Danny Elfman | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

Podcast Summary: Danny Elfman on The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Release Date: August 6, 2025

In the latest episode of The Magnificent Others, host Billy Corgan engages in an in-depth conversation with the legendary composer Danny Elfman. This episode delves into Elfman's multifaceted journey from his early days in street theater to becoming a renowned film composer, exploring the challenges, triumphs, and personal reflections that have shaped his illustrious career.

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Early Beginnings and Street Theater

Danny Elfman's artistic journey commenced in the vibrant world of street theater. Early on, he was deeply influenced by diverse musical traditions, particularly West African highlife music and the rhythmic complexities of ska.

"I was a street musician for years," Elfman reminisces (00:16), highlighting his foundational experiences. These formative years were marked by the creation of the Mystic Knights, a theatrical troupe that infused music with performance art. Working closely with his brother, Elfman honed his skills in percussion and multi-instrumental arrangements, laying the groundwork for his future endeavors.

Formation of Oingo Boingo

Transitioning from street theater, Elfman co-founded Oingo Boingo, a band that became synonymous with the new wave movement of the late 1970s and 1980s. Despite their innovative approach, the band faced commercial challenges and logistical difficulties, particularly with extensive touring.

Elfman reflects on the band's dynamics and his personal struggles with the rigors of band life:

"I realized I'm just not meant to be in a band," he admits (35:25), describing his desire to pursue a more solitary and creative path.

Transition to Film Scoring

A pivotal moment in Elfman's career was his collaboration with director Tim Burton. This partnership began with the cult classic "Pee Wee Herman", which Elfman scored after being personally recommended by Paul Reubens and Tim Burton.

"When I sat down to write the first note, I was like, wait, wait," Elfman shares (41:44), emphasizing the abrupt shift from composing for a band to orchestrating scores for films. This transition was initially met with skepticism within Hollywood, as the industry was unsure how to integrate his unique style into mainstream cinema.

Breakthrough with Tim Burton’s Films

Elfman's collaboration with Burton flourished, leading to iconic scores for "Beetlejuice", "Batman", "Edward Scissorhands", and "Nightmare Before Christmas". These works not only solidified his reputation but also showcased his ability to blend whimsical melodies with dark, gothic undertones.

"Every film I worked on with Tim opened more doors," Elfman explains (44:00), underscoring the exponential growth of his career through these high-profile projects.

Challenges and Typecasting in Hollywood

Despite his success, Elfman grappled with being typecast as a composer for quirky comedies, a label he found incongruent with his affinity for horror and fantasy genres.

"They were getting the vibe of what you were putting out. That is so cool hearing that," Jordan Peele remarks (00:29), highlighting the recognition Elfman received even amidst typecasting. However, Elfman often found himself constrained by industry expectations:

"I don't believe that I'm just the composer," he states (01:41), expressing his desire to break free from being pigeonholed and to explore broader creative horizons.

Isolation and Networking in Hollywood

Elfman's success came with a degree of isolation. Unlike other creatives who thrive on networking, Elfman preferred solitude, finding it challenging to connect with peers outside of his immediate professional circle.

"I've lived most of my life as a recluse," he confides (01:56), explaining that his interactions in Hollywood were typically limited to directors and editors, rarely branching out beyond this core group. This self-imposed isolation was both a barrier and a shield, allowing him to focus intensely on his compositional craft.

Venturing into Classical Music

In recent years, Elfman has ventured into the classical music realm, undertaking commissions to compose concertos and other orchestral works. This new chapter represents a significant evolution in his career, driven by a desire to challenge himself and expand his musical repertoire.

"I need to do this for me," Elfman asserts (46:12), emphasizing his personal motivation behind embracing classical composition. Despite lacking formal training, his dedication led him to self-educate, immersing himself in the works of maestros like Stravinsky, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich.

Reception and Future Aspirations

Elfman’s foray into classical music has been met with mixed but increasingly positive reviews. While classical critics have been initially skeptical, the quality and innovation of his compositions are garnering appreciation.

"I got some good reviews on this new release from Sony Classical," he notes (54:29), indicating a growing recognition of his efforts in this genre. Looking forward, Elfman expresses a desire to continue this path:

"My goal is to make it nine more years," he candidly shares as he approaches his 71st birthday (54:47), reflecting on both his achievements and his enduring passion for music.

Personal Reflections and Legacy

Throughout the conversation, Elfman reflects on his legacy and the emotional connections his music fosters among audiences, including his own family.

"Nothing makes me happier in my life than hearing stories like, you just told me about your kids," Elfman expresses gratitude (67:44), underscoring the profound impact his work has on listeners across generations. He fondly recalls moments when his compositions resonated with fans in ways he hadn't anticipated, such as his music being enjoyed by the children of his colleagues.

Influence and Hope for Classical Music

Elfman hopes to bridge the gap between classical music enthusiasts and new audiences, aiming to infuse classical performances with the same whimsy and accessibility that characterize his film scores.

"I try to write music that is simple enough for someone who listens to film music to get pulled into it, but complex enough for someone who listens to classical music to not feel like I'm writing down to them," he explains (58:21). This dual approach seeks to make classical music more appealing to a broader, younger audience while maintaining the intricate compositional quality appreciated by traditionalists.

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Notable Quotes

• Danny Elfman (00:16): "I was a street musician for years."
• Jordan Peele (01:22): "Nobody does."
• Danny Elfman (01:56): "I've lived most of my life as a recluse."
• Danny Elfman (35:25): "I realized I'm just not meant to be in a band."
• Danny Elfman (44:00): "Every film I worked on with Tim opened more doors."
• Danny Elfman (46:12): "I need to do this for me."
• Danny Elfman (54:29): "I got some good reviews on this new release from Sony Classical."
• Danny Elfman (67:44): "Nothing makes me happier in my life than hearing stories like, you just told me about your kids."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Magnificent Others offers a comprehensive look into Danny Elfman's remarkable career and personal philosophy. From his roots in street theater and the energetic performances of Oingo Boingo to his influential collaborations in Hollywood and his recent pursuits in classical music, Elfman's journey is a testament to his relentless creativity and resilience. His reflections on isolation, typecasting, and the pursuit of artistic fulfillment provide valuable insights for aspiring musicians and creatives alike. Elfman's enduring passion for music and his desire to connect with diverse audiences underscore his status as a truly magnificent individual in the world of music.

Transcript

[Danny Elfman]

It was kind of. Nobody knew what to do. And that score stood out. I was offered every quirky comedy made in Hollywood.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

For the next five years. It was like, oh, my God, I'm the comedy guy.

[Jordan Peele]

They were getting the vibe of what you were putting out. That is so cool hearing that.

[Danny Elfman]

Nothing makes me happier in my life. I knew when I was writing it, my 10 year old daughter was hearing every song and approving it as I did it.

[Jordan Peele]

You've been right more than you've been wrong. There's something sort of beautiful about that.

[Danny Elfman]

You're gonna make me cry.

[Jordan Peele]

But why?

[Danny Elfman]

Because.

[Jordan Peele]

So here we are. It's my dear pal, Danny Elfman. Danny, thank you so much.

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, thanks for having me.

[Jordan Peele]

Oingo Boingo. More than 100 films, notably Milk, Good Will Hunting, Big Fish, men in black, Dr. Strange, Dumbo the Grinch, Oz the Great and Powerful, Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Spider Man, Mars Attacks, Corpse Bride, Alice in Wonderland, Batman and Batman Returns, Edward Scissorhands, Nightmare Before Christmas, of course, the original Beetlejuice and the new New Beetlejuice, which is called Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice.

[Danny Elfman]

I think so.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. That's a lot.

[Danny Elfman]

It's been.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, tell me about it. So.

[Danny Elfman]

And I also, in that time, created four scripts and three musicals.

[Jordan Peele]

I did not know that.

[Danny Elfman]

Nobody does.

[Jordan Peele]

No, but I did my research and.

[Danny Elfman]

I didn't know that. No, but that's not.

[Jordan Peele]

Have this. Have any of the scripts come to fruition?

[Danny Elfman]

No, no. I just.

[Jordan Peele]

I would think with your. I don't want to use the word leverage, but your position here in Dear.

[Danny Elfman]

Hollywood, I. I'm just the composer. You know, I don't believe that.

[Jordan Peele]

You've certainly surpassed the title. Thank you, composer. But. But I'm curious about that. So take me through that because obviously you know a lot of people and you know who to talk to. Why have they not made any movies that you would.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, first off, you'd be surprised how few people I know.

[Jordan Peele]

Really.

[Danny Elfman]

I've lived most of my life as a recluse and even within Hollywood, people don't understand this about composers. In Hollywood, my entire infrastructure on a film from beginning to end could be nothing more than me, one editor and the director. And those might be the only people I meet. And then maybe if I go to a premiere, oh, there's the producer. Hello. How are you? And other people in the studio. I am as unconnected as can be. And I've never been good at the networking part of it.

[Jordan Peele]

See, I have that in my note. I'm jumping ahead, but I'm curious because I have done a few major motion pictures and the amount of people in my ear drove me insane. The term that comes to mind is cooks in the kitchen. There were so many cooks in the kitchen. So how have you avoided the cooks in the kitchen?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, normally, I mean, every film is different dynamic. So most films I'm only allowed to listen to the director and so the director comes over every week and there's a relationship and there might be one presentation for producers or other people, but then I never see them again. There are other projects where the producer becomes the voice. The studio might step in because there's problems with the picture and then they start interacting, interjecting points of view. But it's very rare. You know, If I've done 110 films, probably 90 to 100 of them, I only interfaced with the director and, or the director and the editor because I.

[Jordan Peele]

Had the complete opposite experience. Maybe it was because they considered me a novice or something, but.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, but like I said, you know, also the films all have their own dynamic. You know, I've worked on a film where, where literally I was told not to speak with the director. I'm now taking notes from the producer or from the studio. So things can shift and the dynamics can change. But I am as unconnected. I mean, I swear to God this is true. I'll go to an after show, I'll go to a premiere, there'll be an after show party and more often than not I'm sitting in a corner just kind of looking at people with a drink in my hand going, I don't know anybody here.

[Jordan Peele]

Wow.

[Danny Elfman]

And oh, there's somebody I know, thank God. And I'll try to like.

[Jordan Peele]

See, I would have thought all these years you work in the picture business that you would have more connectivity.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, I know, but it's an isolated.

[Jordan Peele]

Do you like that isolation?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, yes and no. I mean, it's so weird. I've done so little collaboration in my life, but the little that I have done, sometimes it's like, wow, this is really fun. I'm actually like working with somebody.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm not trying to interject myself, but to me it would be a dream to work with as a, as a composer and as an artist.

[Danny Elfman]

Because I've just.

[Jordan Peele]

Your, your, your imagination is so. If you know this word F.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, thank you.

[Jordan Peele]

It's not a beautiful word to use, but I mean your creativity is boundless. And I'm, I'm usually a person that people complain. I do Too much, you know, too many songs. Even my own band complains. Too many songs.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, but. Same.

[Jordan Peele]

Right, But I mean, when I look at you, I'm like, wow, I wish I had Danny's drive. Oh, well, no, but you put me to shame. I mean, not.

[Danny Elfman]

It's not as much as you think, because it's just. You gotta figure this with me. It's like there's two people who don't like each other, living in the same body, and they both want to work.

[Jordan Peele]

Which. Who am I talking to?

[Danny Elfman]

Should I tell him? Yeah, he's okay. Yeah, you can let him know. Really. Okay. It's kind of hard to explain, but one of them does the film music and enjoys doing that and is very much just in this small sub world of filmmaking, and the other one wants to do anything but that.

[Jordan Peele]

Do you feel at times somewhat limited by your. Your great success in film composing? Does it make sense?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, that's made it difficult for me with the classical music because a lot of symphony orchestras, especially starting out, were very much like, oh, no, come on. Famous film composer don't give a world.

[Jordan Peele]

Rock world. I mean, come on.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly. I mean, I've gone through this my whole life because when I stepped into film, they hated me because I came from rock. And it was like, oh, he doesn't do his own music. And literally, the whole community spent 10 years waiting for the smoking gun of who really writes my music, really. So, I mean, I was very much despised when I saw that as somebody.

[Jordan Peele]

That listened to Oingo Boingo. When I first heard your film work, I totally got the translation, like, immediately.

[Danny Elfman]

Most people just assume somebody else does your writing.

[Jordan Peele]

No, I know it's you because I know your Boingo Boingo work well.

[Danny Elfman]

But you have an ear, perhaps, that could pick up these relationships. I'm guilty of the same thing. I understand where that resistance comes from. If I hear of somebody from rock doing an orchestral score, I might also assume, oh, they've got somebody doing. So I get that they don't understand that I was doing my own work, but it took a decade, and then finally, okay, he's all right, you know, it took 10, 15 years. And then as I get well known as a film composer and I step into the classical world, it was the exact same thing all over again. And it was like, oh, yeah, right. Famous film composer wants to write classical music. And when I did my first commission, it was about 14, 15 years ago, I think, for Carnegie hall, for the American Composers Orchestra. The conductor told me he Says, you know, the New York press, they will hand you your head on a platter. I can tell you that he hadn't even heard a note yet. And I go, I know. And I go, I like that. So it was like, I expect resistance on everything.

[Jordan Peele]

Right?

[Danny Elfman]

You know, I started out with a musical theatrical troupe that just got horrible press, and we used to take our worst reviews and print them as our ads. And then I got in a rock band, and the LA press would say, dance music for kids who can't dance. And I loved that.

[Jordan Peele]

That's a T shirt. That's a T shirt. In my band, that's a T shirt.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly. And so, okay. And then in film music, oh, my God, it was huge. So I finally started to realize that I thrive on that. And so it's good when I get that negative energy. Works well for me.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, I have such a different perception because I. I did listen to Oingo Boingo. But then watching your success in film, and I know how much love there is for you in the rock community, for your work in films, which is most recently with you playing these live shows, I mean, you can see that your influence on particularly young musicians, in terms of looking at music cinematically, I mean, your influence is pervasive. And there's so much love for you from the music community. So that's hard for me to understand. And I know how parochial it is out here.

[Danny Elfman]

It's only because I survived long enough. You know, you live long enough, eventually you get a little respect and you.

[Jordan Peele]

Do take your shirt off and you're jacked. And I'm like, wow, what's he doing?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, you know, that was kind of random. You know, I was going to Coachella in 2021. Is it 20 or 21? I can't remember when it was rescheduled after Covid and I. I hadn't been on stage in a quarter century.

[Jordan Peele]

I did not know that.

[Danny Elfman]

So I did want to come out there and not go Elvis on my friends. So I like, you know, I wanted to kind of keep my together and. Sorry, I don't know what I'm allowed to say.

[Jordan Peele]

We can say whatever we want.

[Danny Elfman]

Okay. And so when I went out there, I said, I don't know how I'm going to dress or what I'm going to do. I said, I'm just going to go. Like, I used to go out on stage shorts. I wanted to go barefoot because I used to go in on stage barefoot, and they wouldn't let me because insurance risks, and it was about halfway through the show, and I'm trying.

[Jordan Peele]

Coachella, they wouldn't let you go barefoot.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. And I'm trying to lock into the moment. Well, because I get it, but nails on the stage, you know, stuff like that. And it was about a third of the way into the show, and I'm trying to connect to the moment, and I go, it's been 25 years since I've been. It's so weird. And I'm looking at an audience that wasn't even necessarily expecting me. It's not like I'm playing for.

[Jordan Peele]

Or even born. The last time you were on stage or even born.

[Danny Elfman]

So it's not like I was playing for an Oingo Boingo reunion, you know, with two. An Oingo Boingo crowd. And I finally just said, oh, it. This is how I used to be. 25 years ago, as soon as I got sweaty, my shirt came off. A bunch of guys would tear it apart in the front, and there'd be, like, this whole mosh pit with my shirt. It was a thing that happened every show, and I just did that to try to focus myself back in the moment. And it worked. I said, I feel vulnerable and exposed.

[Jordan Peele]

And all I know is I looked at the photos. I was like, wow, he's jacked. Well, I work in professional wrestling, so that's the first thing we look at. It's like I'm like, danny's jacked.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, thank you. I mean, I was out to blow people's minds in some way or another, because the show made no sense. I said, I'm coming up there. I did the most outrageous visuals, which is why I wanted to do the show, because when I saw the screens at the Coachella stage in 2019, I said, I gotta do this. I could put some really up stuff up there, and this'll be fun. And so it was just part of. I wanted to surprise people, and part of that was just me, and part of it was what was behind me and, you know, and I just wanted to be. Not what anybody was expecting after a quarter century.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. How was that response versus the response you just had? Because there was. I saw so much press on your last. Was it Sick New World?

[Danny Elfman]

Sick New World, Sick New World? Yeah. You know, it was amazing because I came up with the show randomly. 2019, my manager finally brought me out to Coachella. They've been trying to get me out there for 12 or 15 years.

[Jordan Peele]

But were they trying to get you to do Oingo Boingo?

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, they Were like, do something about the reunions. Yeah. And then I went out there and they said, well, do for film scores. Like, you know, Hans Zimmer did this film score thing. And I go, well, I can't do that either on this stage. Cause it means prelay and, you know, thing that I don't like to do. And then I came, I saw those screens and I said, wow, the technology. Last time I've been at an outdoor.

[Jordan Peele]

Concert, the screens are insane.

[Danny Elfman]

The screens are insane. And I said that got me excited. I said I could put some shit up there that's really wild. And I pitched an idea, like, how about old, new and film all mished together in a nonsensical way.

[Jordan Peele]

But that's your world.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, but at the moment it seemed like that'd be fun. But then when it actually was happening, I said, this is the worst idea really, I ever had. Yeah. I mean, we went into rehearsals and I go, I don't know who this show's for. I don't know what the audience is going to make of this. You know, we're going to be doing rock songs and suddenly playing Edward Scissorhands. What the. And I, backstage before that show, I literally felt like I was walking out to a firing squad.

[Jordan Peele]

Really?

[Danny Elfman]

I said, I'm walking into a train wreck of my own design. They're gonna kill me. It makes no sense. There was no warm up shows. There was no way to try it out.

[Jordan Peele]

That is a tough leap. All or not 60,000 people, right? I guess in the dirt and the sand.

[Danny Elfman]

And I couldn't even tell during the show. You know, it's like I kind of locked in at a certain point, but I was still looking at people mostly going like that. I didn't know if it was a good.

[Jordan Peele]

The good agape or the bad agape.

[Danny Elfman]

Yes, exactly. I couldn't tell. And it wasn't until I left the show. And you know what it's like on those stages. It's loud and subgroupers. It's hard to even hear what's going on. It's hard to hear your connection. This. There's so much sound coming off the stage and you can't see very far. You know, you see mainly just the front. So I'm heading backstage with my manager, Laura, and she's like picking up all these messages. Oh my God. Oh my God. You should see this. You should see this. You should see this. I go, they liked it.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

And she goes, they liked it. And I go, oh. It was like a reprise from the Firing squad.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

And so once I got over that hurdle, I go, okay, nothing about this makes any sense, but. But I don't care. Yeah, so I'll keep.

[Jordan Peele]

But I think that's a testament to what you've built because, again, there's so much love for you in the music community. It's hard to explain other than saying, when I hear your work in films, I feel like always one of us. Does that make sense? And I don't. It sounds interesting.

[Danny Elfman]

Look, you're gonna make me cry.

[Jordan Peele]

But why?

[Danny Elfman]

Because I've only felt that in the last couple of years since I came back. You know, I've been so living on my own, and I've never really felt connected to anything. Anything. You know, when I was in a band, we lived in our own world. I didn't know anybody in other bands. We didn't hang out. And then I was a composer and off on my own, I've always been like Nosferatu in his. Kind of hidden away.

[Jordan Peele]

If Nosferatu had red hair, yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

It wasn't until I did the remix album for Big Mess and Found. And my bass player, Stu Brooks, he wanted to, like, I'm gonna send this out to other people. Let's do some. I said, no one is gonna wanna work with me and do this. No one. And suddenly it was like, oh, look, Square Pusher. And this one. And then Ghostman and Trent, and I couldn't believe it.

[Jordan Peele]

That's what I'm trying to tell you. I mean, you know it, but I'm saying is I was shocked. That's why I'm shocked. In the reverse.

[Danny Elfman]

It's the first time I. I was even aware of anybody even knowing who I was out in the world of music. I mean, I knew I had a fan base out there, but I never talked with anybody. I never. And it was so moving to me. I get emotional now. I'm sorry about that.

[Jordan Peele]

No, you shouldn't apologize. It's beautiful.

[Danny Elfman]

Because it was like a revelation. It's like, you know, I feel like that crazy Oscar speech that Sally Fields did years and years ago, she got there and said, they like me. They really like me. I thought, that's so corny. And here I am doing the same thing.

[Jordan Peele]

If I have any kind of meta take and this. It gets. All the things I wanted to talk to you about is somehow you've had the world come to you. Does it make sense?

[Danny Elfman]

I guess I just. I've always felt like I've struggled through everything, but.

[Jordan Peele]

But that's the beauty of it is you are the guy in the castle, and people actually want to visit the castle. You're the. There might only be one out of a billion, but you're the guy. You've actually pulled that off.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, I guess it's hard for me to.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm telling you, I'm just.

[Danny Elfman]

Look, when I got a call from your producer about this show a couple days ago, my answer was really me. It's like, I was so honored and happy.

[Jordan Peele]

But this is the core of why I want to do a show like this is American culture is very trendy, as you know, and you've lived through the various decades like I have through it. But your accomplishment is so singular. You're more the American dream than what is usually held up as the American dream. Does it make sense? And I'm not saying we all agree on what America is anymore, but that's for sure. Right? But I'm saying is. And back to my little meta harp is like, somehow you've gotten the world to come to you, which is really, really rare.

[Danny Elfman]

I. I never thought of it that way. So it's just really interesting to hear.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, but that's maybe why you. It's work. Because you're not. You're not looking out the window. Is anybody paying attention? Every five seconds, I'm more that guy. I'll do crazy stuff and be like, do you still like me just to hate me? I'm too. I'm too reflexive like that. And that's probably one of my great weaknesses.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, and certainly one of my great weaknesses has been my inability to do what my agents always wished I could do, which is to connect and make connections and interface.

[Jordan Peele]

Go to the party.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly. Like, I'm really shy, you know, around people and a group of people. One on one, I'm fine. But put me in a room full of people. I just find myself, like I said, in the shadows and don't know what to do with myself. So I've never been good at that.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, I want to. Want to preface this. This is a maybe strange way to put it. I'm interested in your youth, but not like, I don't want to get too. To some deep psychological analysis thing, but doing my research on your parents and the world that you grew up in. And obviously your brother, who. Who was it that was the person that noticed your precociousness early that made you feel that you could trust your. I mean, it's a bit psychological. Your inner voice, like, who gave you the confidence to sort of believe in your vision.

[Danny Elfman]

It's interesting. I mean, certainly the first person that did would be my brother. You know, my parents were just horrified that, you know, they're schoolteachers and my mother became a writer, but they were still, you know, she was a schoolteacher 25 years. Yeah. And both of her sons ended up essentially becoming hippies and street theater. Literally. I was a street musician for years. And that's not a school teacher's dream. You know, it's like, Danny, so you're on your one year sabbatical. You are going to college, right? Oh, yeah. Just, you know. Oh, yeah. And then after like five years, you're not going to college, are you?

[Jordan Peele]

I go, no.

[Danny Elfman]

And so they were supportive in a terrified, depressed way of seeing their sons go off the rails. But they never tried to discourage me. But my Brother, I was 18 years old. I just picked up the violin. I was on a year of traveling through Africa, and I stopped in Paris first, and he was performing conga drums with a musical theatrical troupe, a French musical theatrical troupe. And he believed in me from the beginning. And so I was practicing one day he brought the director in to listen. And I come out, director goes, hey, come on the road with us. You can play. I go, I don't know what, I've only been playing for six months. He goes, ah, you're fine. And I went on the road with them.

[Jordan Peele]

How did you get to Europe in the first place?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, it was en route to Africa, Right. You know, I went with a friend and we were stopping off to visit my brother in Paris before heading to Morocco to begin this year long excursion around.

[Jordan Peele]

Did you ever go up with the master musicians of Jijuca? You know that it's like, I don't know if they're a tribe or a clan. Do you know about all that?

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, in Morocco, yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, they're up in the mountains.

[Danny Elfman]

In this particular trip, I never got to Morocco. Everything got derailed. But I went back to Morocco with Gus Van Zandt years later and. And had an amazing trip interfacing with the Genawi. And we met a host that had musicians playing at his house. Every night would end with these Genui. And then there was a Genui festival. You know, these are the desert musicians.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, I know that music.

[Danny Elfman]

And it was so inspiring. And it was just the beginning of an inspiring year.

[Jordan Peele]

Why Africa? Like, did somebody just like, let's just go to Africa.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, me and my friend from high school.

[Jordan Peele]

This would have been what year?

[Danny Elfman]

Around 71. Okay, right into 72. Right right in there. You know, we were just. I was just 18, and we were.

[Jordan Peele]

And your mother said, mom, I'm going to Africa to hang out.

[Danny Elfman]

Is that a good idea? And it was like, we're going around the world originally.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, we planned the trip through North Africa, India, Asia, back to Los Angeles.

[Jordan Peele]

Oh, you're doing that?

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, that was the plan. Didn't happen. Yeah, but that was the plan. Ended up going to Paris, getting hired in the circus, finally meeting my friend, going to the Canary Islands, met new friends, got me fascinated with the culture of a country called Mali. And next thing I know, we're on a boat heading towards the Sahara Desert, aiming towards Mali, which I'd never even heard of when I was plotting the trip out. And now I went on a completely. Instead of turning left, we turned right and went down West Africa and through Central Africa. My friend and I split up about halfway through. So I did about half the trip on my own. And it was an insanely amazing experience, getting sick, getting my life saved by a German doctor, seeing black mambas cross the road and, you know, being told, like, bites. You just sit down and relax because you're dead. That kind of thing. And go, I don't care. But I was, you know, 18.

[Jordan Peele]

Wow.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, it's. It's the kind of you could do when you're 18. That's at 25. It's like you'd even go, whoa, whoa, whoa. And. But I was learning percussion. I was playing with musicians.

[Jordan Peele]

Can we stop there for a second? Because when I think of your musicale, I always think percussive first.

[Danny Elfman]

That was the first. You're absolutely dead on it.

[Jordan Peele]

It's all in your. Like, even you as a singer, like, in the Boingo music. Right. It's very rhythmic.

[Danny Elfman]

It's. Because that's where I came from. You know, I spent this year, I came back, I started working with my brother and the Mystic Knights before Oingo, Boingo. And in that. Although we did a lot of 30s music. And in my mind.

[Jordan Peele]

But even that's very rhythmic.

[Danny Elfman]

It is very rhythmic. I mean, I lived in the 70s. I lived in 1935. Harlem. Yeah, my mind. But percussion was also the center of everything. And we built our own percussion ensembles. We built an entire metal ensemble based on an Indonesian gamelan, and then an entire wooden ensemble based on West African bolognese. And we played these on stage, you know, and for a while, I really did think that was my future. I was gonna be some kind of ethnomusicologist I loved building percussion instruments, getting my hands, you know, getting covered with sawdust, and that was my world. So you've. It was very rhythmic. In fact, it was hearing the. The rhythmic, intense ska music at the end of the 70s.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

That made me want to drop everything and start a rock band.

[Jordan Peele]

Right. When you're take. I want to. Because it's hard to find much information on the Mystic Knights thing. And your brother. It was his thing.

[Danny Elfman]

He started it.

[Jordan Peele]

Right.

[Danny Elfman]

We started, both of us, with this troupe called Le Grand Magic Circus in Paris. He spent a couple of years with them while I was in Africa. He came back home and founded the Mystic Knights, inspired by Legrand Magic Circus. And the day I came home, he was like, you're the musical director. I go, yeah, but I got hepatitis, so let me rest up. You can rest up all day tomorrow. Day after tomorrow. You could sit it on rehearsals. So I was kind of appointed musical director of the Mystic Nights.

[Jordan Peele]

And what would that entail?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, musical director of a street troupe.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, so a lot of free spirits.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Early 70s, passing the hat.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, we'd go out and we'd.

[Jordan Peele]

Where would you go? Around.

[Danny Elfman]

Okay. So I started writing music, and we'd bring in stuff, and we had a brass band and a percussion band, and we would march right into with the drums into a line, for example, in Westwood or somewhere, you know, where there's a movie theater, wherever there's a lot of people, and do like a quick show, pass the hat, and get out before the police arrive.

[Jordan Peele]

10 minutes?

[Danny Elfman]

15 minutes. Yeah. 10, 15. 15 minutes was like, yeah, you're pushing it. Yeah, you're pushing it. There's going to be a cop car.

[Jordan Peele]

And would you play real gigs, too, or not?

[Danny Elfman]

At first. The first three years was probably just on the streets.

[Jordan Peele]

Wow.

[Danny Elfman]

And then eventually my brother left to do this crazy movie, Forbidden Zone, this midnight cult movie. And then I took over the. The Mystic Knights, and at that point, I really got all really good musicians, so everybody had to play four instruments, you know, so we could be a string band, a brass band, a percussion band. And isn't that beautiful how so much.

[Jordan Peele]

Of that still informs your work, though?

[Danny Elfman]

I guess so.

[Jordan Peele]

I mean, that's my summation.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, no, it all made sense eventually, but I taught myself to write music with the Mystic Knights because I had to write for these guys, and I had no training, and so I taught myself to write, and I started writing these complicated charts.

[Jordan Peele]

We wrote charts. Yeah. Yeah. Is this more of the 20s through 40s vibe or do you just start going into your own direction, original stuff.

[Danny Elfman]

And doing transcriptions of Cab Calloway and duke Ellington music. Mid 30s, kind of.

[Jordan Peele]

Re. Re.

[Danny Elfman]

I wanted every note to be perfect.

[Jordan Peele]

Really?

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Those are hard things to transcribe.

[Danny Elfman]

I know, but my first transcription was a Duke Ellington piano solo, a piece called Black and Tan Fantasy. I wanted every note to be absolutely perfect.

[Jordan Peele]

Do you know that whole thing about how the way he composed, because he was always on the road, he'd stay two hours, three hours after the kid could just write. Do you know about that?

[Danny Elfman]

I don't.

[Jordan Peele]

It's really beautiful. There's actually some video of it when he's a little on the older side. But, you know, because they couldn't stay in the hotels they wanted to stay in, he got wise. And so they got their own train car. So that way they could go out by the train tracks and party all night and do whatever they want and carouse. So he had real. No reason to get back to the train car. So they would play a gig, everyone would clear out, and then he would sit on the stage for two or three hours with Billy Strayhorn, and he would just. He would just play and write and transcribe, and that's how he was able to produce all that work and tour.

[Danny Elfman]

Amazing. It's just amazing stuff. And the other thing that I heard about him, which I love, is that when they were in New York, that he pretty much had the band full time, and he would just write down ideas to sketch stuff and just show up at the rehearsal, say, here's some new stuff. What a luxury. Let's just try these new ideas. Here's some charts. Wow.

[Jordan Peele]

Have you ever heard those? There's the recordings, you know, in the. You know, in the 40s, they weren't allowed to record because of the war.

[Danny Elfman]

There was like a. I didn't know.

[Jordan Peele]

That there was a. That's why there's not a lot of key recordings between the war years of the great bands. Because the only way you could record is if you were on the radio and for transcription discs. But you weren't allowed to go in and record because it was against the war effort. But somebody along the way in the 40s got that, that famous Duke Ellington band to play on a new recording technology, which was recording to glass. And if you can get these recordings, you hear the Ellington band recorded to these glass discs. And it's basically the equivalent of what became 50s recording technology. So you can actually hear what they sounded like in the 40s. But it sounds like it's from the 50s, but it's the 40s band. And it's mind blowing because it's such a revelation because usually these kind of tinny forties big band recordings. Yeah. But to hear that band with almost like more like capital 50s vibe, it's jaw droppingly beautiful with those players at that peak during those years. So if you get a chance, I recommend that if you love that stuff.

[Danny Elfman]

I do.

[Jordan Peele]

If you do. Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

And it was an amazing era of inspiration. And then when I heard the ska music, it brought me back to the West African high life bands that I loved listening to.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, that's the influence again of the African American emigres that had come into London. Right. So you're making this weird.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, because I had all this music that I loved and singles I brought back up the High Life. And High Life is some is kind of between reggae and salza almost, you.

[Jordan Peele]

Know, is it more uptempo or.

[Danny Elfman]

It's not as uptempo as ska, so it's a little more Latin tempo, but still reggae vibe. It's hard to explain, but it had a vibe and then ska just amped that up.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, BPMs.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And for me at that age, it was like. I heard that. It's like, yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

So the myths ignites was this kind of, I don't want to say ragtag.

[Danny Elfman]

Ensemble, but kind of ragtag multi instrument, ragtag 12 piece ensemble.

[Jordan Peele]

So does your brother start sort of receding or is it.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, he went off to do Forbidden Zone. So the last three, four years of the Mystic Knights, it was just me in the band.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, I was trying to understand that.

[Danny Elfman]

Because we split ways.

[Jordan Peele]

So there's, you know, in your bio, there's this delineating point where you know, 78 or so.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly.

[Jordan Peele]

So how does that happen?

[Danny Elfman]

I just. It was so crazy. I mean, I heard this music and I just said, you know what? I'm done doing theater. You know, five sets, costume changes, and all this instruments. It takes a week to set it up.

[Jordan Peele]

Did you. Sorry to interrupt you, but did you feel like, I mean, you kind of inherited this thing from your brother, but did you feel it wasn't yours or you just threw out it?

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, no. It was a point. I felt very much it was mine because I was now starting to write original compositions.

[Jordan Peele]

But what was it about the theatricality? Did you just grow out of that or.

[Danny Elfman]

It was just so hard to do too much. And the appeal of like, wow, we could just set up the drums And a couple of amps. Half an hour we could be playing seemed so appealing. Cause, you know, we had videos, we had animations on screens. Yeah, it was like a full multimedia thing. Suddenly the simplicity of just a band. Now, the band wasn't simple. It was still eight pieces, you know. Cause like a high life band. I had a horn section and ska bands too. So I kind of modeled it after that. But we still could go into a club and set up in a half an hour and play.

[Jordan Peele]

Did you have any commercial aspirations at this point?

[Danny Elfman]

No, I didn't think we'd ever be. You know, I didn't know what we were. I never did figure out what we were. And I still don't know what we were.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm sure I don't know. You know what I mean?

[Danny Elfman]

It's like. I just know that it was fun.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, it had that. I remember. And maybe it was an LA thing, but I remember you guys were on television a lot. Do you remember that?

[Danny Elfman]

No.

[Jordan Peele]

I feel like I saw you on television like 20 times. No, you know, in the time. Not YouTube clips. I'm talking about, you know, wherever you were. 1979 or something. I feel like you were on television. That's how I remember seeing you for the first time.

[Danny Elfman]

Interesting.

[Jordan Peele]

I mean, there I am in Chicago.

[Danny Elfman]

Right, right.

[Jordan Peele]

And it's so West Coast. This idea of this. The name is different. Right. It's the new wave times and you have Adamand over here and things like that. But it seems so out of context for even what was happening at the time.

[Danny Elfman]

Very out of context.

[Jordan Peele]

But you were on. In my memory, you were on TV a lot.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, we did a few things.

[Jordan Peele]

Maybe. I just happened to see every time you were on television, I just was always in the right place.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, it wasn't that many times.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. Wow. Okay. I swear to God, I remember seeing you, I feel like so many times.

[Danny Elfman]

That's funny.

[Jordan Peele]

But it sears in my memory because it was so different.

[Danny Elfman]

We just jumped at every chance we could. Of course, as you know, you're in.

[Jordan Peele]

This kind of hippie ensemble. And then you say, okay, I'm gonna do this other thing. When do the record people come knocking like.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, I mean, we started out 78, 79. And we pressed our own episod. And then this DJ at K Rock, Rock station.

[Jordan Peele]

Was it Rodney or.

[Danny Elfman]

No, it was Jed the Fish.

[Jordan Peele]

Jed the Fish.

[Danny Elfman]

And Jed the Fish just started playing it. And all of a sudden we had this song being played on KROQ every time.

[Jordan Peele]

What song was that?

[Danny Elfman]

It's called Only A Lad.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay.

[Danny Elfman]

And it was just. Suddenly, our shows just started getting bigger. And then IRS said, we'll release this. IRS Records says Miles Copeland.

[Jordan Peele]

Miles Copeland. And that was the cool label. Did you think that? I mean.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, it was great. And Miles became our manager for a while. And so then our first record, we said, oh, we're going to move you from IRS to A and M. So we were on A and M for a number of years and did three more records and.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

But, you know. And then we toured for a bit with the Police. And then again, things just kind of grew west coast, but it was all West Coast. It was really weird. Our. I mean, we got to the point where we were selling 5,000 seats in LA, but if we went to New York, it would be 500 seats, and in the Midwest in between, it would be like 250 seats.

[Jordan Peele]

In the culture I was in, you guys were so anachronistic. It just didn't translate.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, it was. And we didn't tour a lot. You know, we were a big band. And also, I hated touring. And I just realized I had a lot of problems being in a rock band.

[Jordan Peele]

Right, okay, let's break that down. Because I got my own problems being in a rock band. I'm always happy to hear about somebody else's rather than my own.

[Danny Elfman]

Fair enough.

[Jordan Peele]

So there's the commercial aspect. How interested were you in the commercial? Let's call it I want to be a rock star part.

[Danny Elfman]

Didn't even think about it. I figured that's never gonna happen because what we do is just so whacked and it doesn't seem to fit into any genre.

[Jordan Peele]

So it was more like an adventure.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, band dynamics.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, I wish I can say I was more collaborative. You know, in hindsight, I look back and I kind of feel bad that I was a little bit.

[Jordan Peele]

You shouldn't never feel bad.

[Danny Elfman]

I was a bit of a despot.

[Jordan Peele]

You're talking to a fellow despot.

[Danny Elfman]

Okay, so it's my.

[Jordan Peele]

I'm not trying to interject myself, but my rationale was, if I don't do this, I'm never going to get out of here. For us, getting out of Chicago was the paramount objective. We wanted to come to la, Right? You know what I mean? We wanted to be where you were. You know, we weren't in any kind of land of, you know, honey. You know what I'm saying? Chicago was bleak. So everything in my mind was like, I need to do this to get out of here. So that Was my rationalization fairly. What was your rationalization?

[Danny Elfman]

I just. I don't even know. It's like I'm hearing this stuff and I know exactly how it should sound.

[Jordan Peele]

I feel like I'm talking to myself. Listen to. Have you had this experience? You're in rehearsal, you're in the studio, and you go, I think it should go like this. And somebody goes, nah, I think it should go like this. And you go, no, I think my way's the right way. And they go, well, that's your opinion. And you're like, yeah, but my opinion is right. Have you had that feeling?

[Danny Elfman]

Yes, exactly.

[Jordan Peele]

I understand, because this is how I've always felt with my group is I hear the notes in my head and I don't feel there's another option.

[Danny Elfman]

No, exactly.

[Jordan Peele]

And they treat it like it's a sort of a la carte buffet. Like, oh, there's all these notes you could play. Like, no, no, no, no. This is the note. This is the rhythm. And I don't. And they treat it like it's a. Like it's some sort of weird. Throwing your weight around opinion. Yeah, it's like, no, you understand. This is like a religious thing for me. Like, this is the way I hear it. I don't. There's no variation.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Jordan Peele]

So was it the band dynamic then? It sort of became Euro angle Boingo versus their angle Boingo.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. And, you know, it's weird. I mean, I was only in the band. The band was together for 17 years. But by the time we finished 8, 9, 10 years, I wanted out. I realized I'm just not meant to be in a band. I want to be in a different band every two years. And whatever I'm into, I don't. I'm not into it anymore. After, like, two years. It was just psychologically hard. I never understood how bands would go out on the road for six months or even a year, six weeks. I was ready to.

[Jordan Peele]

Like. One time we did 22 months.

[Danny Elfman]

God damn. Yeah. I mean, six weeks. I just knew that I wasn't cut out for it.

[Jordan Peele]

You have to have a certain inner pathology.

[Danny Elfman]

Yes. And also halfway through, I started. I became a film composer. Tim Burton just found me, and I became a composer.

[Jordan Peele]

Kiwi's big adventure.

[Danny Elfman]

Kiwi's big adventure. So now I'm with the band for 10 years. I'm also trying to get in at least two films a year. One or two films a year. Cause I want to learn, and I couldn't leave the Band at that point, because it was like, oh, we get it. You have a more lucrative career. Thanks.

[Jordan Peele]

It was a loyalty.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. Guilt.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, well, that works.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

I mean, I felt it's a very effective controlling mechanism.

[Danny Elfman]

Very effective. And that lasted about seven, eight years. I don't really want to do this anymore, but I need, you know, they need this.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

And I just can't abandon them because it'll feel like I left for this other career.

[Jordan Peele]

And so wasn't this abrupt thing like, this stops and this begins?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, five years, I said, every year. This is our last year. This is our last year. And they go, yeah, yeah, right, right. Then four years, then three years, I said, this is gonna be. Yeah, yeah, right, right. And finally, 95, I said, no, we are doing our farewell concerts. I can't do anymore. I was also destroying my hearing. And there was that physical thing of my own. Monitors on stage were destroying my ears. And my father, when he died, was almost completely deaf anyhow.

[Jordan Peele]

And I felt like, you think it's a genetic thing?

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, yeah, I do have a genetic thing. And all I was doing was exacerbating it. And I'm like, I'm knocking 10 or 15 years off of my hearing. So that provided a lot of motivation to get out. We didn't have in ears at that point.

[Jordan Peele]

So it was Tim Burton that approached you about Pee Wee and.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, Paul Reubens and Tim Burton, Paul Rubens, Pee Wee Herman.

[Jordan Peele]

But why you?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, that's what I asked when I came in from theater. I said, why me?

[Jordan Peele]

I don't get it.

[Danny Elfman]

And Tim was like, I think you could do a score. And I'm like, really? And Paul was a fan of this late 70s score with the Mystic Knights, kind of a score that I did from my brother's film, his Forbidden Zone that he'd done. And he made a note. And so when they were talking about composers, Paul said, oh, you know, you should check out this Danny Elfman guy. And Tim was like, oh, yeah. I go to their shows at the Whiskey. He's with the Oingo Boingo. And so they both knew who I was and called me in for a meeting. And I said, just what? He said, why me? And he goes. So he showed me some film, went home, I made a four track recording, sent a cassette over, never expected to hear from them again. I got hired.

[Jordan Peele]

Wow. That's simple, huh?

[Danny Elfman]

I thought it was. They were insane, you know?

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

And literally when I sat down to write the first note, I was like, wait, wait, it's Been five years, six years since I've written a note on paper. Cause, you know, I did all this learning intensive stuff in the Mystic Nights. Then I went to Oingo Boingo. You don't write music for a band.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

Nobody gives a. And so I said all that was for nothing. And then here I was seven years later. Oh, I gotta write it all down. How did I do it?

[Jordan Peele]

Did they trust you to work? Or they try to stick somebody with you that had experience, they just let you go. Yeah, that's amazing.

[Danny Elfman]

But that's the beauty of being on a small film. It's like the studio, you know, they didn't know who I was and they didn't really give a. You know, it's like Tim had hired me. And the movie was very much an under the radar kind of movie.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. But it became a big hit. I'm like crazy.

[Danny Elfman]

It became a big hit, but nobody knew that.

[Jordan Peele]

I see.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. While we were making it, it was just like, all right, we got this new guy, Tim Burton. Give him a shot. Not a big, small budget film. You know, if it's screws up, it screws up.

[Jordan Peele]

So after that, did you enter the kind of the milieu of Hollywood film composers or you were sort of still with Tim Burton?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, I mean, it flung open the doors because it was one of those being at the right place at the right time. That score came at a time when nobody knew what to do with comedy, music in film. You know, the 80s was a transition period and it was kind of. Nobody knew what to do. And that score stood out. I was offered every quirky comedy made in Hollywood for the next five years. It was like, oh, my God, I'm the comedy guy.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. That's weird.

[Danny Elfman]

I don't even go to comedies. I'm a horror guy. And it's like, all right, what the. And then, you know, Tim kept making. Between each of Tim's films, I managed to work in four film scores. So Pee Wee was one, Beetlejuice was five, Batman was 10, Edward Scissorhands not quite. It was 14.

[Jordan Peele]

So you were kind of learning your chop as you went along.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly.

[Jordan Peele]

With the other studios or the other. But you kind of addressed it, but they left you basically alone.

[Danny Elfman]

Mostly. Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Until shocking to me, because they did not leave me alone.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, Batman then happened, and it's a whole different ball game. I realized, oh, this is what it's like when it's a bigger budget film. And, you know, with Tim, they left him alone. And I was just like, doing any film I could possibly do at that time, I just wanted to get in front of orchestra.

[Jordan Peele]

So you weren't sort of being picky?

[Danny Elfman]

No. It's like, if I had time, it was between touring, doing an album. I got this period of time. I would literally take a film, divide the money up between myself and the band. I would give them half of my salary just to allow me to take these weeks off to do the work and just learn as much as I could. And then every time, you know, Tim did another film, it would open up more doors. So Beetlejuice, it was like, oh, fantasy. And then Batman is like, oh, you know, that was a rough one. But it's like he could do that. And so each of his films, like, another door would open. And then I would get calls for fantasy films. I'd get calls then for action films.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, and you get to the point where they start asking you to do the Danny Elfman thing. Right. Well, you have your own genre.

[Danny Elfman]

Right. That happened. Yeah. Later on, I was on a film, and the director said I was struggling with the title theme. He says, can you make it sound more Danny Elfman? And I said, honestly, I'm making it sound as Danny Elfman as I can, but for what you want, what you're hearing, there are others who probably do me better than me now.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. And I wanted to talk about. Because it's a big pet peeve with me when people interview me and they just want to talk about what they're interested mostly in the past. And if you ever had this, at the end of the interview, they say, is there anything you'd like to talk about? And I'm like, yeah, the present. You know what I mean? So I really do want to talk about. I did listen this morning to your percussion concerto, if I'm saying that correctly.

[Danny Elfman]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Again, obviously, percussion, but it strikes me with your work, percussion is so. The rhythm is always at the root.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

So go tell me about entering into that world. I mean, you addressed it a bit in this. In talking about the.

[Danny Elfman]

It really started in earnest about eight years ago when I did a violin concerto, which was my third commission, but I was doing six, seven years between commissions. And then when I did that piece, I said, I'm gonna do it every year, one piece per year. And it means I have to start saying no to films.

[Jordan Peele]

Is this more of a personal. Like, I need to do this for me.

[Danny Elfman]

I need to do this for. Because. Huge challenge, you know, film music. It was kind of getting easy at A certain point. And I was getting hired to films where people were expecting, all right, I already know what's expected of me. And occasionally I could do something where I got to reach out and surprise people, but usually not.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, they're hiring you because they know what you're going to do.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly. And the classical music was. Because I have no training, that was like mega mind, you know, Every time I thought it was killing me. And I liked that. It's like, this is brutally hard. I finish it, I say, I will never do this again. And then I get an ask for another commission. I go, sure, it's complete classical music. Slut. I was sitting in Berlin with the cellist, with the Berlin Philharmonic. I was hoping to get a commission from them, but he said, we can't. We got a new conductor coming in and we're not ready for new stuff yet. But I have a piano quartet and we'd love to offer you a commission for the piano quartet. And I said, yeah, sure. And then we're having coffee and talking. Then I go, you know, Newt, I have to ask you, what's a piano quartet? That doesn't mean four pianos, does it? And he goes, oh, no, no, no. And he's laughing.

[Jordan Peele]

I don't even know.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, I didn't know. I just said yes. A total slut. And I am suddenly all these ideas of doing this.

[Jordan Peele]

I read somewhere in doing my deep dive on you, I saw. Is it Dimitri Tiomkin?

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And then Max Steiner, right?

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

Those were people that you listened to? Were those people you listened to to get your bearings or for inspiration?

[Danny Elfman]

Inspiration. Those were the movie. I was a movie music buff. The only reason I was able to become a composer was that I grew up loving film music. So I was a fan who then got called into the game.

[Jordan Peele]

Both those guys, like Thiomkin and Steiner were really good at what they did.

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, yeah. So Korngold and Steiner and Tiamkin and Bernard Herman was like, my God. I mean, he's growing up.

[Jordan Peele]

He's like the ultimate goth.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. I must have been 12 when I saw the Day the Earth Stood Still. And suddenly it was a revelation that I was hearing the music and I realized there was a name connected to the music. It wasn't just there.

[Jordan Peele]

I had similar experiences. It's amazing being still. Like, you'll be watching some B level pot boiler film noir and you're like, man, this music is like. And then you'll see like, Steiner must have taken like a side hustle job or something because there's no way his name should be on that movie. But, like, the music is so good.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, that's the thing. All those guys, I mean, they played it high and low, and I love that, you know, they would do like a big Gone with the Wind or da, da, da, da. And then they would do like two or three little kind of film noir or kind of weird little.

[Jordan Peele]

So the reason I'm asking the question is from the. Let's call it the great composers. Who's your. Like, when you listen, you're like, oh, my God.

[Danny Elfman]

Okay, definitely Bernard Herrmann was the one who.

[Jordan Peele]

No, I'm sorry. For classical.

[Danny Elfman]

Oh, it was. Turned my life around.

[Jordan Peele]

Stravinsky.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. I was in high school, and I wouldn't be in music had I not moved schools. We moved neighborhoods. And at this new school, I had to make new friends. And I fell in with a group of musical friends and I was the only one who didn't play. But it was a friend who played trumpet and he turned me on to Stravinsky. And it was like, oh, my God.

[Jordan Peele]

So to the uninitiated, what is it about Stravinsky that still moves you?

[Danny Elfman]

The fact that anything could happen at any time with the music. Because, you know, I knew Beethoven and Mozart and I loved it. But if 8bars does this, it will be followed by 8bars that then goes that it'll echo each other. And with Stravinsky, and then finally that led to Prokofiev and Shostakovich and the Russian composers that became my life. But I felt like anything can explode out of this orchestra at any moment. It could be playing along, playing along and then just stop.

[Jordan Peele]

That's what I think of your film music. That's what I think of.

[Danny Elfman]

And that's what I loved. And it just changed my world.

[Jordan Peele]

Gosh, I can't even imagine. Like, how do you even begin to dive in in the classical world? Like, I get the leap from rock to film composing.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, it literally was like, I'm lucky that I started out in the days. It was like the punk era. Even though, as you know, we weren't a punk band, but it was that era. And I had such a you attitude towards everything and everybody because, you know, we didn't know what we were. We didn't care. We get bad reviews. It. You know, we get blasted in the LA Times. It. And then I became a film composer. They hate my guts. They're all like, saying, we know who really writes your music. And I was like, I was literally motivated by. I'll show you mother.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

It's like, check this out.

[Jordan Peele]

So that's your classical world attitude.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly the same thing again. It was like, I thrive on adversity and the challenge of, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm in the playground of the big boys. This is ridiculous. And then eventually the deadline hits in, because I'd been a film composer for a quarter century at that point, and I'm wired to like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm done. Then I look at the date and I go, I better start going. I only have this many days left and I'm so wired. My whole nervous system is so wired that way that with the classical music, it was the same thing. My first commission, I go to Carnegie Hall, I'm looking at the walls and there's the real Prokofiev and there's Tchaikovsky and Shostakovich. And I come home, I'm paralyzed. I couldn't write a note. I said, I can't hold myself up to these giants. What am I doing? And then, of course, oh, I have X number of days left. And they have their first rehearsal already scheduled. I have to write music and it kicks in. And I just started going. But it was huge because I didn't know what I was doing when I started the violin concerto. I'd never listened to a violin concerto, so I had to train myself first. I knew Prokofiev's piano concertos. For some reason, I knew all the piano concertos.

[Jordan Peele]

Is it like learning the rules or.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, exactly. Learning the rules. What is a concerto as opposed to a ballet, as opposed to a symphony? And you listen to Prokofiev's work, or Shostakovich's work, of Stravinsky's work, and you go, I get it. When Stravinsky, when he's writing a ballet, it's very melodic and it's gonna do this and there's a series of melodies and it could tumble from this to this to this to this to this. But when it's a symphony now, it can get heavy, it can get dense, it can get dissonant. You can approach it a different way. When it's a concerto, it's a real crowd pleasing piece. It's written for a violinist or a pianist or a piano.

[Jordan Peele]

Is it their version of like a single?

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, it's like the idea is to make them shine and make an audience jump to their feet.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay.

[Danny Elfman]

And it's like, it's a whole different mindset. And I kind of Listened and tried to soak that up and learn.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. It's like my mind's reeling because I realize how daunting it is. Maybe that's like. It's not that I'm a loss for words. I just. I can feel the.

[Danny Elfman]

Oh. It was daunting in the extreme. But fortunately, I had this part of me of, like, everybody will hate it.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. And how has the reception been so far?

[Danny Elfman]

It's been really good. I mean, of course, classical critics, not as good, but getting better.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay.

[Danny Elfman]

I got. Actually got some good reviews on this new release from Sony Classical of the Percussion Concerto, and. Which is a surprise.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, for me to read a good review for a classical work is like, what? It's like backwards. Like, through the Looking Glass. It's like backwards reality.

[Jordan Peele]

So if I'm following your trajectory, is the next 20 to 30 years of your life. Is this the mountaintop then?

[Danny Elfman]

20 to 30. Let's just say my goal is to make it nine more years. I'm 71 tomorrow.

[Jordan Peele]

Happy almost birthday.

[Danny Elfman]

Thank you. And it's like, okay, that's my goal. Can I keep myself going for nine more years?

[Jordan Peele]

You got more.

[Danny Elfman]

Okay.

[Jordan Peele]

Hopefully the reason I'm saying that is because. And it goes back to what I was saying. It's like somehow the world has come to you. Right.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, in the classical music. I'm sorry, I didn't want to interrupt.

[Jordan Peele]

No, please, no, please.

[Danny Elfman]

I was getting bad reviews, but musicians were actually responding well.

[Jordan Peele]

But this is my point about you.

[Danny Elfman]

Okay. You know, it's like you've been right.

[Jordan Peele]

More than you've been wrong. You see what I'm saying? There's something sort of beautiful about that. And you're so. I don't want to say you're on your own, but when I think of you, there's not a lot of people around you. You know what I mean? You weren't part of a scene. Yes, you're kind of thrown into a scene, but even your band was outside that.

[Danny Elfman]

Totally outside.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, and so what I'm saying is.

[Jordan Peele]

Cause it never would have crossed my mind until I was sitting here talking to you. But I can see where you will leave a classical music legacy that people will actually listen to. Does it make sense the way I'm saying it?

[Danny Elfman]

I hope so. That's why I'm.

[Jordan Peele]

But it blows my mind because I think you can pull it off.

[Danny Elfman]

I don't know.

[Jordan Peele]

No, you can. I know you can. But what's interesting about it is, and I hope you understand the Nuance of the point I'm making. Occasionally they'll drag me down into Chicago to see whatever's going on. I just recently saw Mozart's Requiem. 60 piece choir, 60 piece orchestra, CSO 4 soloists. It was mind blowing tonality. And I read somewhere you have synesthesia. Is that true?

[Danny Elfman]

No. No.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay. Internet, right? People always think I have synesthesia because I think I do, but I'm not sure. The idea is like when you hear music in terms of color, tone.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah, No, I don't.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, so God bless on that. But as I was sitting there watching Mozart's Requiem, I could feel the color in the music. And I've listened to the P. Requiem, I've heard it 20 times, 30 times. Sitting there with the brass and everything humming and everything in tune. It was like, wow, these colors were washing over me.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

So what I'm trying to say on that is, okay, I'm a rock guy. I go down, I'll watch Mozart's Requiem. They can't get me down there for anything else. Right.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

And you talk to people behind the scenes. They knew who I am in Chicago. Right. And they're bemoaning the fact that their audience is aging out. They're worried about their donor money drying up. So I would think classical world would be all over you to bring young people through the doors.

[Danny Elfman]

That's what motivated me. Cause I started touring with this Elfman Burton show doing film music like 12 years ago, still doing it. And we were getting great audiences. And I remember thinking, looking out there and going, I wish I could pull them into classical.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, let me stop you. Do they want it to happen? Are they trying to make it happen? Because my experiences with that world is they don't give a shit.

[Danny Elfman]

I don't know. I just know that's who I'm trying to reach. I try to write music that is simple enough for someone who listens to film music to get pulled into it, but complex enough for someone who listens to classical music to not feel like I'm writing down to them. Because it's easy to write down on a classical.

[Jordan Peele]

But you understand what I'm asking is classical World. They should be all over you to help pull in a generation, multiple generations of people into these beautiful concert halls.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm getting.

[Jordan Peele]

So the answer must be no, because.

[Danny Elfman]

I'm getting commissions still. So it's kind of yes. Starting to. We played a week at Lincoln center with the Elfman Burton Show.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay. I mean, that's no Small gig.

[Danny Elfman]

We had somebody from. Because we were at the Lincoln center, from the opera down. And afterwards, he said to our conductor, he goes, I'd kill to get this audience into our room. Because it was a very vibrant. It was a younger crowd. It was a vibrant audience. They were enthusiastic. And you're right, the classical audience, the gray hair is getting.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, that's the thing. You know the famous story about Stravinsky and the Rite of Spring. And it was nearly a riot. I mean, it's time for classical music to have another riot.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, yeah, that's like.

[Jordan Peele]

People will flirt with me about classical music because of my ability with polyphony. I certainly don't have your chops, but.

[Danny Elfman]

You don't need chops.

[Jordan Peele]

You told me that once in a studio, and I'm forever grateful. That was a beautiful moment between us. But what I'm trying to say is, it's hard for me to imagine that they really want people like us, but they should be begging people like us to bring our audiences in through the door. Because if we love classical music like you and I do.

[Danny Elfman]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

As musicians.

[Danny Elfman]

But they're of two minds. There's part of them that was like, yes, I'd love to tap into them and pull some of their audience in. On the other hand, they're like, no, this isn't what modern music sounds like. Modern music sounds like this. And there's a very set idea of what's modern.

[Jordan Peele]

Let their audience, you know, go to Valhalla. Because you go there and you look around and it's 70, 82, 95. And the occasional young couple.

[Danny Elfman]

Oh. And even out here, when I go, you know, there'll be, like, a modern piece opening the show. There'll be something really interesting. But what they're really there is for Tchaikovsky's Whatever. That's the highlight.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, that's just my commercial that they should be all over you.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, thank you.

[Jordan Peele]

One other thing I want to touch on. This might be my own project, but.

[Danny Elfman]

I have to say, you gotta try it. You gotta do it. You gotta just jump in.

[Jordan Peele]

You can talk me into.

[Danny Elfman]

You just have. I know that you can do it. And you have as much or more musical sense than I have. You can apply that. And just like, you just dive in.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

And do it. And you go, I don't care what they say.

[Jordan Peele]

Cause I did try my. I did try my hand at film music, and I just found the politics drove me insane.

[Danny Elfman]

That was just bad luck.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

I have had bad luck. Yeah. But seriously, I mean, one movie It'll be a dream and the next movie will be a nightmare. And it's just a matter of luck, you know, like something. Some just go so smoothly and you go, wow, that was so easy. And some really are like a war.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

You know, you're like putting on your helmet and you're just trying not to get hit by shrapnel. And it feels like you're. You're on the battleground of World War I.

[Jordan Peele]

So here's.

[Danny Elfman]

Sorry, I just need to say that you need to do this.

[Jordan Peele]

Oh, that's very kind of you. I appreciate that. I do feel like I need to. But getting my band back to the top of whatever the particular mountain that is has been like. So, like, that's called OCD1 and OCD2 is over here.

[Danny Elfman]

Right.

[Jordan Peele]

Plus we got.

[Danny Elfman]

I hear you.

[Jordan Peele]

Plus we got a professional wrestling company to navigate. I don't know if you know about my life in wrestling. That's like your life in the mystic nights. I got this whole other thing going on. Okay, Just indulge me in this. This is the junior psychologist in me. You were born 50.

[Danny Elfman]

53.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, 53. So beetles, birds, California dreaming. Like you saw it. Yeah, like you were here.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. I mean, I actually saw the Doors live. I saw at Hendrix's last concert in the. Where'd she have the bars? At the Aquarius Theater here in Los Angeles.

[Jordan Peele]

There's bootlegs. They did release those shows eventually. I don't know if you've ever heard those. Yeah, those are available.

[Danny Elfman]

I saw Led Zeppelin live. I saw Cream live.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, so you were in that whole thing. You lived the California dream. You saw it. And it is, in a way, in your music, but in a way it's not. Does it make sense the way I'm saying that?

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

What's the part that's not. Can you explain that to me? Is that too psychoanaly an analyst guy?

[Danny Elfman]

I don't know. I know. I know that. I mean, even last night I was. You know. Because I'm finishing songs for my next album.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay.

[Danny Elfman]

And I'm doing the orchestra because I as the last one. I like the idea of pulling orchestra in with rock been. And it keeps taking me back to George Martin. It's like, who are your biggest influences for orchestra? It's like, well, Shostakovich, Prokofie off.

[Jordan Peele]

George Martin.

[Danny Elfman]

Bernard Herman. George Martin.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. Right.

[Danny Elfman]

And it's still. Those Beatles songs are engraved.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

In my mind. And specifically, the first use, really inventive use of orchestra with rock.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. That's true. Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

You listen to I Am the Walrus, Day in the Life.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

These songs, Eleanor Rigby, you know, you're hearing some beautiful orchestrations, you know, in.

[Jordan Peele]

The 60s, some in the 70s, but in the 60s, they had that whole thing where they would do instrumental versions of I love those schmaltzy, like, Beatles with strings like 101 strings, like, it's just the most mawkish, like, suicidal.

[Danny Elfman]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, I Am the Walrus. Like the most bored string players and.

[Danny Elfman]

But on the other hand, on I Am the Walrus. Yes, the string arrangement is amazing.

[Jordan Peele]

Oh, it's amazing. So this is my psychological indulgence. Okay. So I feel like you're the rare precocious child that actually has it foisted. Not aggressively, honestly. His vision on the world. I'm not saying that's what you were after, but did you feel that along the way? Does that make sense?

[Danny Elfman]

No.

[Jordan Peele]

I mean, again, this is my own projection.

[Danny Elfman]

I always felt like an outsider being looked at, like a freak. And that's why these last few years have been so startling for me, you know? And that's why I was so surprised to get your call. You know, I still, internally, I feel like a freak from the freak show, you know, Like, I feel a little bit like Elephant man being brought into, like, the world.

[Jordan Peele]

But don't you see the beauty in that? In that somehow in your bubble, you know what I mean, you brought everyone to you, not through guile and cunning, but just through the beauty of your vision.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, thank you. I don't know even if I have a vision, but I know that.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, let's play this game. When I think of you, I think there's a whimsy in your music. It's sort of life affirming in a weird kind of way, you know, you don't strike me as a depressive sort. You know what I mean?

[Danny Elfman]

Well, I can be, but I try not to let that come out in the music. Okay. Like a lot of us.

[Jordan Peele]

So you at least say that.

[Danny Elfman]

Prone to that, you use the music as your therapy to get out of that.

[Jordan Peele]

That's my bag. But.

[Danny Elfman]

Exactly.

[Jordan Peele]

But what I'm saying is.

[Danny Elfman]

But the whimsy, there's that duality. Cause part of me wants to be heavy and the other part wants to be the opposite.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay?

[Danny Elfman]

You know, when I was writing during COVID when I was holed up for a year, and I said, I don't have any films, I don't have any commissions right now, They've all been bounced. Everything's been canceled. I'm just gonna start writing songs. And by the time I got to 18 songs, but by the time I was at 8, I already said, this is two albums. Because every song was either fast and kind of crazy or kind of heavy and, you know, angry. And whichever it was, the other side was like that. It's like, do something silly. Okay, I'll do something silly. It's like, come on. Is that how you want to be remembered? And it's like. It was like this. Like, yeah. And now that I'm doing the new one, it's like, I don't even resist it. I go, okay. That's what it is. It's going.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah. When you see your influence on the world, you must see it at this point. Right? I mean, I'm not asking you to take a victory lap.

[Danny Elfman]

No, I know, but I mean, with film music, like I said, I said, there's other people who could do Danny Elfman better than me.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

So, yeah. I was aware early on that I would do a score. Pee Wee, Beetlejuice, Batman, Nightmare, Edward Scissorhands, you know, all of these scores. I started hearing bits of it.

[Jordan Peele]

Okay, here's a way to translate. Recently, there was the. Was it the 30th anniversary of nightmare? Right.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah.

[Jordan Peele]

So in my art house where I live in Highland Park, Illinois, they were showing the movie. So I took my kids. My kids are 8 and 5, so I get to watch them react. Now, these are goth children. You know what I mean? They live in a goth castle.

[Danny Elfman]

Yes.

[Jordan Peele]

You know, daddy's a vampire for her first day job. And it was so great to watch my children understand what you were doing. Like, you were communicating to them. Not just, hey, these are cool songs. Like, they were getting the vibe of what you were putting out. That is so cool hearing that.

[Danny Elfman]

Nothing makes me happier in my life than hearing stories like, you just told me about your kids.

[Jordan Peele]

Yeah.

[Danny Elfman]

When I wrote the songs for Nightmare, I spent two and a half years on this with Tim. And when the music was coming, the movie was coming out. Nobody understood it. Disney didn't understand it. They didn't even call it a musical. And the idea was that kids hate this movie. Was the vibe at that moment, it's too scary for kids. I did a press junket, which means 200 interviews on two days. Every single journalist said, it's too scary for kids. Right. And I was like, no.

[Jordan Peele]

So my kids.

[Danny Elfman]

The movie came out, and it went away very quickly, and then it developed its own life. And if anything, I ever worked on. Of those 110 films, I could have prayed for a second life. It was that one. And then 10, 15 years later, to start hearing people's kids and you go to I do it live now and.

[Jordan Peele]

I see kids singing along.

[Danny Elfman]

It makes me so happy because it's like a vindication. I knew when I was writing it, my 10 year old daughter Molly was hearing every song and approving it as I did it. And they'd say, it's too scary for kids. I go, well, it's not too scary for a nine or ten year old girl, so who is it too scary for? And I just love hearing that. Every time I hear that story, it just makes me go, yes, but this.

[Jordan Peele]

Is what I'm trying to say. But they're reacting to you. Yes, it's the movie and yes, it's Tim's characters, but it's your voice in the music and to watch them pick up on that. That's what I'm saying. That's so cool. That's you, that's who you are.

[Danny Elfman]

Well, thank you. Well.

[Jordan Peele]

God bless. Thank you. I don't know where else to go with that.

[Danny Elfman]

Yeah. And you're doing it to me again, becoming like a doddery emotional old man.

[Jordan Peele]

Well, it happens to the best of us. It's part of being in an emo band. You know, we evoke the, the rage and the, and the sorrow.

[Danny Elfman]

But thank you for saying thank you. It makes me very happy.

[Jordan Peele]

Thank you.