Zakk Wylde | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Summary

Podcast Summary: Zakk Wylde | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Introduction

In this episode of The Magnificent Others, host Billy Corgan engages in a candid and insightful conversation with legendary guitarist Zakk Wylde. Released on May 28, 2025, the episode delves deep into Zakk's musical journey, his influences, memorable experiences, and ongoing projects. The dialogue is rich with anecdotes, technical discussions about guitar playing, and heartfelt tributes to iconic figures in the music industry.

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Early Musical Influences and Beginnings

Zakk Wylde reminisces about his early days in music, highlighting his high school band, Stonehenge. He connects with Father Bill over their respective bands, Stonehenge and Hexen, revealing a shared passion from their formative years.

Zakk Wylde [00:14]: "And that's why we're meeting today, because we're gonna put those bands back together."

Zakk discusses his diverse range of musical influences, emphasizing the impact of classic rock and metal icons on his playing style. He credits his guitar teacher, Leroy Wright, for introducing him to artists like Frank Marino and Robin Trower, which broadened his musical horizons beyond his initial admiration for Black Sabbath.

Zakk Wylde [02:48]: "But for me, it was Tony Iommi, obviously, and then being Jimmy Page, you know."

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Career Highlights

Zakk shares pivotal moments in his career, including his audition and subsequent joining of Ozzy Osbourne’s band. He narrates the humorous yet memorable encounter with Ozzy during his early days with the band.

Zakk Wylde [43:48]: "He goes, Zach, just play with your heart and change your pants. Something smells in here."

His tenure with Ozzy not only honed his skills but also deepened his appreciation for Black Sabbath's legacy. Zakk discusses how his experiences with Ozzy led to the formation of Black Label Society, emphasizing the seamless transition from being a band member to leading his own group.

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Musical Style and Techniques

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Zakk's distinctive guitar playing. He explains his deliberate choice to avoid mimicking his influences, opting instead to develop a unique sound rooted in pentatonic scales.

Zakk Wylde [08:21]: "Because if you do Harmonic Minor or this and that, it doesn't matter how fast you play it... I'm just doing pentatonic scales, but I'll pick them, you know, as opposed to just doing hammer ons and pull offs."

Billy Corgan expresses admiration for Zakk's ability to maintain technical proficiency while infusing his playing with emotional depth, ensuring his solos are both aggressive and clean.

Father Bill [84:32]: "I've never seen anyone with your level of attack. It blows my mind. I've never seen anyone play so aggressively and so clean."

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Pantera Tribute and Impact

Zakk passionately discusses his involvement in honoring the late Pantera members, Dimebag Darrell and Vinnie Paul. He reflects on Pantera's monumental influence on extreme metal and draws parallels between their legacy and that of Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin.

Zakk Wylde [37:12]: "For extreme, they're all measured by what Pantera set."

Father Bill shares personal anecdotes about Pantera, highlighting the band's strong community and enduring legacy. The conversation underscores the importance of paying homage to influential artists and the role Zakk plays in keeping their memory alive through performances and tributes.

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Personal Stories and Anecdotes

The dialogue is peppered with humorous and heartfelt stories that showcase the camaraderie between Zakk, Ozzy, and other musicians. One standout moment is the recurring joke about Zakk being tasked with making ham sandwiches for Ozzy, symbolizing his integral yet lighthearted role within the band dynamic.

Zakk Wylde [46:47]: "He goes, Zach, go make me a ham sandwich. But go light on the mustard."

Father Bill adds his own stories, blending the worlds of music and sports, illustrating the interconnectedness of iconic figures across different industries. These personal tales add depth to the conversation, portraying Zakk not just as a musician but as a relatable and down-to-earth individual.

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Current Projects and Future Plans

Zakk provides insights into his current endeavors, including his work with Black Label Society and other collaborative projects. He touches upon the challenges and rewards of modern music production, emphasizing a shift from traditional album releases to a more dynamic approach involving singles and digital engagement.

Zakk Wylde [28:38]: "But, like, in between that and then we just did the Berserkers fest and everything like that."

Additionally, he muses about potential future collaborations, expressing enthusiasm for blending different musical styles and exploring new creative territories.

Zakk Wylde [86:03]: "With all know, like you said, Traveling Wilbury's a doom. Or yourself get yourself in this."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with mutual expressions of respect and admiration between Billy Corgan and Zakk Wylde. They reflect on the resilience and dedication required to sustain a successful career in music, highlighting Zakk's unwavering commitment to his craft and his ability to honor past legends while forging his own path.

Father Bill [82:00]: "You chewed right back at it and built this thing with your own hands."

Notable Quotes:

• Zakk Wylde [00:14]: "And that's why we're meeting today, because we're gonna put those bands back together."
• Zakk Wylde [02:48]: "But for me, it was Tony Iommi, obviously, and then being Jimmy Page, you know."
• Zakk Wylde [08:21]: "Because if you do Harmonic Minor or this and that, it doesn't matter how fast you play it... I'm just doing pentatonic scales, but I'll pick them, you know, as opposed to just doing hammer ons and pull offs."
• Zakk Wylde [37:12]: "For extreme, they're all measured by what Pantera set."
• Zakk Wylde [43:48]: "He goes, Zach, just play with your heart and change your pants. Something smells in here."
• Zakk Wylde [46:47]: "He goes, Zach, go make me a ham sandwich. But go light on the mustard."
• Father Bill [84:32]: "I've never seen anyone with your level of attack. It blows my mind. I've never seen anyone play so aggressively and so clean."
• Father Bill [82:00]: "You chewed right back at it and built this thing with your own hands."

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive look into Zakk Wylde's life, blending technical discussions with personal narratives. Listeners gain a deeper appreciation for Zakk's artistry, his influences, and his enduring legacy in the rock and metal genres. The conversation serves both die-hard fans and newcomers, providing valuable insights into the making of a rock icon.

Transcript

[Zakk Wylde]

Zach, just. Just play with your heart. Change your pants. Something smells in here.

[Father Bill]

My high school band was named Hexen.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, nice.

[Father Bill]

So when you were in Stonehenge and Zyrus, I was in Hexen.

[Zakk Wylde]

Nice. We could have toured together back then. Oh, my God. And that's why we're meeting today. Yes, because we're gonna put those bands back together.

[Father Bill]

There you go.

[Zakk Wylde]

And do the tour. That nipple.

[Father Bill]

Well, thank you for being here. This is my big talk show.

[Zakk Wylde]

Thanks for having me, Father Bill.

[Father Bill]

I'm so excited to talk guitar with you. I'm a total nerd.

[Zakk Wylde]

I had to come down to the ultimate podcast over here.

[Father Bill]

I'm gonna. For full disclaimer. You did bring this ultimate warrior today, which is pretty cool.

[Zakk Wylde]

Just so you could have the. So we'd have the ultimate podcast today.

[Father Bill]

You know, legal disclaimer. If I get pseudo rules, I'm sending them to you. I'm sending them to celebrate. Pls. Llc, right?

[Zakk Wylde]

No. Well, it'll be the old.

[Father Bill]

What's your LLC called. It's got to be good.

[Zakk Wylde]

The Ultimate Lawsuit.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, the Ultimate Lawsuit.

[Zakk Wylde]

Okay.

[Father Bill]

You got to have a good LLC name somewhere.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, we'll figure something out.

[Father Bill]

So doing a little research on you. You're actually older than me, but not by much. Only a couple months.

[Zakk Wylde]

As my dad would always say to me, you're gaining. Okay, well, whatever. I turned another year.

[Father Bill]

He goes, you're born the same year. 67.

[Zakk Wylde]

67.

[Father Bill]

And so explain something to me, because I've been a fan of you ever since you showed up with Ozzy. And I was like, who's this guy? Right. But I always felt like I understood your playing. And I think we grew up in the same stew of influences, even though I took it one way.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, totally.

[Father Bill]

I totally get the way you play guitar. And I love the way you play guitar.

[Zakk Wylde]

I appreciate it, man. Right back at you, brother.

[Father Bill]

Thank you. But what's so cool is I feel like I really get it. I don't know if that makes sense. You know, I'm not saying, like, I just like the way you play. Like, I feel like I understand why you choose certain notes, why you play certain things.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, no, even when, you know, we were talking about, like, when you did the. You know, the interview. Remember what you did with Eddie Van Halen?

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean? And you were talking about, like, how you loved. You know, when we were talking about fair warning and stuff like that, because it was the darkest record or anything like that, which it was. You know what I Mean, but. I mean, they're all great, but I mean, you know, Fair Warning had its own identity as well. It's a lot darker than Left Turns. Left turn. Yeah, totally. But. But no, yeah. Cause we all grew up on, like you said, Eddie and Randy, Matthias Jabs and all, you know, that was the new breed coming in. George lynch, you know, who are some.

[Father Bill]

Of those 70s guys that, like, you.

[Zakk Wylde]

And I would know, obviously. I mean, for me, it was. It's whoever your favorite, you know, if you're a Black Sabbath fan, then it's Tony Iommi's your guy. So for me, it was Tony Iommi, obviously, and then being Jimmy Page, you know.

[Father Bill]

But do you like guys like Ronnie Montrose and craft stores?

[Zakk Wylde]

I found out. Obviously, you find out about a lot of the guys later on. My guitar teacher at the time when I first started was this guy named Leroy Wright. And Leroy was. He was like 10 years older than me, but he was a huge Hendrix guy. And he was the one that turned me on to Frank Marino and Robin Trower and, you know, and everything like that, which I would have, you know, at the time. I didn't know, you know, you know, Jimmy Hendrix or whatever. But then hearing Frank Marino and Robin Trower and everything like that. But then. But, you know, obviously the more you're learning guitar, you learn it from your favorite guys, which would be. Sabbath was my favorite band. So, you know, trying to learn every Black Sabbath song, but. But then, you know, the more you learn it, then you find it about. This guy's great. This guy's awesome. You know, Ronnie Montrose or any of the guys. Alvin Lee, you know what I mean? Albert Lee. Then your whole, you know, your world exists horizon opens up, you know, like, even with Saint Rose, with Randy. Yeah, you know, I remember, you know, then finding out that Mick Ronson was this guy, you know, Randy was like, mick Ronson's my guy. And then I remember seeing, you know, us being younger, we're going, oh, you got a Randy Rhodes haircut. And it's like, no, that's a MC Ronson haircut, you know? No, just saying. So it all goes, you know. So for a kid, when I'm coming in, it's like, oh, Zach Wilder. It's just like, yeah, well, Randy's his guy. So it's like, yeah, but Randy's guy is Mick Ronson, you know, So I.

[Father Bill]

Know you're a rocker, but your phone's on.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, it's dinging.

[Father Bill]

Oh, it's dinging.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, is it? Oh, is it making Noise.

[Father Bill]

This is an official podcast. You can't have any ding.

[Zakk Wylde]

Okay? We gotta keep it pro.

[Father Bill]

Gotta keep it pro.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, but no, but I just always thought it was like. It's so awesome how you just see the correlation between everything and you do research on the history. When we're talking about either wrestlers or bands and this and that, your favorite bands, and you go, oh, you really like them. Well, you gotta hear so and so, because they got a lot of stuff from them, you know, and it's like. Then you listen and you're like, oh, wow, I never knew about that. You know what I mean? So. Which is always awesome.

[Father Bill]

I thought what I really loved about your playing. And I guess I would have heard you sort of 88, 89 when you burst on. Yeah. It was like, wow, this guy has a kind of a 70s foundation, but he's playing different. Does it make sense to you, the way I'm putting it?

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, without a doubt. As far as like Frank Marino being like my. One of my favorite guys and obviously Randy and.

[Father Bill]

But usually when guys would play with those influences, they would just kind of sound like those guys. Somehow you sounded like you. You know, I could feel where you were coming from, but it felt like, wow, this guy's got a totally different take on it.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, you. But you know what was so funny coming when I first started playing with Oz, right? You know, here I am, 19, 20 years old, and it's just like, well, how am I gonna be Zach Watt? You know, like, how am I supposed to be me? Like, what's gonna be my sound or whatever. And then I'm just thinking to myself, I go, if you don't wanna sound like Yngwie, you know. Cause Yngwie was. Forget about it.

[Father Bill]

Oh, yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, as far as. Onto the show.

[Father Bill]

Did you see Yngwie like that though, when you first came to America? Did you see any of those tours?

[Zakk Wylde]

Put it this way, I remember when I first heard Steeler, there was lights out. Cause I was like so unhappy.

[Father Bill]

Me too. I had that album, I was like.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh my God, what am I doing it? I mean, I'm just saying, like, you know. Yeah. How like Jimi Hendrix, obviously it was the, you know, the massive meteor. And then you had, you know, then obviously King Edward was a second coming. You know what I mean? I'm just saying as far as like game changing meteor that just hit the planet. And then I think the last one was Yngwie. I mean, as much as, you know, we love, you know, with St. Rhodes, you know, you had Eddie and Randy and everything like that, you know, so it was like. But like, forget about when Ingba, because when, when Ed came out, that just changed everything where everyone was tapping the harmonics. That. And not only that, that ushered in the whole. The new new breed and a new era.

[Father Bill]

So, I mean, the new gunslinger.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, with, with Randy, with the, with the pointy guitars, the stripes on the guitars, the polka dots on the guitars, the paint jobs on the guitars. None of the, none of the, you know, between Beck, Clapton, Page, the Big Three, and then Tony Iommi and then Richie Blackmore and all the, all the guys that they got it from, none of the guys had like painted guitars or anything like that. You either played a Strat or Les Paul. You know, you had a cool looking guitar or whatever. But they were the. Eddie and the guys were the ones. The late 70s 80s guys were the ones that brought in the different shaped guitars. And not everyone was playing a Les Paul or a Strat. So it was like, what is a Jackson? I mean, you know, I remember years ago.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, right.

[Zakk Wylde]

People were like, what is. I've never even heard of that. Or, you know, or a Cheval. And Eddie, yeah, would just. Eddie would just have like parts of guitars together. Like, nobody even knew what he was playing.

[Father Bill]

Nobody even thought of doing that.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, because it wasn't a Fender. It was like, is that a. It looks like a Strat body. But what. You know, and then Eddie just tweaking all his guitars and everything. That was the new breed that was coming in. But no, I mean, for me, I was just like, well, if you don't want to sound like Yngwie, just get rid of harmonic minor and diminished. And it was like, all right, if you don't want to sound like Eddie, then get rid of the tapping and the harmonics and get rid of the whammy bar. And then it was just like. Just crossing off all the lists. Like, if you don't want to be compared to certain. Certain people.

[Father Bill]

I didn't know that about you, but that's pretty cool. That makes a certain sense.

[Zakk Wylde]

And then I was just like, well, what's left?

[Father Bill]

A lot of blues.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, I mean, everything was kind of. There's not much room left on the grocery list. And I was just like, well, I guess just pentatonic scales instead of three notes of scale like Aldemyola and Yin Bay and everything. And what was massively popular at that time. So it was just like, all right, well then I'll just do Pentatonic scales, but I'll pick them, you know, as opposed to just doing hammer ons and pull offs.

[Father Bill]

Sure. Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

So it was like, all right. So every time when I was going to write a solo, whether it's Miracle man or Crazy Train, I mean, Crazy Babies. And then everything that was on the record, Demon Alcohol, everything on your list, no Rest for the Wicked. And then no More Tears was next. But I mean, no more I see your time. The Rest for the Wicked. That first album, it was just like, I'll just base everything off a pentatonix. Like, you only have, like, those cooking shows when they go, you only have X amount of cooking. You know, I give you X. I.

[Father Bill]

Didn'T know that about you, but it makes total sense.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. Because I was just like, well, what am I going to do? If you do Harmonic Minor or this and that, it doesn't matter how fast you play it. Yeah, it's going to go, oh, wow, he sounds like a fast Yngwie, you know, or. Or if you do Taps, even faster than that event air, it's just like.

[Father Bill]

But did you go seeing they, like, around 84?

[Zakk Wylde]

I never saw Yngwie back then, you.

[Father Bill]

Know, at that time, I went when I was like, 17.

[Zakk Wylde]

Where'd you see him at?

[Father Bill]

Aragon Ballroom.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, wow.

[Father Bill]

Tallis was opening with Billy Sheen on bass, and it was the Rising Force tour with Jeff Scott soto singing in 84. 85.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

And so, you know, I'm a young shredder and it just blows my mind, you know what I mean? You know, drunk off his ass and he's laughing and he's, you know, he's like.

[Zakk Wylde]

No. Effortlessly effortless. I mean, because Yngbe always said it's just like. It's not just speed and it's just not. It's not jive. I mean, it's. He's speaking. No, I mean, it's musical.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, yeah, he's a great.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, everything he's playing and his feel, his vibrato, his timing, he's so ridiculous.

[Father Bill]

It's like. Like, it makes me laugh because he's just so. It's like. No, I saw you play on that. The guitar tour you guys would do.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, the Generation Ax thing.

[Father Bill]

I was at one of those shows, Dallas or something, and there's that. There was that bit where Steve Vai and Yngwie were. They were.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, they were doing Blackstar together, back and forth.

[Father Bill]

And Yngwie. I found it online. There's a clip of it. Yngwie did some run, like, low to high. It was so insane that Steve Vai.

[Zakk Wylde]

Literally went where Steve would do that, like, every night.

[Father Bill]

Okay. It worked for me because I was like, no. But I had to go find the lick because I. I thought maybe it was in my mind that it was that good and it was that good. It was like. It was like. Like a swimmer nailing a dive or something.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, Yngwie is that insanely good. But, you know, I mean, but talking about, like, even with the Generation Axe thing.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, because the older you get, you don't realize, you know, I remember seeing, like. Remember with the Les Paul tribute. I remember Eddie Van Halen was playing on there. David Gilmore was on there and all this stuff. And it was just. I mean, then you. You start to realize, like, all, like, what's David Gilmore gonna do after Eddie gets done shredding up there with the. Sitting him with the band? It's like all David Gilmore has to do is be David Gilmore.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, that's it.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, because Dave's gonna go up. Well, in fact, I'm not gonna try and sit up there and try and play as fast as Eddie. That's not my thing. No. Cause I mean, I'm just saying, like, we all love pizza. Just be whatever slice of pizza you are. Whether you're a margarita or if you're just a plain slice, or you're a mushroom slice, or you're a garlic slice, or you're a pepperoni or a meat lover slice. I'm just saying, you just go with your strengths. So I'm just saying, like, when I'm up there with. With the Generation Ax thing, you know, you have Yngwie, you have Stevie, you have Nuno, you have Tosin. When we walk in this, you know, I could be at sound, I just walk in the building, two seconds in. Whenever the guys pick up a guitar like Nuno, I could tell it's him immediately. You know, as soon as I hear his vibrato. I hear Steve's vibrato and then do one lick and just the tone of their guitars, you know, it's Steve. Yngwie picks up the guitar and. And he just. He doesn't have to do Harmonic Minority. He could play a pentatonic lick, a blues lick. Like he's playing from Purple Haze or something. And, you know, it's immediately Yngwie. And then Tosin just whips out just like three notes and you just go. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

That you have your own voice. You know what I mean? Like Bob Dylan. It doesn't matter whether, you know, Bob can sing as good as Michael Bolton. It doesn't. He has his own sound, you know, just like with Smashing Pumpkins and your vocals.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, I'm just saying, when the alternative thing was huge between you, Kurt Lane, Chris Cornell, like, soon as I hear, like, two notes of it, you know who's singing.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. It makes me proud when my kids, you know, I'm like little kids, and my song comes out of the car and they go, that's Daddy.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. They know my voice. Yeah. It's cool.

[Zakk Wylde]

Les Paul said that about Pat Martino one day, you know, and Pat's this legendary jazz and. But when Pat was young, when he was. He was playing in some club and Les saw him playing and he was just like, wow, that's amazing. You know, just technically what Pat could do and everything, and he just goes, but can your mom tell it's you on the radio?

[Father Bill]

Wow.

[Zakk Wylde]

Like, Les said that then all those years ago. But it really is. It really is the truth. It doesn't matter whether you have the. If you're the most technically amazing player or. It doesn't matter, you know, vocally or guitar playing wise or drumming wise.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, because when you hear Keith Moon and I hear John Bonham, it's two distinctly amazing guys, you know, that have their own voice or Neil Peart. Those three guys are completely different slices of pizza, mind you. All amazing slices of pizza. But I mean, it just depends on what mood you're in.

[Father Bill]

Are you. Are you a New York pizza guy?

[Zakk Wylde]

No. I do love pizza. Who doesn't? You know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

Well, I'm a vegan now, so I can't eat Chicago pizza anymore.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, well, it depends on whether you. We just stick a bunch of broccoli in there for you or some salad. You know what I mean? Whatever. So you'll be fine. We'll just take the meat out of it, you know.

[Father Bill]

All right, I gotta take you back to. I saw these names, and I gotta ask Stonehenge, and was it Zerus or Zyrus?

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, Stone. Well, Stonehenge was before Zyrus.

[Father Bill]

Right.

[Zakk Wylde]

But literally the name of the band was Stonehenge.

[Father Bill]

My high school band was named Hexen.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, nice.

[Father Bill]

So when you were in Stonehenge and Zyrus, I was in Hexen.

[Zakk Wylde]

Nice. We could have toured. Tour Together back then. Oh, my God. And that's why we're meeting today, because we're gonna put those bands back together.

[Father Bill]

There you go.

[Zakk Wylde]

And do the tour that never was. But I remember Stonehenge. We ended up. We had our manager at the time, our buddy, Mike Kallowitz. I still talk to Mike all the time. We talk how to chat all the time. But Mikey was our manager, and I remember him with my mom. They made up a contract, you know.

[Father Bill]

For like an appearance contract.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes. Like, we're gonna. We planted a Ketchum's kitchen, you know, in the kitchen, you know, I mean, at our buddy's house. And it's just. I remember the contract was for, like, you know, to provide money. The $40 was gonna provide money for the. For the PA and to pay the band.

[Father Bill]

Right.

[Zakk Wylde]

But I remember. And that's all that was on the contract that, you know, Kevin was gonna pay, you know, cover the $40.

[Father Bill]

Sure.

[Zakk Wylde]

And I remember Mike, he had the contract and a hatchet in the briefcase. So this was pre. This was pre Peter Grant reading Peter Grant's autobiography yet. But it was just so Mike already knew then, you know what I mean? So he had the contract, maybe a ham sandwich, and then this hatchet in the case. So just in case settlement didn't happen, you know, we could settle this thing. But it was just in Jackson, New Jersey. This is how you handle disputes.

[Father Bill]

No one messes with sports.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. Brookwood Barn Grill, where you could meet Half yard High High school graduating class would be there. But, I mean. But yeah, but Mike, I remember, brought the contract in one day, and we were going to play at Kevin's. And he goes, well, Kevin, you got the. The 40 bucks to pay the band? And he was like, well, Mike, I was just thinking, maybe, you know, I'll toss a hat around. I only got 20 bucks. I'll just toss a hat around at the end of the night and pay you guys at the end. He goes, he got the. You ain't got the 40 bucks? And he was like, I only got 20 now. And he goes, is he going for that? He just closes the briefcase. He goes, let's go. We're not doing a gig. And we all were walking out to Mike's car. Yeah. And we're going, but we want to play the show, you know? And he's just like, you'll never make any money with that attitude. And next thing you know, Kevin comes running out of the house. He's like, I got the extra 20 bucks. And it was just like, Why'd you have to do that, man? Yeah, yeah, no, but like. But that still goes on.

[Father Bill]

Oh yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

That's rockin roll to this day.

[Father Bill]

Yes.

[Zakk Wylde]

So no, nothing.

[Father Bill]

That's a wrestling too, by the way.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes, I agree. So nothing has changed since like 1983 when we were doing these shows.

[Father Bill]

So Stonehenge, was it originals or covers or both?

[Zakk Wylde]

We did all covers in that one. All covers. I mean, we were doing Bark at the Moon at that time. We may have been opening up with Bark at the Moon at Kevin's Kitchen. And then I remember we did. We played the Bobby Bush Demolition Fest. And I remember that was when this.

[Father Bill]

Is some New Jersey shade showing.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, it was awesome. Who her parents were sold the house. It was a bi level house, almost like the Brady Bunch kind of thing. And all I remember is like that movie Weird Science where half the high school showed up on the front lawn. Well, it was because her parents went to the Poconos and she was gonna have this big blowout and Stonehenge is gonna play Stonehenge. And we had the light show. And I remember Mr. Antion, Frank, his buddy, his dad was an electrician. We made our light show out of cans.

[Father Bill]

Bring back a lot of memories for me right here.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally. But we made the. It had the can, you know, we had the light trees. You know, you get at Home Depot, we just built the things in electrical trades. And it was this coffee cans where you could screw the light bulbs in. We spray painted the light, you know, whether there's a red one, a blue one, a yellow one, whatever. And we had it on the trees. And I remember Mr. Antion looks at it, he's like, boys, you're not using this thing, are you? And we were like, why? What's the matter with it? Mr. Anteon, we've been doing tons of shows with this with our little lighting rig. But you know, you turn the thing on so it looks all pro. I remember it was just. He was like, are you kidding me? You're not using this thing. We were like, what's the matter? He's like, anyone touch. All these wires are live. Anyone touches the wires.

[Father Bill]

Oh my God.

[Zakk Wylde]

So I'm just thinking between the amount of booze floating around at these high school parties that we're playing at, live wires and everything like that. Just the Animal House factor, the going on with these Stonehenge shows. But I remember when we did Bobby Bush's house, her parents were gone. Torrential downpour that night. And I remember everyone just parked up on the Lawn parked up out front of the house. People from other. From Freehold, Lakewood, all outside communities coming into Jackson to go to this party. People I've never even seen before. And I remember we opened up with Bark at the Moon. And I remember. All I remember is just. I mean, the house was packed. And I remember going up the stairway, people were just lined up on the stairs, getting hammered, smoking cigarettes, putting them out in the carpet of the house. And I'm just saying, now that you're a homeowner, there's a whole different outlook in view. Well, put it this way, this house between the sliding closet doors, demolishing. I could make a comedy movie out of this whole thing, but it was just like something out of Weird Science at the end when the guy's rolling in with the motorcycles, demolishing the house completely. No, no cops even showed up at this thing. But it was when we were loading out the bill, me and you would have been looking at the floor going, yeah, we gotta get outta here now, man. I mean, holes in the walls. And I remember somebody wrote on the wall, stonehenge was here. It's like, you killed. Wow.

[Father Bill]

You killed.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes. Oh, yeah, we killed. Bobby's chances of ever having another party at Bobby.

[Father Bill]

So here's my same story back high school party. They'd cover the entire first floor of the house in plastic trash bags in anticipation of the beer party to come.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, at least they were being cautious rockers.

[Father Bill]

Yes. I'm standing because there's so many people in the room. I'm standing pressed against my sun bass stack because I want more volume. So I'm playing through a bass amp.

[Zakk Wylde]

Of course.

[Father Bill]

We're playing Stranglehold by New Gen. Of course. I'm literally in the opening part of the song. You know, the whole bit. Cops walk in, cop walks to me and does one of these. I stop. He goes, you guys gotta quit. I go, but look at all these people. He goes, you want to go to jail?

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, jail is a good.

[Father Bill]

I love Nugent, but not that bad.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, good for jail is so.

[Father Bill]

We didn't even make it through. We didn't even get to the vocal.

[Zakk Wylde]

Wow. It didn't even get that far.

[Father Bill]

That was it. Okay.

[Zakk Wylde]

And then everyone proceeded to demolish the house.

[Father Bill]

I got out. I was so disappointed. I got out. I never saw the rest of the party. You and me have a great love and respect for Sabbath, but, like, beyond Sabbath. Can you just pick, like, one band that I might be surprised by that you were really influenced by?

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, I mean, it depends. I mean, you know, it's just like.

[Father Bill]

I know you have a lot of influences.

[Zakk Wylde]

Elton John, obviously, was the first thing that I was the power of music. I remember seeing Elton John on the Sonny and Cher show, and he was playing Lucy in the sky with Diamonds. And, I mean, at that time, I didn't even know it was a Beatles song. I'm just going, I just know him. And so it's like crazy. Whenever I YouTube up, you know, like, Elton John, Sonny and Cher show, it's just like you get, you know, the power music or movies, you know, that you saw when you were kids.

[Father Bill]

So there would have been, like, you about 74, five.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

Seven, eight years old. You're watching this legend, but you don't know he's the legend. No, he's doing a Beatles song. You don't know.

[Zakk Wylde]

It's a Beatles song that had Sonny and Cher on.

[Father Bill]

Whatever this is. Is.

[Zakk Wylde]

But. Yes, but was. What's kind of funny how you're all of us, you know, your introduction to certain songs. You know, like, when people go, why does Hollywood regurgitate? You know, they make remake movies. I go, because for the next generation, they've never seen the Exorcist.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

So if they're gonna remake any classic movies, it's because they've never seen it, you know? Cause I mean, like, so I've never even heard, you know. So that was like my first introduction. I remember my buddy Scott, his older brothers. I was like, oh, I heard this, you know, this amazing song by this guy Elton John. It's so awesome. They were like, lucy in the sky with Diamonds. They go, lucy in the sky with Diamonds. An Elton John song. That's a Beatles song, you know. And then they just beat me profusely out in the garage of the house. And then after that, we went and saw James Bond, Moonraker. And I was like, man, we just saw James Bond. That was amazing. And I was like, roger Moore is amazing. Roger Moore, he's not James Bond. Sean Connor, he's James. So I got beat up again. Profusely. But, like you said, was my introduction to those songs.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, or movies or whatever, you know, so it's just like, you know, it just transcends. But it's just like. But, yeah, but I remember it was so funny seeing I was with Oz and mom with Mrs. O. Me and Barb got. My wife got. We got remarried for, like, the 428th time in Vegas. Right. We all went and saw Elton John when he was doing his residency thing. So we were all there and mom got us because she's friends with Elton John. So she's. I never met him before. So I had my book when I was like 8 years old. And I have, like. I still have the Elton John wall poster and everything like that. But I had. I brought this book I've had since I've been 8 years old. You know, I mean, so I got it for Christmas or whatever and we went back and it was amazing because I'm sitting here getting a picture. I got a picture. Oz is on one side and Elton John's on the other. It's like just Bizarro Land. Like my two biggest musical influences. Pretty mind blowing.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. Well, I know you're a song guy. Meaning when I listen to your music, I know you love song. Not every shredder loves song. Some shredders just wait to get.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, no, but it is kind of funny because a lot of my buddies are. Anybody that I know that's shredders is everyone either loves. Everyone loves great music. I'm just saying, you know, whether it's yacht rock or we're listening to new wave essentials or whatever, it's just like. Yeah, as much as. No, it is crazy. I mean, I'm just saying. But look at Father Steve with Steve vai.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

One of Steve's basiest favorite artists is Tom Waits. And you would never get that.

[Father Bill]

Never guessed that from.

[Zakk Wylde]

If you were talking about Steve, you would figure Steve, like one of his favorite artists would be John McLaughlin or Alan Holdsworth or some insane guitar player. Right. And so it's just like Steve's like, oh, no way. He's like, if I was a desert island guy, Tom Waits all day long. Like that's. What's that? And so trying to put Tom Waits with Steve's insane guitar playing.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

So it's beautiful that I think you're right because what you're reminding me is that most great musicians love great music.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

It's probably got. There's some connection there between their love of music and just because they had sort of find their own personality in it. Like you were saying, like, it's not that you didn't love Yngwie. You're like, I don't want to sound like Yngwie. You know what I mean?

[Zakk Wylde]

No, totally. I mean like Yngwie. And even being around Yngwie, he loves Keith Richards, he loves the Stones, he loves everything. You know what I mean? So it's not that Yngwie's just. And I mean, obviously his love for classical music and Bach and everything like that, it was just like. I mean, he loves that style.

[Father Bill]

Were you like me? Were you trying to look up who the hell is Paganini? Were you in that face? Well, obviously, remember, you'd read, like, in the magazine and be like, paganini, who the fuck's no.

[Zakk Wylde]

Without it. But that's what I'm saying. That's how you discover all these amazing guys. I mean, like, put it this way, we was talking about the last meteor to hit the hit the Earth. I mean, as far as guitar impact, yeah, it was just like Derek Srinian, who, you know, Derek played with Dream Theater and Derek. I mean, you could Google up Derek playing Spanish Fly on the piano. Right? I mean, Derek's a whole nother level, but it's just like, even Derek was saying when he was at Berkeley, because him and J.D. both went to Berkeley. J.D. who plays in black label, so. But when Yngwie hit, they were opening up wards in Berkeley, you know, classical awards, because of Yngwie's impact.

[Father Bill]

Oh, interesting.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean? Like, guitar studies were all these Bach studies and Vivaldi, Paganini. And just because of his explosion on the scene and what he. Because he made it, everyone wanted to learn it.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, yeah. You know, so I want to jump into your recent stuff. I know you put out a song recently, Gallows.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. While we were getting ready to do. Oh, it's just so weird right now because.

[Father Bill]

Is that because of the Pantera thing?

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, no, I mean, what we're doing, obviously the Pantera celebration, which is a blast, and we're all having a great time and honoring Dime and Vinnie every night. And, you know, Phil and Rex, this amazing thing that they created that just touched so many people. So, I mean, we're all having a blast out on that because with the crew and everybody, it's just like one gigantic family. So we're having a great time out on that. But, like, in between that and then we just did the Berserkers fest and everything like that. So any anytimes in between and the Zach Sabbath thing and all this other stuff, it's just like between cleaning the dog run, doing dishes, laundry, whatever time. And, yeah, bringing Sabbath page to school or whatever. Whatever time we empty time we have in there, it just will go into Black Vatican and track some new ideas. So. But it's a weird thing because, I mean, the old model of making, you know, you make a record, and we put it out.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

And you promote it. Yeah. It's like you almost kind of just. You could just put singles out.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

Because it's just like, when you release a record, it just. They could just. As soon as it goes out, it's all there anyways, you know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

So it's just a weird, like that, you know, nobody uses rotary phones anymore. You know what I mean? Because everyone has cell phones. It's just like. And there's no payphones anywhere.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean? Because back in the day, you'd have to pull over at a truck stop to call home. You know what I mean? So. And it's just like, we'd be walking around going. We'd go to a 7 11. I go, Bill, do you notice something? Right? He goes, yeah, there's no payphones. I go, yeah, they're gone.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, they're gone. I do want to talk about Black label, but I want to start with Pantera. Cause obviously, you've been doing this touring. It's hard. I was around that band a lot in the 90s. You probably don't know that, but. So I got to know Dime a bit and got to see him play live 20 times. And I hope you take this as a compliment, because I mean it as a very respectful compliment. I heard. You know, because we're in the biz, you start hearing rumblings that you guys were going to do something.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

You know, six, nine months before it happened. And, you know, of course, the first question people ask, well, who's gonna play guitar? And the minute I heard it was your name, I was like, oh, that's definitely gonna work.

[Zakk Wylde]

I appreciate it, man.

[Father Bill]

So I'm glad you take that as a compliment, because you're one of the only guys on the planet I think could both honor Dime and play the music. Does it make sense the way I put it?

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, I mean, my whole thing is, like, whenever anybody asked me, like, when it was all this is when Vinnie was still alive, it was just like, you know, there was always one. Hey, Zach, man, if the fellas ever do it or whatever, did a reunion, you know, to celebrate Dime and everything like that, would. Would you be. I go, of course I would. It's just like, you know, I remember Rob Halford. You know, we were doing. Opening for Judas Priest over in Europe on some of the shows and. Or. No, down in. When we were down in South America when we first started doing it. And Rob was like, zach, this is a real beautiful thing that you guys are doing. And I was like, thanks, Robert. He just goes. I said it wasn't a matter of if I'll do it, it's when I'll do it. Because I just equate it to, like, with Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton, like, with their relationship. If Mitch and Noel would have said, eric, we want to go celebrate Jimmy, would you sing and play Jimmy's stuff?

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

How? Of course Eric Clapton's gonna say yes.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, I get that.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, he was there. You know, if he laid, you know, I laid Dime, the rest as a pallbearer. So, like, what do you think I'm gonna do? He's my buddy.

[Father Bill]

But, you know, we live in this complicated world where people do silly things, say silly stuff. So the other reason I thought it was gonna work is you have so much respect from people. As a musician, it registered in my mind that, like, if anybody was going to stand there and sort of navigate it, it was you. I literally can't think of anybody else that could be in that spot.

[Zakk Wylde]

I think about it, I appreciate it. No, but I mean, I just always look at it like, if Dime and Vinnie were at the soundboard, and we go, we got you guys an early Christmas present. You know what I mean? They were like, all right, man. Because, you know, the guys were always about having a good time. Everyone partying and just barbecuing and whatever. And they go, check this out. We got a little something for you. And like, all of a sudden, the guys are just sitting out at the front of the house or whatever, just. And then all of a sudden, the curtain drops and it's just, oh, no, no, no. You know, we New level. And the kabuki comes down and it's me, Charlie, Phil and Rex. And like, you know, Zach and Charlie wanted to get you, you know, an early birthday present or whatever. And they'd be going, I can't believe these jackasses are playing on, you know, Because, I mean, they'd be like, I'm just saying me. If it was Dime doing it, you know, Dime and Vinnie doing it up there with me and Charlie playing either, you know, Ozzy Anthrax songs or Black Label, whatever, It'd just be like, me and Charlie would be, like, crying, laughing, you know, and just like, watching Dime doing the solo War Tears or whatever, it would sound like Dime playing it regardless. Cause he's not going to escape that. Dime could play Eruption and it's gonna sound. You could listen to it and go, yeah, it sounds like Dime playing Eruption. Even if it's note for note, is this gonna sound like Dime? Cause of his touch and his feel. So just like when Randy Rhodes is playing Paranoid, it sounds like Randy Rhodes playing Paranoid. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

So. But no, I just always picture them every night. You know what I mean? Just, like, I just picture them either, you know? Cause especially when Reed is over there on the side of the stage and everything like that, it's just like. Yeah, they would. They'd be. Especially those two guys, you know, because they. They just love life so much.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. One of my favorite memories of Dime is they're playing the Aragon Ballroom. And I'm sure you played there many times, right? You must have.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, totally.

[Father Bill]

So, you know, there's those, like. It's the old school thing where there's, like the. The balcony, you know, like the old opera singer spot.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally.

[Father Bill]

So I was up there and, you know, like, typical them, they had me drinking. Whatever the hell. Yeah, whatever the hell they drank before shows.

[Zakk Wylde]

And I'm not a drinker with a spare liver and pancreas on ice.

[Father Bill]

So I'm up there, I'm feeling a little wobbly, and I don't know what the hell they were playing. And Dime spots me, and, like, he would. He locks eyes with me, and for a minute, he's just looking at me, and he's playing the craziest.

[Zakk Wylde]

Just shredding.

[Father Bill]

Doesn't look at the guitar at all. And he's looking at me like that thing he would do, like. Yeah. And I'm like. Like, for a minute, he's just playing. I'm like, why are you playing for me, motherfucker? But that's the way he was, right?

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally.

[Father Bill]

It's like, I know you're watching me.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally, man. He was the best, without a doubt.

[Father Bill]

So it's beautiful what you're doing. I'm glad to see it because, you know, you'd heard about it through the years, and even the weirdness with the fans and Phil, I'm glad that's all kind of seems to be done.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, well, I just think. I mean, like, anyone that comes and sees it, it's just. I mean, it's. It is what it is. It's a beautiful tribute to the guys, and it really is pretty amazing. Like, every night, you know, Phil just always asks, he's like, well, how many people you know, saw Pantera back in the day? And then you'll have, obviously, the Pantera faithful that were like, you know, Zach, I seen him. I seen Dime and Vinnie and the fellas when you Know, Phil and Rex, when there was like, eight people in the club or whatever, you know, and then until when the guys exploded and whatever. So it was just. You have the Pantera faithful, and he's like, all right, how many people. This is their first time ever hearing these songs live. I'd have to say it's either 75%, I mean, like, of the younger kids.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, well, that's. But that's. It's about the.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. Like, my Uncle Zach took me. You know, my Uncle Zach always told me about the legend of Pantera and, you know, how great they were. And it was just like this force to be reckoned with. And it's just like, so you have, you know, so now I'm bringing my nephews who are old enough to see it now, you know, because they were five years old when Pantera, when it ended.

[Father Bill]

Great. Great songs, too. Great.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. Well, that's what I always say. What separates. Well, what separated Sabbath from everything. It's not because it's heavy.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

It's because it's great songs. I mean, you know, so it's just like with our Pantera, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I always. You know, I always say Pantera is in their genre of extreme metal. They are the gold standard of where everything. Just like how Sabbath and Zeppelin, the Stones, the Beatles are the. The gold standard.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

For what? You know, so if it's Southern rock bands, it's. The Allman Brothers and Skynyrd are the gold standard of that style of music. So, I mean, with. With extreme, they're all measured by what Pantera set.

[Father Bill]

I think I tell this story somewhere else, but I'll tell you to you, because you probably don't know, it's. But I was. I was backstage with them, and it was when Metallic was kind of having trouble somewhere in the 90s, you know, like, fans didn't like the record. There's.

[Zakk Wylde]

I don't remember navigating through the crazy world, whatever.

[Father Bill]

It was just those weird years where they were kind of figuring out what became Metallica 2.0 or whatever. And, you know, the guys in Pantera, being fans, were kind of bitching about Metallica, you know, I mean, they were just being how they were. You know, they're just drunk rednecks, whatever. You know what I mean? Whatever. It's just the way they were. And I knew him well enough to.

[Zakk Wylde]

Fellas having a good time?

[Father Bill]

Sure. So they're going on about Metallica, and I just. You know, again, I knew him enough to. I'D heard enough. And I said, shut the up. And they all looked at me like, what'd you just say to us? And I said, you're the best metal band in the world right now. You're the best metal band in the world. They'll be fine. Worry about Pantera. And they were all like. They wanted to argue with me, but they were like, he just gave us a compliment. So that's my fun days.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, but that happens with everybody, whether it be Zeppelin is so huge or whatever, you know, the other guy.

[Father Bill]

Comes from a place to love. Because if you love the band, you're.

[Zakk Wylde]

Like, yeah, you wouldn't be concerned with them.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally, man.

[Father Bill]

One quick, funny thing. First time I ever heard of Pantera, we were playing 7th street entry, if you ever played there. That's. It's the side club in Minneapolis. There's the first.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, yeah. Where all the Prince.

[Father Bill]

Yes, but it's the side club. It's. It holds like 300 people.

[Zakk Wylde]

Gotcha.

[Father Bill]

So we were in indie band in the 80s, you know, we'd go play there.

[Zakk Wylde]

Gotcha.

[Father Bill]

And we were in there one night and this guy goes, were here last night. You gotta hear. This is the sound guy. I don't even know the guy. He goes, this band that was here last night, Pantera. What's Pantera? And he holds up the flyer and it's. When they were doing. They were like, oh, the metal. Like the big hair. Pantera.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally. Yeah.

[Father Bill]

And he was like, I never heard a band like this in my life.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, the intense.

[Father Bill]

You know, you just hear this name and it just lays there for years, like Pantera. And then suddenly they burst on the.

[Zakk Wylde]

Scene whenever, like the warrior, you hear the dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Him running out to the ring.

[Father Bill]

There you go, shaking the robes. See, you're smart. It all goes back to wrestling.

[Zakk Wylde]

So it was that type of impact.

[Father Bill]

I want to ask you a little bit, because I ran into Vinnie a lot in those years after diamond passed away, and I know you saw him, too. So I feel it's worth talking about Vinnie because that it was really hard to see how brokenhearted he was. It's not that he wasn't trying to move on with his life, you know, Vinnie was Vinny.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

He was always going to be a party wherever Vinny was.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, well, you never. You never move on from that, you know?

[Father Bill]

So how did you. As a friend or a compatriot, you.

[Zakk Wylde]

Have to carry on. But, you know, you never.

[Father Bill]

But how did you. How'd you perceive that at the time.

[Zakk Wylde]

Like, you know, with Vin, obviously, you know, as friends, you all support each other, so. But it was just. No, I remember when Vin. You know, but. Yeah, it's a weird thing, you know, but that's when you see who your real friends are and everything, you know? Cause, I mean, between Bride Dog and all the guys in his community, and then, you know, when he started the thing with the Hell yeah guys, all the fellas in that camp and the crew and everything like that, so would always be, you know, around Vin and everything like that. So, I mean, but as far as I always tell everybody, if you ever want to honor Dime and Vinnie, it's. It was their love of life, you know, because, Vinnie, when we were doing the Hell yeah tour, we were doing the Megadeth tour. So it was. It was Megadeth when Father Dave was, you know, when Disturbed was on hiatus and he was doing his solo thing at the time device. And then it was Hell yeah. And then Black Label, we were all rolling together. I remember Vinnie got tickets for me and Phil, who rolls with Black Label. He got us tickets because we're big New York Giant guys. And Vinnie being a huge Dallas Cowboy guy, so he got tickets. He's like, all right, next season, we're all going to see the Cowboys and the Giants. So Vinnie got tickets for that. Obviously, the massive blowout at Vinnie's house. And then we all go to the game. But it was just. But yeah, Vinnie. And then when we. Even when we were doing that tour, it was just the way Pantera rolled. It just carried on with that. I mean, it's like every day, massive spread after the gig. You know, when there was loadout going on, tent. Would it be Van Halen cranking, Led Zeppelin cranking, Sabbath cranking. I mean, everything. It would just. And just a massive spread of food, you know, with ribs and everything like that and stuff. And then we'd have to get you your vegan pie. You know what I mean? We'd have to.

[Father Bill]

Thank you.

[Zakk Wylde]

Exactly.

[Father Bill]

I can almost hear Vinnie and Dime making fun of me, but they would.

[Zakk Wylde]

Have said, we made sure we got you vegan. You know, they would have got you the vegan dish.

[Father Bill]

Absolutely. I want to jump in the Ozzy years because, you know, you were how old when you tried out for Ozzy?

[Zakk Wylde]

I was, what, 19 or right before? Yeah, 20 years old.

[Father Bill]

It strikes me because not only, obviously you got the gig, but you immediately jump into his world and you start contributing. You take him in this different.

[Zakk Wylde]

It was a weird Thing. Cause, I mean, you know, I remember when I was there at the audition, it was kind of funny because all.

[Father Bill]

The other guys, they fly out from, like. They fly you out?

[Zakk Wylde]

They flew me out, yeah. From New Jersey out to la. Right. So I'd never been.

[Father Bill]

They fly you coach or first class.

[Zakk Wylde]

I was in luggage, you know.

[Father Bill]

Exactly.

[Zakk Wylde]

Because they didn't know whether exactly or not.

[Father Bill]

Sharon does watch her pennies.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, mom doesn't skimp, though. You know, she takes care of everybody. But the whole thing is, I came out and I remember. But, you know, some of the guys that were auditioning, it was so weird because everybody was talking about, you know, I hear the gig pays well. You know, it's a good opportunity or whatever, career opportunity. And all I was thinking is, you know, here I am, I've been wearing a Yankee Jer. You know, I'm a fan of the Yankees. Like, to me, that that jersey is sacred ground, you know, to put Yankee pinstripes on. And, you know, my hero's Thurman Munson. I'm a catcher. And now I'm standing in the same spot where Thurman Munson stood.

[Father Bill]

I get it.

[Zakk Wylde]

So for me, that's how sacred it is.

[Father Bill]

I get it.

[Zakk Wylde]

To me.

[Father Bill]

So as a Sabbath guy.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

Like, for everybody else, and Ozzy with Rant. I mean, come on.

[Zakk Wylde]

But a lot of other people, they were just like, yeah, whatever, you know, take it or leave it. I think it's a good paying gig.

[Father Bill]

Well, to make you laugh real quick, we just tried out. We. We needed a guitar player, so we said, we'll take anybody. We got 10,000 people submitted to be our new guitar player. And. And, you know, you go through the list and you pick people who got a little bit of a resume, and you could just see people coming through the door. It's just a gig. And you're like, this is. Yeah, this my life.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, I mean, like that, you know, somebody. Yeah. If they grew up loving the Oakland Raiders and now they're an Oakland Raider, you know, so it's just.

[Father Bill]

You could just tell some people it was just another gig. It was weird to me, it was like, where's your heart in this? Like. Like, if you don't like my music, you probably shouldn't be here. You know what I mean? It's like without a doubt. Like, what is that? So I get it. Like, you as a fan of particular Sabbath, you must have been like, oh, my gosh.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, I was just hoping to get an autograph and a picture with Ozzy I can't even believe this is happening. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was just.

[Father Bill]

So did you audition with the band? Like, who was the band?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, I played with. Randy. Castillo was there. And Phil. Susan and Phil.

[Father Bill]

I hung out with Randy a couple times. What a lovely guy.

[Zakk Wylde]

Amazing. Randy was awesome. Phil's a great guy, too. I mean, I hung out with. They made me feel real comfortable. And they were like, yeah, Zach, why don't we do Suicide Solution? We'll do Crazy Train, Bark at the Moon or whatever, you know, I don't know. And I was like, yeah, let's do it.

[Father Bill]

Any singing or you just. The band played instrumental?

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I was just playing. You know, Oz wasn't there yet, and then they had me come back the next day, and that's when I met Ozzy. And, you know, Oz was like, zuck, just. Just play with your heart and change your pants. Something smells in here. It was after I crapped my pants. And then, you know, and then Oz goes. And then, zach, go make me a ham sandwich. But go light on the mustard. The Coleman's is a very powerful mustard. It'll overpower the sandwich. So ever since then, I've been making ham sandwiches for the boss, I always say. And going light on the Coleman's. Yeah.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

But, I mean. No, but he just. Oz was super cool, and everything was great. And then, you know, we. But it was so funny because Ozzy had said to me, he goes, have I met you before? And I was like, unless Oz saw me, you know, when? On the Bark of the Moon tour, when Motley Crue opened up for him when we saw him at either. At the Garden or the Spectrum. And it was just like. And Oz saw us going nuts under the mezzanine level or whatever. Maybe that's the only place you could have seen me. But he was just like, no, I seen you somewhere before. Where? And Oz goes, I know where I've seen you. He goes, Because Oz never went through any of the tapes. He'd just be like, billy, Zach, sort out the guitar, you know, and when you get down to the. The. The final guys, I'll come down and say hi.

[Father Bill]

Sure.

[Zakk Wylde]

So. But I guess, you know, my sister took a Polaroid of me on my mom and dad's porch, right? And Ozzy said he looked at it, and he goes, oh, look at this little kid. He must really love Randy Rhodes. Which we do still do. Always will, but. Yeah, but he was just like, that's. I guess that's. Ozzy goes, now I remember where I saw you. Because that was the only picture of, you know, of all the cassettes that I actually took a look at. Cause we're sitting on the kitchen counter.

[Father Bill]

In the house, like, walking by.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. He goes, oh, look at this kid. Must really love Andy Rhodes. He goes, I didn't think anything of it. And then there you are. So that's where I remember seeing you.

[Father Bill]

So you step into this crazy world, Aussie land, you know.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, put it this way. When I first joined the band, right, it was just like. I remember going. Obviously, when we were in England and we started writing, and nobody would want to hang with Oz, because I was the only one that wanted to hang with him and drink. So. And that's why mom eventually started calling us the Gruesome Twosome, right? So, you know, like, I remember Bobby Thompson, God bless his soul. Bobby had known Ozzy since, like. Cause he was working with Nazareth back in the 70s and knew Ozzy from Sabbath. And you know how everybody knows everybody, especially in England. Yeah, and everybody knows everybody. And then they, you know, they were working with, you know, if they were working with Alice in Chains, now they're out with, you know, Smashing Pumpkins, then they're out with Black Label, then they're out with, you know, Ozzy. And everybody's. All the crew guys are in. Knows everybody. So they're in different camps. So he started working with Oz when Oz started with Randy and playing the clubs and doing everything like that. So then he was. Now he's talking with me and I'm drinking with the boss. And he goes, zachy, Zacky, you don't wanna. You don't wanna go drinking with Oz. I go, but I like drinking with Oz. He goes, zachie, you don't wanna get into the Web. Stay out of the web. He said. Because basically what Oz would do is just go. You know, mom would always go like, who are you out drinking? Well, I was out drinking with Billy last night and Zachie and Bobby, you know, so then he'd throw everybody under the bus. That's your fault. So Bobby's saying, stay out of the web. But I never got out of the web. I would always stay with Oz. And we'd go drinking all the time. But. Yeah, but it was pretty hilarious, though, man. But mom called up Barbara Ann, my girlfriend at the time. My wife now, right? And he goes, barbara Ann, can I. Can I speak with you? And Barb's like, why, of course, Mrs. Osborne. He goes, does. Does Zachie have a drinking problem? And she goes, oh, no, Zach drinks milk and stuff. He goes, well, he does now.

[Father Bill]

Oh, my God.

[Zakk Wylde]

But anyways, yeah, so whereas my other friends, all my buddies went to college, I went to Ozzy Osbourne University, where I graduated in cocktails and the art of drinking. You know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

Were you. Because I, you know, I've been around Ozzy a few times and worked with Tony a bit. It's like, it's hard not to ask them the 8,000 questions that you. I met. I know you know him for so long now, it wouldn't matter. But when you're first starting with somebody, did you resist the temptation or did you want to jump in?

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, no, I jumped right in.

[Father Bill]

I love it.

[Zakk Wylde]

There was no.

[Father Bill]

I love it.

[Zakk Wylde]

No resistance.

[Father Bill]

Were you doing like, you know, on Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath, Were you doing that stuff?

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, no. As far as. Yeah. Oswald and Nas would tell me all the stories. So, like, here I am, like, mega super fan of Sat and. Cause Sabbath's my favorite band. And then him starting with Randy, and then I love Jake. And then, I mean, just his always solo stuff. And now I'm in the band. Like me playing with the Yankees, and I get a chance to talk with Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle and Lou Gehrig and Yogi Berra and hear all these insane stories and Billy Martin. You know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

It's just like, did you ever get to. In the old Yankee Stadium, did you ever get to go into that locker room?

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I've never toured, you know, the.

[Father Bill]

Old one before they tore it.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, but they still had Thurman's.

[Father Bill]

Got a Thurman's locker room. Got a quick story for you. So I'm buddies with David Wells, the great.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, Dave's great.

[Father Bill]

I'm sure you've hung with Dave. So Dave and I were hanging out in New York somewhere when he was pitching for the Yankees, and he left me tickets to a playoff game. So I end up sitting next to Mrs. Chambliss, Chris Chambliss, the former Yankee, and very nice. And so I watched the game and then Dave said after the game, go here. You know, go stand there. Family area. So I'm standing there, and here comes Joe Torrey. Wants to talk to me, recognized me, shook my hand. I'm like, oh, my God. Because I saw Joe Torre play when he was with the mets in like 75 or something, right? It's like, oh, my God, it's Joe Torre. So I'm standing there and Mr. Torrey said to me something like, you waiting for somebody? And I Said, well, I think somebody's supposed to come get me. He goes, oh, yeah, Just stay here. Somebody will come get you. So he leaves, and somebody comes, billy, follow me, Dave. Da, da, da. So they take me down into the bowels. I don't know. I have no idea where I'm going. Turn left. Turn right. Turn left. Turn right. Open the door. Now I'm in the Yankees clubhouse.

[Zakk Wylde]

Wow. I'm like, yeah, from the original.

[Father Bill]

And by the way, I know enough about sports teams. It's like, be careful. If you want to go in a clubhouse, you know what I mean? You gotta.

[Zakk Wylde]

It's their sacred ground.

[Father Bill]

It's their space. Right?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

So now I'm talking to David Cohn, you know, who was the great center fielder during those years?

[Zakk Wylde]

Bernie Williams.

[Father Bill]

Bernie talking to Bernie. Everyone's being super nice. You know what I mean? Harold Jackson. Harold used to play for Astros. He was a commentator at the time. I know. You know, I'm talking about Harold Reynolds. Harold Reynolds, at that point, he's a reporter for espn. He turns and goes, what the hell you doing here? I'm like, I don't know. Somebody brought me in here.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

So. Because David, I think, won the game.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yankees just signed me. I'm sorry.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, I am. I'm a lefty.

[Zakk Wylde]

Exactly.

[Father Bill]

I got a good. I got a good curveball. Anyway, finish the story. So Dave's got to go do post media because he won the game or something. So I'm like, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, you know, like, you're a little kid. Like, I don't know where to go. So somebody goes, being respectful.

[Zakk Wylde]

Just chill.

[Father Bill]

Absolutely. I know, I know. And Dave's like, no, just stay there. You know how he is.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

Who cares? Just stay there.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally.

[Father Bill]

Right? So somebody comes over and says.

[Zakk Wylde]

Go.

[Father Bill]

In there and have some food. They had a little catering area. It's, like, smaller than this area we're in right now. So I go in there. There's nobody in there. And it's obviously the player's food, but. And the guy who brought me was like a staffer. He goes, go ahead and have some food. It's all good. So, you know, I get some Mustachioli, and this is when I wasn't vegan, you know, And I make my little plate, and I'm standing there eating, and I feel a tap on my shoulder, and I turn around, it's George Steinbrenner.

[Zakk Wylde]

Wow.

[Father Bill]

And I go. And I'm expecting him to rip me apart. Who the hell Are you. What are you doing here? He goes, you like the Yankees? And I. I mean, I know who he is. Right?

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally.

[Father Bill]

And I go. I go, honestly, I'm a Cubs guy. And he goes, but do you like the Yankees? I go, love the Yankees. He goes, is the food good? I'm like, yeah, it's great. He goes, have a great time. Love you. To see you here.

[Zakk Wylde]

Wow.

[Father Bill]

Sounds good with the boss.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, totally.

[Father Bill]

So that's.

[Zakk Wylde]

That's great.

[Father Bill]

I mean, when you're standing there where Ruth stood and.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, totally.

[Father Bill]

Lou Gehrig. Are you kidding?

[Zakk Wylde]

Without a doubt.

[Father Bill]

As a baseball fan, I get chills just telling you.

[Zakk Wylde]

It's like, oh, totally.

[Father Bill]

It's cool.

[Zakk Wylde]

That's why it is pretty great. That's why I was saying it is pretty crazy, you know? I mean, I love new stadiums, but, like, I just hope they never tear Fenway down. Wrigley.

[Father Bill]

We just played Fenway with Green Day and Wrigley. Yeah, dude. I mean, come on.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, amazing. But what I'm saying is, like, the same thing. They tore Yankee Stadium down. And I'm saying, like, if they build a new Fenway park, you know, and it's. And it's bigger and it's better and more modern, you know, stuff and everything like that. It's just like. Yeah, but it's. I mean, something has to be said, you know? Cause in Vegas, too, they just knock everything down. No, but nothing. Has anything.

[Father Bill]

Nothing sacred in Vegas, for sure.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. Well, you would think of the stands, like, if we owned it. I would keep it exactly the way it was. Frank was here when Frank and the fellas were there, when the Rat Pack was there, and literally leave the hotel the way it was. And the suites the way they were. The Sammy suite, the Frank Suite, the Dean and everything like that. And literally the TVs, everything. Maybe change the carpeting. So the carpeting's fresh or whatever, but exact same carpeting. So it's literally a time warp. And then build onto the hotel with the modern stuff. So, you know, people could go, oh, man. Did you stay in the original or.

[Father Bill]

Stay back, Frank? Yeah. Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean? And it would be. You know, we charge a ton for the evening that you spend in the Frank Suite. And you have dinner and the whole nine yards, but, like, make a big thing out of it. But it's just like, something has to be said about the old ballparks, like Fenway and you have Wrigley.

[Father Bill]

So you're doing what I called if I ruled the world.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes.

[Father Bill]

So this is if Zach Ruled the World.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes, exactly.

[Father Bill]

I want to live in the world you're ruling.

[Zakk Wylde]

But it's a true story.

[Father Bill]

Sounds good to me.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean? Like, CBGB's. I never got a chance to play that. Did you ever play it? But that's why I'm shocked that, like.

[Father Bill]

By the way, like, the sound.

[Zakk Wylde]

Didn't purchase it.

[Father Bill]

Crazy, right?

[Zakk Wylde]

And just leave it.

[Father Bill]

Make it a museum or something.

[Zakk Wylde]

Or keep it still. So it's still running.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

I'm just saying. So let's say if Johnny Lydon actually bought it and owns it.

[Father Bill]

Sure.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, and it's just like, who owns it?

[Father Bill]

Or some billionaire owns it and says Johnny Lydon owns it. Right.

[Zakk Wylde]

He's the ambassador of the car.

[Father Bill]

Sure. See if Zach.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

I like it. We should do a whole next time you come back. We'll do if Zach Ruled the World. Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

Like, what about history here, man? You know what I'm saying? And actually talking about history on the Hendrix Experience thing. Right. Because we're doing that right now, which is always a blast. The owner brought out Jimmy's white Strat.

[Father Bill]

Oh, wow.

[Zakk Wylde]

The one that he played the national anthem on at Woodstock.

[Father Bill]

The Woodstock.

[Zakk Wylde]

The Woodstock Strat.

[Father Bill]

Did you get to play it?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, I just noodle on it for a little bit. But I mean, I'm just saying, the magic.

[Father Bill]

I'm just super jealous right now.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. I mean, well, it's the same thing with any of Randy's guitars or Eddie's guitars, you know, like, what is the guitar Ed played on Eruption. I mean, that's the historic value on that alone.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

The recording of that. You know what I mean? Or Jimmy Page's Double Necks and, you know.

[Father Bill]

Sure.

[Zakk Wylde]

I mean, like, how you said, like, all these. All these guitars that go for auction, whether it was. What was it? Kurt Cobain's. The acoustic, you know, that he used on.

[Father Bill]

Well, that's a funny story. I don't know if you know that.

[Zakk Wylde]

Story of what the. How it was bought at an auction.

[Father Bill]

No, no. How. How the guy who sold it got it.

[Zakk Wylde]

How. What happened on that.

[Father Bill]

He was married to Francis.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh.

[Father Bill]

And in the divorce or something, he claimed. At least this was the story that I saw. Don't know if it's true, but he claimed that she gave it to him.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, boy. Like she should be owning that guitar.

[Father Bill]

I've known, you know, I've known Frances since she was in the crib, so.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah.

[Father Bill]

So it was a hard story to see, you know, yeah, that's a funky one.

[Zakk Wylde]

Just buy it back.

[Father Bill]

Back to you. There you go. If we ruled the world See, maybe we'll rule the world together I'll do the right thing. Vegan alternative side. Yeah, you deal with the ribs and the. And the Yankees. In doing the research. I mean, I kind of knew these things. But, you know, you're kind of reminded that Bob Daisley played on the. The first Wreck you did with Ozzy. Right.

[Zakk Wylde]

That's not.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, but then. But then in Ozzy world, of course, then Geezer ends up coming back for the tour.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally.

[Father Bill]

So now you're playing in half a Sabbath.

[Zakk Wylde]

It was.

[Father Bill]

You must have.

[Zakk Wylde]

Totally.

[Father Bill]

I mean, Geezer's unbelievable. And Bob Daisley's amazing too.

[Zakk Wylde]

And Bob's amazing as well. Without a doubt.

[Father Bill]

Geezer plays such cool stuff.

[Zakk Wylde]

Actually, both. Bob is ridiculous, too. I mean, his bass lines are. You know. Cause Bob's a huge Jamerson. Paul McCartney guy and everything like that. And same thing with Geezer. Well, it all starts with Jamerson.

[Father Bill]

Geezer plays this weird way where it's like he makes the songs heavier. Cause if you really listen to Sabbath guitar Paul, he's playing some amazing riff. But it's really Geezer that gives it this kind of the weird.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, it's just. It's. Their bass is just ridiculous. I mean, aside of either whether they're gonna double the riff or they're gonna play some counterpoint to a riff.

[Father Bill]

But, I mean, I just saw that and I had absolutely.

[Zakk Wylde]

It is pretty amazing, you know. Cause Geezer was another one like Ozzy, where I could pick his brain about Sabbath things. And it was just like.

[Father Bill]

Well, Geezer used to write a lot of the lyrics.

[Zakk Wylde]

Here's a good one. When we were doing the Osmosis record with Geezer was back together on that one when we did, you know, with Perry Mason and C on the other side and everything like that. So we were recording a bunch of it with Dean Castanova. It was Dean Geezer, me and Oz. Right. Michael Beinhorn was working on that record with us, so. But Mikey, we recorded the drums in Paris, and then we came back to New York and we were recording. I mean, so I had a blast making that record. As far as, like, going out to all the. We were right off right in the center of, like, Paris. So we'd be going out to whiskey bars every night, just hanging out after we got done track. And then the same thing in New York City. So it was just a blast the whole time. But I remember. I remember There was this place in New York City called the Magical Child Occult Bookstore, right? It's not there anymore, but it was like this legendary occult bookstore where everything was in it. You had Christianity, you had everything in there. Catholicism, Crowley, Satanism, Crowley, you had Wicca, you had. Everything is one stop shop in occult bookstore, right? On every religion. So I remember going in there and it was just epic at first. I bought. So I got some books. I got the Satanic Bible and some books on Crowley, you know, just like I was gonna do a book report on, like, who's Babe Ruth? What's the big deal with this Babe Ruth guy, right? Like, what's the big deal with Crowley? And why is everyone so enamel. So I get a couple Crowley books, obviously the Satanic Bible, all this Anton lavey stuff. And then so they had a mural of Anton, I mean, Aleister Crowley. And I go, how much for the painting? I mean, the poster, the guy, I had to ask him like, bill, if you would be. I would have been, how much for the painting? The guy goes, $6.66. I go, Awesome. I go, here's seven bucks. Keep the change.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, right.

[Zakk Wylde]

So anyways, I get all this stuff. So we're tracking the studio. I got that picture of Crowley up on the wall, this, this mural of him. I got a picture of Jimmy Page up on the wall, a picture of Jimi Hendrix, a poster of Jimi Hendrix up on the wall. Because I was at some record stores, so I got all this stuff up on the wall. And I remember Oz comes into one day and he goes, I'm tracking guitars. And he goes. He's just looking at the picture and he's telling me he sees the picture of Jimmy Page and he goes, oh, man. He goes, Zach, I remember me and Bonzo and he's telling me these amazing.

[Father Bill]

The Sabbath and Zeppelin camps were tight.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, from Birmingham and everything like that. But he said, you know, it was mostly John Bonham that he was buddies with. So you know, the rest of the guy and Robert, he kind of knew Robert, but, you know, but it was more John where they'd go out drinking and getting hammered. So he was telling me some hilarious stories with the two of them. And then he goes talking about Jimmy Hendrix. He goes, I remember me and Geezer went and saw him. We were like, this can't be real. You know, when he was playing behind his head with his teeth that were going, this has got to be the tape. Or this is. You know, because they said it was. It just didn't even look real. And then he goes, he goes, zach, who's. Who's the bald headed on the wall? And I go, you would have been there. I go, oz, you don't know who that is. And he just says, who is this? I go, oh, come on, Oz, you don't know who that is. Who is it? I go, you've been singing about him since like 1979. 1980. Oh, come on, who is it? I go, you don't know who that is? He goes, who the is it? I go, oz, that's Aleister Crowley. Crowley. Aleister Crowley. And he goes. And he walks up to the poster and he stares and he goes, oh, is that what he looks like? And then, then he goes, geese is sitting there. And Geezy goes, who's the. Who's the. Anton Lavey. Where have I heard that name? And Geezer goes, because the satanic Bible was sitting in the thing. And he goes, geezer, Because Geezer knows all about it. You know, he's. Well read on it. You know, like, if you ask him about baseball players, just like, what number was. You know, Mickey Mantle, rookie season, he was six. Then he turns it to seven, you know, because they wanted in succession or what. He could tell you the history on the players or whatever. What number was Thurman Munson? He was number 15. You know, whatever. So it's just like Geezer's the, you know, the college professor of the occult stuff in with the Sabbath guy. So Geezer could tell you who they are. And he just goes, it was. He goes, geese. Who's that? Anton lavey. Who do I know that name for? He goes, you remember when we had the record release party in California, in San Francisco? They had on California street where the Church of Satan was?

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

He goes, they had a record release party. Like Parade. Exactly. Well, it's a condo now, right. So it's just like. He goes, but we had. They had a record, you know, Warner Brothers had a record release party for the. The first album.

[Father Bill]

For the first album?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes, for the very first Sabbath album. And Oz goes, oh, oh, he was the. The guy with the shaved head. And he goes, yeah, yeah, that was. That's Anton Lebe. And Oz goes, oh, oh, I. I remember now. Oh, no wonder why the album didn't do as well as it could have.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. Now, Sabbath is humor.

[Zakk Wylde]

It's awesome. I mean, Oz has zero clue who any of these people are, but he's the. He is the prince of the zero interest. Like, he has. He has kind of like a brief knowledge of Some of who these people are, but it's just like. But you ask him, like, World War II. He loves quizzes. World War II? Yeah. If he was on Jeopardy. For World War II. I'll take, you know, 500 for that question. Or this one. Yeah, whatever.

[Father Bill]

I. I love Michael Beinhorn as a person, as a producer. I didn't see eye to eye with him, and a lot of people didn't see eye to eye with him. And I'm not asking for dirt.

[Zakk Wylde]

No. But it's weird because I. I know. I've heard those stories, but I. Me and Mikey got along great. But. I mean.

[Father Bill]

But didn't just start to frame it slightly. But. But it seems like. And, you know, you're just reading stuff, so, you know, I'm asking you because you. You were there. But it seems like that's where things start to get a little weird. You know, that was it. Career insecurity for Ozzy and. Because I read something about. Even Steve Vai was writing songs with them.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I. I think it was.

[Father Bill]

I'm just saying. I'm trying to understand the atmosphere that led to you leaving.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, when I was.

[Father Bill]

I'm not looking for dirt. I'm just trying to understand.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I'm saying it's like when. When we did, obviously, when we came back to do osmosis in 95, you know, because obviously no more tears was 91, 92, whatever. And then we did live at Live. Live and Loud, the live album. And then we had, like, C on the other side. And there was some other songs, massive hits, ready to go, but they didn't put it on. You know, they were going to be bonus tracks. But then it came over to.

[Father Bill]

When.

[Zakk Wylde]

We did Osmosis, that's when Oz was, you know, jamming with Steve, wrote My Little man and some other ones on there. I remember I had to call Steve up. Go. I called Stevie up, and I'm like, father Steve, what's the tuning on this sitar? And, you know, I had to get the tv. He was like, zachy, it's this, that, and the other. You know, I was like, all right, Stevie. Thanks, buddy. So.

[Father Bill]

So it was nothing like they were trying to replace you or.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, Oz was just writing with other people because I was out. You know, you're out doing Smashing Pumpkins. You know, it's just like, while Billy's out doing this, I'll work with other people.

[Father Bill]

I'm just trying to understand some of this. There doesn't seem to be good information. I mean, I see the things where it was like. And it sounds like Ozzy kind of half joking, like he was turning my band into black label society or, you know, but it doesn't sound credible to me.

[Zakk Wylde]

But I mean, put it this way. I mean, like, everyone always asks my relationship with Ozzy and Mom, you know, I lovingly always refer to her as mom because she's been like my mother Since I've been 19, 20 years old, you know, so. But no. And Oz has been like. Like, you know, I always said I had the two coolest guys growing up between my father, who's a World War II vet, D Day, Omaha beach, and Ozzy. So I could always ask them for advice. Oz is like an older brother. You know what I mean? Like, he's like 20 years older than me, so. And the way my kids are, our oldest son to our youngest son. So. But it's just like. So I could always ask those two for advice on anything. And they would always just go, come here, come here. I go, yeah. Then he would just poke me in the eye, and I go, why did you do that? And they go, just because.

[Father Bill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, so. But anyways, that would be the advice. So I really didn't learn anything, but, you know, but that's what it would be. But the whole thing is. No, my relationship with Oz and Sharon, it's just always been to this day. Like, when we text him or talk with him or get together, it's just like if they said Oz was like, zach, do me a favor. Can you come over and clean the house and clean the dog run? Me and Sharon had to go do a business meeting. We're having company come over tonight. It's like, oz, no problem. I would just go do it.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know, like you would for your parents.

[Father Bill]

More like family.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, without a doubt. So if he needs me to play on something, I play on it.

[Father Bill]

But what was the professional circumstance of it all? Because. Wait, stop. You were writing hits with him, right?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, yeah. When we did, no more tears and obviously no rest. But, like, I think when I started doing, you know, with Black Label, as it started going along, Oz was just like, well, Zach's got his own. Zach's his own guy now. So he was just like, did he.

[Father Bill]

Almost kind of want you to graduate into your own place?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, it's just like, Zack's out of the nest now. He's just like, I don't want to be the lead singer in black legal society. And I don't take offense to that, because if Randy would have went on keep doing Quiet Riot, he would have been like, I don't want to be the lead singer in Quiet Riot. Now, even though Randy's coming back and playing a new riff called I don't.

[Father Bill]

Know, is it because he wants complete focus on what he's doing or just.

[Zakk Wylde]

Like, it is what it is. And if Jake went on, he was doing Badlands and continued doing Badlands and then coming back, he would have said, it's like, I'm the lead singer in Badlands now, you know, Even though Jake's coming in with the. With this riff called Bark at the Moon, and it's like, Oz, the minute you sing on it, it's new Ozzy.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

You know what I mean? And it's just like. I mean, especially with me. I mean, in the Black Label Soup you're always tasting, being that I'm a graduate of Lord Ioma University, as you are, and Jerry Cantrell and all of us. I mean, Kim Thale and Chris, like, we all are disciples of Lord Iommi and his writing.

[Father Bill]

Totally.

[Zakk Wylde]

So the whole thing is. It's just. It's gonna be in there in the soup somewhere. So. But it's just like when I'm jamming something, you know, whether it's just like, soon as Ozzy would sing on. If Ozzy sang on Stillborn, which he did in the chorus, but if Oz sang the whole song, that's a new Ozzy song. If Ozzy sang On the Gallows, the brand new one, that's a new Ozzy song.

[Father Bill]

That kind of a cool Sabbath. Y.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, of course there's Sabbath floating around in there all the time, and there always will be, because that's what. That's. That's the flavor that I like. I mean, I'm just saying. But it's just like. But yeah, so. But I think I completely understand what Oz is saying in that regard. He's just like, I don't want to be the lead singer in Quiet Riot or Bad Landscape.

[Father Bill]

He sits you down and say, black Label, we love you. Do your thing, and we're here for you. Or is it like you get a.

[Zakk Wylde]

Call, sat me down just like we're sitting right now. And he said, zach, sit down for a second. Come here. I said, yeah. He poked me in the eye. He goes, go make me a ham sandwich. And I go and go light on. And I was like. Cause I go light, put light on the mustard. Coleman's, though. Always Coleman's, right? No, but. So, yeah, Bill, he would be saying the same Thing to you, it's just like, everything sounds like Smashing Pumpkins now. You know when you're like, zach, you would go, listen to this riff. I go, what do you think? And I go, there's a lot of Sabbath floating around in that meal. You know what I mean? And you'd go, I know. And I was just telling me it sounds like Smashing Bumpkins. I go, well, you know what I mean?

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

And same thing. If Father Cantrell. Jerry was playing a riff, he would go, it sounds. I don't want to be the lead singer on Alice and Chains. And I completely get it, man.

[Father Bill]

You know, when you. When you left, it was 95. 6. Somewhere in there.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, 96.

[Father Bill]

So it's a little bit blurry in my mind, because that's when we were touring like crazy. You know how it is. It's like, stuff happens, and you hear about it, but it doesn't process the same as if you were sitting at home and watching an MTV News or something. Right?

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I mean, at that point, when. That's when Joe Holmes. I'm friends with Joe Holmes, Joe's amazing player. And that's when they got Joe to come in, because I was playing with Gnr at the time as well, in between all the osmosis and then coming back. I remember because Slash, they were talking about. I think Gilby had left the band. And so Axl was like, well, who are we gonna get on guitar?

[Father Bill]

And I didn't even know that part.

[Zakk Wylde]

I guess Slash just threw around. He's like, well, you know, my name came in the mix or whatever. And Axl goes, you know, I'll just. I'll reach out to Zach. I never spoke to Axel before, so. But I.

[Father Bill]

How long did that go on for?

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, I knew. I knew Slash when I first joined Ozzy. You know, that's when guns was blowing up. And then. And I knew Stephen and. And then I. Obviously, I knew Matt from when he was with the Cult, you know, from when Firewoman and all that stuff, so. Because he was good buddies with Randy Castillo, so, you know. And once again, we all. Everybody kind of knows each other, and we're all friends, so. But Slash. So I was like, well, why don't we ask Zach if he wants to do it?

[Father Bill]

Or whatever?

[Zakk Wylde]

And so they. Axel called me up. He was like, zach, you want to get together and jam? I was like, all right. Well, yeah, with. See what happens, right? So I remember they had a rehearsal joint all set up, and I remember it was me, Matt. Dizzy was throwing down on the keys. And then you had Slash and Duff and, you know, I mean, Matt and myself and Axel. And so we were down there jamming and noodling ideas. And then we recorded a couple riffs, I think, like Rose Petal Garden and ended up on the first Black Label album. But it was just like. We had some riffs laying around, but it's just like nothing was kind of materializing with it. And then it was just like. I remember Oz was like, zachy, are you gonna do this thing with the fellas or are we doing this thing?

[Father Bill]

I see. I see him.

[Zakk Wylde]

And then I was like, oz, let me call up and see if I can get an answer from the guys. Cause I don't know either. Cause I'm just sitting, you know, like, I can't tell you yes or no because I don't know what's going on with the guys. So it was just like, you know, it was just kind of going on and on. Nothing was happening. So I remember Oz was just, you know, getting ready to release the Osmosis album and getting ready to tour. And Oz was just like, zach Sinek. Yeah, Oz, come here. Little closer. And so he poked me in the eyes again. He goes, zach, you make me a ham sandwich. I'm gonna get Joe Holmes to come play for a little while, and then we'll see where it happens from there. But. But, yeah, that's how it kind of. That's what happened.

[Father Bill]

Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

And then. So nothing. And then I was kind of like, well, Bill, what am I gonna do? There's. Then the Guns n Roses thing wasn't happening. I'm not playing with the boss anymore. I'm like, well, I better figure something out. And, you know, I just released Book of Shadows, which I love doing, because when we were doing Osmosis, it was this place called bruise on 34th in Lexington. It was just like the pub had been there from 1908. So I would go. After we got done tracking, every day I'd go into brews and just lit. They had an amazing jukebox in there. I'd just be drinking till like six in the morning every night at the bar. Just me and you solving the problems of the world, hanging out. And the jukebox had the Stones in there, Bob Seger, Neil Young. Just like all this Eagles, all this amazing, you know, just all acoustic, mellow, amazing stuff. So I'd be listening to that all night long. And I remember just going back into my room, my acoustic and just writing. And then. So I had all that stuff and then I. That's when I did the Book of Shadows thing after Osmosis did a short tour behind that. And then, like, after we got done with that, I was like, what am I gonna do? I'm not ready to be James Taylor, like, a singer songwriter, right. Yet. I still want to play heavy stuff. So that pretty much out of, you know, being in the middle of the Atlantic with one oar, I'm like, bill, do you see any land? You're like, no, but we better start rowing because we're gonna die out here. No, there are no options. You better. I never thought to myself, like, with Ozzie, with Sabbath, well, I guess the dream is over. It was just like, no, I'm not gonna go back to having some crummy job that I can't stand. So it was just like, we are gonna find land and that's it. Or, we're gonna die out here.

[Father Bill]

In how this town could be, though. Did you kind of feel that cold wind that blows sometimes when people think, you know. You know, when you're with Ozzy, that's a big gig.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, that's the security blanket of having your mom and dad's house. And now you're. You don't have that security blanket.

[Father Bill]

Did you see people change the way they were acting around you? Do you feel that?

[Zakk Wylde]

No. I mean, if anything, it's. You know, you have. It's like, wow, this is kind of exciting because we have our own apartment now. You know what I mean? And now, yeah, me and you are gonna start our own little coffee shop, and we're gonna start our own business from being, you know, me and you working at McDonald's. And now we're gonna start our own little burger stand.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. I think what's so cool is because, like I said, it's fuzzy in my mind, but I remember hearing that you'd left and then at some point that you were starting Black Label. And I think what's so cool is you did it the hard way. You took it to the fans. You built that thing up, literally.

[Zakk Wylde]

I remember taking the merch, printing the merch ourself, and then taking all the merch orders. And I remember writing a thank you letter and then putting it in the manila envelopes and me and you bringing them down to the post office and mailing out these Black Label Smashing Pumpkin T shirts with thank you letters on them. But so it went from, like you said, playing with Ozzy to arenas and stadiums and festivals or whatever, to now me and you were playing in clubs with like, five people in there that don't even.

[Father Bill]

And you're married and you got kids. So it's part of the dynamic.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. So what I'm just saying is. And, you know, and I always tell all kids, I go, you know, whether somebody's like, you have advice for my son or daughter, you know? Cause I go, yeah, just play what you love. And there are no options. There are no other eggs in your basket. Because if, you know you have eggs in your basket, then you're not gonna. If you're out in the middle of the Atlantic and we just got a boat and we got oars, I'm like, bill, we're either gonna die out here. Do you see any land anywhere? You're like, zach, I don't see anything.

[Father Bill]

There's no arenas in the middle of the ocean as wasted.

[Zakk Wylde]

That's what I'm saying. We better start rowing.

[Father Bill]

So in your mind's eye, because you've, you know, from my perspective, everything you've touched has been successful. I think it's a testament to your talent.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, you know, I mean, I'm just saying, I think if anything, you know, just like. Well, you know, you gotta. It's just everything in life is based. When I look at my father, him being an orphan and then went straight to World War II, then I remember his first wife, Marilyn, died. I remember my grandmother and my aunt in Asbury Park. That was from my dad's first wife, who died of cancer. So he remarried my mother and had me and my sister.

[Father Bill]

Okay.

[Zakk Wylde]

But they were our grandmother and aunt, and that was my dad's first wife, Marilyn, like her mother.

[Father Bill]

I see. I see.

[Zakk Wylde]

So he went over there every weekend, changed the light bulbs, clean the apartment. He never lost touch with him.

[Father Bill]

Wow.

[Zakk Wylde]

And. Well, no, then after my mother dying and my dad, just. Everything is based for me on strength, toughness, and perseverance. You just gotta have that.

[Father Bill]

I get it.

[Zakk Wylde]

You have to.

[Father Bill]

That's what I'm trying to convey to you, brother to brother. You know, I really respect that you took a situation that would, in many ways, throw people off. You went right back at it and built this thing with your own hands. I just think it's so awesome because most people, they just don't have that inner strength to do that.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, like I said, I mean, like, I love doing everything that I'm truly by and thank the good Lord every day for everything I have and being on this ultimate podcast as well. So, I mean. But no. And the same thing with. Even with the ultimate warrior, I Mean, the reason why I'd always dug him so much, even when it just. Cause of his. The. I mean, in all his quotes that he has all the time as well. You just have no belief in what others say about you or anything. It's just everything is just brute force. Yeah, without a doubt. So it's just like you can have the compassion of Jesus Christ and the brute force of the ultimate Warrior, Dick Butkus and Genghis Khan. As far as the determination and the work ethic, it just. You just. There is no. Do you think we're gonna. It's. No, you just do it.

[Father Bill]

Have you ever heard the story where Warrior asked Vince McMahon for a quarter million dollars or he wasn't gonna go through the cut.

[Zakk Wylde]

SummerSlam or what was it?

[Father Bill]

Yeah, I heard that story from Sergeant Slaughter. Amazing story.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, Sergeant Slaughter's really not a big fan of the Warrior. He's the ultimate puke to him. So, you know.

[Father Bill]

Did you ever meet Sergeant Slaughter?

[Zakk Wylde]

I've never met him.

[Father Bill]

He's great. Great, amazing.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I'm sure all the guys are great. I mean, we know all the politics that goes on with all that stuff. I mean, that's a whole nother world of insanity.

[Father Bill]

Well, I think, you know, I live it every day. You being a wrestling license and.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah. You own a wrestling. Definitely. And by the way, Bubba Dudley always says amazing things about you.

[Father Bill]

I love Bubba. Without a doubt. Bubba tells the story the first time he saw me in ECW locker room because just incredible had brought me in there, you know, when we were talking about locker rooms. Now I'm in the ECW locker room and Bubba squares, which was. Squares me up from across the locker room. And he's thinking, who the hell is this person in my locker room? And he's about ready to come over and kill me. Somebody says, you know, that's the.

[Zakk Wylde]

It's gonna be your future boss.

[Father Bill]

Who's that? Who's that? I can't do the Bubba, but totally last thing, thank you for indulging me, first of all, because I've seen you play live. And even though I was watching some clips in anticipation for Interview, I don't know how you play so aggressively and so clean. It blows my mind. I've never seen anyone with your level of attack. And you. But you, you play flawlessly. I don't get it.

[Zakk Wylde]

I don't know if it's so flawlessly, but, you know, you can always. You can always get here.

[Father Bill]

I'll put it this way. I wish I could play like you.

[Zakk Wylde]

Well, I really, I'm really sure. J.D. who's our band. I've known J.D. since we're 17 years ago. Bill. Let's, let's rethink that one. He goes stick with Smash and Pumpkin.

[Father Bill]

I'm going to go to the video tip and I'm going to slow it down and see if you miss one.

[Zakk Wylde]

Shady, would you say?

[Father Bill]

Because like you said like I play a lot of hammer ons, you know, I don't know where that came from. Maybe just laziness but you know you're very. Like you said, you pick every note and to me, I mean I watched you play for an hour and just like what does he mess up? I don't see it.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, there's definitely clankers in there but.

[Father Bill]

There'S a lot of delay or something. Yeah, one thing I thought just in poking around cause I want to know what your future plans are. I mean obviously you have your band but you've ever thought doing like the kind of the all star record's not the best but it's like you get.

[Zakk Wylde]

To get your friends together, tons of guests and stuff like oh yeah, Traveling Wilbury's.

[Father Bill]

Well you did the, you did the record that Andrew Watt did with Ozzy. You know, you were on that. Tony's on that.

[Zakk Wylde]

I thought Jeff Beck was on that pretty good record.

[Father Bill]

You know there's a lot of cool stuff on there. But I was just wondering from your perspective because I thought it'd be interesting to hear you. I'm not saying like Carlos Santana but you know he did that record. But I think it'd be interesting if there was a record built around your guitar playing but that showed different modalities of your guitar playing. Because I saw an interview recently and it was before I knew I was going to interview you where you were talking about Joe Pass and people you really. Yeah. So I was like. It surprised me.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh yeah. With Neil Giraldo.

[Father Bill]

Yeah. I was like, you know, it's like most metal guys don't name check Joe Pass, you know what I mean? So that told me as a fellow guitar player like oh, this guy's really studying the game, you know. Because a lot of metal guys, they're really one lane guys and you know them, they're your friends. Yeah, I mean but nothing wrong with it.

[Zakk Wylde]

No, no, I agree. I mean different, it's whatever you're into, you know, it's so funny like we would talk about like you know, whether you like different musics. We just happen to like I love yacht rock. I love Christopher Cross. I'll listen to everything like that.

[Father Bill]

Christopher Cross is your singer.

[Zakk Wylde]

Amazing. You know what I mean? Actually, Steve, look at that. Luke's out with him right now. Christopher Cross and Toto, right? So. No, but it's just. I love that, like, all the New wave essentials, whether it's Howard Jones and Gary Newman.

[Father Bill]

Did you ever see Howard Jones when he had a mime?

[Zakk Wylde]

No, I never saw that.

[Father Bill]

Check that clip out. He's on American Bandstand, I think.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, wow.

[Father Bill]

It's when he's blowing up.

[Zakk Wylde]

Okay.

[Father Bill]

And there's that song, what Is Love?

[Zakk Wylde]

Yeah, totally. Which is a huge hit.

[Father Bill]

So Dick Clark's interviewing him, and he goes, so who's the other fella? He's like, well, you know, it gets a little boring with me just playing keyboard, singing. So I brought this mime, and he literally has a mime when he's singing the fucking song.

[Zakk Wylde]

Dude, that is so great.

[Father Bill]

You want to put some zip in your coffee? That is some other shit.

[Zakk Wylde]

I'll have to check that out.

[Father Bill]

See, but I got my New Wave.

[Zakk Wylde]

Knowledge, without a doubt. But I mean, it's just like, I love. I love all of it. So, I mean, it's just like. But I remember reading this one quote with Johnny Winter, and they said, well, Johnny, have you ever listened to it? He goes, no. He goes. The only. Like I tell younger kids, you know, like, zach, you got any advice for my son or my daughter? I'm like, whatever music it is that moves you. Because I go, if it moves you, then that's. That's good music, and you can feel it, and that's what you should be doing.

[Father Bill]

I just. I just would like to hear you. I love your playing. I listen, you play all day. But it would be interesting to hear you put into different contexts.

[Zakk Wylde]

Oh, yeah. I dig what you're saying. Like, different types of things. But I mean, it's just like. But it is true. I mean, like, talking about, like, you.

[Father Bill]

With Jerry Cantrell would be amazing.

[Zakk Wylde]

I do. Yeah.

[Father Bill]

Great writer.

[Zakk Wylde]

Jerry's amazing.

[Father Bill]

You know how to write. Like, you two together, that'd be cool. You with Chino Moreno of Deftones. You know what I mean?

[Zakk Wylde]

I dig it.

[Father Bill]

Chino's got such a cool voice. It'd be interesting to hear. Yeah.

[Zakk Wylde]

With all know, like you said, Traveling Wilbury's a doom. Or yourself get yourself in this. Know, maybe we'll have to put this thing together.

[Father Bill]

There you go. If we ruled the world.

[Zakk Wylde]

Yes.

[Father Bill]

That's a great. Thank you, Zach.

[Zakk Wylde]

All right, man. Great.

[Father Bill]

Talk.

[Zakk Wylde]

Appreciate it, Father Bill. Thank you very much, buddy.