Podcast Summary: The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy

Episode 125: Stage 2 Series – Accessing and Sharing the Negative View of Self: Important Component of Restructuring the Bond

Date: September 17, 2025
Hosts: Dr. James Hawkins ("A/James") and Dr. Ryan Raina ("C/Ryan")

Episode Overview

This episode is part of the ongoing Stage 2 series, focusing on the crucial—but often challenging—work of accessing and sharing clients’ negative view of self in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT). James and Ryan discuss why this work is so difficult, the necessity of going beyond emotion into identity-level sharing, and the therapist’s role in facilitating and supporting clients and couples through these vulnerable moments. The dialogue includes real-life examples, supervision nuggets, and practical tips for therapists.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Challenge of Accessing Negative View of Self

• Complexity: Though it may sound simple, accessing and working with the negative self-view is deeply challenging, especially when trauma or attachment injuries are present ([00:00]-[01:40]).
• Protective Dynamics: Negative cycles in relationships often function to protect against the emergence of these deep-seated beliefs (“the part of themselves that they don’t let be seen… what keeps them from reaching” – James, [00:43]).

“Many of our clients… don’t allow themselves to go here.”
– James ([04:22])

• Chaos in Stage 1: Negative view of self is present in Stage 1 but heavily protected, surfacing only as chaotic or disembodied shame and often fueling the cycle ([07:16], [08:46]).

“It’s one of the major players in stage one... but it’s so protected, it’s so hidden in stage one.”
– Ryan ([07:16])

2. What Stage 2 Really Means

• Depth Shift: Stage 2 work requires moving from sharing emotions to sharing identity-level truths (“not just how I feel, but this is who I am” – James, [10:51]).
• Restructuring the Bond: This is less about pattern interruption and more about restructuring—inviting a partner into the core of a person’s self-view.

“This is a true sharing of self, like sharing of the soul. This is a spiritual transaction here.”
– Ryan ([08:51])

“In stage two, it’s not just how you feel, but this is who I am… not only am I afraid, but I also believe I’m not enough.”
– James ([10:51])

• Markers for Supervisors: A key marker of Stage 2 is when enactments move beyond passing emotion to revealing the negative view of self ([13:34], [14:18]).

3. Language and Techniques for Accessing Negative Self-View

• Enactment Questions: Use language that brings clients into the core of their self-view (e.g., “What are you afraid your partner would see if they looked into your deepest pit?” – James, [13:34]).
• Amplifying Internal Doubt: Ask if clients also believe what they fear their partner sees (“Do you begin to believe the same thing about you?” – James, [14:23]).
• Specific Examples: Identity-level beliefs often sound like “I am fundamentally unlovable,” “I am the problem,” “I am dirty,” etc. ([14:48]).

“If you believe that’s the truth of the essence of who you are… no wonder you wouldn’t reach and ever let anyone see you here.”
– James ([15:21])

4. Therapist Vulnerability and Leadership

• Therapist Attunement: The therapist’s task includes lingering with identity messages and deepening the conversation until the most painful kernel emerges ([16:17], [17:57]).
• Supervision and Learning: Both hosts express gratitude for supervisors who help them notice their own blind spots and for experiential learning with other therapists ([03:48], [04:08]).

5. Trauma, Attachment Injuries, and Origin of Negative Self-View

• Origins: Help clients gently explore the origins—trauma, attachment injuries, parental messages, abandonment, humiliation, family-of-origin patterns ([21:02], [23:36]).
• Timing: Stage 2 is the appropriate context for sourcing these early messages, whereas Stage 1 focuses on stabilizing rather than excavating origin stories.

6. Acceptance: The Next Therapeutic Step

• Why Share? Clients need opportunities for their negative working model of self to be witnessed and accepted by their partner, providing corrective relational experience ([18:50]).

“If that negative working model of self never gets challenged by an opportunity to receive acceptance… they will always have to live with the fear and keep their partner away from it.”
– James ([18:50])

• Restructuring Takes Repetition: The process requires multiple, repeated enactments for actual restructuring to occur ([20:13]).

7. Key Practical Advice and Considerations

• Linger Deeply: Don’t rush. Take several passes; dig until the “worst” negative view of self emerges ([24:56]).
• Embed in Enactments: Ensure negative self-view is present in enactments—not just fear ([25:32]).
• Caregiving Response: Guide partners to offer presence and comfort rather than arguments against the negative belief. Timing is essential to avoid inadvertently reinforcing conditional acceptance ([27:17]).

“If all you keep saying is, ‘No, you’re good,’… all you keep reinforcing to me is I’ve got to be good to be lovable… If there is any part of me that’s off, I better fix it before I let you see it.”
– James ([27:17])

• Real Example of Acceptance: Illustrative client moment where a partner receives the negative self-view with acceptance:

“Yeah, there have been times when that hurt me and I know it. And yes, I still love you.”
– Pursuer’s partner in a client story ([27:58])

8. Memorable Clinical Moment

• Real-World Impact: Sharing a poignant video where a client says, “I’m just like this broken little girl… shards of myself are left. Who would even want that?” and her partner immediately, confidently responds, “Me.” ([28:14])

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “It’s one of the major players in stage one… but it’s so protected, it’s so hidden in stage one.”
  – Ryan, [07:16]

• “This is a true sharing of self, like sharing of the soul. This is a spiritual transaction here.”
  – Ryan, [08:51]

• “In stage two, it’s not just how you feel, but this is who I am… not only am I afraid, but I also believe I’m not enough.”
  – James, [10:51]

• “If you believe that’s the truth of the essence of who you are… no wonder you wouldn’t reach and ever let anyone see you here.”
  – James, [15:21]

• “Linger, linger. Don’t think just the first time you get there, you’re like, okay, that’s it. Like, I really want to make sure you have the worst one in stage two. Linger and stay there.”
  – Ryan, [24:56]

• “If all you keep saying is, ‘No, you’re good’… all you keep reinforcing to me is I’ve got to be good to be lovable… If there is any part of me that’s off, I better fix it before I let you see it.”
  – James, [27:17])

Timeline of Key Segments

• 00:00-01:40 – Introductions and essentials of negative view of self in EFT.
• 01:40-04:08 – Reflections on the recent SV Focus Lab, the kindness of the therapist community.
• 04:08-07:01 – The vulnerability of facing identity-level fears in clients; therapist learning and supervision.
• 07:01-11:13 – Stage 1 vs. Stage 2 distinctions, challenges in shifting to deep self-work, clinical insights.
• 13:34-15:49 – Practical language and questions for exploring negative self-view in session.
• 16:17-18:49 – The need to linger, moving past superficial expressions, therapist examples.
• 18:50-21:02 – Therapist intent, why restructuring requires acceptance, and handling breakdowns in session.
• 21:02-24:52 – Trauma and family-of-origin as sources of negative self-view; timing of trauma work.
• 24:56-28:08 – Supervisory/practical advice; handling caregiver responses; real client example of acceptance.
• 28:14-29:42 – Moving towards acceptance and the power of caregiving responses in restructuring the bond.

Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully grapples with one of EFT’s most delicate and transformative moves: helping clients access and share their most guarded, painful self-beliefs, and guiding their partners to provide the accepting presence necessary to restructure the relationship bond. The hosts provide both philosophical depth and practical nuance, including supervision insights and moving real-life examples. The message for therapists: linger in the hard places, make the self-view explicit in enactments, and foster acceptance at the very core of the couple's dynamic.