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The Marketing Architects
Great Marketing Tells Great Stories
00:27:05
Stories capture human attention like nothing else. The best advertising doesn't just explain features, it creates emotional connections that make your message stick. When brands tell compelling stories, they're perceived as more trustworthy than those...
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- [00:00]
Angela Voss
What we really need to be thinking about is how to make that message stick and how to make sure that it's memorable, emotionally engaging. But the best stories aren't just engaging, they're really serving a purpose. Marketing Architects.
- [00:13]
Alena Jasper
Hello and welcome to the Marketing Architects, a research first podcast dedicated to answering your toughest marketing questions. I'm Alena Jasper. I run the marketing team here at Marketing Architects, and I'm joined by my co hosts, Angela Voss, the CEO of Marketing Architects, and Rob DeMars, the chief product architect of misfits and machines.
- [00:32]
Angela Voss
Hello.
- [00:33]
Rob DeMars
So I've got this friend, and he's really cool, which I know. First of all, you're like, you have a friend. And not only do you have a friend, but this friend is cool. Well, tell me more. And I tell you what, this guy, he looks like Bono. Like, he's got the really long hair and he's just cool. And of course, cool people sit in first class. So he's sitting in first class and he's eating his yogurt, you know, his first class. Yoplait. Yogurt. And he's talking to this beautiful woman who happened to get seated next to him that he didn't know. And he's just telling her about how, you know, he's going on this really cool trip to LA to shoot a really big commercial, you know, and he's pretty awesome, right? So he gets up to go to the bathroom, and the thing I didn't tell you is he went to the dentist earlier that day and his upper lip was numb. And he went to the bathroom, looked in the mirror, and he had yogurt all over his upper lip. It was like a big yogurt mustache. And we got a little ring, a ding, ding, ding.
- [01:47]
Angela Voss
Sorry, I have somebody else trying to tell me a story, but this one keeps going on and on and on.
- [01:54]
Rob DeMars
I know he's got. He's got yogurt all over his upper lip. So needless to say, he didn't get the phone number on that trip.
- [02:02]
Angela Voss
Wow.
- [02:03]
Rob DeMars
I think it's hilarious.
- [02:04]
Angela Voss
So what are we talking about today?
- [02:06]
Rob DeMars
I mean, that's a funny story.
- [02:08]
Alena Jasper
Well, okay. People might be wondering, why did that just happen? Well, this episode is going to be all about what Rob just did, which is storytelling. So, as always, we're here with our thoughts on some recent marketing news. Always trying to read our opinions and data research and what drives business results. And we are going to chat about storytelling and marketing. We're going to talk about why story matters so much, what makes a great story and how can you incorporate it into your marketing and advertising? We're going to cover both theory and practice today, which I always find more helpful what I'm learning. So hopefully by the end of this episode you can tell a better story than Rob just did. But just in case anyone doesn't believe in the power of story and marketing, or maybe you just need some more data or research to bring this to leadership in order to advocate for it, I wanted to start with some proof and luckily for me, there's just a lot of research out there to support storytelling and advertising. I narrowed it down to three studies. The first is titled Visual Storytelling and Advertising A Study of Visual Storytelling as a Marketing Approach for Creating Effective Ads. This is by Doa Fuk Eldewski, published in the International Journal of Humanities, Social Sciences and Education. The study found that visual storytelling in ads triggers mirror neurons in the brain, meaning when people watch a well structured story unfold, our brains react as if we're experiencing it ourselves. This neurological effect increases emotional engagement, which makes people feel a stronger connection to the brand. Second study is titled the Role of Storytelling in Advertising, Consumer Emotion, Narrative Engagement Level, and Word of Mouth Intention. This one is by Jin A. Kang Suk Kong Hong and Glenn Hubbard and was published in the Journal of Consumer Behavior. They found ads with a strong narrative structure, a beginning, middle and an end significantly boost word of mouth intention, meaning people are far more likely to share them. In fact, this study found that storytelling ads generate twice as much organic sharing compared to non story driven ads. And finally, the last study, the Influence of Storytelling on the Consumer Brand Relationship Experience, which is by Katia Fernandez Crespo Elsina Gaspar Ferreira and Ricardo Muta Cardoso for the Journal of Brand Management. Their research found that brands using storytelling in their ads were perceived as more trustworthy than brands that relied on straightforward product messaging. They felt more connected, more emotionally invested, and were more likely to buy from brands that use story. So hopefully that's enough evidence to convince everyone of the power of story. But I think everyone listening probably already knew instinctively that story matters because we are humans and we naturally gravitate to stories. So Rob, can you help explain why we just love story so much?
- [04:52]
Rob DeMars
Gosh, there's so many good reasons, right? First and foremost, we want that emotional connection, right? We want to feel something. And I think that's almost ironic when you think about it, because we don't just want to feel happy, right? Sometimes we want to feel sad or we want to feel scared like we go to scary movies, right? Like for some reason we just, we want that stimulus that's going to make us feel something. Also, we're bored. I think as humans we're just. We're looking for those things that can capture our attention. And stories do a great job of helping us get out of that lull. Stories also do a great job of helping to make meaning of things. They can take complex topics and turn them into something that people can follow. There's also, I think, a level of order and certainty that we get through the formula of storytelling. I always think it's ironic that now and then you'll get a movie that wins awards because it had an unhappy ending but nobody went and saw it. And they're like, oh, so bold. Because it wasn't a happy ending. Because it's a cliche. Well, it's a cliche for a reason. We like order, we like certainty. And I think stories take us on that journey where there's an out we can feel good about.
- [06:01]
Alena Jasper
I'm with you on the I hate when books do that. Where they try to like authors are going to be unique and have the book end. Sadly. It's like there's a reason why Harry Potter didn't end in a terribly sad way. There's a reason why Harry got to live at the end of Harry Potter.
- [06:15]
Rob DeMars
Don't ruin it. Oh, you don't ruin stories.
- [06:20]
Alena Jasper
Well, we've all probably been witness a little bit too much, if we're being honest with ourselves, to some storytelling that just doesn't hit the mark. Maybe it feels too long. Maybe you weren't the right audience. The ending might have been given away like I just did. But lucky for us, there is a proven story structure that all of our favorite stories follow. Some call it the Hero's journey, or sometimes it's known as just a strong story arc. So, Rob, could you walk us through the pieces of a great story?
- [06:47]
Rob DeMars
Absolutely. Like I said, if you steal from me, you're stolen twice. So today we're stealing from Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, which is an incredible book. He wrote this book called the Hero with a Thousand Faces. And it really lays out how all of the great stories from mythology have followed the same framework even to today. And he uses Star wars as an example of that hero's journey. So think about it this way. You start off with the call to adventure, right? So you've got Luke, who, you know, he's a farm boy living on Tatooine. Life kind of sucks, you know. All of a sudden he finds this message in R2D2 from this hot princess named Princess Leah. And.
- [07:32]
Angela Voss
Hold on. Did you just call her Princess Leah?
- [07:35]
Rob DeMars
Princess Leia. Okay, I said Leah, but I meant Leia. You're right. Princess Leah. Leia. You know, tomato, tomato.
- [07:43]
Angela Voss
Get the main characters, right? It's important part of the story.
- [07:47]
Rob DeMars
It is, it is. So, you know, at first he's like, I can't leave the farm. You know? So the hero refuses this call to adventure. They meet a mentor. Oftentimes for Luke, it was Obi Wan Kenobi. And he learns about this thing called the Force, which he can't do, but he's like, oh, that's pretty interesting. And then something happens that triggers him to go on that journey, right? And in this case, his uncle and his aunt get killed by the Empire. He's like, dang it, I'm going to go. I'm going to go on this journey. So he goes on the journey, and he deals with trials and transformation. He meets some allies in Han Solo and Chewie, and they go to the innermost cave, which is, you know, the Death Star, and they rescue the princess. And then there's a big ordeal. Obi Wan gets killed, but there's the seizing of the sword, right? Like, Luke gets the plans for the Death Star, and then there's the road back, right? They take the plans, they go destroy the Death Star. There's resurrection because Luke finally gets to use the Force, you know, to trust in the Force so he can destroy the Death Star. And then he returns with the magic elixir, you know, and. Which is, again, all parts of the same formula. And at the end of the day, he gets the girl, which is also a sister, and that's kind of gross. Maybe that part's a little off script. But overall, it follows the same, you know, story arc.
- [09:12]
Alena Jasper
Love it. So now we've talked about why stories work in advertising, why we love them, and what a great story looks like. I want to get a little bit practical. I think it's easy to buy into story as an important part of advertising, but probably harder to execute. So, Ange, how do you think brands should think about incorporating story into their marketing?
- [09:31]
Angela Voss
Yeah, I think, first of all, if you are at that spot as a marketer, good job. Like, don't convince yourself. You need to go back to the rational speeds and feeds of marketing. We all have consumers that are in market and out of market, and both sides are really important. I'm going to talk about that a little bit. But when we're thinking about Storytelling and marketing. This is more than just a creative exercise. And I'll come back to that in a minute. What we really need to be thinking about is really how to make that message stick, how to make sure that it's memorable, emotionally engaging. But the best stories aren't just engaging, they're really serving a purpose, whether that is making the brand more memorable, reinforcing what makes the product or service unique, or just driving that immediate action. So even back to what Rob was saying with the Hero's Journey, great framework. But specifically in TV, which is where we work, we only have 15 or 30 seconds. We don't have enough time to maybe tell that instead entire story. So we need to think about how to drop viewers into a key moment that highlights the brand's role in solving a problem or fulfilling a need and getting that viewer to feel something in that process. And when people feel something, they remember it. This is why the best brand stories are simple. They're repeatable. They're a lot of times culturally relevant. But not every brand needs like this sweeping narrative, kind of forcing a story where it doesn't fit, you know, and in doing that, sometimes it can make it feel really inauthentic, or it can work against you and actually make it forgettable. So what you're trying to do is be real, be distinct, important. Tell a story that actually matters to the people that you're trying to reach. And lastly, on this topic too, I feel like sometimes marketers fall into this trap and we might get some hate mail on this, and that's totally fine. But going back to this is not just a creative exercise. If you want to be a movie maker, go to Hollywood. We work in marketing, and our job is to drive relevance and ultimately market share for our brands. And that means sales. And so when we think about consumers, they are in or out of market for our product or service. This is the Lesbinette and Peterfield stuff, right? The long and short. Some are easily moved, some are not. But there's always two buckets of consumers, and especially in tv, you know, it's a great storytelling medium. But sometimes brands can go too far and only focus on that emotional side, forgetting that we're working in a channel with broad reach. We should also be practical and helpful to consumers that are in market so that they choose you over your competitors. Brands that are airing in TV messages with no voiceover or they aren't getting full credit for their spot. We talked about that a couple weeks ago. You know, ensuring that we know early what brand we're talking about. They aren't giving practical ways for consumers to transact with that brand or insight into where to buy. We're leaving money on the table. The art of storytelling in TV is a balance and it's an and not an or to being available and practically helpful to those in market consumers to.
- [12:36]
Rob DeMars
Bring it back to the hero journey. How often as marketers do we say product as hero? You know, and you think about, well, if you have a hero, then who is the villain? Right? Who's the villain in the situation? And even identifying that on your creative brief, right, like what are we fighting against now? Is just what you're fighting for, but what are you fighting against? And then how do you demonstra show that journey that hero is going on in terms of demonstrating the product's effectiveness, not just the features but the benefits? Right, like those are all parts of the story as well.
- [13:09]
Angela Voss
Absolutely. And I think a lot of marketers, when they're at a phase where they know they need to add more story and it can be scary for them, they've maybe been, you know, really practically in market A B testing different messages and understanding what drives that immediate performance. This is part of the reason, not the only, but a piece to the reason why we built in pre testing to our offering. Originally it was panel based audiences and animatics. Now it's AI based with our scripts product to ensure that story is going to drive in market consumers to action and we have a lot of options. Right? And so what will resonate with that core audience and drive, you know, broader relevance?
- [13:54]
Rob DeMars
I mean, clearly I should have pretested my yogurt story before I told it. So I agree, you know, pre testing is great and it really does help remove the risk because stories should be bold, right? They should be engaging, but you want to make sure you're telling the right one.
- [14:10]
Alena Jasper
Sometimes I think it's harder to tell a simple story, but a lot more effective. I noticed one of the super bowl commercials this year for, I think it was for Duncan. It felt like they had a million different stories within the same ad. And I think other ads that were more singularly focused, those just resonated a lot more with me. Like we can only follow so many different plots.
- [14:31]
Rob DeMars
I love that. It also holds true with what do you say about the product itself? Not just the storyline that's introduced, but focus on one simple thing and don't try to say it can do this, it can do this. And that's just a classic fail. And again, yeah, you're right. Simple is simple. It's a good thing.
- [14:48]
Angela Voss
When you think about story across your channels, think of the channel and its superpower. So TV as a broad reach, as an example, hits a lot of people. So what's that highest order universal benefit, potentially, that pulls in the most relevance across a broad group of individuals and then go from there.
- [15:09]
Alena Jasper
Well, speaking of brands that do this well and commercials that do this well, I wanted to end with some examples. And lucky for us, there are a lot of great ones to choose from, but we each just prepared one today. So, Ang, do you want to get us started?
- [15:22]
Angela Voss
Yes. I'm starting in the insurance category with Progressive and their parent amorphous campaign. I think probably more people know of this as the becoming your parents. Try to not become your parents with Dr. Rick. Love this. It's engaging, it's memorable. Instead of simply pushing their product, Progressive taps into this insight that at some point we all start turning into our parents. I'm doing that. I know I am, especially after buying a home. And by taking this insight and these dramatic yet playful moments in an exaggerated way, the campaign just instantly connects with homeowners who recognize behaviors in themselves or in others. And I think what really makes this campaign particularly effective is the episodic storytelling nature of it. You know, instead of these one off disconnected ads, they've built this ongoing narrative where audiences get to see different. They're sort of like patients, you know, experiencing their own versions of the same problem. And that repetition reinforces the campaign's humor and makes that brand messaging feel fresh with each new version or installment. And viewers don't just remember the joke, they get to sort of anticipate the next chapter just as they would with like a beloved sitcom character or something like that. And to my point earlier, we're not only storytelling, we're also offering practical ways to connect with the brand for consumers that are thinking that it's time to shop for insurance. So they've done a great job there.
- [16:56]
Rob DeMars
The episodic nature of it too. Just the idea is legs, right? The story has legs. And yeah, it's a great example.
- [17:02]
Angela Voss
What's yours, Rob?
- [17:03]
Rob DeMars
I didn't watch the super bowl, but I did watch the commercials after the super bowl, and I loved the title of this one, which you don't normally get the title right when you. But this one, just when you read it in the press and it just screams story. The call of the mustaches. And this was for Pringles, right? You all saw the example of the, you know, the gentleman is at the party. And he blows into the Pringles can. Like, it's some sort of call to arms horn, you know, again, great product involvement. Can't do that with a bag of chips. Right. And then all of a sudden, from around the world, mustaches start jumping off of people's faces and they go on an epic journey and they fly through the cityscape and into the stores to, you know, to. To gather the Pringles and to try to save the day. And I just love that ad for so many reasons. I'm excited to see what they do with that, because I think they should do more with it, if they haven't already. It's just so inherent to the brand. It has this wonderful wink to the mustache. Right. Which we all have adore and love now over the years. And being able to do something that' so ownable in an epic way, an adventure, you know, it was just. It was fun to watch. It was fun to talk about after. So I think it was a. It was a great job of storytelling. It was a sad ending, though. That's the only thing they did. The mustaches end up getting foiled and they hit the window of the.
- [18:30]
Angela Voss
Oh, that's right.
- [18:32]
Rob DeMars
You know, so the. The hero. I don't know that. That maybe is the. The one little element, or maybe that was the. The surprise. I don't know. But I guess the person did end up getting their Pringles, though. He ran into the store, I think. So there you go.
- [18:44]
Alena Jasper
Yeah. The consumer was the hero, I suppose, at the end of that one, getting the Pringles. Yeah. I think that's such a great example of just. They might have done the best job of any brand with distinctive assets in a commercial. They've got their unique logo. What a great idea to focus on the mustache because that is so distinct. And then their packaging, once again, like, using it as a horn. I know in the past they've had people's hands stuck in.
- [19:05]
Rob DeMars
Yes.
- [19:05]
Alena Jasper
And, like, that's just the packaging alone is such a great distinctive asset for Pringles.
- [19:11]
Rob DeMars
I think for me personally, where something like that goes wrong, because ironically, Little Caesars did the Eugene Levy eyebrow popping off his head. That's just gross. And I don't connect it to the brand. And I. You know, that was borrowed interest. You know, where Pringles didn't borrow anything. It was inherent to their brand and you liked it.
- [19:31]
Angela Voss
We had a lot of facial reference during the super bowl, didn't we? Between the eyebrows, the mustache, the tongue with coffee mate. It was a lot of face stuff.
- [19:41]
Rob DeMars
Yeah, it's true.
- [19:42]
Angela Voss
Yeah. Elena, what's yours? We were both using humor.
- [19:46]
Alena Jasper
Yeah. Mine is more emotional, and I think maybe it's just because of my personality. I'm kind of sappy. When I watch the super bowl ads, I usually tend to prefer more of, like, the emotional ones. The ones that hit you in the feels more than humor. And I don't know which is riskier for a brand when you're telling a story, because humor can really fall flat, but emotion can also fall flat. I think there maybe were a few of those ads this year during the super bowl where they were trying really hard to play on heartstrings, and it maybe just didn't connect to the brand or it just didn't feel authentic to us. But one ad that I think is an excellent example of storytelling is back in 2016. It was centered around the Rio Olympics. It was from P and G called thank you, Mom. I don't know if you. Have you seen this ad before?
- [20:30]
Angela Voss
I think I do remember this.
- [20:31]
Rob DeMars
Yeah. Describe it.
- [20:32]
Alena Jasper
They open on different scenes of a mom and their child and kind of going through trying situations in life and kind of have these flashbacks of the past in the future, showing their mom supporting them at the Olympics. And they have this iconic line. It takes someone strong to make someone strong. So they're showing just your mom being there for you when you're little and some of the situations you go through where, like, you just need your mom to carry you through. And then they show up here up just.
- [20:58]
Angela Voss
When you're describing it, I don't even have to see it.
- [21:01]
Alena Jasper
It makes me cry.
- [21:02]
Rob DeMars
Did the mom have a mustache and.
- [21:04]
Alena Jasper
Then a mustache, like, flew off of her face? No, but they showed, like, real clips of Olympic athletes, like, hugging their moms in the stands. And it's like you could be in a. Even a traumatic situation when you're little. Like, there were some pretty shocking scenes, like, of a car accident that really got your attention. But then you see them standing about to compete in the biggest stage. It's like the common thing is your mom needing that. That support system and them always being there. And, yeah, it definitely makes me cry whenever I watch it, but it's a good cry.
- [21:32]
Angela Voss
Mom's at the best. Obviously, it worked.
- [21:35]
Alena Jasper
It was memorable, definitely. All right, well, I thought we could end with something fun. Today. I came up with a game. It's called Name that Story. So we just talked about how powerful stories are. So I'm hoping that this game helps confirm that. I'm hoping you can guess these, and we could prove that a great story really is memorable. So I'm going to give you a few details, and then you're going to guess the story.
- [21:56]
Rob DeMars
Okay. And Star Wars.
- [21:59]
Alena Jasper
That's actually not one of them, but, yeah, that would have been a good one. All right, Harry Potter. Rob, stop guessing. Just listen to the clues. All right, Two people from very different backgrounds fall in love. Their love story is cut short by an unexpected disaster. One of them makes it Romeo and Juliet. No, One of them makes it. The other does not.
- [22:21]
Angela Voss
Unexpectedly, cut short by a disaster.
- [22:24]
Rob DeMars
I was gonna go the Romeo and Juliet, too. It's a disaster. So someone dies of a terminal illness or something, and it's sad and I'm gonna cry.
- [22:34]
Alena Jasper
It's not an illness. It's more of a. I guess you could say a natural disaster.
- [22:38]
Rob DeMars
This is a very good story.
- [22:40]
Alena Jasper
No, it's actually not. It's a sad story.
- [22:44]
Angela Voss
Oh, a natural disaster.
- [22:48]
Alena Jasper
I wouldn't know if you call it natural.
- [22:49]
Angela Voss
Oh, Titanic.
- [22:50]
Alena Jasper
Yes. There you go.
- [22:51]
Rob DeMars
Oh, yeah.
- [22:53]
Alena Jasper
I guess the unexpected disaster is. It's hard to describe Titanic without giving away what it is.
- [23:00]
Rob DeMars
I think it's. That's deep on so many levels. Like, that just goes to show you that nobody actually cared about the boat. They just cared about Jack and whatever her name was. You know, it's like Jack and Rose.
- [23:14]
Angela Voss
Oh, the amount of times I watched Titanic.
- [23:16]
Rob DeMars
Oh, okay. No, that's. That's a great, great movie.
- [23:20]
Alena Jasper
All right. Story 2. A young girl pretends to be someone she's not. To protect her family, she trains in combat and proves herself against impossible odds.
- [23:29]
Angela Voss
Mulan.
- [23:30]
Alena Jasper
Yes. Oh, Ange's crushing it. All right. A young orphan learns he has extraordinary abilities. He goes to a special school to Harry Potter. I did have that one in there.
- [23:43]
Angela Voss
That's why she yelled at you. Stop guessing.
- [23:46]
Alena Jasper
This one's fun. I'll give it away. It's a film. It's such a great example of storytelling because this is actually a story within a story in the film. Okay, so father is taken from his son at a young age. The son grows up seeking revenge against the person responsible. When he finally faces his enemy, he delivers an unforgettable line before fighting.
- [24:05]
Rob DeMars
Holy smokes. Can you do that again?
- [24:08]
Alena Jasper
All right. A father is taken from his son at a young age. The son grows up seeking revenge against the person responsible.
- [24:14]
Angela Voss
Well, this is Star Wars.
- [24:15]
Rob DeMars
No, no, It's. It's Gladiator 2.
- [24:18]
Alena Jasper
No, it's not. When he finally. Here, I'll give you a bigger hint. When he finally faces his six fingered enemy, he delivers an unforgettable line. Do you not know what this is?
- [24:27]
Angela Voss
Goodness, I. I had Luke, I am your father in my head.
- [24:30]
Rob DeMars
Six fingered enemy. What? I don't know.
- [24:33]
Alena Jasper
I bet there's people listening, like, screaming right now. How do you not know what this is?
- [24:37]
Angela Voss
Six fingers.
- [24:38]
Alena Jasper
Oh, he delivers an iconic line. My name is blank. You killed my father. Slim Shady, prepare to die. No.
- [24:47]
Rob DeMars
Oh, I hate that movie. The Princess Bride. I hate that movie that. You know, I'm one of the few human beings that just do not find that movie. I do not find that movie funny.
- [25:00]
Angela Voss
No, I'm with you, Rob, on that.
- [25:02]
Rob DeMars
I even re. Watched it because so many people talk about how funny. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna. Except when I was younger, I watched, like, I'm gonna watch it again. I did, like, two years ago. I'm like, I. I don't. I don't get it. And I actually have insulted people when I've said that before. Like, people take that movie that, like.
- [25:17]
Angela Voss
We just lost listeners because of you.
- [25:19]
Rob DeMars
I know.
- [25:20]
Alena Jasper
All right, well, I like Princess Bride. Okay, let's go. Last one. We have one more here.
- [25:23]
Rob DeMars
Oh, okay.
- [25:24]
Alena Jasper
Okay. A person finds themselves stranded far from home. They have to survive using only their stories. There you go.
- [25:30]
Rob DeMars
And you crush it. I've never seen Mulan. Is that weird?
- [25:34]
Alena Jasper
Oh, Rob, you gotta see Mulan.
- [25:36]
Rob DeMars
I've never seen it. It just didn't jump out. I think it was maybe the time when my kids were not that a. Or whatever.
- [25:43]
Alena Jasper
You know, I'm surprised you didn't watch it with your daughter.
- [25:46]
Rob DeMars
Wasn't into that one. I do like Pixar, you know, they make. They make some good movies. Toy Story. Actually, Toy Story is a fantastic example of the hero's journey.
- [25:56]
Angela Voss
Absolutely.
- [25:57]
Rob DeMars
Because Woody originally was supposed to be a jerk. Did you know that?
- [26:05]
Alena Jasper
No.
- [26:05]
Rob DeMars
And this gentleman who happened to be a part owner of Pixar, his name is Steve Jobs, came in and said, no, Woody needs to be nice. And so they change. Like, talk about genius, right? I mean, Steve Jobs gave us the iPhone, and he gave us, like, the good version of Toy Story.
- [26:24]
Angela Voss
Huh?
- [26:25]
Alena Jasper
Well, he understood storytelling.
- [26:27]
Angela Voss
Yeah.
- [26:27]
Alena Jasper
Maybe the best of any founder.
- [26:29]
Rob DeMars
So there you go.
- [26:31]
Alena Jasper
That's it for this episode of the Marketing Architects. We'd like to thank Taylor De Los Reyes for producing the show. You can connect with us on LinkedIn. And if you like the podcast, please leave us a review. Now go forth and build great marketing.
- [26:46]
Rob DeMars
Way to close the loop on that one, Elena. God, you should go. You should be a host of, like, a podcast.
- [26:53]
Alena Jasper
Yeah. You talk about Apple enough that I'm now prepared. I know all the references.
- [26:58]
Angela Voss
She spends time on the weekends studying.
- [27:00]
Alena Jasper
About it marketing architects.