EP03 | Follow The Money

Summary

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The Lindbergh Conspiracies

Podcast: The Lindbergh Conspiracies
Host: The Free Press (Joe Nocera)
Episode: EP03 | Follow The Money
Date: June 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In "Follow the Money," Joe Nocera and guests scrutinize the investigation into the 1932 Lindbergh baby kidnapping, focusing on the crucial role of the ransom money. The episode explores the controversial chain of evidence that led to the arrest and conviction of Bruno Richard Hauptmann, dissecting police tactics, circumstantial evidence, possible alternative suspects, and modern arguments for reopening the case. Listeners are prompted to consider whether the case was a simple, open-and-shut matter—or the product of prejudice, tunnel vision, and systemic errors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ransom Money and the Gold Certificate Trap

• Lindbergh’s Directive and Pushback:
  Lindbergh instructed the bank not to record bill serial numbers for ransom money, hoping to persuade the kidnappers to return his son safely. Elmer Irey of the U.S. Treasury intervened, insisting the bills be traceable or else the Treasury would “abandon the case” ([00:30–02:20]).

  • Quote:
    "He instructed the bank... to make sure they kept no record of the serial numbers... so the money couldn't be traced... those who now take a darker view of Lindbergh's actions [see this as] another data point suggesting his involvement in the crime."
    —Joe Nocera [00:30]

• The Gold Certificate Gambit:
  Irey arranged for a significant portion of the ransom to be paid in soon-to-be-recalled gold certificates, knowing the cash would soon become distinctively traceable ([02:38–03:39]).

• Police Procedures:
  All serial numbers (about 5,100) were recorded and distributed to banks, but given the era’s lack of technology, law enforcement doubted they'd catch the perpetrator just by watching for bills ([03:00–03:55]).

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2. How the Money Led to Hauptmann

• Discovery at a Filling Station:
  Two years after the crime, a well-dressed man in a brown Dodge sedan paid with a $10 gold certificate. The suspicious attendant wrote the license plate number on the bill. Police traced the plate to Hauptmann:

  • Quote:
    "The attendant didn’t suspect the man of being the Lindbergh kidnapper... So, he wrote the license plate on the back of the bill just in case.... And discovered the car belonged to, you guessed it, Bruno, Richard Hauptman, a German carpenter."
    —Joe Nocera [04:38–05:21]

• Narrowing Focus:
  After Hauptmann's arrest, police stopped pursuing other leads, focusing entirely on him.

  • Quote:
    "They arrested Hauptmann even though they had other leads for other people at the time. They just dropped all the other leads and didn't want to pursue anything."
    —Jim Davidson [05:21]

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3. Hauptmann: Life, Evidence, and Prejudice

• Background & Prejudice:
  Hauptmann’s criminal past in Germany and immigrant status made him a target.

  • Quote:
    "German illegal alien. Anybody heard about illegal aliens lately?"
    —Renell Delmont [07:57]

  His broken English further hindered his defense during trial, and past crimes in Germany were used to paint him as dangerous ([08:03–08:24]).

• Physical Evidence and Contradictions:
  $14,000 in gold certificates were found in his home; he claimed another German, Isidor Fisch (who died in Germany), gave them to him—a claim with some corroborating evidence ([09:05–09:35]).

• Contested Evidence and Possible Police Misconduct:

  • Hauptmann was allegedly beaten and sleep-deprived in custody ([10:12]).
  • Alibis were suppressed through intimidation—people testifying for Hauptmann risked being charged as accessories ([11:34–12:13]).
  • “Smoking gun” physical evidence: wood from the ladder used in the kidnapping matched wood in Hauptmann’s attic, and Condon's telephone number was found inside Hauptmann’s closet ([12:13]).

• Lingering Doubts:
  Author Mariah Fredericks highlights the incomplete crime scene investigation and class disparity between Lindbergh (the victim’s father) and Hauptmann (the accused) ([13:03]).

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4. Was Hauptmann Actually Present?

• Hauptmann as Extortionist, Not Kidnapper?

  • Some argue Hauptmann may have been involved in extortion, not in the actual kidnapping or murder.
    • Quote:
      "There’s plenty to point to Bruno being an extortionist, but not a kidnapper."
      —Greg Algren [14:21]
  • The key challenge: linking Hauptmann with the Hopewell, NJ crime scene—a step some believe was never solidly proven ([14:40]).

• Systemic Bias:

  • Renell Delmont and Jerry Cross argue that anti-German prejudice played a significant role and see Hauptmann as a scapegoat for public anger and anxiety in pre-WWII America ([16:03], [17:24]).
    • Quote:
      "If he was guilty, that wouldn't have been a bad idea. But he said, no, I will never do that. He turned down the money. An innocent man would do that, but a guilty man would not do that."
      —Jerry Cross [18:10]

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5. Handwriting Analysis and the Problem of Proof

• Disputed Ransom Notes:

  • Handwriting experts at the time attributed all ransom notes to Hauptmann, but host and co-host express doubt upon seeing originals in a museum ([20:37–21:13]).
    • Quote:
      "You don’t have to be a handwriting expert, but they are written by different people... It doesn’t all match."
      —Poppy [21:04]

• DNA Testing Stonewalled:

  • Modern DNA could settle the question, yet the New Jersey State Police Museum refuses to allow testing of the stamps and envelopes from the ransom letters.

    • Quote:
      "Whenever [they] have been asked to do DNA testing... it is always said no. They acted like we wanted them to divulge the nuclear code."
      —Joe Nocera [21:13]

  • Attorney Kurt Perlak has filed lawsuits for access; officials deflect, arguing the case is too old to merit further inquiry ([22:23–22:55]).

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6. The Case Against Hauptmann – and Lingering Questions

• Police Narrative:

  • The state's basic theory: Hauptmann, a German carpenter from the Bronx, found his way to Lindbergh’s Hopewell estate, used a self-constructed ladder, and (accidentally or otherwise) killed the child ([23:18–24:50]).

  • The episode raises skepticism, especially around why Hauptmann—if only an extortionist—wouldn’t have confessed to save his own life ([24:50]).

  • Jury and public pressure assured a guilty verdict, regardless of ambiguity:

    • Quote:
      "There was no way he was gonna live."
      —Renell Delmont [25:22]
    • Quote:
      "The whole country wanted to see the guy die."
      —Joe Nocera [25:26]

• Trial of the Century:

  • The episode ends by setting up the next installment, focusing on whether Hauptmann had a fair trial ([25:30–26:18]).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Start of investigation into ransom money: [00:30]
• Gold certificates strategy explained: [02:38]
• Discovery of the incriminating gold certificate: [04:38]
• Police shift focus totally to Hauptmann: [05:21]
• Discussion of Hauptmann's German background and bias: [07:57]
• Discovery of money & Isidor Fisch explanation: [09:05–09:35]
• Police misconduct and witness intimidation: [10:12], [11:34]
• Breakdown of physical evidence linking Hauptmann: [12:13]
• Modern doubts, DNA testing roadblocks: [21:04–22:55]
• Narration of state's case/theory: [23:18–24:50]
• Jury bias and public sentiment: [25:22–25:30]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lindbergh's suspicious instruction:
  "He wanted to make it easy for the kidnappers because, you know, he was in on it."
  —Joe Nocera [00:30]

• The “fish story” of the ransom money:
  "He had a story about another immigrant having given him the money to keep... I believe that story could be correct."
  —Greg Algren [09:24]

• On the complexity of guilt and innocence:
  "It's not black or white. I'm not saying he was an extortionist. I mean, the fish story could be correct. But they really wanted to put him in Hopewell. I don't think the evidence puts him in Hopewell."
  —Greg Algren [14:40]

• On modern DNA testing resistance:
  "They acted like we wanted them to divulge the nuclear code."
  —Joe Nocera [21:13]

• On the impossibility of a fair verdict:
  "There was no way he was gonna live."
  —Renell Delmont [25:22]

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Conclusion

This episode compellingly dissects the official narrative, weighing circumstantial evidence, public pressure, police practices, and the powerful pull of conspiracy. It spotlights how evidence can be both compelling and ambiguous, and how history is shaped not just by facts but by prejudice, opportunity, and the desperate need for closure. Next time, the series promises to dig into the fairness of Hauptmann’s trial.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Joe Nocera]

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[Joe Nocera]

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[Joe Nocera]

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[Joe Nocera]

Before we get started, just to let you know, if you want to binge this whole series today and without ads, you should become a paid subscriber to the Free Press. Our paid subscribers can listen to all six episodes right now with no ads and will gain all the other benefits of a paid free press subscription. That's access to our journalism podcasts, community features and event perks. Subscribe today and save yourself waiting for the next episode. Remember when I said that Charles Lindbergh did a lot of boneheaded things during the search for his kidnapped son? Well, let me give you a primo example. He instructed the bank that was putting together the ransom money, the money that John Condon was going to give to Cemetery John, to make sure they kept no record of the serial numbers of the bills. That way the money couldn't be traced. I kid you not. Why in the world would the great aviator suggest such a thing? Well, he felt that the easier he made it for the kidnappers to get away, the better the chances they would give him his child back. Of course, for those who now take a darker view of Lindbergh's actions is just another data point suggesting his involvement in the crime. He wanted to make it easy for the kidnappers because, you know, he was in on it. As usual, Norman Schwarzkopf was willing to go along, but that treasury official, Elma Irae, the guy who put Al Capone in jail and refused to let him out for Lindbergh's sake, he put his foot down. His title was Chief Law Enforcement officer of the U.S. treasury. And he told Lindbergh that if the money went to the kidnappers unmarked, the Treasury Department would abandon the case. Reluctantly, Lindbergh went along with Irae's demand. And though he didn't tell this to Lindbergh, Irey had a little trick up his sleeve.

[Richard Cahill]

When they put the ransom together, they had Elmer Irey, and he knew. It wasn't well known, but he knew that President Roosevelt was going to order all gold certificates to be turned in. It was going to be illegal to hoard gold. So they made sure a substantial part of the ransom was paid in gold certificates. Because in 1933, when this was going to happen. And Ira knew it was going to happen. They would become much easier to spot.

[Joe Nocera]

Gold certificates were bills that were backed. Not just by the US Government like the dollar is. But by actual gold reserves. You know, the bricks in Fort Knox. They had a distinctive look. At Irae's instructions, the treasury team recorded a master list. Of every serial number. Of the gold certificate bill intended for the ransom. Since smaller denominations of the bill, Such as fives and tens and twenties. Were going to be used in the ransom. The list was long, like 5,100 serial numbers. That was the money that Jaffsey handed over to Cemetery John.

[Richard Cahill]

We all know that they sent out lists of the serial numbers on the bills. To all the bank tellers and so forth. But checking every bill like this. The odds of them catching it isn't very good. But when it's just gold certificates. And they're unusual to see. It's, you know, and they're under orders, you will check every gold.

[Joe Nocera]

Over the course of the next few years. Small amounts of the ransom money did show up in banks, Mostly in the Bronx. But by the time the banks figured out a particular bill was part of the ransom. Too much time had passed for the teller to remember who turned it in. But then, on September 15, 1934, more than two years after little Lindy was taken. A brown Dodge sedan pulled into a gas station. The driver was well dressed, and he spoke in a foreign accent. The manager of the station filled the tank, and when it came time to pay, the customer handed over a $10 gold certificate. Now, the attendant didn't suspect the man of being the Lindbergh kidnapper. He was just worried that he was going to get stiffed. Because the bank wouldn't accept the bill. Which were no longer legal tender. So he wrote the license plate on the back of the bill just in case. This time, when the certificate was deposited, the bank quickly realized it was part of the ransom. The teller recalled that it had been deposited by a filling station. The police tracked down the right station, spoke to the manager, Traced the license plate. And discovered the car belonged to, you guessed it, Bruno, Richard Hauptman, a German carpenter.

[Jim Davidson]

They arrested Haltmann even though they had other leads for other people at the time. They just dropped all the other leads and didn't want to pursue anything. That money kept appearing in New York. And they said, oh, forget about it. We're not going to track the money anymore.

[Joe Nocera]

So that was it. They had their man. Or did they. I'm Joe Nocera and for the Free Press, this is the Lindbergh Conspiracies. This is episode three, three Follow the Money. Once Hoffman was arrested, the investigators stopped looking into other possible suspects. Bruno Richard Houtman was the guiltiest man I ever knew, Elma Ire wrote after he retired. Once they had Hauptman, the investigators had one clear cut goal, to gather enough evidence to put him in the electric chair. Some of that evidence was real and undeniable, but some of it was, well, pretty shaky. And that's a polite way of putting it. In Germany, where Hauptman grew up, he was a small time crook who had spent some time in prison for burglary and theft. Historian Anthony Scuduto, who wrote a book about the case, unearthed anecdotes that show Hauptman was clearly a rather cheeky criminal. While exercising in the jail yard one day, Haltman slipped through an open gate, but not without leaving his prison clothes on the doorstep with a note that read, best wishes to the police. He was 24 when he came to America as a stowaway in July 19. It was his second attempt, the first time he'd been caught and sent back. A decade after coming to America, Hartman was living in the Bronx and working as an itinerant carpenter. His wife Anna, who by the way, fiercely defended him until her death in 1994 at the age of 95. She worked part time in a bakery. They had just had a son named Manfred. Like most germans in the U.S. hoffman faced prejudice. A holdover from World War I, Renell Delma has a rather pithy way of putting it.

[Renell Delmont]

German illegal alien. Anybody heard about illegal aliens lately?

[Joe Nocera]

Hobman spoke broken English and that was one bit of evidence against him. The gas station attendant, Jassy Lindbergh, they all said the man they heard had a strong German accent. Remember, hey, Doc? But his inability to speak English fluently hurt him in ways that went well beyond the evidence, especially during the trial. Here's Richard Cahill.

[Richard Cahill]

When he was being cross examined, he was asked about his past and his criminal past. And one of the offenses that he had been charged and convicted of in Germany was a robbery, an armed robbery where there were women who had baby carriages and he and another person held them up at gunpoint. And they were trying to say, oh, how could you do that with a baby and the child and so forth. And he screamed out, everybody had baby carriages. Well, nobody knew what he meant. What he meant was at that time period in Germany, there was horrible inflation and it was a very difficult time. And what a lot of people did is they would hide their valuables in a baby carriage, because what monster would go through a baby carriage? But he couldn't express it?

[Joe Nocera]

But then there was this. When investigators searched his property for clues, they found $14,000 in gold certificates. Certificates that were unquestionably part of the ransom. Houptman did have an explanation for this. Retired cop, Greg Algren.

[Greg Algren]

He had a story about another immigrant having given him the money to keep before going back to Germany and dying of natural causes, tuberculosis. I believe that story could be correct.

[Joe Nocera]

As a matter of fact, there was such a fellow, another German immigrant named Isidor Fisch. And he did go back to Germany in December 1933, nine months before Haltmann was arrested. And he did die of tuberculosis. After Hauptman was arrested, investigators retrieved the bills Fish had used to pay for his return trip. And you know what they were? Gold certificates with serial numbers that showed they'd been part of the ransom. But with Fish dead, prosecutors had zero interest in pursuing an angle that might exonerate Haltman.

[Jim Davidson]

They take Haltman into the police station in New York, the Greenwich Police Station, and basically beat the hell out of the guy using a hammer wrapped in a sock and everything else. And sleep, depriving him, having him up constantly, forcing him to copy the ransom notes as they were, and so on.

[Joe Nocera]

He won't fess up. Evidence that might suggest Hauptman didn't do it or at least didn't do it alone is completely ignored.

[Jim Davidson]

Now, I gotta tell you, from living in the Sarah Lynns across the driveway,

[Joe Nocera]

you might remember from previous episodes, Jim Davidson telling us he lived in the area. In fact, he lived very close to the Lindbergh house in Hopewell.

[Jim Davidson]

They only paved that road in 1969. Right now, you can barely get two cars across it. Back then, it was literally a trail and no signs up on the mountain. And to have somebody from the Bronx come out and find this house is almost an impossibility. But yet, once Haltman found the money, that's how everything changed.

[Joe Nocera]

And they didn't want to hear anything that distracted from the possibility that Bruno was their guy.

[Jim Davidson]

And it was also interesting how the state police intimidated anybody that would back Haltman's excuse. Like the day the ransom money was paid, it was his birthday and they were having a party at his house. And that didn't mean anything to the police. And if somebody like Hans Kuppelberg, Hans

[Joe Nocera]

and Bruno were best friends, came forward

[Jim Davidson]

and said, you know, I was at this party, they said, well, then you're going to be an accessory to the crime. So, you know, one by one, any of Haltman's alibis were just intimidated out of the picture.

[Joe Nocera]

To be fair, investigators kept finding evidence pointing to Hauptman's guilt, too. Remember, he was a carpenter. Tool marks on the ladder matched tools he owned, and he seemed to have a set of chisels that matched the chisel found at the scene of the crime. Then there was the ladder, the infamous ladder. Some of the wood used to make the ladder was found to match wood used as flooring in his attic. At his trial, a wood expert would say as much. And then there's something really odd. Condon's telephone number and address were found scrawled on a door frame inside Hopman's closet. Author Maria Fredericks thinks all of these unanswered questions are what keep modern day investigators tantalized and frustrated.

[Mariah Fredericks]

I think the fact that the crime scene was not properly secured, that footprint evidence was eradicated, the fact that when you're dealing with a family of the wealth and influence of the Lindberghs and the person who is executed happens to be a poor undocumented immigrant, I do think that the evidence with Houtman, the latter evidence, the fact that when he was asked about having Condon's number written in his closet, I think the unanswered questions of how did Houtman go from the Bronx to Hopewell, New Jersey? What did he intend to do with the child?

[Joe Nocera]

In fact, with every piece of evidence against Hoffman, there always seems to be something else that sheds doubt on it, like that phone number in the closet. A journalist later said he wrote it. But then why did Hauptman agree that he'd been the one to write it?

[Mariah Fredericks]

Hauptman's answer was, oh, I was a little bit interested in the trial, so I guess I jotted it down. Well, if I hadn't put Jaffs's number in my closet, I would not say that I had.

[Joe Nocera]

Greg Algren, the former cop who thinks the kidnapping was a Lindbergh prank gone wrong, says there's plenty to point to Bruno being an extortionist, but not a kidnapper. In other words, the reason he saw Condon's note in the Bronx Home News was because he lived in the Bronx and he saw an opportunity.

[Greg Algren]

He could very well have been an extortionist. And I think one of the mistakes that people who came before us made is that they feel, well, if Hoatman didn't do it, then he Must be innocent. Must be this guy who was framed. Right? Then he must be this poor individual. But it's not black or white. I'm not saying he was an extortionist. I mean, the fish story could be correct. But they really wanted to put him in Hopewell. I don't think the evidence puts him in Hopewell. So if you say, look, he's an extortionist. If he had gotten up on the stand and said, I tried to make money off this, I did all these things, and you take all of that away, he concedes that. What evidence is there that he's in hope?

[Poppy]

So you think he basically was an opportunist. Maybe he knew people who were involved, he acted upon that and then paid.

[Greg Algren]

That's impossibility.

[Poppy]

The death penalty for that decision. But just was not actually involved in the kidnapping itself.

[Greg Algren]

Lindbergh goes to the press and says, we will pay a ransom, no questions asked. There'll be no prosecution. Just give us the baby. He says that in the middle of the American Depression. I mean, guess what happens? I mean, every con artist in the world is coming forward and deluging hope on New Jersey with ransom demands and tips and everything else. We know the money was handed over. The worst is there was no stranger of ducks. Oh, it's unlikely it was a stranger abduction.

[Joe Nocera]

Because he's an ex cop. Algren tends to be open to a variety of possibilities when a case hasn't been solved. It doesn't matter to him whether it's the Lindbergh kidnapping or a local homicide. Renell Delmont, though, is convinced that Hoffman was railroaded and that Lindbergh is largely responsible. When we were at the cemetery, Greg and Ronelle got pretty animated about this.

[Renell Delmont]

Well, that's their story. It may not be true.

[Joe Nocera]

She's talking about Condon and Lindbergh. Remember, Grinnell thinks Lindbergh was in on it. And Condon, over time, became a co conspirator.

[Greg Algren]

Right, but we don't. All we know is what I say this other time in my case. Somebody will say, well, this happened. And I'll say, no, we don't know that that's what happened. All we know is that that's what Witness A said happened.

[Renell Delmont]

Right, the liar.

[Greg Algren]

Witness B said, happen.

[Renell Delmont]

The other liar. Right. Two people who.

[Greg Algren]

All we ever know is in the case is what people say about it. We don't know what happened.

[Renell Delmont]

That's my point.

[Joe Nocera]

Poppy and I spoke to a psychologist named Jerry Cross. He believes Haltman was innocent. And he puts a lot of weight on the fact that he was German. To him, there was significant prejudice towards Germans after World War I. And maybe, just maybe, residing in the American psyche was something more, a premonition even.

[Jerry Cross]

Hopton goes to a gas station and says, I got a nice $20 bill. And that's how he gets arrested. He didn't know if this was the Lindbergh money, but he's spending the Lindbergh money and that's how he got caught. And he was totally innocent, but he was a German. That was extremely important that he be put to death because something was gurgling in the American unconscious. They knew something was going to happen, but it hadn't happened yet. Hitler is appearing. Nazism is starting to show its face, and then the Lindbergh child is kidnapped. I think it's a premonition rather than a reflection of the past.

[Joe Nocera]

Why are you so convinced that Hoffman was innocent?

[Jerry Cross]

Oh, simple. I could do a forensic approach, but I'll do a psychological approach. If you're guilty, I mean, he had a wife and he had a newborn baby and he was offered, I don't know, 75 or $95,000. He was going to go to the electric chair and a journal said, we'll give you 95,000. You tell us the story. That money will go to your wife and their children. They'll be taking care of the rest of your life. And if he was guilty, that wouldn't have been a bad idea. But he said, no, I will never do that. He turned down the money. An innocent man would do that, but a guilty man would not do that.

[Joe Nocera]

The ransom notes, of course, were important pieces of evidence. So the question had Hauptman written them.

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[Joe Nocera]

Prosecutors hoped handwriting analysis would tie him to the crime.

[Mariah Fredericks]

The handwriting is somewhat disputed because the police apparently told him to write in specific ways.

[Joe Nocera]

That's author Mariah Fredericks.

[Mariah Fredericks]

But I think they have hand driving that he wrote prior to the investigation. And it's still a pretty good match.

[Joe Nocera]

Here's the cool thing. You can actually go down to the New Jersey State Police Museum where there's a big Lindbergh exhibit that includes a handful of the ransom notes. Needless to say, Poppy and I did exactly that on a crisp October day last year.

[Poppy]

We have on here replications of the various key ransom notes. And what is immediately obvious seeing them like this is different writers.

[Joe Nocera]

In all, The Lindberghs received 15 ransom notes in 13 envelopes. The most important one, of course, is the first one, the one that was left by the window on the night of. Poppy came to a pretty quick conclusion when she compared the original ransom note to the others in the Lindbergh exhibit.

[Poppy]

You don't have to be a handwriting expert, but they are written by different people from the night of to here. It doesn't all match.

[Joe Nocera]

Although the handwriting experts said all the notes were written by Hauptman. The naked eye says otherwise. Or at least Poppy's naked eye. And I gotta tell you, mine too. Here we come to a pretty interesting modern day twist in the plot. It would be really simple to determine Haltmann's guilt or innocence right now. Simple how? With DNA. Of course, the kidnapper had to lick the envelope to seal it and he also had to lick the back of the stamp. All these years later, the DNA of the kidnapper would still be on the envelope in the stamp. But whenever the New Jersey State Police Museum has been asked to do DNA testing of the ransom note, it is always said no. When we asked their rationale, they wouldn't even discuss the matter. They acted like we wanted them to divulge the nuclear code. Anything with DNA testing, typing, anything to do with any forensic examination we can't

[Richard Cahill]

discuss at this time.

[Joe Nocera]

Kurt Perlak is a lawyer and lindberghologist who has filed multiple lawsuits against the museum to get the envelopes tested.

[Kurt Perlak]

I think that the only way to get real justice here is to find out out of these 225,000 pieces of paper, the 15 or so that might have tangible DNA should be examined, should be tested. And if Houtman's DNA is on those 15 pieces of paper, great. I think it's more likely than not that at least one of those pieces of Paper does not have Houghton's DNA on them.

[Joe Nocera]

Kurt says that officials at the museum have tried to put him off from pursuing this by telling him the Lindbergh kidnapping is a nothing burger.

[Kurt Perlak]

Kurt, this is a 90 year old case that nobody cares about anymore. So my answer back to that was, well, that's great. If nobody cares about this then, then why do you guys care about it? Why can't you allow some DNA testing on a couple pieces of paper? Yeah, no, we're not going to do that. And they weren't really giving a reason as to why. It was just the answer is no. So like they wanted me to clearly go away.

[Joe Nocera]

But God bless him, he hasn't. We'll catch up with him again later. Meanwhile, let's head back to the 1930s. Here's the case the police were building against Bruno. A German immigrant drove from the Bronx to Hopewell. Somehow made his way to Lindbergh's house in the woods. He then lucked out because it turned out to be the rare weekday the Lindberghs were there. He climbed into the warped, unlocked window using a ladder he had built himself. He grabbed the baby and climbed out without leaving a fingerprint or a mud stain from his boots. How did the baby die? The investigators theory was that the ladder cracked, causing Kaufman to drop the baby. Little Lindy died when his head hit the ground. In a panic, he disposed of the body in the woods. Then he began sending the Lindbergh ransom notes and took the money from Condon in the cemetery. For a long time he didn't spend the money because he assumed the banks had the serial numbers. But eventually he couldn't wait anymore and he used one too many gold certificates and he got caught. The state of New Jersey always viewed it as an open and shut case. He climbed in, he grabbed a baby, he climbed out, he dropped the baby. End of story. But if that's not what really happened, if Hoffman was just an extortionist trying to make a fast buck, why not just confess that and save himself?

[Greg Algren]

Rosie Hoffman gets on the jury box up in the jury Witten's box in 1935 and he says, I'm a real jerk. I saw an opportunity to make money and saw Jaffsey's announcement in the Bronx News. I figured I could make some easy money, so I figured I'd scam a national hero. I'm sorry I did that. I'm ashamed of myself. Yes, I did that. I took the money, I went to the cemetery, I pocketed the money, I used it to buy things over the years, but I wasn't on that ladder in Hopewell. Does the jury convict?

[Renell Delmont]

Yes. There was no way he was gonna live.

[Joe Nocera]

The whole country wanted to see the guy die.

[Jerry Cross]

I think if you admit to one,

[Joe Nocera]

they're like, what else is this guy lying about? Doesn't matter that he would truthful about this one thing. It must be a ploy to cover up his larger crime, which was the kidnapping. One thing's for sure. If the kidnapping itself was the crime of the century, the trial that took place In January and February 1935 was the trial of the century. The question nobody was asking in the 1930s is the question today. Did Richard Bruno Hoffman get a fair trial? That's next Time.

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