← The Lifestyle Practice Podcast For Dentists
The Lifestyle Practice Podcast For Dentists
314. The Practice Everyone Else Ignored Changed His Life
00:30:13
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, there. Welcome to the Lifestyle Practice, the podcast where dentistry meets real life. We talk about growing and scaling your dental practice, avoiding everyday mistakes, fixing common challenges, and building success without burning out. If you want to grow in dentistry while protecting your lifestyle, you're in the right place. Grow smarter, practice better, live more.
- [00:24]
B
So after a few months of working at that job in Boise, the owner dentist actually told us that he was not going to be working clinically anymore. He was working about 15 hours a week, and he was about to replace himself with a new guy who was going to work 35 hours a week. And we for sure did not have the patience to do that. I was trying to talk to the manager about it, but that's what they already decided. I had my Fridays to myself, which was a great production day. I saw all five hygiene patients every hour. So I just got a ton of patience from that, and I was gonna have to split that with him. And that's when I was like, man, I need to get back to looking. I took a break. I need to get back to looking because I just know that's my production. And this just. I don't want to be here past this year. So started looking again. I was looking in the area in Idaho, and that's when I had actually reached out to you, I think, for the first time. There was a practice about an hour away that was in a small town that didn't seem like it was. It wasn't like the best practice, but it was potentially an office that I could see myself wanting. So I looked in the numbers, went and looked at the practice, and I sent you some details about it. And I was trying to convince myself that it was worth buying, but, you know, I just needed someone to tell me it really wasn't. And I. I don't think you said those words, but I. I think you said it was going to take a lot of work to get it where I wanted it, and I wasn't going to make really any more money at that office than I was at my current job. And to me, that just didn't sound like it was worth it. There was a lot of practice in voice it for sale. I looked at all of them, and the overhead, the rent, the loans I was going to have to take out just honestly made me sick to my stomach. On top of that, I was going to have to spend so much marketing because there's a dentist on every corner. I get ads, you know, in the mail every day, come to our office, and that just really wasn't me. That's not something I wanted to take on. We kind of broadened our search again. We started looking to places that were drivable to Boise, Oregon, Washington. And we started look at Northern California too. And that's where we decided to kind of go and look a little closer. There was a bunch of offices for sale there and the cost of living was actually cheaper than in Boise to buy house and stuff. And a lot of these offices, they were a great price. We took a kind of a whirlwind weekend there, looked at six offices there and there was two that were just rock solid offices that I would have bought in a heartbeat. They're awesome offices. They were, had huge potential to grow and they were already doing really well. Good. Um, and the price was right for what the owners were wanting for it. Um, so I would have moved there but my wife told me no after the, after that visit. Um, which honestly it was probably better we didn't end up in California, but. But that was just kind of put all our eggs again into that basket. We took a trip out there, spent all that money and just none of them. It just felt right and getting a little discouraged then at that point. So after looking through the summer, we just didn't feel like there was the type of office we wanted and the type of home situation we wanted within driving distance of Idaho. So we decided to expand our search again. So in the summer is about when I connected with the owner of my current office. So I had posted on a Facebook page of just Dennis trying to sell offices. And she had commented on a couple of my posts and I had kind of emailed back and forth with her a little bit, but it just seemed like it wasn't that great. Honestly. It was three ops in a little tiny town and close to the airport. I was still going to have to travel, you know, 10 hours to get back to Idaho. I'm just like, that's just not, it's just not worth it. So I brushed it off, looked at a bunch of others and for some reason I came back to it probably the end of summer and I was like, what about that one office in the middle of nowhere in Missouri? Like let's, let's take a look about again. So I reached out to her again. She was still trying to sell. It's been a year and a half since she's trying to sell this office. I had a couple of phone calls with her and I was like, you know, actually maybe, maybe there's some good potential here. Let's, let's Just look at it and see what's going on. Got the numbers, talked with her a few times, and I was like, dang, like, she's doing actually really well for being three ops. And she'd actually only been part time in this office for the last year and a half. So she had bought another office in the middle of early of 2024 and kind of left this office to her staff and had a temp dentist in it a couple times a month and just kind of let it go. So I was like, man, maybe. Maybe this could be it. So we decided to take a trip out here. My wife and I came out here and we went to school in Nebraska. We'd driven through kind of this area before. We'd visited St. Louis, Kansas City a few times. We really liked the Midwest. We. We liked the people, we liked the culture, we liked the weather. And so we took a trip out here. We honestly kind of fell in love with it. We really liked the town. It was awesome. People were super friendly. The owner let me meet the staff, and that's what kind of solidified it for me. They were just rock star staff. Like, there's no way that this office would have been open for that year and a half if it weren't for the staff. They were honestly running it. They were keeping it afloat while. While she kind of half ignored it all that time. And my wife liked the area. Homes were affordable. We could have land here like we wanted to have. And so it kind of checked all our boxes. The only box it didn't check was living by family. And so it was super, super hard decision to make because we were 20 minutes from both of our parents, from my siblings, from my kids, cousins. So it was honestly a really hard and big decision to make. But, you know, ultimately we felt really, really strong that this was finally the right office. Put an offer in, and we just went forward with it. She accepted her offer, which was a lot less than she was asking, but. And here we are now. So it's kind of a crazy journey to get here. We miss her family, but I love it here. It's awesome. It's been great.
- [06:37]
C
Awesome. Unpacking a couple kind of pearls for people who want to do what Tim has done. First, you were sending out letters, you know, your second year in dental school, right? So you were on the fast track. You knew you wanted ownership. You didn't say, I'm gonna do this after I graduate. Three years after graduate, at the beginning of dental school, you're already searching for practice. So I would tell people listening to this, get on the fast track. You can't. It's impossible to start too early. Another cool thing, your associateship. I mean we, we talk about ownership here, but you know, right outta school, you said you were in a, even a Medicaid, but just a slammed, busy practice where you're just doing tons of procedures. I think that's a great, a great first step after dental school is to get yourself really busy so you can get reps, you can be confident clinically if you're sitting on your hands, that's not gonna happen. And then the third one, and I think this what really hit home as you were saying it is, it is not a straight line from dental school or associateship ownership. You were literally all over the map of America, highs and lows. You had practices you love that didn't work out. You had some, you know, you thought were great that didn't turn out to be great. And so it took a while. Right. And I think I, I could really feel when you're, you're trying to decide where to live that that's such a huge decision. But I think over time you and your wife came to peace about it. For people trying to decide where they want to practice, I think Tim's example is great. Visit a lot of places, cast a wide net, don't be afraid of disappointments because they're, they're going to happen. Things fall through and then really rely on if you're married, your spouse to decide where, where's best. And next part of the story is you actually found a solid practice. Let's talk about, let's talk about it. I'm not going to ask you to share specific numbers, but just to tell people as, as, as Tim shares some of his acquisition, you have in the first two and a half months so far done as much income as your entire past year as an associate. Is that right?
- [08:36]
B
Yeah. That was a kind of a crazy week. When I texted you that I was, when I realized that that was about to happen, I was honestly like just felt the adrenaline rush. I was like, dang. Like, this is, I felt like after a couple months, I finally felt like, yeah, I'm at peace. This is perfect. And you know what's crazy about that? I was just, I was looking actually as of this week, I'm double what I did last year.
- [08:59]
C
Wow. Devil. Okay, so just a month has passed. So I mean, how, how much more of this can you go?
- [09:06]
B
That's, yeah.
- [09:07]
C
Awesome. So yeah, let's talk about it. You this is a practice. You accepted your offer. Let's talk about the, maybe the first week of your acquisition. What, what was it like? You met Saf or previously? What happened when you became the owner here?
- [09:21]
B
Yeah, my, my first day was honestly kind of a blur. I was pretty stressed. Just I told the staff, I had texted him actually a bunch while I was driving over here, that I was like, hey, let's just, you know, we're going to work for the week and then we're going to kind of have some meetings and we're going to kind of chat. Let's just do the first week. Let's figure out each other. You can figure out what I like to do. And so that first kind of week was just me getting comfortable with equipment, working with my staff, with the office. And it was kind of, kind of a blur, Just, just doing dentistry and not really trying to, to anything really in the office. I was like, I just need to get comfortable here. That second week I met with all the staff individually, just kind of checking in on them, seeing what their expectations were and just, you know, just kind of get, getting to know them really about. And they were honestly just super happy to have me there because there wasn't a steady dentist for almost two years in this office. Attempts have come through, good ones, bad ones, and then the owner would be here sometimes trying to manage his office from 30 miles away. And you know, that's just, that's just hard on anyone. So they had actually all told me that they were. If I didn't actually go through it, they're all quitting at the end of last year. So. Wow, glad they didn't for sure.
- [10:41]
C
Let me ask you a question on this. So I mean, lots of people would look at this situation and say, whoa, there's a bunch of red flags here.
- [10:49]
B
Yeah.
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C
But you saw opportunity in it. What, what were the pros that kind of made this, this worth it, that, that kind of staff risk and you know.
- [10:58]
B
Yeah. So I mean, the last two years, even though she was there, kind of part time temp dentist there, they were still collecting over 800,000 a year. And to me that was a solid number for someone who's not really even there all the time. So that was like the angle I was like, I knew I could, I could easily do that. I could come in and work half the days and I could do 800,000. So I knew I could grow it from day one. So yeah, there were red flags, but I feel like the opportunity here was way above those few red flags. And I just kind of felt like I could, I don't know, bet on myself that I knew I could go in and that hopefully the staff would like me and kind of buy into the new culture that I wanted. And the mentality of this was going to be a functional office for people in this community. And I just. I don't know, just felt like I could go in and kind of take the gold mine that it was and figure out exactly what we needed to do to. To find those that production I wanted. So.
- [11:57]
C
Yeah, so it's. It's interesting. Lots of. Lots of people looking at practices. They'll just, you know, go through prospectuses and maybe look at numbers and compare them. Like you would like cars or something. Yeah, but no, you really. There's a story behind all the numbers. Right. So you looked at this practice and, I mean, it had solid numbers, but you found out what's going on behind the scenes, what they did to get that number. And then you plugged yourself in and said, what would it be like if I was there? And you saw a ton of potential in it? And you. You were right. So understand the practice beyond superficial numbers, I think, is the good lesson there. So the staff were excited to see you, which is often. Sometimes staff are really sad to see a seller go and a new dentist come in. So you already have that going for you. What would you say was kind of your first speed bump or difficulty being the. The new boss?
- [12:50]
B
Yeah, you know, I'm coming in just super excited. Like, I knew all these things that needed to get changed to turn this into, like, the ideal practice. And I was trying to be slow, you know, changing a few things about the schedule. So, you know, one of the big things about the staff is because there wasn't the owner here, they were a little lax on a lot of things. They would kind of come and go when they wanted. Didn't really ever clock in and out. Definitely not for lunch. Sometimes they would call patients and move them up their hole so they could all leave early. There's definitely a lot of things not getting done, so that wasn't going to really fly with me. And they kind of knew that. But after I was like, you're clocking in and out for lunch? Like, these are basic things that I've always done as an employee that you're going to do anywhere as an employee. It wasn't. I didn't feel like it was more to ask than I should have, but after about a month, I think the, like, honeymoon kind of wore off and I was talking to one of them after work, and she just started crying. I was like, oh, man, what have I done, Mike? And she's like, I just don't know if I'm going to be here for much longer. And I was just super stressed. I'm like, I can't lose you. Like, I didn't know what I was going to do, so I decided to kind of pump the brakes a little bit. This was all new for them, too. Like, as excited as they were, I was changing their daily habits of being in the office. They weren't. Weren't used to working as hard as I was going to push them to work, and I think that was difficult for them. And three of them cry within the next couple of weeks. So I. I kind of took a step back and tried to listen to them. That was what I felt like I just need to do. Let's just need to hear them out. And in the end, they just. I think they were just a little overwhelmed with everything. And I feel like we're in a really great place now. So I feel like it took those few months of kind of difficult changes. I. Maybe it did a little early, and they're all still here. We all want to be here, and we're all on really great terms now. And so we had a few rough patches, but right now we're just. We're killing it right now.
- [14:55]
C
So I think you handled that so well. And so, I mean, the first week to two, you basically let them know beforehand. Look, we're just going to work through this week and next, get to know each other, kind of get to know the office. That's, I would say, for people doing acquisition, that's perfect. Then, you know, over the next six to eight weeks, you start to implement little basic changes that are, for people with habits, a big deal. And I. I think your approach was just perfect. You, I mean, I remember we talked about this. They're like, they're used to not clocking out for lunch. They're used to this. Like, if I. If I change this, will they leave? You're in a rural area, so you're. You have a lot of opportunity. But the downside is it's hard to find staff. Especially, like, I remember we were kind of balancing. How are we going to, you know, set a standard and hold it to them without being, you know, too forceful or abrupt? And I think you kind of really walk that high wire very well. I'll say. So. Tim's great communicator. You'll notice he didn't blame his staff. He called them rock stars from the beginning. So he's looking for the best in them. And I'll also say you pay them very well. It would have been easy to come in with a staff with large benefits, cut things back, try to save a dime. I'm a new owner. I don't have any money. But you knew from the get go you were going to invest very well in your team. Would you say that was. That's an accurate.
- [16:16]
B
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. My. I mean, the team is honestly the only way I can do what we do here. Without them, it's not possible. And so I want to take super good care of them. And one of the things we had talked about was salary versus hourly. So three of the staff were on salary. Just the owner said it was easier. They didn't clock in or out, so it's probably better for them. And I was like, hey, we're switching all to hourly. And that was one of the big things that two of them just didn't like. And so in the end, we're still on salary with the three, and we came to agreement, and it's worked out fine. Honestly, for me, they would probably get paid a little more honestly if we did hourly, but they're happy with it. They like to save paychecks every week. So one of the big things I wanted to do with my staff was do some kind of bonus system. I feel like it really motivates staff to have just something in place. So after the first month, you and I kind of talked about different options. So we do a monthly bonus now. And they've gotten, you know, last month they got 500 each monthly, four was 700 each. On top of that, I've gotten them all new shoes. They all wanted these fancy, you know, shoes. I've got new shoes. This coming Monday. We're all getting massages together. Every time I'm at Sam's club, I send them a text. I'm like, hey, what do we need? And they send me a snack list. We got a whole bunch of snacks and drinks. So just trying to make them comfortable and happy working here. I don't want them to feel like I'm spoiling them. But, you know, they're great people. They're my friends now, and I just want to take really great care of them and show how much that I appreciate their hard work every day.
- [17:50]
C
Yeah, great. Listen. Listen to this. This is really. This is really important. Tim's doing it the right way. And, you know, I think you were Very intentional. Intentional about all these steps and decisions. You were thoughtful, you know, on a salary, but just hourly. What would be a good bonus? Always with an abundant mindset. Not trying to, you know, save a dime, but understanding that they're responsible for the big production you've immediately had. And, you know, I think, Tim, that's one thing you've done really well, is you're good at making decisions. And there were a couple other ones I thought might be help to talk about insurance. So what was insurance like when you came on? What were your options and what did you decide to do?
- [18:29]
B
Yeah, that was a big part of the. The practice here. So the previous owner was in network with a couple of insurances, including Delta, which was kind of about 40% of the practice, and then a couple others that really were just a really small percent, and then the rest was out of network or fee for service. Um, I came in just. I feel like there was enough patience in the practice. There's enough people in the town and the county who needed to come here. So from day one, I was like, I'm not even gonna deal with all getting in network with all these insurances. So I'm only in network with Delta. Just from day one. I'm like, that's what we're doing. It's a big part of the practice. I kind of needed to do that. The rest is just out of network or fee for service. So I was on Delta PPO from day one. After about six weeks, that was honestly fine. Those patients that were on insurance, they had to pay a little bit more. We've lost a couple of patients from it, but honestly, not a big deal to me at all. I decided after six weeks I wasn't going to take any other insurances. And so I was able to get on Delta Premier, which bumped up all my Delta fees by 20%. So that was huge. 20% increase just by deciding to do that. So now I'm only in network with Delta. It's about 40% of the practice still. And the rest is. Gets. Pays my full fee out of network or a fee for service.
- [19:50]
C
So, yeah, that's great. And I think a lot of dentists might listen to this and maybe be a little envious or skeptical about if they would be able to do it. But I'll. I'll say, you know, you just a few minutes ago were talking about how it would be really hard to leave, you know, Boise, where you said it's a lot more saturated. You're getting multiple mailers every day. So this was a choice that you made to go to an area of opportunity. And I. So I. I think that's a credit to you. But there's also. You know, the hard side of it is you're making little sacrifices, and you just need to be intentional and deliberate about the pros and cons of each decision. So you've rocked the insurance situation. So you're able to do a lot of dentistry on just three days a week.
- [20:35]
B
So what's cool about that, actually, I haven't told you yet is. So the closest dentist to me is 14 miles away, and they're in another small town, and they actually just sent a letter out to all their patients that they're not accepting insurance at all anymore. Um, so I decided to jump on that. I've sent ads over there, and we've gotten probably at least a hundred new patients scheduled this year just from this. I'm like, yeah, we. We have delta. Come here. We'll take you. And so people are coming here is super helpful to us, honestly. We have people calling every day from there. Want to come here now. So. Got super lucky with that. We're happy about that.
- [21:13]
C
Well played. Send that dentist a plate of brownies. That's awesome. Yeah. So there's so much upside, but you immediately ran into another wall pretty quick, probably a lot faster than you expected. So if you guys are watching this instead of listening it, you'll. You'll see that Tim is in a really nice Taj Mahal practice.
- [21:33]
B
Hey.
- [21:34]
C
This is his. Or is this your personal office?
- [21:36]
B
Is that right? This is the closet office I got here? Yeah. It's also our break room. I got a microwave and a mini fridge.
- [21:43]
C
That's okay. So this is where the CDO makes all his decisions with his Thibault on the microwave. But you've run into a capacity problem already. Tell us about that and what the next thing is we're working on.
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B
Yeah, so, I mean, I knew going into it it was a small office. We have three chairs. All these ops are teeny tiny. My assistant has to stand up because there's not room for a chair, but she doesn't mind that. Super small and rent is dirt cheap. So originally I was like, you know, I'm going to be fine here for a long time. But honestly, we need. We need another chair. We have patients waiting all the time. We have patients who need to come see us, and we just have to turn them away. I decided to. I was like, let's just go look, see if there's any offices, any buildings in Town I can buy. So there was two. One used to be a dental office. I'm a community health clinic that was. That's been vacant for a while. Went and looked at that. It's set up like a dental office, but it's pretty old and needed a ton of work. The other was this old deli in town, right by the library, right by the schools. Super nice building. I was just going to have to build it out. So anyways, I'm closing on that building in a few weeks. I got funding from the bank to build out five chairs to build out half the building. It's 3,600 square feet. It's going to be an awesome spot. We're going to have a break room. We're going to have bigger sterilization. We have a nice reception area, nice front desk. But the most important is we're going to be able to see more patients. I'll be able to get another assistant and it's going to be. I think it's going to be awesome. We'll be able to grow even more and see way more patients. Be in a nicer place with kind of newer stuff. So it's going to be a great service to the town and community as well, I believe.
- [23:22]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Did you anticipate that you may need to do this within three or four months of active?
- [23:29]
B
Definitely not. I was like, maybe down the road, but it's kind of crazy. I'm like, I don't know. I told people and they're like, already. So I'm kind of. I'm excited, but I wish it was right now, honestly, that we were moving over there. It's probably going to be at least six months.
- [23:43]
C
Yeah. Yeah. You're already investing at the seams. Yeah. So another important principle here is make your investments early. Right. So, I mean, it'd be really easy to mentally say, I just moved in here. I just signed a lease at my current office after four months. No, that's what. That's what your capacity and your potential and your patience can provide you. So you're making the investment and putting in little extra work, getting an architecture hat on and making it happen. So.
- [24:10]
B
Perks of being in a small town. My landlord's the bank that's financing all of it, so they're going to let me on my lease. They're also giving us a mortgage or closing on a house, same day here in a couple weeks on a house. So. Super, super nice.
- [24:23]
C
Yeah, you probably. I mean, you've only been there three. Three months, but you're probably going to treat almost everyone in the town and get to know everybody.
- [24:30]
A
Right?
- [24:32]
C
That's awesome. That's awesome. So, I mean, it's kind of like a physical side. As a startup, you're building a practice, but you were wise enough to find and then move to a place that has huge tailwinds behind you right from the get go. How would you say, just emotionally has it been. How are you doing? You know, three and a half months in, Is ownership kind of what you expected? Is it different? How are you just kind of overall
- [24:56]
B
feeling this whole time? I've been looking for the last five years for a practice. I, I knew that practice ownership was going to be more work and more stress because that's what everyone told me I was. To be honest, I'm way less stressed now. Last year, just being at that job, sitting on my phone half the day, I would just, you know, see patients here and there while I was there all day long. Way less stressed now. I'm not worried about money as much. I love coming here, working with my staff. I like having my own place and being in charge. Yeah, I probably put a few more hours in for sure, but I actually like coming to work at the end of the day. I like sticking around, talking to my staff, asking what they're doing with their families. I like running the ports and see how well we did this week. My overall mental health, honestly, is a hundred times better than I was as an associate. And it's, it's not as bad as people say. Being an owner, maybe I got lucky, which I did with great staff and great support system. But I love it. It's great. It's just kind of what I've always wanted, so.
- [25:58]
C
That's so awesome. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of your decisions have made it a lot smoother than some transitions. But yeah, I remember you texting me. It was like a month or two ago. And you. It was in the morning you said, I am excited to drive to work each morning for the first time ever. It's like that really kind of illustrates how, how awesome ownership can be if done right. And then, you know, you've. You mentioned your family. This was like, between your wife and your kids, this was definitely a family adventure that you're kind of together. How. How do you feel they're doing? I mean, you don't need to be super personal, but.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah.
- [26:31]
C
How's your plan?
- [26:32]
B
Well, you know, my wife and I have been married for about 10 years. We lived away out of Idaho for about six of those. So we were kind of used to being away last year. It was really great to be by family. I'm super glad we did that. Nice to reconnect our kids, to kind of get to know their grandparents and stuff a little bit better. But we're doing really good. We just have a great community here. We have. We have friends already here. We love our neighbors. One of our best things is we have a few acres right now that we have animals. We have chickens and quails, which I promised our kids we would get, and they love those. They spend all day out just playing with them and watching them, and that's what we've. My wife and I had always kind of dreamed about owning a little bit of land, just coming to living a more simple life than the kind of keeping up with the Joneses that we felt like in Idaho. And so, yeah, we definitely miss our family, but we have enough now that we can go and visit kind of every few months. People want to come here and Visit us and FaceTime them, video chat with them all the time. So we still keep connected. We still love them and stuff. But for my personal family, for my wife and my kids, we love it here, and I'm excited for my kids to grow up here.
- [27:41]
C
It's awesome, man. That's so cool. Yeah, you're. A lot of what you're saying kind of parallels my experience, you know, from five or six years ago now had the same. Same dilemma. Do we want to chase, you know, the best opportunity for a nuclear family, or do we want, like, support from, you know, the rest of the family? And we found kind of the same thing. We. We went off on our own, and we really kind of bonded and grew closer together that I don't know if we would have in the same way if we weren't kind of out by ourselves. But the. The opportunity there just opened so many doors. So you can travel back and visit family, fly family out, and then I think you'll find in several years, you're going to have all sorts of options, too. So, you know, and some dentists that might not be the. The best fit for them. But I think for people who are fearful of kind of going out and chasing the dream, it's totally worth it. Tim, is there anything I should have asked you that I didn't, or what would you say to someone like, you know, like you in North Carolina or Texas trying to find a practice and it's just not working out? What advice would you give them?
- [28:47]
B
Like you said, my journey has kind of not been linear. It's been all over the place. We've. We've moved so much. We've looked at a ton. We were kind of burnt out from looking, but just don't settle for any practice. Don't settle for any associateship. I got comfortable a few times and then kind of woke myself back up. I need to kind of look out. And I'm super glad I did because we may still be stuck at that Medicaid office, I don't know, because the one other dentist that was there with me still is. And that's not really what my dream was. We were comfortable, but now we're kind of living what we had planned for years to do. And so just don't give up, but also just don't settle.
- [29:27]
C
Solid, solid advice. Love it. Well, great. Thanks for sharing your journey so far, Tim. We still got, you know, another seven, eight months. I'm excited to see. I mean, if you've had this much growth this fast, what you're going to be able to do. But everybody, if you'd like, we're going to post probably this on our Facebook page. If you want to reach out to Tim, you can respond there or I'm sure if you want to just ask me for contact info, we can connect anyone that wants to learn more about Tim's experience.
- [29:55]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:56]
C
Yeah. Thanks again for joining, everybody. Hopefully this motivates you. I know it's a drive for me to hear stories like this that you can get out and, and build what you want and kind of have what you want if you're willing to put the work in. So feel free to reach out to us. Visit us at our website, thelifestylepractice.com and we will connect soon. Thanks, Tim.
- [30:13]
B
Thanks, Steve.