Loading summary
Transcript88 lines
- [00:01]
A
Coming face to face with a whale and looking into their eye and feeling this awareness, this presence that can shift people's entire perspective on not just the ocean, but the whole planet and the animals. It's a gateway animal, right? When people love and care about whales, then they also start to care about the ocean and they want to protect all of these other creatures. And in protecting whales, you also protect all of these other animals. And I've seen many people come to tears and cry, have these really emotional responses and, and even sometimes change the course of their life and shift out of the work that they're doing. Moving from something like the financial world to spending time trying to do conservation work or work more outside with nature. And that's really exciting to see. One of the big goals of it is to get people to shift their perspective and change their relationship with nature.
- [00:52]
B
Hello and welcome to the Leadership Dance podcast where we explore the art of leadership with trailblazers in business, in the arts. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, share and give it a five star rating. And if you're listening to this episode right now, also check out our YouTube channel, Heladership Dance. I'm your host, Alisa sue lynch and today I'm joined by Karim Elia. Karim is a photographer, filmmaker, whale swimming guide and former Deer Moon crew member living in Iceland. He also co founded cogia, a nature conservation nonprofit free media library. Karim grew up in the Middle east and Asia and developed an insatiable curiosity for the natural world. Through his photography and films, Karim takes his audiences to hidden underwater worlds and documents other natural places in an effort to protect our delicate ecosystems on earth. Karim has worked in over 55 countries, won multiple awards and his work has been featured in numerous distinguished magazines, documentaries and publications. I'm so glad we're having this conversation, Karim.
- [02:07]
A
Likewise. Thank you so much for having me here.
- [02:10]
B
So let's start with your childhood. You grew up in the Middle east and Asia. What was your childhood like? And tell us about your relationship with the natural world from the beginning.
- [02:21]
A
As a kid we moved every two to four years for my parents work and so that meant that I got to see a lot of different places all around the Middle east and Asia and around the world. My mother was a teacher, so when she had holiday, we also had holiday at the same time and we were able to explore locally. My parents were very into hiking and mountain biking, so every weekend we would go hiking in the mountains or the hills, mountain biking. And so we got to see a lot of different cultures and A lot of landscapes and a lot of animals. And as I was growing up, I think that curiosity stayed there, and I loved seeing animals. And that really spending time outdoors meant that my relationship with the natural world grew more and more. And as I started doing photography, that just increased.
- [03:10]
B
Where in the Middle east did you live? And in Asia?
- [03:13]
A
Yeah. So I was born in England, and then I moved to Turkey, Bahrain, India, Korea, the uae, and then I did university in the United States.
- [03:24]
B
Wow. And was it your dad's profession that brought you to the different places or your mom's teaching?
- [03:29]
A
My father was a bridge engineer, and so he built large bridges, which typically take between two and four years to construct. And once you've completed a bridge in a country or a city, you don't usually need another one right away. So we would move from one country to another country, really following whatever project he had. And then of, of course, everywhere where there are bridges, there are also schools. And so my mother would get a job at a school there, and me and my brother would attend the same school.
- [04:01]
B
Is your brother older or younger?
- [04:03]
A
He is older than me.
- [04:04]
B
Is he also into nature?
- [04:05]
A
Yes, he does. He loves being outside. He lives in Hawaii, so he spends his time surfing and living in the jungle, going to the beach and swimming in waterfalls. And he's also a photographer and filmmaker.
- [04:16]
B
Oh, very cool. You started taking photos at the age of 13. At what point did you realize this wasn't just a hobby and that you could do this professionally?
- [04:26]
A
When I was living in Abu Dhabi, I had a friend come and visit, and he was from Korea, and he brought this little camera with him, which was 4 megapixels, which at the time was totally insane. And I started using that to take photos of friends, skateboarding and, you know, just various things around me. I was not very good at the beginning, but I loved doing it. It was a fun way for me to showcase the world through my eyes and look for different things and also to create memories to remember things. When I look at a photo that I've taken, I often not just get that moment, but a flood of memories from around everything that happened in that photo. And I continued to do photography. And when I moved to California, I, you know, started getting a camera that I could change lenses and then start trying to photograph small things, you know, macro photography, little insects and water droplets and night sky photography to photograph the Milky Way. And when I was in university, I just kept doing photography, playing with different lighting and different scenarios, and people started to pay me money to photograph things. Just basic Things like portraits and eventually some wedding. And I thought, wow, this is great. I'm actually getting paid money to do this. And the rate that you get when doing photography is typically higher because it's a freelance type of work. And so I was getting a reasonable amount of money for a university student. And I thought, why don't I just keep doing this? I didn't have any other thing that drew me in more. I was always cognizant of the fact, you know, my parents told me, they said, hey, you know what? You should study something. Do your photography, but study something else, because it's a very difficult profession. Which is true. And so I did. I studied some other things. I kept doing photography. You know, when I finished university and I moved to Southeast Asia and I was traveling around, I just kept doing photography. And that grew into this profession that has taken me to see so many incredible things. And so now I can't imagine doing anything different.
- [06:31]
B
Wow, that's amazing. Do you also develop your own photos? And, you know, maybe in the beginning, what aspects of photography did you really enjoy?
- [06:39]
A
I shoot digitally, so when I started doing photography, it was right when digital photography was becoming better and more interesting. And what was really important for me was the instant feedback. I could take a photo, look at the photo, and then make an adjustment and see, okay, actually, what happens if I move it a little bit to the left? What if I make the background a little blurrier? What if I do, you know, a faster shutter speed? And then making these adjustments and understanding lighting, that instant feedback really is what helped me learn and understand. And so I never actually spent any time doing film or developing the images. It was all digital.
- [07:16]
B
Yeah, because that has come back, I think, with the younger generation, like, at least the instant cameras or, you know, what's old is new, but that never drew you in.
- [07:26]
A
I like film photography. It's very vibey and people like it, but it is definitely more difficult. You can't experiment as much and then. And you don't get that instant feedback. But for me, from a working perspective, it just makes much more sense to do digital photography.
- [07:46]
B
So most photographers start on land. I'm assuming that's what you did as well. But you are now an underwater photographer. So what pulled you underwater and what was it like learning to see and shoot in a completely different environment?
- [08:01]
A
Yeah, I started taking pictures above water, and my parents are windsurfers, and so we would go every summer. My parents wanted to spend all of their free time in Hawaii windsurfing. And me and my Brother kept talking about, you know, getting cases to take our cameras underwater. But these cases were so expensive that it took years and years. And I really started doing underwater photography, photographing these turtles at the local beach. It's a surfing beach and, you know, with a lot of, you know, big waves and white water, but these turtles would pop their heads, like in, out of the white water and the foam. And I kept thinking, like, what does it look like underwater? And what are these turtles doing down there? And so I went in with a snorkel mask and started to explore and with a camera and see that they were eating algae off of the rocks. The waves were churning up, oxygenating the water. And so the best algae for the turtles to eat was right under where the surfers were going. And it created this situation where above on the surface was all of this chaos, stormy, chaotic, violent, turbulent waves and water. And then just beneath it was this beautiful, calm, peaceful scenario where the turtles were just casually munching on the algae. And it made for this really interesting world. And so I started to photograph that. And I realized as soon as I started photographing underwater, it's completely different. It's a whole both from a photographic perspective, where the lighting is different, the colors are different, you know, everything is affected. The way that if it's, if it's cloudy, if the water is moving because it's windy, if there's waves, how deep, you know, what is the particles in the water, Is it a sandy bottom or a coral bottom or a rocky bottom that changes how light moves. And then you have this environment where everything behaves completely differently, right? On land you're in a two dimensional space and you're magnetized to the ground. And if you want to go up higher, then you have to climb a mountain or you have to go on. Whereas underwater you can freely move in any direction you want. And the only limitation is your breath. And so if you can hold your breath and get to a place, then you have all of these animals that are moving in three dimensions. And I think one of the biggest differences when photographing wildlife underwater is most wildlife over millions of years hasn't interacted with being hunted by humans. And so animals come much closer to you in the water. You can get a whole lot closer than on land before the animal, you know, moves away and is disturbed. So you have this three dimensional environment where everything's constantly changing. And in the beginning that was very difficult, but it was also very rewarding. And it meant that I'm able to capture some really unique images from a place that most people don't get to go. You know, most people spend their time, their interaction with the ocean is quite limited. And so you can show people this world that is hidden away that they don't normally get to see. And I think that also creates a really interesting response in people.
- [11:18]
B
Yeah, it sounds like there are a lot more variables that are out of your control, but then if you do get the perfect shot and the right distance and that it can be truly magical.
- [11:30]
A
Yeah. And sometimes you have these scenarios where it is the most perfect and interesting behavior, but the lighting isn't good, and so you just might not get it. And that happens above water, too. You know, so many times it's about. It's about what is the lighting like, what is the situation like? And that's not nothing you can control. So you just, you know, hope to be at the right place when the lighting is good and the right time, and then. And then get a photo of it.
- [11:58]
B
So you actually then transitioned to photographing whales from turtles, and you now swim with whales. So I want to ask this, which is, swimming with whales is one thing, photographing them while free diving is another. So what does it take physically and mentally to get that shot without disturbing the animal? And they're big animals.
- [12:21]
A
Yeah, they are. The first time you use swim with a whale is a very overwhelming experience. They're so big. You know, it's one of those few animals that actually makes you realize your place in the world that, like, not everything and revolves around us humans, because you feel like a little bug next to them. And they're so gentle and often curious. You know, humpbacks will. They'll come up and swim around you and look at you. Like any environment or any activity you do, the more time you spend, the better you get at it, the more used to it you get. And so, you know, my first time swimming with whales, I didn't understand their behavior. But as I spent more time with them, I have learned how they react, how they interact, picking up on subtle cues, you know, how they move their fin or their eye or their body position. And then you just get used to it. So in terms of spending time in the water, and I guide people also in the water to swim with them. So really, it's just a scenario now where I have my camera with me and I'm in the water with the whales, it's very important for me to also spend time looking at them and seeing them, because it's such an incredible scenario. And these animals are so interesting. And then I will, you know, when there's a good moment, I will take a picture. But, yeah, the freediving aspect, there are times when I look at it and I think that would be the best photo. But also, if I go down there, I will disturb the whale and it will leave. And so there's times when I don't get the photo, and that's just a part of it as well. But, yeah, it's an interesting thing. You know, you have to accept this idea that you're not going to get all of the photos that you want and that you should also just experience it and enjoy it and be there. And I've seen people, you know, a lot of photographers, they get frustrated because, you know, they didn't get the photo that they wanted, or there were particles in the way, or they couldn't hold their breath for long enough or something like that. And I think it's important to not get frustrated. And remember, first and foremost, you're here
- [14:26]
B
experiencing it and they're aware of you.
- [14:29]
A
Yes, absolutely. The babies are often very playful and curious or shy, and if they become comfortable, they'll come and they'll swim around you, they'll swim under you. You know, I've had baby whales that go under me and have their fins wrapped around me almost. And the mothers are super aware that you're there. So that's the first thing is.
- [14:51]
B
So the mothers don't get aggressive if their babies around you?
- [14:54]
A
No, I mean, you have. The first thing to do is to earn the mother's trust. Right.
- [14:59]
B
How do you do that?
- [15:00]
A
Moving very, very slowly, figuring out, you know, the limits of where you can approach, letting them get used to you. Whales are like people in many senses. You know, there are some mothers that are very shy and not excited about you being there. That might be because it's their first time being a mother. It might be that, you know, the baby's very young, or it can just be a personality thing. And then there's other humpback whale mothers. They want their baby to be with
- [15:27]
B
you, to be photographed.
- [15:28]
A
Yeah. I mean, I have had been in the water with a mother whale that the baby was shy and kept going up the opposite direction. And finally the mother turned and pushed the whale and wrapped it around and pushed it towards us. Because she's just trying to rest, you know, she's not. For months, these humpback whales, they're not eating any food. And so she's resting and she's sleeping. And so it might be a scenario where I've Spent weeks with the same mother and calf every, every day. And at a certain point, the mother's like, great, go play with them, and she can have a break and rest
- [16:03]
B
and babysit my calf for a while.
- [16:05]
A
Exactly. We are the babys, babysitters.
- [16:07]
B
Wow, that's so cool. So you founded Dance With Whales to bring other people into the water with these animals. What do you observe happening to people in these encounters, especially on their first time? Like, what shifts in them?
- [16:22]
A
Yeah, I think that the ocean is, you know, it's such a different and daunting place for many people who come. They've always dreamed about whales, but they also sometimes are quite intimidated by being in the water with such large animals. And I think that, you know, coming face to face with a whale and looking into their eye and feeling this awareness, you know, this presence that can shift people's entire perspective on not just the ocean, but the whole planet and the animals, it's kind of. It's a gateway animal. Right. When people love and care about whales, then they also start to care about the ocean and they want to protect all of these other creatures. And in protecting whales, you also protect all of these other animals. And I've seen many people come to tears and cry, you know, have. Have these really emotional responses and even sometimes change the course of their life and shift out of, you know, the work that they're doing. You're moving from something like, you know, the financial world to spending time trying to do conservation work or work more outside with nature, and that's really exciting to see. That's kind of one of the big goals of it, is to get people to shift their perspective and change their relationship with nature.
- [17:37]
B
Tell us more about Dance With Whales. How can people learn more about it and what is it?
- [17:42]
A
I started this company to be able to take people in the water and have these intimate interactions with large animals like humpback whales. And, you know, when you do a land safari, you can't get out of the vehicle and interact with the animals, but underwater, it's quite unique that you can do it on the terms of these animals. And so I run trips around the world in Tonga, French Polynesia, Dominica and Mexico to take people swimming with different species of whales. You just need to know how to swim and how to snorkel, be comfortable in the water and relatively fit. You know, the animals, they come to the surface, so you don't even need to free dive. There's no scuba diving. And, yeah, if people want to join, I recommend it. It's Very Googleable. You can just search for Dance with Whales or go to dancewithwales.com and we've got trips that go all around the world at different times of year.
- [18:40]
B
Amazing, amazing. What other types of whales do you see?
- [18:43]
A
I also spend time with sperm whales in places like Dominica. And they're very fascinating because sperm whales have very complex language that they use. They live in family units. It's a matriarchal society and they can have full conversations. And same with orcas. They are toothed whales. They can have different dialects. Orcas, one orca population to another. They have different eating habits, different diets, different cultures, different languages. They're very, very complex animals. So, yeah, I do trips mostly with sperm whales and humpback whales, but there are some trips where other we encounter other species of whales.
- [19:25]
B
Have you photographed orcas?
- [19:27]
A
I have. I've been in the water with orcas in Mexico. I was actually photographing striped marlin and sea lions. And then a pod of orcas came by and it was fantastic because they are big.
- [19:40]
B
Were they feeding?
- [19:41]
A
No, they were just passing by. But they're very big, very intimidating. You know, these are the apex predators. Orcas will hunt, even great white sharks in order to eat certain parts of their body, like their, I believe, their liver, I think, is what they. What they go for normally. Or they'll hunt down whales, baby whales, to eat the lower jaw and the tongue.
- [20:06]
B
So my husband Hugh and I did a trip off Vancouver island where they have a sanctuary for the orcas. And it was a camping trip, camping and kayaking trip, where at night we would hear. They had, I guess, microphones in the sound.
- [20:25]
A
Cool.
- [20:25]
B
And we would hear the whales, you know, they would sing us to sleep. I don't know if they were hunting because I probably don't understand their language like you do. But we would go out in the kayaks looking for them. And I remember when we finally encountered a pod and they were coming towards us and so we had to stay still in our kayaks and you could just see them surfacing and coming closer and closer. And yes, they can be very powerful and intimidating. And we were just in these flimsy kayaks, but they swam right by us. It was amazing.
- [21:00]
A
I've watched them firsthand hunting and I've seen them. I was filming for Our Oceans, the Netflix TV series in Argentina. I was filming the orcas hunting elephant seals. And so they would, you know, they come into this lagoon when the tide is high and they, they come up onto the shore and they grab A baby elephant seal and pull it back down into the water. And it is quite gruesome and violent. There was a lot of footage that we filmed that did not make it into the series because it was just, you know, it's too much because they're not very nice to the animals that they hunt. But it was really interesting to see the behavior. They're so intelligent. It was a female orca that figured out this method of hunting elephant seals and sea lions by coming up on the shore and then taught her family and the lower generations. And so we got to watch the orca. Also the young ones practicing, you know, in these pinnacles that if they got stuck on it, the adults could come and push them off of it and get them back in the water. And so they actually practice this technique and then they learn it. But truly, they'll do things like they'll turn sideways so that their fin doesn't show above the surface, and then at the last moment turn back and then come up onto the shore and then grab this elephant seal, pull it back in the water. So you see how orcas absolutely have all of the capability. But people ask me, they say, like, aren't they dangerous? Aren't you afraid that they're gonna eat you? And I say, when you see a lizard on the ground, a little gecko, do you grab it and then put it in your mouth and eat it? You don't, because that would be crazy. And that they're also not. They're not our food. And so in the same way, we are not the food of most animals. You know, we're not the food of orcas or sharks. And so, you know, many of these animals, they are so good at getting food that they're not going to eat something that is not their diet and that is not appetizing to them. So, you know, and most of these things, like orcas, also, it's family pods usually run by a female matriarch, right? Like, usually female family pod run groups are quite reasonable. The problem can be when you have these bands of roving young males. But even then, orcas are still, and all whale species, they're quite reasonable and gentle and calm.
- [23:28]
B
Now, that said, have you ever felt threatened in the water while photographing or swimming with whales?
- [23:33]
A
I've never felt threatened by a whale. I have been in the water a number of times with whales as they're fighting, so males fighting to mate with a female. And that is a scenario where you wonder and hope that you will not just become, you know, collateral damage. The first time I swam with humpback whales in 2014, actually, I was in the water with. It's called a heat run when males are fighting and there were these two big males and they were smashing into each other and coming closer and closer. And at some point I thought, ah, there's a scenario where I might get smushed between two bus sized animals and then just become pulp. But whales are very aware. And these two, they did split and go around me and then continue fighting. And most of the time aware of where you are. They don't want to bump into you and hurt you. They're quite gentle and altruistic, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen. You know, I have been in some scenarios with humpback whales where they're fighting and it's quite violent and I've had to be quite aware of what's happening, my surroundings, and if there's a moment where I need to move one way or the other. But generally speaking, it's very safe. It's much more dangerous to drive on the freeway in Los Angeles or, you know, really anywhere. Yeah.
- [24:51]
B
All right, Karim, we're gonna do some rapid fire questions.
- [24:54]
A
Okay. I love it.
- [24:55]
B
Favorite kind of whale?
- [24:57]
A
Humpback whale.
- [24:58]
B
What's always in your bag besides your camera?
- [25:02]
A
I always have a headlamp. I have sunscreen, sunglasses, Garmin Inreach, GPS in case I ever need to get rescued, and just some basic items like that lighter lens, cloth. I always have a little camera. Yeah. And yeah, just keep essentials that I never know when I'm gonna end up in a place out at night because I've been distracted by some bug and I've been photographing it and I need to come back and it's completely d.
- [25:33]
B
So even here in New York City,
- [25:34]
A
you know, it's easier to just keep it in my bag than it is to try and figure out exactly the things I might need. But yes, I do have my headlamp with me.
- [25:43]
B
Great, great. The ocean at dawn or at dusk?
- [25:48]
A
Well, I don't usually wake up that early, so as nice as it is to go at dawn, I typically end up in the ocean at sunset and then dusk.
- [25:57]
B
Wow. Sounds amazing. One place on earth you haven't been, but you'd like to visit?
- [26:04]
A
I would like to go to Namibia and see the desert and the sand dunes and the wildlife there.
- [26:11]
B
One word that describes how you feel the first moment you enter the water.
- [26:16]
A
Peaceful.
- [26:17]
B
Nice. And favorite type of music to dance to?
- [26:22]
A
Good question. I like listening to Mongolian Music, but I don't think that it's something that I dance to very often. So. Yeah, I don't know.
- [26:35]
B
Well, now I have to find some Mongolian music you have to recommend.
- [26:38]
A
I'll send you some. Yeah, I don't know. You'd probably be good at dancing to it. I'm not very good at dancing anyway.
- [26:47]
B
Okay. So your work has been featured by National Geographic, BBC Earth, Netflix, you just mentioned, and in over 55 countries and thousands, I'm sure, maybe even more than thousands of hours in the field. What's the most memorable photography experience you've ever had?
- [27:05]
A
It is hard to distill that down to just one photography experience, but photographing volcanoes and being around volcanoes is such an impressive thing. The first time that I photographed a volcano was in Guatemala. I was in this town and you could see this volcano in the distance. And I went up on a hike, an overnight hike, and every 20 minutes or so it would explode and lava would shoot into the sky and tumble down the mountainside. And that set me off on a journey in life that I would not have anticipated going and seeing volcanoes in places. And so I've spent time in Hawaii watching lava pouring off of these cliffs down into the ocean. And you feel the heat of it. And when you watch a volcano, it. It brings up. It's such visceral feelings and emotions. You feel like you're going into Mordor from Lord of the Rings. It's this landscape where almost nothing, it feels like there's this destruction and violence, but at the same time, creation land is being made in real time. Normally with geological things, you have to wait thousands and thousands of years for any changes. But with volcanoes, the land is growing right in that moment. And you start to think what a crazy idea it is that if you heat up rock enough, it becomes liquid and it glows in the dark. It's like a flame. And you feel like a moth or a bug that is just drawn to this flame. And I've gone in to look at volcanoes and thought to myself, I'm going to be there for 10 minutes to look at this specific spot, or a few hours and spent 10, 12 hours. And then the night comes and then the morning comes. So I always bring plenty of gear and equipment and gas masks and food and everything. But I. You know, I've also. There was a moment when I went to see a volcano and me and my friend thought we'd just spend a few hours there. And then night came and then we started to see the northern lights swirling and Dancing above the volcano. And so we watched, you know, these two phenomena happening at the same time, which was just, you know, already just looking at a volcano is the most amazing thing. And then the northern lights is also the most amazing thing. So the two things happening at once, there isn't a good way to describe it. And the feelings that you get, and I've spent so long photographing them, but I also spend a lot of time just watching it and feeling the heat and experiencing it. You go from different angles. I've been in a helicopter flying over a volcano that had erupted, really, in a neighborhood in Hawaii, and this river of lava that went all the way down to the ocean. And you have this awareness of how. How dangerous and violent that they can be, while also at the same time, it's a magnetic thing that pulls you in. So it's hard to pick just one specific moment. But really, I mean, as a whole, photographing volcanoes has taken me into some really strange environments and things that are. There's no good way to describe it. You know, I'm trying with photos to show what that's like, but, you know, the sounds that you hear, the crackling, the rumbling, and the feeling you get when you're there in front of it is stunning.
- [30:29]
B
Well, hearing you describe it, I feel that visceral feeling that you talk about. I can hear your passion, and that sounds amazing. And we're going to be showing a lot of your photos in the video version, so if people are listening, they should check out the YouTube version. I want to shift gears and talk about Cogia. So this is a nonprofit that you founded, dedicated to protecting marine life. Tell us more about COGIA and what you hope to accomplish.
- [30:58]
A
When I started doing photography, it was really just for aesthetic reasons. I liked showing the beauty of the world. But as I spent more and more time in nature and seeing what's happening with the world and how humanity interacts with nature, I started to realize much more how important it was to conserve and protect these ecosystems and these animals. And so I shifted my focus a lot into conservation photography. Still trying to capture people's hearts and attention and get them to empathize with the planet, but at the same time, trying to figure out, how can I do more with my images? And so, you know, me and my cousin, we founded this nonprofit called Cogia. And the primary thing was to. We built this library of photos and videos that is free to use for conservation. So scientists, activists, conservationists, people around the world who don't have funding or access to good media they can use this library for free. That's been going really well. There's people using the library in over 65 countries. We then shifted to. We realized here we are as filmmakers. We go out to places and we tell other people's stories. And we kept thinking, well, how can we create a scenario where people can tell their own stories, give them the tools? So we started a fellowship program where we give young people camera gear and we teach them how to use it, do a workshop where we mentor them through basically making films, doing photo stories, you know, audio mixed media, to tell stories about the natural world in their own communities, in their own language, in their own way. And so that's been a really exciting thing that has happened with cogia that we are expanding out and looking at how we can do it remotely and in different parts of the world and run these workshops so that we don't have to lead them every year, but they can be led by people locally. And then we also do impact projects where we make films about, you know, issues in different places. A lot of our team is based in Lebanon, so we're making films there. And myself, I'm half Lebanese, so we're working on documentaries and films there. COGIA is an ecosystem to be able to do more with our images and to do more with storytelling than just put a picture of a fish out into the world and say, here's a fish. It's so nice. We started off as ocean conservation. We have since expanded to all nature things on land and from the air as well. It's been an exciting medium and method to try and use storytelling and bridge the gap between science and the public and conservation, to use aesthetics to showcase how beautiful our planet is so that we can do a better job protecting it.
- [33:38]
B
So how can people get involved or support the work?
- [33:41]
A
Yeah, we have a website, cogia.org There's a few ways to get involved. We have volunteers who do things. People can also get involved financially if they are interested in donating. We're a nonprofit, so we have people who help in that way, patron the organization. We have communities and people we work with around the world. And if nothing else, if you know anyone who would find this tool to be useful, to let them know, or anyone who might want to get involved to also pass along the message. And we also make films. And so if you just want to see beautiful natural spaces and see the work of various photographers and filmmakers trying to tell conservation stories, then, yeah, that's another way.
- [34:27]
B
So you travel around the world, and I believe you Split your time between Iceland and Hawaii. In addition to traveling all around the world, how do you think about home and how do you sustain yourself creatively across so much movement?
- [34:43]
A
That's a great question. It's hard to do so. I never grew up in any one place and so this idea of where home is, I feel quite comfortable all around the world. My family is in Hawaii, so I try and spend as much time there I can, but it is quite far. My wife is Icelandic and I'm building a community and really, you know, my stuff is in Iceland and so that's, that's also where I go back to where I spend the most time.
- [35:11]
B
Do you travel together?
- [35:13]
A
Sometimes, yeah. I. When, when she can, she travels with me or we, we go to places. But yeah, this, this idea of being creative and, and doing what I do, I bring my computer with me. I try and do all of the administrative things from afar, but at the end of the day, I just make sure that I still am always pursuing passion projects, things that I want to photograph. Most of my work is not for clients. It's something that I'm interested in. And so I spend time photographing and filming that and then try and make something of that. And what that means is I really have all of the control creatively to be able to tell a story, how I want to. To photograph a scenario, and then I try and license those photos or put things in photo competitions. Of course there's client work that needs to be done and so you're in a little bit of a structure. But I think, you know, the more that I do things in my style, then the more people see that that's what they're going to get and so they'll hire me for that. I feel quite lucky that a lot of the work that I do and the style that I photograph and film in is something that is quite palatable for general all audiences. Some artists, what they love to do is quite niche. I think that's much more difficult. What I do, you know, is just I'm trying to get into the world of these animals and to showcase, you know, what does the world look like from their perspective? What does it look like when you get up close to an insect and show its environment in a way that, that is different than what humans normally see? Most humans, when you see an animal, you just look at it from your regular human standing position. What I'll try and do is to lay down on the ground, see what the background is, and photograph it in its environment in a way that we don't normally get to see. And I think that is quite exciting and resonates with people.
- [37:09]
B
Yeah, you're very talented.
- [37:11]
A
Thank you so much.
- [37:12]
B
So you were a mentor on the Moonshot platform in Prague, which is how we met. What draws you to mentorship? And what do you think the next generation of conservation storytellers needs most right now?
- [37:25]
A
I think, you know, it's maybe a cliche to say that, like, the next generation and the youth, but, like, the reality is that we get confined into these boxes and these ways of doing things when we're older. So young people, they're not limited by the bounds of what you're supposed to do when you make a film or when you tell a story. You know, we ran a fellowship program in Wales, and it was so interesting to see some of the people, they had never touched a camera, and so they did things in their films. You know, one woman, she drew and wrote things out and then scanned that and put that on top of her film. And we thought, like, wow, we should do that. Like, that's what a cool idea. And so in that sense, you know, when working with young people and mentoring to. Not just to teach them what you know, but to also see how they work and how they think when they're not confined by the boxes. And with cogia, when we do these storytelling workshops, these fellowships, we don't want to say this is how you make a film, because people that come from different communities have traditional ways of telling stories. And so we really encourage people to do it in their own way. How do your grandparents tell stories? How do your ancestors tell stories? How do you want to tell stories? And then what we can do is to try and give them the tools physically, cameras and things that like, but also the support that they need, and then help them distribute that so that more people can see it. You know, there are structures of how to tell a story that have been done for thousands of years, but then there's also new and novel ways. And I think that's exciting about mentoring people and helping them. And I think, for me, also, I try not to say, you know, these are the settings. This is how you do it. It's more a philosophy of. Of how can you look at the world in a way that will expand and let you be more curious and be more excited and also know that you don't have to go in a structured format, but that you can actually do things differently.
- [39:30]
B
So, last question. You've built a life entirely on your own terms, following your curiosity into some of the most remote and extraordinary places on earth. What would you tell a younger Karim about pursuing your child dreams?
- [39:45]
A
Good question. I think that I've obviously been very lucky. I've had the opportunity to, you know, the upbringing that allowed me to pursue these, you know, to be comfortable traveling, to be comfortable in, you know, different scenarios and adapt from moving to different places and traveling so much. It's important to not say, you know, follow your passions and it'll all work itself out, right? Like, I am not good at drawing and painting. I'm terrible at it. I think if I had pursued that, that it would have been a lot more difficult and less successful. With caution, I would say, you know, there's routes you can take to pursue things that you love doing and that you're good at, but also to have some other ideas, backup plans, you know, be malleable and to, you know, enjoy the experience. I think advice for my younger self, something that I was not good at was figuring out and prioritizing what are the things that are the most important that will take me the farthest and to focus on those first because there's so many options and so many opportunities. And what do you do, you know, which direction do you go to not try and say yes to everything, because then you can just be drowned in too much stuff and then you're not actually focusing on the things that you want to do. I encourage, you know, everyone to do the things that they love. You know, if you can turn that into a career and still love it, then do that. There's also something to be said about keeping passions as a passion so that you can enjoy them and not feel like it's a chore, but mainly to always engage in your own projects. You know, if you are going to be a photographer and you're doing photography work, make sure that you spend a lot of time doing your own photography. If you're going to be, you know, a painter or a musician. Like, if you're a musician, make sure that as well as doing the stuff that brings you money, you know, you need the bread and butter. Make sure to be doing those things that you want to do as you go through your career. And when you look back, the stuff that will be the most important will be the things that you did for yourself, not the things that you did for a client.
- [41:47]
B
Do the things that you love. It's wonderful advice. So, Karim, I'm so glad we could meet up in person while you're visiting New York and have this conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your leadership Dance on the podcast.
- [41:59]
A
Thank you so much for having me here. It was such a pleasure.
- [42:02]
B
Yeah, awesome. Like follow and Share the Leadership Dance where we explore how to choreograph the career of your dream dreams and chat with visionary leaders in arts and business. Until next time, keep dancing. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Opportunities take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.