In this episode, Kevin Black joins David to explore why leadership so often feels chaotic and why most leadership development fails to prepare leaders for that reality.

Together, they examine the gap between how leadership is taught and how it’s experienced, unpacking how leaders respond to pressure, uncertainty, and loss of control and why those responses can either escalate or stabilise chaos. Kevin shares insights from his research into leadership under pressure, introducing a more grounded way of understanding what effective leadership looks like when conditions are volatile and ambiguous.

The conversation also focuses on the role of Learning & Development. Kevin explains where traditional leadership programmes fall short, what L&D can do differently to prepare leaders for real-world complexity and how embracing chaos as a design constraint - not a flaw - can lead to more credible and impactful leadership development. If you’re responsible for developing leaders and questioning whether current approaches are enough, this episode is for you.

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It's all distilled into one framework to help you level up L&D. Access the L&D Maturity Model here - https://360learning.com/maturity-model

KEY TAKEAWAYS

If L&D keeps treating leadership as generic empathy and communication training, it leaves leaders under-skilled in critical thinking, planning, strategy execution, and behavioural adaptability – unprepared for the chaos they face.
Reconnect leadership to context, critical thinking, planning and behavioural adaptability, so leaders can recognise the patterns of chaos and work with it rather than be overwhelmed by it.

BEST MOMENTS

“Chaos is experienced at the individual level, but it's measured at the team level.”

“If leadership education is all people-oriented, and you're not learning how to critically think, plan, link your communication, then you are inviting people to go into behavioural overdrive.”

“You should have a direct line to the C suite... Don't be the handmaid of HR and just doing services.”

Kevin Black Bio

Kevin Black is globally recognised as a leadership strategist and researcher, specialising in how leaders perform under pressure and uncertainty. Drawing on six years of frontline experience in the U.S. Army, he helps organisations develop leaders who make better decisions, build resilient teams, and deliver results when traditional leadership models fall short. Kevin is also the author of Strength in Chaos (2025), which equips leaders with a practical framework for navigating complexity and driving performance in high-stakes environments.

You can follow and connect with Kevin via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinblack1999/

Book: https://kevinblack.co/strength-in-chaos/

Website: https://kevinblack.co/

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin
L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective
Blog: https://360learning.com/blog
L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home

This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/