnormal, which, you know, gave me some strength, but also gave me a lot to deal with. So big part of my life. I was just trying to unwind everything that was kind of piled up in my life.
- [07:35]
A
So I'm sure you were made to feel like an other in your home country. How did you deal with that?
- [07:41]
B
You know, when you are small, you don't see yourself different. You think you are them because you're looking from inside out until someone Tells you, no, no, no, no, no, you don't belong here, or you go back to Africa. Like, those are the moments where as a child, you start to realize that something is different. I was raised by white people. I only like most of my life. Not most, now that I'm 44. So let's say until 16, 17, it was just like, really white. If you go, you were in Prague, you were in Czech Republic. And, you know, now it's different, but back then, there is zero diversity. Like, really, really, really zero. So I remember that there was a moment where there was a girl that used to come to play with me in the garden. And one day she came and she said she can't come anymore and that she can't come to play with me. And I was asking why, and she said that her parents didn't want her to come because I was black. And I remember going the day into the bathroom and looking in the mirror for pretty long time. And I don't remember what was going on in my head back then, but I remember that moment as if I was changing color, you know, looking at yourself and realizing that change. But what's interesting is that for some, like, just an interesting fact. I don't know why, but I always took these things as strengthening. So whenever I was bullied or there was, you know, some drama around me, I would look at myself in the mirror. I was like, this is you. This is who you are. This is who you've always been. And it's great.
- [09:17]
A
Well, you're pretty incredible, Yemi.
- [09:20]
B
Thank you.
- [09:20]
A
So I have a funny story, because the first time I went to Prague was in 1990, and that was shortly after the country had opened up. So I went with the Limon Dance Company on one of their world tours. And the Limon Dance Company is very diverse. So there's people of many colors, different shapes and sizes. And we were walking through Prague and just people would just stare at us, not necessarily being hostile, but just like I've never seen an Asian person before or somebody who looks like you. And I remember that feeling that you were talking about of, like, seeing yourself differently or seeing yourself through somebody else's eyes. Luckily, it wasn't threatening. But I remember that about the Czech Republic.
- [10:05]
B
I also think. I don't know how you felt in that moment, but I also think this Eastern European curiosity, you know, it's. It's Czech, Polish, Slovakian, you know, Ukrainian. It's really curiosity. Like they are looking because they are. They are curious. And it's very easy for an American person to mistaken it for racism or even any kind of expression. And it's. There are some nuances that I think I learned through that as well. Not to just jump into conclusion of something is bad or is meant in a bad way, which I think is serving me today.
- [10:43]
A
So tell us, how did you start dancing and what drew you to become a choreographer?
- [10:49]
B
So dance was not really a career path for me or a decision. I was raised first with my great grandma in the house after Germans, and then in a block of flats which is something like project at that time. It was like a high end accommodation because with my great grandma we didn't have hot water, we only had cold water. We didn't have a bathroom. We had like a plastic bath that you have to place in the middle of the room and the toilet was on a different floor. It was very funny. And we would use coal and wood to heat in a stove to heat up the apartment. But when we moved to the block of flats, it was like, it was hot water, I had my bath and everything was cool. And it was like between like, let's say the first apartment was until I was like 5, 6, 7. And then the other apartment with my grandmother was like later on. And I remember I just loved to dance. Whenever there was music, I would dance because we also had limited channels. I don't know, people probably don't understand what it is to be in communism, to live in communism. So just a little idea. So you get, you know, some coupons for what you can buy and how much you can buy of it. For example, tropical fruits, you can only have it like once a year. You cannot buy jeans because they are like the symbol of the West. Everything you buy is manufactured and made in the country and, or in the eastern neighbors, but not to the West. And you cannot cross to the west, you cannot cross the Berlin Wall to the West. So whenever there was a TV and there was some like someone, you know, like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Tina Turner, everybody was like, oh yeah, me. Come, come, come. And I would see and I would dance in front of the tv and later on other kids would come and would ask me to teach them moves. But I didn't, you know, it was just really something more inherent.
- [12:38]
A
Yeah, it came naturally to you.
- [12:39]
B
Came naturally. But I loved it. I loved it because I felt like this is something that I am now using to be useful and contributing to others. So I really had this nice relationship. And I used dance as a way to communicate with others in a way to be useful and Then later on, because I loved it, I started to, you know, do it professionally. I did sports aerobics. I started to win some competitions. Later on, I was offered a role in the biggest musical in Central Europe and then TV show. I started to work on tv. I worked with MTV Europe and other things. And the dance just took me, you know, really around the world. And that was how I earned my first money, how I was able to leave the country and start my career.
- [13:25]
A
That's amazing. Yeah. And I love how you talk about dance as a way to communicate with others, because that is exactly what it does.
- [13:33]
B
Exactly.
- [13:34]
A
Yeah. So you've now worked at the highest levels of the commercial dance world. So we talked about choreographing for Kanye West. You've had clients like Google and Coca Cola. What did those experiences reveal to you about your artistry or others? Artistry?
- [13:50]
B
For me, I think one of the things that I'm really, really grateful is the people who are brave enough to give me a chance, because I was really like some, like a outcast, underdog, a little bit of weird element in that monochromatic society. So when there was a client who would say, we trust this boy can do it. And I started my first business when I was like 16 to 18, because I wanted to earn money so I could take care of my mom and also escape the circumstances that I was in. So business came pretty early. And people would ask me, okay, can you build a dance show for us, or can you do this? And later on, can you build a dance show, but also build a stage and bring the lights? And that's how my first production company started. So for me, most important was people who allowed me to make mistake, who were, like, courageous enough to not only give me a chance, but allow me to do things my way. And of course, in the beginning, you make mistakes. So what I learned about artistry is that I'm my biggest critic that I have. I'm very anxious when I'm creating and that I have this pool between am I doing it for people to like it, or am I doing it for me to like it? And then, because if you do art and you know it very well, and every artist that creates new, new things is that you can be in service of something or someone and be the craft person, Right? Do the craft, or you can self express or do things just because you want to communicate something out. These two worlds, they overlap, but they are not the same. When I was, you know, doing a global campaign for iPad Pro, or when we were doing events For T Mobile or launch of a new electric car for Mercedes Benz. I would deploy my artistry in service of a product or a company or bring attention or say something about the product. And in a way you must do do things that can be understood by the people. But then you also want to self express because if you don't.
- [15:49]
A
Yes.
- [15:49]
B
If you don't allow that inside, then you don't have that red thread that takes everything you do and make it coherent. And then when somebody sees it, oh yeah, this was done by Emmy. So how does these two worlds coexist without parasitizing on each other? That was probably the biggest kind of tension that I had as a young artist. Finding my own signature style while putting my art in service of others.
- [16:18]
A
Yeah, I love that. How did you meet Kanye?
- [16:22]
B
I met Kanye in Prague. It's very funny because, you know, I met more famous people in Prague than in Hollywood. I was, I went, you know, I always was looking up to United States and Hollywood and everything that was, that this represented. So when I was 18, I saved my first money for a flight ticket and I went to Hollywood and I got the worst decision. I had a hostel in Hollywood Boulevard because I thought this is going to be the best place. And later on I started to go there like every year and train with local dance teachers and choreographers. Amazing, amazing creatives that I learned from. And then 10 years later I was asked by, by one production company so unit sofa from Czech Republic. They said there is some rapper, you know, coming to, to us and, and he is looking for choreographer. They're doing a sequence and it was Kanye West. Back then I didn't really know who he was. I remember I knew his songs from Daft Punk because I, I like Daft Punk and because he did the Strong, Stronger, Harder. You know, that electronic mix, I really loved that song. So I met him, we met in a four season hotel and he asked me if I would prepare choreography for a song called Runaway. It was very funny moment because first we were supposed to work with three ballerinas for three minutes. Then we were supposed to work with 12 ballerinas for five minutes and eventually we worked with 30 ballerinas for 12 minutes. And this all happened within a week. So I was constantly changing the choreography and everything that I learned before. I felt like if I was just like an academically trained choreographer, I would probably drop the job because I would be too anxious because everything was like in motion.
- [18:09]
A
Everything was, he was the one who was changing his mind or giving me direction.
- [18:13]
B
So whenever you work with like a big star. There is a lot of people involved. There's art directors, you know, there's production. There is. And this was a part of a movie, right? This was the short movie Runaway. It was a 30 minute movie, so it was him, but it was also other people. And then also, I think the production gave me a wrong date and I had to change the date. And I lost the dancers because they couldn't do the other date because they were at the National Theater. Like I'm telling you, once in a while there is a job where everything goes wrong, you know, and it's not even anyone's fault. It's like many things together happen at the same time, but I didn't back from it. And I was like, I can do it, I can do it, I can do it. And then it was already like pushing into a space where I had to go through the night and call people and ask for favors and, like, really, really poor. But you know what? Every time. And this was always with Kanye. This was always true with Kanye. Whenever I felt like I need to suffer, to push and to deliver, after came like a huge reward. Like it has happened so many times. Because we worked together for five years back then with Virgil Abloh, we did like maybe 100 shows. Shows, concerts, you know, Saturday nightlife, VMAs, Coachella. We did tours in Australia, in Europe, in the US and every time when I go, I want it to be better than before. I wanted to, you know, blow their mind. I wanted to bring something that everybody's got, like, wow. It's also because it's Kanye west, you know, you can't just be like, da, da, da, you know, do like, choreography like other artists do, you know, have dancers in the background and just repeating a sequence. He would, you know, have a heart attack from that. So. So I felt like we really needed to, you know, be naked in our artistry. So I felt like every time when I was traveling between Prague and New York and LA and everywhere, I still feel like this anxiety about can I outperform or outdo myself, my. My past self? Yeah, there was an interesting tension. I don't think I have the same approach now because I was, you know, in my early 30s, so there was a different vibe. Now it's different.
- [20:32]
A
Do you still keep in touch with him at all or.
- [20:34]
B
It was very difficult because I think I know his heart. We were very close and he always treated me really well. We respected each other and we had so much fun creating. And he gave me so Much freedom. He never cared about budgets and production limitations. He always went like, go full on. Whatever you need, just do it. And then he would come and be there in the rehearsals and really like, he was like part of the creative process, which was not normal with other artists. So I have, I have a lot of respect. I felt like he allowed me to stretch and really grow as a creative a lot. So when everything else started to happen, with both the challenges he had with the mental health and controversies, I felt like I understand what's behind it and I see through it. But obviously it was hard for people to understand if they don't understand what's behind it. And the symbolism was like just hard and harsh, especially for us Europeans. I read his recent apology and I just wish him to heal and recover and just return with that bright light that I always saw that was coming from within his creative genius.
- [21:48]
A
So, Yemi, you often talk about this idea of embodied leadership. Can you share what that means to you and how it manifests?
- [21:57]
B
Yeah, I believe that the hardest distance we will ever have to cross is the distance between our head and our heart. I think that there is a crisis of leadership in the world right now. Not just because all the leaders are super, super old. And I'm not the ageist, there is nothing wrong with being old, but I feel like if it's only all men, something is missing. But the most kind of visible of what I see is that disconnect from neck up. And that happens with the big leaders, but it happens everywhere. Like everybody is leader. Whether you're a leader in your family or your company or your team, or your crew, or your sport team, or every one of us is asked to lead. And at certain times, and if we only use our head, our leadership becomes transactional and extractive. It's just like an exchange. But when we allow and consult our decisions also with our heart and our guts, our intuition, it starts to be a leadership that is based in values. And it's good not only for me, me, me, but also for us. And I think that that coherence between the head and the heart and the guts and allow to people to really just kind of step out of that transactional model that we are seeing, I think everywhere around us, which is the idea that we built Moonshot Platform around. So the young leaders that we serve, the young leaders that we support and the way they want to change the world around them, we try to teach them and awaken some higher level of self awareness to understand how you connect to your intuition. Because Very often you. You are thinking that your mind is going to tell you what to do and how to do it. But I believe that sometimes your heart is telling you what to do, your mind is telling you how to do it.
- [23:43]
A
Yes, absolutely. So tell us more about the Moonshot platform. What is it? What inspired you to start this movement?
- [23:52]
B
First of all, I just want to say thank you for being part of it.
- [23:55]
A
Oh, I've loved being part of it.
- [23:56]
B
And thank you for being a mentor to young people. Whenever we find a new person that is saying I'm on board, I want to mentor young people. It means so much because I know how much one mentor has changed my life when I was young and I was kind of at the edge and one person has changed everything for me. So I'm so grateful that you came on board and you did that for other young people.
- [24:22]
A
Yes.
- [24:22]
B
Moonshot has been founded on the idea that young people should have an opportunity to work on the future that they will inherit and become the leaders that future needs in process. I built it for maybe 16 to 18 year version of myself. You know, when I think about me growing up in communist Czechoslovakia, I was always a creative kid and I was always like asking why and making people nervous about questions that they didn't have an answer for. The. And I was always shut down and I was always like in the corner. And I feel like there is so many young people who have such a brilliant ideas and we are not listening and they are not heard and they are because they don't have credibility because they don't have, you know, the Rolodex. But it's not just about that. So what we do is we want that in the future when there is a young girl or boy born in, I don't know, Ulaanbaatar, you know, South Central or wherever. And you can see that this is a scientist or technologist or artist. And the parents say, wow, the son or daughter, they can change the trajectory of our country. We need to call Muncho. They'll know what to do with, with him or her. I want that to be moonshot. I want us to be able to mobilize the talent from furthest corners of the world into the table and give an at the seat of where you can meet people who can bring your idea to life, help you accelerate and help you scale whatever idea you have so it can really have an impact to your community, but also to the world.
- [26:00]
A
And what you've built is really incredible. You've identified so many young change makers who are dreaming big and actually solving problems. Can you give a couple of examples of what these young change makers are doing?
- [26:14]
B
Absolutely. So let me give you three. So one is Chantal Zuzi, who is young girl who is albino, who has conditioned albinism. Even though she is black, she's white.
- [26:30]
A
She has been a guest on this podcast, so people should listen to her episode.
- [26:35]
B
Yes. Your listeners and viewers know her. She had a very difficult upbringing. Her parents were massacred and killed during genocide. And she escaped with her siblings, she protected them and eventually she won like a lottery to be able to be in the US And I met her, she came to Moonshot and she just recently actually fulfilled her dream to build like a sanctuary for other 30 Ugandan girls that she kind of left behind so they can also get education and they can be protected and taken out of the refugee camp and have like chance in life. I'm so happy because these are the Moonshot stories because someone with so little still decides not to go forward, but look back and help people that were left behind. So that's one example. Another example would be Mateusz Bohacek, who came to us with a project of translator for sign language. So you would upload it into your phone and you would point a camera at someone and who is whoever is signing, you will read the text. He won. We. We granted him $10,000. He won the moonshot idea award, I think three years ago. And one of our mentors, similar like you, a woman, Ivana Tikac, she noticed him and she offered to pay for his tuition. He then got to Stanford where he published a paper in recognizing deep fakes, where also Google DeepMind noticed him and DOD of us and they helped. They asked him to come on board and help before the presidential elections to mitigate the risk of the deep fakes. Before we had tools to recognize, recognize it. So also very proud. He came to us when he was 18 and today he's working with one of the top teams in AI in the world.
- [28:29]
A
Amazing. You said three.
- [28:31]
B
I know I said three, but I'm so long because I love them and I. And I could speak forever about like for hours about each of these people. I'll tell you one more Miklosunario. So I just came from Bali. I love Indonesia. I go there for 15 years every year. And one of our young leaders, which is. We didn't meet, he applied through the same channel like everyone else, but is Indonesian. And he came with the idea of gamifying learning of different subjects. We started with language and then a different subject. We brought him to United Nations. He was spotted by the ambassador to UN to Indonesia, who introduced him to the government in Indonesia who allowed him to test his AI system at local schools. And now three years later he became the head of implementation and strategy for AI for Indonesia and is building like a company for agenting AI to you know, close the gap for, for, for many people. Right now they are also working on food security program that should be feeding over 70 million people under 18 and pregnant women. Because Indonesia is one of the biggest problems is stunting, you know. So again came here, he was 18 and now he's like changing the world in its own way.
- [29:51]
A
Yeah, that's an amazing. Just the Moonshot platform is such an accelerator for these people and your Rolodex is very strong. So that also helps. You know, you're opening that up to introduce them to people.
- [30:04]
B
Yeah. And it's, and it's, it's funny because when I look around people always say, well there are so many youth programs, you know, what are you going to do different than others. And actually we are more and more seeing that what we do is not really done. And I think part of it is because we bet on people really early when they are just in a place of inception, just hatching their first thing. But I think that is the most important moment because you learn your first lesson and you either learn the lesson that everything is just about money and about exchange and who you know and all that and nothing else matters, or you actually can come into like a healthy community. When people care about your heart, about yes your company and your project, but also your integrity and your coherence between the head and heart and guts and then turn it into way how to accelerate you. And I think these are the lessons that make a difference in how you're going to lead later on and how
- [31:01]
A
can people get involved or help out.
- [31:03]
B
So we are going to start our next Moonshot awards round in two months. In a couple of weeks they will be able to sign for waiting list. So if you know young people who are change makers in their own way, it could be artists, people from health industries, from education, any kind of startup AI. Or it could be refugees because we have also category just for refugees. Just sign up, send them up and. And they will be supported either by money or by acceleration program. We have a two years program or they can be supported by mentors and many other things. We also looking for mentors. So everything is at our website. So if you can show it on the screen. I'll appreciate it.
- [31:43]
A
What is the website?
- [31:44]
B
Www.moonshotplatform.org okay, so time for some rapid fire questions.
- [31:50]
A
Yemi.
- [31:51]
B
Okay.
- [31:52]
A
Sauna or cold plunge?
- [31:55]
B
Sauna and then cold plunge.
- [32:00]
A
Discipline or intuition?
- [32:01]
B
Intuition.
- [32:02]
A
One habit that keeps you grounded.
- [32:04]
B
Breath work.
- [32:05]
A
Favorite place to travel to.
- [32:07]
B
Bali.
- [32:08]
A
I knew you were going to say that.
- [32:09]
B
And Prague.
- [32:11]
A
And this one. I really need to know what is your remedy for jet lag because you travel all around the world.
- [32:16]
B
I am like, I love all the longevity hacks. So when I do, I try to shift my sleeping the day before I fly. Be disciplined on the plane.
- [32:29]
A
Do you take melatonin or you're able
- [32:31]
B
to go to sleep Melatonin with me sometimes I have a headache so I can't really go this way. But I also do IV drips.
- [32:38]
A
Okay.
- [32:39]
B
Because flying really dehydrates me. So I do IV drip. I have lots of supplements and those supplements are just like magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin D3, K2 and many other things. In the morning I really open my curtains and I look into the sky and try to really kind of allow my eyes to adjust to the light. And then I go to gym. I run today, I came yesterday, so I should be jet lagged, but I just don't feel it because.
- [33:09]
A
So you immediately try to adjust to the time zone that you're in.
- [33:13]
B
Yeah, because if you don't do it straight away, then your jet lag will drag for a week. So I'm just trying to push through immediately.
- [33:22]
A
So, you know, I just joined this board of a company in Japan and traveled to Tokyo and I did try that time shifting. So on the way there it actually was pretty effective. I didn't sleep that well, but during the days I wasn't, you know, falling asleep in the meetings. But on the way back I didn't have a chance to adjust beforehand. So it did take me a couple of days. So I will try some of those supplements as well. And the last one. Favorite song or type of music to dance to?
- [33:50]
B
I know this is probably the wrong question because artists hate it, but I love my algorithmic Spotify playlist.
- [33:59]
A
Okay.
- [33:59]
B
You know, because, because I, I know that there it's controversial and artists are like, yeah, they don't, they don't pay and, and all that. What I like, that it brings to my life is that every week I got to learn about new music and it's just in this discover mode. Just share shares with me new stuff and I can save what I like and then create playlists. So I have playlists that are very eclectic. There's like a classical music, There is, like, Afrobeats, there is cinematic music. And I have different playlists by different moods. And then depending on when I want to be creative or I want to dance, I dance at home. I just, you know, when I cook or when I just have. When I'm alone, I love to dance.
- [34:42]
A
Okay. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Have you listened to some of the new AI generated music?
- [34:48]
B
Actually, it's pretty good. These two months in Bali, I had one resolution, that I'm gonna bring more AI into my workflow, and I did. So I learned some new AI tools. One of them is creating music. So, so, so I. Because, you know, I lead creatively. The Moonshoot awards, the ceremony, you know, these different events, and I also do different types of experiences for people, whatever. It's meditation, dancing, breath work, and so on. So I started to create my own music because I feel this is the moment where, you know, it's kind of equalizer. You know, I'm dyslexic. So the fact that I can implement AI tools into my writing and into everything I do, it just really. I don't feel anymore like I have a disability. Like, it's. And with music, it takes you even further. Right. I know how to write music, but I very bad in piano or don't have time. Everybody has the same amount of time. I don't like when people have. Say, I don't have time. I always call them out because it's just about prioritizing time. But I never prioritize to learn an instrument really well. So using the AI, for me, it's really exciting.
- [36:01]
A
Very cool. Okay, so speaking of AI, you are working with a robotics company, Apptronic. How do you think about robotics and humans and dance? Tell us a little bit more about the work you're doing with them.
- [36:15]
B
I love working with Apptronic. I met their CEO, Jeff Cardenas, about three, three, four years ago at south by Southwest. And I remember it was our friend Josh Baer, who said, yemi, do you want to see, like, there is a secret robot. I'm going to introduce you to Jeff. And he just opened, like, a secret door and let me go behind the scene. And there was this robot, and Jeff and I asked if I can teach the robot move. And they were like, yeah, we're going to do a stop time, which means you move the robot's hand and then click, move, click move, click move, click move. And then you let it play together. So I would take the robot and I would teach it my own movement. And within half an hour we start the robot and the robot got alive. And I remember there was this feeling I had that is very hard to describe. It's like, you know, this is going to be huge. Like, like you witnessing something become alive. And because you landed your own movement, it's part of you now. Oh yeah, you know, so. So I just fell in love and I decided to work with them. So first I prepared the first ever keynote speech with robot which was me and Apollo. Their first generation at south by Southwest about future of robotics was called Robotic Renaissance. And then later on I started as their advisor, helping their teams with human centered design and around language as a movement and around the robot and human interactions. Because movement is a, is a big part. They say about 70% of what we communicate to each other is nonverbal. So I think we right now, some people realize how big change this will be. But if I should just like put it plainly, this is probably going to be the biggest revolution of our lifetime once robots will become accessible. Because what we are seeing now in AI is just a fragment of what will happen when the AI will gain the body and when it will start assisting us. And the question is, how intentionally will we be designing those humanoid robots? If it will be important, and for some companies it is. And for some companies I see they are still not nowhere around this topic. If it will be important for us to really design the robots human centered so they elevate our humanity or put us on a sidetrack. And I think that's pretty important. I think if we were thinking about this as we were designing social media, you know, tools or cell phones, I think we would be in a different place. And I think we cannot do the same mistake with robots because you know, cell phone was a huge innovation or huge change in everyone's life. But it's a little box laying on your table. Now imagine there is a entity standing beside you interacting with a 3D world. There's going to be a different kind of disruption.
- [39:10]
A
Yes. With agency to make decisions. I love that you're involved in this because we need that more human centered, values driven approach in technology. So I want to talk a little bit about structure versus freedom. So in dance, structure can be like. For me, I grew up with ballet, it was technique, you know, a certain way to do things. And then when I discovered modern dance is where I learned more about freedom through experimentation, improvisation. How do you personally navigate this tension between Structure and freedom. And you can interpret it however you want to.
- [39:46]
B
Well, I. It's a couple of years when I was applying for my seat at the space mission. Part of my submission to this competition was a competition when they were picking eight artists to go to fly around the moon with SpaceX. And I created a ballet piece called Bohemian Gravity, which was about freedom. And I submitted that piece in my application for the space mission. And I chose this topic because when I was growing up, freedom was a big, big thing for us once. Because being in communism means your borders are closed. You can't just travel anywhere you want. But, but there is a certain feeling about freedom on the outside, but then there is also level of freedom on the inside. And when communism ended and Berlin Wall felt there's people still, I didn't really see they were free because part of that freedom or unfreedom is in us. And we auto censor ourselves. We limit ourselves without remembering why.
- [40:51]
A
It's muscle memory.
- [40:52]
B
It's a muscle memory is inherited somehow, you know, it's in the culture. So when I was building this piece, it was really hard because I wanted to express all of it. But in dance you also have to choose what you express. And I wanted to do this process where I come to the dancers because as a choreographer you go through stages and your, your signature also evolved. And this was the moment, it was just right before the war in Ukraine started. And I remember that in the middle of the rehearsals, the war erupted and we had young dancers from everywhere, also from Ukraine, from France, from, from, from many different countries. And I felt like affected by it and imagine like it's very close, right? Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, it's within that region. And I decided that I want to create freely and I want to see more than seeing a dancer or choreography, seeing a human, an expression of a movement. But that is a really, really hard kind of a frame because, you know, imagine like a ocean. If you want to do a wave in the ocean, it's really hard because the ocean is oceanic. There is no. But if you have a pool and you create walls, you can do wave.
- [42:12]
A
Yes.
- [42:13]
B
So you. In the dance, when you create choreography, you have to create some limitations. And from those limitations you can bounce between them. And doing that with street dancers, which I mostly work with street answers, it's not so difficult. But doing that with ballet dancers, it's much more difficult. And especially when I, as a, as a kind of a street choreographer, you know, don't have that vocabulary of ballet. But still I love to work with ballet dancers, it was a challenge.
- [42:41]
A
Yes.
- [42:41]
B
So when you ask about that freedom and limit, I think one cannot exist without the other. And the biggest kind of takeaway is that be careful what you wish for. Because when you as artists, when you, you know, say something, I'm going to create piece called Bohemian Gravity. Right. So bohemian is like open minded, free, you know, like elevated. And gravity is something that's holding you down, taking you down. And that tension between it is a great source for a piece, for that production. But eventually you have to work through it yourself. And I think that the journey just proved to me that giving yourself too much freedom and asking this type of question on the outside means you really have to go through it on the inside and answer it for yourself, which was not easy at times.
- [43:33]
A
Yeah, I love how you describe that and I see it in leadership all the time. So I'm very interested in this concept of you definitely need structure to unlock freedom or creativity or innovation or whatever your definition of freedom is. But there are times where you're just holding on to stability and what you know, then there are other times where maybe you're just throwing everything at the wall. So you do need both. I feel like that tension is where the magic happens.
- [44:01]
B
Yeah. And also they say, you know, your freedom ends where someone else's freedom starts. When the freedom is unlimited, it's not good for anyone.
- [44:09]
A
Right, Right.
- [44:11]
B
Same for the dance. There was a one technique. I don't know if you know it, you know, flocking.
- [44:15]
A
I've heard of it, but I don't know.
- [44:16]
B
It's flocking. It's like you have a group of people and then one person makes a move and other people have to copy the move. And then when the person turns around, then whoever is in the front is the one who everybody has to copy.
- [44:30]
A
Okay.
- [44:30]
B
And it's very beautiful because it's like a leadership concept because you are not leader by appointing, you're a leader by just happening. And if you have a group of 30 people and whoever makes a move, you never know who is going to be in the front, who needs to be the next to lead, you know, so there are so many concepts that you can learn in the studio, in the movement, that you can then take and transfer into a boardroom, into a company, corporation, small teams, big teams. I feel like 90% of what I've learned I already learned in the studio, on the dance floor.
- [45:04]
A
So, last question. Yemi, what advice would you give to your younger self about navigating your career while staying true to yourself.
- [45:12]
B
Care less about what other people think. Fight for truth first, the inner fight before the outer fight. And remember that courage is a gateway to a great life.
- [45:27]
A
Wonderful. I'm so glad you were able to join me and share your leadership Dance with listeners. And thank you for joining the podcast.
- [45:34]
B
Thank you for having me and see you on the dance floor.
- [45:37]
A
Yes, like Follow and Share the Leadership Dance where we explore how to choreograph the career of your dreams and chat with visionary leaders in business and the arts. Until next time, keep dancing.
- [45:55]
C
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