Podcast Summary

The Lord of Spirits

Episode: Fall of Man Part 1: Garments of Skin

Date: July 14, 2022
Hosts: Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick & Fr. Stephen De Young
Podcast Description: Exploring the seen and unseen world in Orthodox Christian tradition, focusing on the union of material and spiritual realities.

Episode Overview

This episode inaugurates a three-part series on the Fall of Man, focusing first on the theme of death—how it entered into human experience, what it means according to Orthodox Christian tradition, and why, counterintuitively, death is ultimately a gift from God. The hosts examine the interplay between the visible and invisible creation in Genesis, challenge common Western misconceptions about the fall, and discuss how the consequence of death reorients humanity toward its original destiny in God. The title "Garments of Skin" points to how humanity's mode of existence changed after expulsion from paradise.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Series on the Fall

• The Fall is explored in three elements: death, sin, and domination by demonic powers (06:09).
• This episode begins with "death" because it’s the first and foundational consequence of the Fall.

2. Genesis 1–3: Creation and the Structure of Reality

• Temple Imagery in Genesis:
  • Creation is presented as the building of a cosmic temple, with the seventh day being God’s enthronement and resting (07:17).
• Order and Life:
  • First three days: Establishing order; next three days: Filling with life; the Garden is a microcosm of both (08:48).
  • Humanity's vocation: Continue the work by "filling and subduing" the earth—bringing divine life into ordered creation (09:48).
• Visible and Invisible Creations:
  • Genesis describes both, even if not explicitly; visible (material) and invisible (spiritual) realms are created together and intertwined (11:11–15:10).
  • Angels are created within the seven days framework, most likely on Day 1, 2, or 4, according to various patristic sources (15:41–19:09).

3. Challenging Popular but Flawed Narratives

• No “Pre-Fall War in Heaven”:
  • The hosts critique the common belief, originating in John Milton’s Paradise Lost, that the devil fell before the creation of the world (13:12–14:09).
  • Biblical narrative actually locates the fall of the devil in parallel with or immediately following the fall of man (Genesis 3) (15:29–27:17).
• “Fall” Means More Than Becoming Evil:
  • In Orthodox tradition, "fall" means being cast down or expelled, not simply flipping from “good” to “evil” (25:49–27:17).
  • The devil is thrown out of the presence of God; likewise, Adam and Eve are expelled from Paradise (26:33–27:29).

Memorable Quote:

“For the devil, as glorious a creature as he was, was going to end up less glorious than humanity.” (56:33)

4. Scriptural and Patristic Insights on Angelic Falls

• Patristic Consistency:
  • St. Andrew of Caesarea & Dr. Jeannie Constantinou: The devil is cast down after creation, not before (34:22–35:32).
  • Multiple scriptural references (Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, Revelation 12) understand the devil's fall as related to events in Eden (35:52–39:12).
• Identity of ‘The Devil’:
  • Some texts distinguish between ‘devil’ and ‘Satan’ as possibly different beings; St. Andrew of Caesarea sees them as the same being falling in different senses (39:45–41:24).

5. Nature of the Devil's Rebellion

• Not an attempt to “overthrow” God (as in pagan myths), but to redirect worship and devotion toward himself out of envy for humanity’s destiny (55:22–56:38).
• The devil seeks to destroy humans’ unique potential for union with God—a destiny even higher than that of the angelic hosts (56:06–56:38).

Notable Exchange:

• Fr. Andrew: “He chooses to try to destroy the human creatures who do.”
• Fr. Stephen: “Yeah. So that they don't get there. And that they follow him into his misery.” (56:57–57:03)

6. Expulsion from Paradise and the Gift of Death

• Expulsion for Protection—not Punishment:
  • After acquiring the “knowledge of good and evil,” remaining in paradise would have meant immortal but wicked humanity—effectively, demons (68:12–69:16).
  • Instead, God compassionately exiles humanity to prevent this, introducing mortality (70:04).
• Physical vs. Spiritual Death:
  • St. John of Damascus:
    • Physical death = separation of soul from body.
    • Spiritual death = separation of soul from God (74:55–75:10).
  • Physical death is the result and image of an already-occurring spiritual death (83:06).

Memorable Quote:

"The spiritual death is the real death... that's what begins the dying process. And the physical death is a consequence, an image of the real death that's already happened." (83:45–84:04)

7. Garments of Skin vs. Fig Leaves

(Question segment at 84:31 from listener Kyle)

• Figs leaves: Attempt to cover newfound shame after loss of innocence (90:00–91:00).
• Garments of Skin: Not about appeasing God’s wrath or a literal animal sacrifice for leather clothing; rather, a metaphor for a changed human condition—now mortal, like animals (88:18–89:02, 96:16–98:07).
• God’s making garments of skin for them illustrates how mortality and passion now become the mode of human existence.

8. Human Nature, Passions, and Mortality

• Body as Collection of Powers:
  • Human body = collection of powers, not merely a physical “object” (109:25–113:07).
  • Humanity’s powers are aimed at a divine destiny—the osis, or participation in God (114:24–118:04).
• Passibility:
  • After the fall, humans become ‘passible’—subject to the passions, including both blameless (hunger, fatigue) and blameworthy (greed, wrath, envy) ones (133:39–134:57).

9. Purpose of Human Life after the Fall

• Death as a Gift:
  • Mortality introduces possibility for repentance and change. We are not eternally stuck in our sins (151:06–152:54).
  • “This life has been given to you for repentance.” (152:03, referencing St. Isaac the Syrian)
• Hopeful Vision:
  • Orthodox anthropology affirms that our identity/humanity is always “in the future,” always becoming, not settled in “this is who I am” (128:25–129:56).
  • Repentance is both cleansing from passions and a pressing forward to become like God/Christ (142:03–143:05).

Notable Quote:

“We have to understand this question correctly. And then that allows us to act as God acts. ... If we approached all of our enemies … including ourselves in that way, the world would be a very different place.” (148:31–148:58)

Notable Quotes and Moments with Timestamps

• On Death's Purpose:

  • “Death is actually a gift from God. Now, it comes with a lot of problems … but if we understand that the mutability that comes with death … is actually a tool that’s been added to our toolkit, then it’s a profoundly hopeful realization.” (151:17–152:03)

• On Human Identity:

  • “Our human identity, as we were made to be, is something that is always in the future. Because we, being finite, will never arrive at being God.” (126:28–126:41)

• On Repentance and Change:

  • “The devil spends his time when we fall telling us not to get up. ... Because the thing he's hated about humanity since the very beginning is that we're capable of making that progress.” (130:53–131:10)

• On the Garments of Skin:

  • “His mode of existence now becomes mortal. It becomes deathly.” (88:52–89:02)

• On Image and Likeness:

  • “The image in which we're created is also the goal. ... They're both God. The image of God and the likeness of God.” (126:01–126:24)

Key Takeaways for Listeners

• The Fall is not just about humanity “becoming bad” but being exiled from God’s presence for our protection, introducing death and mortality as a hopeful, purifying gift.
• Human beings were created with a destiny beyond even that of the angels: union with God (theosis).
• After the Fall, mortality allows for repentance and real change, orienting us again to our divine destiny.
• Our challenge is not merely “avoiding sin” but actively pursuing likeness to God—participating in His energies, love, and life.
• All other philosophies can teach self-mastery, but only Christ can unite us with God and fulfill human destiny.

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Genesis as Temple: 07:17–09:48
• Angels created in Genesis: 15:29–19:09
• Milton and the fall of the devil: 13:12–14:09
• Physical vs. Spiritual death: 74:55–84:04
• Garments of skin and mortality: 88:18–89:02; 96:16–98:07
• Purpose and identity of man: 114:24–118:04; 126:01–129:56
• Repentance and theosis: 131:10–143:10
• Death as a hopeful tool: 151:06–152:54

Tone & Style

The hosts combine scholarly depth with a conversational, often humorous and approachable tone. Pop culture jokes (Billy Zane, Star Trek, Milton-bashing), patristic/Orthodox references, and personal anecdotes enliven profound theological discussion.

Conclusion

Death, as received in the Orthodox Christian tradition, is less a punishment than a merciful remedy—a means allowing human beings, wounded by sin, to still press forward into an ever-surpassing union with God. The “garments of skin” image, then, is not about appeasing God’s wrath, but joining the mission of redemption, restoring the possibility of hope, change, and eternal destiny in Christ.

“We’ve set our sights too low for too long ... we need to set our sights beyond just making it through this day ... and to actually being faithful, to encountering and becoming more like Christ.” (162:29–162:56)