42:I[185,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jo3du-icy6v2.js","/_next/static/chunks/15cy49d~_zsjj.js","/_next/static/chunks/0..ktetnpeix7.js","/_next/static/chunks/08cz-ztcfuxe..js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"SendEmailButton"] 44:I[63625,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jo3du-icy6v2.js","/_next/static/chunks/15cy49d~_zsjj.js","/_next/static/chunks/0..ktetnpeix7.js","/_next/static/chunks/08cz-ztcfuxe..js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"AddToLibraryButton"] 45:I[29721,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jo3du-icy6v2.js","/_next/static/chunks/15cy49d~_zsjj.js","/_next/static/chunks/0..ktetnpeix7.js","/_next/static/chunks/08cz-ztcfuxe..js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"ShareButton"] 46:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jo3du-icy6v2.js","/_next/static/chunks/15cy49d~_zsjj.js","/_next/static/chunks/0..ktetnpeix7.js","/_next/static/chunks/08cz-ztcfuxe..js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 47:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/08z4tkzvltetr.js","/_next/static/chunks/121~yigv24_j6.js","/_next/static/chunks/0jo3du-icy6v2.js","/_next/static/chunks/15cy49d~_zsjj.js","/_next/static/chunks/0..ktetnpeix7.js","/_next/static/chunks/08cz-ztcfuxe..js","/_next/static/chunks/0i6hzvr84kc1r.js"],"SignupCTA"] 3a:["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2026-06-03T05:00:00.000Z","children":"June 3, 2026"}] 3b:["$","span",null,{"aria-hidden":true,"children":"·"}] 3c:["$","span",null,{"children":"01:12:25"}] 43:T54d,

The transformations of European politics over the past twenty years, including Britain’s vote to leave the EU and the rise of post-Soviet strongmen, are often explained as part of a ‘wave’ of populism. But as Jan-Werner Müller argues, populism is best understood as a form of politics that claims to represent the ‘real’ people and delegitimise its opponents, rather than a catch-all way to describe far-right and left-wing movements.

In this episode, Müller talks to James Butler about why misleading interpretations of populism have proved so dangerous for traditional parties, and the role of technocracy and digital platforms in the rise of anti-democratic politics.

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