Podcast Summary: "A Land of Giants"

The Lord of Spirits
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Date: November 26, 2020
Theme: The Seen and Unseen World in Orthodox Tradition, focusing on the biblical giants (Nephilim), their origins, significance, and how this theme is woven through the history, ritual, and theology of the ancient and Orthodox Christian worlds.

Overview

This episode delves deep into the enigmatic biblical topic of giants—famously known as the Nephilim—and their origins as described in Genesis 6. Hosts Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen break down what the Bible, Second Temple literature, and ancient parallels have to say about these beings, exploring their spiritual significance, the rituals that produced them, how biblical and ancient cultures understood them, and their relevance for Christian theology and salvation history. The discussion addresses interpretive controversies within the Church, the role of the Nephilim/giants in spiritual warfare, and their legacy within the Orthodox tradition.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are the Nephilim? (00:00–14:00)

• The Nephilim are introduced as "giants" in Genesis 6, mysterious beings resulting from the union of the "sons of God" and daughters of men.
• The term "Nephilim" means “giants”—this is reinforced by ancient translations (Septuagint renders it as "gigantes") and by cognate Aramaic terms.
• The hosts critique modern conspiracy theories and misreadings, arguing for a scholarly, context-sensitive approach.
• Notable quote (Fr. Stephen, 10:29):
  "In Aramaic, the word nephilin...means 'giants.' It's very simple."
• The Septuagint’s translation underlines that early Jews understood Genesis 6 as referring to angels and to literal giants.

2. Giants, Ancient Myths, and the Spiritual World (14:00–36:00)

• Ancient flood myths are universal; Genesis speaks within a larger cultural context where floods and giants were well known.
• Almost every ancient civilization told stories of an antediluvian (pre-flood) civilization, which was advanced and taught by semi-divine or spiritual beings (e.g., Babylonian apkallu, Greek Prometheus).
• “Culture hero” concept: Ancient kings and post-flood dynasts claimed access to lost pre-flood knowledge through spirit communication.
• These gifts were not benign; they included metallurgy, music, sorcery—ways in which forbidden knowledge led to mankind’s corruption.
• Notable quote (Fr. Andrew, 29:01):
  "Cain's line doesn't just come up with weapons of war—they also come up with music and architecture... It's that mankind wasn't ready for them yet."
• Pagan myths cast the gods who gave secret knowledge as heroes, but the biblical tradition views them as demons intent on destruction.

3. Ritual, Idolatry, and the Origin of Giants (36:00–55:00)

• The “Nephilim ritual”: In ancient pagan societies, kings ritually embodied deities in temple rites—engaging in sexual union with temple slaves or prostitutes, aiming to create semi-divine offspring.
• The result: The production of "giant" kings viewed as 2/3 divine, 1/3 human (e.g., Gilgamesh). Such persons became "fully demonized"—the opposite of theosis.
• These rituals served both as idolatry and as a means to spread demonic influence.
• Notable quote (Fr. Stephen, 55:13):
  "They're trying to create their own image... their own image and likeness who will bring their will and desires into the world... an anti-theosis."

4. Giants After the Flood & Warfare in the Old Testament (72:00–91:00)

• The giants reappear after the flood; the text of Genesis and further books (Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua) identify whole clans/tribes as “giants”—Amorites, Rephaim, Anakim, etc.
• Membership in these clans was defined not biologically, but by ritual participation—these were initiatic, often brutal societies engaged in idolatrous, demonic acts (cannibalism, human sacrifice).
• The biblical wars against giant clans (e.g., Joshua’s conquest) were aimed at eradicating these destructive, demonized practices, not “genocide” in a modern, ethnic sense.
• Israelites waging war against giants were forbidden to take spoils—underlining this was not conquest for gain, but a divinely-mandated purging of evil.
• Notable quote (Fr. Stephen, 88:31):
  "They [Israelites] weren’t allowed to take any of the spoils... it was all considered accursed."

5. Spiritual Meaning and the Legacy of Giants (138:00–147:00)

• Giants represent ultimately what Orthodox theology would call "anti-theosis": human beings so debased by sin and demonic participation that they become, in every way but essence, demons.
• The unclean spirits that Christ encounters in the Gospels (e.g., the Gerasene demoniac) are seen in ancient interpretation (see 1 Enoch) as the disembodied spirits of dead giants.
• The ultimate spiritual war is not allegorized in Orthodox reading—the biblical wars against giants are profoundly literal forms of spiritual warfare against demonic forces.

6. Patristic Interpretation & Controversy (149:00–181:00)

• Up until the 4th–5th centuries, most Church Fathers and Second Temple literature read Genesis 6 as angels (fallen spirits) begetting giants via corrupt human ritual.
• Notable Patristic Quote (St. Irenaeus, 161:56):
  "Angels were united with the daughters of mankind, and they bore to them sons, who for their exceeding greatness were called giants... angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness..."
• Later fathers, influenced by Rabbinic Judaism and changing social conditions (paganism waning), began to interpret “sons of God” as the descendants of Seth (the “Sethite hypothesis”)—a view not reflected in earlier tradition.
• No Ecumenical Council or liturgical text ever dogmatized one interpretation over another.

7. The Problem of Violence and Innocence (91:34–98:00)

• Ethical difficulties about the fate of innocents in the episodes of the conquest are addressed through the lens of eternal life, judgment, and the mercy of God—death as deliverance from the formation of further sin.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Linguistic Determination of “Nephilim”

• (10:29, Fr. Stephen):
  “In Aramaic, the word nephilin...means ‘giants.’ It’s very simple.”

What Is the Nephilim Ritual?

• (41:49, Fr. Stephen):
  "On the bed is... the king as the high priest of the religion would ritually embody the god... ritually have intercourse with a temple slave or a temple prostitute..."

The Saint vs the Giant

• (55:13, Fr. Stephen):
  “They're trying to create their own image... their own image and likeness who will bring their will and desires into the world... an anti-theosis... the opposite of a saint.”

On the Meaning of Spiritual Warfare

• (99:54, Fr. Stephen):
  "This is described in spiritual warfare terms, that's not an allegorization, that's what they're presenting."

On Orthodox Spiritual Life

• (139:19, Fr. Andrew):
  "We sometimes in the Orthodox Church talk about monastics living the angelic life... they functionally become angels..."

On Interpreting Difficult Passages

• (98:28, Fr. Andrew):
  "If I can stop assuming... that I'm just smarter and better informed than everyone who lived before me for thousands of years, then maybe there's something there that we can come away with."

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |--------------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–14:00 | Genesis 6 and the real meaning of Nephilim | | 14:00–36:00 | Flood myths, pagan parallels, and forbidden knowledge | | 36:00–55:00 | Temple ritual, idolatry, and the “creation” of giants | | 72:00–91:00 | Giants after the Flood, warfare, and ritual identity | | 138:00–147:00| Legacy of giants: spiritual meaning and demonic spirits| | 149:00–181:00| Patristic controversy and modern misunderstanding |

Conclusion & Core Takeaways

• The biblical theme of giants is not a marginal or mythological “leftover,” but a core illustration of the tragic consequences of fallen spiritual powers corrupting humanity and of the mission of God’s people—in the Old and New Testaments—to war against these powers.
• Giants embody, in a spiritually concrete way, anti-theosis: the ultimate falling away from God such that a human being becomes demonic in character, and even after death, persists as a demonic spirit.
• The Orthodox tradition encompasses a diversity of interpretations—with early Fathers universally holding to the angelic origin of giants, later Fathers offering metaphorical readings influenced by cultural changes but no dogmatic conclusion.
• The core spiritual message: salvation in Christ is rescue from becoming like demons, being instead divinized and restored in the image of God.
• (202:43, Fr. Stephen):
  “This is the core: despite our sin and wickedness... Christ still loved us enough to come and die and rescue us, to redeem us and buy us back so we could become sons of God... this shows us what we’re saved from.”

This episode is essential listening for those interested in biblical anthropology, spiritual warfare, and the mystical reading of scripture in the Orthodox tradition. It combines deep scholarship with a lively, sometimes humorous tone, perfect for listeners ready to venture into the stranger and more challenging parts of the Bible.