← The Liz Moody Podcast
The Liz Moody Podcast
How To Be Selfish, Cringe & Nosy (In A Good Way) To Get What You Want
01:16:55
I’m joined by best-selling author Jenny Wood, who shares that your dream life is actually on the other side of what you’re told NOT to be. Get practical tools to overcome fear and step into success.
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- [00:00]
A
The life you want is on the other side of so many of the things that you are told not to be. How many times have you stopped yourself from sending that message, from raising your hand, from asking for what you want because you did not want to seem, like too much, too eager, too bold, too cringe? And how much has that cost you in your career, in your relationships, in your entire life? Here's the thing nobody tells you. The people who are winning at work, at love, at life, aren't the ones who played it cool. They're the people who aren't afraid to be cringe or bossy or selfish or manipulative or nosy or weird. And today, you are going to learn practical tactics to get over fears of failure or judgment or rejection and step into the dream life that you deserve. My guest today is Jenny Wood, a former Google executive, the founder of one of the largest career development programs inside of one of the most competitive companies on earth, and and the author of Wild Go after what yout Want and Get It. She built her career and her life by doing the things that you're not supposed to do. And today she's going to teach you how to do them, too. Welcome to the Liz Moody Podcast, where we skip past the BS and get you actual solutions to your real problems so you can feel as good as possible every single day. We're not going to tell you that you can do it. We're going to tell you exactly how. Okay, Jenny, I want to start off with why is trying not to be cringe holding us back from our dream lives?
- [01:27]
B
If you worry about being cringe, then you're getting in the way of your own happiness, your own success. Because this fear of judgment, this fear of cringe, is stopping you from going after what you want.
- [01:39]
A
So how do we stop being afraid of judgment?
- [01:42]
B
We ask for what we want. We take the action. That might seem unusual or non conformist, but there are all these unspoken rules that we think we have to follow that we actually. And the rule breakers are the ones who end up being successful.
- [01:55]
A
What are the rules we're following that we don't need to be following?
- [01:58]
B
Well, the shoulds, right? The boss should promote you. If you just put your head down and do hard work. A mentor should notice you and miraculously want to mentor you. The boy should ask the girl out, right? So these aren't like laws, but they're social norms and they get in our way of being successful, especially for women.
- [02:20]
A
Yeah, I love this. I have a motto which is never be the one to say no to. And I thought about this when I was reading your book so many times. But I thought about it, especially when you asked your husband out. Can you tell that story? I love it.
- [02:32]
B
Yeah. So it's 2011. I'm riding the subway home from work in New York City, the C train, the line of love, when about 20ft away from me stands this really good looking guy. Gorgeous blue eyes, thick brown, wavy hair, the whole works. And even though I want to talk to him, something holds me back. You don't go up and talk to a stranger on the subway. Like that is the societal rule. I sit there, I do nothing as the train passes stop after stop after stop. And as, frankly, life passes me by. But yet I'm still so taken by him. So I make a deal with myself. I say, if he gets off at my stop, which is 72nd street, then maybe I'll try to strike up a conversation with him. And if not, then c' est la vie. Well, Liz, he gets off at the next stop, which is not my stop. The doors are just about to close, and then all of a sudden, I feel this wave of wild courage wash over me and practically push me out of my subway seat and off the train. I literally chase after him. I'm all, like, disheveled. I catch him as he's exiting the stairs and I say, excuse me, I'm sorry to bother you. And he says, that's okay. You seem nice. I said, you're wearing gloves, so I can't tell if you're wearing a wedding ring, but in the event that you're not married, you were on my subway and I thought you were cute. Any chance I could give you my business card? And then I wait for what feels like a slow, forever thinking, this was a terrible idea. But eventually he takes the card. He calls the next day, we go on a date a week later, and we've now been married happily for 12 years.
- [03:58]
A
Okay, so most people are cringing, hardcore, listening to that story. A lot of people are like, I cannot believe you would run after him. I can't believe you would say you want this thing in this way. How did you stop the negative voices in your head in that moment?
- [04:13]
B
I mean, for me, of the three fears, fear of failure, fear of uncertainty, and fear of judgment by others, fear of uncertainty is the hardest. I'd so much rather have an answer, even if it's a no, than live the rest of my life wondering. So in my mind, I was like, well, at least if he says no, I'll have an answer rather than wondering the rest of my life. But I recognize that perhaps I'm unique in that way. Though I will say this is a skill that can be learned. This is nothing I was born with.
- [04:38]
A
Okay, so how do we learn it?
- [04:40]
B
Wild courage is the way to learn it. It's nine traits that create the bars of an invisible cage. The nine traits of wild courage are weird, selfish, shameless, nosy, obsessed, manipulative. That's a spicy one. Brutal, reckless, and bossy. So they all raise eyebrows, right? But when used in a savvy, insane way, they can supercharge your success, your happiness.
- [05:03]
A
So which of those traits were you relying on in that moment that you got off the train?
- [05:07]
B
Ooh, good question. Nosy, right? The courage to get insatiably curious. These, of course, are all reclaimed from the original definitions. And maybe we can reclaim cringe today as well. Reckless. The courage to err on the side of action and take calculated risks. Because if you're on the fence, do it. And that's what I did that day.
- [05:23]
A
A lot of this is about risk taking, I think, and it's about putting people in a position where they're willing to take those risks. So I would love to know first, why is taking risks so hard?
- [05:32]
B
Taking risks is hard because we live in this fear. When I left Google, which was about a year ago, I had such a hard time pulling the trigger because I was caught in what I call truths and tales. So here's an example from when I left Google. Tail, we're gonna run out of money and have to move out of our nice house by all the beautiful hiking trails in Boulder. I'm gonna lose my identity, right? Because I was at Google for 18 years. It was a huge part of my identity. But then look at the corresponding truths. Truth, I just won't get a paycheck from Google every two weeks. Truth, I'll have other ways to identify as a mom, as an entrepreneur. So when you separ truths entails, you're better able to live into those risks and to make decisions that are a little bit more grounded in reality. You don't have to do a complete 180 and have like a rose colored glasses view on everything in life. But it is helpful to at least think through is this tale serving me? And how can I tell myself a more positive or at least neutral tale? At least start with neutral.
- [06:33]
A
Yeah, it's interesting. I always tell my audience that research by and large supports taking risks versus not taking risks. And that even if those risks don't Work out. We tend to regret taking them less than not taking them. But then they'll ask me, okay, great, love the info. But how do I, like, get over that hump and get myself to take the risk? And you're saying to, like, literally map out these truths and tales?
- [06:55]
B
Yeah, literally map out the truths and tales. Another thing that can help people if they're faced with a risk. Leaving a job, asking for a promotion, asking somebody out on a date, making friendships in a new city that they've moved to. Think about the risk in four different ways. Physical risk, financial risk, emotional risk, and cognitive risk. And rank. All of them. You might be really surprised that the riskier move is actually not taking action. I did that for this decision to leave Google or not, which Liz. It terrified me. And it took me at least a year and a half to finally pull the trigger and say, I'm ready to go. I didn't have a business outside of Google. I was leaving to be what I called a starving artist. Like, I'm going to go leave and write a book. What am I, nuts?
- [07:32]
A
Yeah.
- [07:33]
B
So I broke it down. Physical risk. It was actually riskier staying at Google. I was. They say you can't get addicted to Trazodone to this sleep medication. They say you're dependent. I felt like I was actually addicted.
- [07:44]
A
And so you could not fall asleep without medication.
- [07:47]
B
I could not fall asleep without medication. Without it, I'd be up from about 2am to 5am because I was wearing five hats. I had so much, what I call lowercase A anxiety that I was without trazodone up between 2 and 5am it was dangerous. It was physically unhealthy. So the physical risk of staying at Google was actually much higher than. Than leaving financial risk. I told myself that one was pretty high. But then we had seven conversations with our financial advisor, like, go get the data. Don't live in fear without getting the data. And our financial advisor kept saying, you can do this. And I was very fortunate. But I also made really smart choices financially to get there. So that's financial risk. Not. Not as high as I would have expected. Emotional risk. Pretty high to stay at Google because I felt like I was letting everybody down. I felt like I was letting my team down. I felt like I was letting my family down. I felt like I was letting down the opportunities outside of Google that I would have to say no to because I just simply couldn't do it all. And then finally, cognitive risk. And similarly to emotional risk, my brain was just on overdrive. I really couldn't focus because there was so much happening at the same time. So when you break down risk into those four elements, physical, financial, emotional and cognitive, it allows you to, in a more grounded and data based way, think through, well, what is the actual risk here versus what am I telling myself this big risk is? Overall, I love that.
- [09:05]
A
And I also think the really important part of what you're doing is you're saying, what's the risk of the choice that I'm making by not making a choice?
- [09:12]
B
Right.
- [09:12]
A
And what's the risk of the choice that I might be feeling into? Because I think a lot of times we'll be like, well, it feels really scary to move to a new town. But we don't talk about what's the risk of staying where I am.
- [09:20]
B
Yeah, exactly. And regret is much heavier than failure.
- [09:23]
A
What if our fear is just the uncertainty? So we would rather the certain thing that we have right now versus the uncertainty of how this other thing is going to go. How do we begin to navigate that fear?
- [09:33]
B
Well, that's the hardest for me. And I would say action, not thinking provides clarity. Take a step. If you're looking at changing jobs, go talk to somebody at that company and see if they could connect you to somebody else who is on a team who has, you know, projects that are kind of similar to yours. It's the thinking, the overthinking that gets in the way. But if you spend 10 minutes setting up a coffee chat with somebody identifying three people you want to meet who might know about this thing, go look at housing costs in the city that you might want to move to, the more information you get, the less you feel stuck in the fear of the uncertainty.
- [10:05]
A
Yeah, I love the idea to have the action proceed. You talk about in the book people getting stuck in this like planning phase and almost using that as an excuse not to take action. Can you maybe say some ways that might be happening in our lives if we're like looking to identify that?
- [10:21]
B
Workcrastination. So you're still working.
- [10:24]
A
Right.
- [10:24]
B
You have to respond to those emails in your inbox. You've got to go to those meetings. But it's the easy stuff, it's the simple stuff. It's not the stuff where you sink your teeth into it and you actually create. You actually make something incredible that's going to inspire people and move your business forward, move people forward. So work crastination is procrastinating with other work that doesn't really serve you as much as the big scary work does.
- [10:46]
A
You say to Double your success, quadruple your failure rate. Tell me about that.
- [10:50]
B
I was thinking about this last night because my daughter was practicing front walkovers on her non dominant foot, and. Which was hard for her. And she. She's like, mom, I'm gonna get it. She's like, just three more. Just three more. Just three more. We're like, noah, you've gotta take a bath. It is so late. But she was so determined to get it. She must have fallen over 30, 40, 50 times to get that one perfect standing non dominant foot front walkover. And she felt incredible when she did. So. You know, just a silly example that made me think of this last night. Everyone who is successful, everyone who's gotten to a certain place of leadership, of financial success, of family success, of whatever it is, right? They've maybe gone through miscarriages or failed rounds of ivf. They've gotten laid off, they've gotten fired, they've been slapped on the wrist by the VP because they said something outlandish in a meeting.
- [11:44]
A
Well, guess what?
- [11:45]
B
When you say that bold thing in the meeting, you get remembered.
- [11:49]
A
I love that. So then it begs the natural question, what do we do about a fear of failure?
- [11:54]
B
We recognize that there's something called the spotlight effect in social psychology. This is the principle that we think there's a spotlight over our head, but everybody else feels like there's a spotlight over their head, too. So no one's worrying about us or our failures or our mistakes because they're worrying about their own failures and mistakes. When was the last time you lay awake at night worrying about somebody else's ums on the podcast or how well they performed as a guest on the podcast? Probably not so often.
- [12:29]
A
Yeah, but when I guest on other people's podcasts, I will lay awake all night thinking about it.
- [12:34]
B
Exactly. So to push past the fear of failure, you recognize that even if you might be worrying about this quote, unquote failure, nobody else is because they're worried about their own. So that helps you ground yourself a little bit in the reality of you can ask the friend in a new city to coffee, or you can ask the guy out, because nobody is focusing on you as much as you are focusing on yourself. And that helps you realize that, like your quote, unquote, failure does not look like failure to somebody else.
- [13:05]
A
In work and in life, what are some of the top ways that you see people wasting time?
- [13:10]
B
1. Overthinking. I'll spend 12 minutes composing a text message to a group or even to a single person. The verb the Noun, the tone, like, jenny, just send the damn thing. So I think overthinking is a huge time waster. Overthinking is the enemy of progress. And then meetings. I really saw people unproductive in meetings and just wasting massive amounts of time. And if you work in an organization that's a heavy meeting culture, I invite you shorten 60 minutes to 30 minute meetings, scale back. If you have a meeting weekly, try it biweekly. If you have it biweekly, try it monthly. And then finally, if you regularly go to this meeting that's got 12 people in it and you can't remember the last time you added value or derived value, then suggest to the meeting owner that perhaps you no longer attend or you send a delegate or you attend every other week.
- [14:02]
A
Is that nerve wracking to not have your face be at that meeting?
- [14:05]
B
It's all about picking the right meetings, right? Like, you do want to go to some meetings, but there are so, so many. Like, go to the ones where your boss's boss is there, where your boss's boss's boss is there, where your boss's peers are there. Yeah, but don't just go participate. If you're just nodding along like a
- [14:18]
A
bobblehead, then you're not really getting a benefit there.
- [14:20]
B
In fact, it's hurting you because you are creating a personal brand for yourself of nothing to add, no ideas, no leadership potential, no ability to have a perspective, no ability to amplify your voice. You're actually doing yourself a disservice by being there and not saying anything.
- [14:35]
A
You would hate my meetings. I'm like a real water cooler chat girl. I'm like, let's talk about Taylor Swift for 15 minutes.
- [14:42]
B
Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna say, well, I think water cooler chat is critically important.
- [14:46]
A
Okay?
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B
Because that's sometimes where the real transfer of information happens.
- [14:50]
A
No, but not about Taylor Swift, probably.
- [14:52]
B
No, that could be really helpful for building culture. It's about the right balance.
- [14:56]
A
I'm all culture. All culture. Okay. I was trying to think about your schedule and I genuinely could not understand it because you are a mom. You have all these crazy hobbies. Like, you're a pilot, which is like, what, What? You were a Google executive and now you're a New York Times bestselling author. I'm like, where? Literally, like, what are your time management hacks to fit in all of these things into your life?
- [15:19]
B
It's not easy.
- [15:22]
A
I actually don't think it's possible, though. So convince me otherwise.
- [15:26]
B
Okay, so this gets to the Brutal trait, which is the courage to protect your time, energy, and priorities. People pleasing pleases no one. It keeps you small. Brutality is far cleaner, kinder, and frankly, more effective. So cut the bull, spare everyone's time and energy, and just say what you mean. Say no. I can't go to that. If a kid's friend's mom asks me to go to coffee, and this happened a few weeks ago, even though our kids are like best friends, I say no because that isn't something that I want to spend my time on. Even if it feels socially awkward or cringe that I have to pass this mom school pickup and know that I said no to going to coffee.
- [16:00]
A
Yeah. Are you worried people are gonna think you're a bitch?
- [16:02]
B
I do worry people will think I'm a bitch. I worry that people think I'm a workaholic. I worry that people think, especially when I was at Google, that I was a shitty mom and that I never spent time with my kids. There was a year where a nanny took our kids to school and picked them up. I have close friends who judged me for that and told me so. And I just have to have the wild courage to say, this is my priority right now. This is temporary. This is the season of life I'm in. And now I'm in a different season where I don't work on Mondays and I'm done every day at 2:30, so I can leave the house at 2:40 and pick my kids up at 2:50. So, you know, it ebbs and flows. And even though I felt so much mom guilt when I was in that other season of really intense Google exec work, and then after that, launching the book and trying to make a huge business, now I'm finally at the place where I can optimize for flexibility. So it's yes, you can have it all, a wonderful mentor named Julie once said to me, just not all at the same time. And that's what I've experienced.
- [17:05]
A
Okay, so I'm gonna push you a little bit, please.
- [17:07]
B
Because, yeah, you can call BS on me.
- [17:10]
A
When we talked about the spotlight effect, you said other people are not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are. And yet your friends say, hey, girl, you're not getting your kids ready for school. Like, you should be embarrassed. Mom world seems to be like a lot of judgment, a lot of other people thinking about our choices. So how do we balance those two?
- [17:27]
B
Fair. So first, I still defend the spotlight effect because even if she said it, I don't think she was like Actually living her judging me. She's a dear friend who loves me and cares about me. And it was actually said in a little bit of a more productive and helpful way. And I think oftentimes when we get feedback that might feel unwelcome from our friends, they are really trying to be helpful and productive. And we should do our best to judge favorably. Right.
- [17:49]
A
But sometimes they're just looking to justify their own life choices via our life choices.
- [17:53]
B
Oh, for sure.
- [17:54]
A
But what about in general? Like the fact that there is often evidence that people are judging us, and that feels shitty.
- [18:01]
B
It does feel shitty. I think there's two types of judgment. There is anticipated judgment, and there is actual judgment. So anticipated judgment is related to impact bias, the concept that when you anticipate pain, getting laid off, a breakup, we tend to overestimate how painful, how severe that pain is gonna feel to us and how long it's going to last. And then the thing happens, the breakup happens, the layoff happens, you get fired. And much more quickly than we realize, we feel better. That's impact bias. So I think that's one way of pushing past anticipated judgment.
- [18:41]
A
It's like, even if the mom judges you, it might hurt for a second, but then you'll move past it way faster than you think.
- [18:46]
B
Exactly. So you've got the anticipated judgment, then you've got the actual judgment. I do a lot of keynotes. I always collect data from these keynotes, and people will score the keynote from a scale on a scale of 1 to 5. So this one keynote, I did my first virtual. One of my first virtual keynotes, I got 98% positive feedback and 2% negative feedback. So what do we do? We immediately try to find, like, the negative feedback. We have a negativity bias. And I see this one piece of feedback that said Jenny Wood was terrible. Can I read it to you? I actually have. This was the actual quote that I read in the feedback. Jenny Wood was terrible. Every time I wanted to drop off the call and stop wasting my time, I would stay for the entertainment. Most of my department felt the same. It literally felt like she was reading off a teleprompter. Very unnatural.
- [19:38]
A
Wait, I feel like you're doing, like, celebrities read mean tweets on Jimmy Kimmel.
- [19:42]
B
Well, this is so not a celebrity. Not Twitter. But. But this is real.
- [19:48]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [19:48]
B
Okay, so this is real judgment. And I've recently left Google to go do this full time. I'm already terrified that I'm not going to be able to be able to make Money as a keynote speaker. And I read this, the pit in my stomach was unbelievable. Then I started spiraling and expanding it to other areas of my life. I am a terrible person. I'm a terrible employee. I'm a terrible leader. I am a terrible mom. Like everything spiral, spiral, spiral. I have a tool that I applied to this. And of course, sometimes it's hard to apply your own tools to your life, but it's called Burn, Learn, churn. And this is when you get actual judgment, actual feedback that is tough to work through. Burn what just doesn't serve you and you can completely disregard. Learn what's the thing you can learn from it and turn. How do you move through the feedback quickly? So in this case, there was definitely something to burn. Most of my department felt the same. Every time I wanted to drop off the call and stop wasting my time, I'd stay for the entertainment. That's just mean. That's not helpful. And how does he know how the rest of the department felt? It got 98% positive feedback from the other hundreds of people who had watched it. But then. So that's what I Burn, learn. It literally felt like she was reading off of a teleprompter. Very unnatural. Aha. That's actually good feedback. And I really was relying on my speaker notes. So burn what doesn't serve you, learn what you can from that and churn through it quickly from that moment on. Liz, I never once used speaker notes on a virtual presentation because it was just too much of a crutch for me.
- [21:19]
A
Okay, so our three step prescription for judgment is one, people aren't noticing you as much as you think. That's the spotlight effect. Two, if they are noticing you, we might be overestimating the impact that that noticing or judgment is going to have.
- [21:31]
B
And that's impact bias.
- [21:32]
A
And that's impact bias. And then three, we can burn, learn, churn. We can actually get little nuggets potentially out of that judgment.
- [21:39]
B
Absolutely. And just shed the mean stuff that doesn't serve you well.
- [21:42]
A
Shed the mean stuff. Okay. I love that. I love using our ad spots to bring you real value. So I am very excited to bring you this special series about a topic that I know you are super interested in. Supplements, including how to know if they're doing more harm than good, where to spend and where to save, and more. Joining me is Oliver Amdrub Shambi, the founder and CEO of Puri. I remember one of the first times I talked to you, you said the dark chocolate protein powder took you guys forever. Because you could not find, was it lead free caddy, metal free cadmium and lead free chocolate? Which I was like, well, what are other chocolate protein powders on the market doing? I'm like, it's so scary when you think about it.
- [22:20]
C
It is so scary. And that's why when you saw in the Cleanable Project's protein study, you saw it was more than 65% of the chocolate protein powders were above proposition 65 on heavy metals. If we just have this third party transparency at the end of the day, then consumers can find out for themselves. And when there is something where there's a higher risk of contamination, that's where we should focus. And we can see that in the
- [22:41]
A
protein industry what supplements have the highest risk of contamination.
- [22:45]
C
It depends on what is the contamination you're looking for. Because I will say if we go into fish oil, it might not be contamination from a purity heavy metal dioxin perspective, but it could be a rancidity issue. It's not fresh enough. It hasn't been handled the right way through production. The Super Rancid Omega 3 fatty acid doesn't bring any health benefits to the consumer. Fish oil, like really care about the oxidation score. I think it's a critical also the potency. Is there a fish oil in it like epa dha? You'd be surprised. And the protein side, I would say plant proteins generally tend to have more heavy metals in them. When we look at it, they're better at like removing heavy metals out of the soil and getting it into the plant protein cacao. There's other things to look at as well, like is the manufacturing facility that you're using. Are they, are they good enough in all the cleaning processes, Are they GMP certified? Will there be any residual solvents? You know, there's a lot of different things to look at depending on the product.
- [23:42]
A
I think the rancidity is also something that I learned from you. You said our fish oil is not gonna give you fish burps because only rancid fish oil gives you fish burps. And I kind of didn't believe you. But then I took your fish oil and I don't have any fish burps, which I really like because I don't eat fish, I don't eat seafood. So that flavor is very gross to me.
- [23:59]
C
It is very. I think it's gross to even like the most sushi fan out there. Rancid fish oil is horrible. You're buying Omega 3 for the sole reason of getting EPA DHA all these long chain fatty acids, that's what you want. So you want that number to be like high. So a potent dose would be an 80% concentration fish oil. So 80% of the fatty acids, that's there are omega 3 fatty acids. You would see several products on the market, probably closer to 30 or 40% on average. It's a cheaper product.
- [24:26]
A
So you'd have to take like 10
- [24:28]
C
pills exactly to get, let's say 2000 milligrams of EPA DHA, which is the case that we are aiming for on a brain acidity perspective as well. Then you want to look at the oxidation score of the fish oil and there's various ways to measure that. IFAWS is international fish oil standards, where you might go and be able to actually see the actual totox or oxidation score of the fish oil that you're consuming. If the brands are enrolling in that program, and I say normally the brands that enroll in that program care about their quality. The one thing you want to make sure is, is every single batch enrolled. So you want to look at your label of the product that you consume and see the batch. Is that the one you can find on their website? Because I've seen that again and again and again that brands are having like let's say multiple SKUs, but they have one in there which has probably the best data points, is my guess. It's not something that they do every single time that they do a product.
- [25:20]
A
You can get a discount on any of Puri's products, like their amazing dark chocolate protein powder and the fish oil that my doctor recommended for me. After looking at my blood test results by going to puri.com and using code Liz Moody, that's P-U-O-R-I.com with code Liz Moody. Tell me about the red sneaker effect and how we can use it to get ahead in work and life.
- [25:44]
B
The red sneaker effect is such a fun study out of Harvard University where it was found that people who do something out of the norm, for example, wear bright red sneakers with an elegant tux, are perceived as more competent and more successful. These are things that when you go outside of the norm, outside of the trend in a way that someone might say, that's cringe. Why is he doing that? You actually are seen as more successful, more competent and more authentic in a lot of ways. And it's kind of reckless, right? It goes back to taking these risks, these small risks, to being weird.
- [26:20]
A
How could we apply the red sneaker effect to like dating the red Sneaker
- [26:25]
B
effect is really about authenticity. I dated this guy, let's call him Brian, and he was not the right fit for me. He wanted a demure blonde, petite wallflower. And I'm a little loud. I'm a bit boisterous. I rocket down the street on the sidewalk, tap dancing to Broadway show tunes. I was trying to cram my square peg into a round hole, and I ended up getting bent out of shape. And if I had just honored the red sneaker effect and authentically been comfortable with who I was, I was trying to put myself in black patent leather shoes in this relationship. I was trying to be more demure. If I had just been my own wacky cringe version, extra version of Jenny, then I would have said, f this relationship. I would have taken my red sneaker style, you know, proverbially to somebody else. But instead, I stayed painfully in this relationship for six years, tormenting myself, trying to squeeze myself into this person who I wasn't, to please him when he was never going to like me anyway.
- [27:26]
A
That's so interesting. I have this concept called match theory. The idea that in life we're not looking to impress people, we're looking for our matches. So the faster that you can get the information to find out if somebody is match, the better. So, like, go on vacation with somebody really early. Wear the outfits that you like to wear on a date. Talk about the things you're genuinely interested in. Because if they're not interested in those things, you want to know that quickly. That's for friendships. That's for dating.
- [27:50]
B
I love it. Look at the example of me chasing John off, off the subway, asking if he was wearing a wedding ring, which
- [27:55]
A
I just thought would be like so many women, so many men would be like, no, that's not for me. But he was, which is such valuable information.
- [28:01]
B
Exactly. So, like, better to start the relationship on honest footing and, like, save a lot of wasted time.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah, that's so interesting. Okay, let's do one more red sneaker effect. What's a way that we could apply the red sneaker effect if we're in, like, a corporate computer job?
- [28:16]
B
To apply the red sneaker effect in a corporate job or really any industry, it's about speaking up. It's about standing out. It's raising your hand and offering an idea because you have a fresh perspective. Respectfully disagree with the manager. I mean, that is. That is the red sneaker effect at work. It's not blending it. Play it hot and not just play it cool and be like, oh, like I'm here like it's high school, and I'm just gonna, you know, not stand out and not raise my hand and not say anything like, no, play it hot. Even if you're not invited to the meetings, just go. Be there for other meetings with your team and run into the people who are making these decisions. Speak up, disagree, Sit in the front row, follow the VP out of the talk, and ask if they'll mentor you.
- [28:56]
A
Whoa. Okay, so if somebody's listening and they're like that, I'm gonna scare people away. People are gonna think I'm too intense. People are gonna think I push too hard. What do we. What do you say to them?
- [29:06]
B
Okay, well, first we have to think about this in the context of men versus women, because I think that men maybe would not be seen as pushing too hard. And women who have the double bind this conundrum that to be successful, we are stuck in this double bind of needing to be authoritative and assertive and decisive, but we also need to be sweet and kind and gentle and collaborative and empathetic. And, man, that is a tall order. But my goal is to level the playing field for the women so that they can live into their own full potential. So I will say that if what I just said sounds way too cringe and way too extra and way too intense, start small. Or if you're an introvert, right? And you just naturally have more of a tendency to listen more than you speak or to wait to be directed to do something before you bring an idea to the table. You don't have to chase the VP down the hall after they speak and ask them to be your mentor. You could do something that feels more authentic to you. Quietly send them an email saying, hey, here was something I really loved about your talk that is in and of itself a way to stand out.
- [30:13]
A
Okay, so kind of figure out what are your unique talents, your unique skills, and use those as your way to stand out from the crowd a little bit. Yeah.
- [30:21]
B
And I would say, know your power assets, right? Know what you stand for. This can be dating, or this can be at work. If you go on a first date, like, tell them what makes you awesome. I think about what my husband brought to the table, actually, when we first met each other, and I knew that John was, like, not a career guy, right? He was never going to want to aspire to be the CEO of a company. But he did say early on in dating that he was going to be an incredible father. He was. That was a power asset that he was bringing to the table. And my goodness, nothing has mattered to me more than him being a hilarious, empathetic, super flexible, highly supportive husband and father. And this is great advice for anyone listening who wants to try to figure out, well, what are my power assets? Think about, what did you love to do as a kid and what did you love to do in college? What do people always tell you you're good at? What would you do for free in life? Right. What lights you up? What is your favorite project to work on? You write these down. You try to figure out, well, what are the overlaps of all these things? When you know your power assets that make up your power portfolio, then your leaders or your date or your friends can know what it is that you bring to the table and align you with more of those opportunities.
- [31:29]
A
And you talk about this in the book, but you can kind of slip them in. You don't have to be like, these are my power assets. You can send an email that's like, oh, this project came up. And because I'm really great at spreadsheets and strategic thinking, I would love to be put on this project.
- [31:42]
B
I am so glad you're mentioning this again. Getting back to what feels cringe or what feels maybe too uncomfortable or like, too much wild courage to be like, I am Liz Moody, and my three power assets are amazing podcast host and really creative and awesome writer. Right. Like, if that doesn't feel natural enough, you're right. You can fit them in anywhere. So I oftentimes give this as interview advice. No matter what the first question is of the interview. Like a good politician, you lead with your power assets question, why do you want this job? Well, I want this job because it aligns with my three strengths. Bop, bop, bop.
- [32:15]
A
Yeah, that's so interesting. I'm also like, you could do that on a date too. I do think that we expect people to know what we are putting out there. And I've learned from doing this job too, and being like, yeah, of course people get that. We put all this effort into this episode and we did this research and we're grounded in science. They don't know unless you tell them.
- [32:34]
B
They don't know unless you tell them.
- [32:37]
A
I think it's just a such a different way of thinking about things. If you're like, I know what's great about me, but like, how do I convey that to other people? That is not bragging. That is not off putting. That is just giving them the information that you want them to know.
- [32:50]
B
It's helpful. Yeah, but people aren't Shameless enough.
- [32:54]
A
Speaking of power assets. Yeah. Mine is curiosity. That's one of my three, for sure. That's, like, why I got into journalism in the first place. It's because I love asking questions.
- [33:02]
B
Your podcast is so good because you get curious about what your audience needs and wants, so you don't focus it on your questions that interest you. You don't even focus it necessarily on, like, how I have framed the book. Most other podcast hosts, like I said, frame it in, like, what's weird, what's selfish, what's nosy. But you've gotten curious. You deeply know your audience, and you've gotten very curious about what would serve them.
- [33:24]
A
You think curiosity is incredibly important. Make the case for why curios is a superpower and how it will help us achieve our dreams in life.
- [33:31]
B
It's what I would call nosiness. It's the courage to dig deeper, to ask something that someone else might not ask. And I have a fascinating story about my love for curiosity and kind of where I learned this. It's from my paternal grandmother who survived the Holocaust. She was in Hungary, Budapest, when the Arrow Cross ruling party, sort of like the Nazi equivalent in Hungary, was roaming the streets. She was in hiding in an attic with other Jews. And she steps out to get a bucket of water. She's the way she told it to me, in her beige recliner in Florida, Hallandale, Florida, when we were recording her whole Holocaust survival story. She said she was literally walking through the streets and walking over dead bodies because they were shooting Jews in the streets. Every time you left, the attic was a risk. And so she and some fellow Jews got rounded up at gunpoint, got marched to a building, as I understand it. And they were in line, and she was thinking, I am going to die. I'm either gonna get shot here, right against this wall, or we are lined up to get on a train to go to Auschwitz or another concentration camp. And she sees this young soldier, this young Arrow Cross party soldier, and he's kind of in charge of making sure they're staying in line. And she realizes her only way out of this situation is curiosity. She said to the soldier, what would happen if I stepped out of line? And his response was this Hungarian idiom, which translates in English to, is the mademoiselle so stupid or just pretending to be? And he said it with a little bit of a chuckle. And what she did, given the lightness in his voice, and she realized he was terrified. He was a kid, this soldier. And so based on his response, which was A result of her curiosity, her courage to ask a question. She stepped out of line and she walked down that cobblestone street and she waited to hear if there was a thud coming after her. And she just kept walking all the way back to the attic and nothing happened. I am alive because she survived the Holocaust. If it weren't for the Holocaust, I wouldn't be alive. It was a terrible situation for my family. She lost her first husband, her brother, her father. So, you know, tons of people in my family were murdered in the Holocaust. But this concept of curiosity and that her only way to survive was not to fight him, not possible, not to just accept it. It was to get curious.
- [35:59]
A
Oh, I have like full shivers. I had full shivers when I read that story in your book. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, it's a crazy story. How can we all apply a little bit more curiosity to our own lives?
- [36:10]
B
Interested people are interesting, right? So if you are in a social situation, a party, on a date, a networking event, and you feel self conscious and you feel like everyone's looking at you, or you don't know what to say, or you don't feel like you belong there, or you're rife with imposter syndrome, get nosy. Ask people about them. People love to talk about themselves. Research shows that the pleasure center in your brain lights up when you are talking about yourself. So if you want someone to like you, let them talk about them. And it can be anything. How do you know the bride? Any questions that start with what or how open up the conversation to expand more versus close it off. So more what and how questions than yes or no questions.
- [36:53]
A
I have a really niche networking question. Sure. But I feel like you're the person to ask this. So you network with somebody, you have like a little conversation, maybe you even like, get their email. You send them one email. How do you, like, keep that connection going to the place where it actually might be useful someday?
- [37:06]
B
I love talking about how to maintain networking and connections long term. I have a tool for it. It's called 666. So. And this isn't in my office.
- [37:16]
A
I knew you would be like the person to ask about. No, because I've always wanted. I'll send like one email back and forth and then I'll never talk to them again.
- [37:21]
B
You know, within six minutes. You want to send an email giving context of where you met them and how lovely it was to meet them. Right. Let's say you saw them speak at an event, you email, you know, ask Them for their email. Find them on LinkedIn. Send a quick DM that says, it was so great to meet you at XYZ event. I was really inspired by what you said about blah, blah, blah, blah. Give them some context about to jog their memory. And that's actually so that when you reach out to them again in the future, they can place who you are and the conversation that you had. You want to.
- [37:49]
A
You want to scroll back in the email and be like, yeah, okay, exactly like, oh, right.
- [37:53]
B
Lay those facts on the ground of who you are and what the conversation was. Then the next six is within six days.
- [38:01]
A
That and the. Wait, that's not too quick where you're like, feel a little thirsty? No.
- [38:05]
B
Okay, well, you know, how do you think I feel about being thirsty? I am all for thirst. Because again, no one's judging you for being thirsty. Maybe that's how you think. Spotlight effect. They see it as proactive. They see it as fast time kills deals. They see it as if I ever want to hire this person for a partnership or as someone on my team and I ask them to do something, guess what? They're going to do it within six minutes, not within 60 days.
- [38:28]
A
Okay.
- [38:29]
B
People respond to speed.
- [38:31]
A
Okay.
- [38:31]
B
Speed is a good thing.
- [38:32]
A
Okay, second six.
- [38:33]
B
Second, six. Six days. Within six days, Tell them that you took some advice that they gave you or you did a thing that you learned in their keynote, or they said something on your podcast as a guest and you put that into action.
- [38:44]
A
Or just like, if you find an article they wrote or you read a book that they wrote and you enact that advice.
- [38:49]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. Let them see you following their advice. That's within six days. And then six months is try to meet with them once every six months. Not everyone you meet, but the people who you intentionally want to keep in your network, you intentionally want to invest in, who could intentionally be mentors to you in the future. Try to meet with them every six months.
- [39:06]
A
And what's the vibe of that meeting? Like, am I coming with questions and, like, kind of annoying them with, like, oh, well, how do you do this? How do you do this? Am I trying to help them even though they might be way ahead of me in their career? That's a. The imbalance always gets in my head where I'm like, I don't have anything to offer you and you have so much to offer me.
- [39:22]
B
Well, it's pushing past the fear that you don't have anything to offer them. Because even just recommending a podcast or an article or a book or your perspective as a woman or your perspective as a 40 year old versus them as a 60 year old is something to offer them. So be specific. What I don't recommend is I just want to pick your brain. What I do recommend is, you know, these are three things I'd love your help with marketing my book when it comes out. Your perspective on X and your perspective on Y.
- [39:50]
A
And you're doing that every six months
- [39:53]
B
for the people that matter.
- [39:54]
A
For the people that matter.
- [39:55]
B
For your network.
- [39:55]
A
Okay, I'm a little scared, but I appreciate why scared. I'm scared because I don't want to annoy people. I'm. I'm nervous about busy, powerful people having limited amounts of time. And especially these days, we're all burnt out, we're all tired. And me being like, I'd like to take some of that very limited amount of time.
- [40:12]
B
People like to be helpful. I find value in being helpful to people and inspiring other people to be better than they think they can be. So it is a gift to me. Even though I get reached out to all the time, I say yes to very few people. Actually. I used to say yes to way more people when I had fewer requests and more time. Supply and demand, right? But I still light up when I can help someone who's 26 and thinking about writing a book. And I know they have the chops. They're proving to me that they already
- [40:43]
A
are investing in themselves, which they're probably sharing their power assets. They're sharing the way they're applying your advice versus just, again, the like, I want to pick your brain. When I first heard about Goodalls, I was like, sure, it's Mac and cheese with slightly better ingredients. What's the big deal? But then I looked at the ingredients list and I was blown away. Each serving, Each serving has 15 grams of protein, 21% of your daily dietary fiber needs, which is insane because none of us are getting enough fiber. And veggies like kale and sweet potato and pumpkin and chlorella. So then I was like, okay, so it's super nutrient dense, but then it probably tastes really terrible, right? Nope, I was so wrong. It tastes exactly like the best box Mac and cheese. The kind that we all grew up eating and loving. But it's actually even better. I am the world's pickiest eater. I have the palate of a five year old and I crave this stuff. This stuff is kid approved. And I say, this is somebody who eats like a kid. It is witchcraft. I genuinely do not know how they do it. It's perfect for those nights when I want something quick and comforting and actually nourishing. My personal favorites are the down the Hatch, which has hatch green chilies. Oh my God, it's so good. And then the classic Cheddimac, which tastes like the cheddar Mac and cheese of your childhood. They also have vegan and gluten free options, which Zach always keeps on hand. There's really fun fancier ones, like they have a cachoe pepe and most flavors are low glycemic, so you get steady energy instead of that carb crash. Plus, it's Clean Label Purity award certified, which means it's been tested for hundreds of contaminants. Also, I have to shout out that you can also just buy the noodles, so you're gonna get a lot of those benefits and then you can use them in any pasta recipe. I am telling you that you need good old's Mac and cheese in your life. Pick some up on your next shopping trip. It's available nationwide at Target, Walmart, and many major grocery stores. Trust me, you and your whole family are gonna love it. I've been drinking Element every single day for literally years. I usually use one packet a day, but I break it up and I kind of spike my water throughout the day. So it makes my water taste amazing and it helps me stay consistently hydrated, which for me means more energy, fewer headaches, and way clearer thinking. That's like, probably the biggest difference I notice is my brain just works so much better. Research actually shows that you hydrate better when you sip throughout the day instead of chugging all at once. And Element makes that so much easier because plain water is honestly so boring and I just will not drink enough of it otherwise. I even use a glass straw because research also shows that you will drink more water if you drink it through a straw. Right now I'm obsessed with the lemonade salt flavor. It's my favorite hands down. Zach and I fight over who gets the last package that we have left. Although I also love watermelon. But like lemonade, it's so good. I also love muddling a few raspberries in a glass and then I'll add the lemonade element and then I'll sip it all afternoon or I'll use it as like a fun little mocktail. Element is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix with no fillers, no dodgy ingredients, and it delivers a powerful dose of sodium, potassium, and magnesium to support hydration. Electrolyte imbalance can cause headaches Fatigue, cramps and brain fog. Things that so many of us deal with daily. You can get a free 8 count sample pack with any order at drink element.com Liz it is totally risk free. If you do not love it, they offer no questions asked refund. So you truly have nothing to lose. Go to drink lmnt.com Liz another one that I'm sure you get pushback on. You think that we need to be more selfish to get ahead in life. What does that look like?
- [44:21]
B
Selfish is the courage to stand up for what you want. Give everyone else a leg up at your expense and you'll end up getting trampled. And it's not redividing the pie, Liz, it's expanding the pie. You had an example of this the other day and we were supposed to record this podcast a few days ago. You sent me a text first thing in the morning. Hey Jenny, I'm so sorry to do this, but I've been up all night sick. And one, I don't want to give you anything. And two, I don't feel in any shape to do our interview in the way it deserves to be done. I'm so excited about this episode and I really want to get it out asap, so I'd love to reschedule. Blah, blah, blah. I saw that. And I would guess, and you can tell me if this is true or not, that you hesitated to send it. That in your sleepless, not feeling well, restless sleep, you went back and forth multiple times. Should I cancel? Should I not? So I would imagine the internal strife that you experienced thinking, how could I do this and be rude and be. Or unprofessional. What if she doesn't get this text before she gets, you know, in the car to go to the airport? I get it at 5:51am oh my goodness, I hope you're fast back asleep. That is the worst feeling. And I'm so glad that you are being selfish. The courage to stand up for what you need. Shameless. The courage to push past any discomfort asking and brutal. The courage to protect your priorities, like not getting sick or will find a new time. No problem. Sending lots of love. So my reaction to that, whereas it maybe felt selfish to you, my reaction was amazing that she asked for what she needed. I cannot imagine how hard it must have been for her to go back and forth and why don't more people do this when they're in a situation where they just need to pivot?
- [46:01]
A
Okay, so if somebody's listening, how can they one, identify the areas in their Life where they may want to be more selfish. And two, push through the barriers that are keeping us from being more selfish.
- [46:10]
B
Yeah. Identifying where in your life is where you feel resentment. Do I feel resentment to my husband? Well, maybe you are working more hours in this particular time in the office, and he's working at home. And, yeah, he should be doing a few more loads of laundry. Right. Like, forget those gender norms. Go ask him to start doing more laundry. In terms of selfishness, the barrier is judgment. You probably thought I might be judging you. You can tell me if I'm wrong.
- [46:40]
A
Oh, yeah, I definitely, like, I never cancel, but I also really wanted to put out a quality episode, both for listeners, but also for. You're flying out to California. You know, you're taking this time, you're taking this energy, and I'm like, I want to make it worth it.
- [46:53]
B
That's it right there. You just nailed it on the head, Liz. People think that selfishness is redividing the pie. A bigger slice for them, a smaller slice for somebody else. But what you just described was actually expanding the pie. The reason you made this call, which was absolutely the right call, was because you know what it takes to produce a good episode. You know what state you, as the host needs to be in to produce a good episode. And you wanted that to be good for your audience. You wanted it to be a good episode. For me, that cancellation expanded the pie.
- [47:22]
A
So the big takeaway is the pie can get bigger. Like, it is not limited amount of pieces, definitely.
- [47:29]
B
Especially if it's cherry pie, which is my favorite.
- [47:31]
A
Make an argument for why being manipulative is a good thing.
- [47:34]
B
Manipulative is the courage to build influence through empathy, to build lasting relationships. Because whether you're selling a product, an idea, or, frankly, yourself, your ability to win friends and allies and supporters is all about mutual benefit. I have this story where I manipulated someone named Vanessa Van Edwards. Her book is right here.
- [47:56]
A
Yeah, she's been on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah.
- [47:58]
B
I'm not talking about nefarious behavior or illegal or illicit or harmful behavior. Right. All of this is tongue in cheek. But I was going to be in Austin for work, and I knew that Vanessa lived there, and so I had a friend connect us over email. I said in the email, vanessa, I'm going to be in Austin on XYZ date. I would love to meet you. And she said, oh, I can't believe the timing. That's the exact date that I'm leaving town. And I said, what time do you depart? Which already is a Little like shameless, right? And a little cringe. And she said, I depart at 1pm Now, I wasn't supposed to get in until 4pm But I said, oh, my gosh, what are the chances I get in at noon? That's perfect timing, because I can meet you when you're getting to the airport. Now, I, of course, then changed my flight for 60 bucks on Delta and then got on that new flight that got in at noon. But I manipulated the situation, because you can't just assume that everything's always going to fall into place. Sometimes you've got to pull some strings. Sometimes you've got to change your flight. To meet Vanessa Van Edwards, we had the most fun conversation. It's the fact that things don't just happen. The cute guy on the subway doesn't happen to notice you. Sometimes you have to manipulate the situation and follow him off the train. A sculptor takes a wet, gray clump of clay and manipulates it into a beautiful sculpture that people enjoy and that brings light to people.
- [49:19]
A
The pushback that somebody might give is like, why does this need to be happening under the surface? Why can't you just say, hey, Vanessa, I'm gonna change my flight if you're willing to meet me at the gate? What's your argument there?
- [49:29]
B
Okay. Because the reality is there are social norms, and even if I feel this way, other people might react differently, so they might feel like I'm putting too much pressure on them. I wanted it to be easy. I wanted it to be light. I wanted it to be fun. I wanted it to be seamless. And that's why I did some of this stuff beneath the surface. Because people don't always need to know how the sausage is made, Right? And especially when it's a new relationship, it's a little bit tenuous. Something that I was not bold about is because I was coming here for a day trip to record, because the only way I could fit it in was to fly in and fly out the same day. I said to your assistant Sophie, I think I could fly in at this time. I can book a hotel room for the day so I can shower and change for the podcast, and then I can go right over to Liz. What I actually wanted to say was, could I shower at Liz's place?
- [50:16]
A
Which we immediately offered.
- [50:17]
B
Exactly. So Austin said, I can book a hotel room.
- [50:20]
A
And we were like, that's insane.
- [50:22]
B
And then Sophie was like, you can totally shower at Liz's place. But we've never met in person. We know each other a little bit. Just like, through the, you know, our author, entrepreneur world. I knew I liked you. I knew that you were gonna be awesome. But it felt like it was too out there, even for me. It felt like asking Liz, can I shower at your place? Was just a little too invasive. And that's a similar reason to why I didn't say, I'll change my flight. I'll pay a fee. I'll come anytime. Vanessa, tell me where you live, I'll show up at your door with cookies.
- [50:49]
A
How do we know when we're in a situation where we should be a little bit manipulative?
- [50:53]
B
The newer the relationship, the more you want to act a little bit more under the surface and pull the strings a little bit more behind the scenes and not necessarily expose every single thing you're thinking. Be strategic.
- [51:05]
A
So next time you'll be like, girl, can I shower your house?
- [51:07]
B
Oh, next time I'll be like, I'm sleeping over. We're sharing a bed.
- [51:10]
A
Can I share the guests? Stay in the guest room. Exactly what is your top tip for manipulating somebody into liking you more?
- [51:15]
B
My top tip for manipulating someone into liking me more is called woo with you. This is where you look at an email you've written and you note how many sentences start with I and how many sentences start with you. And then you try to flip as many as you can from I to you. I had a leader on my team named Annabelle in London, and she was awesome at this. She would go in and do a product training for a team. And of course, our goal with these product trainings was to upsell them to other products at Google. So she showed me these two emails once and showed me how she wooed with you. The first version said, I had so much fun doing this training with you. I really loved your team's questions. I would love to come back and train on this other product. I think that it would be a lot of fun to do that together, right? I, I, I, I, I. And then she said, jenny, this is not what I send. What I send is all of those sentences starting with you. You have an amazing team. You showed so much interest and adaptability to learn this new product today. Your team might benefit from this other product that we have coming out. You would be a great candidate to be in our special beta launch of the product. So same idea, right? Different approach. Woo with you. Woo them to like you, to buy your thing, to invest in you, to be your partner by putting the emphasis on them, not yourself. And I have the most fun example of woo with you from My daughter. Can I share it?
- [52:44]
A
Yeah.
- [52:45]
B
Okay. My daughter loves to write letters, and she has a good friend in school. And so one Sunday, she wrote this letter to her, and I was like, noah, you cannot give this letter to your friend in school.
- [52:58]
A
How old is she?
- [52:59]
B
She's eight.
- [52:59]
A
Okay.
- [53:00]
B
Okay. Dear Emmy, you want to hear the gossip? Well, I think that Blank has a crush on Blank. I also think that Blank is so annoying. I didn't like our sub today. I had gymnastics on Saturday, and I also have it today. It's so tiring. Well, have a good Monday.
- [53:18]
A
Okay, wait, so how does she woo with you?
- [53:20]
B
So I was. First of all, I was like, noah, you cannot.
- [53:24]
A
Not in writing, Noah. Right? There's things you don't put in writing.
- [53:29]
B
Be subtle. Be subtle. You cannot badmouth other people in your class and your sub and talk about who has a crush on who and have that on a piece of paper that's gonna get, like, valuable life lesson. Valuable life lesson gonna fall on the floor. So first, that was the lesson. And I was like, but not only that, you have an opportunity. I literally take out the book. Liz, I am not kidding. I read her a page and a half of this woo with you concept, and. And she's like, ah, I think I get it. And like, Noah's a pretty damn evolved 8 year old. So are you ready to hear her second letter?
- [54:00]
A
Oh, I'm so ready.
- [54:01]
B
Okay. Dear Emmy, I hope your weekend was good. Emmy, I love playing with you. You are a great friend. You cheer for everyone during Skipper of the day. That's a jump rope competition. You do that because you care so much about people. You have a great attitude about everything. You always make me laugh with your funny jokes. I will definitely write to you during our trip around the world.
- [54:21]
A
What do you think of our sub?
- [54:24]
B
Exactly. Because I thought she was terrible.
- [54:28]
A
That was great. She's crushing it.
- [54:30]
B
Isn't that so cool?
- [54:31]
A
Although I'm like, what? Her friend have wanted the tea. Like, I feel like we lost a lot of tea in the second version.
- [54:36]
B
Yeah. So spill the tea. Recess. Verbally, not in writing, please.
- [54:40]
A
What is your top tip for manipulating somebody into doing what you want?
- [54:45]
B
Do the work for them. Liz, I have a client who wants to get a job at a new company, a leadership position, and she's having all these coffee chats, and they're not leading to more connections, which is her intention. And I said, well, are you doing the work for them? When you ask them to make the connection, tell them you've already written the note for Them send them a doc where they can edit, where you write in third person. Hi, I've got this awesome person you should meet. She's really good at bop bop bop Power. Three power assets. Thank you very much. I think you'd really hit it off. I think there'd be mutual value exchange here. I'll let you two take it from here. Even just writing out those five or six sentences has a dramatically increased likelihood of them making that connection. Because people are busy as hell. And so if they have to think about what to write and then they have to. Like I said, my husband always criticizes me for spend the 45 minutes perfecting the email, it's never going to happen. And then you have control, right? You get to link to your LinkedIn, you get to link to your website.
- [55:43]
A
And again, because they might not know the things that are great about you. So you've made it easy. You're saying these are the things that are great about me?
- [55:49]
B
Exactly. And they don't see it as boastful or obnoxious. They see it as helpful and a time saver.
- [55:55]
A
Oh, I love that.
- [55:56]
B
So if you want someone to do something for you, do the work for them.
- [55:59]
A
This is the best advice for jealousy that I think I've heard ever. Don't waste your energy being envious of somebody else's qualities when you could steal them for yourself. This is genius. Can you share examples of this in practice?
- [56:11]
B
In any job, there's so much jealousy, right? What is this person working on? What am I working on? Who's gonna get promoted? How long did it take them to get promoted? Jealousy. Jealousy. Jealousy. Rather than lead with jealousy, ferret out their recipe, like, figure out their secret sauce. So I have two examples of this. One is my colleague Molly, who was so good at project management, and rather than be annoyed that she was so good at that and frankly, everything else, I was like, molly, you're a ninja in project management. Could I set up a couple sessions with you where you teach me how you do this? She's flattered, she's honored, she's happy to help. Google happened to be a place that was highly collaborative and not really cutthroat. And so it was fun for her to teach me. And then it shifted the energy in me from being like, ah, Molly. To like, oh, my gosh, Molly's my favorite person. And now we're now dear friends. Another one was actually my boss named Ted, who was a phenomenal presenter. So rather than, er, why are men so good at presenting? And, like, why are Women always so like, women have to be 2 2x as good at presenting. I was just like, well, what do you do, Ted? And he's like, I watch back every time I present. And he said, I watch for ums. I count my, my number of ums and my filler words. I practice seven times before I do any presentation. I was like, holy shit.
- [57:27]
A
I love that because sometimes we're just like, oh, I'm jealous of them. They're so naturally good at this. And he's like, actually, I put in so much work to be good at this.
- [57:34]
B
Exactly.
- [57:35]
A
That's so interesting.
- [57:36]
B
Exactly. And like I said earlier, you're not born with these skills, but they can be learned. Ted was not born a masterful presenter.
- [57:43]
A
You have this line in the book and I hadn't thought about this until you explicitly said it, but you said, it's not what you do, but what your manager knows that you do. Can you explain that?
- [57:53]
B
Yeah, it's true. It's not what you do, it's what your manager knows you do. And that's both heartbreaking, but a reality. Because whatever you have on your plate, your manager has eight times as much on his or her plate, Everything on their plate, and then everything on the plates of. Let's say they have seven direct reports, so seven plus their own stuff is eight. So you cannot assume that they always know your every move at every point. So how do you solve for that? I have a tool I love called Think Ink Link. And this is how to be really intentional about your weekly one on one with your manager. And if you're not in corporate and you don't have a weekly one on one, apply this to your team, apply this to your entrepreneurship world, apply it to whatever is relevant for you in a work context. But at Google, I would meet with my manager every Tuesday at 11am and I did not just show up without an agenda. I did not just show up ready to shoot the shit. But I will say people did show up like that to me. And the way, way, way more successful ones were the ones who used this Think Inc. Link strategy. So think, spend 30 minutes before that one on one thinking about what you want to cover, then ink in. Just a couple of bullets before the meeting. A few categories. Business people wins operations. And then every maybe six weeks, add career. So business, what are the metrics, what are the projects, what are the updates? Operations, what's going on with process, any dates that need to be changed, et cetera, et cetera, Wins. What clients have you upsold, what new Deals have you closed or whatever the equivalent is of wins in your industry. And then people, what roadblocks do you need removed? How are your relationships going? And then finally career what? What strengths do you want to leverage more? What do you want to be learning? Do you need a mentor? Things like that. So inc. Literally write down some bullets for each of these. And then finally link. Link to actual artifacts of your work. Link to a screenshot of an awesome piece of client feedback from your inbox. Link to a spreadsheet that shows that you're 70% of the way on this analysis for the spring Athleisure line for your marketing campaign. Link to your starter ideas for XYZ project. That is how you enable your manager to know what you're working on, to think of you as a rockstar, to be able to share your work up the chain. And it's different than if you email it to them because this way they have it all in one document. You have a running doc every single week that you use that just has, you know, this week, last week, week before, week before that. And then they can easily go in and find something if they want to talk to their boss about your awesome work. And that's what you want. Getting recognition from bosses up the chain.
- [60:26]
A
I love the idea in general of it's not what you what your manager knows you do in terms of so much of our work behavior, like speaking up in meetings or staying out of, like, the email, busy work and pushing projects forward. Because your manager doesn't know you spent three hours in your email that day. Your manager sees the results.
- [60:45]
B
Yeah. And also, let's say you spent three hours doing something else that felt like busy work or didn't feel productive and you wish you had gotten more done. You feel like there's nothing to show for it because you have to have 16 tabs open and use 19 different tools to accomplish this one thing for the client. Your manager also needs to know that you spent three hours making kind of very little progress because then they can remove those roadblocks. When your manager knows what you're doing, even if it's not like the shiny stuff, even if they just know how you're spending the time, they can actually have empathy for how hard, how fricking hard your job is and try to make your job easier. A good manager is there to coach you to be better than you think you can be and to remove the roadblocks that thwart your success. So you kind of want them to know about the good, the bad, and
- [61:28]
A
the ugly and you are also like bonus when it comes time to ask for a raise. You already have all of this documented. So you've done the work for yourself.
- [61:34]
B
Right? Another way that I recommend documenting this and having the work done for yourself ahead of time is something called a shameless Monday email. So this is 15 minutes every Monday that you write four bullets. This is something that you send over email because then they can CC their boss, they can add 19 other people on this really cool little snippet that you wrote. It's four bullets. Two things that you're proud of from last week and two things you're excited to work on this coming week and use numbers. Be really, really intentional about the information. It doesn't have to be fancy numbers like I made $20 billion or I, you know, increased customer satisfaction by 30% week over week. Right. These numbers can be simple. It can be I reduced this process from a 5 email process to a 3 email process. Awesome.
- [62:20]
A
There are very few skincare products that I think pretty much everybody should have in their routine. And one of them is retinol. It helps with cell turnover and it's just one of the most effective products that exists in terms of making skin look clear, smooth and bright. But a lot of people experience a lot of irritation with different retinols and it absolutely is not helping your skin if you are hurting your barrier layer or drying it out a ton. And it's also really hard to be consistent with skin care if it's making your face flake off. And consistency is the number one thing that gets results. That's why I'm so excited to introduce you guys to osea's Dream Night Serum and Night Cream, which contains bioretinol derived from algae. It's far less irritating than traditional retinol and you can actually use it day or night, which you do not want to do with normal retinol. The serum is clinically shown to improve skin firmness after four weeks. And 100% of testers showed visible improvement in crow's feet and fine lines without irritation. And now they have a bio retinol body serum. This is one of my favorite products that I've seen in a while because I can get the benefits of retinol on my whole body without irritating it or making it more sensitive to sun exposure. My body tends to get a lot more sun exposure than my face, just because, if I'm being honest, I'm worse about sunscreen with it. OSEA is a brand that I hugely believe in. I really stand behind them. Their environmental commitments are so impressive. They are incredibly selective and thoughtful about the ingredients that they use. So they're science backed and they're good for our bodies and they're good for the environment and they're good for our skin. And they also just make products that work. Give your skin a rest with clean, clinically tested skin care from osea. Right now we have a special discount just for our listeners. Get 10% off your first order. Site wide with code Liz Moody at oseamalibu.com that's Liz Moody at o s e a malibu.com you've probably seen red light everywhere lately and honestly I was very skeptical of it. Like, how can one thing help hair growth and skin and period cramps and thyroid health and energy? So I brought Dr. Vivian Chen, who is the founder of Loombox, onto the podcast and she finally explained the science in a way that made it all make sense. The short version red light targets your mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of your cells. So it literally gives your cells more energy to repair, regenerate and function better. That's why you get these localized benefits like less knee pain or better skin or calmer stomach and more systemic energy. In fact, there are over a thousand studies showing benefits from quicker Covid recovery times to healthier thyroid function, to less depression and anxiety, to better joint pain, to skin health and hair health and scalp health and all of these things because the red lights work on the mitochondria in the different places that you put it, and then it's also going to work on your body as a whole. Dr. Vivian gifted me her red light and I dove into the research around it. And then Zach and I both tried it for over six months and I loved it so much that I literally begged her to become a podcast partner so that I could get a discount code for you. I have been gifted so many red lights over the years. It is a perk of this job and this is the only one that I feel like actually helps with those deeper issues. That's because it has something that is called higher irradiance, which is essentially the dose and a metric that a lot of red light companies do not even disclose. And also it uses red light which helps with the surface stuff, like your skin and stuff like that, and near infrared light, which is going to penetrate deeper into your cells. You just put it over whatever area you want to target. So I'll put it over my lower belly to help with period cramps and it makes a huge difference. I Use it for headaches. I'll like put it over my head and it makes them basically go away. It's amazing. Or I'll just sit with my loom box during a short meditation or breath work for mitochondrial support and having it like on my skin, on my face. I've gotten a lot of compliments on my skin health recently and I fully give Lumebox a lot of credit for that. Lumbox is third party tested for radiance. Remember that is the dose, that is the thing that most red light companies are not even testing for, much less disclosing, which is crazy. It's also third party tested for wavelength and it's FDA registered which is so, so rare. I think of a lot of red lights as more like beauty gadgets. And then this is more like a medical device that can also be used for all the beauty purposes too. Plus it's portable so you can use it anywhere on your body and you can also like take it on vacation with you. Now is the perfect time to try Lumebox. You can use my link for 40% off. Just head to theloombox.com Liz that is theloombox.com Liz for 40% off. Not all sourdough is made equal. In fact, most of the sourdough that you get at the grocery store does not have the benefits of sourdough at all. I lived all over the country during nomad life and let me tell you, there are not many bakeries making real sourdough which offers gut benefits, metabolic benefits and more. This is why I cannot stop talking about wild grain. It is the first baked from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas and everything bakes in 25 minutes or less. They use a slow fermentation process for their sourdoughs which makes the nutrients more absorbable and the bread far easier on your digestive system. They're preservative free and they also have gluten free sourdough options which is like a unicorn. It is so good. I have never tried anything like it from anywhere else. The loaf comes ready to bake and frozen so you can just pop it in the oven and you get fresh baked bread. And they also have cookies and croissants and pasta including gluten free pasta which Zach is so, so obsessed with. He is fully gluten free and this pasta has like saved his life. They all have great for you ingredients. They're all ready to just pop in an oven or a pot and it's all baked by small local bakeries around the country, so you are supporting local businesses. Their boxes are fully customizable so you can choose from the variety box, the gluten free box, the vegan box, or their new protein box which is such a great option. There's really nothing like getting to have fresh baked, high quality bread whenever you want. Right now Wild grain is offering $30 off your first box plus free croissants for life. Their croissants are so good and it's so just life enhancing to get to heat up one croissant and have one fresh baked croissant whenever you want it. And the ingredients in these croissants are just phenomenal. Anyways, you can get 30 off your first box plus free croissants for life when you go to wildgrain.com lizmoodie or use code LIZMOODIE at checkout. That's $30 off and free croissants for life at wildgrain.com lizMoodie okay, I have a speed round for you.
- [69:01]
B
Sure.
- [69:02]
A
I'm gonna share outcomes that I hear a lot of listeners often come to me and they say I want these things and I would love your best advice to utilize your very unconventional tactics to get there. Number one, what is the best way to make more money?
- [69:15]
B
Don't just manage up. Manage higher and manage diagonally. Manage higher means build a relationship with your boss's boss. Manage diagonally means build a relationship with your boss's peers. Pick two out of the seven who you think have influence and you also like them because life's too short to meet with someone who you don't like and go get to know them. I also have a guide about how to get promoted which will help you make more money. Can I share a free resource with your audience? It's jennywood.com getpromoted I t s j e n-n y w o d.com getpromoted
- [69:46]
A
and give us a little sneak peek inside of there. What's one way we can get promoted?
- [69:49]
B
Tell your boss along different leadership dimensions, how you were doing a year ago, red, yellow, green and how you're doing now and show improvement on at least a couple of those dimensions.
- [69:59]
A
Oh, so they like see that you're on a growth trajectory.
- [70:02]
B
Exactly. And you're in control. You're manipulating the situation to help them see that you are making progress on these things that they've asked you to make progress on.
- [70:09]
A
Okay, what's the best way to get
- [70:11]
B
a new job, not by just clicking apply on an online job wreck. Especially in this market. I advise having something called a dynamic dozen. The 12 people you want to meet in the next 12 months, you're going to get your next job through your network, not through applying online.
- [70:25]
A
Okay, and how do we find our dynamic dozen?
- [70:27]
B
Well, your boss's boss might be on there. If you're looking for a new job internally at your company, your boss's peers might be on there. And if it's outside of your company, think of friends you used to work with who have moved on to other companies. Start there.
- [70:37]
A
Start like in your network?
- [70:39]
B
Start in your network.
- [70:39]
A
Yeah. Because making these fresh connections, when you're like, especially if you don't have a job at the moment and you're looking to get a new job, making fresh connections feels incredibly overwhelming. But you're like, who's in my world?
- [70:50]
B
Yeah, exactly. Tell aunt Carol, who's always your advocate, and she wants to connect you with, you know, her best friend's son who happened to just go to XYZ company and that's a great connection. Or start with your own friend from high school, your own friend from College. Look on LinkedIn, see who you know and where they are.
- [71:05]
A
Wait, we told one grandma story. There's another grandma story. It's a layoff story and I, I love it. Can you share that story? Yeah, of course.
- [71:12]
B
This is my maternal grandma, Grandma Lila. And she was such a badass Liz. She had these one liners like, no is just an opening offer. Okay. Not only did she agree to be a bridesmaid in my wedding at the age of 88, which is super fun, she was also the CEO of her own financial services company until the age of 92. When John and I first got married, we were apartment hunting in New York. So we were living with her on her pullout couch was a blast for a couple months. And we sit down to dinner and unfortunately, John shares that he's been part of a major company reorg and he's been laid off. So as a newlywed, I'm crushed. But I look across the table at grandma and she's got that gleam in her eye and she drops the classic line, no is just an opening offer. And John and I look at each other trying to silently communicate to grandma that like, this is not how it works. And John says, grandma, I don't think it works that way. A layoff is like a one sided thing. They say, you don't work here anymore. And I say, okay. And that's when Grandma Lila sighs. Sure, it's more comfortable to take no for an answer, but that discomfort will pass. What's the worst that can happen? They've already let you go. You both want something, she said. They want to get stuff done even though they can't afford to pay you. And you want a job because it's easier to get a job when you already have a job. So finally, John relents and half heartedly the next day, goes to his VP and asks to stay on for 10% time and pay. Shockingly, Liz, they accept. Now, I'm not sharing this as some influence tactic per se. The point is Grandma Lila's lesson. Don't let fear shape your decisions. And how often do we do that? Fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, fear of judgment, Fear that we're a little too cringe. Fear that someone might call us manipulative, selfish, shameless, nosy, reckless. But when fear is at the root, that is actually such great news. Because fear you can work with. And when you muster the wild courage to chase what you want in life, you will discover a vital truth. No matter whether you succeed or fail in any one given thing, you will never feel as purposeful, powerful and alive as when you push past that fear to the joy and success on the other side. Because everything you've ever wanted is right there waiting for you on the other side of fear. So reach for it.
- [73:46]
A
I will also say the other lesson in that for me is when you have nothing else to lose, that's when you should go for it. I hear from so many people who are like you, like ready to give up on a friendship, but they haven't even had the conversation with that friend of like, this is really bothering me right now. If you're ready to give up on the friendship, if you're ready to estrange yourself from your parents, have the hard conversation, if you are already laid off, you have nothing left to lose. It is the best time to practice that muscle, to build that muscle of having the harder conversations.
- [74:17]
B
It's such a great way to put it.
- [74:18]
A
I love Grandma Lila. I think she's amazing. I'm just curious. I think there is a lot of like, like uncertain energy in the job market right now. What would you tell people who are scared of losing their job to AI?
- [74:28]
B
For instance, all the stuff that we've been talking about in this conversation is about influence. It's about relationship building. It is about putting yourself in a position to be noticed. Double down on that because the technical skills are going to become less differentiators right? The technical skills are going to become less of differentiators because those are going
- [74:48]
A
to be more easily taken by AI.
- [74:50]
B
Yeah, exactly like those. Technical skills will become commoditized, but you will never be a commodity if you have leadership skills. We're still going to have jobs, right? It's just going to be different types of jobs. But the ones that are never going to go away are the ones of leadership. To get people inspired, to get people aligned, to get people in agreement, to get people to buy something, to sit in the room and to get people excited about something. And that's everything we're talking about today. It's the wild courage to take a little bit more of a risk in how you position yourself and how you show up as a leader, how you show up every day. So I think that anyone living with wild courage is actually exceptionally well positioned to thrive in this age of AI.
- [75:33]
A
And you think people skills are going to become more high value as the execution skills are taken over?
- [75:40]
B
Absolutely. People skills will become more high value as the execution skills are taken over, because that is the only differentiator in this competitive, uncertain job market.
- [75:49]
A
And I do like that because it's, it's action you can take. I think it's very paralyzing for a lot of people. They're like, AI is coming from my job. What do I do? How am I going to make money? Like, the world feels so, so scary. And I like the idea of concrete action. So the concrete action here would be,
- [76:02]
B
what would you say the concrete action is? Follow growth. There are jobs, there are markets that are booming because even though the jobs are changing, there are entire industries that are developing now. So if you're feeling stuck in a rut or stuck in your job, go, follow growth, follow people growth, follow revenue growth, follow industry growth. Follow the roles that are increasing. Because there are still going to be jobs, they're just going to be different.
- [76:25]
A
What would you say to somebody who's like, well, that's all well and good, but all of this growth is in tech. And my job isn't in tech. And I don't really know about tech, nor am I interested in tech.
- [76:33]
B
If you're concerned about job loss or layoffs or AI taking over, all the jobs focus on skills because skills are transferable. Skills are transferable across industry, across role, across domain, across product, across network. And not only that, if you're feeling like you're in a rut, terrified that AI is coming for all of our jobs, learn a new skill. A It's fun. B, it gets you out of that rut. And C, it helps you develop more skills that make you more employable in the future.
- [77:01]
A
Okay, I love that. What's the best way to have more energy?
- [77:04]
B
My husband and I say two things we're grateful for before we fall asleep. And it gives us good energy when we fall asleep.
- [77:09]
A
Okay, I have a question. I've been trying to get my husband to do that with me for, like, 10 years, and he's like, not down. Was your husband down right away?
- [77:17]
B
We decided on this as a minchag, which is the Yiddish word for ritual, the day we got engaged. And so it's just kind of stuck. He actually remembers it more than I do. Sometimes I'm asleep when he's like, I'm grateful for.
- [77:31]
A
I'm like, I'm grateful.
- [77:33]
B
And mumble. Mumble my answers.
- [77:35]
A
How specific are you?
- [77:36]
B
Pretty specific. It's never like, I'm grateful for my health. I'm grateful for our kids. It's always, I'm grateful that I did carpool pickup today because it was really fun to watch Noah at gymnastics.
- [77:49]
A
I love that. Okay, what is the best way to get a mentor?
- [77:52]
B
I would argue, don't get a mentor, get a sponsor. Mentors guide careers. Sponsors shape careers. Mentors. You go to and tell them everything you're feeling. Sponsors. You're a little bit more picky and choosy about what you want to share with them. Sponsors are the ones who are in more of a position of power. They might influence your promotion or what projects you get. Again, this might be your boss's boss or your boss's peers, and the sponsor is going to say, hey, you know who's really been showing up a lot and with exceptional leadership skills? Liz Moody. We should be considering her for the next promotion.
- [78:23]
A
Wait, so how do we get a sponsor?
- [78:25]
B
Okay, so to get a sponsor, be really specific in the ask. You don't ask the hey, can I pick your brain Question. You compliment them about something awesome they did recently. As a leader, you ask for the time, right? Sometimes these leaders have office hours. You can easily sign up through their admin. You send an email 24 hours before the meeting saying, these are the three things I want to talk about in this conversation and then make a slide. Right? Number one, your background. How long have you been at this company? Where were you before this company? Maybe some accomplishments, right? You are doing a particularly great job in XYZ project. And then finally, a request of them. Are they willing to meet with you quarterly to help partner with you on your next growth opportunities at this company.
- [79:07]
A
And they might say yes to that?
- [79:08]
B
Absolutely. I have said yes to so many people who have done that. And I say no to the people who say, can I pick your brain? Or I'd love 30 minutes or I'd love to brainstorm. I want to know exactly how I can help them. Here's the thing. Leaders also want to be valuable and can get imposter syndrome and insecure about whether they're adding value. And how do leaders add value? By helping people, by coaching people, by inspiring people. So I want to know exactly how I can help you. Otherwise I'm not gonna enjoy that meeting. I have been in 30 minute meetings where by minute 28, I'm like, did I miss what the request was? Do you want headcount? Do you want feedback? Do you want a shoulder to cry on?
- [79:45]
A
Like, help me help you out.
- [79:47]
B
Help me help you.
- [79:48]
A
What's the best way to make friends as an adult?
- [79:51]
B
To make friends as an adult. Stop prioritizing work over friendships. And man, am I guilty of this. Recently I was asked to do a book club in the evening. And that's work. I love it. It's a group of people who wanna read my book and they wanted me to come and and virtually do a live conversation. How could I say no to that? But I also had already RSVPDs to a friend's Galentine's day party. I know her and maybe one other person going, but there were 30 people on the invite who are local in my community. And I historically have not been great about prioritizing friendships. So this was an opportunity to meet 27 new people, 30 new people, and to get to know them and maybe come out of there with one new relationship. One person in my city, in my town, who I really enjoyed. And these friendships are not going to fall in your lap. You have to be intentional. You have to say yes to things. You have to be specific when you ask a friend to hang out rather than, oh, let's have coffee sometime.
- [80:45]
A
Okay, I love that. What's the best way to turn busy work into productive work? That's like the get out of our emails to do the stuff that actually moves the needle.
- [80:53]
B
Be mindful of how much you're saying yes to the big and no to the small. What's big? The marquee marketing project or getting your third graders really good test scores. What's small? Showing up for every meeting where you neither add value nor derive value, and always raising your hand to organize the company picnic. Or the PTA meeting or whatever it is. Well, these small things add up to be a ton of your time. And these small things are what I call nap work, not actually promotable work. Don't do more than 10% nap work because nobody ever got promoted for being responsive to email or showing up to meetings.
- [81:31]
A
Oof, that's so interesting. I also feel like there's something for life there about determining which are the big things and which are the small things and acting accordingly. I think we lose a lot of energy to acting like the small things
- [81:42]
B
are big things for sure. Decisions, friendships, fights, tiffs with your partner. Right. Like, make those things small. Grandma Lila. Another one liner. She would always say, shrink it down, make it small.
- [81:53]
A
Ugh, I love that. I love Grandma Lila. Okay, what is the best way to make a big decision?
- [81:57]
B
This gets back to breaking it down from big scary decision to the four types of risk. Physical, emotional, financial, and mental. And then rank those 1 to 3. You'll be in a very different position from a fear standpoint than if you just thought of it as big risk. Leave my job, be an entrepreneur, et cetera.
- [82:15]
A
What's the best way to get out of a slump?
- [82:17]
B
Be reckless. Err on the side of action. Action not thinking provides clarity. Work for 30 minutes on the thing that scares you most, the thing that will actually move the needle in life, whether it's a house remodeling project or a breakfast you're organizing or signing up for a couple dating apps because you are in a slump that you're single or building. My next keynote because I worry about whether it's going to be the exact right fit for the client and the audience's needs. Do that thing that scares you. Be reckless. And spend 30 minutes sinking your teeth into the new project.
- [82:48]
A
This can be in any realm of your life, but we like to ask everybody, what's one habit that changed your life?
- [82:54]
B
It cost me $10 and it was buying an alarm clock. So I didn't have to charge my phone in my room. And now I have no excuse to not charge my phone in my room. I actually charge it on a different floor of my house. I got this advice from my boss, Michelle. She said if you have multiple floors, charge it on a different floor. If you're one floor, charge it in the farthest room. But buying that $10 alarm clock means that I have no excuse to have my phone in my room, which of course means that I read it first thing in the morning before I'm even conscious.
- [83:23]
A
Yeah, I always say the World's best engineers have made this phone the most addictive that they can possibly make it with their skillset. They're so skilled and they have made this phone so addictive. And we're just supposed to sit here with like our normal person willpower and have that stand in the way of that? That's insane.
- [83:40]
B
It's a great way to.
- [83:41]
A
It's like running a race against an Olympian and just be like, nobody's asking me to do that. If somebody wants to do one thing after they turn off this podcast and experience a surge of success, like, instant result, what this woman is talking about is working. Can you give us one thing that we can try the second we turn off this podcast?
- [83:59]
B
Send one text to somebody asking for something.
- [84:03]
A
Anything, Anything.
- [84:04]
B
Ask a new friend for coffee. Ask your husband to do more laundry. Email your boss and ask if they'd be supportive of you setting up time with their boss. Ask somebody for something.
- [84:14]
A
And what traits does that exemplify? And why is that gonna make us feel better and make us closer to the life of our dreams?
- [84:21]
B
Almost all of them. But nosy. The courage to get insatiably curious. Reckless. The courage to err on the side of action. Selfish. The courage to stand up for what you want. Shameless. The courage to stand behind your efforts and abilities and your just general awesomeness. If you're trying to make a new
- [84:36]
A
friend, you do this thing throughout the book where you, like, have the original definition of these traits and then you share your redefined version. Can you do that for us? For cringe? What is cringe in the way of the public perception? And then how do you think we should redefine Cringe?
- [84:50]
B
Cringe. Current definition. The physical or emotional reaction to social awkwardness or try too hard energy. Cringe. Redefined is living a life of wild courage. Being bold and going after what you want and getting it. Doing things that you know will move you forward to help you achieve more success, more potential, a fuller, richer life without the fear of judgment, without the fear of uncertainty, and without the fear of failure.
- [85:22]
A
Let's all be more cringe. Jenny, this is absolutely wonderful. I have been asking myself since I read your book, like, what would Jenny do? Moment to moment in my life? It's already enhanced my life. If people wanna find wild Courage, where can they find it? And also if people want more from you, where can they find you?
- [85:37]
B
You can find the book anywhere books are sold. It's available in all formats, hardcover, ebook, audiobook. I also have this awesome say no guide because it's really hard to be brutal and to say no to meetings, projects and favors. You can find that at itsjennywood.com SayNo I T S J-E-N-N-Y.com SayNo and I'd love to come to anyone's organization and do a keynote or partner with you on a way to help your organization feel more empowered, feel more like they can tap into their own wild courage to go after what you want and get it.
- [86:10]
A
Amazing. Well, thank you so much Jenny. This was wonderful.
- [86:13]
B
Thanks for having me Liz.
- [86:14]
A
That is all for this episode of the Liz Moody Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would so appreciate if you would share it with somebody that you think would love it too. It is my goal to get as much life changing information out to as many people as possible and you sharing episodes with people is a hundred percent the thing that makes that happen. I would also love to hear from you in the comments any thoughts or questions or opinions that you have on this episode. Make sure that you're subscribed to the podcast on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube, wherever you like to listen. You can find every single discount code that you heard in this episode and tons more@lismoodie.com codes. It is the best way to save money on amazing vetted products. Truly, our brand partners make the best products in the world. That is why they're our beloved brand partners and it's the best way to support the show and keep it completely free for you. And we so appreciate it. Okay, I love you and I will see you on the next episode of the Liz Moody Podcast. Oh, just one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, a psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack sponsor. One of the easiest microhabits to change your diet is to stop giving yourself the unhealthy option. The option you don't want to reach for in the first place. Because on days when I'm running around non stop, I am not thoughtfully planning snacks. I am grabbing whatever's quickest. And that usually means something that is loaded with sugar and additives. It's not going to make me feel good because that's just like what you can buy when you're out these days. So the key is to plan ahead. And I do that by keeping IQ bars in my car and in my bag. So no matter how busy the day gets. 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