A (2:10)

So we want to talk about today the by request out of North Texas. Like could y' all talk about the new certification? I think people hear different rumors and always good to go to the ICF's website and actually read what's there. But it is true that it's been updated and sometimes it hasn't been fully updated and we're all in a, you know, a season of Change. And change is hard. But one thing I want to say is, you know, the spirit of some of this is we want to, as, as an ISF representative here, we want to further empower our supervisors. Right? We want, we want being a supervisor to be, to be valuable in multiple ways. We want to center their voice. You know, the trainer process is, is tricky in terms of who can be a trainer and how that process works.

C (2:58)

And so timing, location, stuff, exact need.

A (3:01)

It's not necessarily based on skill. I've heard multiple people say there's lots of supervisors who are more experience and might be more skilled as a trainer. And I'm like, Absolutely.

C (3:10)

100.

A (3:11)

Yeah. So we want to. ISEF wants to continue to promote supervisors in their careers. And even at the time of this recording, there's going to be even more opportunities that have been shaped by the ISF board, which we'll talk about pretty soon when it comes out. But this new certification model really empowers the supervisors to be gatekeepers in a way for them to be the ones that make this decision. And that's a really big shift because for, I don't know, 20 years or whatever it was to certify an EFT, you had to send your, your tapes into Canada. And there was only two people. The great Alison Lee recently passed and, and Gail Palmer, who doesn't want to pass. So therefore she had to take some of this off of her 101 and so. And then it was seven or eight people who jumped in. But that's been, this has all been changed. And so we'll talk about that some today. We, forgive us, we do have a couple's model bias. That's how we came in. That's what I spend most of my time studying. I personally think the couples process moves so much faster, requires such a higher level of process skill. I don't mean to in any way negate the importance of, or the sometimes challenging work with individuals and families are a different discussion. I've trained in all three of those modalities. I practice all three of those modalities, but I spend most of my time training with couples. So the ins and outs of the certification process of couples is what we're primarily going to talk about today.

C (4:47)

Yeah.

A (4:47)

So. But overall it's, it's a, it's a big change. And with every other big change, there's some pros and cons that come with that. So let's jump in and talk about what's your, what's been your experience with the new certification process.

C (5:00)

Well, one I want to take a moment as we do. I want to give supervisors is a big thank you. You know, I remember my years as a supervisor and really appreciate that. I'm thankful for in some ways that coming the certification coming home to the supervisors because of the nature of their on the ground personal relationship and how they get to watch people grow from when they first come into supervision to as they progress so they can monitor and notice change. And there's some things they'll see as a supervisor that we won't get to see maybe in the video. So that part I'm thankful for. What I'm seeing is I do appreciate the speed at which it's moving. People are getting certified quicker because they, they don't have that the biggest waiting period because now the whole EFT world waiting on two people. Also I appreciate some of the cultural safety. It kind of makes where, you know, I've heard from some people that it helps with to have a supervisor who is in their context regionally.

A (5:54)

Okay.

C (5:55)

And also sometimes people do have supervisors who maybe come from the community of identity, social identity, factors that they come from that helps them feel a little bit safer in sharing their work or language.

A (6:06)

And.

C (6:06)

And there you go. So all those reasons. I appreciate what an international center like, you know, ISEF did to make this more accommodating across all these like languages and cultural contexts.

A (6:19)

That was one of the main motivations, you know, so that's, that's definitely a pro to it. And I think the another pro is it doesn't seem so steep. Like it's reachable. It's not necessarily easy, but it's easier.

C (6:31)

Uhhuh.

A (6:32)

And so this is, this is approachable, it's doable. So I think people have. Have seen this as more as a gate they can pass through a little bit.

C (6:40)

If you want, you want me to go ahead and get the boring technical stuff out of the way and then I want to get. Because there's some fun parts to certification. So. So technical part EFT is one model in three modalities. Is that still the right language we're using? Ryan?

A (6:52)

Yes.

C (6:54)

So one model, three modalities. And so with that, they wanted to make a space to where it's not only focused couples, but like, what if your person says I don't see couples, but I sure love this model and I want to get certified with individuals now there's a pathway to that same thing. Like I don't really do couples or individuals. Like we know some people down in Monroe, give them a shout out who do a whole lot of family work.

A (7:18)

Work.

C (7:19)

And so the idea of something like EFT for families is a great modality for them. I know there's some people in Memphis EFT community that are looking at EFFT training. So with that, each one has a form of like an onboarding kind of training. In couples, we call it Externship in Individual and family is what we call as a 24 hour essentials class that will cover all the overview of EFT and how EFT looks at attachment and implements it.

A (7:48)

So efit essential. So eft externship, that's couples e FCT externship. E fit essentials.

C (7:55)

Yep.

A (7:56)

And efft family essentials essentials. Although all those are 24, sometimes a little more with couples.

C (8:03)

Yep, 100. And then each one of them has kind of like a kind of master.

A (8:08)

24 hours, I should say.

C (8:09)

And each one after that has like a mastering your skills or in in couples is called core skills. With individual and family, they call it mastering skills and consultation. I'm not even sure what. Because I have done it that way. I came in, in the old school way. Not completely sure what that even looks like. Do you remember what that looks like, Ryan?

A (8:27)

It's just the next stage of the training where we're getting more practical, more into interventions like what do you actually do? So, so there's, there's a. There's some of that also in the essentials class, but it really mirrors the core skills.

C (8:40)

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

A (8:42)

Slows it down, get more specific.

C (8:43)

And then from there. We're still trying to figure out what this means, but there's a kind of like, if you go on the ISF website is what we're writing and are looking at, there's a purple box talking about additional training in between for the EFIT individuals and family therapy model.

A (8:57)

So what, what the EFIT additional training that's six hour requirement is. There's recorded material on ISF's website. So they're wanting to. They're wanting you to see EFIT applied to some contacts. So EFIT with trauma I think is one of the main ones. There eventually will be a few different options, but the main one they're wanting people to take is the one that sue and Leanne did. It's really strong. On EFT with trauma, it's a six hour course and that qualifies you to be finished with the coursework to go towards certification and efit.

C (9:29)

Okay, awesome. And then once you've finished all of the core trainings for each modality, they each take you right into supervision, and you can even begin supervision. I don't know if this. Tell me we're all still building this as we kind of fly, too. You can even start supervision, like, right after essentials and externship. Is that correct?

A (9:48)

Correct. As soon as you've completed the base training, you can start supervision anytime you want.

C (9:52)

Awesome. But supervision is at time. Now it's like, okay, great. I'm doing. I'm either done all the core trainings, or I'm in the midst of it. And now you have a personal person who's kind of like, actually watching tape with you, helping you get better at skills. Here's one little side thing. So you do have to do eight hours of supervision in each model. Or I say model, each modality is the best way to say it. To be able to then qualify for certification in that eight hours. The first goal, please hear this, is to help you get better. One thing I appreciate, when George was my supervisor, he would say, you know, kind of. He'd start off with this speech of, I appreciate you being here this week. And our number one goal today is to help you get better, not just to get certified. And that was just so disarming and took the pressure off of only showing up to supervision for a pass or fail grade. It turned supervision to what it's really supposed to be about, me getting better. And then as I get better, then it's just one day. It's like, oh, this is it. You hit all the marks. Listen, let's send this one in. So that's the one. I encourage you, when you're going for certification, don't make that your first and primary goal. Let being getting better be the first goal. And then certification happens because you got better at doing the model. I don't know. That's just my takeaway on that one.

A (11:07)

I disagree.

C (11:09)

Go ahead, go ahead.

A (11:10)

No, I mean, I like what you're saying, but in terms of, like, what I see on a regular basis, I think the main thing I would say is it's really, really helpful for your supervisor. If you, like, just like an attachment. If you get a really clear signal out.

C (11:25)

Oh, 100.

A (11:26)

So I've had people who had a goal with me but didn't tell me, oh, okay. And then, like, six months later, they're upset because they haven't achieved their goal. I'm like, I didn't even know that's what you were wanting. Right. Which is partially on me. I should have Gotten them to get more clear. But what I find is if people want to get certified and they just. They just use supervision to get better, they don't usually certify.

C (11:45)

Oh, yep. Okay.

A (11:47)

So I think it's fine to say, hey, I'm just going to focus on getting better in EFT for six months. Just as long as, you know, that usually doesn't translate Right. To certification. And so if someone wants to certify, if they're like, hey, I'd like to certify in the next year, I really think it's a great idea to put that up into first. Not in a pressure standpoint, but in, like, what we're selecting who we're looking forward to. Video. Right. Because getting the right couple is a big deal.

C (12:14)

Yeah, that is.

A (12:15)

And what are we trying to do? You know? And that's one of the biggest. Maybe the biggest benefit in my mind to certification is it actually helps you clean the work.

C (12:24)

Yeah, that's the part.

A (12:25)

Yeah. Most people before certification are still doing a lot of integration of different little aspects of other models, whether it's worksheets or whatever. And I'm not trying to knock those things. I'm just saying it's not a bad idea to go ahead and do it the way it's written one time. And this is. I've heard talk to hundreds of people, including myself, who only after certification did I. Did I start to realize, hey, I can trust this model. Okay. It's not that you can't integrate other things, but you actually probably don't have to most of the time. And so that's really valuable to see it play out. And so again, I think. I think it's not a bad idea to put certification first, because when I've never had someone certify, never. Who didn't turn around and say, I'm a better therapist the next week. I agree from this process, but I've had lots of people go through years of supervision and not certify because they weren't really focused on that. So I think it's up to the listener what they want to do. But be clear. Be clear with your supervisor.

C (13:26)

I agree with that 100%. So that in the midst of supervision, what you're trying to find is you got to get. Particularly now, this is me thinking couples work. So you're going to have to help me with the individual and family.

A (13:37)

It might be better just to go through couples and then go stay with it.

C (13:40)

Okay, let's do that.

A (13:41)

Let's talk couples here.

C (13:42)

So with couples Work with the supervisors wanting to see is, can you show them a good, you know, a clean enough demonstration of, of stage one, work with a couple, and then also stage two, work with a couple. And then once the supervisor says, yeah, I think you have stage one, you have stage two, I'm good with you moving forward because the supervisor is the one that gets to make that call. Right. And then the next step after that is you would send those tapes into isef. They have an online.

A (14:11)

Go ahead, you pick one.

C (14:13)

No, that's right. Thank you for reminding me of that. You pick one. It used to. Well, no, we saw. Anyway, you pick one. Either your stage one or stage two.

A (14:20)

Exactly. And send to a trainer.

C (14:21)

There you go. And ISEF will upload that into a HIPAA compliant platform that they have called Hightail. And then you'll let ISEF know, like, hey, there's, this is a trainer we want to watch, you know, to give feedback on the tape. And the trainer's job there is to just come, you know, help the supervisors out and say, hey, I, I concur. I, I see this, this, this, and this. Or they could say, like, you know, the trainer could say, I see what you're saying. They could still be certified. I still want them to work on this, this, and this as well.

A (14:53)

Right.

C (14:54)

You know, if it gets to a point where there's a discreet between the supervisor and the trainer, that's a whole nother discussion.

A (14:59)

Well, now that's. There's. The supervisor decides.

C (15:01)

Okay, got you. There we go.

A (15:02)

Except to them. So, okay, so, yeah, and backing up a step. So you do. The supervisor is the decider now. It's their call.

C (15:11)

Yep.

A (15:11)

And if the trainer agrees, it's time. Fine. If the trainer disagrees, it's still a supervisor's call.

C (15:16)

So I appreciate that Clarity.

A (15:18)

Yeah. And trainers do have the right to, to make a phone call or even go above and say, hey, here's the situation. But end of the day, it is the trainer's call.

C (15:29)

You mean the supervisor.

A (15:30)

Excuse me. Yes, it's the supervisor's call, not the trainer's call. So again, if there's a big, big discrepancy, which I've not really seen.

C (15:36)

I've never seen that.

A (15:38)

Then you could go to like the education committee or, or to the board and say, hey, there's a situation where some more help is needed, that would be a move a trainer could make. But end of the day, it's a supervisor's decision. So.

C (15:50)

And that's worked out well so far. From what I'VE seen.

A (15:53)

Yeah, so. So it can be both. By the way, I've only done this twice or I'm the supervisor, even though I'm a trainer. And in that if you work with the trainer as your supervisor, the same rules still apply. There has to be a second trainer that gives you written feedback. And I enjoy giving written feedback. I've done like almost 30 of those.

C (16:13)

Yeah, it is kind of fun.

A (16:14)

Yeah. Good to see someone else's work. People I don't get exposure to and.

C (16:18)

Makes me get better.

A (16:19)

Yeah. And I'm, I'm seeing a trend here. This is not in the, on the website. This is breaking news. No, but most trainers are requesting that you send your stage two tape. Oh, that's just specific to them. So that's not really a rule. But I guess it's trainer preference on what they want to see. So I think at some level there's some, there's some, you know, discussions around have we lowered the gate too much? You know, are we, you know, letting people certify without sort of showing they can do the big change event? So they would rather see the stage two tape? You know, you show me someone that can do stage two, they probably can do some stage one, but that's not necessarily true in reverse, that's kind of what they're saying. Okay, so that's, that's a thing. Let me back up on the EFCT path here and we can take a break. But so core skills has also flexed some. So as you'll see on ISEF's website, the EFT core skills track traditionally was a 48 hour training which was broken up in a hundred different ways. You could do two day sets, you could do three day sets, you could do long three days, you could do. Some people do five core skills. But the requirement was 48 hours. Well, that's changed now. The minimum requirement is now 24 hours for sort of that basic core skills. There are very few people offering this. So just, just telling you the situation. I think, I think they're doing it some in Toronto. Toronto maybe a few other places. And so the, the idea with the 24 hours was trying to make certification more approachable, more mobile, make it to where it can be offered online, different platforms, possibly pesi, other places. But the 24 hour course skills is heavily reliant on supervision after the fact. So if you know for sure that I'm going to stay in regular supervision for four or five years, then the 24 hour course skills might make sense. Otherwise, honestly, I think you should go to a alonger the 48 hour track, which is the traditional way EFT has been taught. But either way it still goes out to supervision where you're learning the model, working on certification as you choose. We're producing two tapes, a stage one and a stage two. And then when the supervisor approves you take one of those tapes to the trainer. Trainer gives you written feedback. At that point the supervisor decides has certification level been hit? And then that event and event that would be sent to to iseft and someone would be certified.

C (18:57)

Awesome. Well, let's go ahead and take on that note. We're going to take a quick break. Do you like the content that you're hearing on this podcast? Well, we invite you to join us on success and vulnerability.com along with George Fowler and other EFT therapists and supervisors where you get to get more thorough insight into these concepts and and actually get to see it done. Once again, join us on success and vulnerability.com and as we are talking about certification, we also want to talk about the International center for Excellence and emotionally focused therapy. ISEF.com I C E F T.com we just want to encourage you go by, check it out. Um, you'll see a list of different resources and articles, online videos and training programs, and a list of all the trainings around the world. And if you decide to become a member of isef, you can get a discount on those things. You also get to sign up for talk to topic box and the listserv to communicate with EFT therapists from around the world. Once again, that is ISEF.com all right, Ryan, so you want to finish up talking some more about the couples part?

A (20:11)

Yeah, I just want to kind of be in a relayer here of, of how this developed. You know, what we, what sue and Gail and others discussed was that EFT really works. It's really like learning a new language. It takes layers and layers and layers of training exposure. Immersion. Right? And then you got to stop, take a break and come back and take a break and come back. And that's really how you learn eft. And so it's kind of this lifelong learning concept a little bit different than take a course, take a test, you're certified. And so that's really the spirit of what they're trying to do with certification. And so it's important that we recognize that supervision isn't all about certification. Like I probably made it sound earlier, it really, there's mentorship, there's guidance. I do probably half my certification with people who are already. Sorry. I do probably half my supervision with people who are already supervisors themselves. And so that's. To me, that's credit to them that they're saying, hey, I want to meet four or five times a year. I still want to have someone watching my work. And there's always stuff to talk about. So these are very advanced people. When I watch my work, it's. There's always stuff to talk about, ways we can improve. You know, couples are hard and there's no mastering of this. And so continuing to have this lifelong continuing education, that becomes a cliche that we put on those forms, but it really is important.

C (21:34)

That's good, Ryan. Thanks for coming back to that. And so once you've done that and the super and the supervisors approved the. The trainers gave their feedback, you're certified. Congratulations. That's couples therapy certification.

A (21:47)

Way to go. Yeah.

C (21:49)

With individuals still pretty much the same. You're going to do your. You'll have your supervisor and they are going to still be looking for that. Are they going to be still looking for the stage one, Stage two?

A (21:58)

They are.

C (21:58)

Okay.

A (21:59)

They don't always call it that. They call it patterns and positions, but kind of the same thing. You know, at stage one, we're looking at cycles and how the cycle plays out within the individual and within the individual system that's not in the room. And then we're looking at those positions. So, you know, deeper work with a withdraw, avoiding attachment style, working through shame. So deeper corrective experiences, especially focused on those big encounters. And stage stage two, deeper work and.

C (22:27)

Efit and same thing. You send the video into iseft and hightail and trainer feedback and you're certified.

A (22:34)

You're certified. Yep. I've not actually done that one. So we're talking about something other people are doing at this point. I know by the time you hear this, I might be doing it. I don't know.

C (22:42)

Go ahead.

A (22:43)

Point I hadn't. We'll see. Yeah.

C (22:44)

You want to be a triple crown and get your family one, too.

A (22:47)

Crowns are heavy.

C (22:50)

So. Yeah, but it's the same process also with family. Yeah, those two videos it is.

A (22:55)

And I'll say, man, the family trainings are excellent. Our family team, you know, Gail, Jim, Lisa, Palmer, George, of course, sue, and then several others are involved. I've done a couple. A couple meaning two or three. I guess I've done about six, actually, but. But it's really strong. It's really strong. You know that the essentials, training and the mastering skills and consultation, as we're sorting through what is stage one with families? What is stage two with families? It's similar but it's different. And there's a lot of really cool, beautiful things that happen when you get, you know, parent child diet or whole family in there. And even how we process enactments is different. So if you've never done E F T, I highly recommend it.

C (23:36)

That's cool. So that's all the models and kind of like the journey through each one. And what are they looking for though, as far as in each one of these kind of like tapes? Right. They're looking at things. There's three main categories. They're looking at alliance skills, your micro skills, like the micro interventions and then base in the. And then obviously the macro intervention skills of the tango, different of the tango moves. So when it comes to alliance, what is your ability to get in and to be able to attune and work with a live present moment emotional experience? Yeah, it is emotionally focused.

A (24:13)

Right.

C (24:13)

So do they see you working with emotion in a focused way?

A (24:17)

Right.

C (24:18)

Micro skills working in those micro interventions, reflections, validations, conjectures, things of that nature and being able to work with some emotional reactivity?

A (24:29)

Yeah. So we're looking on the website here there's really 20 bullet points. There's four under alliance skills. There's about, what is that? Eight or nine under micro skills or interventions. And then there's the tango skills which arranges into five. And so you know what they're really looking for, what supervisors are looking for? I shouldn't say they anymore. What supervisors are looking for is can you, can you model eft? You know, we align differently. We're not life coaches. We don't do top down. We don't, we're not, we're not over using psychedel. I think that's the main one that people have to graduate from. Because when you first start off, if you don't have a plan, the cycle will make a plan for you. And what'll happen is you'll just pull away from your client and teach information. And that's easy to do. I've done it myself. So if it happens to you, happens to me too. Take a deep breath, catch yourself, start over. But part of becoming really effective at EFT is learning to stay with the process and trust it. So we want to see lots of alliance a way of being with people. I'm doing with you, not teaching to you. We're not educators about emotion. We're getting in the emotion sort of thing. So we're looking for that. We're looking for working with live emotion, efters use a lot more reflection and validation than other models, and they stay with the emotion. And of course, everything in an EFT is building towards an enactment. So the certification tapes are really looking for at least three of the tango moves. I didn't even know that until about a year ago. I had to get more clear on that. And it's, you know, there have been a lot of changes happening, but, you know, obviously we'd love to see a full tango, but it's not necessary. And in particular, I think it's great to. I think it's best to Show a tango 2, 3 and 4. So it's also good to work with the systems piece. I know my European colleagues push pretty hard on. You know, some people just go. They just go after emotion, and they really don't ever organize the cycle. And so that's a problem because you can have a corrective experience, but you have nowhere to put it back to. So that, that tango one and the early tango two are, are important. Assembling, affect, assembly and, and showing the cycle. And our summary statements are big. But for sure, we, to. To. To look like eft, we want to see you work with live emotion to deep and to set up an enactment and process it. But the, the letter of the law is three tango moves.

C (27:02)

I agree. And that's the same thing I would be looking for is like, do you get a hold to emotion? Is it clear what you're doing with it? And can you stay? Can you show me it into enactment? What I say is, can you put it into behavioral action? Can you take the emotional signal and enact, in a sense, attachment? Can you take someone and help them touch sadness, turn and share sadness with a caregiver and get response back? That's thinking in couples or family terms. But even can they do that with parts of self or imagine others in the e fit term?

A (27:34)

So, yeah, like, and I'm looking at this list here, you know, using that risk voice, you know, if that's not a part of your set of interventions, it's not really eft, you know, so how do we slow ourselves down? We don't just ask clients to go into emotion. We go in there together, you know, and we're with them in those places. And, and from that, you know, showing some timing that when we're ready to do that enactment, that encounter, that's when you like, okay, this is eft. I know when I watch a video, if you show me that I'm like, yeah, we're Good. Of course, there's always things to look at, but that's. You're in the ballpark when you're doing that.

C (28:10)

Yeah. And I tell you, it's been a. It really. I do mean this. It's been a joy to get to watch the certification tapes. So definitely, I think, you know, we would say thank you. One for you all. Like, you don't have to try and do certification, but for the people that do it, I really have a lot of respect that they're willing to commit themselves to a process of learning and getting better. And then they're opening themselves up vulnerably to let their supervisors watch their work. They're opening themselves up for trainers to watch their work and for them to get feedback. And the thing I kept hearing from people was the process was beneficial for them. From even just for them, there's partly because, you know, the supervisor and the trainer become like, attachment figures for them, helping them along the journey, but also in their. Just their own personal confidence. I stuck to a process. I really learned this. I got it down back. And for me, when I got my certification certificate, I was kind of shocked. I mean, I had my PhD already, but I really cherished that because in PhD and I pre. You know, that was like writing papers and answering questions. This was about me, someone actually watching the product of my work with real people and giving me good feedback. I'm like, I really proved I'm a good therapist here and not just a good therapy student in a way. So that meant a lot to me.

A (29:27)

Yeah. Yeah. And that's. So it has that initiation kind of feel. Right. And of course, once you certify, there's still always a lot more to learn, but you can have a sense of, all right, I can do this. I've shown that I can do this one time. And I won't lie to you. If I'm sending someone I care about to somewhere and, you know, North Dakota, and I don't know anybody in North Dakota, I'd love to go there, but I never have. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm going to ICEF's website.

C (29:54)

Yeah.

A (29:55)

And I'm going to find someone who's at least had some training. And if they have the C by their name, which means they've certified, that means somewhat somewhere, someone has seen them do something that looks like EFT at least one time. And that's one time more than zero. And so. So certification matters in terms of how the community sees you, particularly the thousands of people around the world that don't know any different. Either way, certification tells them, hey, I've taken this seriously enough to be conscientious and sort through this.

C (30:27)

I agree. Right?

A (30:28)

Yeah.

C (30:28)

If friends or family from around the world ask me about EFT therapists and different and literally I've gotten in different countries, that's the first thing I do, is I go to that ISF website.

A (30:37)

Yeah. Yep. And the last thing for me, you know, we talk about empowering supervisors and there's a few supervisors and you might be listening to this and it's okay if this applies to you. There's a few supervisors, though, they're like, I mean, that empowers me a little too much. Like, I don't know if I'm ready for this. And so that's normal, you know? But I have. I and several other trainers have been involved in trying to help a few supervisors who are just a little nervous about the process. So occasionally they're like, hey, can I just give you a call and ask you a question about supervision? Or I've had some. Who would book my supervision to meta supervisor supervision of supervision, specifically for the. For the certification process. That's an option. You know, you don't have to be out there on an island by yourself. And once you do four or five, you kind of get it at that point. So reach out and get support, like, always stay connected.

C (31:27)

And I know usually I don't do the best job with our show notes, but our show notes will be valuable to you this time. Ryan and I will put a link to the ISEF website that we've been reading off of and kind of getting some information off of during this podcast. Also, I'll put a link to Lisa Palmer Olson, Marlene Best, Jim Furrow. They run a group called the Supervisors Collaborative. And it's just a. I think it's like a monthly meeting with supervisors and people who want to be supervisors in EFT get together to talk about different topics, but to support each other. And I know the certification process comes up a good bit there amongst those supervisors. Also, we want to put a resource from Success and Vulnerability that our own Dr. Chad Imhoff. He did a SV Live discussion with, I think, a couple hundred efters from around the world. The title of it was let's Get Certified. He does some talking through some of the certification stuff for two hours. For two hours.

A (32:22)

Really gets into the nuances here.

C (32:23)

Yeah. So we'll put a link to that free resource.

A (32:26)

So giving that away for free.

C (32:27)

Yeah, it's already. It's already on success and vulnerability for free. So we're.

A (32:30)

There you go.

C (32:30)

Give it to the Leading Edge list.

A (32:31)

Check it out.

C (32:32)

So that'll be three resources you can find in our spot. But as always, for Ryan and I, thank you for what you do. Thank you for your commitment to excellence. Not just you as therapists, but also to the supervisors in eft. I know you make a lot of things happen. And so for Ryan and I, we're grateful. We're grateful when we get to go meet you, when we train and have lunch with you and hang out and talk life and eft. Thank you for what you do for isef. We really appreciate you.

A (32:59)

You're seen and appreciated.

C (33:00)

Yeah.

B (33:03)

Thank you for listening. We hope this experience helps you push the leading edge in your work to help people connect with themselves and with each other. Please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star review. You can contact us at pushtheleadingedgemail.com and you can follow us on our Facebook page at Push the Leading Edge. You can follow Ryan on Facebook at Ryan Rayner Professional Training and on his website ryanrainatraining. Com. You can follow James on Facebook and Instagram at Doc Hawklpc. You can also check out his website dochawklpc.com.