Sharon Osbourne | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

Podcast Summary: Sharon Osbourne | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Magnificent Others, host Billy Corgan engages in an in-depth conversation with Sharon Osbourne. Sharon, a renowned television personality and music manager, shares her extraordinary journey through the music industry, her personal struggles, and her impactful role in shaping rock and metal music as we know it today.

Early Life and Family Background

Sharon Osbourne begins by reflecting on her upbringing in post-war Britain. She recounts living near bomb sites well into her childhood, a backdrop that profoundly influenced her perspective on life and resilience.

Sharon Osbourne [01:05]: "We lived in a house that right behind was still bomb sites. Even when I left at 12, there was still bomb sites."

Her mother was a dancer and her grandmother a choreographer, immersing Sharon in the performing arts from a young age. This early exposure laid the foundation for her future endeavors in the entertainment industry.

Sharon Osbourne [05:27]: "If you could entertain, you'll never earn a living."

Managing Ozzy Osbourne and Black Sabbath

Sharon delves into her father's career as a music manager, highlighting his role in managing iconic artists like Gene Vincent and Black Sabbath. She describes her initial exposure to the rock scene through her father's office in Mayfair, London.

Sharon Osbourne [12:06]: "He was so charismatic... when he would walk into a room, you'd notice this because of the presence that he exuded."

Sharon recounts managing Ozzy Osbourne after his departure from Black Sabbath, detailing the challenges they faced in breaking Ozzy as a solo artist. Their partnership was not just professional but also deeply personal, ultimately leading to their marriage.

Sharon Osbourne [43:18]: "I have to go to the record company and say, Ozzy's going to be leaving Jack. You want to sign him directly. Which they did."

Music Industry Dynamics and Challenges

The conversation shifts to the gritty realities of the music industry in the 70s and 80s. Sharon discusses practices like chart manipulation and the pervasive influence of organized crime, which often dictated the success of artists.

Sharon Osbourne [19:22]: "There are no laws. They were pioneers. So lawyers, this, the other. Forget it."

Sharon also sheds light on her father's aggressive management style and the intense pressures artists like Ozzy faced, including public scrutiny and internal band conflicts.

Sharon Osbourne [38:44]: "And they were kids. Obviously, those bridges have been repaired and mended long ago."

Building Ozzfest

In response to the exclusion of Ozzy from major festivals like Lollapalooza, Sharon took a bold step by creating Ozzfest, a festival dedicated to heavy metal music. This move not only provided a platform for metal bands but also solidified Sharon's influence in the genre.

Sharon Osbourne [61:39]: "How disrespectful to say that. I was like, I'm gonna show you, you bastards. How dare you say that about an artist."

Ozzfest became a staple in the rock and metal community, fostering countless relationships and promoting the genre globally.

Transition into Television

Sharon discusses her unexpected foray into television with The Osbournes. Initially intended as a short-term engagement, the show became a cultural phenomenon, offering an unfiltered glimpse into her family's life. While it boosted Ozzy's popularity, Sharon expresses mixed feelings about the invasive nature of reality TV.

Sharon Osbourne [64:44]: "We were looking at it all as a family, the four of us. And it actually disturbed me. It disturbed me for my kids."

Personal Struggles and Mental Health

Opening up about her personal battles, Sharon addresses her long-term struggle with depression and her recent diagnosis of ADHD. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity and the challenges of maintaining mental health in the public eye.

Sharon Osbourne [79:36]: "I've had it for years. I was born with it. I've always had that, you know, put on a jolly face, showbiz face. And then, when everybody's gone, you're like this."

Sharon also touches on the impact of her father's Alzheimer's diagnosis, revealing the emotional toll it took on her and her family.

Reflections on the Music Industry

Throughout the conversation, Sharon offers critical insights into the current state of the music industry. She laments the shift from artist-driven creativity to profit-driven models, expressing frustration over the loss of genuine human connections in favor of commodification.

Sharon Osbourne [88:56]: "We're not cars. We're not cans of soup. It's human beings."

Sharon advocates for a more respectful and equitable industry that values artists beyond just their marketability.

Conclusion

Sharon Osbourne concludes by sharing her aspirations beyond the entertainment world—focused on being a loving grandmother and supporting her family. She underscores the importance of staying true to oneself amidst the relentless pressures of fame and industry expectations.

Sharon Osbourne [83:53]: "To be a good grandmother. Be wise for my grandkids. Teach them wise things. And take care of my hubby."

Sharon's candid revelations and profound reflections provide listeners with a deeper understanding of her multifaceted life, her unwavering dedication to her family, and her indelible impact on the music industry.

Notable Quotes

• "How disrespectful to say that." — Sharon Osbourne [61:39]
• "We are not cars. We are human beings." — Sharon Osbourne [88:56]
• "To be a good grandmother. Be wise for my grandkids." — Sharon Osbourne [83:53]

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich tapestry of Sharon Osbourne's experiences, blending personal anecdotes with industry insights. For anyone interested in the inner workings of rock royalty and the complexities of managing legendary artists, this conversation is both enlightening and inspiring.

Transcript

[Sharon Osbourne]

I'm not happy at the way the industry's run.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay. I love this part.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Never said this to anyone. He got offered to go and read for.

[Billy Morrison]

And you said no?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I said no.

[Billy Morrison]

What's your sort of first impression? Did you have an impression of him? The band put me in the room a little bit.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Well, it was packed, it was sweaty. When it's started out, I'm like, what the hell is this? I can remember my best friend who is an agent said to me, you can't let this go out. This is disgraceful. You cannot. You've got to stop it. And I'm like, oops, too late.

[Billy Morrison]

Too late. So I've read a lot of biographies about musicians that were born into post war Britain. This kind of, you know, there were still bomb sites and kids playing in homes that had been, you know, ripped out of the ground and stuff like that. Do you have memories like that? Is that. I'm. I guess I'm asking an atmospheric question about what you remember about post war Britain.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. In fact, the house where I grew up, I. We moved from there. So from 1 to 12, I lived in a house that at right behind was still bomb sites. Even when I left at 12, there was still bomb sites.

[Billy Morrison]

And what. What did people tell you, like, here in America, it was always the Great Depression. That's what you always heard about. You heard about World War II, but World War II didn't happen here.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Right.

[Billy Morrison]

It was about grandpa went overseas and then didn't want to talk about what he saw, that type of stuff. But of course, Europe lived in the site of the war. So what did that feel like? And what did people tell you about the war?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Everything was related to the war. There were even, I can remember as a child, there were gas masks hanging as you came into our house where you'd hang your coat. There were gas masks hanging still. Yeah. And there were air raid shelters at the bottom of our garden.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Did that leave an impression on you in any way? I'm just curious.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. Because we all. I mean, we all played on the bomb sites. It was right at the back of our house. There was a whole street that had gone.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And all the kids in the area. You know, it was the time where you did play in the streets.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And we would always be there. And too with my husband, he. He too played on bomb sites.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And it was just very much a part of our lives. It was, oh, you killed Jesus. You started World War II.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Because being a Jew, it was like you very much Got, ah.

[Billy Morrison]

I never thought about it that way. When I was a kid I heard that, you know, if you. We didn't have as many Jewish classmates where I grew up, but you know, the one kid that was. They'd say, you killed Jesus. We. No one even knew what it meant.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, but you used to say it.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I used to hear it and go, this guy Jesus.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, because I was thinking about it in knowing I was going to talk to you. Because obviously with Sabbath and Ozzy's music, you do feel that growing up in the horror of war. I mean, War Pigs is one of the great anti war songs of all time. You know, it's in the lyrics. And even, you know, the American and UK fascination with comic books and this idea of self empowerment, superheroes and fighting the Nazis and all this type of stuff. Captain America. But I thought, you know, it didn't strike me that it was part of your story that I know about, but I thought it must have affected you and it certainly affected your family very much.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And there was this guy called Mosley and he was a sir and he was a Nazi. And after the war he was still hanging around in England.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, wow. Was he a British subject though or not British, Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Very, very well spoken. Used to hang out with the Royal family. He's one of his bestest friends in the world. Was the king that abdicated.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And they ended up living near each other in France. So they were always buddy buddies. And he was a huge Nazi and used to give rallies everywhere in England. And my dad used to go. And there would be fights all the time because the Jewish people would go. They'd be.

[Billy Morrison]

This is pre war after. After too.

[Sharon Osbourne]

After. Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow. I don't know how anybody could defend that after, but.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Each time.

[Billy Morrison]

This always reminds me that that famous Monty Python skit where Hitler is Hilter.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes.

[Billy Morrison]

It's John Cleese and he's like. He's running for count local council. You know, there's. That's what he. Anyway, sorry.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, they're the best. I mean they're funniest.

[Billy Morrison]

I want to talk about your dad, but there's not a ton of information about your mother. And you know, again, it's. We're in this world of information. There's so much information readily, readily available. But if you want to dig deeper, it just goes into nothing.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

And so I found some pictures of your mother in sort of ballerina costumes and her being a ballerina and even some insinuation that you too, wanted to be a ballerina.

[Sharon Osbourne]

But I did. Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

But tell me, like, was your mother like a vaudevillian, as what we would say here?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Absolutely. And her mother was a choreographer.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And my mom was a dancer. So she would be in my grandmother's. Would get troops of girls and put them out on different circuits. Circuits.

[Billy Morrison]

Ah, yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And so my mom was a dancer. Her mother was a choreographer. Dancer. And my mom married a musical conductor.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And he was very well known, apparently. And the marriage didn't last. She had a son and a daughter with her first husband divorced. And in those times, nobody would get divorced. You were like, oh, yeah, you know, she must be a bad woman. And she met my father, who at this time was a singer.

[Billy Morrison]

Right. I have heard recordings of your father. I went out of my way. I never knew he sang. I mean, I certainly know his legacy in music, but not a bad voice.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, he had a good voice. And he. What did you hear? Sunrise, Sunset?

[Billy Morrison]

I heard that. I tried to find him. There was some insinuation that he kind of did like an Elvis imitation record, but I couldn't find that.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, no.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, he was very much like a crooner. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so they married. After six weeks, they got married.

[Billy Morrison]

Right. So it was kind of a love at first sight type of thing. So I'd rather ask you than sort of poke around with what I read, but tell me about your father's pre war life. Cause there's some sense that he too, was a bit of a vaudevillian comic acting. Can you illustrate that a little bit?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Okay. Before, he wanted to be a cantor, and he was brought up very religious, very religious Jew. And he trained, did all the training, and then just decided, no, I want to be an entertainer.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And so he used to do impressions and sing.

[Billy Morrison]

Right. The things I saw is that he did impressions of, like, Al Jolson.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes, he did. Yeah, he did, yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Did you think it's hard? Because obviously his legacy in music as a manager is what people talk about. But did you think he had talent himself as a performer?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, he did. And I can remember, like, as a baby, baby, after the war, my father would put packages together and he would go and entertain the troops, the American troops all over the world. And so my brother and I would go and we'd watch him. I mean, we were always together, traveling and. Yeah, I grew up in a lot of American culture bases all over Europe.

[Billy Morrison]

I didn't know that about you.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

So I don't want to make assumptions. But he changed his name. Harry.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He was Herschel Levy. Harry Levy.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And he couldn't get any work, and so he changed it to Arden.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. That's such a painful thing, you know, when I think back.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. That people had to change your name. You have to deny what you are.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. So you're born basically in the show business. Did you feel that? Does that. Cause I, you know, I think, you know, my father was a musician. I just remember being a kid, like, there were always people around, you know, people in the house, people in the basement getting stoned. It was just part of my life. It was normal to me. But looking back, I realized why. To other kids in the neighborhood, it was very exotic. Did you. Did you feel that way, too?

[Sharon Osbourne]

The same thing, Billy. It was like we didn't have birthday parties for us and things like that in the house. Cause it was a house where work was going on all the time. So it was an intrusion and we fitted in and we knew how to behave. But there weren't kids coming in and out of our house. Never. And same thing. Musicians coming in and out and other agents and this and that, you know.

[Billy Morrison]

So what was your sense of it then? And I guess what I'm saying is, like, what was your sense of the music business then? Because if you had gone on to be, say, an actor, it would be relevant in a way, but you end up becoming into that same world.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, it was. We didn't mix with anybody unless they were in the industry.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

That's the way it was.

[Billy Morrison]

Was it because. Because it was the people you choose to associate with or. There was. I know, back and I was Talking about the 70s, people treated anybody in the music business as less than. There was a feeling that, you know, my father was doing something untoward by being a musician. Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Get a proper job.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. That was always. My father complained his whole life that my step grandmother had once told him, when are you going to get a real job?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, exactly. And other people. Yes. Would think, oh, they're odd. You know, they're a bit extreme. I want to mix with them. But we always kept within what my mother and father were doing.

[Billy Morrison]

Where do you think your father's love of the business came from?

[Sharon Osbourne]

He loved music. He just loved music. And that was his whole life. And he could read and write music. And it's very rare for when he did become a manager, for the manager to read and write music. And the musicians that were coming up then, not many of them could.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And my father could Talk in technical terms to other musicians.

[Billy Morrison]

The stories are legion about your father's way of doing business. But then in the same breath, whether it was like Kenny Jones or something, talking about.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He was so charismatic, very charismatic. Because being an entertain, he carried that with him all the time. And he was very dramatic. And when he would walk in a room, you'd notice this because of the presence that he exuded. And he was very, very charismatic.

[Billy Morrison]

Was Gene Vincent like, his first kind of really big act that he managed, or would you point to somebody before that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, it was Gene. It was Gene.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Cause I remember seeing David Bowie perform actually on his last tour. I think David knew then he was sick and did this kind of last tour, but he didn't tell anybody until later. But I remember. And he was very chatty in a way that he usually wasn't on a stage. And he told a story very deliberately about how seeing Gene Vincent perform around the time your father would have been managing him, basically, in his mind, created the Ziggy Stardust character. And that the way Ziggy stood on stage was a complete emulation. Cause Gene Vincent had this weird motorcycle accident. He tells this whole story on stage.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I never have heard that story.

[Billy Morrison]

Isn't that cool? Yeah, because that goes right back to your father's.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He had a bolt between the knee, either side of his leg, and it went under his.

[Billy Morrison]

Like a booted brace or something.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, it was two metal rods. I mean, it was really bad. And he was really the first rock star that came up. He was unbelievable.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So the first guy I ever saw wear black leather.

[Billy Morrison]

Shades of things to come. Right. So you're, I think, 8, 10 around this time. So what's your impression of that world at this point? I mean, you're old enough to know, okay, this is Dad's business. These are people, like, what's your impression? Because I always like to ask people, like, how they felt in the time. Because obviously we know Gene Vincent is a legend. Rock and roll has a lot of debt to Gene Vincent and Elvis and these great pioneers. But at the time, you're just a little girl and there's Gene Vincent, like, at the office or. Yeah, you know. What was your thought about somebody like that? Did you. Did you see him as having a different type of charisma, or did it strike you? I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, because he had a very strong accent. He had a very strong American accent.

[Billy Morrison]

Was it like Brooklyn or. I don't know, his.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, it was like he would like, slide his words and with the booze, too. He had a very slurry accent. Slow. He would speak very slowly.

[Billy Morrison]

So in growing up in this musical family, who were some of the music. Who were some of the musicians or artists that you liked, even if they weren't managed by your father?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, it was all the people that my dad. I mean, I got to see amazing, incredible artists as a child and knowing they were special. But then as time gone by. How special? Oh, I see real.

[Billy Morrison]

Can you name some names? I'm just curious.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Jerry Lee Lewis. James Brown in the early days. Chuck Berry. Little Richard. Who was. I always kept in touch with him.

[Billy Morrison]

Really?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Always kept it.

[Billy Morrison]

Did he always know that you guys knew each other all those years, then.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Met Ozzy and the whole thing? Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

That's so cool.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. The Everly Brothers adored them.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Brenda Lee, my dad managed Brenda Lee for a while.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I just read in touch with her.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. I just read Graham Nash's book, and he talked about standing on the stairs outside of some English hotel where he got to meet the Everly Brothers and how that changed the course of his life just for them to listen to him and give him that two minutes of like.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

You know, it's such an interesting thing because it's.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Sorry for.

[Billy Morrison]

No, no.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I want.

[Billy Morrison]

I'm here to hear from you, not from me.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Sam Cooke, he was the one that stood out for me.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I adored watching him perform.

[Billy Morrison]

So was your dad promoting and managing?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay, so that makes sense. So that's why you're seeing these great artists that are coming over. Yes.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He would put these packages together, and they were just. I look now at some of the old programs that I have, and I'm like, oh, my God, all these artists.

[Billy Morrison]

Daddy really had a sense of, like, he felt what was going on, and he saw it. Did he like rock and roll?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Loved it.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, interesting.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Because not a lot of guys who grew up liking what he liked.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

In that generation made that transition. You know, Frank Sinatra famously was criticizing the Beatles.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, exactly. He. He embraced it.

[Billy Morrison]

I came very late to appreciate how good the small faces were. Did you? Did you.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I went to school with Stevie Marriott.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay. Cause I want to ask you about Steve. So. So. But I mean, at the time, did you. I know they were sort of a. In a way, like a teen sensation, but they had musical credibility.

[Sharon Osbourne]

They did. They did.

[Billy Morrison]

And my big harp. And I'm kind of embarrassed to admit it now. I think they might be one of the most influential bands ever, but somehow, in America. Because when they caught on, it was kind of later. 30 days in the Hole, like grittier rock. But when you go back and listen to the whole thing, especially with Steve and Small Faces, and you realize, like, how many people ripped him off, including Led Zeppelin. And it's unbelievable.

[Sharon Osbourne]

His voice is incredible. Just incredible. I was sent to a stage school and so the school, like a performing.

[Billy Morrison]

Arts type of thing.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes. So you learned all the performing arts. And of course, is this you trying.

[Billy Morrison]

To be a dancer at this point?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Anything. Because it was like my father said, unless you could entertain, you'll never earn a living. So Stevie was at the school and he was in a production of Oliver in London.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And he played the Artful Dodger.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I mean, that voice of his was just incredible. And he was tiny, tiny little.

[Billy Morrison]

He's tinier than you. Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And he was like real spousy ballsy. Like would argue with anyone.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, yeah. See, I think it's interesting because like I said, now we can sit here and talk and we can say, this person's a legend and this person's in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. But at the time, the business was a fraction of the size it is now.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It was still a business. It was still the music business instead of the music industry.

[Billy Morrison]

Ah, I see. That's an interesting point. So I saw something, and before I say it, I know that Brian Epstein did it, but there's some thing about your dad chart fixing. And there was some controversy about him with Small Faces and chart fixing.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And pay for play on the radio.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. They would go and they'd go in the store and buy like a bunch of singles to try to get it.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, yeah. To get it up in the charts. Yeah. We would all go out on a Saturday and, you know, pocket full of. Of cash and go to every record shop and buy two things.

[Billy Morrison]

That was kind of standard procedure back then.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, sure.

[Billy Morrison]

When the Small Faces kind of started to take off, did that sort of change your father's fortune and that now other artists wanted to work with him and the.

[Sharon Osbourne]

We were.

[Billy Morrison]

Sorry, were they the first kind of young contemporary band that he had association with or.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes, yeah. That were English too.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And. But we were always had money or completely broke.

[Billy Morrison]

So it was Permobust.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, that's the way it was. So I was always used to adapting. You just adapt, you know. Oh, we've got no phone in the house. Cause it's been cut off. We didn't pay the bill. No lights. We didn't Pay the bill or water just. Okay.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. I saw a story, I think it was in Peter Frampton's book, where he was talking about he'd had the band, the herd.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes.

[Billy Morrison]

And I think your father had managed him. I don't remember the exact story, but something along the lines of, like, somebody came up and was asking Peter about working with your father, and Peter said something unkind about your father. And a few days later, a couple guys showed up.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Peter stepped outside the club and said, we're going to talk to Don. Like, you get in the car. Took him to the car. He walks in, and there's your dad behind the desk and says, take my name out of your mouth. I'm not trying to say it as some sort of sign of his character. It's more of like. I know that that business back then was very rough and tumble.

[Sharon Osbourne]

There were no laws. There were no laws. It was, you know, they were pioneers. So lawyers, this, the other. Forget it.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Sign here. Sign now.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Or get out.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, there's two more waiting to come in.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Because my daddy, when he had some opportunities in Chicago in the late 60s, he told me later that the reason he didn't sign because of this implication that you were signing in with the mob people. I'm not saying that's your father's experience, but there was that feeling that there were other forces at play and you had to be careful where you stepped. And I think, at least it's important pointing it out, because like you said now it would be about lawyers and magistrates and who says what and what the law is in California.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Back then, it was nothing at all. And, you know, everybody knew it was quick money, very quick, like gambling. And so everybody wanted a piece. And the mob was very much involved in America in those days. They just were. And my dad had some connections and some. With these guys called the craze that ended up in England going because they had clubs and they would want stars to come and perform in their clubs. And so my father knew them. And.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, it's like when you see those old interviews where they're kind of. They're poking around with Frank Sinatra about whether he has any mob ties. Well, the real answer is you couldn't play a club in those days without some organized crime connection, because that's how they laundered their money and it's.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And Vegas.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's a. I'm saying is there's another side to that story.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes. Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

There's no. There was no way to play in that sandbox without having to rub elbows with somebody up to something.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Right. And you get very much. You know, when artists would come, especially to New York on the east coast, wherever they were, they were involved. They owned the buildings, the theaters, and.

[Billy Morrison]

The guy put in the chair on the stage. And if you didn't pay Something, something.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, exactly.

[Billy Morrison]

So this is my understanding of the acts that your dad did manage, but maybe this is a wrong list, but Jerry Lee Lewis, some of the names she had. Little Richard, Gene Vincent, Air Supply, the Move, Black Sabbath, Eloquence. Anybody else that I'm missing on that list? It's a pretty good. Pretty decent list of success.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. So the Nashville Teens, the Animals.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, that's right. I didn't know about the Animals.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now there's a guy with a great voice.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, there's the famous story. The day they recorded House of the Rising Sun. It was on, like, a houseboat. They went in on this houseboat and recorded it in, like, a couple hours and then drove up the road to a gig. Didn't think anything of it. It's magical times in those ways.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. It just.

[Billy Morrison]

Now we make albums forever and Pro.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Tools, and we need to fly here and we need this guy in to do another mix. The purity has kind of gone.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. That's why I love talking to you about it, because you were actually there and you saw it happen. Not a lot of people really saw the way that business ran at that time. In many ways, for me, as a fan, it makes those times even more magical because you realize it really was trying to find lightning in a bot.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

And talent really was the great delineating force. So when you look at small faces, you know, when you listen to that voice, that's not him doing 18 takes. That's him stepping up to a microphone in many ways, live.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, yeah. Oh, we've got four hours tonight, so can we finish?

[Billy Morrison]

Unbelievable. It gives me chills to think about because it's. If you love rock and roll. We love rock and roll. It's humbling, you know? And of course, your husband, one of the great singers of all time. It's like it was there from the beginning. He found it or he had it.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

It's not like somebody said, well, you know, Oz, can you.

[Sharon Osbourne]

If you move this way and if you dress this way, and if we get this choreographer in, you know, you'll be. Kids will love it. It just came from within. It was for all of those artists.

[Billy Morrison]

I Always laugh because there's that concert film of Sabbath playing Paris, like, 1970. Yes. And Ozzy's wearing, like, a Members Only jacket. It's so. Like, they're playing all these doom songs, and Ozzy's in his Members Only jacket. So it's two questions, but take them any way you want. It's what did you want to be or become? And did your father want you in his business? So how does that work as a teenager? Like, how are you if you're. I don't know, pick your age. 12 for 13. You're looking forward.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I wanted to be a dancer, but I. I knew I didn't have the dedication that it takes to do ballet. Because it's like being a gymnast.

[Billy Morrison]

It's like six hours.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I didn't have that. I wanted to have fun, really. And you can't do that if you.

[Billy Morrison]

So what's fun for you at age 13? 14?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Just. I went to all the gigs I could. All the TV shows where there was music on. There was this show in England called Top of the Pops. And so everything that was in the top 20, they would play. And certain artists would come in and perform live.

[Billy Morrison]

So you used to go to see the live Top of the Pop shows?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And then my greatest joy was I got to host it once, and it was my greatest joy.

[Billy Morrison]

How old were you when this happened?

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I couldn't tell anybody there. Cause they would think, oh, I see. You know, I've been watching it since I was this big.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

But how old were you when this happened? Oh, God, this happened. I must have done that in 2001. So 23 years ago.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

I was thinking it was back then. Oh, oh, oh, I see why you. Oh, yeah. So when's the first time you saw Ozzy in real life?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I saw Ozzy at 18. And they played a club in London called the Marquee.

[Billy Morrison]

So that would have been what, 19? 78?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, 76.

[Billy Morrison]

76. Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No. Why am I saying that? No, 70. 71.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, that early. Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

That early.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay. Right. That's what I was trying to understand.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And there was all the talk in the office. Cause I worked for my father. Then I left school at 15. You could leave school at 15 in the.

[Billy Morrison]

What do you do in the office at this point?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I am the receptionist. I am learning the business. And I was a receptionist.

[Billy Morrison]

How are you as a receptionist?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Terrible. And terrible. Because I used to answer the phone, and I would answer the phone with different accents on because I'd get bored And I'd done all the accents at drama school, so I would be American, I'd be all of this. So I just used to play. But there was all this talk in the office that there was this band called Black Sabbath that had a stupid manager from Birmingham and their album had just come out, and there was all of this talk about this album. Nobody's heard music like this before, and it was, you know, a small business. So everybody was talking, and they were coming to play in London at the Marquee Club, and every manager in London was there trying to steal the band.

[Billy Morrison]

So you were at this gig where this is this kind of moment.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

So what's your. I mean, obviously you have a lot of time to live with your husband since then, but, like, what's your sort of first impression? Did you have an impression of him? The band?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I was.

[Billy Morrison]

Put me in the room a little bit.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Well, it was packed, it was sweaty, it was small club. And when it started out, I'm like, what the hell is this? Good. I'd been used to American artists always I see. Or the faces, you know, and they were like, jolly and happy. And I'm like, what the hell is this? What's going on? And the walls were all dripping with sweat. And, you know, I was like, what is this? I couldn't quite make it out. Yeah, but you knew it was special, the vibe in the room and watching everybody's face.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. There are those moments in our life, musically, where you see or hear something and you know something's happening, but you haven't figured it out yet. So it's that odd feeling of like, I'm behind something, but why am I behind? I shouldn't like this, but I do, but I don't.

[Sharon Osbourne]

But, yeah, it was very odd. And so the next day, they were due to come to see my father. So my father sent his chauffeur, who was a very interesting person, and he was also his bodyguard, and he was involved with the craze.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And he had a checkered past, you could say this gentleman.

[Billy Morrison]

It sounds better with your English accent.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So he went to their hotel, picked them up and brought them to my father's office. The first time they'd ever been in a Rolls Royce. And my father was. He knew how to put it on, you know, impress.

[Billy Morrison]

I gotcha.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So they came to our offices, which were in Mayfair, in London, and they come in, they sit in reception. There you are. There am I. And they're all sat on the floor. And they wouldn't sit in seats. They had to sit on the floor. And I'm like, what the is going on here? And I'm just taking my calls, you know, trying not to have eye contact with anyone. And then I showed them into my father's office. And then this gentleman, his name was Wilf, who was my father's bodyguard and chauffeur, was to drive them back to the station where they were going home to Birmingham. And he didn't. He took them to a pub.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And one of the guys who worked for my father, in fact, he used to be Gene Vincent's tour manager for my father. When Richie Blackmore was in the backup band the Blue Caps, they were called, right? He joined the meeting. He used the tour manager for my father, but he was working every day in the office, this guy. And so he met Wilf. They sat down with Sabbath. Sabbath told them they were terrified of my father and Wilf. And this guy Patrick said, yes, and he'll steal all your money. You don't want to go with him. He will beat you up. He'll do whatever, whatever, whatever. And they were terrified of him anyway because they'd heard stories. And that Friday, Patrick and Wilf left. And they took Black Sabbath. Well, they didn't take them because we never had them, but.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, I get you. I get you.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

So to the romantic side of the equation, you're looking at your future husband. You don't know he's your future husband. Do you have any stars in your eyes?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Did you feel any? I. At that point, I was. Honestly, I was so like, oh, God, I can't look at them. I'm embarrassed. I'm, like, insane.

[Billy Morrison]

They were kind of motley back then.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, they were. And I was like, oh, I'm embarrassed to look at them. I was used to people coming in smartly dressed.

[Billy Morrison]

Vibe.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Very sophisticated London.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And not them.

[Billy Morrison]

Tony Iommi. Because I got to work with him once on something he was telling me about. When they would come down from Birmingham to London, they would feel like aliens and the press would treat them poorly, and they couldn't wait to go home because London to them was this alien.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Place, really strange for them. And when they first went to America, it was even worse. Can you imagine them in New York? They were scared to leave the hotel.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, so. So at that point, there's no, like, nothing.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, nothing.

[Billy Morrison]

Do you remember talking to Ozzy back then, or. No, I'm just curious. No, it's the romantic side of me.

[Sharon Osbourne]

We had nothing but Wilf and Patrick, who left, who took Sabbath. And of course, you know, huge, huge record sales, huge stores. I spoke to Patrick. I had a friendship with him. He'd worked for my dad forever. He was always very nice to me. Not with Wilf. I didn't have a friendship. He was frightened me. But with Patrick I did. And so I used to go to a few gigs my dad didn't know.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then I got to meet Ozzy. I'd take girlfriends and we'd go and see a show when they were in the house.

[Billy Morrison]

So then you got to know him a little bit socially. Yes.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So then over time, I got to know them and Tony.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then Tony would come into town, into la. When I moved to la, he would call, we'd go hang, that sort of thing.

[Billy Morrison]

Just very. Nothing special, just other warm, nice. How you doing? So take me a little bit through. How do they eventually end up with your dad?

[Sharon Osbourne]

In early 79, Tony was in LA and he said, everything we thought your dad would do, they did to us. They stole. They took everything. The guys would say, can we afford houses? They're listen to this. They did. They would do, you know, a three month tour of America. They would get £1,000 in a check each for the tour.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

But they would think that was a huge amount of money. They were happy with it.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then they'd say, do you think we have enough to ever buy a house? And Patrick would say, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, go buy a house. We'll take care of everything for you. And they would buy houses. They weren't big estates, they were houses, you know, regular houses. And they bought them, but they weren't in their names, they were in Patrick's name.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, my God.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Even the cars that they drove. Patrick's name was on the pink slip. So when it all went up in the air, they came.

[Billy Morrison]

So I know the story's oft told, but just simply walk me through, you know, at some point you fall in love and now you're managing, you know, he gets booted out of the band that year.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It was that year that Tony called and said, would you talk to your dad? Would he take us back? Yada, yada. And of course, my father's revenge was, of course I will.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And they came back, they would, you know, they'd always complain about each other. It's a band, you know what it's like in a band.

[Billy Morrison]

Every band complains about everybody. All the time.

[Sharon Osbourne]

All the time.

[Billy Morrison]

Hate to blow the mystery, but that's.

[Sharon Osbourne]

The way it is, right? And they were always on about Ozzy and this and the other and Ozzy.

[Billy Morrison]

Can I stop you there? Because I'm such a fan and you were there. And the sense was they somehow they turned on him. But I. I've never really understood why they turned on him. The way they did it was. Was, you know, generally it seems to be couched in. He was getting too crazy or something. But was it? You know, the most striking thing to me is because I've seen this footage. It's like suddenly. And I know they did it different times, but like, Ozzy's singing on the side in front of the speakers and Tony's in the middle.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Tony had him moved to the side so Tony could be in the middle.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I think the long and short of it, really, we all know Ozzy was never a good drinker. He was always the first to be on the floor. I mean, the worst drinker in the world and drug taker. The others could maintain some semblance of we're okay. But Ozzy was always, you know, on the floor. And I honestly think because Ozzy didn't play an instrument, that his value in their eyes was this big. You just sing. You just sing. All you do is sing. So I honestly think, and it's something I've tried to sort out, but my thing is, is that they were envious because Ozzy got attention, which every lead singer does, it comes with the gig. And they weren't getting the notoriety that he was. And they thought, you don't do anything. You're drunk all the time. And why do you get all this notoriety?

[Billy Morrison]

Sure, sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I think that had an awful lot to do with it.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And they were kids.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, that's kids. Yeah. Obviously those bridges have been repaired and, you know, mended long ago. But it's funny too, because even as a fan, and I was listening to Sabbath Starting in like 74, I was very young when I first heard Sabbath, about 8 years old. And to me, it just. It still connects with me. I don't know why, I just love them. But. But the one thing that really does strike me, and because I was a fan during the contemporary times of those 70s and 80s records, I don't think any of us knew as fans that Ozzy had a. Had a charisma that went beyond just being a great singer. He's beloved in a way that very few people in music are. And you love the man, but you've also had a front row seat to, like the way he connects with people is very unique. Did you have a sense of it then?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes, when I started to hang out with the band more and more. Because really, Tony and I were. Had a friendship. Like, he would come in, you know, like I say, give me a call. I'd take him to some clubs, whatever.

[Billy Morrison]

And Tony's a very sensible person. He's kind of gentlemanly and.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Very gentlemanly. And, I mean, he's just a nice person to hang with. Yeah, he's very social. Tony is very social. And, you know, we had a friendship. And I just. Ozzy has this thing. He's just. You can't dislike him. He had the best smile in the world. The best smile. He would smile at you and, you know, you'd just, like. You'd want to hug him.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And he always remained. He still is a fan of music and other musicians. He's a huge fan. And I think that people got the sense of him, that he's very genuine when he says, I love you. Yeah, he does.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. You know, like. And you saw it. He would always say in concerts, we love you. And I can't think of anybody who ever said it the way he did. People will say, we love you. Thank you. But he would say it through the whole night. And now, all these years later, I realize he really meant it.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, he does. And he. Over and over and over. And there were times when people would say things. Oh, Ozzy's crowd. Is this. That the other? Have you seen the Aussie crowd? Jesus. You know, nothing like Sting's crowd or the Stones crowd.

[Billy Morrison]

What a thing to say. I understand.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And Ozzy would go insane. He would go insane when he would hear those things.

[Billy Morrison]

Because to him, it's insulting.

[Sharon Osbourne]

The people he loves, it's insulting. It's like, how dare.

[Billy Morrison]

Dare you?

[Sharon Osbourne]

These are my people. How dare you say these things? Yeah, it's beautiful, you know, and it's like ticket pricing. And, you know. Oh, you know, if you want to go see the Stones, it's this much money. And he's always very much like that working mentality. You don't do that. Why make your fans pay more to see you?

[Billy Morrison]

God bless them. So take me through. You've known him for years, and then one day you're in love and managing well.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It was when the band had decided, definitely Ozzy had to go.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And Tony said to me, who do you think I could get for a singer? And I said, I know this guy, Ronnie Dio.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So I introduced them. They got on really well. Cause Ronnie was a Very social guy, too. Very easy to talk to. And they all hit it off, which was great. And they got rid of Ozzy, which was not great for Ozzy because he didn't have any confidence in himself.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So he thought he was like over, over embarrassed to go back home to see his wife and kids. Embarrassed to tell them.

[Billy Morrison]

So but.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then my father and I, and we just said, we can keep both. Why not? That's what we do.

[Billy Morrison]

So did you kind of take over sort of day to day management or.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay, so where does this lead to your father accusing you of stealing him and all that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Because I realized that Ozzy's record I realized with Jeff Lynn. Jeff Lynn I used to work with all the time, and Roy Wood, but.

[Billy Morrison]

For context, Ozzy was signed to Jet.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Ozzy was signed to JET Records. And then JET Records was distributed by. In those days, cbs. It's now Sony.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So we wanted out. Cause I knew for Ozzy that he.

[Billy Morrison]

You wanted out or your father wanted out?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I wanted Ozzy out because I knew he would never get any money. Never. My dad used to wait after the first tour, where's the money? Give us the money. Cause then you used to get paid in cash still in those days.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I'd have bags of money and he'd say, where's the money? And I'm like, we've gotta pay crew, We've gotta pay this. That. Trucks, buses. And I just knew that we would just be workhorses.

[Billy Morrison]

So Ozzie was still under a contract, a Jet, even though he'd been kicked.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Out of Cell individually.

[Billy Morrison]

Did he have a key man type of thing?

[Sharon Osbourne]

It was all. Whenever my dad signed anybody, it wasn't just the band, it was the band and individual.

[Billy Morrison]

So nobody could.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay, so do you go to your father and say, he needs to get off of this. And is that where the split starts to happen or.

[Sharon Osbourne]

My father at that time was going through a lot personally and he had decided to leave my mother and he'd got some young woman that he was living with here and his head wasn't in it. All he wanted was the money.

[Billy Morrison]

I see.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I mean, he always wanted the money. My father's attitude was, I'll make you a star and I'll take the money.

[Billy Morrison]

That's the. Okay, so what happened first? You taking a bigger role in Ozzie's musical life or falling in love? Like, how does that. What's the sequence there?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Taking care of Ozzy. He was married, two little babies. And it was one of those cases of having such belief in him that this is gonna work.

[Billy Morrison]

Did you just feel it?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And then when. Of course, when we met Randy, it was, you know, we were like the Three Musketeers.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I managed Randy, and he was under contract to me, not my father.

[Billy Morrison]

I didn't know that part of the story.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No.

[Billy Morrison]

Very good.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I learned from my father.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, you are his daughter.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And it was just a very magical time when you believe in something so much and your whole being is in it. And I had a lot to prove. Ozzy had a lot to prove. Randy had a lot to prove.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So it was like, that's all we did, was work, work, work.

[Billy Morrison]

Would you say at that point your faith was greater in Ozzie than Ozzie's faith in.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes. Because he didn't believe in himself. He kept saying, I know I can't do it without Sabbath. You know, nobody will want me. Nobody will remember me. They won't care about me. And I'm like, nah, you can do it.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. I have this beautiful memory of playing basketball in my front yard. You know, we had a little hoop, and they said, coming up, the new song from Ozzy Osbourne, the former lead singer of Black Sabbath, you know. But then they went to commercial.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

So I'm just out there shooting baskets. And so it would have been Crazy Train, I think, would have been the first song. And I. And I. It was that one of those moments in your life where you stop and you go, what is. What is this? Because I'd heard all the Sabbath records, and I certainly recognized his voice, but it was like. It felt like this lightning bolt. Like, something is happening.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

And I couldn't wait to hear it again. I felt like I was at the middle of something so new. I could really feel it. And I was, you know, 14 years old, playing basketball. But I remember stopping and just looking at the boombox. Because whatever you all had created in that moment, it was shocking. It had that, like, great music has a way of feeling like you're fast forwarding in the timeline all of a sudden back to your father's on the business side. So did you guys have an amicable. Okay, I'm gonna manage him. Or he didn't refuse. Or, like, just give me. Walk me through the business side of it all.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He wasn't actively working my father. He was there, sure, but he wasn't actually physically doing anything I was doing.

[Billy Morrison]

But Oz is under contract to my father, to your daddy. So how does that work?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Well, I was doing all the work we were. He paid him his advance for his first album, which was $50,000 for Blizzard. But we back to back made two albums.

[Billy Morrison]

Right. While you were waiting for the first one, I wanted to ask you, was that waiting because you guys knew you had a hot record and you're trying to set it up.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I just said, we're gonna spend so long touring the world that we need to have a record come right away. So we did them back to back. And my father hadn't paid Ozzy or Randy for the second album.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I was like, you can't do this. They won't. And I would lie, and I'd say, they're refusing to go on stage until you pay them their record of art. So I was like playing mind games with him. And because I wasn't on his side, that was really the thing that broke.

[Billy Morrison]

He saw you siding more with yes.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then it would be him against us. And we were this force, and it was just like breaking worldwide and he wasn't a part of it. And they kept saying, randy's terrible. He's got to go, because that's crazy. They didn't have control of Randy.

[Billy Morrison]

I see.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So they wanted Randy out. And we're like, no, he ain't going nowhere. He's staying. And my father, we would hardly speak. And then one year went to a year and a half, and it was hostile and.

[Billy Morrison]

But Ozzy's still under contract, your daddy still under contract.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then we said, we're getting married and we want out. Totally, totally out. What do we have to do to get away from you?

[Billy Morrison]

So now it's just a business thing, right?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So he said he wanted a million and a half and an album. And in those days, you know, it was load of money.

[Billy Morrison]

That's a lot of money.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So he wanted.

[Billy Morrison]

It's still a lot of money.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He wanted a million and a half and another album. So we said, okay. So I had to go to the record company and say, ozzy's going to be leaving Jack. You want to sign him directly. Which they did.

[Billy Morrison]

So you got the future advance to.

[Sharon Osbourne]

You've got it.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And so they gave me the money to pay my father. And then we gave him. We're thinking, God, what can we give him? Quick to get rid of it.

[Billy Morrison]

Like a live record.

[Sharon Osbourne]

A live Sabbath record. So it was like, sorry to the fans, but we had to do this.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, I like that record still. So it's kind of fun.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So that got rid of him. But I did get rid of my Father. My father was. Wherever we went, there was somebody, you know, he'd send his little Italian guys that would turn up at gigs and say, the publishing. Your father still wants Ozzy's publishing. He's not giving up on that. And the guy would sit there and he'd have his foot on the coffee table and he'd have a gun in his boot, and he'd pull his trousers up to try and scare me. And I'd be like, I don't give a. What you've got in your boot. I don't give a. Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He's not signing.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And so it was hell. It was hell with my father.

[Billy Morrison]

I was going to say, the little girl in you, it's got to. Breaks your heart. No.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, my God. It was like my father had died. I was pining my father. Pining for.

[Billy Morrison]

Because up to then you guys had had a good.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, I listen with IO, I stood behind him with everything. And I was. You know, Jeff Lynn was a friend of mine.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He lived at my house. Him and his first wife lived at my house with me in la. We were. It was like a family.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then when Jeff said to me, your father owes me 4 million. And I'm like, 4 million? No, he doesn't. And that was. Jeff was the thing that actually turned the light on in my head that what people were saying was true.

[Billy Morrison]

So walk me through a little bit of what it's like to manage the man that you love.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It's very difficult. It's very difficult. Billy, he. And even he says somebody asked him that question, what was it like being married to your manager? And his answer is, I never knew who was talking to me, my wife or my manager?

[Billy Morrison]

A bit of both, maybe.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, in many ways, what you would think was best for him as a wife and for your family is probably the best thing for him, too. In reflecting on your managing of Ozzie, I think not only have you done an incredible job, and I can give you some specifics of why, I think why that is, but I also think that you were very ahead of your time in figuring out that what Ozzie brought to the table and Ozzie's ability to connect with people, you broke him past the boundaries of music, which nowadays is kind of standard operating procedure. But you figured that out way earlier than most people. I don't think anybody in the music business circa 1986, figured that Ozzy had tons of money in him in 50 different directions. Yeah. Did you have a prescient sense that that's where the business was gonna go, or that's what. Just how you wanted, how you saw a good business. Does it make sense? Did you have a vision of it or that's just what you felt?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I just felt that. Ozzy, do you want to know the biggest mistake I ever made with Ozzy?

[Billy Morrison]

You're gonna admit to a mistake?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yep. I have several. Billy, you. We could be here all night.

[Billy Morrison]

I gotta get ready for this one.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He got offered to go and read for Pirates of the Caribbean. And I've never said this to anyone.

[Billy Morrison]

And you said no?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I said no. Now, wouldn't he have been perfect?

[Billy Morrison]

He would have been perfect. I know maybe it's not too late, but God bless. But that's funny. God, it's interesting to think of him.

[Sharon Osbourne]

In that thing because when Johnny wanted Keith to be a pirate. Do you remember?

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, of course.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

I love that the glib version of the question is, how do you balance someone who has addiction issues with, you know, making those important professional choices? But I know in your world, it's more. It's so much more personal than that. You know what I'm saying? And you're a person who's. To best of my knowledge, I mean, you're basically always been sober.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

I don't think I've ever seen you drunk or high or. You know what I mean? This is the person.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Drugs were never sure. So my thing.

[Billy Morrison]

But so stepping outside the rock and roll conversation that we're having, anybody who struggled with a partner who's struggling, that's a tough thing. And then when you amplify it into the public sphere, that makes it even more complicated. So what was your. Did you have a plan? Did you think, I just have to manage this? Like, what was your. As you're going along, how are you figuring this out?

[Sharon Osbourne]

After I had my kids, because we had them very early, and there was only a year in between each one. They called that Irish twins. But your whole life changes. You know that? Your whole life changes.

[Billy Morrison]

It's all about your kids, everything.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And Ozzy left two children with his first wife. And I saw what the children would. You know, the disruption, what it does to kids. And I thought, I don't. I can't have this happen again. And another three kids. How can you do that? And so every time it would get bad, and I'd go, oh, Jesus, I should just, you know, go, yeah, but you think, no, I've made a commitment. I love him. And I cannot have my kids come from a broken home. I cannot I just can't do it. I've seen the damage. I know the damage. I've lived it. I don't want it for my kids. And I just adored him so much that whatever he would throw at me, I'd throw back at him. You know, we had a very, very volatile relationship because Ozzy came from that generation.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

You know, you can hit a woman, it's fine, you know, And I'd seen so much violence growing up with my dad. Not that he was violent to me, but.

[Billy Morrison]

You saw it. Yeah, yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And it was just like, well, that's what people do, don't they?

[Billy Morrison]

It's the same in my world. You. You tell somebody, oh, I'm getting my ass kicked, and say, well, you think it's any different next door? It's just the world we grew up in. So now, of course, people have different conceptions of it. So for you, was it a. Because I. I meant to ask you this question. It's like, because you've always had a hard, charging, aggressive managerial style. And, you know, you. You certainly believed in what you believed in. You know, you were never shy about saying what you felt. And you certainly defended your husband in a million different ways. And in almost every case, you were right. He turned out to be the legend that you believed him to be. It's easy to say that now, but, you know, whether it was stupidity about biting the head off a bat, all that stuff that we would see in Cream magazine, you know, now people think it's funny, but at the time, the music business was way more conservative.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And how conservative. They would take his albums out of every Tower records. They would, you know, ban him on certain radio stations. And it was like, he's not a killer yet. I mean, like. Yeah, it was just. I mean, serious. I can remember CBS calling me and saying, if Ozzy ever comes to our premises or after he bit the dove off in the meet and greet that we had, he's. We will stop releasing his records and we will not let him be sold to another label. We will just destroy him.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. And they had. And back then they had that power. That was a real. That's a real threat.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

It's not like now where he can run to social media and get the fans to rally behind. Back then, if they wanted to. Digital analog assassination. If they wanted to, they could. And they could get all the stations to stop playing your records. And remember that there's. I don't know if you know that story where there was all the payola going on in the late 70s and Pink Floyd got sick of it. So they basically said, we won't be part of the payola process. And CBS tried to work the record without the payola. And every radio station in America basically said, okay, we won't play Pink Floyd anymore.

[Sharon Osbourne]

That's right.

[Billy Morrison]

And that's when Pink Floyd learned that the power that they thought they had.

[Sharon Osbourne]

They didn't have, they didn't have. And it was all like, you know, oh, you need a new car. Oh, you want to go to the big game or the World Series, whatever it was, all of those radio people would be there. You know, that's how the perks of the job, they weren't going to stop that.

[Billy Morrison]

So the question that I was after was, and this is why I kind of connected it to the world that you and Ozzy grew up in. This kind of post war world. It's like. Because sometimes people ask me, like, what is success? Is success winning or is success survival?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Survival.

[Billy Morrison]

That's what I thought you'd say, but I wanted to hear it from you.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It's absolutely survival.

[Billy Morrison]

Just keep.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And the whole thing I always used to say to Ozzy was, we just want to stay here. You never want to go here because there's only one way and that's down. We just want to stay here. Consistent. Consistent.

[Billy Morrison]

I think as an outside observer, and obviously we know each other a bit, but I think Ozfest is probably your greatest coup. Did you have a logic behind that at the time?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

So tell me your logic. I wanna see if it matches what I think.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Okay, well, everybody was playing Lollapalooza, everybody. And, you know, they had all those alternative stages. They had the Singing Monks, they had Tom Jones, yada, yada. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, well, what about Ozzy? And the agent for Lollapalooza said Ozzy's not relevant. And that me off because I thought, how disrespectful.

[Billy Morrison]

How about half the bands playing owe a debt to Ozzie?

[Sharon Osbourne]

It's like, how disrespectful to say that.

[Billy Morrison]

About any artist, but especially someone that was very influential to the alternative music world. I mean. I mean, everybody but Peter Hook from New Order, Kurt Cobain, me. We were all in debt to Sabbath on some level. Sabbath is one of the weirdest bands in the world in that they really get love from the alternative community in a way that almost no metal band ever has.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, and never will. It's probably. I can remember Ozzy was at a studio and Kurt was In the studio, and he. In another room in the studios, and he came in and he'd written Ozzy on his knuckles.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay. That's all you need to know, right?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And it was like Ozzy was like, oh, my God, that guy in that sweater.

[Billy Morrison]

You know the one, that little kid.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

I want to talk about your life in television, because ultimately this interview's about you, and you've had a very interesting life. But I don't know how to frame the question. So maybe you can frame it better than I can, but there's been a lot of fighting. There's been a lot of skirmishes. Does that come from a sense of, again, the need to survive? I need to defend what I'm after? Does it come from a sense of justice or, you know, like. The one thing I do know is. You don't like bull.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, I don't like to pretend. And the thing is, for me, going into tv, I looked at it as a manager. I'm not an artist, I'm a manager. I don't have an artistic bone in my body, but I just look at it as if.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure, but did you ever have aspirations? It sounds glib, to put it, like, making it about you, because.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, never. And it came as a complete surprise when I was asked to do things when we finished the Osbourne. And I'm like, okay, what's the deal? If the deal is good, I'll take it.

[Billy Morrison]

Did someone approach you to do the show, or was it an idea that you had?

[Sharon Osbourne]

The Osbournes? No, it was the kids and Ozzy. I wasn't in. It did Cribs.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And it was the most requested Cribs. So they came to us and said, well, we want to do something. What can we do?

[Billy Morrison]

So then you bring in people and people start riffing. Did you. Were you hesitant to let people inside your world as much as you ended up? I mean, it became very personal.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. No, I was like, no, it was.

[Billy Morrison]

Did you see how it would help the business?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, because initially it was only meant to be three weeks, and it ended up three years.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And that's how we got to own the Osbournes, because the guys came, the film crew came, and a year later, they were still filming, and it hadn't been released.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And then they said, we've got to do a deal here. I'm like, okay.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. I mean, now looking back, I mean, it's such a groundbreaking series. You know what I mean? Do you see it that way?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Funnily enough, we'd looked back on it as a family together. We were looking at it all as a family, the four of us. And it actually disturbed me.

[Billy Morrison]

Really?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, it did. It disturbed me for my kids. You know, Amy didn't want to do it.

[Billy Morrison]

I remember talking to her at that time.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

I asked her point blank, why don't you do it? She says, I don't want anything to do with this mess.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And I. I looked at my kids and what they were subjected to because I allowed them to and their behavior. And I was shocked. Yeah, okay. But you're in it so deep. And when it came out and it was like everybody thought it was amazing. I'm like, do they? Okay.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I can remember my best friend, who is an agent, said to me, you can't let this go out. This is disgraceful. You cannot. You've got to stop it. And I'm like, oops, too late.

[Billy Morrison]

Too late. It did. Am I right or wrong? And this might be an improper assumption, it did seem to revive Ozzy's musical life in a way. Was it because he. Am I wrong about that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, you're right. Because there were people that had kind of heard of Ozzy's name, but had never seen him.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And so they saw him and they either fell in love with him or hated him, but more fell in love with him. And then they would go out and buy his old record. So it helped everything. Because fans that we never thought he would ever reached.

[Billy Morrison]

It's interesting that it was more of an organic process inside your world. Because looking. It seems like a genius coup. You know, they call it like first mover advantage that you'd figured something out. No, but Ozzfest, you know, that I think was that.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It's because they were so disrespectful about Ozzy. I was like, I'm gonna show you, you bastards. How dare you say that about an artist? And I went insane. Came up with the idea, well, we'll do our own festival. We'll do a heavy metal festival. It's never been done. Let's do it.

[Billy Morrison]

It def.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And it worked. And it was like 20 odd years of fantastic summers. Fantastic bands.

[Billy Morrison]

Look at the relationships that were made because of that festival.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Exactly. Amazing. And what it did was it then opened the doors for other promoters in other countries to do the same thing. So for the genre of music, it was passing the torch. And I look at the bands that are now doing their own festivals and I'm like, it's great. Yeah, it's fantastic.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. At what Point. Do you make peace with your father again?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Okay. There were years that it was just horrific for me. I mean, we'd be asked to leave restaurants, certain restaurants at my father. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, everybody in the beginning thought that Ozzy and I would fail. Everybody, the whole industry thought that we would fail.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, they don't know you very well.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And we had a really, really hard time. I remember one time I came back from a meeting and the nanny was in the hotel room. This was before we had a house here. And my father had been on the phone and spoken to the nanny and said, tell my daughter to get out of town and get those kids and leave this town.

[Billy Morrison]

Wow.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay, so how do you make peace with that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

My father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and he'd lost all his money. He ended up. And he had air supply. That was the only thing he was managing. And then that dwindled. And we've always, always. Our entire family has always been huge spenders. My father would be, you got it, you spend it. I'll make more. And he kind of passed that on to me, unfortunately. But he had nothing. And he had Alzheimer's and my mother had died, and there he was.

[Billy Morrison]

Did you pick up the phone or. He picked up the phone.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, Ozzy, I wouldn't pick up the phone.

[Billy Morrison]

So Ozzy picked up the phone.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Ozzy said, you have to go to your father.

[Billy Morrison]

So how do you feel when he tells you that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I'm like, I just paid a tax bill of my father's. Cause not only did I work for my father, but all his companies, everything, everything was in my name. Everything.

[Billy Morrison]

Did you know that at the time?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And I trusted him. I didn't know we're flying to Singapore. We're getting, you know, 50 mil from this bank in Singapore. Sign for it, Sharon. Sign for it. You know. Oh, okay, I'll sign for it.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Bull, bull. You know, wow.

[Billy Morrison]

And did you go see him or call him?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I called him and it was early Alzheimer's. So, you know, and then he had a bad heart. And then I said, okay, I'm coming to England. I'm going to get you fixed up, and I'm going to bring you back to America. And that's what I did. I brought him back. I put him in an apartment with nurses. And then after a while, he needed to go into a home because it was full on Alzheimer's and it sucked big time. It's wicked, wicked thing to ever have.

[Billy Morrison]

I went through it with somebody in my life and Watched it up close. And it was very hard. It's very hard.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It's heartbreaking. And I used to have a sound system in his room for him, so he could listen to all his favorite music and he would sing along. But you ask him how he's doing, nothing. And that's the healing of music. He would sing along, not mess up one lyric.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Yeah. Was that hard for you to make peace, or did you say, I'm just gonna do what I need to do and then kind of sort it out later? Does that make sense?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. And then when my father died, I went and sat with him for a while, said everything I wanted to say.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, I hear you. My father passed away a couple years ago, and I'm still in that space. Right. Just. I haven't quite worked it out yet, but I get it.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Did you have a good relationship with your dad?

[Billy Morrison]

It was back and forth. It was back and forth. He had such terrible drug issues that, you know, like a lot of people with those issues. It's like one day, it was the greatest and awesome and awesome. Best daddy in the world. Because he loved music. And we'd talk about Jimi Hendrix and the time he did this. And then the next day he'd be like, you know, give me 15 grand. And I'd be like, why?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Because I need it sounds like my dad. But my dad didn't do drugs or.

[Billy Morrison]

Drink the drugs is the complicated thing, because you're always in that space of like. I did say one thing to once do when I said, because I was always very judgmental of him doing drugs, and I said to him, I think I understand now, Daddy. And he said, what do you understand? And I said, I think if you hadn't done drugs, you would have killed yourself. And he said, that's true. So at least I found some peace. There was like, even though I don't like it and I don't like what it did to our world, I also can appreciate that that was your way of staying here. And I do think that was true.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Because I truly believe that the drink and the drug makes addicts feel the way they always want to feel, and they're trying to fill that big hole that they all have inside of them.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, Well, I mean, think of all the people, your husband included, that you've watched throw away opportunities and moments in life because they're just not able to hold it together. It's a tough thing for everybody involved. So because of the Osbournes, they start calling you for television. Were you surprised by that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Totally. I'm like, oh, okay. And then I get a call from a company that wanted to do a chat show. And then, sure, yeah. And this thing is with me. I was on a. Because I'd been in the industry my entire life. I get it. I get it. And it's like, people who make TV think that they're saving lives. It's tv. It's a TV show. That's all we're making. It's not that important in the big picture of life. But people who work in TV are like, oh, you know, this, that, and the other. And I. A lot of the time I would be off because I wasn't getting paid. What my mail, ah, counterpart was getting paid.

[Billy Morrison]

I had a feeling. That didn't sit well with you?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No. And me off big time. And a lot of things that they were doing I didn't agree with. But I played the game. And then in the end, I was getting greedy. And then it's like, am I doing sure. You know, again, we're not saving lives here. It's just tv. And it's. And everything I've always said to artists is, if you don't want it, someone else will do. Replaceable.

[Billy Morrison]

Replaceable for sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And there's always talent coming up. That's one thing you can never stop. Wars can't stop it. There's always that wonderful creative spirit in people that will always go on. And I was just like, I don't need this. I don't. What am I doing? What am I doing? I'm prostituting myself out for a patient.

[Billy Morrison]

Was the attraction that it was good for business?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, it was, okay, I've done it. You get on my nerves. I don't really like it. So I'd leave, or then I would have an argument with America's Got Talent here. I fell out with horribly, NBC. The people who I fell out with have since been let go under bad circumstances. And I'm very happy about that. And it was awful. The situation with NBC was horrible. They had offered my son a reality show which was SAS forces with celebrities. Who's gonna win this sort of thing?

[Billy Morrison]

Okay, sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And my son had always loved extreme sports and things like that, shooting and all of that. And he was really up for it. And he got diagnosed with Ms.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And we had to tell them. And then they went, oh, no, you're a liability. We can't have you. And they just chopped him off at the knee. And I said, well, why doesn't he host it? Sure, he knows all the language, everything that you're doing. Let him host it. Know he's a liability. And then I just said, you. I'm leaving the show. And I left under such bad circumstances, I. I couldn't believe the way they were behaving. And I don't care because I'm not looking for my next gig.

[Billy Morrison]

Sure.

[Sharon Osbourne]

So I can turn around and say to them, go yourselves. Take your little tv, Shove it up your ass and leave. And they're not used to people talking to them like that.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

They get like, she's insane. She's this. I am insane. But it's like, I don't want to.

[Billy Morrison]

Rehash the stuff that happened with the talk show. The Talk. But I didn't. I certainly didn't like the way you were treated. That seemed strange to me.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It was very, very strange. And I was sticking up for my friend who I've known for years.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I know for a fact Piers Morgan is not a racist.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Absolutely not a racist. He's. And I didn't like what they kept saying he was. And I was standing up for him, saying, no way. And why does. Even if he was a racist, which he's not. And a friend of mine. Why does that make me a racist? Cause I'm his friend.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, we've lived through this very strange time, which hopefully is ending of this kind of.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I hope so.

[Billy Morrison]

Guilt by association and innuendo and clickbait and. And I really hope that we can kind of come out some other side, because it's very damaging to the west, where we really are the place of freedom. And we're setting a very terrible example if we're trying to take away, like, let's call it the. The ability to even. Just disagree. You know, I always love that saying, let's agree to disagree. It works perfect in a band. You're having the band argument, and you say, you know what? Let's just agree to disagree.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Exactly. And the thing is, because, you know, everybody wants to know, who are you voting for? Well, actually, it's none of your business, right or wrong. And they either like you or don't like you, depending on who you're voting for. And it's like, it's none of your business.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Well, hopefully we're coming at you, I hope. I think. Please, Jesus. It's sort of a general question, and you can take it any way you want. You've had health struggles, and thank God you got through that. And I saw something where they said, you've been open about your depression, but I don't know what that means. Is that something I just read or is that true?

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, it's true. I've had it for years.

[Billy Morrison]

And do you think it's chemical or is it sort of unresolved stuff?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I think back now and things that I've learned and read, and I honestly think it was. I was born with it. I've always had that, you know, put on a jolly face, showbiz face. And then, you know, when everybody's gone, you're like this. And I've always, always had it. And then something else. I didn't realize that I had ADHD until last year.

[Billy Morrison]

That's pretty late in the game to figure that one out.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I just thought that I had one of those heads that didn't stop. Didn't stop. And it's like, you know, I've got the TV going in my head, the radio and an album. It's like all going on at one time. I've got all of these different things going on. And it's. That was really enlightening. Cause I just thought, why doesn't anybody else have this? And I can't explain it.

[Billy Morrison]

Would it voice itself in insomnia or nervousness or anxiety and never sleep.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Always been just a couple of hours, really. Oh, yeah, I'm up all night, you know, and the head starts, the voices, all this.

[Billy Morrison]

So. Because I think most people look at lives like ours and they say, you know, it's hard for them to relate because in the American estimation, and you've been in America for so long, is if you. If you have success, that's the cure all. And of course we know that does. It doesn't work like that. In many ways, it. I'm not saying it makes it worse. It makes it more difficult because you're navigating public, private, different struggles. So.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And too, in this business, you don't want to show people your insecurities.

[Billy Morrison]

Oh, no, that's the worst.

[Sharon Osbourne]

The worst.

[Billy Morrison]

It'S is. And maybe that goes back to my question about the public squabbling. Is. And it's. I'm not trying to get anything specific because it's not important to me, but is that maybe part of what made you feel like you had to be feisty? Do you know what I mean? It's like, you know, sometimes it's easier to defend the front gate than when somebody gets to the door. You know, it's.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I think a lot of it had to do with my time that I was born and also what I did for a profession. There wasn't many women doing it.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

If you were a woman, you were what they call the secretary. And you go, and you, you know, you show your letters and you do my appointments, and that's what women do. And you look nice and you take care.

[Billy Morrison]

When he started managing Ozzy in 1970, whatever. I mean, how many women managers were there in the world?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I think one. Billy Joel's wife. But it's.

[Billy Morrison]

It is. It is very much a boys club.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Unbelievable. And you know, the record industry in those days was coke. Go to a strip club, get some hookers. Oh, we go to a game, and then we go to the strip club or golf or everything. So you never accept it. And it was either she's here cause of her father, or her father, he's powerful, or her husband. And it was like, no, you. And it was.

[Billy Morrison]

No one says you better than you. It just has a ring to it.

[Sharon Osbourne]

But it just. It was just something that I had to survive. And this is all I know.

[Billy Morrison]

Right.

[Sharon Osbourne]

I didn't know anything else. This is how I live.

[Billy Morrison]

So have you survived?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, I've done extremely well. Learned a lot. Horrible mistakes, but nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect.

[Billy Morrison]

So what hills are left to climb for you? I mean, you have done it all.

[Sharon Osbourne]

To be a good grandmother.

[Billy Morrison]

I like that.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, a good grandmother. Be wise for my grandkids. Teach them wise things. And take care of my hubby.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. I saw the speech he gave at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. I guess what I'm after is it seemed that him getting in on his own was really important. Not because he didn't deserve it. Of course he deserves it. He should have been in long ago, but it seemed to strike a particular nerve in him. Is that accurate?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yes. Because he still thinks a part of him still thinks that he's less than.

[Billy Morrison]

It's amazing.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, it was.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, maybe that's part of his charm, you know, because he really is that guy. You know, I mean, I've met him many times and he really is that guy.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, he is.

[Billy Morrison]

He doesn't have a bad bone in his body. It is kind of remarkable.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He doesn't. And he has no jealousy. He's happy for everyone. That does Good. And you know, he is a very delicate soul. And it sounds crazy saying that about Ozzy, but he's a very delicate soul. But all people, I honestly feel that, again, it comes with being a creative force. Really. All artists are delicate.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Last thing I want to ask you, because your lives are so intertwined, you know, he when did he retire? Like, remember there was the retirement tour? That was long ago, right?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, that was in 92.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay. That's what I'm saying.

[Sharon Osbourne]

That was because at that time, he was having problem with one of his legs. And we took him to a doctor, and he was wrongly diagnosed with Ms. They said he had ms, but he didn't. He had Parkinson's. The guy just gave us the wrong diagnosis. So I thought he had Ms. So I said, okay, we're retiring. We're going back to England. We're taking care of Daddy. So when I got to England and I went to some professors, they said, he doesn't have ms, which, of course he didn't. But they didn't pick up it was Parkinson's because they're very similar.

[Billy Morrison]

So I guess what I'm after is. It seems like. And I. You know, it doesn't matter the year. It's just the idea. It seemed at some point he clicked into a phase, and I think even saw quotes along the way. This is not recent, but in my mind, that. That he needed music to keep going. And I'm not saying to live, but it seemed like music kept his spirit up or his.

[Sharon Osbourne]

He says his own words are, it's the only thing I've ever been good at. And he doesn't want to give it up.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, good for him.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, he. He gets such joy from it. He. He loves it. Just loves it. Loves. You know, some people can just kind of cut that side of their life off and then go and retire.

[Billy Morrison]

And I've seen it. Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, me too. He can't. He can't do it. He loves it so much. And that's what's so tough, because, you know, he wants to be with the guys touring and.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah. Okay, so last question. Could you have imagined, like, I mean, them on the floor in 1971 at your dad's office, or you when you guys fell in love like that? You guys went on this crazy journey. I mean, it's a really unique and in a way, very American. Maybe I'm being biased. America has a way of creating this strange opportunity where people step forward. And you and your husband have stepped forward so many times, even just preparing for the questions. It's like, and then Sharon did this, and then Ozzy did this, and then there's. I mean, we could talk for 18 hours about this tour or that thing or this feud or. I mean, we've had a very full life. Do you feel that?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm tired.

[Billy Morrison]

You?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Yeah, I'm Tired.

[Billy Morrison]

So want to be a grandma now?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Listen, I got five of them, five grandkids, and hopefully more, because Kelly's looking forward to having more babies. But I'm tired. Really, it's okay. How about this? I'm not happy at the way the industry's running.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay? I love this part.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And I can't keep screaming. I can't keep screaming and trying to make things change or it's still. You know, the one thing that gets me is. And I try and explain this to all young musicians, if you see a house that you want, you go to the bank, you ask for a mortgage, they will give you the mortgage, you pay off that mortgage, and then the house is yours.

[Billy Morrison]

Not in the music business.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Not in the music industry. You pay for your marketing for everything. And they own that album, and I cannot. And it's the same with everything, film, everything. It's like, what are we doing here? And then, you know, now they're insisting on the publishing and merchandising, and it's got to a point where there's so much money in it that they forget that it's human beings that they're dealing with. We're not cars. We're not cans of soup. It's human beings. And it just gets me like this.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah, I'll tell you a little story. And it's a good way for us to end. I was in a meeting, a big, big meeting, and they were showing all this data about my band, and they were doing that very kind of subtle way, like, if you could only point this direction, you know, it would be in your best interest to point this direction. And then I asked a question about something to do with radio or something, and they said, well, this station is still mad at you about something you said in 92. This station is mad that you didn't play their summer festival fish fry in 97. And they just kept going on. And I'm not a person who's quick to lose his temper. I'm actually. When I get mad, I get really mad. I don't think you've even ever seen.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Me really mad, but I haven't.

[Billy Morrison]

I have a horrible temper when I do lose my temper. And out of nowhere, it was like, you know, something snapped, and I slammed my fist on the table, and everybody kind of did one of these, like, what the. And I said, quoting Popeye, I am what I am. The thing that makes me great is the thing that makes me terrible. The thing that you think makes me markable is the thing that makes somebody want to puke in a bucket and never hear my voice again. I can't separate who I am. I am the way I am. And even in our squabbles in the years, it's like you are you and I am me.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Exactly.

[Billy Morrison]

And that's it. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's kind of the way it's supposed to be. They're trying to saw the edges off of the true weirdos and the true one of a kinders, you know, they would love to turn into a cookie dough business, of course.

[Sharon Osbourne]

But look at it now, with all the Korean bands that come out and all this K pop.

[Billy Morrison]

Have you ever heard how they do that music?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, please. I just.

[Billy Morrison]

Let me just tell you one quick thing because I had a friend, he went over there for a while, lived over there in a while, end up hanging out with those people. So they have these rooms and literally in one room they'll just write choruses. They don't try to write a song, they just write choruses. And in another room they have. The kids are really good at writing bridges. And in another room they have kids are really good at writing verses. That's how they do it. So they literally just write verses all day. Because that's what they're good at, these kids. And then when, when it's all said and done, they have a pile of bunch of stuff, they'll go, so I'll take that chorus, that bridge and that verse. And that's how they make those songs. It's just a factory.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Oh, it's a complete factory. And you know, they've chopped these kids up to make them look kind of like more western. And then, you know, they'll use them as soon as they get old out, a younger one comes in and it's just soul destroying, totally soul destroying.

[Billy Morrison]

Well, we're not going to be able to fix it.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, we can't.

[Billy Morrison]

You know, last thing I would say is like you saw in your youth and obviously your daddy saw this amazing moment of rock and roll being born in the greatest music engine of all time, which was the UK in that period. And then your husband, you know, and of course many other pioneers invented a genre of music that nobody knew existed. Everybody held their nose and said to hell with it. And here we all still are talking about Black Sabbath 60 years later and all this stuff. So there is some justice. But I think at the end of the day they still win. I don't know why, I'm just cynical about it. Do you feel that way?

[Sharon Osbourne]

I am. I am. Listen, one of the guys that runs the biggest record company in the world turns around and goes, we have to the artists before they usually. And that's your philosophy of running.

[Billy Morrison]

Did you say that out loud or you just heard that behind the scenes?

[Sharon Osbourne]

Out loud.

[Billy Morrison]

Okay.

[Sharon Osbourne]

And it's like, what? No.

[Billy Morrison]

Yeah.

[Sharon Osbourne]

Why? Why can't it be win, win?

[Billy Morrison]

Well, I think that gets to the reason why they're in the business. We're in the business because we love it. We love the. We love the concert. The lights going down. They're not in the business for the moment. The lights go down.

[Sharon Osbourne]

No, no, they're not.

[Billy Morrison]

There's always that guy. I remember it was like. I called it. I'm the guy. I'm the guy who signed Nirvana. I'm the guy who found Guns N Roses. I'm the guy. Usually a guy, so. But we're. We're us. God bless. Thank you for coming.

[Sharon Osbourne]

It's so good to see you.

[Billy Morrison]

You too.