← The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
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- [00:00]
Paul Stanley
Do you want to see, like, a Kiss? Like a Kiss biopic?
- [00:04]
Gene Simmons
I'm on the fence about it. I would rather it never happen than happen badly.
- [00:12]
Paul Stanley
I don't want to talk much about your musical partner because, you know, he says enough on his own. But when you started getting other things, you know, like, I called it, like Gene with the ponytail in the movies. Gene, how'd you. How would you feel about that? Did you see him as being like, remember. Remember when Keith Richards was very critical of Mick Jagger? Like, hey, you're in the Rolling Stones. Like, what the hell are you doing? Did you have a similar reaction?
- [00:37]
Gene Simmons
Very much. I felt betrayed.
- [00:41]
Paul Stanley
So let's start here. I love this word, kerfuffle. Do you know this word? There's a recent kerfuffle about you guys playing again.
- [00:48]
Gene Simmons
Yes.
- [00:49]
Paul Stanley
So I just want you to walk me through that a little bit. The context being you're gonna do a thing in Vegas and you guys gonna play it unmasked.
- [00:58]
Gene Simmons
I believe yes is the word you use every year.
- [01:01]
Paul Stanley
We did Kiss cruises, and fans love them. I mean, just. I know 10 people have been on the Kiss cruises. They love them.
- [01:11]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [01:11]
Paul Stanley
And said the most fun.
- [01:12]
Gene Simmons
The most fun. And so much fun for me and for us. Honestly, when we first were toying with the idea, I was like, who's going to go on a Kiss cruise? It turned out many. And we did what they wanted. We listened and created something special. That's what we're doing in Vegas. In terms of why, why not?
- [01:47]
Paul Stanley
You know, I don't care about the why. Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude to me. The why's. When people get into that stuff in our business, they're looking at the wrong end of the telescope.
- [01:57]
Gene Simmons
Well, also, it's a reflection of a mindset that I'm not a part of. You know, many people live going why instead of why not.
- [02:12]
Paul Stanley
That's.
- [02:14]
Gene Simmons
That's the opening of the door. We're celebrating 50 years. There's always a reason to celebrate, but it's 50 years since the Kiss Army. And it's also a way to stay connected to our fans, the people who ask us why we're doing it, or the people who wish we wouldn't do it. In the same way that there are people who would say, you know, why did you continue on as a band? Well, sure, you know, so it sounds like a great, fun time to. To keep going and to. To continue a tradition. It's basically a Kiss cruise in Vegas, on. In a hotel.
- [03:11]
Paul Stanley
Sure. I'm not a Doubting person by nature, because I just think cynicism is just. It's overplayed in American culture. So the question is not asked with cynicism.
- [03:21]
Gene Simmons
Comes from bitterness.
- [03:24]
Paul Stanley
Agreed. So I'm just curious of your mindset.
- [03:30]
Gene Simmons
It.
- [03:30]
Paul Stanley
Was it similar to when you guys continued after the farewell tours? It's just like. It's our. It's our book to author, and if we want to keep adding chapters, it's all good.
- [03:39]
Gene Simmons
Totally. We said that we're. We're done touring. We're. We're. We're done in those Personas. Yeah. That we shouldn't pick up instruments together. Says who? Yeah, we're not. We're not. And if we did, we're allowed to, but we're not going against what we said.
- [04:10]
Paul Stanley
Okay.
- [04:12]
Gene Simmons
And, you know, I'm not. I'm not going to be on stage. I see videos and go from the last tour and go, boy, was that great. But we're not doing that. You know, we're. We're. We're celebrating where we are today and our past with the fans who we love and they love us.
- [04:37]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. I mean, many. In many ways, you're. It's. It's a blithe way to put it, but your business model is very much its own thing. You guys have always kind of created your own ecosystem.
- [04:48]
Gene Simmons
Always.
- [04:49]
Paul Stanley
And. And it's worked very well for you. Other people. It wouldn't work well for. I don't think it would work well for us. I don't. Were just wired differently.
- [04:57]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. We've always. We've always done things the way we thought they should be done.
- [05:04]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [05:04]
Gene Simmons
Certainly in the beginning, we had less control over making those kinds of decisions. But Bill, our coin, our first manager, he never managed anybody in his life, but it felt right.
- [05:17]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [05:19]
Gene Simmons
And there are other cases of that happening over the years.
- [05:22]
Paul Stanley
And this might be an unfair question to ask you because, you know, Gene's always sort of. And Gene, when he was here and he sat in that exact same chair, I challenged him and said, you know, in a. In a way, you're. You're always talking about money as kind of a weird cover for how you really feel. I'm not asking you to speak for Gene, but when. When people have tried to always label Kiss as being about money, I always thought this sort of missed the point, and I even challenged Gene on that. So what was. What was always your mindset on that?
- [05:54]
Gene Simmons
It's never been about the money. However, if there is money to be made, it should go to us.
- [06:03]
Paul Stanley
But people Overlook the fact of how much money you guys blew, too. I mean, you guys blew it. I mean, no one's ever blown money like you guys. I mean, the production, if people really knew what that stuff cost, you know.
- [06:16]
Gene Simmons
We, we learned through mistakes and, and nobody has to take up a collection for us. Our rent is well paid. But, you know, the idea of being like money hungry or anything, like, it's not the case. I've always done this, and we've always done this ultimately, truly, because of the joy it gives us. I was so fortunate. I grew up in an era that took us into the next era, but I grew up seeing Jimi Hendrix play for a couple thousand people. Led Zeppelin, the who with Buddy guy opening in 69, Humble Pie, Derek and the Dominoes, all these bands.
- [07:14]
Paul Stanley
That's.
- [07:15]
Gene Simmons
That's what I love, and that's what I wanted to be. I never started doing this with the intention, I'm going to be a millionaire. Back then, Millionaire was like, you know, the Monopoly man, you know, whoa, you know, that. That's incredible. But it was never about that. It was about, I want to be that guy. I want to be. I want to be up there.
- [07:39]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [07:41]
Gene Simmons
I want to be Steve Marriott. I want to be. I want to preach.
- [07:44]
Paul Stanley
Who wouldn't want to be Steve Marriott?
- [07:46]
Gene Simmons
I want to be up there preaching rock and roll, you know, with, with everything.
- [07:50]
Paul Stanley
When I interviewed Sharon Osborne, I didn't know that she'd gone to school with Steve Marriott. So she knew him as a kid, when she was a kid. And we talked about that voice that came out of that body.
- [08:01]
Gene Simmons
Boy. I mean, a Les Paul on him looked like a bird land. I mean, it was, you know, but gosh, you know, you had to, you had to experience that lot. Yeah, but that's, that's what it was about for me. Yes, there's money generated and I want it, but it. That was. That was secondary, but it was important. If there is going to be money, it belongs here.
- [08:34]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, I guess I. I guess what I'm after, and I'm not doing a good job of it, is is fans tend to do this weird thing. They try to make these kind of arguments. It's like it's either about integrity or money, you know? And my argument is, but why, why can't it be about both? Isn't. Isn't. Isn't success where the artist gets rewarded for their effort and they maintain their integrity? In essence, they're executing their vision. Isn't that the ultimate win?
- [09:03]
Gene Simmons
Totally.
- [09:04]
Paul Stanley
Because if you don't generate resources in the music business, you won't have any power because the people who actually control the world will. Will put you in positions of which you don't have any choice of. Integrity. Does that just translate the way I'm saying?
- [09:18]
Gene Simmons
Yes. And money. What money gives you is the ability to stop worrying about money and it gives you freedom.
- [09:28]
Paul Stanley
What was the Duke Ellington thing? I know how to make a man a millionaire. Give him a dollar and he wants 10, and once he gets 10, he wants 100.
- [09:34]
Gene Simmons
It's, you know, money. Money is a. Is a. Is a great thing, but it. It gives you the opportunity. I. I think integrity is following your compass doesn't necessarily mean doing the right thing always. God knows we've done some, you know, some. We've fallen on our asses a few times. But money gives you the ability to survive that and to continue.
- [10:10]
Paul Stanley
So walk me through the. I'm not interested in the. In the financial aspect of the pop house deal, but I'm interested in, you know. Gene, of course, paints this rhapsodic picture of what you guys going to do. I like to get the more practical vision of what you have. Of course, when you did the last show at Madison Square Gardens, there was the. The characters were flashed up and there was a lot of chatter about that. But what's your aspirational hope for let's call it Kiss in your absence?
- [10:40]
Gene Simmons
Firstly, what was it? Madison Square Garden was something where there was some dissension or contention even among us because it didn't represent what we were going to do. To create what we are doing takes years. And that was rather than taking literally, it was just the idea that we will continue on.
- [11:08]
Paul Stanley
Sure.
- [11:08]
Gene Simmons
Pardon me. In another form. What do I hope that there's a. That the core of this immersive experience is an accurate representation of the band at its best. Because nobody can be us better than us. So if there is a way, and there is, to create something lifelike and I'm beyond realistic, something that you buy as real and then surround it with something unworldly, that. That takes us into another realm, which most bands can never do. You know, we're. We're not, you know, the. The idea was never to recreate a concert where you go, doesn't that look like a real amp? You know, that that's. It's. To create something that it parallels what Kiss is, which is bigger than life and takes the imagination on a. On a journey.
- [12:24]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. So it makes sense to me that there would be a posthumous life for the band as is you know, it's like I always say, when I was a kid and we would watch the Wonderful World of Disney in color on Sunday night at Grandma's house, we didn't know that Disney was dead. We had no idea. We thought he was a living guy.
- [12:46]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [12:46]
Paul Stanley
Because he was presented as this character who ran this wonderful world called Disney and Disneyland.
- [12:52]
Gene Simmons
Good point. Yeah. I. I think that I was part of creating Kiss, but I can also step away from it. And it lives on as that makes.
- [13:08]
Paul Stanley
But I mean, as a fellow artist, that makes total sense to me. That. But basically.
- [13:15]
Gene Simmons
Pardon me to answer.
- [13:16]
Paul Stanley
No, no, no. You. It's. It's to you. I want to hear from you.
- [13:18]
Gene Simmons
No, but. But doesn't that make sense? Because whether or not your Kiss and you can live on visually as an artist creating music, your music lives on.
- [13:30]
Paul Stanley
Well, that's the real important thing.
- [13:32]
Gene Simmons
Sure.
- [13:33]
Paul Stanley
So I'm sure that's at the heart of your desire is like, that people are going to hear these great songs.
- [13:39]
Gene Simmons
And it's connected to these wonderful Personas.
- [13:43]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [13:45]
Gene Simmons
That enhanced the. The experience.
- [13:48]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. We see it now with Star wars and Star Trek and, you know, like, there's this. These other lives that they didn't anticipate when they first created.
- [13:57]
Gene Simmons
Totally, totally. You can only create within the capacity and the technology. And as. As that broadens.
- [14:10]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Gene Simmons
Other things become possible.
- [14:14]
Paul Stanley
This is just a curiosity question. I'm sure you, you know, the Queen movie went on to be the most successful band Bio music biopic, I think, in the history. I'm sure people have proposed it to you. Do you want to see like a Kiss? Like a Kiss Biopa.
- [14:33]
Gene Simmons
I'm on the fence about it. I would rather it never happen than happen badly. No, we don't need Kiss meets the Phantom 2. But yeah, it would be. I would love to see almost be.
- [14:51]
Paul Stanley
Interesting as like a. Like a Netflix miniseries or something, if they were willing to put up the money and do it. Right.
- [14:57]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [14:58]
Paul Stanley
Because, you know, most people are going to gravitate towards the OG period because it's obvious. It has all the typical movie arcs, you know, this and this. Right. All this typical stuff that they want in a movie. But I find your. Your, Your middle period just as fascinating.
- [15:11]
Gene Simmons
I. I have to say that the truth is far more interesting than anything that somebody could write. What we've gone through where Gene and I in particular started, because we started before Kiss.
- [15:31]
Paul Stanley
Wicked. Lester.
- [15:32]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [15:33]
Paul Stanley
And I'm still somewhat haunted by the she. The original she version with the flutes.
- [15:37]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. Yeah. That. That came. Who knew that came from a time where we were just so lucky to be.
- [15:47]
Paul Stanley
We would just thrill recording at night. Right. Wasn't that the thing you would go in at night?
- [15:51]
Gene Simmons
We would go in. We were going in on an Electric lady, which was, you know, that's like Olympus. Mount Olympus.
- [15:59]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. Jimi Hunter.
- [16:00]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [16:00]
Paul Stanley
With Eddie Kramer.
- [16:01]
Gene Simmons
Yes. And we would go in Wicked Lester was with Ron Johnson, this is this other producer. And we would record on spec time, which meant basically that if there was an artist who was book time from noon until 8 o' clock at night, we would show up at 7, they might go on till 12 or 1 o' clock in the morning and we'd sit around for four or five hours and then go in and use that. That empty time.
- [16:36]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [16:36]
Gene Simmons
So. And during that time, truly, if there was a song that came out with a banjo, we put a banjo on a song. You know, I never heard the word euphonium. We had a euphonium, you know, on one of the songs it was, it was what's hot today? You know. Oh, put a sitar on it.
- [17:00]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. No one sings like you, but I know you have your, your singing idols. I mean we talked about Steve Marriott. Who are some of the other singers that you thought, I wish I could sing like them.
- [17:11]
Gene Simmons
Well, you only had to see Robert Plant in 1969 to bear witness to. To something where you.
- [17:22]
Paul Stanley
It's unfair, isn't it?
- [17:24]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. It was like you gobsmacked. But you're also. You're just trying to figure out how in the world is he doing that. Just this. And exuding this sexuality and. But his voice was insane over the years. Obviously, like everybody, the voice either deteriorates or changes. But at that, that pinnacle it was.
- [17:53]
Paul Stanley
Are those kind of first four years, five years. His voice is almost without peer.
- [17:59]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [17:59]
Paul Stanley
And live. I mean, not just live in, live in the studio.
- [18:02]
Gene Simmons
Oh yeah.
- [18:02]
Paul Stanley
You hear some of the outtakes and it's the same. It's not like he fixed it in the mix.
- [18:06]
Gene Simmons
No. What he was doing effortlessly was mind boggling to me because at that point my voice didn't have a lot of range and I, I couldn't figure out how he was opening that door in the back to, to get to that voice.
- [18:20]
Paul Stanley
How did you figure out that upper voice in yours? Because it's, it's very unique.
- [18:26]
Gene Simmons
Just clicked during the 80s and the 80s, suffered for it in some ways because all of a sudden I found this way, you know, of getting into a head, head voice, a combination.
- [18:41]
Paul Stanley
You hit some impossible notes on those.
- [18:43]
Gene Simmons
Songs, I mean, ease, you know, I mean, just crazy, crazy notes and not necessarily needed on those songs, but it was like, hey, I can do.
- [18:56]
Paul Stanley
I could do it. Some of that.
- [18:57]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. So, yeah, I listen to some of that now and I'm incredulous at those notes. But, yeah.
- [19:08]
Paul Stanley
Listening to, like, forever, and there's like, I can hear your voice, like.
- [19:14]
Gene Simmons
And it was effortless, really. Oh, totally. I could do that for hours. I mean, we would go in the studio and I would sing something to just. Let's do that again. Let's do that again for hours. It's an interesting story. It was an interesting time for me. I had known Ron Nevison for years, the producer, and we finally went in to work with him on an album that some people like and some people don't like. But I was thrilled to go in with him because Ron had done Zeppelin, he done Heart, he had done the Babies, he had done a lot of work with really good singers. Bad Company and I'm in there first. I. I played him the demos. He said, you made my work easy because we're just gonna basically copy the demos. But when I was singing and I'm thinking, he's going to take me to some place I've never been, and I said, I. I sang one of the songs and I said, let's do it again. And he goes, why? And I said, well, because I can do it better. And he goes, who's going to know? And I was like. It was kind of like wa. I was like, really? But, yeah, I mean, Robert Plant was very, very important, as was Steve Marriott as a performer and as a conduit, as a preacher. That. That was Naughty Holder, right?
- [20:50]
Paul Stanley
Never thought about that with you, but that makes sense.
- [20:52]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, just those. Those foghorn voices.
- [20:56]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [20:57]
Gene Simmons
And the way I wasn't going to be out there, although we did it with Kiss, so I got a chance to do it, you know, with just a microphone and swinging the mic. But I was going to be, I guess, more Steve Marriott. I played a guitar, so I'm going to be the guy talking. But, yeah, I wanted. I wanted to preach. I wanted to. I wanted to talk to the people in the very back row.
- [21:22]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, well, there's those great YouTube clips where it's just you talking.
- [21:26]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. Possessed. Possessed. Yeah.
- [21:36]
Paul Stanley
How do you rate yourself as a songwriter? Do you. Are you comfortable as a songwriter? Do you feel strong as a songwriter? I can't. I can't think of where you've really talked about it much. Maybe I didn't see it.
- [21:48]
Gene Simmons
I was thinking last night, and I've thought this before, that over time, over years, I became a technically better songwriter. But I will never write something as good as Come on and Love Me or Love Gun. Songs that didn't know what you can and can't do. Songs that came from you and weren't labored over. Yeah, she's a dancer, a romancer I'm a Capricorn and she's a cancer. I saw her picture in a music magazine when she, you know, I couldn't do.
- [22:26]
Paul Stanley
But you were living it too. That's a different mindset too.
- [22:28]
Gene Simmons
Well, even before I was living it, I was fantasizing living it. I ultimately wound up living it.
- [22:35]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [22:35]
Gene Simmons
I mean, a song like Room Service is me just going wee. You know, this is unbelievable. You know, the unpopular kid is in the candy store, you know. But. So before we had that kind of attention. Sure. Strutter. I saw those girls, those women on the street. They wanted nothing to do with me. They were with the Dolls or whoever, you know, was. Was playing at the Mercer Arts center or going to Max's. So those kind of songs came from. I wanted to be there. I wound up there. And, you know, those were joyous songs. Songs of, you know, celebrating debauchery, but also celebrating debauchery and being.
- [23:29]
Paul Stanley
Well, if you write the line, put your hand in my pocket Grab onto my rocket.
- [23:33]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [23:33]
Paul Stanley
Now I. I heard that when I was about 10. And I didn't know what it meant, but I knew it wasn't good.
- [23:38]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, well, you know, good guy, Miss Molly sure like to ball, you know.
- [23:43]
Paul Stanley
It's amazing he got away with that.
- [23:46]
Gene Simmons
Totally, totally. But hey, I. Peaches and Herb. There's one perfect fit and this one is it. And that's like a love song between. Well, what are you singing about? You know.
- [24:05]
Paul Stanley
So were there people that you look to to teach you how to songwrite? Because like, most rock people don't go to school to learn how to write songs. They listen to somebody or.
- [24:17]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [24:18]
Paul Stanley
So who. Who were your songwriting kind of goobers?
- [24:25]
Gene Simmons
Basically what I was doing was hearing songs that I liked and trying to write my version. Scott Muni, the disc jockey in New York on New. He had a. A program once a week called the. The British Power Hour. And he would play like the top 10 in England. I was a huge Anglophile. That was really the music that I loved. God love Jefferson Airplane and all that kind of stuff. I had no time for that. To me, what was going on on the other side of the pond Was so interesting. So, for example, I heard a song called Fire Brigade by the Move.
- [25:07]
Paul Stanley
Don't know that one.
- [25:08]
Gene Simmons
Oh, it's. It was big hit over there. And. Well, I couldn't find that song or afford that song. I wrote Firehouse, you know, and it's basically the same. Get the Fire Brigade, you know.
- [25:26]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [25:27]
Gene Simmons
And get the Firehouse.
- [25:28]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [25:29]
Gene Simmons
So I. I had a tendency to pattern songs on songs that I liked, and that's. That's a good thing.
- [25:38]
Paul Stanley
There's a lot of kind of 50s changes in your. In your. In your chordal work, but it doesn't sound 50s the way you do it. You put your own spin on it. But to me, quarterly, there's a lot of kind of.
- [25:51]
Gene Simmons
Well, there was also. I loved. I mean, I love great rhythm guitar playing, whether it's Richie Havens or Pete Townsend.
- [26:01]
Paul Stanley
Richie Haven's an incredible rhythm player.
- [26:03]
Gene Simmons
It's insane.
- [26:04]
Paul Stanley
You ever try to play the way he played with the. The one chord and the thumb.
- [26:07]
Gene Simmons
That thumb?
- [26:08]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, that thumb. You know how you tune. You know, he tuned the guitar just to one chord. So you basically play one finger.
- [26:12]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, yeah. But once, you know, he would also.
- [26:16]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, he'd add a little bit of.
- [26:17]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, but Richie Havens, I mean, when Evan, my oldest, was playing guitar, I said, listen to Richie Havens, because this. Yeah, this is great, but this is where you play some of those.
- [26:30]
Paul Stanley
Richie Haven's albums are really, really well produced. Really cool. Cool. Sounds beautiful.
- [26:35]
Gene Simmons
So as far as what we were talking about, songwriters, songwriters, you know, you get into Carol King, Jerry Goffin. You get into Barry Mann and Cynthia Will, Jeff Barry and Ellie Greenwich.
- [26:54]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, I was. I was listening. I'm sure you've done that. Where you hear something. Who wrote this song? And whether it was Walking in the Rain by the Renettes and it's man and Wheel or Wild. I mean, what a song. I mean, still goosebumps to this day.
- [27:10]
Gene Simmons
It's like, you know, well, Barry Mann, I. I knew Barry from. From Electric Lady Forward, and Barry is. I mean, R B on Broadway.
- [27:23]
Paul Stanley
I didn't know that.
- [27:24]
Gene Simmons
Oh, yeah. So, yeah, those people, though, they wrote songs, man, because they understood the formula. I mean, you know, you've lost that love and feeling. That's Barry Mann and Cynthia.
- [27:40]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, yeah, there is that. There is that thing that oftentimes gets lost in translation with rock and roll. Because the radio playlists up through the early to mid-70s were very regional, so people who grew up in the Northeast got a very different musical education than people growing up.
- [27:54]
Gene Simmons
Yes.
- [27:54]
Paul Stanley
Where I Grew up in Chicago, and like, if you listen to Tommy James, you can really hear that doo wop influence, but then that kind of psychedelia. But it's very east coast. And like you said, the west coast, the Jefferson Airplane version, Buffalo Springfield. It's a very different kind of psychedelia.
- [28:10]
Gene Simmons
Yes.
- [28:11]
Paul Stanley
Less influenced by doo wop and more influenced by, guess, I don't know, people smoking weed or something. I don't know. Yeah, very different.
- [28:17]
Gene Simmons
More based, I think probably on acoustic. On the folk.
- [28:21]
Paul Stanley
Yeah, exactly. More folk.
- [28:22]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very much so. That different areas had. You know, the.
- [28:32]
Paul Stanley
You know, it just occur. Occurred to me because harmonies are kind of a hidden thing in your music. I'm not saying it's hidden, but I'm saying is there's a very unique KISS vocal harmony style. Was there somebody you guys patterned yourselves after?
- [28:46]
Gene Simmons
I've always loved harmonies, and one of the great things in my family was when I was growing up, all four of us, my parents, my sister and I all had really good voices and we would sing.
- [28:59]
Paul Stanley
Oh, so you just grew up with that?
- [29:00]
Gene Simmons
Just singing innately in four part. We. We sang in great harmony. So that was always, always something special. There's. I mean, the birds, you know, their harmonies were fantastic, and it's unfair when.
- [29:18]
Paul Stanley
You hear those voices.
- [29:19]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. I mean, and I. Crosby, Jean Clark, Gene Clark. You know, there's an unsung hero.
- [29:24]
Paul Stanley
Oh, unbelievable. You know, one of my favorites all time.
- [29:27]
Gene Simmons
Me too.
- [29:27]
Paul Stanley
You know, did you ever listen to the stuff he did after he left the bridge? The early country?
- [29:32]
Gene Simmons
Some of it got a little, you know, A little. Little out there. A little out there.
- [29:37]
Paul Stanley
But, you know, but him with Dillard and Clark, and there's some interesting stuff.
- [29:41]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:43]
Paul Stanley
So, because your. Your history in music is so oft explored, I just want to kind of tangentially touch on it because there's almost no way to express it, but I thought it would be interesting to kind of do it this way. So if we break your life into these. These four eras that I've somehow made up my own version, that you have four errors of music, I thought, okay. With the original band. Take me. Take me to the moment in your life when you're standing on stage somewhere and you think, like, wow, this is really going to work. Is there, like a specific show or specific.
- [30:16]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, I think. I think it was Dayton, Ohio.
- [30:20]
Paul Stanley
I love it.
- [30:21]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. And we were. We were playing.
- [30:27]
Paul Stanley
We.
- [30:27]
Gene Simmons
We could do 14 shows in a row, whatever. We.
- [30:30]
Paul Stanley
Were you on one of these package tours where it's like you and Rush and, you know, was one of those.
- [30:35]
Gene Simmons
Rush did their first tour opening for us, everybody. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were.
- [30:40]
Paul Stanley
But I'm saying, yeah, those were the times where there was always these shifting bills.
- [30:43]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, but we were. I would always say to our road manager, before the show, when we were getting ready, how are we doing? And what that meant was our ticket sales, empty seats. And I remember, how we doing? Sold out. Oh, cool. And then next night, how are we doing? Sold out. And it's like. And then I'm going, do I sense a pattern here?
- [31:10]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [31:11]
Gene Simmons
And I remember going. Before we went on, I was all made up and ready, and we had a curtain like a kabuki. And I went out and looked down. I was like, oh, my God, this place is packed. And that's when I thought, wow, this is happening. I always thought of it analogous to your. You're on the roller coaster and you're being pulled up and, you know, sooner or later, suddenly, you know, you better hold on, because this is going to get pretty tricky.
- [31:51]
Paul Stanley
My sense of it at the time, and I was young, was you were as hot a band in that period as any band has ever been in the history of rock and roll. Was that how you felt or saw it?
- [32:03]
Gene Simmons
You're in this, you know, you're in the eye of the hurricane.
- [32:07]
Paul Stanley
But that was a pretty fierce hurricane.
- [32:11]
Gene Simmons
I was certainly aware, I think more so that we were on a crusade. We were taking no prisoners and we were just going. We were going to conquer the world. And that's really more that than. Than the impact we were having by destroyer. Yeah. Then. Then I was aware that this is out of control. This is massive. But before that, I. I was more committed to.
- [32:46]
Paul Stanley
I see.
- [32:47]
Gene Simmons
To the. The outcome that we wanted.
- [32:52]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. Was it as simple as we want to be the biggest band in the world? Was that something you would say, or. I know it sounds silly to say it, but I used to tell my band we're going to be the biggest band in the world because I needed to believe in something.
- [33:07]
Gene Simmons
I think we did the same. I think that's probably a cliche, but I think that it's something that you aspire to. If it's up here and you reach here, that's okay, but you have to aim for there.
- [33:26]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [33:27]
Gene Simmons
So, yeah, I remember when we first got together with Bill o' Coin, our manager, who became our manager, and he had. Didn't have a pot to piss in and never managed a band, but it was meant to be. And he said, if you don't want to be the biggest band in the world, I don't want to manage you. And it was like, that's our man, you know, there's the guy. That's the guy, you know? And yeah, I think naivete is a good thing if it's coupled with determination. If you just think you can will something to happen or imagine it. If you have a objective and if you want to get to that end of the field, you don't see the obstacles. Yeah, you just keep looking there.
- [34:23]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. I feel like if you knew how hard it was, it would mess you up. You almost have to believe it somehow. It's like a magical spell or something that happens. Totally.
- [34:31]
Gene Simmons
I, I, I often thought, you know, if I knew how long it was going to take me to feel I was a good guitar player, I never would have picked up the guitar.
- [34:42]
Paul Stanley
So there's these kind of, I don't know. Funny, it's not the right word. There was these interesting moments because like I said in my impression, and I was least there and I was watching, my impression was this, this band is as hot as the Beatles were. You would hear about the Beatles in the 70s, but you guys were like the living embodiment of what that Beatlemania felt like. At least that's what it felt like where I was growing up. But then you have these weird cultural moments of like KISS meets the Phantom. And I oftentimes think of the. You guys on Was it the, Was it Tom Snyder? Where, where Ace was. Ace just goes off.
- [35:19]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [35:20]
Paul Stanley
And you could almost, I'm, maybe I'm projecting, but I just see you guys, faces like, oh my God, what's happening?
- [35:26]
Gene Simmons
It's somewhere between panic and anger. And anger, I would say.
- [35:31]
Paul Stanley
More anger.
- [35:32]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [35:37]
Paul Stanley
Yes.
- [35:37]
Gene Simmons
We reached a point where in Australia, when we went there in 1980, it was pegged as Casteria.
- [35:45]
Paul Stanley
Well, that was Shandy was a huge hit.
- [35:47]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [35:47]
Paul Stanley
And you know, you guys played like crazy crowds.
- [35:50]
Gene Simmons
Crazy crowds. Then we were locked in the hotel and we would have these wild parties every night where the promoter would invite every female celebrity, actress, newscaster, and leave your boyfriend's home. So, yeah, we, we lived that where you, we had the whole floor of a hotel. And then you can only get out of the hotel if you lay on the bottom of a truck. And we did the same thing in Japan when we broke the Beatles record for, for concerts at Budokan. So, yeah, we, we, we were aware. But I was never delusional in the sense of comparing us to the Beatles let other people do that. It's an insane comparison.
- [36:42]
Paul Stanley
I just mean it because in terms.
- [36:44]
Gene Simmons
Of the adulation and that fan ferocity. Sure, yeah. Certainly existed. And, and from time to time, bands have that.
- [36:58]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. I just made it through the prism of very few bands cross into the culture where it becomes a cultural phenomenon, not just a musical phenomenon.
- [37:07]
Gene Simmons
Well, that's. I. I say, you know, bands make music phenomenons impact society.
- [37:14]
Paul Stanley
Right.
- [37:14]
Gene Simmons
And it's. It's kind of that simple.
- [37:17]
Paul Stanley
So skipping to the. To the next era, we'll call it the makeup off era. What was the. What was the internal logic like? We've taken this as far as it can go. Or what was the internal thinking?
- [37:29]
Gene Simmons
Survival. We reached a point where I felt that people were listening with their eyes and.
- [37:43]
Paul Stanley
Sorry, I got to stop you, because this blows my mind. Okay. So I. I went to one of these AI chatgpt, GROK type of things, and I said, list for me the top ten American rock bands of all time. And you guys weren't in the top 10. And every. @ some point, they were listing the records, and you guys have sold over 100 million records, so you weren't in the top 10. And I wrote to the chat GPT thing. Why isn't kiss in the top 10? And chatgpt or whatever was. Apologized to me and said, well, they're oftentimes discounted for their theatricality. And I said, what difference does that make exactly when I'm asking a business question? And Chat GPT again apologized and then slotted you guys in where you belonged to.
- [38:40]
Gene Simmons
Thank you.
- [38:41]
Paul Stanley
But it was such a weird. I mean, we're talking about, like, just the fact that a machine learning AI system would discount your accomplishment is so. That's like. That's such a weird thing.
- [38:51]
Gene Simmons
Well, somebody had to feed that into the.
- [38:53]
Paul Stanley
That's what I. That's what I'm trying to say is.
- [38:55]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. To discount music because of theatricality. Look, when I would jump up in the air or slide across the stage, that's considered some sort of, like, kitschy showmanship, you know, that, that's, that's not credible. But there are other people who do it who are great, you know?
- [39:22]
Paul Stanley
Well, you know. You know, they'll use a stick on one person and then the next person. Somehow that's a. An attribute.
- [39:29]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. So where were we?
- [39:33]
Paul Stanley
Sorry.
- [39:34]
Gene Simmons
No, that's. Oh, we were talking about survival.
- [39:36]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [39:37]
Gene Simmons
So people were listening with their eyes and didn't like what they were seeing. So even though Creatures is a great album, as far as I'M concerned. And even on that album, I had said to Gene, we should take off the makeup. And we didn't. And the album did not do well. And then we did take it off. And understandably, it was much more difficult for him to take off the makeup. And we did it for Lick It Up.
- [40:08]
Paul Stanley
Why was it more difficult for him?
- [40:10]
Gene Simmons
Because his face and that Persona really is the visual face of the band.
- [40:20]
Paul Stanley
I see.
- [40:22]
Gene Simmons
There's just no denying that.
- [40:24]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. Like if. If. If the Stones is the lips and the tongue.
- [40:28]
Gene Simmons
You know, jeans, that.
- [40:30]
Paul Stanley
Jeans, makeup in the tongue.
- [40:31]
Gene Simmons
Hair.
- [40:31]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [40:31]
Gene Simmons
Come on. You know, when I saw it, I went, wow. Okay, I. I can't top that. So you were there. Yeah. So it was. It was much tougher for him because what I've always done has been basically me, you know, me as a performer.
- [40:52]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. So did you guys unmask on mtv? Wasn't the thing.
- [40:56]
Gene Simmons
Yes.
- [40:56]
Paul Stanley
I was watching live, so I remember that much.
- [40:59]
Gene Simmons
Which is peculiar in itself because there were two guys who had not been in the band all the time. Right. You know, so, you know, to have the guitar player who would. Played on one album.
- [41:17]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [41:17]
Gene Simmons
Suddenly taking off his make makeup. But, yeah, so we took off the makeup and lo and behold, the Lick it up album did that was huge. Yeah.
- [41:30]
Paul Stanley
And the songs have really aged well, I think too.
- [41:33]
Gene Simmons
So good songs.
- [41:34]
Paul Stanley
Those are Heavens on Fire. Lick It Up. Right.
- [41:37]
Gene Simmons
Heaven's on Fire is on Animal Eyes on the next.
- [41:40]
Paul Stanley
That period, I think more fondly remembered than I would have imagined at the time.
- [41:45]
Gene Simmons
Interestingly, there are people who were introduced to the band through those albums.
- [41:50]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [41:51]
Gene Simmons
And. And hey, Max Martin grew up on those albums.
- [41:55]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [41:55]
Gene Simmons
You know.
- [41:56]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. It was. It was. I think for OG Fans, it was. It was a tough time. And because you guys were sort of generally lumped in with the hair metal scene. And as you know, the grunge thing was very much a reaction against hair metal. The ballads being the number one offender.
- [42:11]
Gene Simmons
Well, everybody had to have a power. It's a ballad, but it's a power ballad.
- [42:16]
Paul Stanley
But I think about 800 of those. MTV basically launched the Gruns revolution. It was a revenge play because we were just like, we can't handle any more power.
- [42:24]
Gene Simmons
The pendulum swung.
- [42:25]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [42:26]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. Look, we had our moments, I guess.
- [42:31]
Paul Stanley
Sorry to interrupt. I think, because I don't want to skip past that period because I think it's a really strong musical period. Something about taking off the makeup. It's something about the band being reinvigorated with the public.
- [42:42]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [42:43]
Paul Stanley
A lot of great Music came out of that period.
- [42:45]
Gene Simmons
We certainly weren't leading the parade. But. We were.
- [42:49]
Paul Stanley
But can I. Can I make a musical point to you?
- [42:51]
Gene Simmons
Sure.
- [42:53]
Paul Stanley
I. My memory of it at the time was you guys were getting in behind the shifting trend. But when I actually went back and listened to the music in the last five years, because I did this thing where I went through and listened to your whole catalog in a row, I do these weird things where I just want to listen to everything in a row because I end up changing my perceptions about things. Because sometimes your perception of the time is actually inaccurate, which is weird because you were there. And what I realized was you guys had a lot more to do with. More people in the hair metal scene were ripping you off than I thought at the time. So I didn't. Even though at the time my perception was you were following, I actually think you had a lot more to do with it.
- [43:29]
Gene Simmons
Well, yeah, certainly a lot of those bands had listened to us.
- [43:33]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. So I'm saying is there's more Kiss in those bands than I would have thought at the time, because I think I got caught up like everybody else, whatever was the new thing.
- [43:40]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. I mean, the clothes got ridiculous. You know, we. We looked like we got dressed in the dark in a. In a costume store. You know. What do you think? My feather earrings. Oh, good. Goes with your eye makeup, you know. But, yeah, it was a way for us to continue. And in. In a way, I wanted the band to continue. I wasn't ready. Nobody can tell me when this band is over.
- [44:07]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [44:08]
Gene Simmons
And, you know, I. I did do interviews with journalists towards the end of the makeup period where they could be. So they could be such vitriol. You know, somebody has. Has joy in. In making you squirrel.
- [44:25]
Paul Stanley
What was the. What was the. What was the source of the vitriol?
- [44:30]
Gene Simmons
Probably angered how long we had succeeded. So finally, the Death Knell. So how does it feel to be on the Titanic?
- [44:39]
Paul Stanley
Was.
- [44:40]
Gene Simmons
Was like a.
- [44:41]
Paul Stanley
Well, you got the last laugh on that one.
- [44:43]
Gene Simmons
I was kind of like, how can I'm a human being? How. How could you say that? And all I could think was, nobody's going to tell me when this ends. And watch this.
- [44:55]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [44:56]
Gene Simmons
And you have to have a reason to continue. And mine was that nobody gets to tell me when it's over.
- [45:06]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. I think it's really interesting because, again, I didn't love that period at the time, and I like it a lot more now. And what I'm impressed by. Because I've been around long enough to know that this isn't a simple thing to accomplish, and you could argue I have an accomplishment is to find a whole new vein of music in an adjacent but different style that does match with the zeitgeist of the times. It really speaks to your musical ability and your songwriting ability because in many ways, you'd stripped off all the accoutrement that you were accused of using.
- [45:38]
Gene Simmons
Yeah, there were certainly some missteps that I listen to now and go, gee, all I can say is that we committed ourselves 100% to everything we did and believed that we were doing the best we could when we did things. And some, some of it is, is pretty awful.
- [46:02]
Paul Stanley
I won't ask. Just. I don't want to talk much about your, your, your musical partner because, you know, he says enough on his own. But when he started getting other things, you know, like, I call it like Gene with the ponytail in the movies. Gene, how'd you, how would you feel about that? Did you see him as being like, remember when Keith Richards was very critical of Mick Jagger? Like, hey, you're in the Rolling Stones. Like, what the hell are you doing? Did you have a similar reaction?
- [46:32]
Gene Simmons
Very much. I felt betrayed. No secret. I felt that he was leaving me to do the heavy work, but continually continued to get paid. So, you know, trying to have the best of both worlds, go off and do your own thing and have the success at any level that there was success, and the monetary compensation, which I'm not sharing in, but you're abandoning ship and you're still my partner.
- [47:17]
Paul Stanley
I see.
- [47:19]
Gene Simmons
So, yeah, no, I felt very resentful and hurt. You know, I didn't, I wouldn't at that time have said I was hurt. I would say I was angry, but I was hurt. You know, Jean's my, my brother. He's been with me since I was 17. So that, that was really, that was, that was difficult. Really difficult.
- [47:47]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [47:47]
Gene Simmons
But again, it was, well, screw it. I'm not going to let this band fall apart.
- [47:53]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [47:53]
Gene Simmons
You know, if it's, if, if, if it's my band in that sense, then so be it. You know, if I got to be in the middle in a video, then let's do that. But, yeah, I, I, I felt that he was selling the band short. The quality of the writing was not good. Yeah, I, I thought he was, he wasn't playing fair.
- [48:18]
Paul Stanley
I like that. This is an oversimplification, but that's the world we live in. In my mind, there's that moment when you take off the makeup for the last time. And I know it. I, like. Recently, you did a commercial and you were in the makeup, so I'm being somewhat dramatic. But there's that moment you play the last show in the makeup. That era is over. I guess I'm asking a bit of an existential question, like, how do you view the character that you played? I'm not saying something as simple as, is it you? Because obviously it's an extension of you. You wouldn't have played it so well for so long. But do you see that character with affection? Do you see it with detached? I'm just curious. It's like it's. Here's maybe best way to say it. In later years, Charlie Chaplin spoke very fondly of the Tramp character. He'd done other things, and he'd been successful in doing other things, but he came to almost speak about the Tramp character as if it was its own entity.
- [49:19]
Gene Simmons
Totally, totally. I get that. And the starchild grew with me. The star child, you know, on that last night of Madison Square Garden was not the one who started at Madison Square Garden or in the clubs that we played in. He became who he was as I became who I was. I mean, there's. There's a parallel path. Yeah. But, yeah, I. I can separate the two. That. He's very much me, but he's a separate entity. And it shows in. When people would come to the show over the years, they said I was different as I progressed or went down this road off stage. I went down another road on stage.
- [50:22]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. Do you have any musical ambitions left?
- [50:27]
Gene Simmons
Oh.
- [50:33]
Paul Stanley
Past being custodian of this incredible thing that you two have built?
- [50:38]
Gene Simmons
I love Soul Station. I love those people. Somehow we all came together and. And it's just a blessing. I have incredible reverence for Philly soul and for Motown. I grew up with that as much as I grew up with, you know, Led Zeppelin or anything like that. So I love doing that and want to continue doing that. I have no, you know, I have no fantasies that anything I ever do is going to come close to what I did or have done. But that's what life is about, is that sometimes we have to leave things behind and go forward.
- [51:33]
Paul Stanley
Would there be. This might be my own version of it, but is there a desire to make a more personal music? Does that translate the way I'm asking it? Because your life for 50 years was defined by satisfying the public at such a high level. And it does have a cost. And I'm not saying it's compromised in the way people would associate. Compromise but you have to take into some sort of consideration there's an audience, and are they going to listen? Are they going to like it? Is there a. Like, you know, I'm not saying bossa nova or something, but is there something like a music that you would long to make that really is just for you?
- [52:10]
Gene Simmons
Well, I mean, that's why I started doing Soul Station was because I.
- [52:15]
Paul Stanley
What was this? There's the first song in that record. I Can't.
- [52:18]
Gene Simmons
Is first on that is.
- [52:20]
Paul Stanley
Oh, I love.
- [52:21]
Gene Simmons
Could it be I'm Falling in Love.
- [52:23]
Paul Stanley
Okay.
- [52:23]
Gene Simmons
Spinners.
- [52:24]
Paul Stanley
But there's a. There's a song that you wrote.
- [52:25]
Gene Simmons
Oh, the next one. I, O. I. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I. I arranged.
- [52:30]
Paul Stanley
That's a cool tune.
- [52:31]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. I arranged the horns and the strings.
- [52:33]
Paul Stanley
That's got to be fun.
- [52:34]
Gene Simmons
Oh, it's f. It's fantastic. You know, it's. So. That's something I wanted to do and will continue doing. Could I put a band together and strap on a guitar and do that? Yeah. All bets are off. You know, I.
- [52:53]
Paul Stanley
You have to almost detox from all that. I had adrenaline.
- [52:57]
Gene Simmons
I had to. Honestly, I. I put the guitar away for a long time. I needed to. I needed. I. I just needed to. To take a deep breath and. And distance myself a little.
- [53:16]
Paul Stanley
The one thing I think people don't understand is when you're up in front of a lot of people, that's a lot of energy passing through your being.
- [53:24]
Gene Simmons
Yeah.
- [53:26]
Paul Stanley
And you've played for about just as many people as anybody's ever played for in the history of the planet.
- [53:31]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. You play in front of 180,000 people.
- [53:35]
Paul Stanley
It does something, doesn't it?
- [53:36]
Gene Simmons
I mean, you just feel. You feel this like a locomotive or a tornado. The force from the audience is.
- [53:49]
Paul Stanley
It's indescribable. Right.
- [53:50]
Gene Simmons
It really is. And, well, you don't see it, but you feel this incredible amount of energy that's just.
- [54:01]
Paul Stanley
People will say to me, what's it like playing in front of 80,000 people? It's like ride a tidal wave. I don't know. It's amazing.
- [54:08]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. It's nothing you can describe. And any way that you described it would never do it justice.
- [54:15]
Paul Stanley
Yeah. The words don't. I saw a quote attributed to you, but I have a feeling it's not true. So you tell me if it's accurate. But it was something along the lines of, all I ever wanted to be was a star. Is that something I saw somewhere where it said it was. Came out of your mouth and I saw another thing that said. You never said that. Oh, it's almost like a. Like. Like a line played against Sam, like something you never said, but it. Yeah, it goes with the character.
- [54:38]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. I may have said, you know, just like, play it again. Sam is kind of like a distorted version of what was actually said. All I ever wanted to be. No, it's. It's so.
- [54:52]
Paul Stanley
It sounds. It sounds a bit Bette Davis. Does it?
- [54:55]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. And it's so mundane and. And small.
- [54:59]
Paul Stanley
That's why. That's how I had a feeling. He didn't say it, but I wanted to ask because it seemed to make this point that I was after. But I'll go to a different way. When did you first become conscious of the concept of celebrity or fame? Or was it Beatles or. You know, was like the first time you saw it, okay, there's a star in the heaven, and it looks like that.
- [55:26]
Gene Simmons
I think the way I could relate to it best was probably an Elvis or something like that, where there's a commotion and girls are swooning and there's chaos. To see him doing those. Those steps he did on stage. So I think Elvis might be the.
- [55:51]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [55:52]
Gene Simmons
The first.
- [55:52]
Paul Stanley
What. What year would that have been for you?
- [55:55]
Gene Simmons
It had to be probably 57 or so.
- [56:00]
Paul Stanley
You would have been pretty young.
- [56:01]
Gene Simmons
Oh, yeah. I. I loved rock and roll from the time I was a little kid from. From Elvis to Eddie Cochran to Lee Andrews in the Hearts to Dion and the Belmonts to Vito and the elegance to the Impalas. You know, it. It. It's always been.
- [56:20]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [56:21]
Gene Simmons
You know, it's always been my salvation. My. My. My oxygen.
- [56:28]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [56:28]
Gene Simmons
It always gave me comfort, you know, Torrendot, listening to Nessun. Dharma, listening to, you know, listening to music. That just fills you up.
- [56:41]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [56:45]
Gene Simmons
It inflated me.
- [56:47]
Paul Stanley
So I guess the last point I'm after is if you could go back in a time machine, would that little kid believe that you became that? It's a strange point to make, but you're in the rare position of you did it.
- [57:05]
Gene Simmons
Yes, he could, but he would have no idea of the complexity or.
- [57:12]
Paul Stanley
Or the.
- [57:13]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. Of what it means and what went into it. Me back then could look and go, wow, you really became a star. Or you became, you know, whatever you are, but all the nuance of it that makes it what it is would. Would be lost. Just like trying to tell somebody what it feels like when you feel that energy.
- [57:38]
Paul Stanley
Yeah.
- [57:39]
Gene Simmons
There are certain things in life that someone will never experience and can't really comprehend.
- [57:46]
Paul Stanley
So. Simple question 101. Would you do it all over again?
- [57:49]
Gene Simmons
In a heartbeat. I've beaten my body up something, you know.
- [57:56]
Paul Stanley
You had hip. Hip replacements?
- [57:58]
Gene Simmons
Yeah. Rotator. Both my rotator cuffs.
- [58:01]
Paul Stanley
Goodness.
- [58:01]
Gene Simmons
Had to be repaired. I popped my bicep tendon. I've had both my knees scoped. I had a hip replacement. I'm sure I'll need another on the other side. Yeah. You know, everything comes with a price. Is it worth the price? Hell, yeah.
- [58:18]
Paul Stanley
Thank you.
- [58:19]
Gene Simmons
Thank you. This was great.
- [58:21]
Paul Stanley
Thank you. God bless you.