Richie Sambora | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode: Richie Sambora | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
Date: April 2, 2025
Host: Billy Corgan
Guest: Richie Sambora

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid conversation, Billy Corgan welcomes legendary guitarist, songwriter, and former Bon Jovi member Richie Sambora to discuss the highs and lows of a lifetime in music. The episode delves deeply into the realities of fame, the evolution of band dynamics, personal growth, grief, family, and the creative process—shedding light on both the myth and the truth of what it means to be a “magnificent other” in the music world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Early Years and First Encounters

• Formative Musical Influences: Richie shares stories of growing up near a swamp in New Jersey, cutting through to Penn Station, and seeing bands like Sabbath, Queen, Zeppelin, and Bowie:

  "My first concert was a Black Sabbath, man. You know, I saw everybody." (Richie, 02:16)

• Billy’s Early Memories: Billy recounts seeing Richie play with Bon Jovi opening for Scorpions at the Rosemont Horizon (Chicago, 1984):

  "The first time I saw you was... I was 17 years old. Pretty cool, right?" (Billy, 01:31)

Musicianship, Respect, and Reputation

• High Musical Standards: Both discuss the rigorous standards of live bands in the '70s and '80s, and the indie mindset about “playing too good.”
• Alternative Scene Respect: Billy tells Richie about his strong reputation among alternative musicians:

  "You have a very strong rep with alternative musicians. You're very respected with the alternative community." (Billy, 05:18)

The Bon Jovi Arc: From “Runaway” to Stadiums

• Breakthrough and Success Signs:

  "Our merchandizing started doing, like, three times... The merch don't lie, baby." (Richie, 06:19)

• MTV’s Impact and the “Bon Jovi Video”:

  "In the Pumpkins, we called it the Bon Jovi video... There we are, stretching before the gig." (Billy, 09:19)

The Realities and Pressures of Major Success

• Touring & Longevity: Both reminisce on brutal touring schedules and the athletic demands of nightly performances:

  "We did five shows a week and however they fit on a... routing level to save that kind of money." (Richie, 12:58)

• Vocal Health: Richie continues vocal training to preserve his voice and shares about meeting Andrea Bocelli:

  "He said, 'I'm a little nervous tonight... I got to hit nine high Cs in the second song.'" (Richie, 14:32)

Beyond the Myth: The True Band Experience

• Documentary & Narrative: Richie clarifies his feelings about recent Bon Jovi documentaries, emphasizing his real journey versus media narratives:

  "I've been out of the band for...seemed like a lifetime at that point... and the questions that were coming at me were unintelligent and did not demand any depth of answer." (Richie, 20:08)

• What the Fans Gave Back:

  "Gratitude beyond whatever I had to deal with... what I received was way beyond the love and the one." (Richie, 23:11)

Family, Fatherhood, and Personal Struggles

• Fatherhood and Parenting: Richie discusses raising his daughter through divorce, focusing on fostering self-reliance and emotional intelligence:

  "I pride myself on being a very good dad... Because she was keeping up with some very smart people, obviously." (Richie, 25:05)

• Teaching Through Experience:

  "Because of all the time I spent on the road... I was essentially teaching her self-parent as much as possible." (Richie, 27:02)

Coping with Grief and Life’s Turning Points

• Loss and Delayed Grief: Richie and Billy bond over experiencing delayed grief after losing their parents:

  "Sometimes you'll wake up and everything's going great, and then you'll have a thought and then boom. And puddles." (Richie, 42:42)

• Leaving Bon Jovi — The Real Reasons:

  "The turning point was obviously my daughter... Daughter looks at you and goes, daddy, I need you. And I go, you know what? I need you too." (Richie, 60:12)

Musicianship, Creativity, and Legacy

• Bon Jovi's Magic Ingredient: Billy describes Richie as the "magic" in Bon Jovi’s music and points to his unique synthesis of blues, pop, and other influences:

  "The magic is Richie in the mix." (Billy, 50:41)

• Expanding Artistic Boundaries: Both discuss the freedom and necessity of exploring new genres and influences throughout their careers:

  "We have covered so many genres and covered them well... that's what I loved about your records." (Richie, 50:56)

Wisdom, Gratitude, and the Artist’s Path

• Sincerity and Lasting Drive: Richie reflects on being a sincere, hardworking musician, motivated by real passion:

  "I'm a sincere musician and sincere artist, and I will try my hardest till I'm dead. That's it. But it's really sincere." (Richie, 54:32)

• Aging, Contentment, and New Love: Discusses falling in love again later in life, finding renewed joy and wisdom.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Artistic Reputation:

  "They identify that you in that is something that they get it. I think it's cool, right?" (Billy, 05:26)

• On Life’s Cycles in Music:

  "As far as business goes... I saved my money... I don't have to do it for money. That was the main thing. Where did I start? Why did I get into this in the first place? Joy." (Richie, 30:48)

• On Stage Versus Real Life:

  "You're playing 80,000 people in Russia... There's an adrenaline. But at some point, you're going to be alone on a Sunday... You gotta find something to hold on to." (Billy, 28:31)

• On Coping with Success and Aging:

  "To fall in love at 63 with the wisdom... It invigorates you very much. It's a different way to fall in love." (Richie, 63:15)

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Notable Stories and Fun Anecdotes

• Meeting Heroes: Richie still “geeks out” meeting people like Jimmy Page, Paul McCartney, and Bob Dylan:

  "Anytime I'm with Jimmy Page, I geek out. Anytime I'm with Paul McCartney. I geek out." (Richie, 33:56)

• Insider Pumpkins Joke:

  "In the Pumpkins, we called it the Bon Jovi video." (Billy, 09:19)

• Masked Singer and New Ventures: Richie's amusing experience on The Masked Singer UK and singing a Cher song:

  "I did a version of if I Could Turn Back Time." (Richie, 65:42)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Billy’s First Bon Jovi Concert Experience: 01:16 – 02:16
• Discussion of Alternative Respect & Musicianship: 05:11 – 05:56
• Breaking Through with Slippery When Wet & MTV: 06:19 – 09:30
• On Touring Demands & Vocal Health: 12:58 – 15:28
• Band Narrative vs. Personal Story (on the documentary): 17:25 – 20:54
• Grief and Family, Impact on Career Choices: 42:24 – 48:02
• Musicianship and Bon Jovi’s "Magic": 50:41 – 51:16
• Leaving the Band for Family: 60:12 – 61:31

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Richie Sambora's story is one of gratitude, resilience, and musical sincerity—a life shaped by talent, family, personal hardship, and deep love for the art form.
• At its heart, the episode is a meditation on what remains after the lights go down: authenticity, connection, and the belief in “future days.”
• As Richie puts it, “People experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands core changes, man.” (Richie, 00:00 & 58:47)

This episode is rich with wisdom, humility, and humor—essential listening for anyone fascinated by the real stories behind legendary bands and the people who make them great.

Transcript

[Richie Sambora]

People experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands core changes, man.

[Billy]

And you know the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing too good is a bad thing.

[Richie Sambora]

Too good is a bad thing.

[Billy]

Sounds like one of your songs. The Samboras.

[Richie Sambora]

The Sambor. They are the best. So we would be. We would be pretty good together, I think.

[Billy]

I think your flamenco playing would be better than mine. But I could fake it. A lot of A minor.

[Richie Sambora]

We're talking songwriting school. All right.

[Billy]

For folks, let's jump in here. Young William Patrick Corgan stays out all night at the. Then the. What was it called back then? Rosemont Horizon.

[Richie Sambora]

Right by.

[Billy]

Right by O' Hare in Chicago. 1984, I think was the year.

[Richie Sambora]

Because I wouldn't it.

[Billy]

We'll get there. Yes. Notorious. One of the best, right?

[Richie Sambora]

Chicago every time.

[Billy]

So stay out all night. And I get my scorpions tickets. I'm 14th row. But I make sure I see the opening band because they have hit on Chicago radio called Runaway. And there you are. So that's the first time I saw you was. I was 17 years old. Pretty cool, right?

[Richie Sambora]

We were junk. That's amazing. We were junkyard dogs, man. I think, you know, we were young and they gave us 45 minutes to play. So it's like. Yeah, head down. Yeah. And all you got.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

No. No breathing necessary in the whole thing.

[Billy]

It's like.

[Richie Sambora]

It's like. Yeah, 45 minutes plus. Oh, she's a little run away to the Scorpions crowd. Oh, we got a lot of. You know. I mean, she had to wear a baddie.

[Billy]

The Scorpions. Crowded.

[Richie Sambora]

Like this is so fun because it would be like nickels and quarters coming up.

[Billy]

Is it because they had a. More of a hard rock crowd at

[Richie Sambora]

that time, you think?

[Billy]

I'm asking you. I mean, I was in the crowd. I wasn't throwing anything.

[Richie Sambora]

Hey, listen, man. You know, I'm. I was 15 years old, white kid from the swamp. My first concert was a Black Sabbath man. You know, I saw everybody.

[Billy]

What year did you see Sabbath?

[Richie Sambora]

75.

[Billy]

So that was Sabbath. Bloody Sabbath.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

Great period Sabbath.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. But I liked him from day one, you know. I was a huge fan from day one. I still am.

[Billy]

Were og,

[Richie Sambora]

But I was. You know what? I was lucky enough to have this train. I lived literally on a dead end street next to a swamp. But I used to cut through the swamp and I could get to the train tunnel in about minute and a half.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

It dropped me off in Penn Station. Underneath the garden oh, I saw everyone there was to ever see and, you

[Billy]

know, comes to mind because I love this period of music.

[Richie Sambora]

Queen, Led Zeppelin, Eldon John, Paul McCartney, Wings, Deep Purple.

[Billy]

So you had a very.

[Richie Sambora]

David Bowie.

[Billy]

So you had a very high standard of music.

[Richie Sambora]

Rod Stewart.

[Billy]

Does it make sense what I'm saying? It's like as a musician, you go, if I'm going to do this, I got to be up in here. Because not everybody has a high standard. I come from the indie world and, you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing too good is a bad thing.

[Richie Sambora]

Too Good is a bad thing.

[Billy]

Sounds like one of your songs.

[Richie Sambora]

No, it was a different type.

[Billy]

It's a hit. It's a hit. It's a hit, ladies and gentlemen. So there I am. And, you know.

[Richie Sambora]

How old were you?

[Billy]

17. 17.

[Richie Sambora]

17. Oh, you're done. Old enough.

[Billy]

I was playing guitar already and you guys were good band, you know, But, I mean, there were a lot of good bands back then. Yeah. You almost kind of couldn't be a touring band at that point and not be pretty solid. Everybody could play back then.

[Richie Sambora]

Everybody was pretty damn good.

[Billy]

Did you have a sense at that early date that you guys were on this kind of jet stream? Because, you know, it was absolutely. You felt it.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, without doubt.

[Billy]

Tell me, tell me, because I always love this because you and I understand something that very few people understand. There's that feeling where you're like, wow, this is gonna work big time. Right. You feel it in your bones and you see it.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

And here it materializes. Right. Okay, so what were the things as material obvious?

[Richie Sambora]

You know, I really enjoyed it. You know why? Because before that I worked like. Like crazy.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And I enjoyed it. I love it. I still do. You know, I. I was in. I was in the studio for the last five days, like 10, 12 hours a day. I love it.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Completely.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Always did. Well, you're so. It kind of made sense to me.

[Billy]

Let me tell you something because. Because you may not know this, or maybe you do. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians?

[Richie Sambora]

My who?

[Billy]

Your reputation. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians? You have a very strong rep with alternative musicians.

[Richie Sambora]

I do.

[Billy]

You're very respected with the alternative community.

[Richie Sambora]

That's fantastic.

[Billy]

Because they see you as a musician's musician.

[Richie Sambora]

Thank you.

[Billy]

You see what I'm saying?

[Richie Sambora]

Thank you.

[Billy]

For a lot of the rock guys, the alternative community kind of go, eh, too obvious, too lame, too cheesy. They want it too bad. You Have a different rep in my world.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, that's beautiful, because I did not know that.

[Billy]

Thank you for following me. Are you kidding? I didn't know you got a real rep. Because people understand where you're coming from. Like, you'll hear people like Bon Jovi, but Richie, they don't mean John. They're saying, you know, the music, that's not for them.

[Richie Sambora]

Right.

[Billy]

But they identify that you in that is something that they get it. I think it's cool, right?

[Richie Sambora]

I could sing.

[Billy]

So even me is my. In my.

[Richie Sambora]

That's so good of you.

[Billy]

Anytime.

[Richie Sambora]

No, I really appreciate that.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

And, you know, I mean, that's.

[Billy]

I do. So tell me, tell me, what were the things that you were seeing beyond the obvious that told you, like, wow, this is really gonna take off?

[Richie Sambora]

Well, our merchant started. Our merchant dizing. Started doing, like, three times.

[Billy]

The merch don't lie, right?

[Richie Sambora]

Don't lie, baby.

[Billy]

You know, the merch tells the tale.

[Richie Sambora]

Hey, it's. It really. You know, besides that. I knew with Slippery was the first time that we were really a band. Really.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

I mean, we spent years on the road, obviously, and years together and took vacations together. We were idiots. And we didn't have. We still didn't have good songs because we didn't have an identity yet.

[Billy]

Okay?

[Richie Sambora]

So. And I did not have a contract. And I still don't. I never changed it. Probably one of the most interesting deals in the business. But I just went, look, man, we make this a band. Oh, I gotta, you know, move on. Because it's like.

[Billy]

Was it in the beginning, in your mind? Was it more of a construct or was it a band? Does it make sense?

[Richie Sambora]

It was a try, okay? I was in many bands. Record companies would come see, like, three bands in a week, and I'd be into three of them. You know,

[Billy]

just change your name.

[Richie Sambora]

I'd be like, no, I'll be playing CBs. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Billy]

I get it. Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Gilder. Sleeves off.

[Billy]

You know, Ross, he said he saw some flyer recently of your. Your was the Richie something band, you know, but it was maybe your birth name, your last original friends.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. Basically. That's what I'd call my bands.

[Billy]

But I mean, back when I got.

[Richie Sambora]

Then when I got there, I'd say, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Cuban Yacht Club. It's Richard CT Perry Dancers. Yes, I would change the name.

[Billy]

Okay, but don't jump. Ask my question. So what were the things that you were seeing? Because you have. You have a Front row seat. What are you seeing in the crowd? What are you seeing? Okay, you said the merch don't lie. But what else?

[Richie Sambora]

No, it just. It was mania. It got to a point where it was. And it was. You know, people would just realize. Then they got. Well, thank God they finally got a good song, for Christ's sake. You know what I mean? After all these years of, like, following.

[Billy]

What changed? Okay, so what changed in your mind that made suddenly you went from. We didn't have good songs till we had good songs.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, MTV had a lot to do with it, too. We cultivated MTV and certainly MTV's Darling.

[Billy]

Can I tell you. How are you. Can I tell you an inside pumpkins joke?

[Richie Sambora]

Good looking.

[Billy]

Can I tell you an inside pumpkins joke?

[Richie Sambora]

Sure.

[Billy]

You know, when you're making videos, right, and you've made many too many, you have the meeting and what kind of video do you want to make? And so if they don't have a big budget, invariably somebody wants to do the on the road video. You know, like, there you are backstage. Thank you. There you are backstage. There you on stage pointing.

[Richie Sambora]

How many times we done that? Okay.

[Billy]

In the pumpkins, we called it the Bon Jovi video.

[Richie Sambora]

There you go.

[Billy]

There we are, stretching before the gig.

[Richie Sambora]

But that was true, you know, but

[Billy]

that was an inside pumpkins joke. We call that.

[Richie Sambora]

I don't know what happened to us. We were actually playing in Chicago. We're doing two nights at Soldier Field.

[Billy]

Right, right.

[Richie Sambora]

And so me and Bob are friends. Right? So it. He. He's great.

[Billy]

Bob. Bob.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, Kid Rock.

[Billy]

Oh, okay. You say Bob, you know, the rest of us just.

[Richie Sambora]

I knew him as well.

[Billy]

Kid Rock.

[Richie Sambora]

I just happen to know him, you know, not that that's like no big deal or anything. So anyway, I go, I think we do two nights. If you open up, man, you know, and it'll be good money for an hour. Yeah, you'll be happy.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

It souls. You feel. Yeah, we'll sell out. Two nights. Yeah, we did okay. And he was great. And he got. We gave him a bunch more gigs because of that. We do multiple nights.

[Billy]

Where are you trying to get at? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand.

[Richie Sambora]

I don't know. What was I trying to get?

[Billy]

You were bragging. I don't know. You were bragging. No, I'm trying.

[Richie Sambora]

No, I wasn't bragging. I was just.

[Billy]

I think what I was trying to get at was, how did you get from. You said we. We didn't have good songs then. We had good songs then. You said video. So I'm just trying to put those pieces together. Well,

[Richie Sambora]

I knew we had the best record that we definitely ever made as a band and the best sounding record with Bob Rock, who I still work with religiously and Bruce Fairburner unfortunately passed away. I said to myself, golly gee, I think we can make 2 million records out of this.

[Billy]

Right?

[Richie Sambora]

Worldwide. I'm talking. Right. You know, and we'll work our asses off because we did every bit of press back then. It wasn't obviously social media and stuff like that. It was more journalistic, newspapers, everything, whatever it took go and go on radio stations obviously.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Know, doing that was a big.

[Billy]

So the demand is there, the interest is there, but you guys are meeting the demand. And as you're feeling the demand coming, you're like, we better get even better songs.

[Richie Sambora]

Cuz it's no guy beyond our control and security levels. Different things like that. Like things you would never think of. You know what I mean?

[Billy]

People climbing through the sunlight, just like crazy stuff.

[Richie Sambora]

And you're just going about your daily job basically and doing. Yeah, we said yes a lot to mostly everything and everywhere. But we did that beforehand too. Which seeded the Garden for when we had a hit song. Sure was hit song in 24 countries.

[Billy]

So I had to look this up because I did not know as an institution the. The Bon Jovi Franchise has sold 130 million records. And to quote the lyric, you have seen a million faces in Iraq. I mean that's pretty amazing.

[Richie Sambora]

Thank you very much. It's more than that. But imagine the piracy. It was just insane.

[Billy]

Oh yeah. No one wants to hear us complain about the money we lost.

[Richie Sambora]

It's true.

[Billy]

Yeah. So.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

So that. What makes that number even more impressive is if you sold 130 million records that we know of.

[Richie Sambora]

I was 17 that year, so I was pretty big. That was. And we toured. You know what it's like when you take a day off and how much

[Billy]

money you guys back in the day you toured like oh yeah. Crazy people. What was the. What was a normal run for you guys when you were young? Like were you doing four in a row? But you're doing four in a row or you know. Cause like no, we did five shows

[Richie Sambora]

a week and however they fit on a. On a. Routing level to save that kind of money, you know, we're staying on.

[Billy]

You guys are. Those songs are high vocals. I mean it's.

[Richie Sambora]

It's, you know, so athletic event.

[Billy]

Yes, it truly is. Yes. So you, you. And we understand it's like, you know, you probably would have played seven days in a row if you could, right?

[Richie Sambora]

I mean, I could, yeah.

[Billy]

Well, I'm. Not that you don't sing, but as a lead singer of my band.

[Richie Sambora]

You know what? I. I take that back. Le man, because I've never done it for that long and been the lead singer, but I've obviously done my own tours for three, four months at a clip and, you know, play where I want to play kind of thing.

[Billy]

Yeah, yeah. No, I'd play seven days a week if I could. It's just.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, I know.

[Billy]

It's the vocal thing is.

[Richie Sambora]

It's the vocal. I. I never tried it, but I still take lessons.

[Billy]

Really?

[Richie Sambora]

Of course. Like, no, no. Yeah, all that. All that, yeah. Rigoletto Opera training. Yeah. Yeah. I went. I went to Andre Pacelli one day, actually. Denise, who served my assistant as a surprise, took me to see Andre. I love him, and he wanted to meet me. And I go back there, and it's just like, me and him. So as I walked in, he said, come here. And he's blind. He's taller than you. Huge and skinny. Not built like a normal oper.

[Billy]

Okay. Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And like, we know each other forever.

[Billy]

Oh, okay.

[Richie Sambora]

So he says, I'm a little nervous tonight. I'm a little nervous tonight.

[Billy]

Really?

[Richie Sambora]

I got to hit nine high Cs in the second song. It's. It's Arya, right? He says, I'll show you. Sits down at the piano and just goes, bang. Bangs them out, like, clear as a bell.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Richie Sambora]

No problem. And I'm looking at him, I'm going, well, number one, you're not gonna have a problem. Number two, how'd you do that?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Because he had volume control.

[Billy]

It's a different level of chop.

[Richie Sambora]

He goes, finish it. 30 years, you know?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Just to get. 20 years. Just to get opportunity.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

In that world, that's tough. Tough.

[Billy]

Yeah. I got trained by an opera singer once. That was interesting.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, you know what? What it did for me was. I don't know, it didn't increase too much, except my longevity.

[Billy]

Right. That's what I did learn from the opera teacher. I learned voice preservation, basically.

[Richie Sambora]

It's not going to the gym.

[Billy]

Yeah, yeah, it does. It does work. Okay. Bear with me here.

[Richie Sambora]

I am. Bear.

[Billy]

No, you're gonna have to bear with me now.

[Richie Sambora]

There's no bearing going on here. There's no bearing. Let's face it. Kim James Mason.

[Billy]

My. My, My. My goal, as I was telling you a little bit before we started rolling, is you Know, when I bring in somebody that I admire and respect, and you're certainly one of those people, but it. It's like there's 8,000 interviews with you telling variations of the same stories. And to me, what most journalists, if I'm a journalist at this point, miss, Is the real experience of being in a big band.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, yeah.

[Billy]

And more than you, they want to hear that. They want to hear the night that the groupie broken through the skylight, but they don't want to hear about the night you rode on a bus for 16 hours and were bored out of your mind. And.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, and who wants to hear that story? Actually, you know, I mean, entertainment.

[Billy]

No, but I'm saying should be based

[Richie Sambora]

entertainment, not what's behind it. Sure.

[Billy]

But we experience something different than what most people understand. Our experience is when you were on the road, like, we did tour, when we did one tour, 20 months, you know, I mean. And you guys know you did those tours, like, oh, six months, you know. You know, 52 countries. Hello. Right.

[Richie Sambora]

I'm still okay. Ladies and gentlemen. It's unbelievable.

[Billy]

No damage.

[Richie Sambora]

No damage whatsoever. Actually, I sing and play better than

[Billy]

I will say sitting looking at you. Look really good.

[Richie Sambora]

I love it. Look at me.

[Billy]

Handsome man. Handsome man. It's the genes. But. So, you know, we could sit here and tell. Or you could tell war stories. And I could say, you know, when Desmond Child. You know, to me, it's interesting and it's important, but at the same time, I'm more interested in your experience of being in the band.

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

And your navigation. Good for you. Okay, thank you. I'm trying to come at it from a musician's point of view, so bear with me here. So I'm interested because obviously there's a bit of controversy, as the English would say, with the documentary coming out. And I want to talk about it, but not probably how most people would want to talk about it, but I'm interested in your version of your story. And what I mean by that is like, is your story a rags to riches to heartbreak and redemption? Is it you had it all and walked away from it all? Is it local Polish kid makes good and you still Richie from the neighborhood? Are you the handsome gunslinger who marries a Hollywood star and has a beautiful kid? You know, I was.

[Richie Sambora]

All of that.

[Billy]

All of the above. I love it.

[Richie Sambora]

Duly noted.

[Billy]

But it's, you know, when I say it like that, it comes off like a Desmond Child song. You know what I mean? It's got a little bit of a ring to it, but I I don't.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, where did you think I get some of those lyrics from? Remember some of those stories from?

[Billy]

Very good. But my point of bringing this up this way because I feel like, first of all, you're. You're. You're a respected musician, but I think your real contribution musically is underappreciated. That's my perspective as a musician. To a musician. Thank you very much and good work on. Thank you. But it's. It's a genuine thing. You know, I'm not a compliment giver, so. But what I'm trying to get at is, you know, it's not like, what do you want to see on your tombstone that's a little grim? It's like, what do you want?

[Richie Sambora]

Broken, penniless?

[Billy]

But he had a great time.

[Richie Sambora]

I spent it all. No, I lived. That's what it means.

[Billy]

He lived.

[Richie Sambora]

It's just a metaphor.

[Billy]

I get it. He lived, obviously. Right. What I'm saying is, what's your version of that story? Because right now, you know, look, we've all been in big bands here, the two of us. You know what I mean? And sometimes the story of the band becomes our story, but it's not our story because, yeah, it gets a bit

[Richie Sambora]

boring and it's cliche and.

[Billy]

And you're not a cliche.

[Richie Sambora]

No.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

I would like. I said, look, I was out of the band at that point for 12 years. I was actually doing a songwriting clinic at, like, Abbey Road with these young songwriters and stuff like that. And they said, would you sit for a half hour?

[Billy]

Yeah, just a half an hour, I think.

[Richie Sambora]

I think an hour.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

I don't remember. And I said, oh, all right, you guys, get going on that. And walked into that little makeup, and I didn't even know what the premise of this thing was.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

I've been out of band for. Seemed like a lifetime at that point.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Most in the way.

[Billy]

That's a long time.

[Richie Sambora]

Thirteen years or something, you know, and so I was like, okay, so I was, you know, trying to be funny and. And the questions that were coming at me were unintelligent.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

And did not demand any depth of answer.

[Billy]

Sure. I'm like, I haven't seen the doc.

[Richie Sambora]

So I cut up and I. And I talked to the director who I really like, Deepak Chopra's grandson.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

And he's talented and hopefully spiritual. You know, I didn't know what you guys are looking for. What are you looking for?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And things like that.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And I get it.

[Billy]

Like, what's the point?

[Richie Sambora]

None of it. None of it really got in the documentary.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Right. But.

[Billy]

Well, you ain't the one.

[Richie Sambora]

Editing was six and a half hours. Okay, look, so it's the band's 40th anniversary. Right. We did some unbelievable things. Mention those. Mention those things. Show how. Like, you're asking me what that feeling was. Like.

[Billy]

That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm saying. What's your version of that feeling? Because that's what's interesting to me.

[Richie Sambora]

780. 780,000 happy, happy, happy people rocking for three hours.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, I'm taking them through great songs, great playing. They're coming back.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

It's an event.

[Billy]

Yeah. And.

[Richie Sambora]

And.

[Billy]

And, you know, the band had its up and the band had its down, and the band went back up. That's. That's pretty rare, as you know. Yeah, I remember. I don't remember what the year was, but somewhere in there, late 90s, 2000, people were basically thought you guys were done.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, yeah.

[Billy]

Like, you know, like, you be you. You become the oldies act thing.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, but that's just in this country.

[Billy]

No, I get that, but you know how America is. We don't think about other countries. You could be the biggest band in Greece and America wouldn't give two shits. All right, so you know what that feels like, because I know I'm still

[Richie Sambora]

on stadiums in 52 countries. Okay, so say tragedy strikes and 20 go down.

[Billy]

You're still good. Yeah, right.

[Richie Sambora]

Who does that? Yeah, that's where I was at.

[Billy]

Right. But, you know, being there. Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Was.

[Billy]

But, you know, this business of music runs basically out of this city, la. If they. If. But if they believe it, they believe. And if they don't believe, it don't matter that you sold out in Poughkeepsie. They don't give two shits.

[Richie Sambora]

They don't understand it.

[Billy]

That's what I'm saying. So what I'm trying to understand is in the meta narrative, which is a bit of a modern way of putting it, you know, what's your arc in this thing? Not even related to the Bon Jovi years. Like, what's your arc in this thing? Like, what's your version of your story?

[Richie Sambora]

It makes good, I understand. Oh, for sure.

[Billy]

Yeah. But you pick one. Just pick one.

[Richie Sambora]

Gratitude beyond whatever I had to deal with, what I received was way beyond the love and the one.

[Billy]

So your relationship with the fans and what the fans gave you is very high.

[Richie Sambora]

Very high.

[Billy]

Right, okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. And also, I started to, like. I understood the Business. Yeah. You know.

[Billy]

Well, you. You'd done stuff before.

[Richie Sambora]

A couple times, yeah. I had three record deals before I met John.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

So I had. And my best. One of my best friends was going to law school.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

And he owned a studio that I used to work at.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Studio musician. And then he went to law school and I joined the circus. I was in college and after two years I split. A psychology major and my daughter just got her master's in psychology.

[Billy]

Saw that. Congratulations. That's a. That's a big deal. What's her discipline in psychology? Does she have one? You know, because some. Some people are union and

[Richie Sambora]

she is.

[Billy]

Some people do.

[Richie Sambora]

A trauma survivor, still in transition.

[Billy]

Oh, she's in that.

[Richie Sambora]

Because she's going to be going for a doctor.

[Billy]

That's amazing.

[Richie Sambora]

Congratulations. But she told me she was going to take a break. One of those kids that works the summers.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, you know, you don't have to do it, darling, but I really admire what you're doing.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Because she was keeping up with some very smart people, obviously.

[Billy]

But also. And excellent. I think you understand this context. Not every kid who grows up in LA with rock star dad and, you know, Hollywood star mom goes on to do something with your lives. So you must be triple proud. We.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. And I'm triple thankful, you know, more for anything because it just was myself and I was. I'm a good dad. I pride myself on being a very good dad.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

I mean, it's obvious you love somebody.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You love them all the way.

[Billy]

It's obvious in poking around in your life in prep for this, how much you love your daughter. Oh, yeah. It's humbling because I have A young daughter, 6 years old, just turned 6.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, yeah. But you're good. It's going to blossom.

[Billy]

Yeah. What do they say? Daddies and their daughters. Right?

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. Just. We just spent a lot of time with each other and then when I. We got divorced, she was nine and I. I went to a child psychologist and went, what are the things I can say and I can't say and those kind of things, you know?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And I went, but this is going to be great because I have a undivided attention instead of having split it with anger and things like that that were existing in the marriage. Right. So it became a different happy life.

[Billy]

That's interesting.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, and I bought a smaller house for us that was only a mile away from her mom.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

So it was like. Not like I was. Yeah, you weren't absconding.

[Billy]

Yeah. Get it.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. So that. And I just really talked to her. I never. The reprimanded I had with her was more like. Because I watch it. What would you feel like if you. That was being done to you? Yeah. She was just kind of acting out.

[Billy]

Sure. That's kids. Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. I understand that. But I would. That's. I go. Because when I'm gone, you're gonna have to do this yourself. And eventually what would happen.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Would be that sometimes you take a day, sometimes take a week, sometimes I take a little more. But she go apologizing and work it out with her friends. Yeah. So I was essentially. Because of all the time I spent on the road.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Teaching her self parent.

[Billy]

Oh, okay.

[Richie Sambora]

As much as possible.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Without. But you can't do it. Like.

[Billy]

Yeah, yeah. That's not going to work. I have to learn self reliance.

[Richie Sambora]

You got it. Kind of.

[Billy]

Yeah. I'm in this. My kids are young. They're eight.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

Eight and six. And I'm in that. I'm trying to get them to understand. Like, you're gonna have to figure some of this out on your own. I can't be here all the time. Like 9 to 5 dad. I'm not a 9 to 5 dad. You know.

[Richie Sambora]

Plus you need that time for yourself.

[Billy]

That's true too.

[Richie Sambora]

To enrich yourself.

[Billy]

Oh, yeah. You know, and not go crazy. I was listening to your. I think it's your recent single, Believe in Miracles. Is that.

[Richie Sambora]

I got two more. One that just got.

[Billy]

Of course you. Of course you do. But I'm. Oh, that one. Or I Believe in Miracles, please. Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And that's.

[Billy]

I like this lyric in this song. I really like the song a lot too. Oh, sing a song for our future days A song for the days we sung alone A song for the laughter of tomorrow Help me sing a song of hope we gotta believe in miracles when you dream too much and too high. I thought it was really. I felt that lyric.

[Richie Sambora]

It seems like that sometimes, doesn't it?

[Billy]

Well, not trying to put thoughts in your brain. So this is why I'm asking you. But it seems like, you know, when you experience, you know, you're playing 80,000 people in Russia or wherever you were playing. You know what I mean? There's an adrenaline and it's like.

[Richie Sambora]

What mountain?

[Billy]

Yeah. Right. Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

That's. Okay.

[Billy]

Well, at some point, and I'm not even talking about. You leave that situation behind. I'm talking about at some point you're going to be alone on a Sunday. You look in the mirror and you got to like you got to find something to hold on to. Because once you've achieved those highs and you've felt that dopamine rush, it's, it's not, you're not going to find it in normal life. You're not going to find it going down to grab a coffee.

[Richie Sambora]

No, not, not at all. Not that. But I have found that. You know what. Because I left the band, obviously.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Just.

[Billy]

You left, you left the band? No one told me.

[Richie Sambora]

Nobody heard that. Did you hear about that?

[Billy]

I heard about 13 hours, I think about four hours into the Bon Jovi documentary, they mentioned that you left them.

[Richie Sambora]

It's unbelievable. But here, another. Once again that it's all perspective. Right. God bless that said. Marcus Aurelius said that it's, you know, it's, it's not a thought, it's a perspective.

[Billy]

Interesting.

[Richie Sambora]

Which is so.

[Billy]

Okay, the difference between.

[Richie Sambora]

So that's. I have a different perspective.

[Billy]

What keeps you. I mean, because I, that's what I read in Lyric. What keeps you. Is it God, Is it family? Is it music? All of the above. Like, what keeps you. When you really need to refocus.

[Richie Sambora]

Obviously it's a, you know, Has a lot to do with my daughter.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

It has a lot to do with my love and passion for music. Because I'm self taught. Yeah. I read a lot. I like to read. I just got my cataracts done and then it's fantastic. I could read better again. I still need readers. But my, I see stuff that I never haven't seen in my life. I grew up in a swamp in New Jersey.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Pollution, you know.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

So that was, I mean, things like that are happening and it's just, and as far as business goes, you know, I, I, I saved my money. I did the right thing with it and I don't have to do it for the money.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, that was, that was the main thing. It's like, where did I start? Why did I get into this in the first place? Joy. And you have to do all this stuff and come full circle and you're not quite back to joy yet. And that's what you shoot for.

[Billy]

Yeah. You know, I read this.

[Richie Sambora]

Interesting to be that free as an artist.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And not care about these trappings.

[Billy]

You know, I read this interesting piece once by David Mamet, the great playwright.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

And he said, you know, in the beginning, when you're an artist, you're free. You have complete freedom and you beg for an opportunity and invariably somebody says, hey, sign this and you sign away something and then you spend the next.

[Richie Sambora]

You don't know what is at the time.

[Billy]

Well, you don't realize how valuable it is. They would have you signing it, and then you spend 30, 40 years of your life trying to get back to that freedom. So it reminds me, it's the same thing. Right? You came in because you love music. And to me, you, you know, you strike me like myself, like we're lifers. Oh, this is like. There's no.

[Richie Sambora]

We're around with our sailboats somewhere.

[Billy]

There's no knockout.

[Richie Sambora]

I don't even have a sailboat. I don't know about you.

[Billy]

We're not David Crosby yet, but maybe we'll get there, me and you.

[Richie Sambora]

Like what?

[Billy]

The samboras on the. On the yacht sailing. We'll go down and visit Sammy and Cabo and.

[Richie Sambora]

With fabulous women in bikinis. Well, that's serving us more.

[Billy]

That's not a pumpkin song. That's a Bon Jovi song.

[Richie Sambora]

You can dress them any way you want them.

[Billy]

Well, in our songs, they're dressed in goth, you know, flowing gowns.

[Richie Sambora]

I like that too. I do.

[Billy]

Hey, what do they say? Whatever floats your boat.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. You know, what? With music, there was so much good music that was, you know, coming out when I was coming of age, late 60s, and I was absorbing.

[Billy]

You're just, you know, we're. We're close in age.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

You're just. You're like my older brother. But my point is, is.

[Richie Sambora]

Which is lovely, but size.

[Billy]

Born in 67. You would have been born 60.

[Richie Sambora]

I was born 59.

[Billy]

Okay. So the era you grew up musically, I mean, come on.

[Richie Sambora]

I hit it. It was looking Hendrix and Dylan, ridiculous Beatles.

[Billy]

And in New York. And in New York, I mean, and everybody, Everybody comes to New York.

[Richie Sambora]

Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Hendrick. It's like everybody. Everybody works in New York. That's what I'm saying. I. When I said that I had that tunnel, my mother used to let me go to New York City.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Cuz I never left the building.

[Billy]

I get you.

[Richie Sambora]

That's the reason she let me go. Ah. And I would go to. I stand there in line to get Gabriel tickets and stand there in line to get Zeppelin tickets and. And then go back and it was like. Like, did you ever.

[Billy]

Did you ever get tired of meeting your heroes? Or does this still. Does it still hit you?

[Richie Sambora]

Of course. Every time. Even when I.

[Billy]

Who's. Who's somebody that you would meet and geek out for?

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, anytime I'm with Jimmy Page, I geek out. Anytime I'm with Paul McCartney. I geek out.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Bob Dylan. I'm geeking pretty heavy with him, you know?

[Billy]

I mean, the who, right? Pete.

[Richie Sambora]

Pete and Roger. Yeah, those guys.

[Billy]

What? And Pete's so smart. It's like you feel like you're going to science class. It's cool, right? It's one of the great indulgences of

[Richie Sambora]

our job to be the Rolling Stones.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

I was working with. Don was on my second solo album on Discover Soul. And we're just running a hair late because I was taking on. I'm playing on a Woolly Nelson album. I was playing on all these different records as I was doing that. Yeah. And the Stone started their record. So I had the opportunity to kind

[Billy]

of, like, hang around.

[Richie Sambora]

A dark corner of the Control.

[Billy]

I've heard they're kind of finicky about that.

[Richie Sambora]

They just don't want any people. They got enough. Well, I. Yeah, you would imagine.

[Billy]

I can imagine. So, anyway, so you're hiding in the corner, so.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

So did anyone spot you?

[Richie Sambora]

It was then Don said, hey. You know, because they didn't think much of Bon Jovi. That just wasn't a cup of tea.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

That don't bother me. I saw it. But I still love them. I don't care what anybody says, I still listen to all their records. Yeah. Constantly. They were so well produced.

[Billy]

Amazing.

[Richie Sambora]

So well arranged.

[Billy]

It was a great. Jimmy.

[Richie Sambora]

Jimmy Miller.

[Billy]

Jim. Jimmy Miller.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. You know, like.

[Billy]

And Andrew Luke, Old Home Andrew was kind of a visionary. Maybe not the guest producer, but, you know, very interesting kind of vibe.

[Richie Sambora]

Their records continue to astound me to this day.

[Billy]

Glenn, John, Sydney. Yeah. He also produced who Stuff. Great, great talent.

[Richie Sambora]

Amazing talent. Yeah, but the songs. Jesus.

[Billy]

Oh, come on. It's not fair. God, it's not fair.

[Richie Sambora]

It's not even fair after a while. Yeah.

[Billy]

And of course, you've heard the stories how they would just party for days and just jam.

[Richie Sambora]

And I know they weigh about a buck 25 a piece.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

Just kind of songs would emerge out of the morass of this.

[Richie Sambora]

I want to see every time. It was one of those bands that I saw every time.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Had to.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

That was kind of.

[Billy]

Okay, go back to your story, because it's a good story. So Don was.

[Richie Sambora]

So. Yeah, they were recording crystal. So then Don said, hey, why don't you listen to some of this stuff? Because I had, like. I'm got, like Billy Preston and the Cats.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, like. Yeah, but it sounds like a band.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

You know what I mean?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

I give good band. Okay. I Always have. That's not sexual. But. But so. So. So then I was allowed to come in and hang out while they were cutting.

[Billy]

That's cool.

[Richie Sambora]

Which was in. So beautiful to watch.

[Billy]

Is this. Is. Is. Is Bill Wyman still in the band at this point or. No, no, it's posting.

[Richie Sambora]

Daryl's. What? Daryl's who played on my record.

[Billy]

I know Daryl from Chicago. Daryl's lovely.

[Richie Sambora]

Lovely. Play with Miles.

[Billy]

He's okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, he's just okay. He's just a beautiful cat too, so. But I'm watching. And it was fun to watch them how they started up. Yeah, Keith was really good. Just getting he. Y' all had understudies, right? Very interesting. I'm sorry if I'm giving your secrets away, but, you know, Charlie was alive. He had Kelly.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Right. Wadi.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, and Keith said. Keith had Wadi and everybody else didn't have anybody.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

They get a riff and groove going and tape is. They're doing it. I'm looking at Donna and I'm seeing piles. Yeah, you're gonna have to go through that stuff. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, and we're really good friends at this point, Don and I, you know, so then me and Don. Keith would be listening mixes. I'm sitting there. This is surreal. Keith's. You know, if Brian didn't jump over to pushed him. So about Brian Jones, I went cold.

[Billy]

Oh, yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Brian was great. I thought. I mean, he a lot to that band.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, I mean, everybody there. So much music there. God bless him. Go, Vic.

[Billy]

Hey.

[Richie Sambora]

Unbelievable. I mean, I have heroes. They're all my heroes. They're still my heroes.

[Billy]

Makes a hero in many regards. Right? We all should be so lucky. As we age.

[Richie Sambora]

Is in his business. Acumen has taught me that it's cool to know the business.

[Billy]

Oh, yeah. Nothing wrong. Nothing wrong with. Know what you're assigning away or signing

[Richie Sambora]

or what you're getting.

[Billy]

I don't want to. You know, let's go back to the beginning. But I get the sense that you're.

[Richie Sambora]

You can. Billy.

[Billy]

Well, okay. But I read some stuff. So, you know, it's. Who knows what you read, but it was talking about the loss of your father, Adam, and your mother. Is your mother Joan still alive?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

God bless.

[Richie Sambora]

I stayed with her for five weeks. She's 88.

[Billy]

Amazing.

[Richie Sambora]

First thing I did. I'm very proud of this. I'm not bragging. First thing I did when I made money like my boy would father out of the swamp.

[Billy]

Yeah. God bless. And it must have Been a problem. It must have been a proud day in your life for me.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. The house that I. My partner used to let me stay at, and I told him I was going to buy from him. I got some dosh.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And I bought a cash, knocked it down, rebuilt it from my parents, right. And designed it. A boat, a couple jet skis. Cadillac at Lincoln.

[Billy]

Nice.

[Richie Sambora]

Sold their house, put that money in the bank for them and went, you're done. I've retired you. I'm going back to work.

[Billy]

Wow. Proud day.

[Richie Sambora]

Proud day. First thing I ever did with money.

[Billy]

And I tried that with my.

[Richie Sambora]

You know what else it does? Shuts them up.

[Billy]

Well, I tried that with my mother. And she told me, no,

[Richie Sambora]

she didn't take it from you. But my mother tried to. No, you know what? My mother said to not take it from me too. And my dad was like. My dad was working two jobs, man.

[Billy]

Yeah, I'm ready.

[Richie Sambora]

I'm ready. We were low.

[Billy]

So where's your mom living?

[Richie Sambora]

Point Pleasant, New Jersey.

[Billy]

She still wants to be up northeast.

[Richie Sambora]

You know what?

[Billy]

She likes the weather. I mean, I thought, you're gonna see

[Richie Sambora]

Florida, you know, it's just this place. It's on a river. It's just.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Peaceful.

[Billy]

I get you.

[Richie Sambora]

And that's what she knows. When I was like 19, I had a partner and he had owned 13 houses you could own in the 70s and write them all. Yeah. America was doing that for you.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. And so it was this beautiful house on the river. River wasn't that beautiful or big? Very. I. I could take care of it myself. Sure. You know, but I had freedom to play at night. My house was this big. My grandparents lived upstairs. We lived here. A kitchen, a living room, and one bathroom, thank God, a basement.

[Billy]

So you're down there with the black.

[Richie Sambora]

I was down there playing with my bands. And my mother let my mother. Father let me do that. That was cool. They. They loved music. They were ballroom dancers. They wouldn't.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

At one point. Yeah, that's how they met. Dancing. So music was always.

[Billy]

I love it.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, I'm.

[Billy]

I'm not trying to be morbid, but it's, It's, It's. It is a personal question. You can jump around it if you want, but I. I looked at the dates of when your father passed and I looked at the date of when you left Joby, and it was about five years. Right. And the reason I bring it up is my mother passed away in 96 and five years. Almost like five years to the date. I Just lost it. I had this, like, weird delayed reaction. Did that happen to you?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

It's almost like a bomb went off in my head. I thought it was a couple times.

[Richie Sambora]

Puddles.

[Billy]

I thought it was, like, cool, you know, I mean, like, you're good.

[Richie Sambora]

I thought that was. It was releasing. Yeah, it was releasing tremendous grief.

[Billy]

Yeah. Did you have a delayed reaction to grief?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

Isn't that an interesting phenomenon?

[Richie Sambora]

I explained that to my daughter. I said, sometimes you'll wake up and everything's going great, and then you'll have

[Billy]

a thought and then boom.

[Richie Sambora]

And puddles.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And it's okay.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

It's better.

[Billy]

Your father had cancer, is it? Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

He was a greaser from the 50s. They didn't know any better. And he's smoking the worst. Like, Lucky. No filters.

[Billy]

Yeah. My mother, same thing.

[Richie Sambora]

Three packs.

[Billy]

My mother, same thing that did.

[Richie Sambora]

And luckily, I was in investment with the. The head of MD Anderson, which is the largest cancer center in America. I had invested with him in a few different things. He was in this group I was in. And Herb. And Herb. You can't get in there for like, six months.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

And I happened to be with Denise Richards at the time. And her mother had lung cancer, too, from smoking. Almost similar ages. And I go, just get on a plane and meet me and Houston. And I called on Friday and we were in on that Monday.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Just her because.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Friends. Yeah. You know, and business partners.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

A few different things.

[Billy]

So works in. In this. Because, again, I. I don't think.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. But it does come back. I actually wrote a song, Seven Years Gone.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

About that. And I brought you that album, actually.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

I did.

[Billy]

I, I. Because the reason I thought of it is it's like, you know, people always go to the lowest hanging fruit of any situation. Like, oh, you left your band. Why? What happened? And this. And, and they often miss. Is that there's this. Like a river. There's underlying things going on. Life goes on.

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

Like, we're getting older. Same life. We're getting older. We got kids. There's other things going on.

[Richie Sambora]

I wrote a violin song the other day, and it said, the poorest and the richest still need an ambulance there. Right. It doesn't. You know, just because you're a rock and roll star or you're a successful musician, you are going to have the same problems that everybody else has.

[Billy]

So. So in, in this, if you follow my thought on this, if there's this delayed grief, did you have that moment where you're like, not what am I doing with my life. But a lot of my life is flying by here. My father's gone, my mom ain't getting any younger, you know. Did it. Was there a kind of a cumulative effect for you were like, well, I need to kind of. Does it make sense the way I'm putting that?

[Richie Sambora]

Well, yeah, but no, the definitive cumulative effect literally was I was having a mental health issue with my ex.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

And that was. And I was leaving my young daughter, who is. Was very bright and beautiful.

[Billy]

She would have been around what age?

[Richie Sambora]

Good. Just exactly what the child psychologist told me about nine.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

They're going to start realizing things. Okay, nine.

[Billy]

So you're at this point of like, well, now. Yes.

[Richie Sambora]

Explain Lucy. You know, that's that point.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And it. I'm like, I. I actually enjoyed therapy. I was just like major. And I went to a child therapist. I said, I'm just brushing up, but what can. And what can I. What would be sure. The proper thing to do for this goal?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

At the end of the day, here's

[Billy]

where my focus is.

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And she basically said, you can't say nothing

[Billy]

that's going to be hard for you.

[Richie Sambora]

No, it's true. You can, you can, you can say about the time you spend, but not. My mom can't say anything about that. They have to realize these things for themselves.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

And I said, oh, okay. You know.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

It was. It was that kind of thing. And I have a great rapport with her. I mean, we're. We're even closer than ever. I don't know how that can happen, but we just. Just ourselves, you know. You know, it was like, oh, it's okay.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Like there's a bunch of stuff over here that was taken care of for you out of.

[Billy]

You know, if I'm oversimplifying, you're. You're still in process of grief over your father. You're dealing with issues at home. You're in a band at that point for X number of years. You're toured, your brain's out. You know, you've had all the success that anybody could have. Like, at least put me emotionally at the crossroads you were at.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh, I felt like John was changing his focus and he often wanted to, you know, be a solo artist. And I go, you make yourself. I made five, I think, you know, and toured.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And enjoyed it, you know, immensely.

[Billy]

Was it. He was trying to turn the band and when it was solo band. Is that makes any sense?

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, it seemed. It seemed like he was. Well, he was definitely changing Directions. I came off the road with the aftermath of Load on Record that I did, which was independently released. And I brought you one.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

Just because I. I was listening to

[Billy]

some of it today.

[Richie Sambora]

Just a little. Thank you.

[Billy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And it was. I was tuned. I had great musicians, and they said, all of a sudden, not. You don't got to worry about it, John Shanks. And I wrote, like, 30 songs and.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Richie Sambora]

And I went, hello. Oh, that hurt a little bit.

[Billy]

That hurt me.

[Richie Sambora]

It hurt.

[Billy]

Hello.

[Richie Sambora]

Now, here's a process of, like, 31 years of it going. Not just well.

[Billy]

Like, you can't even think well. You did okay.

[Richie Sambora]

The well meter as well. Beyond the meter.

[Billy]

You're in the red.

[Richie Sambora]

You know what I mean? And I got nothing but gratitude for the opportunity.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And that just. It shook me a little bit. But I said, all right. I said, what do you got? And it didn't sound like bonjour.

[Billy]

What did it sound like to you?

[Richie Sambora]

Like, I don't know. It sounded like every song that I didn't want to write or something.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

It just does. It was.

[Billy]

I hope you take this as a compliment, because I really mean it as a compliment. If you sat me in a room and you said, here's all the Bon Jovi songs. Pick the ones you like and you be okay with on a desert island and discard the ones that you just don't have any connection to. So I know those songs because I've heard them, and, you know, even I found deep cuts that I like and stuff like that. And it's one of those things where I've grown to appreciate the band even more as I've gotten older. Maybe at the time, the hair metal Y kind of times, you know, the grunge thing, we were all kind of like, ah, it felt so oppressive to us. You know what I mean?

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. They have to be categorized.

[Billy]

It was in our. Right. But, you know, for us in that generation, it was in our face with mtv.

[Richie Sambora]

Oh.

[Billy]

Every time we turned around, you guys had really big hair and you looked really cool and you had hot girls, you know, and we were like, you know, in clubs. So I'm saying everybody was working. Right. But you understand the joke I'm making, which is like, of course, it's a generational thing to just reject whatever is there. It's not even personal.

[Richie Sambora]

Absolutely.

[Billy]

Like, I liked a lot of your songs, but it was like, get out of the way.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. No, but it wasn't cool.

[Billy]

Sure. But I'm saying now that I'm older. And I look back, there's a lot of stuff there that I really like. I mean, genuinely, I think this is great.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, thank you.

[Billy]

Okay, so when I was listening to your. A lot of your solo work in preparing for today's interview, it was like, I had this feeling. I'm getting chills, and I hope you take it as a compliment. I was like, this is the Bon Jovi that I like. Where is this Bon Jovi? And then it's like, it's Richie.

[Richie Sambora]

Thank you.

[Billy]

That I like in this mix. The magic is Richie in the mix.

[Richie Sambora]

And.

[Billy]

And the musician in me goes. It's that the way you synergize. Blues, pop, other influences. Oh, look at you.

[Richie Sambora]

You do the same thing. My God, you infiltrated so many different genres. And that's what I loved about I'm

[Billy]

a Thief in the Night.

[Richie Sambora]

That's what I've loved about your records.

[Billy]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

I couldn't wait to see what you were gonna.

[Billy]

How it was gonna destroy my.

[Richie Sambora]

What really, you were gonna pull artistically.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

No, I mean that you would change your voice.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And why.

[Billy]

When you sing. When you sing like a ringrate, you have to. You have to figure some stuff out.

[Richie Sambora]

Sheila, Daphne.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

Thank you. All those records.

[Billy]

Okay, we've entered the. We've entered the final stretch of our psychological dissertation.

[Richie Sambora]

Okay,

[Billy]

I want to talk real quick, because I. I was sort of fascinated, and I. I. It was hard to find some information. I saw something about. So the band was called message, right?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

1982. I saw somewhere where it said you were signed a swan song. And then I saw somewhere where it was like, a failed. Give me the story in that robo.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, I. I got signed Swan Song. I was, like, 19 and a half.

[Billy]

You must have been freaking out.

[Richie Sambora]

What, are you kidding me?

[Billy]

You get to meet.

[Richie Sambora]

No, not then.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Not then.

[Billy]

But was there a con?

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, I was in the studio. Mitch Fox, Sam aa.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

And Stephen Marsh is the lawyer.

[Billy]

Okay. And you're in what studio at this point?

[Richie Sambora]

Lots of different ones. I was in the power station.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

I was in. What was the one on 57th doing with church Media?

[Billy]

Okay. Okay. So a bunch. Put. Put. Put me in the room with Message, because there's not a lot of information about.

[Richie Sambora]

Well, it started out it was a bunch of guys that had a band in New York, and they were looking for the guitar player, and I got in, and the name of the band was screaming Mimi's for a while.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

It was a punky kind of new Yorkers. It's musically finest back then. Yeah. Yeah. Now I believe.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Max's. And. Yeah, everything was. I was playing Guild of Sleuth a couple nights a week, you know, just all around town. And that name wasn't working. And tried another name that wasn't working, but we had the label interested and that was everything. And they were serious.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And they put up the money.

[Billy]

So did. If it. Did it ever. I know it came out later, but again, that's.

[Richie Sambora]

No, you know what?

[Billy]

The information is really messy.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. I know. That never came out yet.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

But I am planning on recording a song from that era.

[Billy]

What? Why didn't it work? I'm just curious. Because. Because the reason. The real story is the business.

[Richie Sambora]

The label blew up.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, Jimmy and Robert, you know.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. And they were running the label. And Bad Company was on the label.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

With my label Mans.

[Billy]

There were a couple other bands that were on the label that were kind of.

[Richie Sambora]

Frank Carlo. That's it.

[Billy]

There's a name that.

[Richie Sambora]

How do I remember that? I don't know. But you were there. And he was very good. But there was, like, you know, to try to get Peter Green. I mean, Peter Grant's attention was. Hello. People would wait a month.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

Downstairs at his house.

[Billy]

Really.

[Richie Sambora]

What? I'm not kidding. Like, employees.

[Billy]

All right. Final stretch. It's not as cheesy as, hey, look at the camera.

[Richie Sambora]

And.

[Billy]

And tell Bonchovi fans what you want them to know. But I feel like there's, like. Let's call it the cheesy version of, like, you know, I still love you. And, like, what don't they unders. Maybe this question. What don't they understand about this story? Like, what's the missing. What's the missing.

[Richie Sambora]

I like the first part of that question because I don't like to accuse anybody of not understanding, because everybody has their own perspective. Sure. On understanding. Right. But all I would say, sincerity beyond the image, beyond what you might think, beyond what you even might have heard or read. It's. I'm a sincere musician and sincere artist, and I will try my hardest till I'm dead. Like Billy said. That's it. But it's really sincere.

[Billy]

That's the you I know.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah.

[Billy]

I don't know you well, but that's the you I know. You're a straight shooter.

[Richie Sambora]

You know me well.

[Billy]

Okay. And we. We have mutual friends, and they.

[Richie Sambora]

I know.

[Billy]

But I speak very highly of you and vice versa. Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

And rightfully so. Right on your end.

[Billy]

That's the part, I guess, but that's the part that sort of annoys me because I see the. The clickbaity stuff and, you know, I see where people like, you know, well, the phone didn't ring and it's like. It's a lot more complicated. And then on another level, it's a lot more simple than that.

[Richie Sambora]

You got it. You don't got it. You know?

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And if you like. I feel like I was born with it. It was a language I understood immediately. It didn't take me long to teach myself how to do any instrument and pick it up very quickly.

[Billy]

Yeah. I mean, you can.

[Richie Sambora]

I had to go backwards and take theory. To put it the other way. I really had muscle memory and air.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, then notation to go back and learn. That was. I learned backwards, basically.

[Billy]

Right.

[Richie Sambora]

But going out and playing live, you know, and getting paid for it. It's like going to the gym. Lovely.

[Billy]

Okay. Last thing. When. When you reach that point in the band where you're like, I gotta get the hell out of here. I have that about once a week. So I'm with you. You know what I mean? Where are you looking? You go, shut up already.

[Richie Sambora]

I with you.

[Billy]

Right. No, it's not fair to go back in time. But what happens in critical moments in our life and our associations with our. Our bandmates, you know, Cuz like. And you know this feeling, no matter what we do in life, always be a pumpkin and you always be in that band.

[Richie Sambora]

Absolutely.

[Billy]

It's weird because the. In the fan's mind, you're in the band even if you're not in the band.

[Richie Sambora]

It pisses you off somehow because it's hard to get around the image.

[Billy]

Sure. But it's also. On some level, it's a testament to what you've done. Right.

[Richie Sambora]

Okay. But I think both of us, at least me and my solo career and you in your whole life had covered so many genres and covered them well.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

That you'd be able to go and find a genre in your maturity.

[Billy]

Sure.

[Richie Sambora]

As an artist where an amalgamation of a couple of those categories or just one or two. Yeah. Will would be at your access to paint sound. Sure. I feel that way about myself.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

I feel like I'm. I'm like, well, you're.

[Billy]

You're just as capable as ever. You haven't lost a step.

[Richie Sambora]

No, I just like lessened and I was like a whole other thing. Like the guys that stayed in the band. God bless them. Yeah. And they were in that groove. I was in no groove. I was in. I was teaching myself and getting into jazz more.

[Billy]

Sure.

[Richie Sambora]

Different areas of music and it was very enriching.

[Billy]

But the last thing I'm after is, you know, I'm not saying as dramatically as the last day before you step through a door and you're like, okay, I'm done. But I'm saying is there are moments in those situations and I've certainly experienced them, where you don't feel you're getting the support you need. You feel like you're saying, does anybody hear. See what I'm going through? Do. Can you. Can you. I'm your brother. Can you relate to where I'm at?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

And it becomes about either dollars and cents or ticket sales or cancellations and you're like, hello, whatever, my name's Richie and I just, you know, I want to be loved. You know what I'm saying?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes, yes.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

I feel that way. And. And what I've gained to experience out of many, many years in this business, as you know, is that people experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands core changes, man.

[Billy]

Yeah. And it's like, you know, it magnifies and then at some point it can.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah, right. It does. You. You know, the straight on focus of when you're young and you don't have any other things to bother you or annoyances or things to tend to. Ferraris or not even just the responsibilities.

[Billy]

That was a joke.

[Richie Sambora]

But yeah, but I, I do have Ferrari. But what are you going to do?

[Billy]

Sorry.

[Richie Sambora]

Sorry about that. It's 20 years old. You want to buy it? It's for sale.

[Billy]

Richie's car.

[Richie Sambora]

No, no, I'm only good. But that's true. I think that we as artists at our age, and me being very sincere at every. Every second. It's not even the music is the way I spend it. But people should have gratitude for every second and really understand the weight of it.

[Billy]

If you'd gotten some of the support you needed, then would it have turned out different or you had to go at that moment because it was just. That was the time.

[Richie Sambora]

The turning point was obviously my daughter. I mean, right? Daughter looks at you and goes, daddy, I need you.

[Billy]

That's it.

[Richie Sambora]

And I go, you know what? I need you too. Did you. In other words, it's like, did you

[Billy]

try to explain that to the guys? Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And plus, they should have saw it. And so.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And you know what? We're all friends. Everything is. There's not like there might be some. Animosity towards me in some directions. But I fought for that man, to put that man together. And then I really wanted us to be abandoned. Help little guys get involved with even the financial. This end of it. Which is boring stuff to be talking about.

[Billy]

But it does matter behind the scenes.

[Richie Sambora]

It matters because there is a glue and a caring.

[Billy]

Yeah. You're ultimately a family whether you want to be or not. And it includes the crew and Absolutely. The guy selling T shirts. He becomes part of your outer world.

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

It's.

[Richie Sambora]

It's. I. I chose to actually be.

[Billy]

Okay, last question. Last question. And I'm not looking for dirt. I'm looking for an opinion.

[Richie Sambora]

Because you're looking for dirt.

[Billy]

No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm really not.

[Richie Sambora]

He's looking for dirt.

[Billy]

I'm not that. I'm only kidding. No. Because I think.

[Richie Sambora]

You know what? I love this interview, by the way.

[Billy]

Thank you.

[Richie Sambora]

And I want to thank you for asking me because you're a great interviewer.

[Billy]

And now I gotta ask the jerk question.

[Richie Sambora]

You could jerk me off if you want. I don't care.

[Billy]

You're a very handsome man.

[Richie Sambora]

Stop already. All right, I'll put my intelligent glasses on.

[Billy]

If. If there's a. In my mind, there's like a. Like a dial sometimes with the decisions we make. Right. So if. If. If a band is 70% music and 30% business or 60, 40. You know what I mean? At some point did that dial get to become too much about business and not enough about music? Does that make sense?

[Richie Sambora]

Yes. But not to me. It wasn't that.

[Billy]

No. But I'm saying with the people you were in business with, did you feel that they got too much about business and less about music cuz you was a musician?

[Richie Sambora]

No, I didn't feel that. I didn't feel that.

[Billy]

Okay. So you were good with that.

[Richie Sambora]

I was. I was good with that. It was more. It was. It was getting stale. It was. It was 30. Almost 32 years.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

And there was some feelings that needed to be communicated.

[Billy]

Sure.

[Richie Sambora]

That were not.

[Billy]

But that's not atypical.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, it's not especially.

[Billy]

Especially with guys.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. From New Jersey. Give me a break.

[Billy]

So, you know, I don't.

[Richie Sambora]

I didn't want to bring my problems to work.

[Billy]

Sure.

[Richie Sambora]

They were everywhere anyway. Yeah. You know, I didn't even have a publicist and I was just. Everywhere, no matter what I did. It was just one of those things.

[Billy]

Yeah. And you were clickbait before clickbait.

[Richie Sambora]

I was. Isn't that sexy? But I have a girl now. I have a woman now that I've had now over two years, and we have a wonderful relationship. And to fall in love at 63 with the wisdom.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

And she's also smart, and she's also healthy and beautiful and 60, and it's a different way. It invigorates you very much. It's a different way to fall in love. Yeah. It's like. It's like, you know, people that wish, they say, well, I wish I knew that. That when I was. Dad. I'm in high school back then.

[Billy]

What's that line from the Rod Stewart song? I do know that. Yeah. I wish I knew now what I knew. Ronnie Lane, I think, wrote that line.

[Richie Sambora]

Yes.

[Billy]

Beautiful.

[Richie Sambora]

I wish. Yeah. Well, but so that kind of happened to me, and it was crazy because I was at my singing teacher's house and I was getting ready to do a show, which it was a ridiculous show, but a lot of fun to do, called the Masked Singer.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

In England. Yeah. Hard to costume very well. It's wild you did that.

[Billy]

I didn't see that.

[Richie Sambora]

Yeah. And I almost. You can't really win. It's like, who's fooling who?

[Billy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

But I got a chance to just go out and sing.

[Billy]

Okay.

[Richie Sambora]

Right. And whenever I took that damn mask off, people were going to be surprised.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Richie Sambora]

You know, so I was doing it for a little bit of an ulterior motive. Sure. But there were three networks that wanted me in England to be, like, a judge on this. That kind of thing. And I go, that's the hardest one, though. But I think it'll have the most value in the end, you know? And I didn't pick the songs, and they don't want. It's a really wild album.

[Billy]

But they have you sing.

[Richie Sambora]

I sang. I opened a show as the first artist, and it's the biggest show on TV there in England with Elvis, Vivi, Las Vegas.

[Billy]

That ain't an easy song to sing.

[Richie Sambora]

I gotta admit. I don't listen to anything you killed. I killed it. Then I did Hallelujah after that.

[Billy]

Okay. That ain't exactly easy either. I.

[Richie Sambora]

And that was good. And then they wanted me to do something by a woman, and I said, name it whatever you'd like. So I had Back in Black and Sweet, Sweet Dreams by Annie. She's a mezzo. That's an A. That's perfect for me. I did have to change the key for Amy, and as a goof, I did a version of if I Could Turn Back Time.

[Billy]

Oh, my God. I think that's where we end, right there. I can't top.

[Richie Sambora]

No, no, no.

[Billy]

Thank you. God bless you.

[Richie Sambora]

Thank you. God bless you, Billy. It's a lot of fun.