The Marketing Architects: Building Brands That Buyers Remember with Jenni Romaniuk

Date: September 16, 2025
Guest: Jenni Romaniuk, Research Professor, Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science
Hosts: Lena Jasper, Angela Voss, Rob Demar

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the science of brand-building and mental availability, featuring renowned marketing scientist Jenni Romaniuk. The team explores Jenni's groundbreaking research on distinctive brand assets, the role of category entry points, and the importance of mental availability in driving sustainable brand growth. The discussion provides practical insights on evaluating, evolving, and prioritizing brand-building strategies grounded in empirical marketing research.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin and Importance of Distinctive Brand Assets

• Defining Distinctiveness
  Distinctiveness isn’t about being different for its own sake; it's about making the brand effortlessly recognizable through sensory cues (colors, logos, sounds). These cues cue memory and make brands easier to buy and harder to forget.

  “Distinctiveness isn't about standing out for the sake of it. It's about helping people effortlessly recognize your brand without them having to think too hard.” – Lena Jasper, referencing Romaniuk (03:30)

• Asset Longevity vs. Fashion
  Brands shouldn’t treat assets as fashion trends; classics endure better than seasonal experiments.

2. How Distinctive Asset Research Began (04:32)

• Jenni shares that her PhD revealed the number of associations people have with a brand matters more than the exact content of those associations, within category relevance.

  “It mattered less what specifically people thought and it mattered more how much people thought.” – Jenni Romaniuk (04:37)

• This insight led to the focus on mental availability: embedding memories through strong, ubiquitous branding.

3. Measuring Distinctive Asset Strength (07:18–09:33)

• Two Key Metrics: Fame (how many think of your brand when seeing the asset) and Uniqueness (do people think only of your brand).

  “Uniqueness is about: do we own this asset?... Fame is about: how widespread is this ownership?” – Jenni Romaniuk (08:29)

• Risks are higher if fame or uniqueness is low: you either fail to be recalled or share recall with competitors.

4. How & When to Audit or Change Distinctive Assets (09:47–14:02)

• Strategic Review:
  Brands need a toolkit of diverse, effective assets—no point in having 10 hammers, or tools you don't use.
• Tracking:
  Annual or biennial checks suffice; assets don’t change much quickly.
• When to Change:
  Only review assets when entering new environments (e.g., in-store to online) or if assets become culturally inappropriate.

  “Changing just because you feel it’s a little out of date, I’m uncomfortable with because I don’t see any evidence that is of value.” – Jenni Romaniuk (13:40)

5. Leadership Changes and Brand Asset “Sins” (14:02–16:57)

• New leaders often change brand assets for visibility, which rarely solves core issues.

  “Distinctive assets are the sacrificial lamb when an organization wants to indicate change... But it’s solving the wrong problem often.” – Jenni Romaniuk (14:53)

• Having strong metrics helps defend existing assets against unnecessary change.

6. Case Study: Cracker Barrel Rebrand (17:07–17:54)

• Romaniuk critiques the recent logo simplification trend as damaging to brand character.

  “They’re designing for aesthetics, not for distinctiveness... Problem is, it just looks the same as everybody else.” – Jenni Romaniuk (17:30)

7. Category Entry Points (CEPs): Definition & Prioritization (18:22–26:58)

• Definition:
  CEPs are situations or needs that trigger a category purchase, not attributes like “trust.”

  “Category entry points are about consumers... the sorts of thoughts that you have before you’ve even thought of any brands.” – Jenni Romaniuk (20:16)

• Prioritizing CEPs:
  • Most valuable are those common to many buyers.
  • Pick one per execution but build a broad network over time.

  “Big brands have more category entry points and more mental advantages on [them] than smaller brands do.” – Jenni Romaniuk (25:23)

8. Reaching Light Buyers: Why They're Essential for Growth (26:58–29:31)

• Light buyers are numerous and fragile; losing them is a key sign of brand decline.
• Caring for light buyers is both growth and risk mitigation.

  “When brands decline, it’s light buyers that drop off first... If you’re not caring about your light buyers, you are risking a lot with your brand.” – Jenni Romaniuk (28:02 & 29:26)

9. Mental Availability: It’s About Retrieval, Not Just Presence (29:31–33:07)

• Mental availability focuses on making the brand easy to recall in buying situations, not just being present in memory.

  “It’s not about being in the brain, it’s about being retrievable in the brain.” – Jenni Romaniuk (30:56)

10. Contrarian Takes and Future Research Directions (33:07–34:17)

• Jenni asserts there's little evidence differentiation is essential for brand success.

  “I still see no evidence that a brand needs to be differentiated to be successful. And I've been looking for it for 20 years.” – Jenni Romaniuk (33:29)

• She hints at ongoing and future work, possibly new books or more accessible executive training.

11. How Brands Grow Live: Training and Community (34:17–35:58)

• Ehrenberg-Bass now offers hands-on, open-enrollment learning so marketers can apply its principles directly, regardless of company sponsorship.

12. Personal Reflections & Light-hearted Close (36:17–38:38)

• The panel shares alternative career ideas, underscoring their human sides.
• Jenny jokes about problem-solving, maybe digging wells in Guatemala, and underscores she didn’t plan her current path.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jenni Romaniuk on Asset Evaluation:
  “You have to assess where you are now… sometimes we built up assets because of our past, and we shouldn’t just throw them away because it’s hard to build distinctive assets.” (09:56)
• On the Cracker Barrel Rebrand:
  “They’re designing for aesthetics, not for distinctiveness… it just looks the same as everybody else. And that’s where you fall down.” (17:30)
• On Category Entry Points:
  “If you try to genericize them too much, you end up with things that just don't replicate what goes on in people's brains.” (21:43)
• On Light Buyers:
  “Caring for light buyers is a risk mitigation strategy as well as a growth strategy.” (28:02)
• Contrarian View:
  “I still see no evidence that a brand needs to be differentiated to be successful… most of the evidence is very, very weak.” (33:29)

Segment Timestamps

• [03:30] – The real meaning of distinctiveness
• [04:32] – How Romaniuk's research on branding began
• [07:18] – Fame and uniqueness: the two essential metrics
• [09:47] – Asset audit: When and how to review branding
• [12:15] – When to evolve distinctive assets
• [14:02] – Asset changes and leadership transitions
• [17:07] – Cracker Barrel logo simplification debate
• [20:16] – How to define Category Entry Points
• [23:00] – How to prioritize CEPs in messaging and media
• [26:58] – Why reaching light buyers is crucial
• [29:31] – Mental availability: Memory retrieval vs. presence
• [33:07] – Contrarian corner: Differentiation not key for success
• [34:17] – How Brands Grow Live educational program
• [36:17] – Personal what-if career roundtable

Key Takeaways for Marketers

• Distinctive assets should be measured and managed proactively, not changed reactively or for fashion’s sake.
• Category entry points must be rooted in true buyer situations and kept broad for scale.
• Light buyers are central to maintaining and growing market share—don’t ignore them.
• Memory structures need continuous reinforcement; brand-building is long-term and cumulative.
• Differentiation is overrated; focus on salience, availability, and mental shortcuts in buyers’ brains.

Connect with Jenni Romaniuk

LinkedIn is the best place to follow her latest work and insights.

This summary captures the episode's deep dive into evidence-based brand building, colored with the irreverent, practical tone of the hosts and guest. It’s essential listening for any marketer looking to create brands that are easy to buy and hard to forget.