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The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
Howie Mandel | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
01:14:36
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- [00:00]
Howie Mandel
Most comedians say if I could just make one person laugh, I'm doing my job. That is so true. And that one person needs to be you. It really needs to be you. There was this comic book shop, and every Friday night I'd see there they.
- [00:14]
Bill Burr
Are in their Doctor who scarves.
- [00:16]
Howie Mandel
Yes. It's kind of a Right. Yes, you're very funny. You are.
- [00:20]
Bill Burr
Well, as Bill's half brother, I got half the welcome.
- [00:28]
Howie Mandel
Thanks for having me, buddy.
- [00:29]
Bill Burr
Thank you. It's. I've been on your show, now you're on my show. I want to start with, let's call it the Elephants in the Room. Okay. You don't have to agree. I'm going to say the elephants, and then you tell me if you want to talk about the elephants in the room.
- [00:47]
Howie Mandel
All right?
- [00:47]
Bill Burr
Okay. Adhd, ocd, germaphobia, they're all connected. Understood. So the reason I want to start there is not to do a comedy bit. It's because it's. It's become part of your story. Do you. Do you feel that way?
- [01:07]
Howie Mandel
I don't know if it's part of my story or just. It's who. It's who I am. And it's interpreted mostly misinterpreted by people who are. Know me as my shtick, my bit.
- [01:26]
Bill Burr
To be fair, because you and I just got to know each other a little bit recently, although we met years ago. I don't know if you remember that we met somewhere in, like, the Regis and Kathy Lee show or something beside each other backstage. You were very nice. It was nice to meet you then.
- [01:37]
Howie Mandel
I'm still nice, but I'm still tremendously conflicted. You know, there's always a conflict going on. Always. I never feel, you know, that's my. That's my resting state is in turmoil.
- [02:03]
Bill Burr
Right. So that's kind of the point I was trying to make, is because I just got to know you a little bit recently when I first heard about this, because I didn't know it, and I think I even tried to hug you or something, and you recoiled. But. But because you're such a comedian in the culture, I think people, they can't help but thinking it's kind of like a. Like an act, but I. I know it isn't, so that's kind of why I want to sort of start there.
- [02:28]
Howie Mandel
Well, I. You know, I was talking to somebody yesterday, and I was. I was close for a short amount of time with Louie Anderson. Do you know Louie Anderson?
- [02:41]
Bill Burr
Louie seemed to like me, and whenever I would see him, he'd want to sit and talk to me for one.
- [02:44]
Howie Mandel
Of the sweetest, smartest, beautiful human beings. And I miss him dearly. But I'm using this as kind of an analogy of how I feel. You know, I think Louis had a lot of turmoil, and I think we all do in. In our lives. And whether it's internal or external, it doesn't really differ. But a big part of Louie's act was his weight and eating, you know, at least when he first started, before he started delving more into maybe family and relationships and things like that. And I remember sitting with him in a restaurant, and somebody came over to the table and tried to be really funny and said something like, you're the fat guy, or, you know, or whatever. And he got really upset and. Which he needed to be really upset and shunned the person that was approaching him. And that's when I realized, like, even for me, you know, he could use his weight and his eating and whatever. And, you know, humor was a panacea. Humor was a tool. Humor is a coping skill. And. And that's not for others to play with. And by the same token, you know, I believe in art kind of works well when the artist is somewhat authentic. You know, I would imagine in music.
- [04:23]
Bill Burr
I've paid dearly for my authenticity. Yes.
- [04:27]
Howie Mandel
But the truth is, you are who, you know, if we listen to your songs and we listen to your music, we should be able to somewhat interpret who you are or how you think.
- [04:39]
Bill Burr
That's kind of what I'm poking around at.
- [04:41]
Howie Mandel
Right.
- [04:42]
Bill Burr
Not to say it defines you, but it's become these things, these letters that people throw around that they don't always necessarily know what they mean.
- [04:50]
Howie Mandel
OCD and adhd, and we'll get there in a second. But what I'm saying is I am who I am. I deal with who I. With what I deal with. And it was never considered humor when I was young, and we could talk about that earlier. You know, I act out, and I kind of am impulsive, and I can get silly, and I can get what may be interpreted at times as funny, but that's. And you know what? It works for me. And it's bought me houses, and it's bought me. And it's also. I learned. And it wasn't my mission by being open about it. It kind of. Cause when I did open up about it accidentally on the Howard Stern Show. We've talked about that before, privately, and I talked about it in my book. When I did open up about it, I was terrified. And Thought that was the end of the world, that people know that I am.
- [05:47]
Bill Burr
Do you think people would think of you?
- [05:51]
Howie Mandel
My first thought, because when, when it happened, I was already a, you know, married with children. I was in my mid-40s. I thought because I'm. I'm going to be 70 this year, so that you're talking about 30 years ago. I thought, number one, my kids who are in school are going to be humiliated by the fact that now the world will know that they're. Their parent is a mental case, has mental health issues. So that was my first thought. My second thought was that I won't be employable. I won't be able to do anything anymore.
- [06:29]
Bill Burr
You think Holly would?
- [06:30]
Howie Mandel
Sort of, yeah. If I tell somebody, you know, as a child of the 50s, if I'm really open about the fact that it's really hard for me to function, you know, any given project tour, anything is somebody's putting up millions of dollars for a TV show or for whatever. Why would you have somebody who is, you know, mentally unstable?
- [06:57]
Bill Burr
A handful.
- [06:58]
Howie Mandel
A handful. So that was unemployable. And then the over washing, fear was humiliation. So it's embarrassing to talk about yourself, you know, especially for somebody who wasn't. I'm not a social. I'm not social.
- [07:18]
Bill Burr
Yes, I know this about you.
- [07:21]
Howie Mandel
So those are the three emotions that kind of overwhelmed me when I, you.
- [07:26]
Bill Burr
Know, I will say, because I've been around your world a little bit in recent times, the people who know you best and the people who love you, they, they speak of those issues with affection. So there's something sweet about that because it says that they love you and they understand that, that navigating those things for you is sort of part of the deal. But that's, but it doesn't, it does in their eyes, it doesn't define you. Which I think is telling the truth.
- [07:56]
Howie Mandel
Of the matter is. And I feel not that I'm. And it is my soapbox mental health. I think at any given point in any human being's life, whether they have a diagnosable issue or not, you're going to have a hard time functioning and you're going to need outside help and a coping skill. And whether that's going to be, you know, the end of a relationship, a death diagnosis of, you know. So I realized that, you know, I cope with all those things as a human being living as long as I have lived along with. When nothing is going on, what's going on in my head.
- [08:43]
Bill Burr
What would be a key coping skill for Someone that's overwhelmed by the environment.
- [08:47]
Howie Mandel
For example, for me, you know, for me, and I think for most people, it's. I constantly don't feel in control of whatever, Whether it's the environment, whether it's, you know, whatever's happening.
- [09:05]
Bill Burr
I think that would surprise people because you've had. You're such an. Even though you're Canadian, you're such an American success story. You know what I mean?
- [09:13]
Howie Mandel
But I'm not in control.
- [09:15]
Bill Burr
Okay, but let me finish my question or my point. It's. It's. You're seen as somebody who's running his world. I mean, you have a world. I mean, I literally refer to. Cause there's some connection here with how we shoot the production in your world. I literally call it Howie Mandel's world. I mean, you have a world. There's all these businesses and people and employees and, you know, I mean, you are a boss, whether you think of yourself as one. And even being on your podcast, you know, your family's very much involved. I mean, it's a family effort. I'm impressed by that.
- [09:48]
Howie Mandel
Thank you. I work really hard ad nauseam to control my environment because I am so cognitively aware of how much control we don't have in everything. So. And because that is so prevalent in my. You know, that's always poking at me. I try really hard to. And I think it's an issue to control, like, even. I mean, you're leaning into the fact that, you know, I have some. The studios and the kids are working at my studio, but that's because I can't. I'm so afraid of working someplace else where somebody else turns on the light.
- [10:42]
Bill Burr
That's a sign of power than. More of a sign of. I need my environment within the parameters of a certain level of control so I can feel comfortable, so I can be my best.
- [10:51]
Howie Mandel
It's not power over anybody else, but it is a sign of power. I want the power to control what goes on in my. In my world. I always want. That's why out of everything that I do in my career, the. The. The most provocative and the place that I always want to land is a standup. Because as a standup comedian, and that's where I start. Let people go. You're the AGT guy, or you're the deal or no Deal guy. The standup is the only moment where I have power. I control. And it's not power.
- [11:25]
Bill Burr
I get it.
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Howie Mandel
I control.
- [11:26]
Bill Burr
I know exactly what you mean. I do. I really do.
- [11:28]
Howie Mandel
There's no cast. I Don't have to wait for a line to. I don't have to throw to a commercial. I don't have to hit a mark. I don't have to even curb my language or my subject matter. But it's really the one place where I can live in the moment, be totally distracted and not be concerned or the concern, I'm using the word concern, but it's terrified of what I don't have control of what could come at me.
- [11:56]
Bill Burr
Sure, I have a theory, and this is a theory I've arrived at later in life. But almost all human behavior, at least social behavior, is defined by trauma, meaning something happens at somewhere in the early years and then that sort of defines a patterning that persists with or without the input of what caused the trauma.
- [12:19]
Howie Mandel
Right.
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Bill Burr
And I read a story about when you were a kid, there was something with Stanford Fleece or something under your skin.
- [12:24]
Howie Mandel
I had these. Yes, they, I had a. These, I got. I. We didn't know, but I got bitten by a sandfly in Florida, the beach. And it laid its eggs under my skin and I had these bumps and when I would scratch them, then the bumps would move and crawl up. It's like, I don't know that, that ca. That's traumatic.
- [12:46]
Bill Burr
I'm not looking for the, for the.
- [12:47]
Howie Mandel
Rosebud moment, but I feel that there isn't a living human being that hasn't been traumatized. I would imagine birth is traumatic.
- [12:57]
Bill Burr
I would imagine there are beliefs. My daughter had a traumatic birth, she's six years old now and if I didn't see it with my own eyes. Do you know about osteopaths?
- [13:09]
Howie Mandel
Yes.
- [13:10]
Bill Burr
So we took our daughter to a really well known osteopath and my wife's mother is very into infant development, believes like, you know, children need to properly crawl in order to do certain things and you know, create core strength and core trust values and you know, solid, really deep infant developmental stuff. Anyway, so the, my mother in law said because of the baby's birth trauma, you need to take her to an osteopath. So I went along, you know, I got this one month old baby and the gentleman laid her on the table and he literally was touching her like this, just very gently, like nothing crazy. And all of a sudden she just, it was like at the exorcism all this stuff started coming out of her like this kind of. If I hadn't seen it with my eyes, I wouldn't believe it. And the guy's like, yeah, that's all the birth trauma. And It's a good thing we're releasing it now because she would have carried this into her life. So whether people believe that or not, I don't really care. But I'm saying is, I believe in what you're saying, you know, that there's a sort of a. Everybody has imprinting from everything. Sure.
- [14:15]
Howie Mandel
And everything is traumatic. You know, somebody says, somebody. Once I heard an analogy about life. You know, it's. We cannot choose our song. We cannot choose.
- [14:29]
Bill Burr
You can write your own, you know.
- [14:31]
Howie Mandel
Right. But in the pantheon of the world.
- [14:35]
Bill Burr
Sure.
- [14:36]
Howie Mandel
If this is a song. But you can choose how you're going to dance to it.
- [14:40]
Bill Burr
Okay.
- [14:41]
Howie Mandel
You know, so that's playing.
- [14:42]
Bill Burr
Are you. Are you Zorba? You know. Right.
- [14:46]
Howie Mandel
But the truth is, it, it makes sense. What you're saying makes sense. Like we are a human being with. I would imagine having. Being a parent now and, and, and I, and I reflect on myself, you know, I've said this so many times, but, you know, I thought I'd grow up and have kids and teach them about the world, but I grew up and had kids. And as a parent, they are teaching me about the world because I'm seeing how humans, other human beings are reactionary and how they react to the environment, how they react to whatever I say or whatever is done, how they're, you know, and you have to imagine there is a soul. You know, you think of a. An infant for me is kind of like a foreigner who is learning the language in that. But they're fully. I would imagine whoever they are and whoever we were was fully formed.
- [15:40]
Bill Burr
I'm sure you saw it with your kids. I mean, I look at my kids at one month old and I could see who they were gonna be and that's who they turned out to be. It was hard baked in them. It had nothing to do with environment.
- [15:49]
Howie Mandel
Absolutely. So you can imagine if the soul is being squeezed through this canal and they can't breathe.
- [15:56]
Bill Burr
And that's glorious to me. I don't know.
- [15:58]
Howie Mandel
It depends what part of you is kind of the whole thing. Anyway, I won't get into that, but I'm just saying birth has gotta be traumatic. Everything is traumatic. Did the moment they learn. Did the moment you say goodnight and you close the light and close the door and walk out of the room for a minute they cry and then they go to sleep.
- [16:20]
Bill Burr
So without looking for the rosebud moment, do you. I guess what I'm looking for is, is there a connection in your mind between comedy and something to do with your Trauma in your life, because we've talked about.
- [16:36]
Howie Mandel
Absolutely.
- [16:37]
Bill Burr
Okay, great. So give me that.
- [16:38]
Howie Mandel
Okay. Two things. If, you know, the two masks of comedy and tragedy are very close together. I think they're exactly the same. They really are. It's just a different reaction.
- [16:59]
Bill Burr
Well, sh. Shakespeare understood this at like some cellular.
- [17:03]
Howie Mandel
Level, and so does Howie. The, the, the thing.
- [17:05]
Bill Burr
Howie Shakespeare.
- [17:07]
Howie Mandel
Oh, tis me. But, but it's.
- [17:14]
Bill Burr
Again, sorry to interrupt you.
- [17:16]
Howie Mandel
It's no problem. No, it's, it's, it's, it's a good conversation. You can. Something tragic can happen. You look at the mask of tragedy, you can cry, and that's your reaction to it. And you cry and you wail and you scream. Something tragic could happen. And some people can laugh or need to laugh, and the laughter is what holds you together so you don't break apart.
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Bill Burr
Yeah.
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Howie Mandel
So you don't break. And, and that's what I feel when I feel emotional pain, when I feel fear, when I feel out of control. I need to, I need to. I, I laugh.
- [18:10]
Bill Burr
So is the, is the. I don't want to assume, you know, in, in my mind, Howie Mandel, the comedian that I saw on television Everywhere in the 80s, like, you were all over the place, right? I saw that person many times. Was that a character that was formed by trauma as a trauma response, or was that a character that you sort of authored?
- [18:37]
Howie Mandel
You're using the term character, but it wasn't much different from me. And, you know, a lot of people.
- [18:42]
Bill Burr
Talk, but you're very calm now. So that's why. Because I only know you personally, this guy.
- [18:47]
Howie Mandel
Because when somebody went, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. I was terrified, you know, and I learned and kind of emulated what I thought I saw from Richard Pryor was authenticity. If I feel like my internal voice was going, okay, okay, all right, okay, okay, okay, what?
- [19:13]
Bill Burr
So it's internal dialogue in which I let out.
- [19:16]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, you know, a lot of people, by the way.
- [19:18]
Bill Burr
I got, I feel like I got that. I understood that somehow it resonates with me because this, I'm, I'm, I'm attaching it to a 40 year old memory.
- [19:26]
Howie Mandel
Right, Right.
- [19:27]
Bill Burr
Like here I'm in some suburbs somewhere watching you on television.
- [19:30]
Howie Mandel
Right.
- [19:30]
Bill Burr
From Chicago where everybody in Hollywood looked fantastic. You know what I mean?
- [19:34]
Howie Mandel
And there you are, terrified, going, okay, okay. And.
- [19:38]
Bill Burr
But I saw that as your internal dialogue. So I did get that.
- [19:40]
Howie Mandel
So, so. But I think that that's why, if I had to analyze, and I don't have to, but if I had to analyze, why I rose to some notoriety as opposed to. In any given day, you go to a comedy club and you could see somebody on amateur night and they don't. It's not because you can't say, that's not funny. You can only say that doesn't make you laugh. You, you can't say that's not good. You can only say, I don't relate to that. I think that as much as people thought it was funny deep inside and without being able to articulate it, people understood that kind of hype. That's how I feel inside. I don't think you could articulate that as in Chicago. Go ahead.
- [20:27]
Bill Burr
No. Well, was it a concern that you weren't funny enough? Is that some on some. I watched a clip of you last night where I don't know what show you were on and it's like prime that era. And you asked the audience kind of a somewhat rhetorical thing, like, you know what I'm saying? And the audience didn't respond. But what you were really looking for was to connect with their own inner dialogue and you pushed them till you got a response. It was really, it was one of those things because I don't think I would have noticed if I was just watching a clip of you, right? I was trying to watch you work, basically, right? So I watched you kind of flip that internal dialogue into their internal dialogue and then create this other conversation.
- [21:11]
Howie Mandel
It might like.
- [21:13]
Bill Burr
You're like. It's like somebody saying, I know I'm a bit crazy and I know this is a bit silly, right? And they're kind of like. And you're like, no, really, like, can you see? Can you see what's happening?
- [21:22]
Howie Mandel
But join me in this. But just. You see what I'm saying?
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Bill Burr
That's my math.
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Howie Mandel
I've asked you, what's your name? What's your name? What's your name? I've asked you three times. You know, I used to do things like that, but that was the truth. The first time that came out, it was like, just, just answer. Come with me, come with me. And it's kind of the same energy, which I've said on many other interviews. It's the same energy. I like that adrenaline and fear that I get from a thrill ride. Even today, I'll go on a big roller coaster.
- [21:48]
Bill Burr
Okay, but how does that jive with being out of control? Being in control, Authoring a character on stage and then throwing yourself in the deep end and not knowing how the.
- [21:58]
Howie Mandel
Audience is multi layered? I'll tell you what the layers Are the layer is when I'm on a roller coaster and I'm 30 stories in the air and going over that hump and being dropped down, and I'm going, wow. You know, which. If I was sitting there like I was just now. If I'm sitting there, you're out of your mind, right? When you're going. When you're. But not on a roller coaster, nobody's looking at you. And I'm not worried about touching the dirty thing because I'm so in the moment.
- [22:29]
Bill Burr
Is it a form of freedom, then?
- [22:31]
Howie Mandel
It's a form of distraction. It's a form of. I'm in that. And when somebody says, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. And I'm standing there in front of. On television or wherever it is. So I'm going to the exact opposite, which I think opposites are the same. It's. It's so humiliating. It's so terrifying.
- [22:56]
Bill Burr
What's humiliating? I don't understand.
- [22:58]
Howie Mandel
Because somebody goes, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. And then thousands of people that I don't know are going, this is okay, okay.
- [23:09]
Bill Burr
But I don't. You lose me on the humiliation part. So that's where.
- [23:13]
Howie Mandel
Because if I don't deliver whatever their expectation is, and I can't be in your mind and I don't know what you expect, I don't really know your sensibility, then it's embarrassing. Right.
- [23:29]
Bill Burr
Because I'm interested in this conversation. So it's not to. I'm not being contrarian. I want to sort of give you.
- [23:35]
Howie Mandel
Go ahead.
- [23:36]
Bill Burr
My response to the trauma of walking on stage because I felt the exact same anxiety and the exact same sense of overwhelm. And on top of that, I had a musician father who judged that I would never be as good as he was. So I had this double thing going on of like, dad over here in the audience over here. For some reason, my innate response was to. I don't care what you think. It was weird. It was nothing. I would have guessed that I would have arrived at. But I eventually wound. In the first couple of years, I wound around to, I really don't care what you think.
- [24:10]
Howie Mandel
So to that end, the. It's. It's. And that's why I talk about layers. I do what I do when I'm performing and on stage is what I think is funny. I'm really, really, really just entertaining myself. I really am.
- [24:37]
Bill Burr
There's a joke there, you realize.
- [24:39]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, but I say that. I always say that, you know, most comedians say if I could just make one person Laugh. I'm doing my job. That is so true. And that one person needs to be you. It really needs to be you, who.
- [24:52]
Bill Burr
For you, is the ultimate comedian in making themselves laugh.
- [24:56]
Howie Mandel
I used to cherish every waking moment I spent with Gilbert Godfrey, right? And Gilbert. Gilbert was a guy who was incredibly underrated. And what I loved about him and what we shared together as friends was the fact that the response didn't. And still for me, today doesn't have to be. That's funny. The response has to be. It could be angering a group of people, making a lot of people feel awkward, making. Just being able to paint those shades of humanity. My favorite moments, beyond being on stage, even more than being on stage. Gilbert and I, I used to hang with him in New York, and we used to go to the Carnegie Deli, okay? And do you remember the Carnegie Deli? You could sit. You could sit. If you and me went to the Carnegie Deli, we wouldn't get. We couldn't get a table for two. We would just say, two. And they'd sit us at a table with 38 tourists, right? And everybody's sitting there, and their corned beef sandwich comes, and they take a picture of their corned beef sandwich. And it was kind of funny for us. We would go there, and you'd sit shoulder to shoulder with strangers. And I'd say to Gilbert, like, how you doing? And he'd. And he'd begin. He'd go, I don't know if it's right in. In my sphincter, there's a. Like. I don't know if it's a lesion or something, but all night long, it's like a fluid. It's like a fluid that just soaked the sheets and people. And you couldn't. You can hear the. The tapping. They would drop their fork and they drop their. And it was just so funn. I go, really? And he'd go, you know what? And I think it's an infection, because when I tasted the fluid, it's like. It was. I think it's pus. And that would just be the beginning. And then I'd gag and I threw up on myself. And then my ass is bleeding and there's pus, and I'm throwing. And I'm just giving you the. It would go on until people would drop their plates, and we would just see how long it would take to empty the table. And to me, that had the same joy as being on stage by myself. And the truth is that he. And there's a few other Comedians that I know that kind of. We share that need to entertain ourselves. And it doesn't have to be what you would think is a joke.
- [27:31]
Bill Burr
Is it a pathological urge, do you think?
- [27:37]
Howie Mandel
I think it's an urge to control the narrative. You know, it's an urge to. This group of us who don't feel they're in control. And I kind of. The seed of that goes back to Laughter is contagious. I've told this story before, but my parents.
- [27:57]
Bill Burr
I only want fresh stories, but go on.
- [28:00]
Howie Mandel
Well, you can edit this out, but my parents used to laugh all the time. My dad was very funny. My parents. There was a good sense of humor in my family, but I didn't get it because I was too young to understand what they would laugh at. I'd hear them listening to the late night talk shows, and I didn't understand the jokes. The first time I was cognizant of what they were doing was I was maybe 4 years old and they were in the living room watching Alan Funt and. Alan Funt. What was the name of the candid camera?
- [28:33]
Bill Burr
Thank you.
- [28:33]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, Candid camera. And he explained what he was going to do, and it was like a surprise party. He. He set up a joke, like. And. And the joke was. It doesn't sound that funny. But he was. He pretended he was a boss. They hired faux receptionist. The Marx young ladies would come in and he'd say, you have to answer the phone. You can't miss a phone call. I need you. I'm gonna go out. I can't miss the phone.
- [28:57]
Bill Burr
And then, like Lucy, they would overwhelm.
- [28:58]
Howie Mandel
Them or they'd overwhelm. They tied a rope to the leg of the desk. And when the phone rang, when she went to reach for it, they pulled it from the other side from another wall, and the desk went away. And you'd see her face. And knowing this was gonna happen, that anticipation was. I turned to my parents. We were all waiting. It was like a surprise party. And then when it happened, the woman like. And it was a guttural laugh that we all shared together. And I think even to this day, as a man who's about to turn 70, I look for that kind of shared experience of watching somebody else. You control the narrative. Go ahead.
- [29:34]
Bill Burr
No, so that explains this. The inner ID in you, relating to the inner ID in them. That's kind of what I saw in this clip that I never caught before with you. It's like a revelation of, like, here's my inner id. As messy as it is. You know, come along for this journey, we can have a little bit of laugh in here. Does it make sense?
- [29:55]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, but I feel bad.
- [29:57]
Bill Burr
I'm not diminishing it.
- [29:58]
Howie Mandel
You're not diminishing it. But when I bring it to the surface and talk to you about it, I mean, it's very self serving, you know, and that's. Go ahead.
- [30:11]
Bill Burr
I'm not trying to interrupt. But my point is, you know, you know, more professional comedians than I do, I mean, they're all selfish bastards that I've ever met. I've yet to meet a professional comedian that is not a selfish bastard.
- [30:23]
Howie Mandel
Thank you.
- [30:26]
Bill Burr
Well, it works for you guys, does it?
- [30:29]
Howie Mandel
You know, the truth of the matter.
- [30:31]
Bill Burr
Here's, here's what I told my wife last night because I told her we were going to talk today. And I said, you know, the difficulty in being around a guy who's an ace comedian is you can't get a laugh in edgewise because they don't laugh at your jokes. You know, it's like it's really hard to get a laugh out of a.
- [30:48]
Howie Mandel
Professional, but here's the thing, to get a laugh. But amongst comedians, the truth is, it's because I think it's because we see the humor and I think that I appreciate. You're very funny. You are. I think that as well as Bill's.
- [31:07]
Bill Burr
Half brother, you know, I got half the.
- [31:10]
Howie Mandel
But the thing about what I'm going to say to you is, and I think you can kind of relate from a musical standpoint, when somebody is playing music, you probably listen to that music and you hear, oh, I'm terrible.
- [31:26]
Bill Burr
I'm the biggest snob in the world.
- [31:29]
Howie Mandel
Are you a snob or even if you're not a snob, even if you really enjoy something, it's not like you're gonna go woo and just clap along. You are gonna go, oh my God, that is a brilliant collection and order of notes.
- [31:45]
Bill Burr
Sure.
- [31:45]
Howie Mandel
And what a brilliant idea that they decided to put this rhythm under that, with that. You see it so clearly and understand it so clearly that you can appreciate it, enjoy it in a different way, then maybe just the audience might enjoy.
- [32:03]
Bill Burr
It, but I'm still a snob.
- [32:05]
Howie Mandel
By the same token, it probably is selfish, but by the same token, if I see something that I think is brilliantly funny and crafted incredibly well, I kind of am so inside it that I appreciate it, love it, will probably repeat it to everybody I know and go, you gotta see what this guy did last night or this girl did last night. And this is. But laughter because I'm so. Because I take it apart and see it for what it is. It doesn't elicit laughter unless you surprise me with it. Unless I'm not expecting to see it. I don't know that I'm about to listen to something or see something that might be funny. If I don't know and it hits me off guard, then that's why I'm always. I always say to people, even on agt, that people don't appreciate or understand that the comedian. You know, when somebody comes out on stage and they're singing a song that. Mostly on agt, that they didn't write, so they're just kind of copying something. And then they can play for their two minutes and then finish. And then everybody goes like this. The comedian is constantly throwing these compositions at you which come from their soul. Nobody else wrote it. It's truly who they are. And they don't. They can't wait two minutes for you to go that. To elicit.
- [33:40]
Bill Burr
I see.
- [33:41]
Howie Mandel
I see. And if that sound doesn't come, it's really apparent to everybody else to maybe this isn't good. That's why you have to do it in an audience.
- [33:53]
Bill Burr
If you're bombing on stage, not that you've ever bombed.
- [33:56]
Howie Mandel
I do bomb, and I've bombed this week. I bomb all the time.
- [33:59]
Bill Burr
Okay, so what is your go to if you're bombing?
- [34:02]
Howie Mandel
I'm actually at this point in my career comfortable with discomfort. I like the idea. I. I know that. That bombing forces growth and creativity to get out of that dark hole. So I go. I will drop in on clubs three, four times a week to just try things out.
- [34:32]
Bill Burr
I didn't know that. So you go around town and just drop in always. Oh, I didn't know that. I'd love to come see you sometime.
- [34:36]
Howie Mandel
I'd probably be somewhere.
- [34:37]
Bill Burr
I won't be someplace tonight.
- [34:39]
Howie Mandel
Cause I take over tonight, bottom of my heart.
- [34:40]
Bill Burr
I assume you're such a big star, you just don't do local gigs.
- [34:43]
Howie Mandel
No, I do. That's how I know. In the middle of a rainstorm, I'll drive out to the Ice House. Or I was at the Laugh Factory a couple times last week. Or the. Because my process. I need to be in front of people to know. To know that I know that I think it's funny. But then to realize that, okay, I can't deliver this, or this isn't being received the way I. Yeah, I get it. I think. But I also won't go there and do. When I drop it in the clubs. I, I won't do the Bobby voice. I won't do, you know, things that people expect me to do because I love the process of the writing. I love the process of just trying something.
- [35:36]
Bill Burr
That's admirable because I didn't know that about you.
- [35:38]
Howie Mandel
So you should appreciate me.
- [35:41]
Bill Burr
I, I. You're here. Comedy star, TV star, film star, entrepreneur, producer, Hollywood walk of Fame. Is it enough? Well.
- [36:00]
Howie Mandel
First of all, the word star doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't.
- [36:06]
Bill Burr
What word would you use then?
- [36:08]
Howie Mandel
I'm working.
- [36:10]
Bill Burr
For example, I, I did a thing last night on the Internet where I was revealing a next guest for this show in real time, and I started to refer the person as a star. And I said, well, that doesn't quite qualify, because so many people are stars these days. It's like Internet stars and instafamous and all this. So I referred to the person as a true star because I was having to search for a qualifier in current American culture of what people are, of actual accomplishment. And I would place you in the ranks of people of actual accomplishment.
- [36:44]
Howie Mandel
No, I think I'm a person who, in any given day.
- [36:48]
Bill Burr
Don't be humble. Come on.
- [36:48]
Howie Mandel
I'm not being humble. I'm being real. I have a perspective. I'm a lot older than you and the perspective.
- [36:52]
Bill Burr
But you don't look it. That's the confusing part.
- [36:54]
Howie Mandel
It's because we keep our hair. We keep our hairlines as.
- [36:59]
Bill Burr
I really want to be your doctor is what I want.
- [37:01]
Howie Mandel
We keep our hairline. No, you don't want to be my doctor. I'm telling you the truth of the matter is star, notoriety, fame is really nothing. It's like, you need to, you need to.
- [37:18]
Bill Burr
I know this. I mean, I'm with you. So.
- [37:20]
Howie Mandel
Okay, so. But what I'm saying is, you know, as important as you think you are in the moment.
- [37:28]
Bill Burr
Okay, but that's what I'm after. Do you feel important enough?
- [37:31]
Howie Mandel
Never.
- [37:32]
Bill Burr
So what is important enough for you?
- [37:34]
Howie Mandel
I'm just trying to survive. I swear. I'm just trying to survive.
- [37:37]
Bill Burr
So there's not so much an aspirational goal at this point, as much as I want to keep my head above water.
- [37:42]
Howie Mandel
But what's the aspiration? Like, what is if I really break it down? And I break it down because it was. You know, I've talked many times about when Richard Pryor used to come to the Comedy Store. He's my inspiration and, you know, and a lot of young comics at the time, he inspired and A lot of the comedy you see today is like that. But everybody who was anybody used to come to the Comedy Store to see this because we knew it was a happening at the time. The number one box office, so that's worldwide. Around the world, the biggest movie star in the world that used to show up every night. And it was such a big thing. Like people were in awe. If they were, if our culture was bowing down to people, they would have bowed down to Burt Reynolds. Okay, my 30 year old's kids have no. They have no. If I said Burt Reynolds, they would have to google them. They don't. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. It doesn't.
- [38:44]
Bill Burr
So is your point. If it doesn't have sustain, therefore I don't get caught up in that. I'm in the moment.
- [38:50]
Howie Mandel
And I think that we need to. This is gonna sound too. I'm learning that the importance, you know, people who are seeking fame, and I tell this to young people all the time, people who wanna come up to you.
- [39:06]
Bill Burr
Well, you're in it in these shows, I mean.
- [39:08]
Howie Mandel
Well, I'm doing something that I enjoy. And as luck would have it, the things that I enjoy are being viewed by others. And maybe for a moment, you know, it's distraction for them. Maybe in the moment there's people who are watching this right now. You know, maybe they're enjoying it. Maybe they think I'm full of. Maybe they want to turn it off. Maybe they can't stand anything I'm saying. There are so many different things. Most people don't give a. Most people don't care. And what I've learned through therapy is that I just need to survive, cope and do the best that I could do in the moment.
- [39:52]
Bill Burr
But is that a trauma response?
- [39:54]
Howie Mandel
Probably, yeah, probably. You know, everything.
- [39:57]
Bill Burr
I guess what, I'm sorry, but guess what I'm after is at what point do you, handsome as you are, look in the mirror and say, I've done it, I've won the race, I can relax a little bit. It's not that I don't want to be never. Is it because of this town makes you nuts or because the four year old.
- [40:15]
Howie Mandel
It's not even show business. It's. It's just never. I've never. I've. I've just never. I wasn't in Hollywood and I was still selling carpet or whatever.
- [40:27]
Bill Burr
Were you a good carpet salesman?
- [40:28]
Howie Mandel
The best.
- [40:29]
Bill Burr
Can you give me your pitch?
- [40:31]
Howie Mandel
Anything. But talk about carpet, I'm colorblind. I just needed you to enjoy the time with me and buy whatever I was selling you.
- [40:40]
Bill Burr
I see.
- [40:41]
Howie Mandel
And that's what it is right now. I don't think I'm the best comedian either. I don't think I'm the best actor, I don't think I'm the best at anything. I just try my best and at any given moment I'm trying to be an interesting interview right now.
- [40:54]
Bill Burr
So if somebody sat down and said, you're better than you think you are, here's my proof.
- [41:01]
Howie Mandel
Doesn't matter.
- [41:02]
Bill Burr
It doesn't matter.
- [41:03]
Howie Mandel
No, I have to think.
- [41:05]
Bill Burr
Have you ever done this psychological technique? I've had my years in therapy, but you, you sort of imagine you're speaking to your four year old self. Have you ever done that?
- [41:14]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, my therapist had me do that.
- [41:16]
Bill Burr
Great. So what would you say to your 4 year old self if your 4 year old self knew that the future you was never going to feel comfortable? Like, what would you say to that child empathetically, like it's going to be okay. Or, or just keep moving, kid, keep moving.
- [41:35]
Howie Mandel
Because everything, and you may find this too, the older you get everything, you're incredibly, you cannot predict, you can't predict your life, you can't predict what you're going to do. You can't predict an outcome, you know, good or bad. And everything that I thought, like, if you want to just narrow it down to the career, just the career alone. When I started in comedy and comedy started with me, you know, I didn't start, I didn't want to be a comedian. I didn't care, I didn't know. But in my world, comedians ended up getting movies and sitcoms and people who were in movies and sitcoms didn't want to do commercials. The last thing they wanted to do, which was the dredge of whatever that hierarchy is, is a game show. If I thought that my biggest, brightest shining moment would be the host of a game show, I would have said, are you kidding me? In fact, when it came to me, I was turning it down. So everything I, I don't. What I've learned to realize and what I would say to my 4 year old self is as time goes on, as much as you're growing and changing, so is culture.
- [43:02]
Bill Burr
Yeah.
- [43:03]
Howie Mandel
So you don't know. You can't make decisions or worry about the way you're gonna do something, how something is gonna be perceived, what is going to happen because you're not only moving, but the world is moving.
- [43:14]
Bill Burr
Can I give you a take on you as a game show host? Is that fair?
- [43:19]
Howie Mandel
Yeah.
- [43:19]
Bill Burr
Okay. And I think it's particular maybe to my generation, so maybe it wouldn't land for other generations. But I think what's been cool about your career is if you'd asked somebody along the way, they would say, well, he's just a comedian. You know what I mean? And then people would debate, as they do, whether or not you're funny.
- [43:40]
Howie Mandel
Right, right.
- [43:41]
Bill Burr
I mean, that was the standard. Right? He's funny. He's not funny, good or bad. Something about your mainstreaming to American culture. I think, sort of it created a balance that didn't exist there before, which was like you belonged somehow into this greater American family, and your value was greater than whether or not he's funny or not funny. Does that make sense?
- [44:06]
Howie Mandel
It does, but it's not, as.
- [44:12]
Bill Burr
You.
- [44:12]
Howie Mandel
Know, I went into Deal or no Deal, kicking and screaming. You know, I didn't.
- [44:16]
Bill Burr
I would imagine.
- [44:17]
Howie Mandel
I mean, and not only because of what I thought being a game show host would be perceived as far as what 2005 with the landscape was for people who are. But also because I didn't understand how you could make an hour of television of having people pick a case and then me say, open the case. Like, I didn't even have. I didn't have a trivia question to ask somebody. I didn't have a skill that they were going to comment on, like, how many times over and over. You got two more cases, you have three more cases. Open the case. In fact, while it was happening.
- [44:56]
Bill Burr
See, that's funny.
- [44:57]
Howie Mandel
It is. It is funny. It really is. But in the moment, as I'm just sure. Treading water, trying not to drown.
- [45:09]
Bill Burr
What did your wife think when you went home. When you went home and said, terry's your wife, right? Yep, Terry. Lovely person. I've been blessed to meet her. I got this opportunity. What'd she say?
- [45:22]
Howie Mandel
Oh, she's the one. I always say yes to everything in life. Cause I have fear of missing out. And I also jump at things impulsively. It's the first thing that I ever said no to. And I was in the midst of leaving, retiring. And when I say retiring, it was like I wasn't gonna go out on the road anymore. I wasn't selling tickets.
- [45:43]
Bill Burr
I didn't know. So you're in your mind. You're kind of.
- [45:45]
Howie Mandel
I was getting kicked in the nuts. My soul was being crushed every day. It was just embarrassing. I was sitting in. You were how old in 2005? You guys do the. You do the math. I don't know the math.
- [45:58]
Bill Burr
Close to 50.
- [45:59]
Howie Mandel
I'm 70. Yeah, I was close to 50, but it just wasn't. It was really hard. I wasn't incredibly successful at the time. You know, careers have ebbs and flows. And I just said, like. And I have other interests, as you know, in real estate and dropping in three, four times a week to comedy club. So I could do that. And I can get my. I'm still doing it. Comedy. I'm not. I don't have to sell tickets.
- [46:23]
Bill Burr
I get that. Yeah.
- [46:25]
Howie Mandel
So I. I said, that's what I'm going to do. When they came to me with this, I thought, this is the nail in the coffin of my career. And she knows me better than anybody and protects me more than anybody and loves me more than anybody. And she was the one that said, you better go do it. And I go, but it's nothing. She goes, you better go do it. You just need to do something.
- [46:49]
Bill Burr
Was there an inner rationalization there? Meaning, does she have a reason behind that?
- [46:53]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, because she knows that the more idle I am, the less I have to do if I don't have a place to go during the day and I'm waiting at night to do that.
- [47:02]
Bill Burr
You meant idle. Idle when you said idle. Idol.
- [47:05]
Howie Mandel
Sorry, I'm not an idol, but the more. The less I have to do, the more.
- [47:11]
Bill Burr
So she's a proponent of stay busy.
- [47:13]
Howie Mandel
And you're going to be fine of me staying busy.
- [47:17]
Bill Burr
That's what I mean.
- [47:18]
Howie Mandel
Yes.
- [47:18]
Bill Burr
Personalizing. Because she's your wife.
- [47:20]
Howie Mandel
Yes. So she said, just go do it. And it doesn't matter if it's embarrassing, just go do it. Just be busy. Be amongst people. Try to be creative. It's kind of that question that you asked earlier about, like, when you're bombing, how do you cope? She knows that if this was really hard for me, it's kind of like exercise, you know, if you. One more sit up, you're gonna get closer to that six pack. If you're in the situation, how are you gonna turn it around?
- [47:48]
Bill Burr
So walk me through, from an existential point of view, the comeback. Right? You know what I mean? Because in America, if you're able to have these second and third acts, you know, Sinatra and, you know, these. There's these legendary American cultural moments. Elvis.
- [48:03]
Howie Mandel
I don't know if you can compare the Sinatra come back to Deal or.
- [48:07]
Bill Burr
No Deal, but let me have my indulgence here.
- [48:10]
Howie Mandel
Okay, go ahead.
- [48:10]
Bill Burr
Because that's what the show's for, right? I'm trying to make myself laugh here.
- [48:15]
Howie Mandel
Go ahead.
- [48:16]
Bill Burr
No, because I Find it really fascinating because one of the things that I want to establish if this show is successful is that we have. We have learned to view success in the American paradigm incorrectly. Like I was saying before in the world, you and I grew up in different generations, but close enough. You're known for this one thing. I sing. You make people laugh. Well, when that stops, get the hell out. Right? You're no good anymore. In fact, the shadow of what you. They take your highest shadow along the route, and then they cast that over and you say, look at you. You're pathetic. Get out. So those in our culture who can find some deeper resolve or courage to pivot, to find a new voice, to somehow find rejuvenation, it's a very, very, very rare thing. And what you've accomplished is a very, very rare thing. It's a short list of people who have had a true second or third act at the peak.
- [49:27]
Howie Mandel
So I understand everything you're saying, except I'll tell you the frustration of that for me right now. And I love Deal or no Deal. Loved it. And probably the biggest success to date in my career of, you know, the kind of.
- [49:45]
Bill Burr
And you know how I know that? Because my family who lives in Florida, my extended family, they watched. So when I would go down. No, but I'm saying when I. Because I don't live in that world. You know what I mean? I'm a weirdo, right? So I know it's happening because when I go visit my brother, it's on.
- [50:02]
Howie Mandel
Okay?
- [50:02]
Bill Burr
And that's how I know you're reaching that part of the world that I grew up in.
- [50:06]
Howie Mandel
And by the same token, I'm on agt, which is America's Got Talent and Canada's Got talent and on YouTube and Thailand's got Talent. Yeah, but I'm not on Thailand's Got Talent, but Canada's got it. There is Thailand's Got Talent. You know that. It's in every country.
- [50:22]
Bill Burr
I just made that joke. And I did not know that.
- [50:24]
Howie Mandel
It is the number one syndicated show in the world. Not syndicated format. So the format means Simon Cowell owns it. He made more money from that than he ever made from music. You know, and at one time, he had 10 people in. I mean, maybe five people in the top 10 on Billboard worldwide, as far as, you know, One Direction, all these groups. But that's another conversation. Here's the thing. I'm a standup comic. Standup comedy is what I do and continue to do. And as I told you three, four times a week, maybe Five, six times a week, I'm on stage doing it as a standup comic. I got recognized and, you know, was given opportunities. Whether those opportunities were sane elsewhere, whether it was Deal or no deal, whether it was movies, whether it's agt.
- [51:20]
Bill Burr
You were on the Match Game.
- [51:22]
Howie Mandel
I was. I was on Match Game. I was on Tattletale. I was on everything. The point that I'm making is not a day goes by when I'm in public where somebody says to me, you know, you should do comedy. I used to love when you were a comedian and that kind of that. You know, I love that you know me as the Deal or no Deal guy. I love that people watch me on agt. But my love, you know, regardless of. You're a really good interviewer, this is a wonderful thing that you're doing, and I wish you nothing. And you're already having success, and it's not by surprise. You're really good at this.
- [52:00]
Bill Burr
Thank you.
- [52:00]
Howie Mandel
But you're a musician.
- [52:03]
Bill Burr
Oh, yeah. If you come up and say, I love your podcast, and they don't even know I play music, I would fall over and die.
- [52:08]
Howie Mandel
If this thing becomes as big, if not bigger than Joe Rogan. And they go, you're the podcast guy. Oh, you should do. You should do music. You were great. Remember Smashing Pumpkins? Remember that? So that's what I deal with each and every day.
- [52:22]
Bill Burr
So is it a Faustian bargain for you?
- [52:24]
Howie Mandel
Maybe, except that I love all those other things. It's just that you forget my other art or the art that is closest to who I am and what I need and my. It doesn't. The fact that you don't know. I do. It doesn't really affect me, except that's what I am, you know, that's who I am. That's closest to who I am.
- [52:46]
Bill Burr
Yes. I was struck because I was doing my research on you. You did a movie with Ted Danson.
- [52:53]
Howie Mandel
Yeah.
- [52:54]
Bill Burr
Fine mess. Do you remember the poster?
- [52:57]
Howie Mandel
Yeah. Standing there.
- [53:00]
Bill Burr
Well, he seemed to have you in some sort of like.
- [53:03]
Howie Mandel
Oh, that was with the maid suit.
- [53:04]
Bill Burr
But it says on the poster. And I thought this was kind of weird foreshadowing because the movie came out like 80 somewhere around there.
- [53:10]
Howie Mandel
I think that's the box office. $80. I think that's what it.
- [53:15]
Bill Burr
The poster literally says. Anguished by anxiety, plagued by paranoia, confounded by confusion. You need comic relief. Fast, fast, fast. That's on the poster?
- [53:26]
Howie Mandel
Yeah.
- [53:26]
Bill Burr
Me, I was like, wow, that's a weird foreshadow.
- [53:30]
Howie Mandel
It wasn't foreshadow. I was in the midst of it, too. That was a great opportunity to work with Blake Edwards.
- [53:36]
Bill Burr
Oh, my God. That's one of the reasons I brought it up. I mean, what an interesting person. Well, enjoy it.
- [53:42]
Howie Mandel
No.
- [53:43]
Bill Burr
Okay, tell me why. Not funny.
- [53:46]
Howie Mandel
I was terrified. He was.
- [53:50]
Bill Burr
Did he hold Peter Sellers over your head?
- [53:52]
Howie Mandel
No, I held Peter Sellers over my head for those on. He did all the Pink Panther movies and he did a lot of.
- [54:00]
Bill Burr
Was he funny, Blake Edwards?
- [54:02]
Howie Mandel
No. No.
- [54:03]
Bill Burr
Did he understand? He understood comedy, obviously.
- [54:05]
Howie Mandel
Obviously.
- [54:06]
Bill Burr
The Party is, to me, one of.
- [54:07]
Howie Mandel
The greatest, best movies ever. Ever.
- [54:10]
Bill Burr
I mean, that movie is so.
- [54:11]
Howie Mandel
I know the same guy.
- [54:13]
Bill Burr
Burning num nums. It's like still.
- [54:14]
Howie Mandel
So watch that movie and watch a fine mess and watch the.
- [54:17]
Bill Burr
So what happened to Blake Edwards? Let's talk about that.
- [54:20]
Howie Mandel
I don't think he was at a happy time in his life. I think he was suffering. He had back pain at the time. I don't know. I can't, you know, remember after that, like years after that. Remember he came on the Academy Awards in a wheelchair? I don't remember. Yeah, I think he did, but he. I've regaled in my book and on other podcasts the story that he told me that sticks with me. And it's the story. It's this one story that he told me. And he told me the story about this guy goes to. He goes to the psychiatrist and he's just crying and can't even sit in the chair. He's in the fetal position. And apparently he's been seeing the psychiatrist for a while. And he goes, I just came in this last time to tell you that I'm gonna end it. I can't do it. And he had been going to the psychiatrist who had tried regular therapy, medication, hypnosis, every thing that a therapist, a psychiatrist could have in their toolbox. And the guy said, that's it. You know, I appreciate you trying to help me and being here for me, but I can't. I can't. I'm suffering. I just can't take any more. But I just wanted to come one more time and just say thank you and I do appreciate it. And the doctor said, you know, I don't want you to do that, but can we try one more thing? And he said, the circus is in town. And I think it's. I don't remember the clown's name, but this Baffo the clown is this world renowned clown that has made everybody and anybody laugh and laughter is the best medicine. In fact, he has been, whether you Speak English all over the world. He's made people almost die laughing. He really has. And I know that if you laugh, you know, cortisol will be released, and I would imagine that'll bring you out of your cloud. Just try. Let's just try. Laughter. Come see Boffo the world. And I have two tickets tonight. I'll go with you.
- [56:40]
Bill Burr
That the therapist is going.
- [56:44]
Howie Mandel
And the guy looked up through his tears and he looked at the psychiatrist and he said, I am boffo.
- [56:57]
Bill Burr
That's a good joke. I didn't see that one coming.
- [57:00]
Howie Mandel
I don't know, but I think it's kind of real. But I believe he told me that story because Blake Edwards is baffo. I'm baffo. You know, I think that under this mask of being silly and funny and. And light and in this chaos and panthea of laughter, you know, we're just trying to hold back our tears.
- [57:25]
Bill Burr
So why didn't you enjoy the process of working with him?
- [57:28]
Howie Mandel
Because he was unhappy and he wasn't.
- [57:31]
Bill Burr
Able to give you.
- [57:32]
Howie Mandel
And it wasn't that good a movie. And I think that he was at the end of his career, though, right afterwards. He did. What's the movie he did? He did a movie right after that was a huge hit. I think he did 10 right after with Dudley Moore.
- [57:49]
Bill Burr
Yeah, okay.
- [57:50]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, he did. I had his. His low point. I hit him at the point. Maybe I hit everybody at their low point. I did another movie. One of my first movies is a movie called Gas. It's with Donald Sutherland and it was done in 1980. It's written by Dick Wolf, who went on.
- [58:08]
Bill Burr
He was a TV guy now la.
- [58:11]
Howie Mandel
What's it called? Law and Order. Right. And a whole. You know, he's. But the first thing he ever wrote I did, you know, but I haven't been lucky with writers and directors, except on St. Elsewhere.
- [58:23]
Bill Burr
Okay. I found this fact about you surprising. So you tell me if it is a fact. Dungeons and Dragons player.
- [58:30]
Howie Mandel
No.
- [58:30]
Bill Burr
Where'd that come from? Do you know?
- [58:33]
Howie Mandel
No, but sometimes I'll ask.
- [58:35]
Bill Burr
It's in your bio. Yeah.
- [58:37]
Howie Mandel
Then you know the truth of the matter is I've put a lot of things in my bio and my Wikipedia because I find that funny. Just to put odd little.
- [58:45]
Bill Burr
Have you ever played Dungeons and Dragons?
- [58:46]
Howie Mandel
Never. In fact, I have been fascinated. Are you at Dungeons and Dragons?
- [58:50]
Bill Burr
I used to play when I was a kid.
- [58:51]
Howie Mandel
Yeah, I know. I'm fascinated by it.
- [58:54]
Bill Burr
It's bigger than ever.
- [58:56]
Howie Mandel
They're gonna do a television show now. I think they are as a game show. I don't understand it. I don't have that focus. I think you'd have to focus.
- [59:08]
Bill Burr
It's a very slow thing.
- [59:10]
Howie Mandel
That's the problem.
- [59:11]
Bill Burr
And you have to roll dice.
- [59:13]
Howie Mandel
I see.
- [59:14]
Bill Burr
You'd hate. Because other people have to touch the dice. You'd have to have your own 20 sided dice.
- [59:19]
Howie Mandel
There was a. I lived in Santa Monica for a while and there was this comic book shop and every Friday night I'd see there they are in.
- [59:28]
Bill Burr
Their Doctor who scarves.
- [59:30]
Howie Mandel
Yes. It's kind of a.
- [59:32]
Bill Burr
Right.
- [59:32]
Howie Mandel
Yes. And I wander in.
- [59:35]
Bill Burr
Especially back then, it was like, who are these?
- [59:37]
Howie Mandel
That's exactly right. And my wife gets mad at me because my curiosity is my fuel. And I always want to know what's going on in there. What are they doing and how. So I used to stand and watch Dungeons and Dragons, watch people play and be fascinated by how they looked.
- [59:52]
Bill Burr
Here's one that you'll. Roses are red, violets are blue. I'm schizophrenic.
- [60:00]
Howie Mandel
So am I. That's mine. And I had dice.
- [60:04]
Bill Burr
I'm not that clever.
- [60:05]
Howie Mandel
No. But dice came on my podcast. Andrew Dice Clay.
- [60:10]
Bill Burr
By the way, I've still never met Dice and I'm in awe of Dice. So if you can make that happen.
- [60:16]
Howie Mandel
I will make that happen.
- [60:19]
Bill Burr
When you look back at you as the young comedian, do you have any. I don't. Empathy is the right word. Do you see something that you can only see now looking back? Because you know that that style of comedy was very frenetic and you're.
- [60:36]
Howie Mandel
The fear was frenetic. So I. I don't know that I'm different as much as I don't have as much fear. But I try to get fear. Today when I go on stage. You wish you were scared, but I make myself scared. I will purposely.
- [60:49]
Bill Burr
How do you make myself scared?
- [60:50]
Howie Mandel
By creating. By purposely veering off whatever plan I have. By purposely reacting to walk me through.
- [61:00]
Bill Burr
The mind of a pro comedian. There you are.
- [61:03]
Howie Mandel
We're all different, but I can talk about myself.
- [61:05]
Bill Burr
Well, just indulge me. So there you are in Montana. You're at the Elks Lodge tomorrow.
- [61:10]
Howie Mandel
I'm in Fargo.
- [61:11]
Bill Burr
Okay, beautiful. So we're in Fargo.
- [61:14]
Howie Mandel
Not in this month.
- [61:15]
Bill Burr
We're in Fargo.
- [61:16]
Howie Mandel
Yeah.
- [61:17]
Bill Burr
There they are. America, they love you. They know you. Okay. And you're going along and you know you've got your 40 bits that you could reach in your pocket anytime. You're gonna get guaranteed laughs.
- [61:29]
Howie Mandel
Yeah.
- [61:30]
Bill Burr
Okay. We all know our little buttons. We can press, right? And you decide halfway through the set, you know what? I need to get my blood going. Walk me through something that you would do.
- [61:40]
Howie Mandel
So what'll happen is, you know, there'll be a noise or, you know, somebody yells something out like they do at every concert, at anybody's concert music.
- [61:51]
Bill Burr
Or what would somebody yell at a Howie Mandel comes.
- [61:53]
Howie Mandel
I probably don't know. Like, I'll. I. I'll hear, hey, and I'll stop and go, what was that? Is there a bell?
- [62:02]
Bill Burr
That was beautiful.
- [62:03]
Howie Mandel
Well, I'm in a bonus R. Can.
- [62:06]
Bill Burr
We open the case now?
- [62:07]
Howie Mandel
How did that happen?
- [62:08]
Bill Burr
I don't know. It was a magical wow.
- [62:10]
Howie Mandel
So I'll hear a bell. But then going off on that tangent isn't as safe as going to something that.
- [62:17]
Bill Burr
Because you don't know where it ends.
- [62:18]
Howie Mandel
No, because I. I'm going. What did you just say? You know, it could be you suck.
- [62:24]
Bill Burr
Can I tell you a funny bit?
- [62:25]
Howie Mandel
Yeah.
- [62:26]
Bill Burr
So I had this exact experience at a theater in New York. My band was kind of on the down, and so the audiences were particularly hostile at that time. And same thing was between songs. I was talking and I heard a guy yelling, like. And I sort of did one of these to the audience. Like, what did he say? And he. And I said, I want to hear what he's saying. And he said, I think you're terrible and you suck and you need to get off the stage. And everybody heard him because I calmed the crowd down. It's a theater. So I said, why don't you come up here and say it on the microphone?
- [63:04]
Howie Mandel
I love that.
- [63:05]
Bill Burr
And he came up and he cut, like, a wrestling promo on how terrible I was and how I'd lost my way in my musical life in front of my crowd.
- [63:13]
Howie Mandel
And how did you feel?
- [63:16]
Bill Burr
I love wrestling. So what I did was I let him walk off the stage as if he was victorious, because, of course, he went off the stage like a victor. And then I let loose on the microphone.
- [63:26]
Howie Mandel
So that's exactly what you're doing. And you're in a totally different mil. You. But not really. It's the same as me.
- [63:33]
Bill Burr
It's all comedy. But.
- [63:34]
Howie Mandel
But. But what I'm saying, it's all life. And whether you laugh at it, whether it scares you, whether the audience feels like, oh, my God, I just witnessed. It's exciting. I love that. You know, I have a guy next door, my buddy. Do you know Tom Green?
- [63:51]
Bill Burr
Of course.
- [63:52]
Howie Mandel
I love Tom.
- [63:53]
Bill Burr
Somewhere. I have Tom Green's number in my phone.
- [63:56]
Howie Mandel
I Think he's here.
- [63:56]
Bill Burr
I've hung out with Tom in. I should say hi. I've hung out with Tom in Vegas. Last time I saw him, he had a great time. So Tom was the another Canadian, right?
- [64:04]
Howie Mandel
Yes.
- [64:05]
Bill Burr
So you guys do hang together.
- [64:06]
Howie Mandel
We do.
- [64:07]
Bill Burr
You have to admit Tom.
- [64:08]
Howie Mandel
Have Tom walk into here if he's right here.
- [64:10]
Bill Burr
No, he's not welcome on my show. But go on.
- [64:13]
Howie Mandel
But that'll be a nice moment of you throwing him off the show. What I'm saying to you is he was the king of doing something where you would say, yeah, I can't believe.
- [64:26]
Bill Burr
He just did that.
- [64:27]
Howie Mandel
I can't believe he just did that. Is it funny? Is it gross? He's known for humping a dead moose. You know, that was the first thing. Yeah, on mtv.
- [64:35]
Bill Burr
Speaking about trauma, couple things. We're into the bonus round.
- [64:43]
Howie Mandel
Okay.
- [64:43]
Bill Burr
Okay. Ready? I've loved talking to you. Thank you so much for indulging me. As someone who comes in direct contact. As someone who comes in direct contact with contact. As someone who comes in direct contact with the American public, what do you really think of America?
- [65:03]
Howie Mandel
America has given me.
- [65:06]
Bill Burr
No, what do you really think of America?
- [65:09]
Howie Mandel
Well, I don't think America is any different and I'm going to get hate for this online than where I come from. I'm from Canada and I really believe people are people. The problem, if there is a problem with people, and I do believe there is, I believe the problem with people is we have a tendency. Most people don't do what you and I do, and that is play for a living. But go, go. They don't go. And most people, I can't tell you how many times I land in a town and say somebody in their 50s picks me up to take me to the theater or wherever I'm playing and they tell me what's California like? Or I've never been on an airplane or I've never been. So people have a tendency, we have a tendency like these little animals that get in little pods of people who are like minded, who are in the same socioeconomic and they trade information and even they all have their personal algorithm. Even before the Internet, everybody that was in my little family circle in my little suburb, that's an algorithm and that's what they know and I can't. And you know, I remember when my, my mom was living in Florida and she would say, you know, everybody hates so and so. Everybody in your condo, everybody hates so and so. So I have a feeling that most people just are not aware. Aware of what it's like. I think the interview.
- [66:49]
Bill Burr
When you see that you don't judge it is what I'm trying to say or asking.
- [66:53]
Howie Mandel
I don't judge it. I'm aware of it.
- [66:56]
Bill Burr
Okay.
- [66:56]
Howie Mandel
I'm. I'm. I'm aware of.
- [66:58]
Bill Burr
Yeah, because I had. I've had a tendency at times to. To see that, and it makes me cynical and I'm so. I was curious because you see how you.
- [67:06]
Howie Mandel
I can't react to it, but it's kind of like that Kendrick Lamar song. They not like us. And the truth is that they're not. And. And I realize that they're not. And you're not like me, and I'm not like. We have similarities, but we are victims of our circumstance and of our environment, and most people outside of show business don't. We are forced. I'm forced to go to Fargo and sit in a restaurant in Fargo, and when I'm waiting for the show during the day, go to the mall and watch people interact and talk to people. My parents. I come from a normal suburban. I grew up in an apartment. My parents never met anybody from Fargo or from Florida or from. You know, so it's like. I realize they don't know, and so.
- [67:59]
Bill Burr
It'S an empathetic take.
- [68:03]
Howie Mandel
If it's. It's more of.
- [68:05]
Bill Burr
Because you're not a cynical. You're not as. Cause a lot of people.
- [68:08]
Howie Mandel
That's part of my. I can't control it. I'm not like it.
- [68:12]
Bill Burr
But you haven't taken it out on the public like, you're. You're generally a positive comedian.
- [68:17]
Howie Mandel
No, I don't think I'm positive.
- [68:18]
Bill Burr
You don't think you're positive?
- [68:19]
Howie Mandel
No. Think I'm. To be totally honest with you now, I am so medicated that I'm numb. I. I am. I wish I had more.
- [68:28]
Bill Burr
We'll have you back without the meds, and we'll see how that goes.
- [68:31]
Howie Mandel
I don't know that I can make it back without the meds. I need. I need the meds, but the meds are. I. I don't. I don't feel pain. I don't feel fear. I don't feel. I'm. I'm kind of dead inside. I am. My family complains about it.
- [68:49]
Bill Burr
I don't know what to say. I mean, you seem lovely to me.
- [68:52]
Howie Mandel
So I'm lovely, but I'm a lovely, soulless dead person. I don't know if that.
- [69:01]
Bill Burr
Well, that takes us right into.
- [69:03]
Howie Mandel
No. Just because I'm so empathetic. Maybe. And overly sensitive that I need to be.
- [69:09]
Bill Burr
I see where you're going now.
- [69:10]
Howie Mandel
I'm numb because. Pharmaceutically numbed.
- [69:14]
Bill Burr
Right.
- [69:15]
Howie Mandel
So that I don't go all over the place.
- [69:19]
Bill Burr
Okay.
- [69:20]
Howie Mandel
You know, I had to. I always have to find that, you know, they're always upping it and lowering it and whatever. My meds.
- [69:26]
Bill Burr
Yeah. I kind of went a different route. And I don't know if it was the right route.
- [69:30]
Howie Mandel
It's never. It's.
- [69:31]
Bill Burr
I live. I live in it. Sort of a constant anxiety, but we.
- [69:35]
Howie Mandel
Get comfortable with discomfort.
- [69:38]
Bill Burr
Yes. But when you talk about the alchemical process of transmuting trauma, pain, experience, and enlightenment into art, you know, that's an interesting Willy Wonka machine that goes on inside.
- [69:52]
Howie Mandel
And that was my biggest. So it was either survive or take medication. I was so afraid that I wouldn't have the art I wouldn't have. But it. I don't know that if it's affected my artistic endeavors. I don't know. I don't know.
- [70:09]
Bill Burr
Right.
- [70:09]
Howie Mandel
But I hope it hasn't. And I'm still, you know, paying the rent, so I guess I'm okay.
- [70:15]
Bill Burr
Okay. We're at the very end. Thank you. This has been really fun. I hope you've enjoyed it. Has it been painful?
- [70:21]
Howie Mandel
It's not painful at all. I love you, buddy. I love your art. I think you're. I've gotten a chance to meet your beautiful family. And I yours. And when you meet somebody, when you listen to somebody and you enjoy their music and their performance, and then you meet somebody and they turn out to be even a better person than you can imagine, it is kind of thrilling. Cause those are few and far between. You know, they say, don't meet your heroes. Don't meet people that you're a fan of, because you will be disappointed. You are not a disappointment. And in fact, I have been watching this particular show since it began. And I told you off camera, but I'll tell you on camera, you've interviewed some of the people that I've had on my podcast, and you've done a much better job. And even with those particular people, the audience at home has decided you've done a much better job and you've gotten much bigger numbers than I ever got, and deservedly so. You are very good. And I don't think from listening and watching Smashing Pumpkins for the years I have, I would have known that you are so. Such a good. Because it's a skill that I don't really have. I'm just personally interested in Talking to people. But you have a real skill here.
- [71:41]
Bill Burr
I don't know where it comes from. That's the weird thing. I sort of just found myself like Zelig, in this world, our final go. What is your fulfilled wish? And what I mean by that is, setting aside everything we've discussed, the thought, the obstacles and the inhibitions and the medications, is there a fulfilled wish where you see yourself in your mind's eye of a place of arrival?
- [72:10]
Howie Mandel
I have been.
- [72:12]
Bill Burr
Just try.
- [72:13]
Howie Mandel
No, no, I'm answering you.
- [72:15]
Bill Burr
Okay.
- [72:15]
Howie Mandel
It's just.
- [72:16]
Bill Burr
I don't mean. Don't try to answer me. I'm Just. Try to do the visualization.
- [72:20]
Howie Mandel
The visualization, if you could believe it, and it's also a therapeutic skill set, is to try to live in the now. And I try to make now as painless as possible. So it's not. I don't wish for something in the future, because wishing for something in the future, in my negative kind of view.
- [72:40]
Bill Burr
Of life, that creates more anxiety.
- [72:42]
Howie Mandel
Well, because I'm not there. I wish I had that. I wish I wasn't here. I wish I was there, so. Or I wish I had. Then I'm. You're ruminating on the past. So my wish is that this moment is as painless as possible, as productive as possible, as good as possible. Like, I'm doing my. I'm having a good moment where I won't look back on this moment and go, oh, why did I do that? You know? So it's just. I'm taking moment by moment. It's just I'm climbing this ladder, and I just want this rung to not snap.
- [73:19]
Bill Burr
You're supported by the Zen masters. Be in the now.
- [73:22]
Howie Mandel
I'm trying. I read a lot about the power of now.
- [73:26]
Bill Burr
Yeah. Eckhart Tolle. Yeah. You reminded me of something I've been telling my young son, who's about 9, you know, because he's starting to realize what adulthood looks like. You know, they're very early glimmers of that. And I'm conscious of not putting my trauma on my child. And I told him the other day, just be happy. Wherever you are, even standing in the line, just be happy.
- [73:47]
Howie Mandel
That's all I saw. Seinfeld said living is. He said something beautiful. He said, wasting. Try to find a way to waste time with something you enjoy in that given moment, because that's all it is. Just waste your time. Waste it with something you enjoy. I'm enjoying myself in this moment. I'm enjoying talking to you for the most part. I haven't thought of where I have to go after this. I haven't thought of what I did before this. You kept me in the moment. I enjoyed this conversation. I enjoyed my time here.
- [74:21]
Bill Burr
Thank you.
- [74:21]
Howie Mandel
And so this was good therapy for me. And now I'll go and leave and be miserable.
- [74:29]
Bill Burr
We're done.
- [74:30]
Howie Mandel
Thank you.
- [74:31]
Bill Burr
I give you the fist bump.