The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy

Episode 105: Get Your Mind Right – Mining for Motivation (Tips From the FBI and Serial Killers)
Hosts: Dr. James Hawkins (A) & Dr. Ryan Reyna (C)
Release Date: January 8, 2025

Overview

In this engaging entry in the "Get Your Mind Right" series, Dr. James Hawkins and Dr. Ryan Reyna dive into the crucial concept of motivation within Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT)—both for therapists and clients. Drawing parallels from FBI behavioral analysis and even the psychology of serial killers, they discuss how deeply attuned motivation-mining leads to effective therapy. Through a mix of reflection, practical tips, and stories from their own practices, they guide therapists toward more meaningful clinical interventions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Understanding Motivation

• Therapist Preparation:
  Therapists need to "get their mind right" by focusing on motivation—not just in clients, but in themselves as they enter sessions ([00:37], [01:18]).
• Core Question:
  What is driving this behavior or emotion right now? If therapists get stuck on surface-level symptoms or aim for first-order change, they risk missing what truly matters to clients ([05:20]).

Lessons from the FBI and Serial Killers

• Profiling Techniques and Therapy:
  Ryan shares insights from an FBI profiling book (by John Douglas): "If you can find the why and the how of a murder, then the who becomes much easier to find." This translates to therapy: if you can tap into a client’s core motivation, everything else aligns ([03:41], [04:14]).
• Motivation-Based Questions:
  Just as in criminal profiling, asking questions tied to motivation “opens doors” in therapy. Understanding what intrinsically drives a client creates powerful openings ([04:30]).

Attachment as a Motivational System

• Sue Johnson’s Radical Reframe:
  Viewing behaviors—even extreme or distressing ones—as rooted in attachment motivation is a core premise. “It takes a trained and committed eye to see that as an attachment panic and attachment distress.” (Ryan, [02:32])
• Emotional Expression = Motivational Expression:
  “Emotion and motivation are the same word, by the way... that’s literally what emotion is, what’s moving them.” (James, [15:04])

Practical Application: Mining for Motivation in Session

• Beyond the Obvious Answer:
  When therapists ask, “What’s motivating you?” the most common client answer is, “I want my partner to stop doing that thing I don’t like.” Going deeper means seeking the underlying longing or fear ([06:13]-[06:44]).
• Clinical Example:
  James shares about working with a powerful, seemingly off-putting client—by naming and validating the client’s motivation (legacy, family security), space opened for real change ([13:18]).
• Therapist Self-Talk & Mindset:
  Before session, therapists should set an intention: “What’s driving this? Can I see the little boy on the couch? What is his heart really looking for?” (Ryan, [23:10])

Vulnerability and Motivation

• Motivation as Vulnerability:
  Exploring a client’s real motivation is exposing and requires vulnerability from both client and therapist ([15:48], [16:46]).
• Evoking Empathy:
  Sharing deeper motivations helps evoke empathy from partners and fosters healing—“If I can talk about what’s motivating me, that has a higher percentage chance of evoking empathy from my partner.” (James, [17:01])

“Jumping In” – Committing as a Therapist

• The Cold Plunge Analogy:
  Ryan compares diving into motivation and emotion in sessions to plunging into cold water: “You have to decide before you get there.” Therapists must be deliberate and courageous ([21:02]).
• Declare Your Motivation:
  In moments of client protection or stuckness, James recommends making your own therapeutic intentions explicit. “I start declaring my motivation. And by the way, I need to let it come from a true place in me...I see something that’s important that both of you are experiencing, and I need to stay here to fight for the two of you.” (James, [29:13])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“If you can find the why and the how of a murder, then the who becomes much easier to find. And you know, if you can understand when you’re interviewing a serial killer in prison... if you can start to discern what is really driving this person...motivation opens doors.”
— Ryan ([04:14])

“Emotion and motivation are the same word, by the way... that’s literally what emotion is, what’s moving them.”
— James ([15:04])

“If you go towards the topic without getting the motivation, I feel like you’re going to still be lost in the woods. You’ve got to get to the attachment motivation to help make sense of the behavior you’re seeing. If not, you will be lost without a compass.”
— James ([25:16])

“When my motivation, what really drives me from my heart...taps into their motivation, we hit this new space of being together, which creates new space for them.”
— Ryan ([27:38])

“Going deep and really being with clients... you have to decide before you get there.”
— Ryan ([21:01])

“Sometimes in my hardest cases, when they’re locking down in their protection... one move I’ve used to try and help there is I declare my motivation for them... I need to stay here to fight for the two of you because if we don’t get this clear, I see how it will leave you perpetually stuck...”
— James ([29:13])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:37 — Overview of episode: why therapist mindset and client motivation matter
• 03:41 — FBI Behavioral Analysis insights and application to therapy
• 06:13 — Why “What motivates you?” is the wrong question for clients
• 13:18 — Clinical story: validating a client's deeper legacy motivation
• 15:04 — Emotion and motivation: two words, one concept
• 17:01 — Motivation, vulnerability, and evoking partner empathy
• 21:01 — The cold plunge analogy for diving into tough therapy work
• 23:10 — Practical therapist self-talk for mining motivation
• 25:16 — The necessity of understanding attachment motivation as a compass
• 29:13 — Declaring therapist motivation as a tool in tough cases

Takeaways & Actionable Steps

• Set Intentions:
  Before session, deliberately focus on uncovering motivation—not just symptom management.
• Embody Vulnerability:
  Model and invite vulnerability by validating and exploring underlying motivations with empathy.
• Declare Motivations:
  At critical moments, honestly share your own therapeutic purpose for the work—this builds trust and alliance.
• Revisit After Sessions:
  If a session feels “stuck,” reflect on what motivations may have gone unseen; lead with this curiosity next time.
• Know Your Why:
  Take time to reflect on your own motivation for being a therapist—this is central in sustaining effectiveness and connection.

Final Words

This episode passionately encourages therapists to move beyond surface-level behaviors and interventions by bravely seeking the underlying motivational currents in every session—and within themselves. By marrying FBI-inspired investigation with deep human empathy and EFT attachment principles, clinicians can create powerful, lasting change.

“Thank you for your why, for your motivation...The reason I’m showing up daily, the reason this is a calling for me. When my motivation taps into their motivation, we hit this new space of being together, which creates new space for them.”
— Ryan ([27:38])