Podcast
The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy
Hosted by theleadingedgeineft · EN
Helping therapists on their leading edge of learning so they can help clients on their leading edge of healing. In each episode, we try to focus on parts/moments of the counseling experience through the lens of Emotionally Focused Therapy, developed by Sue Johnson. We share how we are being pushed in our growth process and things we are learning from our clients in their growth process. We are also thankful for the many EFTSupervisors and Trainers who share their learning nuggets with us to pass on to you. We invite you into a brave space as we all push our leading edges of learning and healing.
116episodes
Episodes
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139. Stage 2 Series: 8 Targets + 8 Cues to Guide Your Work in Stage 2
2w ago00:38:04Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. 🔥 The “Crazy Eights” (Two Lists of 8) 1. 8 Stage 2 Targets (Where to Go) These are the deepest places where transformation happens: Individual trauma (moments of being overwhelmed without escape) Disowned parts of self (rejected to survive connection) Attachment injuries (relational “never again” moments) Significant loss (grief that reshapes attachment) Family-of-origin wounds (roles, neglect, triangulation) Early/formative relational experiences (first heartbreaks, betrayals) Negative working model of self (“I am not enough”) Fear of reaching + deepest attachment longings 2. 8 Scene Evocation Cues (How to Get There) Used to unlock deep emotional processing: What do you see? What are the colors/details in the room? What is the temperature? What are you sitting on? What is touching your body (clothes, textures)? What do you hear? What is happening in others’ eyes/faces? What do you notice in your body right now? 💡 Top 10 Nuggets from the Show Stage 2 is about building co-regulation bridges, not just insight. You cannot revise what has never been fully experienced. Therapists must go toward pain, not around it. Safety is not the same as comfort. If you avoid shame, you will also avoid transformation. Emotion must be somatically alive to create lasting change. “Fear” is not enough—you must access the meaning beneath the fear. Deep work lowers relapse because the body learns a new path. Clients don’t need to be taught—they need to experience something new. Therapy is most powerful when we help clients say the unsayable. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary
138. Stage 2 Series: “Social Trauma in Stage 2: Inviting Every Part of Our Clients into the Room”
3w ago00:31:37Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. In this deeply honoring conversation, Dr. James Hawkins and Dr. Ryan Rana return to the intersection of culture, oppression, and psychotherapy, focusing specifically on how these forces emerge in Stage 2 EFT. James introduces the idea of social trauma and social betrayal—those moments when central identity markers (race, gender, ability, class, religion, size, region, etc.) are attacked, marginalized, or devalued by the larger society. They discuss internalized racism (drawing from Dr. Ken Hardy’s work), the cumulative messages clients absorb about their worth, and how these experiences shape negative models of self and deep attachment fears. Through vivid clinical examples—adoption, biracial identity, hearing impairment, body size, regional and racial identity—James and Ryan illustrate how Stage 2 work often pulls up stories and wounds that neither therapist nor client fully recognized at the start. They connect this to the CARE model (Context, Attachment, Relationship, Emotional capacity/strategies) and model a stance of curiosity, openness, and cultural humility. Listeners will come away with concrete questions, postures, and interventions to help clients discern where protective “armor” is needed in society, and where it may be blocking intimacy at home, so that partners can become safe places to “take the armor off.” If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast, you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary137. Stage 2 Series: From Summary to Scene: Doing Real Stage 2 Injury Repair
Apr 900:42:24Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. IWe aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com In this Stage 2 AIRM episode, Ryan and James dive deep into one of the most tender, high‑risk, and high‑reward parts of EFT: working with attachment injuries in Stage 2. Building on de‑escalation work from Stage 1, they explore how to move past “talking about the injury” into fully opening the scene of the wound so that real limbic revision can occur. Ryan shares how his own disorientation around when and how to work with injuries led him to train intensively with George and Karen, and how doing solid attachment‑injury work actually taught him how to do all of Stage 2. James opens up about his personal learning edge—how hard it can be, as a caregiver, to invite vivid pain into the room—and what helps him stay present instead of pulling back. Across the episode, they unpack: Why “you cannot change what you cannot open” How to set a platform for attachment‑injury work that stabilizes both partners The art of scene work: evoking 5–7 concrete sensory cues to move from summary into live experience How to hold the injured partner’s pain open long enough for the offender to truly feel the impact Why clients are “not fragile, they’re too stable”—and what that means for our stance as experiential therapists They also connect this process to AIRM, the EFT World Summit, and the broader map of Stage 2—reminding us that deep injury work is not a side path, but a powerful way into the heart of restructuring the bond. Key Teaching Points from This Episode 1. Why Attachment Injury Work Belongs in Stage 2 Most clinical conversations get stuck in “What do we do with injuries in Stage 1?” Stage 1 is about stabilization and de‑escalation, not “doing surgery” on the injury. Once there is enough stability and safety, Stage 2 is where we go to the heart of the injury to create lasting change. For Ryan, learning to do good Stage 2 attachment injury work was how he learned to truly do Stage 2 at all (vs. just using its concepts). 2. “You Cannot Change What You Cannot Open” Effective injury repair requires fully opening the synaptic memory system of the event. Therapists must help clients move from summary (“this thing that happened back then…”) to live, embodied experience in the room. If the pain stays in the background, it acts like a “boogeyman”—emerging unpredictably and hijacking the bond. The task is not to “make them hurt,” but to give the pain that already lives in them a chance to be explicitly on stage, in a safe, co‑regulated frame. 3. Scene Work: How to Open and Stay in the Injury Ryan describes his scene‑based approach: Set a clear platform (framing why you’re going here, for both partners). Open a specific scene of the injury and stay there (often 20+ minutes, “circles and circles”). Focus primarily on one partner’s deep experience at a time. Use 5–7 concrete physical/sensory cues to shift out of summary and into experience: What do you see? What do you smell? Temperature on your skin? Textures around you? What’s happening in your body? In your eyes? “You can’t revise what you can’t open”: the deeper and clearer the scene is evoked, the more powerful the potential for revision. 4. The Therapist’s Own Edges and Nervous System James shares that, from his caregiving/medical background, watching vivid pain come alive in session can be hard on his own nervous system. The temptation is to protect clients from feeling too much, but: We are not creating pain. We are bringing existing pain into shared awareness so it can be held and transformed. Therapists must train themselves like firefighters: Trust your training Trust your equipment (the EFT map, Tango, AIRM) Trust the people you’ve trained with A healthy fear of what could go wrong is important, but must be balanced by a clear vision of what is lost if we never go there. 5. “Right Dose at the Right Time” Drawing on Bruce Perry’s work: therapy requires the right dosage at the right time. Do not do this kind of deep, evocative surgery in Stage 1—that would be an overdose on an unstable system. In Stage 1: We treat the injury (acknowledge, validate, build some safety), But we do not do full surgical repair yet. In Stage 2: The partner is more available to co‑regulate and respond. The bond is more ready to sustain deep limbic work and revision. 6. Clients Are Not Fragile—They’re Too Stable Ryan’s provocative teaching line: “Your clients are not fragile. They’re too stable.” They are stable in their woundedness and rigid organization: Rigid protective strategies Rigid negative self/other models As experiential therapists, if we treat clients as too fragile to go into these places, we: Collude with the stability of the injury Miss the opportunity for deep restructuring We must hold both: Tenderness and strong alliance (like a good mom with a third grader) Relentlessness in going after the dark places 7. Two Core Goals of Attachment Injury Repair (AIRM) Ryan summarizes the two main goals of attachment injury repair: The injured partner sees their pain reflected back in the eyes of the injurer. Not just verbal apologies The limbic system needs to register: “You are with me in this pain now, not talking me out of it.” Often assessed by asking (carefully): “Do you feel like your partner really gets the depth of this?” A felt sense of confidence that, given the same circumstances, this would not happen again. This is not cognitive reassurance alone. It’s a body‑based sense that something fundamental has shifted in the bond and in the injurer. When both are present (often over multiple sessions), the injury can be considered functionally repaired, and the couple can return to the previous stage of EFT work. 8. Platform Building: How Ryan Sets Up the Work Ryan starts with a platform conversation before opening the scene: To the offender: “I’m not doing this to make you feel bad. You deserve not to have this event be the story of you.” Frames the work as a way to retire the “Scarlet Letter” and integrate the event into a larger, more hopeful story. Uses metaphors like sleeping on an unpinned grenade—life is too precarious if the injury is never addressed. To the injured partner: Names that a part of them is still stuck in that place (delivery room, the moment they discovered the affair, etc.). With their permission, he proposes spending several sessions there to go find and bring back that part of them. This platform: Clarifies what they’re doing and why. Re‑establishes consent and collaboration. Begins stabilizing the offender’s shame and the injured partner’s fear before going deeper. 9. The Five “People” in the Room Ryan offers a helpful image: during injury work, there are effectively five people involved: The therapist The adult injured partner The adult injuring partner The younger/earlier version of the injured partner in the scene The younger/earlier version of the injurer in the scene The work is about going after all of them in a redemptive way—bringing those divided versions back into connection and coherence. 10. From Scene Work to Tango Move 5 and Back to the Map Once the scene is open, Ryan sees the work as “old‑school Step 5”: Deep affect assembly in the injured partner Clear enactments to the offender Sculpting the offender into A.R.E. responsiveness (Accessible, Responsive, Engaged) Helping the injured partner take in that responsiveness He often uses multiple, small enactments rather than rushing to ...
Summary136. Stage 2 Series: What Does the End of Stage 2 Really Look Like in EFT?
Apr 100:33:53Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode of Push the Leading Edge, Dr. James Hawkins (Doc Hawk) and Dr. Ryan Rana unpack what it actually looks and feels like when a couple reaches the end of Stage 2 in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT). They move beyond theory and manuals into the lived, embodied reality: couples who can stay in the emotional “fire,” face their deepest shame and pain, and still reach for each other. Using vivid metaphors—from Navy SEAL training, battle buddies, and swim buddies, to military deployments and “embrace the suck”—they illustrate how Stage 2 work transforms not just the relationship, but each partner’s internal sense of self and safety. Top 10 Takeaways from This Episode End of Stage 2 = Installed Positive Cycle You know you’re at the end of Stage 2 when couples can see, use, and stay in a positive cycle on their own. The negative cycle isn’t “gone,” but they can repair it reliably and return to connection. It’s Not About Trying, It’s About Training Stage 2 is like military training: repeated, high‑pressure enactments (often ~30+ deep enactments across Stage 2) build automatic, embodied responses, not just cognitive insight. When the “bricks clack” (the trigger of the negative cycle), their bodies now know what to do. Caregiving System Comes Online A key marker of Stage 2 completion is that each partner’s caregiving system is active and available. Partners start pre‑emptively making space for the other’s pain, even before a clear signal is sent, and can say, in effect, “I know this might be hard for you, and I’m here.” “I Must Be Willing to Know Me to Be Known by You” Borrowing from Leanne Campbell, James highlights that clients must be willing to know themselves—all the versions of self—for true intimacy. By end of Stage 2, clients are less afraid of their inner world; they befriend previously shame-filled parts and bring them into the relationship. Both Partners Can Go Deep and Offer A.R.E. True Stage 2 completion means both partners can: Go deep into vulnerability without getting stuck in blame or avoidance Offer A.R.E. (Accessibility, Responsiveness, Engagement) as caregivers It’s not enough for just one partner to do deep work; dyadic reciprocity is crucial. From “Fix Me” to “Be With Me” A major shift is from “please fix me or fix this” to “be with me in this.” Therapists should mark not only outcomes but effort and presence: “Look how you stayed with your partner for 30 minutes in the basement of their pain without trying to fix it.” Confidence and Relational Resilience Grow Couples leave Stage 2 with a felt sense of, “We can do this.” They have experiential proof that under pressure they can rappel into the basement of pain, stay present, and emerge together—building relational resilience, not just symptom relief. Secure Bonds Are Simple but Not Easy Secure bonds aren’t conceptually complicated: Show up Stay present Respond vulnerably and reliably The hard part is slowing down when the body wants to speed up and remaining vulnerably present in discomfort, not learning 50 relationship tricks. Battle Buddies and Swim Buddies: You’re Not Alone in the Fire End of Stage 2 means each partner has a “battle buddy” / “swim buddy” / “wingman”—someone who will go into the fire with them, not just cheer from a distance. You cannot become a battle buddy without fire; Stage 2 requires going into pain, not just building safety around it. Therapists Must Mark and Install Key Moments A big part of the therapist’s role is to slow down, mark, and install these turning points: Naming the risk Naming the caregiving response Naming the resilience and mutual effort This helps clients encode and remember how they did it, so they can find their way back outside of the session. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary135. Stage 2 Series: Finally The Big Show: Step 7-The Hidden Need
Jan 900:45:29Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode of Finally the Big Show – Step 7: The Hidden Need, James Hawkins and Ryan Rana dive into one of the most paradoxical moves in EFT: helping clients access and ask for their deepest attachment needs. They explore why secure attachment is all about needs, yet why going for need too early is a clinical trap that invites blame, reactivity, and the negative cycle to take over. Using rich metaphors—from ER triage to math progression to “ESPN tickers from hell”—they walk you through how to seed need from the very beginning, how to recognize when couples are truly ready (double greens), and how to move from hypothetical “someday” needs to live, in‑the‑room Step 7 enactments. Episode Highlights - Why “need” is both central and dangerous - Secure attachment = meeting needs through responsiveness and caregiving. - But in Stage 1, asking “What do you need?” usually invites blame and negative model of other (“I need my partner to do their work”). - The developmental order: don’t jump to trigonometry - Needs work in Step 7 is like trig/calculus; Stage 1 work is basic math. - You can’t skip the progression: tracking the cycle, working blocks, primary emotion, softening/acceptance, then deepest need. - Seeding need long before Step 7 - Use language like, “This is what your heart needed here…” throughout Stage 1. - By the time you explicitly go for need, it should have been seeded dozens of times. - Double green lights and safety conditions - Only consider Step 7 when both partners are “double green”: open, present, non‑reactive. - This is the one place Ryan will not enact into a block; the caregiving response must be highly likely to land. - Pre‑7: loading reluctance to reach - Use a “7A / pre‑seven” move: enact the fear of reaching (“In this place I feel so gross, I don’t deserve comfort”). - This both crystallizes the sufferer’s dilemma and awakens the caregiver to what’s really at stake. - How to actually load the need - James’ path: - Strong use of self (embody and mirror pain). - Slow, detailed evoking in the body (“Where do you feel this right now?”). - Gentle curiosity: “If we could listen to that part of you, what would it cry out for right here, right now?” - Ryan’s path: - Use guided hypotheticals (e.g., next Tuesday in the kitchen after a bad day). - Ask, “Your partner really sees you in that place and comes to you—what would they say or do that would ease this pain?” - Then re‑enter the present so it becomes an in‑the‑room enactment, not just a fantasy. - From hypothetical to live Step 7 enactment - The key is reentry: “Can we let that need be here now, in your body, in this room? Could you turn and ask your partner for that right now?” - If it stays hypothetical (“It would be nice if someday you could…”), it’s not Step 7.Using attachment history as a compass - Draw on earlier assessment work: - Who felt safe? - How did people respond when you were in pain? - What would you say now to the younger you who was hurting? - Those answers often preview the exact Step 7 need (e.g., “You’re okay, buddy, just like you are”). - Normalizing “I don’t know” and therapist awkwardness - “I don’t know what I need” is not a block; it’s exactly where years of defense have left them. - Therapists don’t have to be smooth; they have to be slow, thoughtful, and present. - A caregiver saying, “I don’t know what to say, but I’m here,” can be a beautiful A.R.E. response. - Training and community notes - Core Skills 3 & 4 in Huntington, WV (Jan 15–17, 2026). - Externship in Virginia Beach, VA (Sept 15–18, 2026) with repeaters at 50% off. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary134. Stage 2 Mini Series-Caregiver Nightmares: Being Ready for the Predictable Worst Case Scenarios
Dec 2300:45:27Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode of “Push the Leading Edge”, James Hawkins and Ryan Rana dive into one of the most anxiety‑provoking parts of EFT: when the caregiving system red-lights right in the middle of beautiful vulnerability. Drawing on attachment theory and years of EFT training experience, they explore “caregiving nightmares”—those predictable moments when a partner can’t respond with comfort, even when their loved one is wide open and reaching. They unpack how pursuers and withdrawers each bring their attachment strategies into the caregiving role: withdrawers often “loan out their avoidance” as a form of love, and pursuers “up the ante” as their way of fighting for the bond. Rather than shaming these moves or bypassing them to “get to the heart,” James and Ryan show how to move toward the blocks themselves as emotional material, validating the attachment logic inside them and using structured, attuned interventions to help partners reclaim their caregiving systems. With rich clinical examples, regulation strategies for therapists, and practical language you can use tomorrow, this episode helps you trust the process, trust the caregiving system, and stay with the red lights long enough for new attachment experiences to emerge. Main Points from the Episode Framing: “Caregiving Nightmares” & Red Lights - Focus on stage 2 / step 6 caregiving positions, and the “back half” of vulnerable enactments. - The “red light” is the blocked caregiving system: the partner can’t offer simple comfort even when they want to. Predictable Attachment Patterns in Caregiving - Withdrawers as caregivers: - “Loan out their avoidance” or self-reliance: advice, positivity, “be comfortable in your own skin.” - This is a form of love and responsiveness, but often misattuned. - Pursuers as caregivers: - “Up the ante”: test, push, or kick the tires on vulnerability (“it’s just words,” “you only do this in here”). - Driven by hope and fear of being dropped again. Therapist Regulation & Preparation - Pre‑regulate before couples sessions; expect blocks as part of the process, not a failure. - If the therapist dysregulates, you now have three protection systems in the room. Working with Withdrawer Red Lights - Steps: 1. Regulate yourself. 2. Offer an attuned, assertive interruption (contain the cycle). 3. Give 3–5 concrete validations of the withdrawer’s strategy as attachment‑driven care. 4. Reframe the strategy’s attachment function (“this is how you love/protect”). 5. Then gently move toward the part that wants to reach. - Don’t bypass the strategy; work with it as emotional material. Working with Pursuer Red Lights - Normalize that pursuers often lash out or test the first vulnerabilities they’ve begged for. - Validate their vision, hope, and fight for the relationship (3–5 validations). - Help them notice their somatic/empathic response to the partner’s pain (1% of reach or comfort). - Avoid shaming language like “you’re going to your head.” Use of Numbers & Repetition - “Magic” 3–5 validations to regulate a nervous system. - Sue Johnson’s idea: clients often don’t really hear you until about the 5th repetition. Tourniquets & Sender Protection - After a strong send + strong red light, layer tourniquets on the sender so they: - Feel caught and not blamed. - Are reinforced to risk again. - Never make the sender give up their experience just to soothe the blocked caregiver. Trusting the Caregiving System - Leanne Campbell’s idea: trusting the process = trusting the caregiving system. - People do know how to care; the cycle paralyzes access. - Our job is to create conditions for that caregiving instinct to re‑emerge experientially. Hope, Respect, and Attachment Change - Both pursuer protest and withdrawer avoidance are hopeful, survival strategies. - Change often comes through “begrudging respect”: seeing a partner fight their old pattern for the relationship. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary133. Special Guest Episode: Leanne Shares About Her and Sue's EFT Trauma Book
Dec 1600:37:55Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this powerful conversation, Dr. James Hawkins sits down with Dr. Leanne Campbell to explore the heart of EFT and trauma and to honor the legacy of Dr. Sue Johnson. Leanne pulls back the curtain on writing the new EFT and Trauma text with Sue—sharing what it was like to co-create Sue’s final formal publication, how their moment‑by‑moment clinical commentary came to life, and why clarity in the model matters now more than ever. Together, James and Leanne dive into the caregiving system, window of tolerance, and how EFT therapists can help clients move through trauma without retraumatizing, using themselves as temporary attachment figures. You’ll hear vivid clinical language and examples around: trusting the caregiving system, working with highly reactive couples, tracking your own nervous system as a therapist, and using transparency to give traumatized clients back their agency and hope. This episode is a blend of theory, practical process, and deep emotion—a tribute to Sue’s legacy and an inspiring guide for any therapist working at the leading edge of EFT and trauma. Main Points / Episode Highlights Leanne’s “Leading Edge” in EFT - Getting radically clear about the model: moment‑by‑moment commentary on what therapists are doing and why. - Making EFT more accessible and teachable through precision and process clarity. Trusting the Caregiving System - “Trust the process” = “trust the caregiving system” when emotion and connection are alive in the room. - Importance of responding in the same channel as the emotional bid (emotion with emotion, not facts or data). Working on the EFT and Trauma Text with Sue Johnson - The process was inspiring, clarifying, exhilarating, and at times sidelined by other EFiT projects. - The book was well underway before Sue’s death and now stands as her last formal publication—a “parting gift” of stories of hope and resilience. Using the Therapist as a Temporary Attachment Figure - Central answer to “How do I help clients move through trauma without retraumatizing them?” - Therapist “sings the song and dances the dance of attunement,” keeping clients at their leading edge without overshooting the window of tolerance. “It Begins With Us” – The Therapist’s Nervous System - Leanne tracks her own felt sense—especially with reactive couples—and uses it to guide interventions. - She slows things down, names process elements (tone, eyes, posture) to: - Validate the receiving partner. - Grow awareness in the reactive partner whose nervous system is firing outside awareness. Window of Tolerance: Respect and Stretch - Respecting the window of tolerance while stretching it—within sessions and in the client’s broader socio‑cultural context. - Normalizing that trauma work often happens in cycles (do a piece, step back, integrate). Validation as Psychoeducation - Validation reframes trauma responses as survival strategies, not character flaws. - Helps the traumatized partner feel understood and the other partner release blame and grow compassion. Transparency Gives Agency - Being explicit about what the therapist is doing and why (“the best surgeon explains the procedure”). - Therapist’s transparency and emotional honesty give traumatized clients predictability and agency, reversing their history of non‑transparent harm. Parts / Versions and Rewriting Identity - Leanne’s language of “versions” of self helps distinguish old survival strategies from the current, wiser self. - Core EFT aim: “You are not your trauma.” Clients move from “This is who I am” to “This is a fear and a history I carry.” Hope and Resilience as the Core Message - If listeners remember one thing: hope and belief in the power of human connection and healing. - The book is intentionally a story of hope and resilience for clinicians and clients, continuing Sue’s attachment legacy. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary132. Another Option w/ Blocks: Externalization in EFT—Guiding Clients Compassionately Into Vulnerability”
Dec 1100:33:11Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. Step into a heartfelt conversation where Dr. James Hawkins and Nicola Hawkins explore the art of externalization in emotion-focused therapy. This episode delves into how therapists can gently guide clients into their most vulnerable spaces without overwhelming them—using creative, compassionate externalization techniques. Listeners will find practical strategies, authentic reflections, and moments of inspiration that underscore the importance of safety, attunement, and reintegration throughout the therapeutic journey. It’s a compassionate guide for every EFT therapist looking to expand their “toolkit” for helping clients move courageously into their own healing. Top Points from the Episode: - Upcoming training opportunities in EFT and gratitude for the therapy community, especially during challenging times. - The concept of externalization as a gentle intervention to help clients face vulnerability when direct approaches would overwhelm. - Creative metaphors and analogies—for example, “letting clients breathe but not leave”—to describe how to stay connected and supportive in tough moments. - Techniques for externalization: using third-person references, prototypes, past versions of self, and broader narratives to create safety. - The crucial process of reintegrating externalized parts to support clients’ healing and growth. - Reflection on the therapist’s role in providing validation, understanding, and new perspectives. - Practical adaptations for different cultural and client contexts, ensuring inclusivity and relevance. - Emphasis on co-creating meaning—from reframing past experiences to fostering autonomy and choice within sessions. - Encouragement for therapists to remain flexible, observant, and compassionate when clients hit emotional blocks. - Inspiring reminders about the transformative power of working on the client’s “leading edge”—where real change happens. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary131: The Transparent Therapist: Shining Light on Process, Intention, and Connection
Dec 1100:33:50Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode, James and Nicola dive deep into the concept of transparency in therapy and training. They explore how openness about intentions, the process, and emotional reactions creates safety, builds trust, and models vulnerability for both clients and therapists. The discussion includes practical examples, personal stories, and tools for effective therapeutic transparency, plus a rundown of upcoming training events. To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
Summary130. Stage 2 Mini Series-Caregiver Nightmares: Navigating Red-Light Reactions to Vulnerability
Nov 2400:34:25Summary readyWelcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy, hosted by Drs. James Hawkins, Ph.D., LPC, and Ryan Rana, Ph.D., LMFT, LPC—Renowned ICEEFT Therapists, Supervisors, and Trainers. We're thrilled to have you with us. We believe this podcast, a valuable resource, will empower you to push the boundaries in your work, helping individuals and couples connect more deeply with themselves and each other. In this episode, the hosts kick off a brand-new mini-series exploring one of the most challenging dynamics in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT): red-light caregiving responses—those pivotal moments when vulnerability is met with shutdown, panic, or defensive reactivity. Drawing on real cases, supervision moments, and personal experience as EFT trainers, James and Ryan clarify the difference between “green-light” and “red-light” caregiving, unpack why these responses emerge, and offer practical strategies for therapists in the heat of high-stakes attachment moments. To support our mission and help us continue producing impactful content, your financial contributions via Venmo (@leftpodcast) are greatly appreciated. They play a significant role in keeping this valuable resource available and are a testament to your commitment to our cause. We aim to equip therapists with practical tools and encouragement for addressing relational distress. We're also excited to be part of the team behind Success in Vulnerability (SV)—your premier online education platform. SV offers innovative instruction to enhance your therapeutic effectiveness through exclusive modules and in-depth clinical examples. Stay connected with us: Facebook: Follow our page @pushtheleadingedge Ryan: Follow @ryanranaprofessionaltraining on Facebook and visit his website James: Follow @dochawklpc on Facebook and Instagram, or visit his website at dochawklpc.com George Faller: Visit georgefaller.com If you like the concepts discussed on this podcast you can explore our online training program, Success in Vulnerability (SV). Thank you for being part of our community. Let's push the leading edge together!
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