Robby Krieger | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

Episode Summary: Robby Krieger | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan
Release Date: June 4, 2025

In this engaging episode of "The Magnificent Others," Billy Corgan sits down with Robby Krieger, the legendary guitarist of The Doors, to explore the intricate journey following the band's pinnacle of success. Through candid conversation, they delve into the challenges of life after Jim Morrison's untimely death, Robby's subsequent musical endeavors, and the enduring legacy of The Doors.

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1. Life After The Doors and Jim Morrison's Death

The conversation opens with reflections on the impact of Jim Morrison's passing and its profound effect on the band.

• Robby Krieger [00:00]: "And the movie really is what revamped the interest in the Doors."
• Billy Corgan [00:16]: "I'm surprised. Did anyone call you to join their band?"

Robby discusses the immediate aftermath of Morrison's death, highlighting the disbelief and the initial decision to continue without their iconic frontman.

• Robby Krieger [09:16]: "When we heard that he was gone, we didn't believe it... we sent our manager... to check it out."
• Robby Krieger [11:03]: "Electra Records... said, why don't you guys put out another record?"

2. Continuing the Band: Challenges and Decisions

Billy and Robby explore the complexities of maintaining The Doors' legacy without Morrison, touching on industry pressures and personal reservations.

• Billy Corgan [11:33]: "Do you have any reservations? You felt like, let's just keep going."
• Robby Krieger [11:46]: "We did have reservations... maybe, maybe it was a stupid idea."

They discuss the struggle of balancing commercial expectations with artistic integrity, comparing it to other bands that have continued with different lead singers.

• Billy Corgan [12:18]: "Such a timeless band dynamic exists when you guys played together."

3. The Soul Savages and Instrumental Pursuits

Robby introduces his new project, Robby Krieger and the Soul Savages, focusing on instrumental music inspired by legends like Booker T. & the MGs.

• Billy Corgan [00:55]: "New album, right? Robbie Krieger and the Soul Savages."
• Robby Krieger [01:10]: "My hope is to have an instrumental hit and like Booker T. Yeah."

They discuss the creative process behind the album, Robby's ambition to revive instrumental rock, and the influence of classic hits like "Green Onions."

• Robby Krieger [05:50]: "We're still looking for my sg... using dowsing rods."

4. Band Naming and Identity

The duo humorously debates the origins of The Doors' name and the subsequent moniker for Robby's new band, reflecting on the importance of a band’s name in its identity and marketing.

• Robby Krieger [02:18]: "Exactly. So was the Butts band."
• Billy Corgan [05:58]: "If the Doors was a stupid name, what would have been a better name?"

They share anecdotes about the naming process, including contributions from band members like Marco.

5. Musical Evolution and Influences

Robby delves into his musical journey post-Doors, exploring his ventures into blues and instrumental music, while maintaining the unique sound that defines his artistry.

• Robby Krieger [71:36]: "Race was blues to Ray... we all love the blues."
• Billy Corgan [73:00]: "It's like we can build our own world. The Doors did that."

They analyze how The Doors' commitment to a specific musical path allowed them to transcend genres and create a distinctive sound.

6. Personal Reflections and Legacy

Billy shares his personal connection to The Doors, influenced by his teenage years reading Danny Sugerman's book, and how Jim Morrison inspired his own musical pursuits.

• Billy Corgan [34:03]: "Set the Night on Fire. I really enjoyed this book a lot."
• Robby Krieger [35:35]: "We could put music to this and it would be cool."

Robby speaks about the enduring influence of The Doors on new generations, including his appreciation for Billy's tribute and the band's lasting impact.

• Billy Corgan [33:13]: "You're playing is strong as ever."
• Robby Krieger [36:03]: "It's really one of my favorite Doors albums."

7. Mythology vs. Reality

The episode explores the dichotomy between the public mythos surrounding The Doors and the genuine personal experiences within the band, emphasizing Robby's efforts to present an authentic narrative.

• Robby Krieger [08:43]: "Both of their books were kind of... they put each other down for various reasons."
• Billy Corgan [07:15]: "It's like when you're in the band, it's different."

They discuss how media portrayals often overshadow the real dynamics and relationships within the band.

8. Reflections on Tours and Performances

Robby recounts memorable performances and the band's rigorous touring schedule, highlighting the camaraderie and creativity that fueled their live shows.

• Billy Corgan [14:30]: "You guys were really a great live band."
• Robby Krieger [52:33]: "Every night, pretty much. At least two, maybe more."

They reminisce about the energy of live performances and the band's ability to captivate audiences consistently.

9. Personal Life and Stability

Robby emphasizes the importance of personal relationships and stability in navigating the tumultuous world of rock stardom, highlighting his long-standing marriage and grounded lifestyle.

• Billy Corgan [80:09]: "Having a partner with you through this whole journey must be an incredible thing."
• Robby Krieger [80:43]: "Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I think she doesn't really appreciate it, but..."

10. Closing Thoughts and Mutual Respect

The episode concludes with mutual admiration and respect between Billy and Robby, underscoring the profound influence The Doors have had on musicians across generations.

• Billy Corgan [84:32]: "In loss, whether it's family or generational... I do appreciate him."
• Robby Krieger [84:36]: "Thank you, man. Appreciate it."

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Notable Quotes:

• "When we heard that he was gone, we didn't believe it..." — Robby Krieger [09:16]
• "No, not really because of the Doors. You know, it was, I said, okay, that's over." — Robby Krieger [30:02]
• "You have to sound like you're drunk." — Billy Corgan [57:36]
• "Every blues song we ever did was not just a blues." — Robby Krieger [73:31]

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Key Insights:

• Resilience and Adaptation: Robby Krieger's determination to continue making music post-Doors showcases the resilience required to adapt to significant losses within a band.

• Authentic Legacy: Both hosts emphasize the importance of preserving the authentic legacy of The Doors, free from exaggerated myths.

• Musical Influence: The Doors' unique musical language continues to inspire artists like Billy Corgan, highlighting the timeless nature of their sound.

• Personal Stability: Maintaining personal relationships and a grounded lifestyle proved essential for Robby in navigating the highs and lows of musical fame.

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This episode offers a deep dive into Robby Krieger's journey beyond The Doors, illustrating the complexities of sustaining artistic integrity amidst change and the enduring influence of a legendary band on future generations of musicians.

Transcript

[Robbie Krieger]

And the movie really is what revamped the interest in the Doors.

[Billy Corgan]

But you remember, even I hate to admit it, drugs versus spirituality.

[Robbie Krieger]

In the 60s, drugs were spirituality.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm surprised. Did anyone call you to join their band?

[Robbie Krieger]

No.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, you wrote a lot of big hit songs. You think somebody would have called you.

[Robbie Krieger]

I think people were kind of scared maybe. You know.

[Billy Corgan]

Scared. Scared of you. Guitarist Robbie Krieger was one quarter of one of the greatest rock and roll bands in history, the Doors. But here we explore life after the Doors, after Jim Morrison's death, and the years that set the Doors into the stratosphere of rock. Valhalla LA can make you crazy. Has LA made you crazy, Robbie?

[Robbie Krieger]

No.

[Billy Corgan]

You still doing all right?

[Robbie Krieger]

I grew up here.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Right. So, okay, let's start here.

[Robbie Krieger]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

New album, right? Robbie Krieger and the Soul Savages.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Now it's all instrumental.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Are you. Is it like a Booker t in the MGs? Are you trying to bring back kind of the instrumental?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, that's my. My hope is to. To have an instrumental hit and like Booker T. Yeah. In fact, so many great.

[Billy Corgan]

Was it so. So Hugger or Green Onions? Hip huggers.

[Robbie Krieger]

Thank you. Green Onions.

[Billy Corgan]

Did you like that music? Do you like Stacks?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and that's not what I'm trying to do, but I'm just saying in general, to have a. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

No, I'm not saying it sounds like.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, to bring back that.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

The instrumental hit type of deal. You know, it's fun.

[Billy Corgan]

And, of course, I read this book when it came out. So it's great to talk to you about some of the stuff in the book. Set the Night on Fire. I really enjoyed this book a lot. We'll talk about that. Okay, so let's start with the Soul Savages thing.

[Robbie Krieger]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

I saw a funny thing where you said Robbie Krieger and the Soul Savages is a stupid name. But then I also saw where you said the Doors was a stupid name, too.

[Robbie Krieger]

Exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

So what should the Soul Savages be called?

[Robbie Krieger]

And so was the Butts band.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

You ever hear about the Butts?

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, I think I read about it in this wonderful book of yours.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. What would I rather have? Yeah, that was the one we picked. You know, Marco is great at names, so he made up about 100 names.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

And we whittled it down from.

[Billy Corgan]

Was it a democratic vote? Yeah, but it shouldn't be because it's called Robbie Krieger First. You see.

[Robbie Krieger]

I know, and I just want to hold rank I. Well, I really didn't want it to be Robbie. Yeah. I wanted to be more like a real group type thing, but, you know, they said, oh, well, you get more airplay or something. Right now. People love the Doors and all that, but then they're going to think it's going to sound like the Doors.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

So.

[Billy Corgan]

I thought your guitar playing sounded great. Great tones.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, thanks.

[Billy Corgan]

Are you playing an SG or.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yep, still playing the sg, I remember.

[Billy Corgan]

I. I've seen a bunch of the videos that you posted. Did you. The. Your. Your original got lost, right. Or somebody stole it, Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, Stolen something.

[Billy Corgan]

Surprised it hasn't surfaced. I'm sure you've seen some of those things where people are finding.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Paul McCartney's guitar and.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I can't believe somebody hasn't found your. Your sg.

[Robbie Krieger]

I know. I think it must be just sitting somewhere in an attic.

[Billy Corgan]

You probably don't know the story, but somebody stole my guitar from a gig in Detroit in 1992, and it was gone for 27 years. And I got it back.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

Somebody showed up with it.

[Robbie Krieger]

How did you get it back?

[Billy Corgan]

This gentleman contacted me and said, I think I have your guitar. And I'd heard this before. So I was very skeptical. And he sent, obviously, new digital photos of my guitar. And there were certain markings that only I would recognize. And I knew right away it was my guitar. And I thought, this just can't be. And the story I was told was somebody bought it at a garage sale and it was hung on somebody's wall. And eventually they came into the basement and they saw it and they said, that's Billy Corgan's missing guitar. And I don't really believe the story, but all I know is I got my guitar back.

[Robbie Krieger]

What kind was it?

[Billy Corgan]

A 70s strat. Had a very distinctive sound. You know, when you have a guitar, like that guitar was your guitar, right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

And, you know, like that thing had a certain cut this way and it sounded good in this key. So when you lose that and you go looking for the other guitar and it never quite gets the same thing. Such a painful.

[Robbie Krieger]

Luckily my guitar wasn't that great. I mean, it was just a sound like any other. As it wasn't even an SG. It was a Les Paul Jr. Yeah. Special Junior, I think.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Had the black pickups, you know. And, you know, I. I did the first two albums with that guitar.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

So it sounded pretty good.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

But when somebody stole it, I was kind of happy because, oh, boy, I can get something else.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, I hope they find it I. I would buy that guitar if it was.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. We thought we found it a couple of months ago, but it turned out it was not it.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

But now I've got a guy, my friend Jerry, and he's using those tuning forks or whatever they call your dowsing rods. Dowsing rods. And he claims it, that it's here in LA somewhere.

[Billy Corgan]

Wow.

[Robbie Krieger]

So we're still looking.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, so if the Doors was a stupid name, what would have been a better name?

[Robbie Krieger]

Better name than the Doors? Ah, that's a good question. I don't know.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. I mean, was the. The name Jim's idea or was it a somebody else?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, it was Jim's.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Do you guys have a vote on that one?

[Robbie Krieger]

No, I. In fact, they. They had named it before I was even in the band.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

So I had. No.

[Billy Corgan]

I didn't know that part.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Yep. I was the last one in to be inducted into the band.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Robbie Krieger]

So.

[Billy Corgan]

So, fun fact, I was with Linda Ramone, who was Johnny Ramones, widow of the Ramones, and she said you're the only person the Ramones ever invited on stage, ever.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Wow.

[Billy Corgan]

The only person who played with the Ramones that wasn't in the Ramones ever. She showed me the clip of you guys playing a Door song.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, I remember.

[Billy Corgan]

Take it as it Comes, I think.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, that's right. Wow. And that was so weird because nobody ever plays that song.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

As you know, when you go up and hey, let's do a door Roadhouse Blues. Yeah, it's always I Light My Fire, Roadhouse Blues. Love me Two times. But that's. That was crazy.

[Billy Corgan]

I thought it was pretty cool.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Got your punk bona fides there. So this is a strange way to make. Jump into this. But I. I'm fascinated because obviously, you know, Door's mythology is. You have the movie, you have the book, you know, and what I loved about your book holding up again is. And you say it very early in the book, I'm just going to tell the story as I experience it. Like, I'm really not into the whole mythological part of this whole thing. I'm just going to talk about the person that I knew and my experience with these other guys. Yeah, I love that. And I really. If you're a Doors fan, and I'm a huge Doors fan, it's a real. It feel. You feel like you're in the room without all the extra junk on top of it. Does it make sense to you?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, I hope so. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Because, you know, my band's 36 years and going. Not continuously, but. And for you, it's been how many years?

[Robbie Krieger]

50.

[Billy Corgan]

We remember what it was like to be in the living room practicing. You know what I mean? Not the magazine cover part, you know, arguing over hamburger and fries and stuff. It's a different experience when you're in the band as opposed to what people think the band was. And your band particularly probably has more mythology around it than just about any other band ever. And you talk about that, and so does John Densmore. In his book, he talks about sort of the Rays puffing up the mythology of the band.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, they. Both of their books were kind of. They kind of each put each other down for various reasons.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, that's the other part about being a band is you love and maybe don't love each other, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

Exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

But this is an interesting way to get into it because obviously it's been a long time. So I looked up the date the gym passed. It was July 3, 1971. So if you could, if you want, I found myself thinking, what did it feel like on July 4, 1971? Did you guys have a meeting? Did you. Like, how did you even kind of begin to grapple with what was going on?

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, well, we. When we heard that he was. He was gone, we. We didn't believe it, for one thing. Cause, you know, there was always rumors about, you know, Paul is dead and blah, blah, blah. So we sent our manager, Bill Siddons, over to France, to Paris to, you know, to check it out. And unfortunately, he never saw the body. So, you know, we were still thinking, gee, maybe he's. Maybe he really just trying to fool everybody.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

But after a while, it sunk in and.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. And the reason I ask is not to be morbid, is because you guys made the decision to carry on and you did two more albums.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right. Right.

[Billy Corgan]

So I'm more interested in that, which is like, hey, what do we do? We're a great band. You know, we've had all the success and you guys were a great band. I mean, the way you three played together was legendary. And still.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, we were. I mean, you know, so what happened is when Jim had. Had gone to Paris, we. We had continued to. To practice and play almost, you know, every day.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And we. We had come up with a whole bunch of new songs that. That, you know, we're going to be on the next album.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And if Jim liked him.

[Billy Corgan]

Right, right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And so, you know, Electra Records, Jack Holman, he was. He was really cool about the whole thing. And he, he, he, he says, why don't you guys, you know, put out another record? I, you know, everybody's going to want Ms. Jim and everything, but, you know, in our contract we had two more albums to go.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

So he says, yeah, let's do, you know, let's, let's keep, keep it, keep it going, you know.

[Billy Corgan]

And did you feel, do you have any reservations? You felt like, Leo, let's just keep going.

[Robbie Krieger]

We did have reservations, you know, mean, you know, it's like the Stones are going on without Mick Jagger or something like that. And maybe, maybe it was a stupid idea. I don't know.

[Billy Corgan]

I don't know.

[Robbie Krieger]

But I, I, I really love some of those songs that are on those albums.

[Billy Corgan]

So, yeah, I think it was, you know, it struck me in thinking about it this morning because I knew I was going to interview you is these days you see bands carry on with different lead singers and the public has kind of gotten used to it. Like, if it had happened, if it happened to you today, if you were in that exact situation today, I think people would have said, yeah, you should carry on. Now, obviously there will be some people don't. But even a famous band like Linkin park, their lead singer passed away. Chester, who was a great link singer, and Linkin park just came back with a new singer, a female. Yeah, it's quite good. But I'm saying is the world seems to have, for lack of a better way to put it, matured with the idea that if people still want to hear the music, it's better to hear the music and not get caught up in necessarily the personality part of it all. Thank you very much. And Journey is a stadium band with a singer that they found on YouTube.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

You know what I'm saying?

[Robbie Krieger]

That worked out.

[Billy Corgan]

And I know you guys did tour like with Ian Asbury, who's somebody I'm very fond of, but like, I think the environment for you would be much more receptive now, where back then I think it was probably more harsh, like bands over. Right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. I mean, you know, even then when Ray and I decided to keep to touring, it was pretty well received, you know, it was pretty damn cool. I just wish John had had come along, but he didn't want to.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. And you're talking about later when you guys were touring.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, this was like.

[Billy Corgan]

But back to this time, okay, so first show, three shows in. You know, you guys are totally tweaked as a four piece. And one of my things about you is as a fan is you're one of those rare bands where the four elements together are really, it's the sort of a magical thing that happens when you guys play. And I've listened to countless live recordings. I don't think I've ever heard you guys do a bad gig. And I'm sure I, I, I missed a few, but, and I'm not trying to be a fanboy, I'm saying is you guys were really a great live band. So now you got one missing element. How was that internally? How did it feel? And then how, how was the crowd with you?

[Robbie Krieger]

The crowd was great. You know, they, they were very cool. Nobody's saying, hey, where's Jim?

[Billy Corgan]

Really?

[Robbie Krieger]

No, no, none of that. And, you know, so Ray and I were left to be the singers.

[Billy Corgan]

Right? Who's the better singer? You were, you were, you were. Ray put you on the spot.

[Robbie Krieger]

I think Ray was better, probably, but. And then we had this other guy, Bobby Ray, who was rhythm guitar player and, and singer, and he sang a few of the songs. He was pretty good. But what happened was after the two albums, we decided, hey, maybe we should find a singer.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

So we Talked about Paul McCartney, of course, and Bob Dylan.

[Billy Corgan]

And I saw Iggy Pop somewhere.

[Robbie Krieger]

Iggy Pop? Yeah. But then we, for some reason, we decided to go to Europe. Let's go to Europe and find somebody over there, you know, that'll be different.

[Billy Corgan]

Sounds very 70s, like, let's go to Europe and find a singer.

[Robbie Krieger]

So we did, we went over there and pretty much moved our whole families over there and to London. And we were, you know, trying this guy, that guy. We didn't really get very far. And before Ray kind of blew the whole thing off.

[Billy Corgan]

Really?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, because, because Dorothy was pregnant and she was not doing too well and she was, you know, you know, mentally, sometimes when you're pregnant, you get, go crazy.

[Billy Corgan]

My wife is currently pregnant, so I, I am.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, so at that point it was okay, the doors are over. And we, you know, John and I were kind of pissed because, you know, we, we thought we still had some good stuff in us, you know.

[Billy Corgan]

How old are you at this point?

[Robbie Krieger]

Like 25? Ish.

[Billy Corgan]

A little young to have to decide it's over.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I think we could have been like a jazz trio, you know, because, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, the whole idea to go, going over there was to find another singer, but we, we never really got close to finding a singer really.

[Billy Corgan]

So were you hoping to find somebody that had their own thing and then that would become Additive, like you weren't trying to necessarily recreate as much as sort of innovate.

[Robbie Krieger]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

And when you say that about a jazz trio, what's interesting is the musical language of the Doors was so unique, I can actually kind of hear it. You know what I mean? Where most bands, I would think, well, where does that go? But with you guys, I could see where something would come of it.

[Robbie Krieger]

Sure. And I mean. Yeah, and. And some of those songs, like I say on the. On the two albums, were pretty damn good.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. So you find yourself. Okay, 25ish bands. Done. What do you say to your wife? You know what I mean? Like, like, where are we going? Or did you take a year off? I mean, what did you.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, we, we stayed in, in London and John and I decided to form another band.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

So we, we came across this guy, Jess Roden. He was. He was one of the guys lined up to maybe be in the Doors. And he was pretty cool. He had some really nice, good songs. And he was really into reggae, which John and I were getting into. And he happened to know this guy, Phil Chen, who was probably the best bass player in London at the time. He was a session guy. He had come from Jamaica and, you know, with the reggae group. I forgot the name of it, but they were, you know, pretty big time reggae band and they kind of broke up. And then he decided to stay in London and be a session guy. So we. J. Jess Roden was buddies with him, so we decided to try him out. And it was great. He was the perfect bass player for, for our new band. And so we made an album.

[Billy Corgan]

And what was that called, sir? What was the band?

[Robbie Krieger]

The Butts Band.

[Billy Corgan]

That was the Butts. I thought. Sorry, I thought that came later.

[Robbie Krieger]

Talk about a bad name.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, not, not to look backwards, but it might have stifled your commercial upside there.

[Robbie Krieger]

I mean. Okay, that didn't mean what it means here, really.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. But if, if this is a bad name and the Doors is a bad name, I think. I think the Butts wins the bad name.

[Robbie Krieger]

Anyway, we. We decided to make an album and we got Bruce Spotnik to come over to England.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And which he was happy to do. And we, we started the, the album at Dynamic. Now what's the name of that studio over there where everybody play goes?

[Billy Corgan]

Well, there was island back, back in the day it was emi.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Olympics.

[Robbie Krieger]

Olympic.

[Billy Corgan]

Get there eventually.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, Olympic Studio. So we did half of it there and then we decided to go to Jamaica because Phil was from Jamaica and he really hadn't seen his family for a long time and he was so happy to go back there. And Chris Blackwell became friends with us and he, he had a, this great house up there called Strawberry Fields. Right, Or Strawberry, Yeah, I think it was Strawberry Field. And so he let us stay there and we recorded the rest of the album at Dynamic Studios and. Which was really cool because, you know, all these reggae guys were, were recording there. Jimmy Cliff, who didn't, didn't have much interest in us.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

But he was okay, he was a nice guy.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

But Phil had a great time.

[Billy Corgan]

So were you thinking, I still have a future in commercial music or I just want to be a musician and make a living? I mean, where was your, I mean, you're coming off a pretty big high of success. That's pretty rare. I mean, most people don't, as, you know, most people might have one album, two albums. I mean, you guys had five, six albums that all had hits, all had classics.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, no, I mean, you know, as far as I was concerned, and probably John too, we were gonna stick with it.

[Billy Corgan]

Right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Make, have another band and, and you know, prove that it wasn't just luck. Sure. To have a Jim Morris.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And so what happened was we, after we finished the album in Jamaica, they all came, the English guys came to stay in L. A and we decided, you know, we tried to launch the band from L. A and it didn't really work out very well. The first thing that went wrong was we were on Electra Records and who was the guy that was the president of Electra?

[Billy Corgan]

Jack Holtzman?

[Robbie Krieger]

No, the one after him.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

He was a really not likable guy.

[Billy Corgan]

Sometimes, but is it like a famous name?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So a famous shark?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Okay, so he, he listens to the album and you know, we, we, we really had fun doing this album and had Bruce Spotnik, great engineer.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, fantastic.

[Robbie Krieger]

And so this guy listens to it and he goes, you know, I think you should redo the album with Tom Dowd. And you know, stupidly, I, I, I, we should have done it. Just to do something with Tom Dowd would have been cool, but I just got all pissed off and I had this horrible look on my face, I guess because the guy says, wow, I guess you don't like that idea. You've got all the excitement of a half dead worm. So when I told that to Phil Chen from then on, he called me the Worm. So that was my nickname from then on. So we, we said that, let's just put, we'll go somewhere else. So We. We went and met with Bob Krasnow, you know who he is? So he had. What was his company called?

[Billy Corgan]

Was he with Columbia or Blue Note? Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

He took over Blue Note and yeah, he had. He had a lot of great people on there, on that.

[Billy Corgan]

Was anybody pushing it back in America against the band name?

[Robbie Krieger]

No.

[Billy Corgan]

Really?

[Robbie Krieger]

I found that didn't seem to bother.

[Billy Corgan]

They hated my band name.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, yeah. They tried to get us to change our band name 50 times.

[Robbie Krieger]

It's not that bad.

[Billy Corgan]

It worked out.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. So you guys just refused to change, right?

[Billy Corgan]

Yes, sir.

[Robbie Krieger]

Good for you.

[Billy Corgan]

It's not so much that I love the band name, it's that people always remembered the band name. It was one of those weird names. If you said it once, no one ever forgot. Had kind of a lucky thing to it where if you've just heard it, people. I would see people six months later and they would know the name of the band. It was just, you know, it's good marketing. It's just like it's stuck. But back to you. So the launch goes not so good.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. So we had this, you know, we had our manager, Bill Siddons, who had managed the Doors for. For the past, you know, year or so originally. He was our roadie.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And for one reason or another, he couldn't get much lined up. Yeah. To. For at least not enough so that the English guys got. Oh, they bored and stuff and they. They decided to go back to England. So John and I stupidly reformed the Bus Band, which. And. And there's really still some good stuff. On that second album we had this guy, Michael Stahl, who was the singer. He was actually a really good singer. And we had. We found this bass player, Carl Rucker, who is called Slick. And he was really good bass player.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And then we had this girl keyboard player, Alex Richmond. And so we did. We did a couple of minor tours with that band and it didn't really go anywhere.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

So that was it. John decided to become an actor.

[Billy Corgan]

And of course he won a bunch of Academy Awards. And I'm sorry, with all due respect to John, I had that happen in my band. I had a band member quit and become an actor. So I'm a little salty about the whole idea. It's like, you know, because I said to this person, have you ever acted before? And the person said, no.

[Robbie Krieger]

Who was that?

[Billy Corgan]

Now I'm going to be an actor, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

So who was that?

[Billy Corgan]

That was the. The female bass player in the original band. She just announced somewhere in the end of the 90s that she was going to be an actor, even though she'd never acted. Well, I guess somehow Mickey Rourke's connected to that story. But we'll, we'll tell that story for another day. So he's in now, he's an actor.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Ray is doing like Carmina Barana or whatever, right?

[Robbie Krieger]

He was doing like, he, he did X, he, he produced.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So remember he did, he did that album where it was like, about a dung beetle pushing across the universe or something. Right. It's so, it's so behind the music. It's like this guy quits to be an actor. This guy's doing the. The musical about the dung beetle.

[Robbie Krieger]

So I just started doing album. Instrumental albums.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And.

[Billy Corgan]

Can I, can I stop you there? Because I'm. Because I'm always curious because everybody likes this part of the story, you know, the shiny. The shiny. You know, when you were on Ed Sullivan and all this type of stuff. I'm just as interested when, because I've experienced it myself. When, especially in this town in Los Angeles, like, did you see people treating you differently? Were people, you know, your friends no longer your friends? Did you go through that whole weirdness?

[Robbie Krieger]

Not really. Not really. I mean, people that were my friends were mostly. Not really because of the Doors. You know, it was, you know, because I was a golfer, so I had a lot of golfing friends. And that didn't really bother me. In fact, I just kind of shut off the Doors. I said, okay, that's over.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

I'm never going to have that type of thing again.

[Billy Corgan]

Sentimental about it. Were you like, hey, that was amazing. And now I just got to go on to something else, like. Because that's a curious thing. You know, not many people experience your success.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

And then like one day you wake up and it's. Your band, isn't your band anymore. You soldier on. You find yourself in this unique situation. You're in your mid-20s.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right? Right.

[Billy Corgan]

You know, it's an interesting perspective and I, I guess I'm taking it more like a spiritual point, you know, like life presents us with really unique challenges.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

You've always struck me as a pretty down to earth person. So you're saying my friends were my friends. That makes sense to me. You know, you weren't necessarily caught up in the LA Bull.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right? Exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

So you lean back into what you knew, which is.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. And back then, it really wasn't like today, if you're, you know, in a band and It's. And. And you're known. You know, people go and play in other bands and sure do all that. It wasn't really like that back then.

[Billy Corgan]

Didn't. I'm surprised. Did anyone call you to join their band?

[Robbie Krieger]

No, not really. I. I think you wrote a lot.

[Billy Corgan]

Of big hit songs. You think somebody would have called you.

[Robbie Krieger]

I think people were kind of. Kind of scared maybe, you know.

[Billy Corgan]

Scared of you.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yours is so weird, you know.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And. Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's how I saw it. I did. I did go out and tour with Eric Burden and.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

Some stuff like that. But, you know, I mean, you.

[Billy Corgan]

You know, we all look back on our 20s and we realize we're in a sort of a particular type of prime.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. And I. And then, you know, I had a kid. We had a. My family and. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So I know you've been with your wife since 1972 years. That's amazing.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, that's part of it, though, right? You lean back on your relationship, your family, your.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. And so I would say, what were we talking about?

[Billy Corgan]

Well, no, it's just. It's just the idea of, you know, America likes its shiny stuff, but I'm just as interested in the stuff that affects us as musicians. Right. Like, we both had the experience of a lot of success, and then that success casts a particular shadow. And what you do with that shadow is like, in your case, you've always just played music.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

You could have quit. You could have started, you know, an aquarium, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. I mean, my. My deal was to always get better.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

As a guitar player.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And, you know, sometimes it took a wrong turn here and there, I would say. But I think if you get this album, you. You'll see where I'm at now.

[Billy Corgan]

This album. Yeah. Well, it's amazing.

[Robbie Krieger]

I think I've improved as a musician.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, you're playing is strong as ever. And it's definitely you playing.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. I think only you play like you.

[Billy Corgan]

Which is.

[Robbie Krieger]

Wouldn't recognize my. My.

[Billy Corgan]

That's what I'm saying. As a fellow guitar player, that's the greatest compliment. It's like when I listen to this, it's you playing. I can tell it's you. Your voice is in the. The chords and notes and the. Even the way you hit the pick, you know?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. You're the same way.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Okay, let's jump into the deep end of the pool, which is this incredible Doris mythology. Right. So 1978, you release American Prayer, which was Jim's Recordings mostly of poetry and then you. Musical backing and.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right. And, you know, he. He had recorded this poetry about an hour's worth on a birthday.

[Billy Corgan]

Right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, it's the last birthday and God bless.

[Billy Corgan]

Right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. And he, He. He had planned on. On having music with it, but he wanted what do you call, kind of free jazz? No, not. Not jazz at all, but more like classical.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

Have you ever heard of Fred Myro?

[Billy Corgan]

No.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, he was. I think he's still around. He was the guy that. That Jim wanted to.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay to.

[Robbie Krieger]

And I. I don't even know if he ever got around to. To doing any of it. But that never happened. And luckily Jim had put the poetry down on tape. And about 10 years later, John Haney, who was the engineer who did that, I ran into him and I said, hey, whatever happened with that poetry thing? And. And so he played it for me.

[Billy Corgan]

So you didn't even know it existed? Oh, okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

I knew it. I knew it existed, but I didn't know what the hell was going on with it, you know, I don't know why we never asked about it before. But anyway, so he plays it for me and I just said, wow, we could. We could put music to this and it would be cool.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And really came out as. It's really one of my favorite Doors albums.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really? We still. We actually play some of the songs from it today.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, wow.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. You probably don't know this, but when you guys put out the box set around 2000 or so, remember you did that?

[Robbie Krieger]

Which one?

[Billy Corgan]

It was like a 4 CD box set.

[Robbie Krieger]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

I can't remember what it was called. The Door's Unlocked or something. Anyway, I knew Ray a little bit, so I sent Rhea a message because I loved the box set. And what I loved about it was it wasn't just, here's the best songs and a couple unreleased tracks. It was like a live cut. Jim doing poetry live, you guys jamming, rehearsal tape, then.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

It was a really interesting. And what I wrote Ray, in the note was I was like, I love that. As a Doors fan, I thought I knew the band. But when I listen to this now, I understand how you guys see the band. Does it make sense to you, the way I'm saying it to you?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

It's like this is the band you were actually in. Not my version of the band. As a fan, this is how the Doors saw the Doors.

[Robbie Krieger]

Wait a minute. What year did that?

[Billy Corgan]

About 2,000, I feel. Somewhere around there.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, I gotta check that.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, it was a box set. So it was really beautifully done. And I don't know who curated it. I'm sure you guys had a lot to do with it, but it felt very personal, and I was struck by it because I was the guy who'd buy every box set that would come out, whether it was Motown or whatever. I just love unreleased tracks. And I'm just one of those guys, collector type. Right. So after I sent Ray the note, he wanted to talk to me. And so we sat on the phone for, like, an hour and just talked about his version of the Doors from inside. You know, he kind of gave me that insight of, like, the way you guys saw the band. And it was such a gift to hear him explain it, because, like I said, when you're in the band, it's different. Fans decide what version of the band they want to believe in. But when you're in the band, you have your own version of the band. And I hear that, especially with you guys, because you have such a strong musical identity.

[Robbie Krieger]

Too bad he didn't record that conversation, right?

[Billy Corgan]

It would be nice. It would be nice. He was quite nice to me as a fellow Chicagoan, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, right.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Okay. So I guess the whole thing, American Prayer came out in 1978, and I think the Danny Sugarman book came out, what, 81. Somewhere around there. No One Here Gets Out Alive is the infamous book. So somewhere in there. Because I bought that book when it came out, and I read it. So imagine I'm 14 years old and I'm reading, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

You're 14 at the time.

[Billy Corgan]

At the time, yeah. And I read it cover to cover multiple times. And that's because of that book. That's why I started reading Kerouac and Jean Paul Sartre and all this. Huxley and William Burroughs and.

[Robbie Krieger]

Cool.

[Billy Corgan]

So that part of your history, Jim's interest in those writers. And then, of course, you know, the musical influences, the Doors, that set me off on this kind of very particular path, which had a lot of influence on me. So thank you for that.

[Robbie Krieger]

So how old are you?

[Billy Corgan]

14, 15 years old. I mean, not many kids at 14 years old are reading Kierkegaard and. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, God bless. Right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So that's always been my personal affinity for Jim. I certainly love Jim as a singer and a frontman. I didn't ever see you guys live that way, but on video. But my real connection with him is he introduced me to something very personal. Okay, that's cool. Right? So somewhere in there, 78 81. Somewhere in there now, here comes. Let's call it doors 2.0, the myth, the Lizard King. You know what I mean? And you talk in your book. Great book, by the way. You talk in your book. Very. As you are here, very plain spoken about. You know, I know this thing's going on. It wasn't quite the Doors that I was in, but. Okay. You know, it's not a bad thing. People are interested in us.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

Did that. That resurgence of interest in. In your work, was that surprising, or did you feel it coming, like.

[Robbie Krieger]

No, I mean, I. You know, after we broke up, you know, in Europe, I thought, that's it. Nobody will ever care about the Doors anymore. Nobody gives it. And I was. You know, and because of the book, Danny's book, that's. That was, I think, an impetus to the movie.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Robbie Krieger]

And the movie really is what revamped the interest in the Doors. But you remember, even I hate to admit it.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. But that's. No, but I guess I would say there's no shame in that game because here I am at 14 and I'm caring about the Doors in a way that goes beyond Light My Fire and Break On Through. Right. I'm suddenly.

[Robbie Krieger]

Did you see the movie?

[Billy Corgan]

I did. I did. I even got to know Val Kilmer a little bit somewhere around that era. I knew that. Let's. I don't. I don't know how to put it in a way that's not any more Chicago than I knew that part of the movie was just movie making. But if at the end of the day, it turns a whole generation on to want to listen to how good you guys. Great you guys are. Were. I don't see that.

[Robbie Krieger]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

Because you guys are. Great band. You're one of the only bands I could say where I can listen every record. And every record really has something for me as a fan. And I'm not talking about a couple songs. Like, I like every record. I do, honestly.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, thanks.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Huge influence on my work. So in. In many ways, obviously, not just the literature, just this. The sense that a band can create a mistake that's very personal. If I would point to anything that you guys had a huge influence on me. It's like you can build your own world. And the Doors did that. Because the Doors sound like the Doors. It's like. And. And if you try to cover Door songs, and I've covered Door songs, you can't quite get the same vibe. It's like the spooky mystery little bit Kurt Vile and You know, mixed with Chicago Blues.

[Robbie Krieger]

And there's so many Doors cover bands, you know.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Robbie Krieger]

And, yeah, you're. You're right. None of them really.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Because it's the way your musical language is so particular. And, you know, if we were to, if we were to design the Doors on paper, you'd say, there's no way this band's gonna sell any records.

[Robbie Krieger]

You did some Door songs.

[Billy Corgan]

You're jumping to my end. We'll get there. So, okay, here's Robbie Krieger in 1982 or whatever. The Doors mythology starts to take off. You know what I mean? You know, obviously things start to change now. I think it was John who talks in his book. Maybe I could be wrong, because I've read all your books, but this idea that Ray starts to really lean into Jim the shaman. And there was that great. I don't know if you ever saw it. There was a great Onion headline once where it said, ray Manzarek goes for five minutes without calling Jim a shaman. You ever see that? It's hysterical. And they had fake quotes from Ray saying, you know, I just forgot to call him a shaman for a couple minutes, you know. But I remember listening to Ray doing interviews in the 80s, and he was like, you know, Jim's a shaman and a mystic, and. Yeah, I didn't know what a shaman was, you know, But I'm saying. And you talk about it in your book, but what was your perspective on all that? Were you kind of cool with it? Did you think it was a bit cheesy or you, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

You know, I, I, I thought it was a bit cheesy, but I didn't. I couldn't blame Ray because it really. It was his whole life, you know, he's the one that discovered Jim. He's the one that, you know, started the Doors, really. And he wanted to keep it going, you know, when Jim died, it was the end of the world for, for him. Yeah. And he, so he, he was really just trying to keep it all going.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And I, I can't blame him because, you know, he, he, like you say the Doors are so different, and he, he wanted people to know.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

You know, especially young people.

[Billy Corgan]

What I loved about your book is you talk about, like, Jim hanging out in your kitchen talking to your parents is so beautiful to me, because, again, that's the Jim you knew. You know, not the lizard king and the leather pants, but, like, this, this young guy, obviously very intelligent.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

But the personal aspect of you talking about, like, your father's influence in helping the band. And there's something really beautiful about that. Yeah, can you just talk about that a little bit? Because obviously I had the benefit of reading the book.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, you know, Jim didn't really have his parents in his life. I, I think it was because he, he didn't want to embarrass them, you.

[Billy Corgan]

Know, because his dad was like an admiral.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, dad was a real military, straight, straight up guy. And his mom was kind of weird too. But so I think he kind of, you know, I was lucky. I had the, the, the nice upbringing, you know, family type thing without having to please my, my parents that much. You know, when I became interested in, in music, they were, they were just happy that I was interested in anything, you know, something. So, you know, most, a lot of parents would have said, oh, that's not good. You're going to get into drugs. And.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And they were right.

[Billy Corgan]

But sorry just to steer you back because I'm so. I think this is the sweetest part of the story. It's like, you know, you guys, early 20s, literally hanging out in the Krieger kitchen.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

There's no Doors, there's no mystique, you know, or if there is a Doors, it's. It's just another band amongst a thousand bands out here at the time.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right. But, you know, Jim was, he was, you know, I think being brought up in the South, I think he was, he was very polite and very, you know, just. That's how he was brought up.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And my parents really liked him a lot and, and he, and he liked hanging around my house because it was, it was something he didn't have.

[Billy Corgan]

When's the first time in your mind that you saw that Jim had this other ability or, you know what I'm saying? It's like he wasn't just another guy who could sing or something. You know, I mean like the first time you found yourself going, oh, this guy's really got an interesting gear here.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, it was even. It was before I met him, you know. You know, John had gotten into the group by this time and he, he would tell me about him.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

How the, how that he came up with a name and all this stuff and, and the first six or eight songs that they, they came up with were great lyrics, you know, stuff that I never heard.

[Billy Corgan]

So you heard about the sky before you kind of.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah. And the fact that they had a record deal with Columbia Records.

[Billy Corgan]

Ah. You know, is that where there's some of those early demos are from that like they did Some kind of demo or.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, there was demo. That was before that. And that's. That's how they got the deal. Columbia, I think.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, that was before Columbia. See, at that time, Ray was buddies with this guy Dick. Dick Bach.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

You ever heard that name?

[Billy Corgan]

Doesn't ring a bell.

[Robbie Krieger]

He had a label called World Pacific.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, that was the Birds were originally. Or Chris Hillman.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really.

[Billy Corgan]

Chris Hillman before the Birds was signed to World Pacific.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh.

[Billy Corgan]

Which is how the Door. Sorry, not the Birds, different band. The Birds end up doing all their early demos there with World Pacific.

[Robbie Krieger]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

That's kind of the. So he was kind of this weird Ravi Shanker, right? World Pacific.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Yeah. World Pacific did all. All the Indian stuff.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And that's. So that's why Ray loved that kind of stuff. So he became friends with Stick Bach, and so they got to record at World Pacific. Okay, that was the Doors demo before I was in the band. And it was. It was pretty cool. They had. They had this girl bass player, not Carol K, who claims that she did it.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. Well, I knew somebody was a session bassist back in the 60s. And he would argue. He would get. Tell me that he was still mad at Carol because Carol was taking credit for songs that he played on.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Like who's that?

[Billy Corgan]

His name was Mark Tool and he played with the Electric Prunes. But he ended up after the Prunes.

[Robbie Krieger]

Blew up because the Prunes, my buddy.

[Billy Corgan]

Played with them because Billy Wolf, Dave Haiser, I think his name. He was a Dave Hasinger or something. He had produced the. Some of the Stone stuff.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right?

[Billy Corgan]

Well, he did one of those deals with the Prunes. He signed them out of a garage when they were 17. They weren't even old enough to sign the contract. They had to get their parents to sign off on it. But when he signed him, he signed them to his production company. So at some point he replaced all the Electric Prunes with a completely different band because they wouldn't do what he wanted to do. So by 18 or 19, he's out of a band that's already had hit songs and his band trundles on with other people. It was some crazy situation.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

But he went on to do. Be a session guy. He was like, kind of part of that. Like the later version of the Wrecking Crew guys.

[Robbie Krieger]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

And he would do Sinatra sessions and all this stuff, and he would get mad and he'd say, carol's taking credit for songs I played on that were hits.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, for some reason, she told people that she played bass On Light My Fire, which I know she didn't, because you were there. It was.

[Billy Corgan]

And you wrote it.

[Robbie Krieger]

It was a guy called Larry Nel.

[Billy Corgan]

Who was part of the Wrecking Crew.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right, right, right. Maybe she thought she did, because, you know, she.

[Billy Corgan]

Not a bad thing to take credit for.

[Robbie Krieger]

She played on a lot of. A lot of stuff in those days.

[Billy Corgan]

So this band kind of comes together and I'm struck because, you know, I'm. I'm an obsessive type of person. So there's some very early clips of you guys on television, probably when the album first comes out. Jim's kind of wearing stripey pants. He doesn't quite look like Lizard King Jim yet. And then there's clips from you guys, like, six months later where it's like you guys almost look like a completely different band. So I'm kind of curious about that period of time, because if I see those early clips of you guys kind of look like a nerdy band from the Valley trying to be a bit psychedelic, and six months later, you look like the Doors that everybody knows, you know?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, well, things move fast.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, well, that's what you were in this incredible environment, the Sunset Strip, and everybody's doing house shows and. Yeah, because you guys. There was some club you were kind of a resident band at for a while, right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, the London Fog.

[Billy Corgan]

Right, London Fog. You were playing how many nights a week? Type thing?

[Robbie Krieger]

Every night, pretty much.

[Billy Corgan]

Really?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

And how many sets?

[Robbie Krieger]

At least two, maybe more.

[Billy Corgan]

And that's where some of the jams were born, because you're just filling time and.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, exactly. And then we. From there, we moved to the Whiskey. Right, and did the same thing there, pretty much.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And. And then we. We would go to New York and played at this club called Ondines.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And there we would play four sets a night.

[Billy Corgan]

Was Ondine clicked, Connected to the Velvet Underground world. Am I crazy about that?

[Robbie Krieger]

Not so much. Not so much. They kind of specialized in having bands from LA and California come out.

[Billy Corgan]

You might be a funny memory. One night I was driving down the Sunset Strip, and we were driving past the Whiskey, and I've played there a few times, and I said to the person I was driving with, stop. And they said, why? And I said, I have to go in there. I just had this strong feeling. So I jumped out of the car and the person went to park the car. The doorman recognized me, said, come on in. And it was a Doors tribute band. Right. And I walk in, and as I. Literally, as I walk in, the band's starting to play. The end. It was the strangest thing. It was like God pushed me out of the car and said. So I got to have this weird. Obviously it wasn't you guys, but they did.

[Robbie Krieger]

When was this?

[Billy Corgan]

20 years ago. It's just a weird, like, get out of the car, go in the club and the band and, you know, the guys dressed like Jim and doing the voice. And I got as close as I would ever get to seeing you guys play like that. It's a funny, funny story. We don't have to belabor the whole. Because, you know, like. Like the Doors mythology, the 60s, Sunset Strip mythology has been way over. Overblown, too. But I'm curious, from a musician point of view, what were some of the bands that you liked at the time that were playing around town?

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, I like, love Arthur Lee and.

[Billy Corgan]

Love Super Talented Guy.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

And they were. They were on Electra too, right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah. They were on Electra before us.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And they were. They helped us get on Electric.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

That's cool.

[Robbie Krieger]

Buffalo Springfield.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

We played a lot of gigs with them.

[Billy Corgan]

Did you ever think they would turn out to what they turned out to later? You know, I mean, they went on to have this other crazy success. Did you see it then or. No.

[Robbie Krieger]

Were they just another good band? I thought. I thought they would be big. Yeah. And we did a lot of stuff with the Airplane. You know, when we go to San Francisco, we'd play with them a lot. And the Dead and all those guys.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And who's the guy who was kind of blind?

[Billy Corgan]

San Francisco guy?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Was he a blues guy?

[Robbie Krieger]

No, it was kind of. It was rock.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

But Steppenwolf.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, he's blind.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I didn't know that.

[Robbie Krieger]

Not totally, but he couldn't. Kind of like Edgar Winter.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I didn't know that. Grace Slick talks in her book about sleeping with Jim at some point.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

I don't know if you know that. She goes. She goes in a lot of detail. Let's just put it that way.

[Robbie Krieger]

Wow. I never read that. Gotta check that out.

[Billy Corgan]

There's some story I heard, and you can confirm it or not, but, like, when you guys did break on through, there's like 140 takes. Or is that. Is there. Is that one of those mythological concepts?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. I don't know how many takes, but it was nowhere near one for. You know, that was the first album.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

And one of the first songs we did. So I'd say we'd be Lucky to do three takes.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. And this is live vocals or would you do an over Overdub vocals?

[Robbie Krieger]

Probably overdub vocals.

[Billy Corgan]

But Jim.

[Robbie Krieger]

With us and. Yeah, and then if, if, if it was good enough, he'd keep it.

[Billy Corgan]

But on later work, he. There's a lot of stuff where he would sing live, like LA Woman Times or. There was the overdubs too.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, a lot on la. A lot of it. On the third album, Five to One was live vocal.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Great vocal.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

We tried to cover that, by the way too.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

We never could quite nail it.

[Robbie Krieger]

You have to sound like you're drunk.

[Billy Corgan]

I can't drink. I'm allergic to alcohol. So maybe that's the problem.

[Robbie Krieger]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, yeah. I just can't drink. And, And I have children, so I always. My joke is always I wish I could drink because I have children. I have young children. That's the other part. As I said before, you guys are one of those unique bands where I can't imagine the band without one of you. There's only a few bands where it's like the Beatles come to mind. Led Zeppelin comes to mind where it's like without one of you, I wouldn't be into the band. It's the communication between the four of you. Like Jimmy Chamberlain, the drummer for the Pumpkins, we were talking one time about John's drumming and I think we were trying to get a certain feeling and I said, can you get a little bit more of that Doris feeling? And he said, well, if you listen to John's hi hat, he's always swinging the hi hat. Even when he's playing in four. Four, there's almost always a little bit of a shuffle in the hi hat, you know. So even when John's playing a straight beat, this is from Pumpkin's Brain, but there's a little bit of swing in there, you know, You. You mostly played finger picking, right? Am I crazy here?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I always finger.

[Billy Corgan]

And I know you guys would use basis on the records, but I love listening to you guys live because there's something about the. The rhythmic interplay between raised left and right hands.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, I mean, there was a number of the songs on the first and second album were just rape playing piano base.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. Would. Would a lot of those songs be written and kind of come out of jams? Or would you guys work as a four piece? Or you guys work as a three piece a lot? And then Jim would come in and we say, we got this.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, all different kinds of ways, you know, But Usually. I mean, the first. Those first songs on the Doris demo, those were. Those songs were. Just Came into Jim's mind. He could hear them, like, you know. Yeah. There it was like, would you sing melodies?

[Billy Corgan]

And you guys would try to.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Interesting.

[Robbie Krieger]

I mean. Well, I wasn't in the band yet.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, right, right. Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

So that's. So we ended up redoing most of those songs.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Because, you know, I hate to say it, but I'm. When I was at it, it really helped.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

The. The song.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, he loved your blues. Ish. Kind of. That was. Is that myth or is that reality?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, but I mean, you know, Race was blues to the hill. You know, he grew up in Chicago and all that. I was. I was more. You know, I love blues, but, you know, I liked Indian music.

[Billy Corgan]

When I say that, it's guitar player talk. But when I. Sorry. It's. I should have been more articulate. But the way you play blues is only your way of playing the blues. But I. I registered as blues. But it's like you're. It's like if I listen to Albert King, he plays a particular way. When you play blues, you play a very particular way. So it didn't come out of my mouth. Right. But it's like. That's what I mean. He loved the way you played the blues.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Better way to.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, exactly.

[Billy Corgan]

Especially slide and kind of the atmospheric type of stuff.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, Slide, especially.

[Billy Corgan]

What would be like a sneaky guitar influence of yours that we wouldn't necessarily hear. Does that make sense? Like somebody that. If you said, I really like this guy. Yeah, it's playing, but you wouldn't necessarily hear it in my playing. Every guitar player's got that sneaky influence, right?

[Robbie Krieger]

I guess so. I mean, you know, I liked Bloomfield a lot.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. My dad saw Bloomfield play once. That blew his mind. He saw him at Aragon Ballroom in, you know, somewhere in the 60s. Said Bloomfield came out with a little amp, put it on the chair, and he said he couldn't believe what this guy was getting out of the am.

[Robbie Krieger]

The Aragon Bone.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. I think back then it was called the Electric Playground or one of those 60s names, you know.

[Robbie Krieger]

Where is that?

[Billy Corgan]

Aragon Ballroom? Yeah, it's north of Chicago. It was an old dance ballroom that turned into a rock venue. I'm not sure you guys ever played there. I remember whenever I saw you guys listed in Chicago type stuff, it was always like, Universal Amphitheater. If you remember, that venue was a total hole.

[Robbie Krieger]

But I'm trying to remember who I saw at the Aragon Ballroom.

[Billy Corgan]

Here's a good one I have on my list.

[Robbie Krieger]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

Drugs versus spirituality. I don't know what that means other than sounds good.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, I think, you know, when we. In the 60s, drugs were spirituality.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

You know, that's what we use them for.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. So was it more of an LSD band? A weed band, you said. I mean, like. Like we were more of an LSD band.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Well, by the time I got in the band, it was. It was on the tail end of lsd.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

And so when I was doing acid, it was before the Doors. And that's. That's kind of how I met John was. We had this, this friend at. We both went to the high school, west la. And we used to kind of. We used to get LSD like every weekend.

[Billy Corgan]

Is this when it was legal? Remember? It was legal up until a certain point?

[Robbie Krieger]

I guess so, yeah, I think it was. And. And then we would get morning glory seeds.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

That was legal. And peyote.

[Billy Corgan]

But this is all pre Doors.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, pretty much. And then, you know, I was still doing it once in a while. Yeah. And I. I did do it with Jim a number of times for shows.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, I've had that experience as well. It's always interesting. It's like, what key am I in?

[Robbie Krieger]

I remember this one show we did in. In Tucson, I think, or Phoenix. And it was in this weird place. It was like that ceiling came down like that. It was a horrible sound.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And they had this, this guy that played second act was an Elvis impersonator.

[Billy Corgan]

And you guys are on lsd.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh my God.

[Robbie Krieger]

It was weird.

[Billy Corgan]

Is it amazing when you take lsd? Like that's when the Elvis impersonators. It's like the timing is.

[Robbie Krieger]

And then. And, and right, right around the first show we did. First show we did was raise Dad's company party. He. He worked for Hughes Aircraft.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

And Ray got. Got. Did too much acid or something. He. He was wasted. He couldn't. Didn't know what he was doing.

[Billy Corgan]

And this is the first gig.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Yeah. And. And so that. That's when Ray quit acid pretty much.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

And you know, Jim would still do it and I would still do it, but, you know, it was kind of going on out. Going out. I. I wish you. It would have stuck around longer so. Would have avoided liquor.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Because, you know, Jim was. Was. Was a drunk in, in high school.

[Billy Corgan]

I didn't know that.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. And. And college. And he quit by using acid.

[Billy Corgan]

And you know, and then it came back.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Unfortunately, you know, acid Was acid. Showed him that that liquor was bad, I think showed me that, sure. And. But didn't. Didn't last too long for him.

[Billy Corgan]

Mark Tooling, the gentleman I told you about that I was friends with from the Electric Prunes, he said at one point they did one of those like week long tours with you, you know, up and down the coast or something. And so, you know, like any fanboy, I was like, what was Jim like live? You know, you were there because of course I can only see on, on YouTube or something. Right. And he said it was the strangest thing to him and he was a little bit younger than you guys and he said Jim was. He. He found Jim kind of strange backstage and a bit off putting and not very friendly. But he said so he said like you can in a band, if you feel like the guy in the other band isn't interested in you or nice to you, you know, you have a hard time watching their band. It's like, it's just. It's a band problem, you know what I mean? Even if you like their music, it's not like, well, that's the guy that just wouldn't say hello to me backstage, you know. And he said he would go out and watch you guys every night. And he said somehow Jim on stage would transform almost into a completely different person. And it was shocking to him because he had trouble putting the guy backstage together with the guy that he was watching on stage. And he said even one night he took acid and somehow there was a. You guys were playing like a stage and there was an understage. So him and two girls took acid and like laid on the stage and watched you guys from like, like this perspective. And he said it was pretty mind blowing because he said Jim would blossom into this other performer on stage, but he couldn't put it together with the guy backstage. I mean, obviously you knew the, the guy, you know, the guy who ate hamburgers. Jim. You know what I mean? But did you. Did you. And I'm not talking about the mythology, I'm talking about you as somebody in the band with your bandmate. Did you see that or did you just.

[Robbie Krieger]

Not really. No. I mean, to me he was the same guy on stage.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Right.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I. I don't know when Jim would get super provocative with crowds. There's some stuff, some of that stuff available. I'm not saying it's a, it's a good cross section, but in my band, when I would get super provocative on stage, they would get really mad at me in my Band, we call it the Art Breakdown. And they would get mad when I would do the Art Breakdown. I would say something about the government or God or MTV or whatever, and my band would get super uncomfortable and get. Yell at me after the show when Jim would kind of go off in these verbal flights of fancy. Not poetry. Like, he was obviously being provocative.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, but that, you know, that didn't happen that often. You know, I think the only time really was in Miami when he was just. I don't know what he was.

[Billy Corgan]

That's the famous night with the goat and the sheep are. Oh, see, right on cue.

[Robbie Krieger]

Must have been a combination of drugs or whatever that night. And he just started ranting and raving to this crowd. I. I've never heard him do that before.

[Billy Corgan]

Really? No, it was kind of. That was a one off kind of experience.

[Robbie Krieger]

It was.

[Billy Corgan]

Are you guys looking at each other like, what the hell is happening?

[Robbie Krieger]

Or I mean, you know, we, we knew he was capable of stuff like that, so it didn't surprise us. But you know, when, when he started saying he was going to take off the pants, then that's. Luckily that didn't really happen.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, but that caused you guys a ton of problems, right? I mean, honestly, I.

[Robbie Krieger]

It did.

[Billy Corgan]

I don't want to talk about it because I, I find when stories are. When there's so much talk about it, it's like, what can we say that hasn't already been said? Yeah. So I'm not trying to dive into that, but it is interesting in a way.

[Robbie Krieger]

It was, it was a good thing because, you know, because of. Of what happened there, we were put on the no higher list, you know.

[Billy Corgan]

Right. And so like, no promoters would hire you.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right, Exactly. So because of that, we ended up recording a lot.

[Billy Corgan]

Ah. And you know, is that the. Is that LA Woman times or.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, the one two before that, actually.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. Wow.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. In fact, all three of those last.

[Billy Corgan]

Three albums, Soft Parade, Morrison Hotel and Ellie Woman.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right. Those were all done pretty quick because we had nothing else.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

We could do.

[Billy Corgan]

Towards the end. Musically, it certainly gets less kind of spooky and a little bit more bluesy. It the. The general word on the street. Maybe I've just read too much about the Doors, but it's like the gym was really pushing more blues. Is that true or would you. Do you guys all go there together?

[Robbie Krieger]

That was true. For some reason, he just really was going blues on us, you know, and we all love the blues, so it was not a problem.

[Billy Corgan]

And you had great Blues songs. I mean.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, and even some of the covers were like, they're. They're legendary parts of your catalog. So it's not like it was a flight of fancy.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right. I mean, we. We love blues and. But we didn't want to be a blues band especially.

[Billy Corgan]

What do you think you guys would have gotten into musically if it hadn't sort of trended towards the blues there at the end?

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, I definitely think it would have gone a lot into the blues because that's where Jim wanted to go. But, you know, if you listen to those last two albums without Jim.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

You can tell kind of.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, I have to go back and listen from that perspective.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

That's interesting.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

When a band makes a commitment to a certain path and you guys, whatever you committed to at the end, let's call it, you got more bluesy. Right. If that's fair. I'm making my own thing. I want you to correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's fascinating when great bands commit to a certain lane, they're able to create songs that somehow rise above the idiom. So LA Woman is bluesy, but somehow it's. Only the Doors could do that. Does it make sense, what I'm after?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know what you're saying.

[Billy Corgan]

There's a signature moment that's.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. I mean, every blues song we ever did was not just a blues.

[Billy Corgan]

That's what I'm after.

[Robbie Krieger]

It was.

[Billy Corgan]

That's. That's such a testament to your guys's ability.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Because, you know, we all work in idiomatic. You know, we're doing the raga here, we're doing the blues thing here. You know, at some point you've got to rise above and write a song as that's worthy of your. Of your rep. Right. Otherwise you just sound like everybody else.

[Robbie Krieger]

Sure.

[Billy Corgan]

So.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yep. And LA Woman album, there was probably more blues on that than any other album.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. We're bringing it to the. The gentle ending here. And we'll get to my. My. My Doris cover. So 80s. Here comes the mythology of the Doors. Right. You know, there's a lot of energy around you guys. Was your guys relationship good at that point or did you have to kind of reevaluate your relationships in light of this renewed interest in the band between.

[Robbie Krieger]

Ray and John and I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say a little bit.

[Billy Corgan]

Like you guys got hot again. And. And then there was the. The. The Apocalypse now, which was that incredible use of the end in the. In the scene. With the bombs going. I mean, it's like. Talk about a movie. Immortality.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Love that.

[Billy Corgan]

It's beautiful. I mean.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, I remember when I. When that came out, I went. I went to see it at the Cinerama Dome, sat in the first row, and the first thing you hear is my guitar with the helicopters going by.

[Billy Corgan]

And here's how crazy that is. I can remember the first time I saw that. I was in somebody's basement and they had, I don't know, VHS or something, and they said, do you want to watch this movie? And I thought, I don't really want to watch this movie. And they put it on anyway. And that scene comes on and it's like. It's a moment frozen in my mind because it was such the perfect use of music with film. It's like Seal. Like, it's the ultimate music video, you know, it's almost like you guys wrote the song for the film, but it's not. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's jealousy that I'm expressing. So. Okay, just real quick. We don't have to get too deep on it, but what was the relationship like in the 80s? You know, you're 20 years or so past, you know, whatever it was. I don't do math. But now you got. You have to kind of reevaluate your relationship in light of this new information. There's suddenly a bunch of kids like me in basements. Want to listen to your band? Well, okay, here's an easy one. Who ran the business at that point? We collected a business. Or was there one band member that was sort of more business person?

[Robbie Krieger]

That's a good question. That's a good question.

[Billy Corgan]

Because somebody's got to approve the T shirts and the. You know, the. Yeah, the new wave.

[Robbie Krieger]

Well, we still had Bill Siddons.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

Who was doing that kind of stuff. And I would say John was totally out of the doors. No interest in really anything until his book came out. He. He did some, you know, a lot of signings and. And he had his book being used for the movie.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

And he. In fact, he. He is in the movie, if you remember. He. He's in the first scene of the movie. He. He plays the. He plays John Haney, who was the engineer when Jim was doing his poetry.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Robbie Krieger]

Remember that scene?

[Billy Corgan]

I do remember the scene. I don't remember John.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, John was at the microphone. So, you know, other than that, John really had no interest in playing or doing anything.

[Billy Corgan]

Did you guys talk about getting back together or.

[Robbie Krieger]

No, not really. Not until 1990, I guess it was. There was a. It was a show where VH1 Storytellers was 1999.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

All right. So that. That was the first time that we all got back together and played.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. You don't remember, but you guys called me once in a studio to ask me to be involved in that.

[Robbie Krieger]

Oh, and you didn't do it.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, hope you don't get mad at me all over again. But they called me and said, you know, would you like to do this thing where the Doors are going to play the old songs and you'll be one of the singers? And I was very honored that you guys called. And I said, I would love to do it, but I want to write a new song with them. And you and John called me on the phone in the studio. I was at Village Recorder here in Los Angeles, and we had about a 20 minute conversation where I tried to convince you guys to do a new song with me and you guys said no. So I didn't end up doing it, and I kind of regret it because I would have loved to play with you guys. But I got it in my head as, you know, pigheaded artists, I got it in my mind, I want to write a new song with you guys. I think what it was is ultimately was an insecurity because I thought, I can't do Jim better than Jim. And I didn't want to try to do that.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Billy Corgan]

You know what I mean? So I thought if I could write something with you guys, we could sort of make some new music together. Because if you really think about it, it's how much respect I have for you guys as musicians, because I just know you guys. Like, I guess what I wanted to say and say to you now is I know if I threw you guys in the deep end of the pool, you guys would deliver. Because I know how good you guys are. Because I was such a fan. I knew all of it, so. But you guys were on that trajectory. It's like there was a lot of interest. It's the movie and somebody record label in the whole thing. So it wasn't my business to get involved in, but that's. That was my.

[Robbie Krieger]

That was after the movie.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Anyway, that. That was a pretty good album. Really?

[Billy Corgan]

You happy with it?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I need to go back and listen to it.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. I mean, some of it wasn't that great, but. Well, some of them were better than others.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Like the guy that did the end, what was his name? Marco.

[Billy Corgan]

We just need Marco Here the whole.

[Robbie Krieger]

Time for reference, anyway. Yeah, but that was pretty good.

[Billy Corgan]

As long as you felt good about the whole thing. And then you guys went to this whole period where you started touring again, right?

[Robbie Krieger]

Ray and I did Travis from Days of the New. Remember that?

[Billy Corgan]

I remember the name of the band. Yeah.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. He was pretty. He was good. He. We did it in three, four instead of four.

[Billy Corgan]

Really?

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

I need to go and check that.

[Robbie Krieger]

See that, that, that was.

[Billy Corgan]

I didn't really listen to it when it came out because I still was hurt that I didn't get to work with. Yeah, but again, I blame that on me, not on you.

[Robbie Krieger]

I don't know.

[Billy Corgan]

I know we talked briefly about you being married to your wife since 1972, but as you know, like, having a partner with you through this whole journey must be an incredible thing for both of you. Right? I mean, am I projecting? But. Seems pretty self evident that she was there with you through all this. Incredible.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes I think she doesn't really appreciate it, but.

[Billy Corgan]

But which part doesn't you think she appreciates?

[Robbie Krieger]

The parts up and the parts after we got married.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, God bless her.

[Robbie Krieger]

I'm kidding.

[Billy Corgan]

God bless her. Okay, let's. Here's. Here's a place to end. So in 1988, when my. My band really started and I was just starting to learn how to really write songs, I wrote songs. Okay. But there was. And I remember it at a practice saying, I wish we could get the Doors vibe, that spooky vibe. Because I didn't know how to write like that. Like. Like when Ray would write those weird. Maybe you wrote them, but those weird kind of passing chords, you know, this kind of Kurt Weil, Bertolt Brecht. I don't know who was writing those chords. It was probably you, for all I know. But we.

[Robbie Krieger]

Songs.

[Billy Corgan]

Crystal Ship was the song Crystal Ship, you know, it starts like C sharp minor before you slip into beautiful chords like, you know, almost like Bach modal. I always assumed it was Ray.

[Robbie Krieger]

That was Ray.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Because I. I assume because it has a Bachish kind of thing. So I thought a nice place to end is so. So literally my earliest gigs with the band and maybe even from the first gig on, we were doing Crystal Ship. Yeah. Because it captured something that I wanted for my band that I didn't know how to do. So bringing you guys into it was a way of me saying, I want to understand what this is because it's so beautiful to me when I listen. So evocative. So I wanted to stop here because it's really a tribute to you guys.

[Robbie Krieger]

So you tried to write a song like Crystal Ship.

[Billy Corgan]

I think I've tried to write 20 songs like Crystal Ship.

[Robbie Krieger]

Which one came the closest?

[Billy Corgan]

That's a good question. I'd have to think about that. But we certainly. We did a lot of stuff that was sort of modal because of the end. This idea of kind of jamming an open dish. But we, in our case, we, you know, we blow them through Marshalls at full volume. And that was part of what we. We learned how to do.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So there's a lot of doors in the pumpkins DNA. But I wanted to stop here because it, It. It struck me because obviously I knew we were going to talk about Jim in this whole journey you're on. And I think it's such a beautiful thing because you think about, like, even when you said when. When. When you heard that Jim was gone, you weren't even sure he was really gone. And of course, we've heard the. The 8,000 rumors and, you know, the National Enquirer version.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

And, you know, in our generation, we lost, of course, many people, Kurt Cobain being among them. You know, that what they horribly call the 27 Club. You know, it's like, for some reason, 27 seems to be the age. Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin. But, you know, there's something about certain artists. They burn so bright, you know, that when they're gone, you still feel. Spend a lot of time sort of trying to figure out what they were really saying or what they meant. And I'm sure you've had those moments where you kind of realized that there were things there that you didn't see at the time. And you were standing right there.

[Robbie Krieger]

Right. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So I thought it would be interesting because I, you know, literally from the first gigs of my band, I was singing these lyrics. So I think it's a nice way to bring our conversation before you slip into unconsciousness. I'd like to have another kiss Another flashing chance at bliss Another kiss, another kiss the days are bright and filled with pain Enclose me in your gentle reign the time you ran was too insane we'll meet again we'll meet again so I think the beautiful thing is in. In loss, whether it's family or generational, in your case, your bandmate, that once we get sort of far enough from the pain, we can certainly really appreciate, like, what they left us. And so in that case, I. I do appreciate him.

[Robbie Krieger]

Yeah. That's cool. Well, thanks, man.

[Billy Corgan]

Thank you. Thank you, Robbie. Appreciate it.