131: The Transparent Therapist: Shining Light on Process, Intention, and Connection

Summary

The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy
Episode 131: The Transparent Therapist: Shining Light on Process, Intention, and Connection
Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: Dr. James Hawkins (A), Dr. Ryan Raina (not present), Special Guest: Nicola Hawks (B)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves deeply into the concept of therapist transparency within the Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) model. Dr. James Hawkins and Nicola Hawks explore how being explicit with process, intention, and empathic connection provides safety for clients— especially those with heightened nervous system reactivity—and models vulnerability that can sustain therapists as well.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Transparency in Therapy

Transparency: “Shining through or to be able to see through something clearly.” (B, 04:00)

• Analogy: Being trapped in a dark room until you wipe away a window and can suddenly see possibilities. (A, 01:29)
• Therapists, with extensive training, see the process differently from clients whose nervous systems are more often "hijacked by primal survival threat signals." (A, 05:10)
• Purpose of Transparency: Providing “predictive safety” for clients; clarifies what the therapist is seeing, planning, and why. (A, 07:09)

2. Three Domains of Transparency

a. Transparency with the Process

• Explain steps: “Here’s where we are, here’s where we’re going, and here’s why.” (A, 07:26)
• Especially important in moments of heightened emotion or when asking for big risks. (A, 09:04)
• Example: Telling one partner, “What I need to see first… is you showing your partner that you also can see them. If I don’t, you’ll both be dropped.” (A, 10:42)
• Quote: “I’m not the wizard on the Wizard of Oz who’s hiding behind the curtain… pull the curtain back for your clients.” (A, 09:50)

b. Transparency with Intention

• Declare why you’re asking questions, especially in sensitive areas (e.g., attachment history, sexuality). (A, 13:36)
• Quote: “I’m not asking these questions because I’m trying to come into some judgment about you… the intention… is to help me understand the story that shaped who you are before me today.” (A, 13:51)
• Before enactments: “I want to see how this hits their nervous system. If it can help them see you better.” (A, 15:40)

c. Transparency with Empathic Experience

• Healthy transparency is not about over-disclosing, but about showing you see and care about the client's lived experience. (A, 17:58)
• Analogy: Therapist holding out open hands, showing “here’s my offer” versus holding things close. (A, 18:01)
• Builds incremental trust, models self-attunement for clients. (B, 19:20)

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3. The Functions and Benefits of Transparency

a. Soothing the Client’s Nervous System

• Conveys “I got you”—Builds alliance and trust. (A, 20:57)
• Quote: “Your good intentions don’t convey in the negative cycle… With our transparency we say, I do see the danger, but I also see the hope.” (A, 21:53)

b. Incremental and Gentle Exposure

• Recognizes that light (insight, change) can be “too bright… both desired and feared.” (B, 23:51)
• Honors both the need for safety and the invitation to growth. (A & B, 24:21–25:13)

c. Modeling for Clients

• Shows clients how to express vulnerability: “I’m lost here. Can we go back?” (A, 25:49)
• Defeats therapist shame, provides relief, normalizes not knowing and collaborative problem-solving. (A, 25:49; 27:32)
• Quote: “Even you as a clinician, asking for what you want is an act of security.” (A, 28:49)

d. Therapist Self-Care and Sustainability

• Transparency keeps therapists’ “heart and mind clean” during sessions, staves off compassion fatigue, and increases authenticity. (A, 31:10)
• “There’s nothing I was hiding… I wasn’t, like, hiding… it feels better to say, ‘I’m stuck’ or ‘I’m longing.’” (A, 31:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Predictive Safety (Transparency as a Trust Signal):

  “Transparency gives your clients a form of predictive safety. When we can be transparent with the process… our attunement to their nervous system.” – James (A), 07:09

• On Directness and Support:

  “I can be directive because I’m also so supportive… Can you hear that ratio?” – James (A), 19:01

• Modeling Vulnerability:

  “Hey, I’m lost here. Can we go back?” – James (A), 25:49
  “Even as a clinician, asking for what you want is an act of security.” – Quoting Ryan (A), 28:49

• On Pain and Hope:

  “I see the danger… but I also see the hope… I see how your body is feeling this tense moment. And what I’m saying is it’s not lost on me. And by the way, I’m whispering to their amygdala right there.” – James (A), 21:53

• Compassion for the Process:

  “My heart and my mind… is clean throughout my sessions because… I wasn’t hiding.” – James (A), 31:10
  “They weren’t just doing something to me. They actually got into and helped fight the cycle with me.” – James (A), 31:22

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Important Timestamps

• 01:29 – Metaphor: Transparency as light in a dark room.
• 04:00 – Nicola defines transparency; its meaning in therapy.
• 07:09–08:43 – The necessity and function of being explicit/process transparency.
• 10:42–12:15 – Case example of transparent intervention with couples.
• 13:36–15:40 – The importance of clarifying therapist intentions.
• 17:58–19:20 – Transparency with “using yourself”; fosters trust and models curiosity.
• 20:57–23:17 – On trust-building and co-regulation; whispering to the amygdala.
• 23:51–25:13 – The double-edged sword: the challenge and necessity of gentle transparency.
• 25:48–28:49 – Therapist transparency helps defeat shame, provides body-based relief, and models vulnerability.
• 28:49–30:33 – How to ask for what you need as a therapist; borrowed security.
• 31:10–31:22 – Transparency helps therapists remain authentic and connected.

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Episode Flow & Tone

• The tone is heartfelt, conversational, supportive, and honest. James and Nicola use personal stories, real session examples, and frequent shout-outs to mentors (notably Lisa Palmer Olson and Sue Johnson).
• Genuine vulnerability (admitting mistakes or uncertainty) is framed as powerful modeling and self-care.
• Multiple metaphors (light in darkness, open hands, windows being wiped clean) bring clarity and warmth to the subject.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode is a masterclass in both why and how to be transparent as an EFT therapist. The hosts move fluidly between theory, lived experience, and practical steps, highlighting both the challenges and enormous relational safety created when a therapist consistently shares the map, the goal, and their own authentic reactions.

Clients, when frightened or activated, may not perceive the therapist’s good intention unless it’s spoken explicitly—over and over, in clear, supportive terms. Likewise, therapists benefit from stepping out of hiding and naming not only their observations but also their own moments of not knowing. The message is: being open is a courageous, healing act for both therapist and client.

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Recommended for therapists—seasoned or novice—wanting to deepen their use of transparency to foster trust, safety, hope, and resilience for their clients and themselves.

Transcript

[A]

Ryan and I are honored that many times y' all ask about how to be in trainings with us. And so if you want to hear that, stay tuned. But if you want to go ahead and get into the episode, go ahead and skip right on ahead. Take it away, Nicola.

[B]

All right, here are some Leading Edge training options to train with Dr. Hawkins. Mark the following. February 5th through 7th, core skills 1 and 2 in Bend, Oregon. February 18th through 21st, externship in Houston, Texas. March 5th through 7, core skills 1 and 2 in Washington, Baltimore, EFT community. March 11th through 14th externship in Atlanta, EFT community. March 26th through 28th, core skills 3 and 4 in North Texas, EFT community. May 6th through 9th externship in Maine, EFT community. And to train with Dr. Ryan Reyna, we have January 15th through 17th, core skills 3 and 4in Huntington, West Virginia. January 29th through 31st, core skills 1 and 2 in North Texas. EFT community. Plano in February 19th through 21st, core skills 3 and 4 in Missoula, Montana. February 26th through the 28th, core skills 3 and4, Indianapolis, Indiana.

[A]

Could you imagine you're watching a movie and the character is trapped in this dark place and there's just something scary and eerie and they just like there's nowhere where they can see, but then all of a sudden they find this opening and it's covered by dirt, but then they wipe the dirt off and then they're able to see out of the transparent window and. And it gives them at least a sense of where they are, what's going on around them and what's a possible way forward. Today we want to talk about the power of transparency and having these windows of transparent moments with our clients in therapy.

[B]

Welcome to the Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy with your hosts, Dr. James Hawkins and Dr. Ryan Raina. EFT is a dynamic model that humbles even the most seasoned therapists. Together, we want to come alongside you as you continually push the leading edge of your understanding and application of this wonderful model developed by Dr. Sue Johnson.

[A]

All right, welcome back, everybody. I am indeed looking forward to talking about the power of transparency. And so, you know, I want to give a big shout out and dedicate. I want to say dedicated feels like a big word. But anyway, shout out to Lisa Palmer Olson because she was definitely one of the OG trainers who helped me kind of learn the power of transparency talking to her. So definitely want to give her a shout out. She's a wonderful trainer of this the San Diego area. She does broken bonds trainings With Jim Furrow. She's a part of the original founders of eff. She also runs a nonprofit in in Sacramento. She does a lot for the EFT community for super EFT supervisor. So shout out to Lisa. But before we get going too much into that, I also want to give a shout out to our special guest that's in studio with us, the one and only the Nicola Hawks. I feel like, I don't know like where my like hand clapping thing is to bring you in. Sorry. But anyway, yeah, there you go, Nicola. Yeah, we are in a different site recording today. So thank you for being here and jumping in while Ryan's out on the road going to the wonderful Missoula, Montana EFT community. So. Yeah, that's cool.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So anyway, back into this topic though of transparency. Nicola, I know whenever I bring up a topic to you or talk about things, you love to go look at the, the meaning of words. And so even when I talked about transparency, you immediately went to the doing your deep dive into transparency. What did you find?

[B]

Yeah, one, I just like the word, I guess and it means shining through or to be able to see through, see through something clearly. And I just love that analogy you use of being in a room, the window being darkened or foggy and being able to wipe that away and letting light pass through and just how it applies to the process of what we do in with clients. It's being able to take in their stories and you know, just letting that how it impacts you as you're hearing it, you know, how you're gathering their, their story together and how it impacts their world, their emotions and you know, maybe what they tell themselves or grew accustomed to telling themselves and just being able to get in there with them in those, you know, if you will, the dark places or the unfamiliar unknown and making more light shine into that and bringing more clarity to them, their world and being able to do that with, with them doing it together.

[A]

I like that. So let me make sure. Thank you for that Nicola, because I think that's important to give a good framework to this as we go in. So when I'm talking about transparency here, what I'm specifically meaning is I love the image, you know, that we did have and thank you for building on that is we need to remember we're the ones that probably spent, we spent years in grad school studying different therapeutic models and the process of therapy. Then, you know, once you come into eft, you commit a lot of training and hours studying these systemic patterns of conflict and emotional dysregulation. And, you know, lost longings with couples and individuals and within families. You know, so we study this process in this pattern. So there's a part where we're seeing. We. We see it differently than they do in our. Our nervous system is in a different place than their nervous system is. Their nervous system is high, highjacked by that primal survival threat signal that's saying we are all going to die if this. If we don't control this moment, if we don't fix it, or if we don't. If we let it get out of hand. So there's so many little things they. They don't see. They don't catch the process. Sometimes they don't even catch our questions. They. They're not even attuned to themselves. They miss. They don't hear our questions. So sometimes what we need to do this. What I, you know, and I want to give also credit to Leanne Campbell and to Catherine Rehm, who were some mentors of mine as well. And they were just, they know. And they did a lot of work with trauma clients. And when I would ask them about, you know, what. What is your main takeaways with work with trauma clients, and they both, you know, kind of gave this. You just need. You need to be so explicit with the process with them, because their nervous system is already in that heightened state. Yeah. And so they are on guard. And so when your explicitness, it gives them a predictive safety. I want you to hear that again. I think that's the best way for me to help with transparency. Gives your clients a form of predictive safety. When we can be transparent with the process, where we can be transparent with our attunement to their nervous system.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And also transparent with our intentions. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So those are the, Those are the main areas where I think about that. Transparency.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Transparent. See what the process means. Things like, hey, here's where we are, here's where we're going, and here's why we're going to do it. Yeah, I'm showing you. I know I have a plan.

[B]

And you're making me think. You know, I think the first time I saw. Saw one of your videos and it was so clear. We were in Alaska last year and you were showing this one specific tape, and I was like, wow, you. You do such a good job of let. Constantly, like, letting them know where you're at, what you're picking up and where you're gonna take them next. And next I'm gonna ask you to hold space to reflect I can't remember your exact words, but I just remember seeing that over and over. And I remember sitting there like, oh, wow, okay, I do great over here with this, this, and this, but I need to get better with that. I remember that was the first time that marked out so much for me. Again, going back to the part where you say, you know, we know the process. We know the map. The map. We understand this sense of. Of the tango, the process that we're taking it through. We've gone through it so many times with other clients. We've been trained. We kind of. We have it into our system. And so being able to remember that and utilize it, make it more explicit, really stood out to me.

[A]

So let me come back in with you on that, because here's why that's important. So once again, I want. Let me line this out real quick. So I want to make sure you got those areas where I talked about transparency. Transparency with the process, I think, of transparency with your intentions or the focused area of work in transparency with our. Our empathic experience or empathic attunement to them.

[B]

Right, right. So the therapist.

[A]

So let me go back to where we talk about process. And this is something that just got clear as you were saying that Nicola is. I think that the. The more reactivity in the room, there's a correlation of the more transparent I'm going to be or the bigger the risk I'm asking. Probably the more transparent I'm gonna be.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. So that's probably a good way to think. I've never said it that way, but I feel that the moment I'm like, okay, hey, I'm about to ask you something really big.

[B]

So the more emotion and the bigger. The bigger to ask, the bigger the risk. The risk.

[A]

And I think it goes back to. With the skill. What I'm probably is when Ryan talked about. He shared on a couple episodes back about Sue's safety platform. I'm just being transparent of. I see where you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I see the moment. And here's what I need you to do. I'm just being transparent. I'm not being. You heard me. I was with a group. I'm not the. I'm not the wizard on the wizard of Oz who's hiding behind the curtain in the big palace trying to make it. You. I want everyone to know, like, no, pull the curtain back for your clients. So I'm going to show you the process anyway. So that's that. That part on the. On. On the process. And it really helps. Yeah, it Helps me. So even here, I'll give another example for y' all about the power of transparency with the process. I was doing it. I was doing an intensive. And you know. You know, a while back, man, this was. Wow, this is coming up about a year ago when this happened, maybe. But anyway, in the intensive, and the person just kind of kept, like, struggling with. Every time the person with their partner would want to share something, they would want to kind of give their counterpoint. And their counterpoint wasn't unjustified.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was a valid concern they were having. But what I needed to do was, like, I need to be transparent. Say, hey, I see what you're doing right here. And I see in this moment, when your partner shares this. This is what I'm seeing it do to you. And then when you do that, though, I see how this then leaves your partner not feeling heard. So I want to get to that. But also what I need in this moment. Cause I just asked them to take a big risk and not come at you firing, but to offer their heart vulnerably. So what I need to see first, before I can come to your viewpoint, I need you to show your partner that you can also see them. Because if I don't do that, they will not respond to you either. And then that will also hurt for you, and it will hurt for them, because then you will both be dropped. So, once again, I just want to be clear what's happening here so we can all know what's at stake. So that can help affect the decisions we're about to make.

[B]

Right. That's so good kind of help. I don't know, like, that sense of help, lowering, well, their defensiveness, in a way, but also helping them.

[A]

Can I come back? Because I just showed it to them.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I've done a miniature version of that with two other clients. And they came back and they thanked me. One person in the middle of the session. This is a lie where I have a consent for. But I love how they were. He said, oh, oh, I did. I never see that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I try and offer my partner my rationalization, like, here's my partner before I respond. And then that's why they're getting madder at me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never saw that as an option. Thank you for showing me that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And another client said something. You helped me see the. You helped me see the moment and the possible consequences. I never considered that.

[B]

Yeah, that's good.

[A]

All right.

[B]

They get to see the bid coming towards them, and the. Yeah, there's A risk, but that I can take in what's coming. And I can pause even though I have something very important also, I can pause that and I can tend to, you know, which, you know, I can turn on my caregiving system to care about you in the moment, if you will. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Well, let me.

[B]

So many.

[A]

Yeah, we can go on with that, but we're getting behind on time.

[B]

No, you're good.

[A]

So let me go to the next one. I think also it's important to be in this. Probably goes back to the process again, maybe so far. Sorry if it's redundant, but. But also transparent with your intentions. When I meet new clients or when I'm asking clients to take big risk, I let them know what my intentions are and why. Or when I see a client keeps throwing up a block. Maybe even in the assessment session, if I keep asking questions and I keep seeing this, like, almost like this, like, why are you asking? Why are you asking? I realize I need to back up and I need to declare my intentions. By the way, I would just go and tell you, you should declare your intention before your assessment session. Hey, I'm going to ask you questions, but I'm not asking you these questions because I'm trying to come into some judgment about you.

[B]

Right. Put you on.

[A]

The intention of these questions is to help me. And by the way, I steal this language from Sue. The importance of these questions in this assessment phase is to help me understand the story that shaped who you are before me today.

[B]

So.

[A]

Good. That's just. Those are. That was Sue's words, in a way. She says, I always want to know what. I always want to know what led the person to become who they are in front of me today. So that's what I give them. That's why I'm asking. Because one, culturally, I don't want them to feel like I'm trying to judge their parents when I go into the attachment history, because some cultural groups can be sensitive towards honoring their ancestors and elders. So I let them know that what my intention of the information is. When you start asking questions about people's sexual relationships and sexuality, you need to, you know, I think they should know you're a professional. But it could feel like, are you trying to embarrass me? Are you avoiding something? Yeah, but it's like, hey, the reason why I'm asking these questions is because this is an important part of adult romantic bond.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes the emotional chaos can spill over into it, or sometimes this could be something that helps facilitate the bond and but then, you know, but then something goes wrong here, you know? So I just. The reason why I'm asking is I'm just trying to figure out the nature of how your bond is being impacted and how you do have different ways to fuel your bond. That's why I'm asking. But once again, it's. People sometimes need to know our intentions.

[B]

Yeah, that's good.

[A]

Even with enactments, the reason why I'm asking you to turn and share this, especially the clients who say, we always talk about this. I know you do, you know, and I believe you. But what I need to see is what that looks like in front of my eyes. Or I might say something like. Yes. And normally when I hear you say it, it sounds like this. Like, you know. But today I'm hearing it like this. And I want to know, could you turn and let them hear it like this, right here, right now? That's my intention. Because I don't think that they get to hear it like this. And I want to see how this hits their nervous system.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it can help them see you better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm just being clear with my intention.

[B]

Yeah, I like that. It's like good orienting, organizing, attuning, really, which is a large part of the model itself. You know, just how it works. You know how the process of EFT works.

[A]

Yep. And then even in stage two, when we ask them to take these big risks, I'm like, hey, and the reason why I'm going here to get you to turn and share this message where you even believe these negative things about you, is because if you could turn to your partner and you could find out and go to this really scary place, and if you could reveal it and they could accept you, your life changes for the good. So that's why I'm staying here. Because if we keep avoiding this, where will that leave you?

[B]

Right.

[A]

But if we. But if we could do this and your partner could be there for you, I imagine it would change your world. So that's why I'm staying here. And that's, by the way, that's another thing. That's why I'm like, almost. It is. And it feels very declarative in a.

[B]

Way, but that's why I'm letting some light in. You know, I'm trying to help bring transparency to the process.

[A]

But remember, I'm being a stronger wiser. Yeah. It's like a good parent with their child. Like, I know. I know doing this is going to be scary, but here's what dad is going to do. Here's how I'm going to look out for you. You know, like even, you know, we just did a, we did a training and we went to, we got to go to a beach as a family and our daughter wanted to go out into the big waves. But, you know, she, she has some sensitivity, but I had to explain to her, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna put you on my back. I'm gonna carry you like this. If a wave comes up high, I'm gonna lift you up higher than the wave and keep you stable.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

When you're tired of this and you're ready to go back in, you can tell me and I will walk right back. But I had to tell her all of my intentions before her nervous system could relax and then let me lead her in that rest. Mm, great story there for y', all, by the way. That's what, what you're trying to do with your client.

[B]

I'm like, it's bringing up the image in my mind. It's so cute. She's like, okay, you know, and then.

[A]

Also here I want to say the third one, going on to the third and then being transparent with your empathic experiences. So once again, here, because there is an unhealthy place, we're not promoting like this unhealthy transparency where you're doing something where you're almost sharing in a way to get them to respond, respond to you.

[B]

Like any care for you? Anything like that. Yeah.

[A]

But what we're saying is the healthy form of transparency is to help them show that you see them, that you see the process, that you see the way forward. And what you're doing is, is you're showing it to them so that way they can trust you. It's almost like you're, you could have your hands, like, imagine someone trying to sell you something, but they keep their hands closed and close to their chest versus the person who holds their hands open out in front of you. And they say, here's my offer, here's all the contingencies, here's the pros of the deal, here's the cons, and here's how I think you win. Here's how I win. But that kind of talk is like open handed transparent. And it makes you say, maybe I can take the risk with you. And so I think even in this form of the healthy transparency is trying to say, I want you to see what I'm seeing. I want you to see that. This is where I think I'm Going to, I want you to see this is what we're working towards. Are you okay with that? Does this feel like good terms for you? All right, stay with me then. And that's by the way, people hear that I'm kind of like, go back. Can we go back? Stay with me. I want to go. And I can be directive because I'm also so supportive. Can you hear that ratio?

[B]

I can feel that, yeah.

[A]

I can't just be directive if I'm not offering you that support. So my support level, like George talks about, he's like, James, you use yourself so much because then that also gives me the right, I get more room.

[B]

To push because I'm so holding incremental trust building, you know, and being able to, for them to hear, I don't know, like that internal dialogue a little bit and being able to even borrow from that, like the okayness to slow down. Okayness to be curious within them own selves when things are going awry in the world. When we're not in a 50 minute session. Like, oh, what, how did he do that? He said, oh, I can see, you know, you're breathing deeply right now. You know what's coming up. Like whatever curiosity that you lend to them in the moment helps them to like take on this sense of curiosity with themselves in attune with them own selves outside of session too. So I think that's an all around like gift to the client, you know, that's so good. Like as I'm hearing you reflecting, you know, it's like, ooh.

[A]

But that's a great.

[B]

That's another form change the nervous system.

[A]

A good reflection is about transparency too, because it's like, hey, I see this moment. Yeah, I'm just like the suit.

[B]

I see you, I see you.

[A]

I see something happen here, right Every time, right when I go towards this, your body takes this big deep breath. But she's being so trans. She's like, I see. Yeah, I see. And now with her reflection, she was like. And I want you to see what I see.

[B]

I want you to see what I see.

[A]

Can you see what I see?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does this look right to you? Is there something I'm missing here? Help me fill in the picture.

[B]

Right? I like that. So what's going to happen the next time they're out and they take that big deep breath? They're like, oh, wait, I took that big deep breath. What, what's, what, what's going, what do I need to see here, Nicola?

[A]

Can I get to this too now? Because now, we've talked about the ways I see transparency, but what now you're talking about is what's the benefit or what's the function of it? There's a couple functions. One function of it for me is to help soothe their nervous system, to say, trust me. Yeah, I see what's happening. I got you. So it's a little bit of trust and alliance building. I see it. And even if you can't see it, trust that James see. And I'm going to lead you through right. So that I need to be. I can't expect someone to let me go say this. We were talking about before the recording. I love this quote that George used to always say, good intentions don't convey in the negative cycle, meaning you even as a therapist probably have really good intentions about where you're taking them. And I can say that many of the EFT therapists I meet, a overwhelming, like high majority have really good intentions. But your clients in the nervous system, they don't know that the attachment alarm is saying threat, threat, threat. What they're asking you to do is dangerous. Right. And so with our transparency, though, we say, I do see the danger, but I also see the hope. And I see the moment and I see how your body is feeling this tense moment. And what I'm saying is it's not lost on me. And by the way, I'm whispering to their amygdala right there. And so what I also see is how the negative cycle gets a hold of you here in the past and even right now. And I also see what your heart longs for and what it's hoping for. And I see how disappointing and how painful it is when you can't get it. I'm really seeing how desperate this moment is. But I also see that the only way we're going to change this is if you could turn and share this and if for the partner too, I was like, and can you see this moment here? Can you see how hard they're working right now? Can you see what their body's going through? Like, and I know you don't always get to see this, but I want you to see this part not just for what they say, but even how much it takes them to even get to the dance with you. Can you see that? So good then even to that. But I also get the good reasons why you probably don't. Why it's hard for you to respond here and to be open because there's some painful, like, I'm being so transparent and I'm Even what I'm really doing, Nicola, that transparency is saying, you don't need me to. You don't need to block me. Because I can see the moment, I see the potential risk, but I also see the potential hope. I'm getting ahead of the block with my transparency.

[B]

And where there's hope, right, that, yeah, there's a rest, there's a hope, but, like, the. Again, I feel like incremental. Right. Because it doesn't always happen, like, boom, and it's. Yeah, we figured it out, you know, but that sense of repair, like, being thrown in there over and over, you keep folding it into this opportunity to make repair, the opportunity to do it a little bit differently. Opportunity to, like, come out, to, you know, venture into this place of light, into this place of safety, you know? That's so good. My. Imit.

[A]

My.

[B]

Why say that? It's like my image that you set up earlier in the intro, being in the dark room, you know, it's like you've been in there for so long, you can get so accustomed to that space, and just. Even though you wipe the window off and there's light shining through, think about how bright that may be. Like, it's the both desired, but also that little bit of feared. Right. It's too bright right now. I don't know how to take this light in transparency. Right. So I know it's like visual.

[A]

No, that's good in that sense.

[B]

But, like, for the client that's experiencing it at first, you know, like, can I trust it?

[A]

That's a good one. Because even to every good intervention, there's another side. Because transparency for some people can be like, oh, no, you see me. And that could feel a little bit scary.

[B]

Yeah. But what. But what I. What you're talking about, it doesn't only leave it there.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You know, it's like it holds them, too.

[A]

I see you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I see the good reasons why you are where you are.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I also. And I see the reasons why you do what you do.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I also see. I also see what needs to change here. That's another. Yes, I see. And I also see where you get stuck. And I see what we need to do different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I see the risk it is to do. To try and do something different here.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. It's like it's in my own self. It feels so accepting. Like you're receiving me where I'm at.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Not just to drag me out of that room, you know, here's more light, you know, but to accept and receive me where I'm at, you know, validating, you know, I see that. And, and also there's an invitation, you know, so. Yeah, you're good.

[A]

No, you're good. Because once again, just trying to like, nail down like this the different, I think the good functions of this and why. Why would you do this? Also, I want to say this too. I also think, because we were talking about this, I do think it helps with compassion fatigue or wear and tear on the nervous system of the therapist.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So what I'm saying here, though, is now this is a different form of transparency here too. I think there's also transparency about when as a therapist, the one that comes. The most coherent story that sticks out for me with transparency is when I was a trainer in training. Many of you have heard the story, and I was nervous doing the live in front of George and Ryan and all these people online. And I was doing a good session. But there was a point where my brain kind of. There was a weird dissociation for a moment and I lost where the client was. And when I kind of recognized, I'm like, oh, no, I'm lost. So I just had to say, and my nervous system was freaking out inside. And I said, hey, I'm so sorry, I got lost here. Can we go back? And it's so funny when I reflect on that story, I can't remember if it was this exact way in the moment, but when I tell it, I feel a relief in my body. Even just now, I felt it. Because what transparency does is it takes the therapist away from a shameful hiding place right into a place where it gives. It meets the function of your body as well, too. So when you can be transparent with the process, with a client, maybe that's maybe like, why are we still here? Why this? Like, hey, that's a fair question. And the reason why I'm staying here is this, this, this and this. Yeah, that also gives my body release because it's. I don't have to defend, I don't have to argue against, I don't have to even apologize or going to over promote performance. It's just as simple as let me be transparent. And then even that kind of transparency for me helps provide relief. And then also if I'm lost and I'm not hiding it, it gives my body shame. Doesn't take over me in the session. I defeat shame by bringing it to the light.

[B]

Yes, right. Another mode of modeling. But.

[A]

And then, by the way, let's Take that as another one. It is modeling when you can say, hey, I'm lost here, or, hey, I can see, like, how hard this is. And I even feel the risk in this moment. The clients are like, oh, my gosh, you feel that too? Yes. So I'm not crazy. There's not something wrong with me. And, you know, people that, you know, sometimes I think me, George, and Ryan get a lot of this, you know, because military, sports, all this people bring, like, these very kind of, like, in a way, socialized males or men with drawers. But I think also when they see our transparency, that gives them some permission because they see us putting words to our inner world to say something like, whew, man, this thing. Like, I even feel the heat of this moment. They're like, oh, oh, okay. And it is modeling for our clients and also to say when we speak out, like. And so what I'm hoping for here is if we could just slow down for a moment. Yes. Because I want to say that great quote. I heard Ryan say, even you as a clinician, asking for what you want is an act of security. So even when you ask for what you need in therapy, you're modeling what vulnerability is. Like, hey, I'm lost, and I want to get it back. So could you help me? That is the perfect attachment phrase, by the way. You all.

[B]

That's so true.

[A]

Here's where I am. Here's what I. And here's. And could you please help me?

[B]

Yeah. Which puts it back into. Yeah. One, you're taking care of your. Your own nervous system. And so, too, in order to help take care of their nervous system, to help reorganize around what it was that y' all were trying to explore and, you know, understand and attune to with the client. Yeah, I like that.

[A]

And I wish I could remember the exact words, but I can picture sue in a moment, like, she was being so delicate with the client, and she was going to ask them to take a risk, and she just was so transparent. She's like, I can see, like, kind of like that very. I can see. And I can see how much this. This. This person means to you. They're so important to you. As she does her little lean in and kind of touch the knee. And so I was just wondering. And could you help me? Could you help me here? But she's being so transparent. I like, I see you, I see the moment, and then she even is transparent with. But this is what I need from you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you help me see what it looks like, when you get to this place, what do you do? You know? But she's like. She's actually just being so, so good. Transparent.

[B]

And it allows the client to really, really reflect, really reflect on what is it like for me here? What is it that I do here? Maybe it's quick access for some, but for others, I can imagine, like, oh, wow, I've never. I'm so reactive, you know, or whether it's reactive outwardly or reactive to withdraw, you know, so now I'm really slowing down to really catch. What. What. Help me, you know, how to help her. You know?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think, you know, once again, y', all, thank you for listening. Like, you could tell, like, this is something I'm passionate about. I didn't realize how much it was in me. But once again, shout out to Lisa for helping me learn this. And I think for. I'll say this too. The other great benefit is, once again, that transparency. I feel like my. My heart and my mind, for the most part, is clean throughout my sessions because I. There's nothing. Like, I wasn't, like, hiding and, like, there's something. No, I'm not gonna say it all the time, but it feels better to say, like, hey, I' or I'm stuck or I'm hoping or I'm longing. Like, oh, I'm so happy. Like, just to be able to, like, kind of give that appropriate, empathic, kind of, like, voice to, like the moments and these experiences helps my nervous system as a therapist. And I think also it likes my clients. Like, hey, this was hard, but my therapist was in it with me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They weren't just doing something to me. They actually got into and helped fight. Help fight the cycle with me.

[B]

Stay there with me. Yeah, that's good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, see, you do it in training.

[A]

Yeah, you are right. If you do. I'm so transparent in training because I know learning EFT is an experiential process and it can be overwhelming. So I have to like. And then also some people's nervous system and as learners need to, like, where are we at and where are we going? So I know how to keep installing the information. And if you're like that, then make sure you give your clients that gift. And even if you're not like that, sometimes your clients still need that gift. Thank you so much for what you do. Thank you for listening. Oh, we missed the thank yous. I got writing going, but.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I think that does now. But seriously, thank you for your. Thank you for your transparency. Even with. I'll say this too. Thank you for your transparency that we get to see in trainings. You know, for me and Ryan, it's great to hear when y' all are able to share your journeys in eft, how it's impacting you personally, how it's impacting your work. Now I see people being rejuvenated who are ready to quit, you know, and people taking this model into different areas, into different people groups, into different sectors of life.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

That's amazing. I'm just say, yeah, that's. That's good.

[A]

All right, well, thank you all so much for listening and thank you for letting us be on the leading edge with you as you push your leading edge so you can help clients on their leading edge of learning and love and life.

[B]

Thank you for listening. We hope this experience helps you push the leading edge in your work to help people connect with themselves and with each other. Please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star review. You can contact us at Push the Leading Edge and you can follow us on our Facebook page at Push the Leading Edge. You can follow Ryan on Facebook at Ryan Rayner Professional Training and On his website, RyanRenatraining.com you can follow James on Facebook and Instagram at Doc hawklpc. You can also check out his website, Doc Hawk LPC.com.