Podcast Summary: The Leading Edge in Emotionally Focused Therapy

Episode 97: What Scares Therapists: Being Pulled Into Triangles
Hosts: Dr. James Hawkins, Dr. Ryan Reyna
Date: September 17, 2024

Overview

In this episode, Dr. James Hawkins and Dr. Ryan Reyna explore a topic that strikes fear in the heart of many therapists: being pulled into triangles during couples or family therapy sessions. Drawing from Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) principles as well as foundational family systems theory, they discuss why triangulation is a common clinical trap, how therapists can recognize the dynamic in the room, and—most importantly—how to handle these moments skillfully and compassionately.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Emotional Toll and the Therapist’s Growth (00:00–02:46)

• Both hosts reflect on the humility and emotional challenges of learning EFT and supporting others’ healing.
  • Quote: "Couples therapy...it humbles us all...I’m thankful for those people who fight through even their tears. Their tears are just saying that we really want to get this right. That’s a beautiful thing." (James, 02:15)
• They highlight the value of persistence and community in the learning process.

Defining Triangulation and the Therapist's Dilemma (03:54–06:36)

• Triangulation: Not strictly an EFT concept, borrowing from Bowenian family systems.
  • "Triangulation is just where two people...are involved in some situation or conflict, and the anxiety increases to the point where one of them...engage[s] a third party to lower their anxiety." (Ryan, 04:24)
• The third party (often the therapist) may unintentionally stabilize the distance between the original two people, cementing disconnection.
• Therapists can feel trapped:
  • If they evade with, “I don’t know, what do you think?”, it can sound like avoidance.
  • If they give an opinion, they've “entered the triangle” and risk alliance with one party at the expense of the other.
  • The person triangulating is likely the most anxious one in the room, looking for relief.

Why Triangulation Happens & The Limits of “Solving” the Issue (06:36–08:09)

• Many conflicts (an estimated 69%, per Gottman research) are unresolvable, rooted in personality or perspective differences.
• The “solution trap”: One partner wants the therapist to side with them or “make” the other partner agree, but even if achieved, it can breed resentment.
  • "If I get my partner to buy into this, I’m still afraid they’ll resent me for it. So I’m stuck." (James, ~07:30)
• The real therapeutic task is changing the process between the couple, not picking a solution.

Practical Strategies for Therapists: How to Respond to Triangulation (08:23–14:00)

James’ Stepwise Process

1. Slow down the process:

   • "I know I’m in danger when I start trying to give my clients fast answers." (James, 08:44)
   • Take a moment to attune, not rush out of your own anxiety.

2. Acknowledge attachment needs:

   • Recognize and validate the anxious partner’s need to feel seen—"Can anyone see this? Am I crazy?"
   • "It makes so much sense to try and figure this out...because it doesn’t feel good trying to be on two different pages." (James, 10:25)

3. Clarify terms and fears:

   • What is the problem really about? What’s the pain or fear beneath their positions?
   • "If we leave the pain and the fear vague and unexplored, we’re just going to be chasing our tails here." (James, 12:41)

4. Explore process over content:

   • "When y’all try to talk about jealousy or money or gender roles...when you try to talk about this, what happens in your relationship?...What keeps the solutions you’ve already tried from working?" (James, 13:12)

Reframing and Redirecting Without Getting Stuck (14:00–17:19)

• Triangulation is a tangent—a distracting detour.
  • "When this has happened, we’ve left the map, we’ve left the interstate...This is a distraction move. And so we want to get it back to focus." (Ryan, 14:00)
• Respond to the emotional tone in the room, not just the content.
• It’s OK to be upfront:
  • "Look, I don’t have an answer that’s going to satisfy you right now. I do want to be curious, because I’m sure there’s a good reason you’re fighting for this…what you’re trying to do is to get close with your partner again. But we have this topic that’s sort of driving us apart." (Ryan, 15:22)

Memorable Moment

• James applauds the honesty and vulnerability in stating you don’t have the answer:
  • "But aren’t they going to be mad at me? Isn’t that what I’m supposed to do...Are they going to fire me? But...I appreciate your willingness to come out and be honest with them." (James, 15:43)

Modeling Secure Interaction & Returning to Attachment (17:20–20:36)

• Sometimes, model secure behavior by reflecting both positions—when appropriate.
• The hosts stress the need to acknowledge the anxiety behind the triangulation attempt.
  • "When triangulation happens, if we go back to the base of the model, the most anxious person in the room has exceeded their tolerance, and that’s why the triangulation attempt is happening." (Ryan, 19:38)
• Engage compassion for the anxious partner and track the attachment meaning:
  • "When your partner, the most important person in the world, has a completely different perspective on you, that sends what message about who you are...?" (Ryan, 20:32)
  • James: "I’m on the outside. I’m wrong."

Recap: Therapist’s Toolbox for Avoiding the Triangle Trap (17:48–20:57)

• Slow the process down—regulate your own nervous system and invite clients to do the same.
• Acknowledge the emotional energy underlying the fight for alliance.
• Be honest about what you can and cannot provide—therapists are not arbiters of right and wrong for couples’ unresolvable issues.
• Reframe toward attachment and process—the true “highway” in EFT that leads to deeper connection.
• Cultivate compassion for the partner pulling you in, recognizing their emotional distress.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Therapists feel scared because choosing a side could violate someone’s trust. But avoiding the issue sounds evasive and can anger clients. It’s a tightrope." (Ryan, 04:55)
• "We don’t sell Jeeps here. We’re a T-shirt shop." (Ryan, 19:23)
  (A lighthearted analogy for therapists staying within the scope of their role.)
• "Help me help my partner see it. So slow down the process." (James, 18:00)
• "Let that build compassion for us, you know, that, hey, this is really hard right now, then I think that gives us a chance to catch some of that emotional energy without getting lost in the content." (Ryan, 19:48)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 — Introduction & reflections on EFT learning
• 03:54 — Defining “triangulation” in therapy
• 06:36 — Why content solutions rarely work and the 69% unresolvable issues (Gottman)
• 08:23 — Practical steps: slowing down, validating, clarifying
• 13:12 — Exploring what happens in the couple's process
• 15:22 — Honesty as a therapist ("I don’t have the answer")
• 17:19 — Modeling security, reframing to attachment
• 19:12 — Compassion for the anxious partner; quote highlights
• 20:36 — Tracking attachment meanings in the triangle dynamic

Episode Tone & Style

• The hosts engage with warmth, humility, and humor, sharing honest reflections and the challenges they still face in clinical work, making the episode relatable for both seasoned and new therapists.

In summary:
This episode adeptly maps out the therapist’s experience of being drawn into client triangles, emphasizing empathy, process over content, reflective honesty, and deep attachment-based understanding as the best guides through this difficult but common clinical challenge.