Susan Olsen | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Episode: Susan Olsen (May 21, 2025)

---

Overview

Billy Corgan sits down with Susan Olsen, best known as Cindy from The Brady Bunch, for a wide-ranging and nostalgic discussion. The conversation delves into Susan's unique, multigenerational Hollywood upbringing, her experience on classic shows like Gunsmoke and The Brady Bunch, the nuances of child stardom, and the enduring cultural impact and meaning of one of American television's most iconic families. Billy weaves personal reflections from his own experience with fame, and the discussion is peppered with humor, warmth, and honest insights.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Hollywood Upbringing & Family "Discovered"

• Susan recounts how all four siblings were 'discovered' for show business, often through chance studio encounters. This included her brother Larry's debut in Happy Land (07:24), her brother Chris being cast in The Man Who Knew Too Much (10:07), and Susan herself appearing in commercials as a toddler.
  • Quote: "There's four kids in the family and every one of us got discovered." (05:55, Susan)
• The role of parental attitudes: Her father was deeply skeptical, even bribing Susan to quit Brady Bunch each season (08:01). Her grandmother, praying for family success, is a recurring source of encouragement and "magical thinking" throughout Susan's stories.

2. Young Experiences on TV Sets (Gunsmoke, Elvis, etc.)

• Fond memories of being a child actor on sets: Susan describes her times on Gunsmoke, working alongside Festus (Ken Curtis) and James Arness, and her delight at working with animals on set (03:54).
  • "The second episode was especially fun because the kids were entering our animals in a fair. So...I got to work with a piglet." (02:54, Susan)
• Susan’s first forays into singing and live TV, including singing "I'm a Believer" on The Pat Boone Show—though that original performance was interrupted by a news broadcast and never aired (15:41).
  • "President Johnson came on and said...I think we had invaded Cambodia. So you were saved." (15:41, Susan & Billy)

3. Auditioning, Hollywood Processes, and Competition

• Auditioning as a child: Susan explains the process and the importance of being personable (17:29). She expresses that competitiveness came later, notably when she lost out on roles to Jodie Foster (18:28).
• Early desire for a series regular role, not just guest spots: Susan’s realization on Julia that she wanted consistency that came with being a regular (19:01).

4. Landing The Brady Bunch and Its Enduring Success

• Insights into casting for The Brady Bunch: Sherwood Schwartz sought "interesting kids," not stock types (23:09, Susan). She describes a warm audition memory: "They all sang Happy Birthday to me...I like it here. These are good people." (22:33)
• On-screen chemistry: Both Billy and Susan marvel at the natural rapport among the cast, equating it to that of a great band (24:07).
  • "People are psychic and the love between us was genuine." (25:47, Susan)
• Significance & Impact: Billy reflects on the show's importance to latchkey kids and its "therapeutic" value. Susan shares how child psychiatrists use it with at-risk kids (69:16).
  • "There are countless people that have come up to me and said, that show literally saved my life." (69:16, Susan)

5. The Darker Side of Child Fame

• Post-show awkwardness and guilt: Susan felt guilt wishing the show would end as she entered adolescence but also relief when it did (29:29).
• Enduring effects of fame: Susan and Billy probe the long-term impact—awkward public recognition, the lack of a "fame manual," parental concerns, and the sometimes uneasy transition from childhood stardom to adult life (30:54).
• Working with children now: Susan now teaches at Vibe Performing Arts; she’s mindful of the pitfalls of show business, especially 'fame for fame’s sake,' and emphasizes vetting parents as much as kids (31:19, 35:44).
  • "I think that when people are casting a TV show...you audition those parents, you make sure that the parents have their heads on straight." (35:44, Susan)

6. The Brady Bunch Variety Hour and 1970s TV Oddities

• Reflecting on the surreal Variety Hour era: Susan and Billy dissect the show's campy Vegas aesthetic, "Fake Jan," canned laughter, and other oddities, with both poking wry fun at 1970s television excess (44:08–53:14).
  • Memorable moment: "I think there are several people on YouTube that have said, you know, I thought this was a bad acid trip that I had, and I didn't realize it was real." (45:50, Susan)
• Fondness for cast chemistry remains: Despite the show's weirdness, Susan notes "the chemistry of you all is totally intact" (51:29).

7. Relationship with Cast & Reflections on Legacy

• Deep bonds among cast members: Susan describes a unique lifelong connection with her "Brady siblings" (52:18):
  • "We all know that there's only five other people on the planet that will ever really know what our childhoods were like. If one of us were to die, we would all lose a limb." (52:39, Susan)
• Observations on older cast members and professionalism: Florence Henderson's musical passion, Robert Reed's Royal Academy background, and their ways of relating to the kids (54:36–57:14).
  • "Robert Reed talking to me about cartoons with the very same respect that he would discuss Shakespeare..." (57:37, Susan)

8. Life After Brady, Self-Reflection, and Creative Paths

• Acting beyond Brady and stage fright: Susan shares her eventual aversion to acting, her stage fright, and her realization in her early 20s that her passion lay elsewhere, possibly in filmmaking or the arts (61:18–63:10).
  • "I went, oh, my god, I hate acting. I don't want to act." (61:18, Susan)
• The lasting resonance of Brady Bunch in American culture: The conversation lands on the reasons for the show's comfort and appeal—its fantasy of a responsive, loving family, seen especially through the lens of "latchkey kids" (64:08–70:39).
  • "I realized probably in my twenties, that the beauty of the show is that it was written from a child's perspective." (69:33, Susan)

9. On-set Memories & Atmosphere

• Behind the scenes: Susan shares real details—like the Astroturf lawn that hurt her knees, and the surprisingly gritty look of the set with "cigarette butts all over the place" (73:02). She later describes the surreal moment of adults walking onto the iconic set during the HGTV special, all turning into awe-struck children (73:17–74:04).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There are countless people that have come up to me and said, that show literally saved my life." – Susan Olsen (69:16)
• "I say people are psychic and the love between us was genuine." – Susan Olsen (25:47)
• "To some extent, I felt guilt...because I'd been praying for the show to be canceled because I was going through those awkward years." – Susan Olsen (29:29)
• "The chemistry between the cast is just magical." – Billy Corgan (24:12)
• "I think that when people are casting a TV show...you audition those parents..." – Susan Olsen (35:44)
• "We all know that there's only five other people on the planet that will ever really know what our childhoods were like." – Susan Olsen (52:39)
• (on the Variety Hour) "I thought this was a bad acid trip that I had, and I didn't realize it was real." – Susan Olsen (45:50)
• "My father used to bribe me every season to quit Brady Bunch." – Susan Olsen (08:01)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:00: Susan on the life-saving impact of the show
• 03:54: Memories of animals on Gunsmoke set
• 05:55–12:15: How Susan and siblings were “discovered” in Hollywood & first experiences
• 16:33–17:37: Auditioning for an Elvis movie; child actor auditions explained
• 22:33: Brady Bunch audition & first impressions
• 25:47: Billy and Susan discuss the psychic bond and love among the cast
• 29:29: Susan’s adolescent awkwardness, guilt, and wishing for the show to end
• 35:44: Importance of vetting stage parents
• 41:16: Realization of the show’s enduring popularity and legacy
• 45:50–53:14: Surreal experience and memories from The Brady Bunch Variety Hour
• 57:37: Robert Reed’s rapport with the child cast
• 61:18: Susan realizes she dislikes acting; transition out of the business
• 69:16: Susan on the Brady Bunch "saving lives" and being used in therapy

---

Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is conversational, candid, and often funny, balancing nostalgia with honest reflection. Both Susan and Billy Corgan share an understanding of the strangeness of fame, keeping the tone grounded, affectionate towards the past, but clear-eyed about its realities.

---

For Listeners New to the Show

This episode offers a deep-dive into the unique experience of growing up in the eye of pop culture, with Susan Olsen providing both charming anecdotes and thoughtful commentary about the legacy of The Brady Bunch and her life before, during, and after the phenomenon. It's reflective, occasionally wistful, and above all, sincere—making it a rewarding listen whether or not you grew up in front of the Brady house’s TV.

Transcript

[Susan Olsen]

There are countless people that have come up to me and said, that show literally saved my life.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It warms my heart because I don't feel alone in this scene.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, no, you're not alone at all.

[Musician/Interviewer]

You say fame to me. I know what it means. I mean, I really know that feeling of, like, there's no manual. So then you're famous and the show's over. So what's your mindset?

[Susan Olsen]

To some extent, I felt guilt.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Guilt. Well, thank you so much for being here.

[Susan Olsen]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So I'm obsessed with gun smoke. So that's where I want to start. Oh.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, I love it. Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I'm. I'm obsessed with. I bought, like, every Gunsmoke episode ever. Like, it's like 800. It's like some. It's like something. You got to be something wrong with you to watch them all. And I've watched a lot of them.

[Susan Olsen]

It was on, what, 20 years?

[Musician/Interviewer]

Something like that. You know, one interesting thing about that, you. Because you were on the show, they debated for many years whether or not James Arness would get with the woman whose name I can't think of was played. The proprietor of the saloon.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, really? Kitty. Kitty, yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Because fans would always say, are Kitty and the Marshall ever going to get together? And they made a decision, kind of like the Simpsons did, where they decided to never age. Bart. They made a decision that the secret of the show's success was that they never get together romantically.

[Susan Olsen]

Right, right.

[Musician/Interviewer]

They would hint at maybe a one night stand, but never together. And they believe that had to do with the longevity that they never gave away.

[Susan Olsen]

That's it. Yes. Keep that tension.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So obviously you were very young when you were on the show. Seven years old or so.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, I think I was well on Gunsmoke. I was six for the first episode. And speaking of, you know, romantic relationships, the. The mother. The story is about a mother, a widow, with two children. Of course, I was one of them. Festus is sweet on her. Okay. And it played really well with the audience. So they did a second episode, and they were thinking about having him get hitched. And so I might have been a regular on Gunsmoke.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Abelia is the episode one.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. And then the man called Smith. Yes. Earl Holloman played the father.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So the nerd in me wants to know what it would be like to be on a set like that. I mean, obviously you were a kid, but do you have a memory of. Oh, totally like this? Because it was the whole. And I watched some of the scenes that you were in, it's like the whole city, you know, all the buildings and the carts going by with the horses and all that.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, I didn't see that until the second episode.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. Maybe that's the clip that I saw.

[Susan Olsen]

Like took place at our house and it was rural and second episode was especially fun because the kids were entering our animals in affair. So we had a goat and then we had this adorable piglet named Thomas. And so I, you know, I got. Got to work with the piglet and I, I have Ellie May Clampett syndrome. So I was over the moon about that.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So is that, is that something you reflect on fondly? I mean, it's such a distant memory, but it must be kind of cool.

[Susan Olsen]

You know, I, I reflect very fondly. One of the most fond things is Ken Curtis, who played Festus.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Right.

[Susan Olsen]

And I don't know how many people know this, but he, he was also a big band singer.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Did not know that.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And he had a beautiful voice and

[Musician/Interviewer]

he had a kind of a melodious way of talking, which is interesting.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah, I, I think, I think musical instincts get used in everything you do. And my mom overheard him because he would pretty much stay in character even

[Musician/Interviewer]

with the cameras off.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. But when we'd rap, then like he's on the phone and my mom's just thinking, gee, that man has a sexy voice and turns around, it's Festus. He was actually a really good looking man with a beautiful speaking voice, a beautiful singing voice. And, and I was enthralled with the fact that he could change so drastically. I thought, wow, that's a real actor. And he was so freaking nice. I mean, he was so sweet, considerate and, you know, praising. Just a dream to work with, you know.

[Musician/Interviewer]

James Arness was sort of handpicked almost by John Wayne. John Wayne had a lot to do with the opening of Gunsmoke as a show. He kind of endorsed not only the show, but also endorsed James Arness. So he has got this, you know, this kind of magisterial presence and all that. That's what I love about the show. It's. It. It obviously is set in the Old west, but has this kind of mythical quality that.

[Susan Olsen]

A lot of great. Yeah. Bigger than life. And I didn't get to. I don't know if I even had a single scene with. With Arness.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah. But I would think he would remember because he was a big guy.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, well, I. Because he wasn't on the set. I used to sit in his rocking Chair.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So I know your family had some tie to show business and your brother and stuff like that, but I mean, as a six year old, are you like, are you conscious? Like I'm in show business?

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yeah, very much so.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Can you walk me through that a little bit?

[Susan Olsen]

Well, I mean, okay. It's so weird. There's four kids in the family and every one of us got discovered. It began with my brother Larry, who. He was 24 when I was born, so, I mean, there's a big age gap. Yeah, yeah. And there's 10 years between, between he and my next brother and then eight years between him and my sister. They were supposed to be done, but then I came along. Yeah, big surprise.

[Musician/Interviewer]

The biggest of them all.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, as it turned out. But it began with my, my oldest brother, who, who looked like a cherub. He's a beautiful, beautiful child. And a lady pulled up in a car. My mom and, and, and his name is Larry Jo. They were standing on a street corner waiting to go across to something out of a movie. Totally, totally. I mean, I don't know how many people will believe it if I ever get off my butt and write my memoirs, but so, so, you know, she pulls over the car, she hands mom her card and says, is this little boy in pictures? And she said, no pictures. Pictures, yeah, we're going way back. And she goes, well, he should be. He's beautiful. And they're looking for a little boy just like this. Have him at Box Studios tomorrow at 4 o'. Clock. My name is Lola Moore and you know, this is my card. I'm an agent. And so, you know, take him on this audition. I think he'd be perfect. So, you know, mom goes to lunch. She's having lunch with her mother and her mother says, oh, I've been praying for this. He's.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I wish I had a grandmother praying for me to be in movies.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, she, she was a good prayer. So she was thrilled. She's like, well, you know, this is an answer to a prayer and you must take him. And mom goes home, tells my dad, My dad says, no way, no way.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So no stage parenting here. Just strictly like something from the sky.

[Susan Olsen]

My dad used to bribe me every season to quit Brady Bunch.

[Musician/Interviewer]

We'll get there.

[Susan Olsen]

Okay? So he's like, no way, no, that's not happening. And mom goes, oh, come on, he's not a professional. Yeah, I'd love to see what the inside of a studio.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, it sounds like a fun adventure. Yeah, yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

And he goes, well, okay. So she goes and Then my. My brother ends up walking out of the audition with the script in hand and he has the part in a movie called Happy Land with Donna Michi and Francis D. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. Well, so he starts working. Well, 10 years go by and my next brother was born. And for lack of a babysitter or something, mom takes him on the set. My brother Larry is working.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I see where this is going.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yeah. A director or producer walks on the set, takes one look at my brother Chris, who is 14 months old and says, that baby, he has a mouth like Gene Tierney. I need a child to play Gene Tierney's son for this movie called the Iron Crane.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Gene Tierney, who was discovered standing in the, like, the Universal tour line.

[Susan Olsen]

Really?

[Musician/Interviewer]

Did you not know that?

[Susan Olsen]

No, I didn't.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That's how she was 16, 17. They literally discovered her standing in the line.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And if I'm wrong, it might be Ava Gardner, but I'm pretty sure Gene Tierney was discovered the same way.

[Susan Olsen]

Wow. Yeah, well, and there's always a drugstore.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. Then Lana Turner and all that. Yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

I mean, that's how it happened. That was how the magic happened back then. So he started.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Oh, I didn't want to.

[Susan Olsen]

And then my sister came along and of course my dad was putting his foot down, saying no, no, no. But my mom won and so he started working.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Well, your parents made some TV ready babies.

[Susan Olsen]

Because they did. They had cute kids. And. And my brother Chris is most known for. He. He played the. The child in the man who Knew Too Much.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

With. With Jimmy Stewart and Doris Day.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I don't remember that one.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yeah, Alfred Hitchcock.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah. And he was the first person to record Que Sera Sera.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Good history.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. So then my sister comes along, she gets discovered to be in a commercial or something.

[Musician/Interviewer]

This is like. It's almost too good to be true.

[Susan Olsen]

I know, I know. Nobody. Nobody will ever. And she was almost in the Sound of Music. But I came along the big surprise package. And I don't know, my sister still says that she jinxed it because she didn't want to have to go to Europe when mom was having a baby. So anyway, so she didn't do that, but she did. She did several pilots for TV shows and one of them sold. And she would have been on a TV show, but it was starring Ann Southern and the sponsors, I think it was Colgate told her to lose 10 pounds and she told them where to go and no more TV show. So my sister got really frustrated by that and said, I don't want to do this anymore. And so my mom, in the meantime, I had gotten picked, discovered to do some commercial.

[Musician/Interviewer]

You did a commercial when you were like a baby, right?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, 14 months.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Do you know how much you made as a baby?

[Susan Olsen]

No. Probably $5. I mean, we got. We didn't get paid much on Brady Bunch. So anyway, my sister wants out. My brother Larry has gotten married, and, you know, he's out of the business. Chris is out of the business. And so mom takes me out and says, I'm going to have a normal life. Everything's going to be perfectly fine. I'll bake cookies, go to the pta, and when I'm five years old in kindergarten, a talent scout from the Pat Boone Show. I mean, I'm, you know, and it's my. My grandmother. All full disclosure.

[Musician/Interviewer]

My father hated Pat Boone, but I

[Susan Olsen]

just need to put that out there.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Every time Pat Boone came on the screen, my father would go into a rage.

[Susan Olsen]

Really?

[Musician/Interviewer]

He hated Pat Boone. It was like an obsession.

[Susan Olsen]

Wow. Well,

[Musician/Interviewer]

you're just triggering a particular memory in my mind.

[Susan Olsen]

I can kind of.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Poor Pat Boone, because I like Pat Boone.

[Susan Olsen]

You know, you said these very tame versions of good songs.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I think my father was a musician, so I think that's what set him off.

[Susan Olsen]

There you go.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I think it was his version of Tutti Frutti that day.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, I was thinking of that specifically. Yes. Okay.

[Musician/Interviewer]

See, we got a good psychic thing going on, right? Come on.

[Susan Olsen]

We do.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Come on.

[Susan Olsen]

We do. So anyway, I get picked to sing a song on the Pat Boone show. And you remember the song? Yeah, I'm a Believer by the Monkeys.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But now that's a good one.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And I guess I got picked because I would do all the background instruments. Like, I'd try to sing those along with lyrics, you know, we were trying desperately to find it. No, and here's another psychic. Well, maybe not a psychic thing, but a magical thing.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

When it was supposed to come on, well, I screwed up. I screwed up the lyrics. And I was devastated. I messed this up. And Pepin is saying, well, start over again. I'm like, no, no, can't do that.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It's live tv.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. So I didn't sing the song. And, yeah, I'm just like, move along.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It's like we're on the borderline of trauma and sort of Andy Kaufman esque, you know, performance.

[Susan Olsen]

I was just like, no, I don't get another chance.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That's kind of a weird thing to ask a 7 year old kid to sing I'm a Believer.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, I got picked because I kind of a sophisticated.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But it was kind of a tricky

[Susan Olsen]

song I wasn't at. I mean, that's what I did when they. They called me in. I was in kindergarten. They wanted to see.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Did you have musical training?

[Susan Olsen]

No.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. Just naturally.

[Susan Olsen]

No, but we all have. We all had a good year. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I mean, it's. Music tends to run in the family. Or not.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, it does. And plus I was doing all the doodly doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. So I guess it was really cute, but I'll never know.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But you know what I do, as somebody who likes this stuff, it's amazing what they keep finding.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. I would love to find my sister's pilot for the TV show that she did because we don't have any film on her. We've got plenty on me.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Recently there was something like a. Like a Pink Floyd clip or something of them on TV in 67 that was considered forever lost.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And somebody found it and was able to kind of color correct it. And that's cool. So after 50 years, here's suddenly this clip, you know, so those things do.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, I tend to pop up. I would love that because I. I produced a special called Brady Bunch Home Movies. And we tried to find a lot of old things that we were told were definitely lost, but if they showed up, that would be great. So anyway, when I was mortified to see it on TV because I go home and my mom's going, why didn't you sing it? Why didn't you start over? Well, I can. So the day came for it to air, and of course we have to go over to my mother's friend's house. And everybody's gathered around the tv and I'm just mortified. Yeah. I'm like, please, God, let there be an earthquake or a fire or something so I don't have to watch this.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Well, there was an earthquake.

[Susan Olsen]

No, but President Johnson came on and said that we. I. I think. I think we had invaded Cambodia.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So you were saved. Yes, but maybe that's why there. No copies exist.

[Susan Olsen]

It could be. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it wasn't live tv. It was. It was taped, but so it never aired. And I thought I was really powerful. I didn't think I was responsible for the Vietnam War. Well. But I thought, wow, thank you. Thanks.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I didn't have to see it, so I'd be remiss. Recently, I was in an Elvis doc that came out about Elvis's comeback. 68 special. And I was friends with his daughter Lisa Marie. So I love all things Elvis. And I didn't know you had this uncredited moment in an Elvis film where you are singing.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. And you know, at the time,

[Musician/Interviewer]

and it was his last film, it was kind of when it was getting really good.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, it was.

[Musician/Interviewer]

You didn't know that?

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, I didn't know that. The original.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Is it the Trouble with Girls?

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. It was originally titled Chautauqua. And I wonder why he went back to Chautauqua.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I wonder why he went back to rock and roll.

[Susan Olsen]

And it was actually. It's considered one of his better ones. And I was auditioning for a large role and I would have had to sing and dance and all this stuff.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Do you remember the auditions?

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, I do. And at the time, I. I wasn't a fan of Elvis.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Sure. But can. Just. Because I'm. I love this stuff because I. I love old Hollywood. So what would be a, A typical audition on a picture like that? Do they have. They talk to you a bit? Are you on camera? Like, just walk me through a little bit of the audition process.

[Susan Olsen]

Usually they would spend some time talking to the child to get to know if they were brat or they were nice.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That makes sense.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's something that really needs to be done. Then, you know, you would have your sides, you would have your scenes that you've memorized and you want to be off book to impress them with how well you can memorize.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

And. And then in the case of like this, there was also a singing audition. So. And I remember. It was a Shirley Temple song, but not a real well known one.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Obscure, obscure temple.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, my mother rehearsed me to death.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Are you, are you by nature competitive? Are you competitive in this frame set or you just like having fun and it's a thing.

[Susan Olsen]

It's fun. Yeah. I didn't get competitive until later when Jodie Foster was getting all the roles that I wanted.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, I get that.

[Susan Olsen]

And maybe a little before that, because I definitely wanted a TV show, a series. I wanted a steady job. And I was, you know, very saddened. I did an episode of a show called Julia, Okay. With Diane Carroll. Very, very ahead of its time. Show about a single mother working as a nurse.

[Musician/Interviewer]

This is pre Brady Bunch.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. And like. And I went, she was the nicest lady. And she took me into her dressing room and said, you know, anytime you feel. Because there were two other boys on the set, she said, you know, the boys are irritating you. You Want any alone time? You can always come to my dressing room. And then I'm looking around. She had all these posters for the show. All the posters had the two boys in them. I'm like, oh, they're not just guest stars like me. They're on this show. Wow. And I went to my mother afterwards and she goes, they're series regulars. I'm like, I want to be a series regular. I want a series. And. And so she goes, okay, when you go home, call your. Call your agent. And I did. I went fairy. Okay.

[Musician/Interviewer]

At seven.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, actually I was six because it was three days after my seventh birthday. We were in Las Vegas vacationing, and the agent called and said she has an audition. I said, ah, we're on vacation. She said, well, this is for a series. Oh, okay.

[Musician/Interviewer]

This is for Brady.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, this was Brady. Yeah. But in the meantime, I guess I'd been praying a little too hard because there was talk of Gunsmoke. And I was also up for Nanny and the Professor.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I remember that.

[Susan Olsen]

And my grandmother, my magical.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Another unrequited sexual tension between the nanny and the Professor.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yes, very much so, Yeah. I think that.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Who was the professor? Was it. Oh, God, Sebastian Cabot or.

[Susan Olsen]

No, no, he was. No, he was a.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That was the other show.

[Susan Olsen]

Can't think of. Yeah, he was kind of good looking guy.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Was it Bill Bixby?

[Susan Olsen]

No, not that good looking. He died.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Summer, A guy. A guy's doing a spit take. What are you talking about, Susan? I was.

[Susan Olsen]

No, he's. He's no longer with us. So I, I was free to say that. Yeah, Juliet Mills was Nanny. I don't remember. It was Richard something. But, but anyway, so my. My grandmother with her magical thinking comes to me. She goes, you know, whatever's best. And. And I sound very religious. I'm actually allergic to religion. But I believe a lot in God and I was taught to pray and, you know, my prayers tended to come true. And. And so my gram said, okay, now you have these three shows and whatever's best. God will. Will have whatever's best happen. But it wouldn't hurt if you let him know which one you wanted most.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So did you pick?

[Susan Olsen]

Well, it was really. I knew I didn't want Nanny and the professor because there are only two other boys to play with. And. But gosh, Brady Bunch, there's five other kids. But Gunsmoke has horses. Maybe Brady Bunch.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So little did you know. So when you auditioned for Brady Bunch, was it Sherwood Schwartz?

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, Sherwood Schwartz. John Rich who directed the first six episodes, and Arnold, Jack Arnold, who directed Creature from the Black Lagoon. That's. That's what I knew him for.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Sure.

[Susan Olsen]

To me, that was his claim to fame.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, that's not a bad claim to fame. No, if you're gonna go down, yeah, I'll take it.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. There are a couple of other horror films that he, that he did, but he was a co. He was a producer on Brady Bunch, and he had been a producer on Gilligan's island, which Sherwood shorts had done. So I walk in, it's three days after my seventh birthday. They asked me how old I am, and I. I told them that, you know, been my birthday, and they all sang Happy Birthday to me. And I thought, well, okay, I like it here. Yeah, these are, these are good people. And I never had to do any scenes. I never auditioned as an actor.

[Musician/Interviewer]

They just wanted to see you.

[Susan Olsen]

They wanted. And this was the genius of Sherwood. He rejected or resisted the network, wanting to have a smart kid, a stupid kid, a fat kid, and he said, no, I want to find six interesting kids and build the show around them.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah. And, and, and knowing I was going to talk to you, and I mean, I saw every episode like 40 times. It was the nature of, of, of Chicago television at that time. You know, like most people in the 70s, we had the four stations.

[Susan Olsen]

Okay.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And, you know, we'd be home from school and you guys were on like every day.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So we all saw those episodes. But I guess what I'm after is in watching some of the stuff again, just to kind of put myself back in the headspace, because I don't. I feel it's not fair to sort of rely only on my memory. It's like. But it also reconnects you to sort of the three dimensional experience.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Because time has a way of changing what you remember.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And the thing that really, really jumped out at me very, very starkly was the chemistry between the cast is just magical. It's. It's one of those things. I was lucky to talk to Mary Lou Henner in the, in the, in the chair. In the chair where you are. Same thing. Taxi. Right. Just something about a certain cast.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, There's. They have an almost like ensemble cast.

[Musician/Interviewer]

They almost have a natural thing with each other. And it's almost. And it's not family, so it's makes it bizarre because it's like, how do you take strangers? Essentially put them in a hopper and suddenly it just kind of clicks. Bands are similar too. Oh, yeah, right there's suddenly just, it's like there's a rapport and you don't even know why.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And it's, it's even more important with the band because you know, you're improvising well. But again, you're coming up with your own material by doing the line.

[Musician/Interviewer]

In my elder years here, I've. I've kind of come to this new conclusion that people watching anything, a show, I mean a live show, a television show, I think they read body language more than they read what's actually being hear what's actually being said. Something about the body language I think gives more information.

[Susan Olsen]

And I'll take it a little further into woo Woo.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. I love it.

[Susan Olsen]

I think, I think that people are far more psychic than they realize and, or then they're given credit for. And people will ask me the age old question, what made the Brady Bunch successful?

[Musician/Interviewer]

Like there's a, there's a new one.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And I say people are psychic and the love between us was genuine.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

I mean, the only difference was we didn't fight as much as we did as the characters did on the show. Yeah, we really got along.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So I do want to talk about the Brady Bunch, but I'm, I'm interested in talking about a lot of other stuff. So.

[Susan Olsen]

Cool.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So we're gonna, we're gonna, we'll do a little parlor trick here. So September 26, 1969 was the Brady premiere and then the last show. Where are we? My color card here was called the Harebrained scheme.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

March 8th, 1974. ABC cancels the show because ratings had gone down a bit and you had a five year run.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, we also had a five year contract that had to be renewed. And now we were asking.

[Musician/Interviewer]

See, that's the real story. That's the real story.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. Now we wanted to be.

[Musician/Interviewer]

They blamed it on the ratings, but it probably was a money thing. Bobby had a get rich scheme and Greg's hair turned orange. I was struck just as a quick thing and I do want to circle back, but I was impressed because here's just a partial list of people that were guest stars. Because I was struck by the idea that here you are between the ages of 7 and 12 and here are these people floating through your life at a very young age. Desi Arnaz Jr. Davy Jones of the Monkees, Joe Namath, Imogene Coco, Vincent Price, Ken Barry, who obviously did a ton of Disney movies. Jackie Coogan, Jim Backus from Gilligan, of course, and Mr. Magoo, Don Ho yeah. And Natalie Schaeffer, who of course played Mrs. Howell.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Were you conscious enough of the Zeitgeist of the Times to sort of say, be like, oh, my God, it's

[Susan Olsen]

not Don Ho. I had no clue who he was, but I thought that his partner.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Was he blowing bubbles?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. Tiny bubbles.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Tiny bubbles. Come on.

[Susan Olsen]

And he sang the song Sweet Someone. But his friend Sam Kapoo, I think his name was, was really cute. So I was like, oh, but Don was so nice. We went back. We, we. We did a return to Hawaii for the Travel Channel.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I remember that.

[Susan Olsen]

Really? Yes, really. You're one of the five people that saw it. Wow.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That's maybe why we're here together. It was meant to be. I'm being rewarded.

[Susan Olsen]

But Don was wonderful and he gave me a set of Mai Tai glasses.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. I just think it's cool because I'd forgotten about the kind of the cross cultural pollination, the show having a zeitgeist moment like the Brady Bunch did in those original series years. It gets into this, like, it becomes a snapshot of the America that I remember.

[Susan Olsen]

Right. And we had the astronaut Buzz Aldrin, maybe. No, it was. It was. Was another one. Shoot. I can't remember who. And I was aware kind of of him. Wow. He's.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

Joe Nemeth was adorable. So nice. And remains so nice.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay, so jumping ahead, because before we circle back here, 12 years old, you're famous, and the show's over. So what's your mindset at that? And you're, by the way, you're entering those wonderful awkward years that we all get to go through.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, surprising you should mention that. To some extent, I felt guilt because.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Wait, guilt?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, because I'd been praying for the show to be canceled because I was going through those awkward years.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Is it because people were recognizing you and I.

[Susan Olsen]

It's bad enough to go through your awkward stage and to feel really ugly, but doing it on national TV is not something I wanted to do.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Let me ask you an aside question, because I thought about this with you and I've known a few other people. They're names that you and I would know and so would anybody watching. But I don't want to talk about them in that context. But there's something about being that famous at a young age that sort of changes the temperature of a person's life. It sort of. It becomes a thing. I was famous in my 20s and I still feel at times this weird.

[Susan Olsen]

That's very young.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yes. At the time, I Thought, oh, my God, I'm old and this is too late. But I'm saying there's still that thing that happens whether you're 40 or 50 or whatever. You're walking through an airport and somebody's like, they want to talk about something that happened 20, 30 years ago. So I have a hard time even imagining what that feels like to a young person who hasn't even had the time to kind of do their own version of it.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So what the question I would ask you is, do you think it's right that children work at that level in the entertainment industry?

[Susan Olsen]

It's a difficult question because I actually teach children and my attitude and a

[Musician/Interviewer]

lot of parents don't like, is it a school you have?

[Susan Olsen]

It's a performing arts school, but can

[Musician/Interviewer]

you tell us the name?

[Susan Olsen]

It's Vibe Performing Arts in Santa Clarita. And it's mostly music, but we have acting classes. We do musicals, voice acting.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So you're in constant contact, not only with children, but also the parents who are entering this difficult phase of I want my child to be successful, or even saying, my child wants this, or whatever the rationalizations are. Right. And there are talent like yourself, there are children that are talented.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, there are children where it would be cruel to not let them.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So that's kind of where you land.

[Susan Olsen]

It is. Because I fought for it. I had to fight my dad because once, you know, my dad thought working was bad enough. But then we were going on concert tour, believe it or not.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Oh, I forgot about that.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And you made albums, too.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, we did. And there was so much fame. And so me being gone a lot, like going on concert tour bothered dad, and he thought it was too unnatural a life for me. And the fame, you know, having people come up that level of fame.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, that's. That's a level of fame even. I don't understand.

[Susan Olsen]

I. The first time I saw.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Am I Wrong? Am I wrong? I mean, everybody recognizes you, right?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, they did.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Because back then, people watched. If you watched one of the four channels back then, everybody really knew who you were.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And by the way, with reruns that obviously you grew older. But, I mean, you were still on television, right. You haven't been off television, right?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I mean, the Brady Bunch is one of those series that will never go off television.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, I. Especially now with fast channels and now, you know, streaming. Yeah. I mean, hopefully it will always be around because I think it's always going to be good for kids. You know what I thought made it so uncool. When I was young, like, you know, now I'm a mother, it's like, oh, there's good stories, There are nice morals and, you know, teaching ethics. And so I think. I think it's really. In fact, I tell my kids, my students, like, well, you should watch the show. Tell the parents. Come on, make them watch you. Don't. You have no idea how much it will help you in your parenting.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Do you think, though, there should be some. For lack of a better word, is there a limitation that she. I know they have labor laws and. But, I mean, is there, looking back, what would have helped you? More psychological support, more context? Maybe. Maybe a mentor that had been a child star that could at least voice for you. I understand how you feel. Like, what do you think actually would have helped?

[Susan Olsen]

I really didn't have any issues with it. I was born strange, and I wanted a strange life, and I fought so hard to keep. That can be deceiving. I was creative. It seemed like the right thing for me. There were aspects of it that I didn't like. But in dealing with parents, the wonderful thing is where I'm teaching now, it was different when I taught for a little bit in Hollywood. And there, all of the parents were very serious and they wanted their kids working. And it was like, ew. Here I'm like, I had a parent come up to me and tell me that his daughter ordered in a restaurant with confidence like he'd never seen before. And he thought it was from the acting classes. I said, it is.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So it's the good outweighs the good outweighs the bad.

[Susan Olsen]

You think, yes, I do. Now what? But what I honestly say to the parents, because we do get agents to come in and the kids will get signed. And I say, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing some work, going to a set. They will find out that it's nowhere near as fun as they think. Where I get con concerned is fame. Fame makes everything strange. And I think that when people are casting a TV show and everything's so different now. But I used to say, if you're going to cast kids in a TV show, you want the TV show to be popular. You want it to be a hit. So if you're gonna do it accordingly.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, if you're gonna do it, of

[Susan Olsen]

course you want the best, so plan accordingly. And you audition those parents, you make sure that the parents have their heads on straight.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay, that's interesting. Just because I look back at and I've told this to people behind the scenes, people will ask, like, in the struggles that my band went through in the 90s, people will say, was there anybody that you guys could talk to? No. Was there anybody there who could give you good advice? No. In fact, they wanted us not to have good advice. Of course, they wanted to manipulate and control the situation. So that's why I'm saying I may be at. Because I have young children, nine and six, I'm sensitive, you know, to this idea of like, what it must feel like to kind of. Because when you say fame, I don't know how it would register to someone on the other side of these cameras. But when you say fame, to me, I know what it means. I mean, I really know that feeling of like, yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff and there's a lot of stuff that's like, there's no manual. There's no like, hey, here's the fame manual. Read page seven for what you're going through right now. And so then to add that to a 12 year old child going through puberty, going through all the, all the stages of child development, that just seems like a really tough thing to navigate.

[Susan Olsen]

But. And I think that was another reason why I wanted the show to end because.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Back to your guilds. Well, yeah, and you have a good prayer ability here. I want to talk to you after. I got some things I need to manifest. I'm going to put you in charge of my manifestation department.

[Susan Olsen]

People ask, oh, it must have been so hard because you were so young. And I'm like, no, we had three age groups. We, you know, we had Maureen and Barry, we had Chris and Eve, we had me and Mike. And going through it as the youngest, so much easier because you were the baby.

[Musician/Interviewer]

You were the baby wisdom.

[Susan Olsen]

We, yeah, we'd be concert, tour, whatever. And like to us, fame was a joke. It's like there's all these people wanting to see us. Have they heard us? And yeah, I mean, our egos were not thriving on it. Whereas, you know, with Maureen and Barry, they were, they were just becoming interested in sexual. And suddenly, I mean, Barry's up on stage wearing his fringe and he's got all these girls screaming and.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And he is a handsome man. I have.

[Susan Olsen]

And then there was Chris, who was such a late bloomer and. But he, he was so popular with the girls that they made him sing a solo. Oh, and they actually had Maureen singing for him backstage, which doesn't make any sense.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That's so bizarro.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah. Because she sounds like you know, a Minnie Mouse on helium and. But the girls never heard because they were all screaming so much. Yeah, but Chris didn't like it, and he was so embarrassed by the fact that the girls would be screaming for him again.

[Musician/Interviewer]

The word mortifying comes to mind.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, but he got over that, though, eventually.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I know there's some overlap here, but. Okay, so, yeah, the show's canceled, and you willed this into existence. No more Brady Bunch. It's your fault. But you're still doing, like, animated voiceover work and.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, no, that's pretty much that ended when the show ended.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. I got the wrong information.

[Susan Olsen]

The next thing. Well, actually, boy. And this is a really, really lame tidbit, but we were still going to continue the music. But Barry wanted to do his own solo thing. Okay. And Maureen wasn't into it. And Chris. Chris stopped. Chris quit before the show was canceled. We had a last appearance with Chris in Minnesota, and because he. He hated it. He. You know, he didn't feel like he could sing, and he was right. And, yeah, it was embarrassing to him. So, yeah, at the time, it was like, oh, you're breaking up the band. But I thoroughly understand. But anyway, so the Brady Three were going to go.

[Musician/Interviewer]

The Brady Three. That's got kind of a ring to it.

[Susan Olsen]

Okay. Me, Mike and Eve. And at that point, once again, I think I had power because we got this whole act done, and we had costumes, and I hated it. I thought it was horrible. I thought we were horrible, and I really didn't want to do it. And we got our booking agent, who was Andy Williams brother, Don Williams, and we never booked a single show. And I. I was just like, this is great.

[Musician/Interviewer]

He just. He couldn't book it, or he didn't

[Susan Olsen]

book it, or I don't know what happened, but it was just, please, please don't let it go.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay?

[Susan Olsen]

Don't let us have to go out and do this.

[Musician/Interviewer]

One of the things I love about this ability to have these conversations is, were you aware of the zeitgeist of the show at the time? I mean, obviously, there's the fame. And what I mean by that is not that you didn't see 8,000 screaming kids in an auditorium somewhere, but did you have any sense that this thing would endure?

[Susan Olsen]

Well, you know, the screaming kids didn't happen until we went out with the music. And so we had been kind of sheltered. And growing up in Los Angeles, everybody knows who you are, but they pretend like they don't care, which is great.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, I do find that out here it's an interesting thing that happens.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And I love that. But so we didn't really know that we were that popular until we went out on the road. And I. I never had a sense of it being cool until years later.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

Because to me, it wasn't cool. And I. I knew I wouldn't work until I turned 18, and then, you know, I got back in as an adult, and it was not. It did not seem to be a good thing on the resume.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Well, what's interesting now to me is pretend that the Brady Bunch had just happened in this world, and then fast forward like you'd be in a Netflix movie.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Because that level of fame and that level of personal name recognition, somebody would figure out to put you in some crazy movie or a comedy or. Because they would want you.

[Susan Olsen]

Tvq.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Back then, it was like this weird millstone around people's neck, you know, it was.

[Susan Olsen]

And also, you couldn't go from television to movies.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It was verboten.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And so to me, Bruce.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I think Bruce Willis, in my memory, was the first person that seemed to cross that barrier.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Where a big TV star into. I know Tom Hanks did it, but he was sort of slow. That's true. Got me there.

[Susan Olsen]

But. So, yeah. And when I, you know, I knew I wasn't going to work until I was 18 anyway. And what did you have available? Love Boat and Fantasy island, which I refuse to do.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I wish you'd done Fantasy Island.

[Susan Olsen]

I said, no, these are horrible shows. I'll have nothing to do with them.

[Musician/Interviewer]

If you're bored sometime, there's these great interviews of Mercado Montalban talking about how Hervey Vilaches gets so his ego gets so out of control that he starts insisting that his trailer be as big as Ricardo Montaban's.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yes. Oh, tortured little man.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I wish you had inside intel for me on Fantasy Island. Sorry, no, that's just my own.

[Susan Olsen]

I wish you. But I heard. I heard a lot about what was going on. Oh, yes. Yes. And if the dressing rooms are rocking, don't come a knockin'.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Really?

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Wow.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. Herv got around quite a bit.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I'm just gonna leave that right there. I know you've done a. It's a book or I can't. Something about the Variety Hour.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, I, I.

[Musician/Interviewer]

You did a book?

[Susan Olsen]

Well, I'm one of three contributors. I wrote the sidebars.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

To.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But it's a book, right.

[Susan Olsen]

I'm not crazy. It is a book.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. I'm Saying this lovingly, but it seems from a distance, a particular hell.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. Especially at the time.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I barely remember it. Like, it's like a faint thousand feet away memory. But watching it, I went. Watched a whole show.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, did you?

[Musician/Interviewer]

It was the one with Vincent Price.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, well, he was so. He was so nice.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Rip Torn.

[Susan Olsen]

Rip Taylor.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Rip Taylor. God bless you. Had the. I guess it was a win.

[Susan Olsen]

Hell toupee.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah, right. Yes, the hell toupee.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I love the 70s, but I'm watching this. Okay, let me just. Let me just. Okay, first of all, I have copious notes on just this thing, so you have to take me through this. And I highly Recommend. It's on YouTube.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, I. Please.

[Musician/Interviewer]

The Brady Bunch Variety Hour. Just watch the show where Vincent Price is the host.

[Susan Olsen]

See, I think that's one of the lesser ones. There's just a sketch that I think everybody should see. Christopher Columbus sketch.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

Because it's Robert Reed doing broad. Broad comedy and happy as a clam. He was loving it, having a great time.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But still, you go from this very successful series to now you're like in like a Vegas review or something. Is that fair?

[Susan Olsen]

I think there are several people on YouTube that have said, you know, I thought this was a bad acid trip that I had, and I didn't realize it was real.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And I've taken a lot of lsd, so I wouldn't want to put myself through that, is what I'm trying to say. Okay, so let's walk through some of the finer points that I noticed with my discerning eye. First of all, in the opening credits, there's kind of this. This dancing going on with these people. I don't know.

[Susan Olsen]

The Croftet. Thank you, dancers. Yes, yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

There's a. There's a joke in there about crow's feet. And he's. And the Brady father. He corrects himself. It's like a joke.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, okay.

[Musician/Interviewer]

He calls him the crow's feet. He goes. Oh, sorry, the croak tent.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh. Oh, my goodness.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Anyway, so this is where it gets Bizarre Land and right out of the box. Okay, so there's this Vegas stuff going on, and then they introduce you under your real names. You know what I'm saying? In the opening credits. Florence Henderson. And like, you get all. Yeah, okay, so you.

[Susan Olsen]

But we're still playing our characters, so.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yes, so you're introduced in the opening credits on a variety show where you. Then you're playing.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, we're still playing a family. Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

As if it's real.

[Susan Olsen]

So just that alone so it's the Brady's from that sitcom now for God knows what reason, have a variety show, by the way.

[Musician/Interviewer]

By the way. Put together by Sid Marty Croft. Okay, you want to talk about acid trip? Okay, now we're okay. Okay, first of all, can music. Did you tape in front of nobody? Like it sounds like. Is anybody there?

[Susan Olsen]

Our grand finale. Our final song. Usually a medley. We had an audience for that. Okay, but everything. Canned laughter. Canned.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Right.

[Susan Olsen]

Everything.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. On top of that, you have. Correct me if I'm wrong, because this is the world you've inhabited for. For a long time. Fake Jan.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

There's fake Jan.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Can you explain who fake Jan was?

[Susan Olsen]

Fake Jan is. And she was also parodied on the Simpsons. They had. Because the Simpsons show, that's when you

[Musician/Interviewer]

know you've made it.

[Susan Olsen]

Exactly.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Fake Jan. I didn't know there was a fake

[Susan Olsen]

Jan. Well, there's a Christmas Cindy. And there's a fake Marshall.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Oh, my God.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Get the heck out. But tell everyone who fake Jan was.

[Susan Olsen]

Okay. Fake Jan. Eve Plum had done Dawn Portrait of a Teenage Runaway, this TV movie that was huge and just broke her image and she was off to the races. She's going to have a great career. And she was contractually signed to do the sequel, which was called Alexander the Other side of Dawn. And so they. They replaced her. And. And it's kind of sad because Eve was enough of a team player that it bothered her. And even though I made. Oh gosh, the one time that Florence Henderson gave me a look that I'm. I'm still shocked that I didn't turn into a pillar of salt. If looks could kill. They were all talking about Eve and, you know, what's she doing with this and that? And I said, don't we all wish we had something better to do than this show? Wow.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Wow. Wow. Well, Susan, this is like you're 14ish around here.

[Susan Olsen]

15. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay, good. Okay, carrying on. So you guys have an opening production number.

[Susan Olsen]

You're doing some, which is usually something

[Musician/Interviewer]

from the 1700s because there's no publishing to pay, so it's free. You're wearing orange jumpsuits.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

In the first one, there's a lot of bad dancing. I. No disrespect to your dancing ability. And then for some reason, there's a built in pool in the studio.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So then it turns into this Bugsy Berkeley thing where the. Where the Vegas dancers who aren't connected to the family at all. The CRO.

[Susan Olsen]

Croftet.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Croftette. Sorry, Croftet. I'll remember that. So then they're diving in the water.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And then they're doing like the weird,

[Susan Olsen]

like when they were swimming, but you

[Musician/Interviewer]

know, they're doing like the weird water dancing.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And then they cut back to you guys doing your weird 1700 song.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, now remember, Sid Marty Croft also had a show called the Donnie and Marie Show. And they had a skating rink. So they had the skating rink and we had the pool.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. And then if that's not enough for you LSD lovers, here comes HR Puff and stuff as part of the show.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. And then there's like this weird segment where you're all sitting on like a long bench and you're talking as Brady characters, but you have this natural rapport because you know each other so well. And then it goes out of there like the bad Cannes lines, like, I'm really mad at you, Peter, and all this stuff. And then it goes to like a skit. Like a film skit.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Like a sitcom skit.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But not as well produced as the Brady Bunch.

[Susan Olsen]

Right. It's still videotaped. And it's very obviously videotaped, but like, you know, but that's. See, that's the Bradys doing their variety show where they're doing skits, but then they have the at home moments. And now we're living at the beach and Rip Taylor is our real estate agent and he and Alice, boy, they hit it off. So she's, she's done with Sam the Butcher and she's, oh, she's in love now.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And despite this madness that I was watching at 6am this morning, the chemistry of you all is. Is other than fake. Jan, God bless her, the chemistry of you all is totally intact. There's so much money there to be had with you all. You have this incredible kind of weird. I don't even know, it's like you really are a family somehow or you became one.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. Yes. And yet we never had to live together.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Maybe that's why everyone, we didn't get

[Susan Olsen]

on each other's nerves. And I think anytime that they get us together and let us be ourselves, like the HGTV show, it's always good because we have that. It's the most unusual relationship. And then for us kids, we did grow up together.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay, that, that makes a lot of sense.

[Susan Olsen]

And we know, like when I was producing my special Brady Bunch home movies, I. I started crying when I was pitching it. I said, we all know that there's only five other people on the planet that will ever really know what our childhoods were like. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That is fascinating.

[Susan Olsen]

And if we. If one of us were to die, we would all lose a limb.

[Musician/Interviewer]

See, everyone from the outside sees it outside in. And you. You all see it inside.

[Susan Olsen]

Inside.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It goes this way, not this way. That's fascinating. Okay. A few guests that appeared on the variety show Donnie and Marie, Tony Randall, Lee Majors and Farrah Fawcett. Milton Burr, Burl.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Tina Turner, Charl, who I'm trying to interview. Oh, you know Charles.

[Susan Olsen]

She's lovely.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yes, I'd love to interview Charles Edgar bergen with Charlie McCarthy, Red Fox and believe it or not, a man I actually was in the studio with today, Paul Williams.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, I wrote a song. He introduces the Christopher Columbus sketch.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay, there is our kismet for the day. And here's a little factoid. So in doing my research. Robert Reed Brady, father, was born in the town that I live in in Chicago. I had no idea. The other only other famous person born in my town is Grace Slick of the Jefferson area.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, wow.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And he was born in the town I live in, which is Highland Park, Illinois.

[Susan Olsen]

Wow.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It's one of those things when you, you know, you're doing something, you look and you go, wait, am I reading? Yeah. How.

[Susan Olsen]

Gosh. And that's not a common town.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It's a bucolic suburb up the coast in Chicago.

[Susan Olsen]

And then was raised on a turkey farm. Did not know that. Away from the city. Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Did not know that. Florence Henderson obviously had this kind of, I guess you would call a more obvious professional career pre Brady and hesitated taking the role for the fear that we talked about before, which is this idea of typecasting. And her resume is fairly impressive. Coming in Oklahoma, Fanny, Sound of Music. But, you know, like a touring cast,

[Susan Olsen]

but still she has Broadway.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah. That's an elite crew of people. That's not for the faint of heart. To do those eight shows a week. We've talked about how you and the other kids in the cast sort of reacted to the pressures in the case of the Brady father and the Brady mother. They're professional. You know, they have a career and obviously would look at it differently. Did you sense. Did they feel boxed in by the whole thing, or was it because some people that I've talked to, they default to, hey, a working actor is a happy actor. And I just go on until there's no more job, and then I go on to the next job.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because there are those two different ways of looking at things. I'm Friends with Eric Roberts, who will just work.

[Musician/Interviewer]

He doesn't have this rep now. He's like the most working actor ever. I saw an article recently. They said he literally will take anything and everything, and he's got. He's gained this rep as the most working actor in Hollywood.

[Susan Olsen]

Okay. Yes. And. But I understand it. Once I got to know him a little. I mean, it's not like we're best friends, but he was trained at the Royal Academy in England. Now, that is the British mindset. If you're not working, you're not acting. So you see a lot of British actors, they'll do jobs that are beneath them, but they'll do it because they need to be working. Whereas an American actor will go, see, if I take that, it might typecast me or, you know, I can't do TV because then I can't do movies or whatever. So being that Bob was educated at the Royal Academy as well, I would think that he was kind of of the mindset that he wanted to just keep working. I don't know that he felt. Well, I don't know that any of them really felt that they were hemmed in. Because for Florence, her first love was music. So she went. You know, she would go on to. Well, she hosted some shows.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah. There's all these clips of her singing,

[Susan Olsen]

and I mean, that was what she loved to do. She would do a Vegas act. And so it didn't really hamper her from doing those things. But I'm sure that Bob did not get the serious roles that he wanted.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Sure. Not to project on you, because, again, you know, it's television, but they're the. They're the adults that you're intimately around every day. And I'm not saying they took on the role of parents, but there. There's a surrogacy there.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes, there is.

[Musician/Interviewer]

How do you. Now that you're a parent yourself and, you know, we've been blessed to have a longer life, how do you view how they. I say more interested how they were with you. Like, do you look back fondly on.

[Susan Olsen]

Very much so. And this is why I'm teaching kids today. I want to pay it backward because I had at least three. Many more, but at least three castmates who were wonderful. I remember Robert Reed talking to me about cartoons with the very same respect that he would discuss Shakespeare with one of his peers. If I tended to speak like I was 40 years old when I was 7, and it was cute. But I often didn't get taken seriously or I get laughed At. And Ann was always very good about, come here, honey. Because I'd be asking, are we going to. Are we going to cut at that point and pick it up later or are we going to go straight through? And I'm seven, you know, and they'd all just laugh and come here, honey. We're going to go straight through on this take. And then later on when we do the close ups, we'll blah, blah, blah. So, you know, and like, oh, come here, honey. And she didn't like kids when she started the show. And I'd like to.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I'd like to reason for that or

[Susan Olsen]

just, oh, you know, who wants to be bothered with kids on a set? Most actors really don't. You know, they don't want to work with kids or animals. And of course, that's my favorite. But, you know, for me, it's. People were so good and so kind. Ken Curtis playing Festus. So kind. My mother was. Was very aware of who the good grownups were. And a person's value as an actor depended on how well they treated her kid. So Spencer Tracy was a schmuck and Jimmy Stewart was only outshined by Robert Reed.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I heard a myth when I was a kid that I might be loosely related to Spencer Tracy.

[Susan Olsen]

Really?

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Susan Olsen]

Quite an accident.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Unconfirmed. I have a lot of rumors about my bloodline.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah,

[Musician/Interviewer]

it's a parlor game to do these types of things. But if you hadn't been an actor at such a young age, who do you think you would have turned out to be? Would you have been the same person then, by extension? What do you think you would have wanted to do with your life?

[Susan Olsen]

I probably would have still gotten into art because that was the first thing I knew I could do. And it was always kind of a first love. But I have the feeling that I still would have loved film as, like, the ultimate medium because it involves to

[Musician/Interviewer]

make film or be in film to make films.

[Susan Olsen]

I would have gone to film school, which is something I kind of wish that I had done.

[Musician/Interviewer]

It's not too late.

[Susan Olsen]

I'm 63.

[Musician/Interviewer]

People are living a long time these days. My grandmother lived 103.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, well, the thing is, I was considering USC and it just, it never. And I don't understand why it didn't click into my head. Because I was going to go into the drama department there. And then I went, why would I spend all that money? Because it's my money. I've got my trust fund. I'll go to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts, which is About a tenth of the price. Why? It never occurred to me that what I really wanted to do was to go to film school at usc. That was the right place for film school.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But is it just because you're in the expectation of. I've done this. I've had success and kind of.

[Susan Olsen]

And I think I was trying to please my mother. I think my mom really wanted me to be an actress. And it wasn't until I was 23 and I booked a gig. I went, oh, my God, I hate acting. I don't want to act.

[Musician/Interviewer]

What was the gig?

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, it was an episode of Divorce Court and I played a porn star who had incestuous relations with her brother.

[Musician/Interviewer]

And that's something really perverse about you being from a TV family.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Playing in another show. That's a bit of a weird meta take.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. And I had this little habit of going on auditions and just killing it, doing a great first read. And then, you know, as I got closer and closer to the role, I would self sabotage. And I didn't know that was what I was doing until I came out of the first audition with the script in my hand going, I got it. Oh, no. And then I got.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Can you give me what would be a form of self sabotage in that?

[Susan Olsen]

Just sucking. You know, just going back on the audition and not doing a good job. Yeah. And even being nervous and letting the nerves get to me.

[Musician/Interviewer]

I mean, you've been on camera.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. But I went through a period of time where I was really, really full of stage fright. Just filled with it. I was like 30 and did not. Did not want to do it. Sonny Bono was very kind to me because I was going through all the stage fright before doing a skit that we had to do on this 70s celebration.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But you think that maybe would have been a result of kind of leftover, you know, because, you know, it's like when you throw a kid into something early and they don't really know what they're being thrown into. They learned a certain bravado.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

My son being okay with being on a roller coaster when he was five. Now he doesn't want anyone.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. Donny Osmond went through it too.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

And I mean, he had been going on stage.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Was it a stage fright thing?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, yeah. He. He developed horrible anxiety. So, you know, it happens. But. But I. And, you know, I got home, I knew I had to do the gig, but I called my agent, I said, I want out. And I called my teacher. I was going to. Taking classes with Harry Master George, it was a wonderful class to a lot of people that ended up winning Oscars. And I said, I, you know, this isn't for me.

[Musician/Interviewer]

When you, when you, when you approach a subject that's so institutionally over observed. We've had the books, we've had the reunions, we've had the, you know, I mean the VH1 look back, whatever, you know, you're, you've, you've been in that thing for now. Gosh, if the show ended in 72, what are we, 50, 50 something years of people talking about it, thinking about it. And obviously there were other things that happened. But I mean the core original series is the thing that people focus on. That's where the memories lie and not to be judged and jury. I found myself thinking like, okay, what is the value of this thing? I mean, I accept that it's a cultural, institutional thing of American culture. Like it belongs in the Smithsonian and there's a. Even down to Sherwood shorts making the decision. It was two divorcees who had. Putting their families together. I was in the same situation know, so it was, it was familiar to our generation, you know, that was watching at home. But I started thinking, like, what's the real takeaway here? Like, like, I get it, I think it's cool. And in fact, I meant to tell you, I don't remember. Remember there was the, it was like there was a, a play in Chicago that started. The Brady Play.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes. Yeah. Well, that was real live Brady Bunch.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay. That was two doors down from where I was working. So I knew all those people and I was there literally when it started. They would come in the record shop where I was working, they would say, oh, we're going to do this thing. So I went and saw some of the early performances and I thought this is so fun. And yes. And. But it took off, you know, it

[Susan Olsen]

became like a thing way fun we had in la, Chicago and New York.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Sure. So I mean I, I was literally there at ground zero of this other weird variance, the sisters. But I, I guess what I'm trying to explain to you. Artist. Artist is I'm sitting here thinking this morning, you know, 6am like about the Brady Bunch. But it's like, why does this matter to me? And even for anybody watching, saying like, okay, but it's cool. But like why are you talking about The Brady Bunch 50 years later? Like, how does it really register for some goth musician, you know? And I, and I think I found the key and I'm curious for your take and maybe it's Nothing you would even recognize. I think so many kids of our generation were latchkey kids. And something about watching this fake family, which I know in its own way became a family. It was like we wished we were in that family because we didn't have that. And I'm sure you've heard variations of that. And it gives me chills thinking about it, because you're a little kid, you're nine years old, you're watching the basement or whatever, you're watching a rerun, whatever. And, you know, you think it's corny. And, you know, there's the famous episodes and all that stuff. It's. It's good fun. But I think the sustain in it is we recognized something that was really vital, that maybe even the show's producers and writers wouldn't even understood that there was this whole generation of kids alone in basements and in front of televisions. Like we were going, well, gee, that looks a lot more fun than what's going on here. You know, whether we were. I like to make this joke, you know, we. We were abandoned by our baby boomer parents who were too busy doing yoga and cocaine. That's my joke. But, you know, it was a very selfish generation. And there's the. The term latchkey comes from the fact that we were. We'd come home to an empty house. That was normal, you know, it wasn't even a big deal. So what becomes your parent? The television.

[Susan Olsen]

Yes.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So on one hand you have this idyllic, you know, like I said, Erik Estrada riding down the. You know, the hair blowing and everything looks so amazing. And all of it, you know, even the. You remember, like, Battle of the network stars and all this, like.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah.

[Musician/Interviewer]

You know, there's the stars in reality

[Susan Olsen]

playing at the circus of the Stars. That was.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Now you're going deep.

[Susan Olsen]

Now you're going deep because they really did cool stuff.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Did you ever do any of those?

[Susan Olsen]

No, I wasn't asked. But it was amazing to me because they would actually get good at these things that were dangerous.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Anyway, my harp here is that. I think that's why it's warm in my heart and why I wanted to talk to you. Because there's something there that's a lot more powerful than whether or not somebody likes the show or doesn't like the show. Yeah, Zeitgeist moments happen in our culture for reasons that are a lot more complicated than what it appears to be on the surface. So somehow you all kind of represented this happiness or this warm.

[Susan Olsen]

And there was a need. It's an emotional weird.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Right? And I, I, if I, I, it never would have crossed my mind unless I knew I was going to talk to you. I had to actually process it. I, I did go, and I, I've spent a couple times with Barry, and I've talked to Barry on the phone. Barry Williams, super sweet. What a, what a nice person and cool guy. But even then, hanging out with Barry, I, I was more struck in, in the case of Barry, like, he seems to kind of, like, made peace with the whole thing. Like, I literally was walking down the street with him, and somebody's like, oh, my God. You know what I mean? You know how that goes. It's like it's not your real name, but that's who they think you are. Right. But talking to you, I think it was like, it all kind of came back like, wow, I remember thinking like, gee, I wish I was in that house. Yeah, it looks a lot more fun and sweet and cool.

[Susan Olsen]

Well, that's why, because you're absolutely right. And there are countless people that have come up to me and said, that show literally saved my life.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That's such. I mean, it warms my heart, because I don't feel alone in this show.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, no, you're not alone at all. And when I first became really proud of the show is when I found out that child psychiatrists were using it. They were using episodes for kids that were coming from horrible abuse. And, you know, I would have thought, well, why would they want to see this perfectly good family? They do. They want to see somebody being happy. They want to see that there's hope. And I realized probably in my twenties, that the beauty of the show is that it was written from a child's perspective. I mean, Cindy loses her doll. Well, everybody cares. The whole house is up in arms about it. They have a mock trial for Bobby.

[Musician/Interviewer]

If I lost something, they said, tough.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah, right, Exactly. You know, Dad's calling home from work. Well, did you find Cindy's doll? And so it's a fantasy. It's not realistic, but that's the fantasy the kids want.

[Musician/Interviewer]

But that's why those, but that's why those Disney movies are so powerful. It's not about reality. It's about a destination. And when you don't have a destination, if somebody gives you one, you just like, it's like water or something. It's like, give it to me. Okay, so last thing, because your time in that show is so oft explored. But this is my indulgent question in that. So a few things. Where did you guys shoot the show. What, what, what lot?

[Susan Olsen]

Paramount Studios.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay, Paramount. What was a. What was a. Obviously you're young, so there were probably some labor laws, but what was a normal week of shooting?

[Susan Olsen]

You know, in the beginning it was crazy. We were trying to do three. Three shots a show every three days. When things calmed down and we had a real rhythm, it was. You got your. You got a script, a new script on Friday. You had the weekend to look it over, read it. Monday, there'd be the table read, start rehearsing, start filming Tuesday.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Susan Olsen]

And so it would take a week. Yeah. Once we had the budget to put a little time into the shows and we had a week to film.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Susan Olsen]

And you know, of course, we're also. We tried to film as much as we could during the summer so that we wouldn't have to go to school, but we had to go to school on set. We had to have three hours of school. Yeah. So that could be rough. You know, the teachers, everybody's pretty kind and mindful if you had a difficult scene. Yeah, it's okay. The math test can wait. You know, you just think about what you need to do.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Okay, so last indulgent thing and.

[Susan Olsen]

Oh, indulge all you want.

[Musician/Interviewer]

No, but God bless you. So sometimes I have these dreams, right? And it's like I'm backstage somewhere with the band and, you know, it's like, it's. There's an atmosphere. And so my version of the dream is, you know, somewhere in the ether, there's you at 8 years old on that set, but you were actually there. It's not a dream, you know, so give me something of what it was like to be on that set. Did you think it, like. Like I'm sort of fascinated where sometimes you go places and, you know, in your mind it's one thing, and then you see like the paint is scuffed or. Oh, you see what I'm saying?

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. If you saw our living room floor, it was cigarette butts all over the place.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Right. That's kind of what I'm after is like you actually stood in this dream place, this magical mid modern whatever it was with the staircase and the thing

[Susan Olsen]

and the Astroturf lawn hurt. I was always wearing these short dresses, so I skinned my knees many times on that astroturf. And you mentioned that the house. One of the fun things about the house was being able to have people walk into the house. We redid it, you know, like built it with HGTV and watching people walk through those doors.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Oh, that's right, you guys.

[Susan Olsen]

Yeah. Watching them turn into a nine year old, I don't care who they were. They instantly turned into a child. And I thought we should do a talk show because it'd be like getting the guests drunk. We get them and they'll be all vulnerable and sweet and nice.

[Musician/Interviewer]

That would be me. That would be me. Oh, thank you so much. I love talking to you.

[Susan Olsen]

Thank you.

[Musician/Interviewer]

So fun.

[Susan Olsen]

Anytime.

[Musician/Interviewer]

Awesome.

[Susan Olsen]

Thank you.