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The Marketing Architects
Marketing's Role in Product with Jaime LaMontagne
00:38:13
In healthcare marketing, product and marketing are inseparable. But in many industries, marketers have become disconnected from the products they promote. What does this mean for marketing effectiveness? Exact Sciences CMO Jaime LaMontagne joins...
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- [00:01]
Alaina Jasper
Hello, this is Alaina, and you're about to listen to an episode of a new series we're calling the Effectiveness Workshop. After recording over a hundred episodes of this show exploring marketing effectiveness, we realized we wanted more direct insights from CMOs who are applying these principles in their daily work. So we're introducing a new format where we chat with some incredibly smart marketers and jump right into practical takeaways to help you advance your career and your brand. I hope that you like it. Enjoy the show. Marketing Effectiveness. What's your marketing philosophy?
- [00:31]
Angela Voss
What does marketing affect? Effectiveness.
- [00:34]
Alaina Jasper
Welcome to the Effectiveness workshop.
- [00:37]
Jamie Lamontine
Marketing Architects.
- [00:39]
Alaina Jasper
Hello and welcome to the Marketing Architects, a research first podcast dedicated to answering your toughest marketing questions. I'm Alina Jasper. I run the marketing team here at Marketing Architects. And I'm joined by my co host, Angela Voss, the CEO of Marketing Architects. And we're joined by a guest today, Jamie Lamontine, the CMO of Exact Sciences. Jamie spent years driving growth in healthcare marketing, including over 17 years at Medtronic, where she led marketing for major parts of their business, including their medical education team, as well as global marketing for their cardiac rhythm management division, which includes products like pacemakers. Now at Exact Sciences, which owns a variety of brands like Cologuard, she's making a real impact in cancer diagnostics, helping to ensure health solutions reach people who need the most. Jamie has expertise in united marketing with product a passion for today's evolving consumer a and I like to think she's a Minnesotan at heart, so what's not to love there? Welcome, Jamie.
- [01:35]
Angela Voss
Thank you for having me.
- [01:37]
Jamie Lamontine
Oh, thanks so much for joining us. It's fun to have you on the show. I'm Minnesotan on the show. I know we ran into each other at the recent ANA event, so, so happy to get you to join us today. So you spent two tours at Medtronic and you've got this extensive background in healthcare marketing. What drew you to that unique challenge of marketing in such a highly regulated industry? Like what keeps you motivated to make an impact there?
- [02:01]
Angela Voss
Yeah, Angela, two tours, 18 years at Medtronic, but really kind of got the bug right out of college, really. The med device space, the kind of healthcare industry at large. I think I was drawn to this industry because the impact that it makes on patients lives directly. It does have a lot of unique challenges. Marketers need to understand the diseases that they're working within, the current treatments for those diseases. We have to connect across many different stakeholders, like physicians to the engineers, understanding the challenges that they face in treating those diseases and then ultimately identifying ways to improve patient care. And that's really deeply motivating. When you meet these patients, when you work with these physicians and kind of when you bring these elements together to ultimately create a new solution, you're not just advancing medicine, but you're actually helping those physicians or healthcare providers provide better patient care and ultimately helping patients live longer, fuller lives. So really, that kind of sense of purpose has always really kept me energized in this space and, and keeps me, you know, very committed and motivated to, to continue such a cool journey.
- [03:15]
Jamie Lamontine
I think we all look for purpose in what we do, and we'll find it kind of in some capacity. But yours is a little more direct, perhaps. So congratulations on everything you've done so far.
- [03:25]
Angela Voss
I think when people get into this space, it's really hard to get out. But I do say, like, there's some days I'm like, ah, be kind of nice to market Cheerios. But I still, you know, you have those moments where you're, where you really see the impact worth it.
- [03:39]
Alaina Jasper
Well, we're glad you stuck with it because we're excited to learn from you today. I think that you have this expertise in a complex industry and a lot to share, so we're excited to have you here. And as always, we're here with our thoughts on some recent marketing news. As a reminder, we try to root our opinions in data research and what drives business, business results. And this interview with Jamie. It's part of our effectiveness workshop where we talk to marketing leaders who are leading the way for effectiveness in the US And I usually kick off these interviews with a piece of research or an article. And Jamie and I were able to chat a bit before we scheduled this interview. And I learned more about her experience being tied closely to product, which is not always the case for marketers. So I found a perfect article to tee us up. It's from no surprise, Mark Gritson for Marketing Week, and it's titled Liquid Death's Fame shows how badly marketers neglect production. And in the article, Ritson critiques a brand that's often revered in marketing circles, and that is Liquid Death. Liquid Death is known for edgy branding, bold packaging and viral marketing. But Ritson believes it reveals a bit of a deeper issue in the way we approach marketing. Today. We celebrate their promotional genius, but might overlook the actual product. And despite its cult following, Liquid Death remains a small player compared to beverage giants like Coke, which I found this shocking. Generates Liquid Death's annual revenue in just three days. And Ritson reminds us that marketing's responsibility doesn't end with comms. Product quality and value should always come first. He believes we've become too focused on creating buzz and miss opportunities to understand what we're really marketing. So, Jamie, thank you again for joining that article. It's in Ritson's a little bit of controversial style, but I think the takeaway is still relevant and worth discussing. So let's start here. Why do you think that marketing often becomes disconnected from product?
- [05:24]
Angela Voss
That's a great question. I really loved that article. Thank you for, for highlighting it. In my experience, and I think this is somewhat unique to my industry, is that really product and marketing are inseparable. But as you called out, this experience, this learning is definitely not universal. But I do think that marketing can become disconnected when the marketer really gets disconnected to the why behind the product. Why was this product developed? What's the value that it's meant to provide? And I think that's kind of what's being called out here with liquid death. What's the value of this water other than the cool marketing and the cool packaging and the calm? So I think when a product really no longer meets those kind of those value expectations, you know, that's really when you start to see that, that kind of disconnect. And it's in my case, that would be time to innovate. So for me, I've always prioritized getting out to customers, getting out to customers as early and often as possible, understanding how your products are used, the challenges that they solve and address, as well as the value that they provide, the environment that product is used in, those are all extremely important insights into how that product needs to be marketed. When you really understand how the customers are using it, interacting with it, that is gold for marketing. And so it's really that kind of constant connection between the product, the customer and the marketer. For example, for me, in the cardiac surgery space, you know, I observed many surgeries. It was amazing. Open heart surgery, seeing the heart beat, the lungs contract, how these surgeons do what they do every day. But being in that environment, hearing them work, you know, working with the team, not just with the surgeons, but with their team, experiencing the pressures that they face. This was extremely important insights into what I needed to bring back to the product team, to my engineers, and then also how to market that product to better help those surgeons and meet those needs. So for me, ultimately, staying super connected to the why and the constant kind of change around the why and the value that that product provides is to me, the marketing gold. And when there's that disconnect between that, that's, I think, when you start to have those challenges.
- [07:34]
Alaina Jasper
So it sounds like it's about coming back to, like, what the customer wants, understanding their needs, the why behind the product, which, if it sounds like it makes so much sense. But it's funny how it's easy for marketers to sometimes get disconnected from that. Do you have any kind of tips for marketing teams? Like, if they're not naturally as aligned to product as you are, how else could they get closer to it and maybe contribute to making it better?
- [07:59]
Angela Voss
I do. See sometimes you get locked into your brand plan or you get locked into the, to the latest insights, but how do you really get close to it? And I think that for me, having 25 years now in marketing and specifically in this space, I think a big learning for me was doing that whole process. So my advice to marketers would be try to get stints on the product side of the business. So I started off in the kind of what we call the upstream marketing function, which is really those early upstream product decisions, starting from a concept and getting through what those customer requirements are going to be for that product, kind of living that role. I understood what it was like, how did they make those decisions? How do they reconcile different opinions? And then later, when I was in the downstream side of the marketing engine, so that was more launching the products, managing the products through the life cycle, I understood kind of what was going on in the product side. I could bring those insights back to them and what would be valuable and vice versa. And part of it too is also understanding why did the product team make the decision that they did? You know, why did they make the product blue? Why did they make it 3 inches rather than 5 inches? Those are really important insights. And so I think just my advice to the marketing team would be just communicate over, communicate, share, find those connections. And then from a career perspective, if you have that opportunity, do both sides of the process because it's invaluable insights into kind of how each side comes to that final kind of product or solution. And then lastly, I would just say it's about curiosity, always asking good questions, kind of understanding the why behind those decisions, observing, connecting those dots. When you're on the marketing side, when you have that curiosity and you're bringing that back to the product team, that's gold, you know, that ultimately helps them shape their next product.
- [09:55]
Alaina Jasper
That's interesting that you worked in kind of those different areas, I think, and some of Our clients, we're hearing that more and more that they actually have a system where marketers will move kind of from different parts of the business. And it seems like that makes a really well rounded marketer.
- [10:09]
Jamie Lamontine
Absolutely. Yeah, we see that more and more.
- [10:11]
Angela Voss
I think it's super important because you don't really understand what it's like to be on the front end of things. And I would say that I've seen a lot of people that really love to do the beginning part of it because they get to make the decision on like, what does this thing look like? And then those people also are interested in launching it and seeing it come to fruition, Seeing kind of both sides of the coin, having both those experiences, I think make a really well rounded marketer.
- [10:37]
Alaina Jasper
Well, Jamie, you mentioned communication and the importance of clear communication. And one thing I really wanted to talk to you about is how you manage having all these messages to different stakeholders and different groups. You speak to doctors and patients and regulators. And I think when I hear about marketers, to even have like a two sided marketplace, I start to think like, oh my goodness, that'd be so overwhelming. I'm glad that I don't have to manage that. But you're in a unique spot where you're managing even more than that. So how do you think about communicating, you know, your product value clearly to each group?
- [11:10]
Angela Voss
Elena, that's a really, really good question. I don't think people truly kind of understand that for health marketing and med tech marketing, and it is really complex at times and very nuanced. But one of the things we do is use something called a claims matrix or kind of a communication plan. And ultimately what we do is we look at kind of what is the product value, what are the problems for each of those stakeholders that we want to solve. And then how do we actually kind of create almost ultimately a cohesive kind of product message matrix? And so you have kind of your value prop, your ultimate value proposition for your products. But then that has specific nuances because as you call out, we have regulators like the FDA that require accuracy and tons of data. You have health systems like a Mayo or a Kaiser and payers who are looking for like, why do I want this product? What's the value that we're going to get at a system level versus the price that the company is charging. Physicians need information. Why should I choose this product versus a different product? And they need to feel really comfortable with wanting to use your product. So there's education involved there. And then of course the patients you have to kind of hit them at that moment in their journey, Whether it's awareness, do they have this disease, what are the options to treat this disease? And then how do we help them manage kind of post treatment or post product? Those are all interconnected, but to your point, slightly different and with slightly different messaging. So again, we use this tool for what we call the claims matrix or communication matrix. That really helps us kind of stay centered to our core value proposition. But then we use specific kind of sub messages. So for example, for health systems, it will be, you know, how does this product help them from an operational efficiency perspective or to be the innovative leader in their community? And then for physicians, it's specifically around how they can use this product for which types of patient. Ultimately, you know, it's complex, but I think once you're in the midst of it, you know, kind of becomes second nature. But it's so important to have that connected communication strategy so that you have really clear, concise messages. And then ultimately, from a regulatory perspective that we see on message, seems like.
- [13:29]
Jamie Lamontine
There'S a lot to solve for there. Jamie, we have a little bit of experience working in the healthcare space. Even as a product development company. We produced, marketed, and ultimately ended up selling the Hurricane, the number one cane sold in America. We sold it to Drive Medical several years ago. So a little bit of experience there, and we've got clients that operate in this space as well. And I feel one thing that we experience and we see our clients experiencing is with so much to solve for from a communication standpoint, sometimes it's hard to potentially get to that big idea. So how to strike a balance between innovative marketing and adhering to either all of the constituents that need to understand what the product is, how it serves the consumer, or even just the rigorous standards of the healthcare world? Like, how do you balance that?
- [14:21]
Angela Voss
It is tough at times, and those are those days that I'm like, I should maybe do Cheerios or somebody else, but it goes back to kind of the value. And I think one of the advantages of our products is it usually does take us a while to get it from concept to market. So we do have time. And part of that is starting early. So here are the things that I want to be able to say and then working with your regulatory and legal partners to say, can we say this? Are you comfortable with this? What data or evidence or information do we have to support the things that we want to say? And so my biggest advice is start early, because the more time you have to negotiate and work through Those things, the faster you'll be able to move when you're actually at launch. But yeah, so healthcare marketing does operate under really strict standards. You know, when you see the commercials or you get any sort of materials as a potential patient, that's many, many hours of work and debate that happens. And that of course, then that really does shape our ability to be creative. And while we may not like push the limits like some consumer brands like Liquid Death, for example, creativity is about finding ultimately compelling ways to move our customers forward. Changing the behavior of a physician, for example, or providing information to a patient that could potentially use your product. And this ultimately, like all of marketing, that creativity will move those physicians or others from kind of awareness to loyalty to our product. And I remember an example really early on in my career that really shaped this for me. I was working on a urology product for bph and that's benign prostatic hyperplasia. And ultimately that's for men. It affects men and it affects their ability to go to the bathroom. So they feel like they have to and then they get there and then they can't. So I actually proposed a bathroom stall poster because of course, what, what better moment to. To.
- [16:18]
Alaina Jasper
It's a category entry point for sure.
- [16:21]
Angela Voss
They are motivated and in that moment. And that poster had a waterfall image and it was to show flow. Right? That's what we were going to be helping them do, right? Well, unfortunately, my legal team was like, no, sorry, can't do that. And it was because that visual implied in their minds more improvement than what our product, you know, has shown in clinical evidence. It was one of those moments going, but it's illustrative, it's metaphorical. Like this is not like really you're looking at this waterfall and saying, yeah, but it was one of those moments where I'm like, wow, okay, creativity. But within kind of this construct of the healthcare environment. And so from that day forward, you have to push, push the boundaries. But at the same time, there's always balancing the creative with client side. And also, I mean, that makes sense. You don't want to over promise to a consumer, to a patient, more than you can deliver. So that's ultimately the balance that we constantly have to strike.
- [17:23]
Jamie Lamontine
You know, you've worked in healthcare, when you're talking about and so deeply understanding implied versus stated claims, you're hitting my heart there. We understand that. Well, healthcare is just a field where it feels like there's so much ongoing innovation. If you think about the consumer experience, we've got telehealth we can now do cancer screening via USPS mail or FedEx mail. And Elena mentioned in the introduction your passion for understanding today's evolving customer. How have your customer behaviors, their expectations shifted over the years and how do you adapt your marketing strategies to really stay aligned with what's the consumer is ultimately looking for?
- [18:05]
Angela Voss
I think between kind of COVID and just the change of of our environment, the biggest shift I've seen is with patients, actually. So, you know, when I talk to physicians 20 years ago, even our, like my parents or even my grandparents, it was like the doctor said do X, they did X. Patients just, they didn't do a lot of research. They went in, the doctor said we need to do X and they did it. They really followed those recommendations or they completely ignored it, but they didn't find alternatives. And I would say now what we're seeing is patients are so much more empowered. You're seeing the virtual health movement going online and seeking your own care, seeking prescriptions like a Hims and hers, for example. Patients are seeking multiple opinions. They're using consumer devices like Apple watches to track arrhythmias or to really understand their heart rate and in some cases actually seeing when they have a potential arrhythmia. And then patients really want control of their data. They don't mind when their report is sent to their doctor, but they also want to see that report. So the biggest shift that I've seen in my team is having to adapt to is this kind of changing dynamic with patients because physicians are not necessarily ready for their patients to be as on top of this or have as much of an opinion as they once had. And so a huge challenge for us is how do we balance this? How do we keep our physicians happy but also make the patients happy? So for example, like a pacemaker, you know, it's in a patient's body for 15 years, it literally knows every heartbeat. It knows when you sleep, it knows when you're moving, it knows everything about what you're doing and really does circles around an Apple watch as far as accuracy. And patients ask us for their data, they want to know what's going on with their pacemaker. Well, then physicians would hesitate to say, well, I don't want to share that. It's really complex, those types of things. And so how do you balance that? I think is going to be a big challenge moving forward around what information is something that the patient gets to control versus the physician helping them navigate through that. And so I think that's this kind of changing Patient consumer in the challenge of healthcare marketing when really their voice was kind of a secondary voice of the physician. And in some markets it's becoming almost primary message.
- [20:31]
Jamie Lamontine
You're totally right. We're so much more empowered as consumers today, even about our health. And I think we can debate. Is that right? So much self diagnosis. We've got so much access to information today. Just had a conversation with my husband four hours ago about him deciding he needs a metabolic panel done. He, he wants to make sure it's got a CBC read. He knows what that means. I don't, but it sounds like that should be coming from someone else than him.
- [20:57]
Angela Voss
Well, I think if he does it, will he actually be able to interpret the results? I think that's the physician dynamic. It's like, well, but are they going to have the right people there to walk them through that information or help them understand?
- [21:09]
Jamie Lamontine
Yeah, right. But we just feel like we have so many ways to interpret that. I know when my mom was going through a battle with cancer we would get from the Mayo Clinic readouts right in the portal. They just happen like immediately and you're like, I have no idea what this says, but now I can take that into something like a ChatGPT and get a really simple interpretation of what it means. And of course I want the doctor to confirm that is true. But it's just a different time.
- [21:37]
Angela Voss
It is. And everybody is, is slightly different. I think that's again, the marketing challenge is you have patients who are, who just don't want to engage at all with the information and you have others that are super on top of it and they're going to put it into chat GPT and try to understand and do more research. Right. So as a marketer, how do you deal with kind of that huge range of potential patients, like wanting to interact with you in your product while also managing the physicians who choose your product and you know, making sure that they don't get upset if you're, you know, going too far from what they want. So yeah, back to your. The complexity of all the stakeholders. How do you kind of keep everybody happy? But also, you know, moving forward, it.
- [22:21]
Jamie Lamontine
Feels like another area where consumer behavior is shifted is just around what we consume from a media perspective. So going into that side of things without diving into specifics, it's clear that you bring extensive experience across various marketing channels, including television. And I'm curious how you think marketers should approach the balance between long term brand building. Screening for colon cancer is not potentially something that we think about many Many years in advance, although we should have that awareness, but then also that short term demand when someone is in market and I'm like, boom, I'm 45. Apparently that's the magic number. That's when I should start screening. How do you balance those two, knowing that every consumer is in a little bit of a different phase?
- [23:10]
Angela Voss
I think balance is key, especially in healthcare because as you're calling out, you know, it's not like Doritos or something where you see a commercial and you can immediately go to Amazon and buy some or go to Target or do what you need to do, you know, the healthcare, it's creating that awareness that when in that moment you have that memory. So I think balance is key because as you were calling out with cologuard, this is a non invasive at home test for colon cancer screening and the screening age starts at 45. Well, if someone sees our ad on television who's 43 or 44, you know, our goal is when they are with their doctor and they do turn 45, we had enough of that television seed to have them know our brand and be able to remember that this was an alternative and ask their physicians for it. So definitely television is that long awareness tale that's super important. But meanwhile, you know, we do need the demand capture channels, the short term, quick, because those are those moments where they're actively thinking about screening. We want to get them to the information that they need. So 100%, Angela, we have to do both because especially in healthcare, not everything is something that a consumer is going to need in that moment. So you need really that, that television, long term kind of channel mixed with the short term direct action search to get them what they need right when they need it.
- [24:37]
Jamie Lamontine
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that ties then right into how do we know things are working. Marketing measurement is a challenge for every brand. It's likely even more complex for the brands you lead, given the, the diverse stakeholders. So how do you think about demonstrating that impact of marketing efforts both long and short? You talked a little bit about brand awareness, of course, but the balance between the two and ultimately trying to drive growth for the company, it's a constant challenge.
- [25:05]
Angela Voss
And I think that the industry as well as just the function around marketing metrics, I think is constantly evolving and trying to improve. I think for me, we really try to start with clear objectives and identify how we want to measure those outcomes. So it's really a mix of metrics tailored to kind of the audiences that we are going after as well as our goals. So for example, for physicians, we track metrics like adoption, their usage of our product, their engagement with education, content that kind of shows their interests and their involvement and ultimately kind of signs of their loyalty for patients, brand awareness, understanding. Do they know at 45 they need to screen where is our brand sitting within that awareness? But then also your kind of more typical marketing things like content engagements, clicks, video watching, conversion rates. One of the things that we're trying to figure out is how do you really connect the top to the bottom. So it's very hard for us in medical marketing to connect like a, a very top of funnel activity to did they actually get our product? And so we are still working through how do you make those connections using Journey orchestration in different ways where we're trying to really connect those dots through the tech stack. But it's a constant kind of improvement test and learn environment. We regularly review the metrics and adjust our strategy to try to ensure that we're measuring our activity and our value. But it's a constant improvement cycle for sure.
- [26:38]
Alaina Jasper
Yeah, I think we can relate to that a little bit. We definitely share a belief in using multiple models and seems like you're focusing on improvement over time. One thing you said a little earlier was the way you think about tv. You're thinking about not just who's in market today, but reaching who's going to be in market. And we wish that every marketer could look at TV that way because that's what it's so great at. And that concept of hitting people who are out of market, it's one that's closely tied to marketing effectiveness. And we're a little bit obsessed with marketing effectiveness on the show. We're excited about it becoming better known in the United States. So we like to ask all of our guests, what does marketing effectiveness mean to you? And I don't know if you've seen there's been some critique over the United States. Are we behind? Would you agree that there's some sort of gap here in the US at.
- [27:24]
Angela Voss
Least in my industry I don't necessarily see a gap, but I do think just in general we have an opportunity to improve marketing effectiveness. I think for me it's complex because of all those different stakeholders engaging the right audience in that moment. There's a different cycle of product and I think that's probably maybe a little bit different too is it's having a product that truly meets and exceeds the customer needs. To me that that is like the basics of marketing effectiveness. So to me the product is Kind of central to that and then everything else builds on top of it. So when that product delivers value, whether that's improving patient outcomes or making physicians jobs easier or better, you know, the marketing kind of naturally resonates then because it's not smoke and mirrors like it is. Literally you are making a impact and that ultimately then drives customer acquisition, brand loyalty, business growth, that kind of leads to the larger marketing effectiveness. So for me, that is really the central tenet is when you create value for both the customer and the business, you're going to see those great marketing outcomes.
- [28:31]
Jamie Lamontine
That's great that you feel your space is doing this. Well, I think there's a lot of spaces that don't feel that way and where there's a lot of room for growth, which of course is an opportunity to be excited about. On this podcast, we really like to explore bold contrarian perspectives that ultimately lead to effectiveness, even if they challenge popular opinion or industry norms, which in a lot of cases they do. I mean, I think just the focus on long is a contrarian perspective. With the growth of digital, everyone got so short term minded. So when we think about a brand like Cologuard, back to that, what percent of Americans are turning 45 this year? I don't know, maybe like 2. Like that's the. The 95 matters a lot. So with that in mind, what's your most contrarian marketing belief? Maybe something that would surprise others or that you find people push back against kind of in a status quo in a meaningful way.
- [29:26]
Angela Voss
I think it's time for a contrarian corner. I think that my biggest contrarian marketing opinion is really around what I call calling your baby ugly. And whenever I say that to people, they always look at me, you know, kind of like, what do you mean? But for me, what I've learned in my career is that marketers are kind of expected to like be the biggest cheerleader for their products. And so I think when you're in that seat, you think you have to sell everybody on your product. And that is important. So what I say to my team all the time is, no, no, no, for me, I want you first to call your baby ugly. Like I want you to kick it apart, pull it apart, figure out why the competition's going to say something different. Why is the customer not going to want your product? What are the reasons why they may not choose your product? What are the alternatives? I need you to break this thing apart because if you don't do it, someone else will. And so to me, that's the first job of a product marketer, or a marketer in general, is to do that first. And then you can become the biggest cheerleader because you covered that off. But I get the funniest expressions when I say that to people because they look at me like I'm supposed to really love. I'm the owner of this product, I need to love it. You will, but first you need to call your baby ugly.
- [30:44]
Jamie Lamontine
I love that. That's a much more fun way to say. I think internally we say we need to mine for dissension. We have an obligation to debate what's right and to assume that we have it wrong. I think so many, whether you're in marketing or any field, can get into just status quo. What we're doing is working. And in a world where there is so much innovation and disruption happening, it's on us to find those pieces before someone else does to expose. So one last question for you. On the show, we really aim to blend insights and principles with actionable advice. And so reflecting on your career, what's one of the best decisions you've ever made as a marketer? And then maybe on the flip side, what's one lesson you've learned that has shaped, you know, something that you'd maybe never do again?
- [31:34]
Angela Voss
So actually I started off right out of college in market research. And I think one of the best kind of decisions or the ways that I kind of look back at my career is I'm really happy that I used my market research skills when transitioning into marketing when I meet with customers. When you're in market research, you learn around how do you ask good questions, not validating questions or directive questions. And so I think that was really impactful for me because it helped me avoid bias as I'm meeting with customers, asking them questions, really truly helping me get to what's going on with their opinion and their needs. That's what I would say for my best decision. Something that I would never do again. I once jumped into a product launch, it was less than six months away, so I just jumped in and didn't ask any questions. My job was to get this product out and into the market. So I was laser focused on execution. But after the launch, I realized that when I was in the midst of the phase out conversations, the sales team did not want to phase out the older product and what is going on here. So I started to dig deeper and I learned that actually the market had shifted and that the new product was actually too niche and they needed the the other product as well, to truly stay relevant in the market and not lose market share. And so for me, that kind of, that experience and kind of what I want to avoid after that moment was always ask about what's going on in the marketplace. Don't just blindly launch. I constantly prioritize reevaluating every. We have stage gates in our industry. So, like, at every gate, is this product still relevant? Is the market still what we thought it was? And I think part of, like, what's really underlying this is as a marketing leader, it is critical to set the expectation that actually failing to question the product's ongoing need and value is actually a bigger failure than launching something that's unnecessary. So I think constantly asking that question may seem really bizarre, but that's better to kill it early if it's no longer relevant than actually launch the product and then not have it be successful.
- [33:50]
Jamie Lamontine
Great advice. I think given the success that you've had, it feels like you've learned well from those. You're doing this very well, trying every day, as we all are.
- [33:59]
Alaina Jasper
Thank you, Jamie. It's been so wonderful hearing from you. And I think one theme that I'm pulling out is just for marketers to be curious and ask questions. Find the why. And I love call your baby ugly. I'm definitely gonna remember that. And it can be so hard because I think, yeah, it's like the status quo is easy, but also you learn to like, love your product and love your company and love your brand. And sometimes it's just painful, like hearing some of that truth. It can be hard. So I like making it fun with a phrase like that. And by the way, Mark Ritson would love you your focus on product. I'm doing this marketing week mini MBA right now and we're in the product week. So all of this, it's just, all this is exactly what he thinks marketers should focus on. To close us out here, I wanted to end with kind of a fun question. This episode was focused on product. So, Jamie, what is your all time favorite product and why is it your favorite?
- [34:48]
Angela Voss
This is such a great question. I mean, all of your questions have been fantastic. But it's not a simple question. When you think of a product, I mean, it is product. I mean, it's one of the four P's. Like, it's gigantic. So I would say probably my favorite product is the airplane. It's not a brand, it's just a product. I love to travel, I love to explore new places. I love to experience new cultures and experience different worldviews. And I think airplanes have completely transformed how we connect with the world, making it so much smaller and more accessible. And if I'm a marketing in the med tech space, seeing how medicine is performed around the world has been extremely eye opening and just an amazing part of my career. So, you know, for me, an airplane, that's one thing that I hope to continue to be able to experience, you know, for a very, very long time.
- [35:39]
Jamie Lamontine
Great answer. I know I struggled a little bit. You were on the same track as I was though, because I was just like, geez, a pro. Your favorite product. I love the question. It's just a big one. I'm like, I don't know, the automobile, like the iPhone, like the computer. We're talking about medicine, like, there's so much to go after. And so I went two angles with this one. One that's more tangible in terms of something you hold in your hand, but far more simple. And then one that's a little more intangible, but just so much value. To me, the tangible one would be a lint roller. To me is like the most satisfying, simple product you could possibly have. But if, especially if you're a woman, not nothing against the men, but like, you wear black, you need it. And when you don't have one and you need it, it's just painful. And then just as a product, Amazon prime, just adding value to my life and ungodly amounts of ways. I just love it. So those are my two.
- [36:36]
Angela Voss
Those are really good. How about you, Elena? What did you think?
- [36:39]
Alaina Jasper
Personally, my favorite is like navigation in your car. I'm going to lump this into a product. I don't know how anybody got anywhere. I know they use maps. I know. I don't understand. I used to. My mom, when I was little, I'd print out MapQuest for her.
- [36:53]
Jamie Lamontine
Yes.
- [36:53]
Alaina Jasper
You know, I never was worried about my mom's worries, but now thinking back, like, how in the world did my mom ever get us anywhere? And I just love. I use the maps in my car wherever I go. I'm addicted to it. I think, like even going to the gym, like 10 minutes away. I use it because I just like to see, like, where am I? When am I going to get there?
- [37:10]
Angela Voss
I was having a conversation with my kids the other day and it was like, well, in my day, like we didn't have this. And there's just so crazy. They're like, what? Yeah. But all of the technology that's at our fingertips is just crazy compared.
- [37:23]
Jamie Lamontine
Yeah.
- [37:24]
Alaina Jasper
It makes me think about when I have kids. What's the thing about my life now that they're not gonna, they're like, how did you get by? Or even hearing about my dad in school, like before the computer was available, like just what he had to go through and anyways, before we close out, Jamie, anything you wanted to plug, we'll include your LinkedIn, your company website. But anything else before we sign off?
- [37:43]
Angela Voss
No, just thank you for having me. I love your podcast. I listen to all of them. I love all the research as we talked about and so just thank you for having me. It's been great to.
- [37:52]
Jamie Lamontine
So great to have you. Thanks for joining us, Jamie.
- [37:55]
Alaina Jasper
That's it for this episode of the Marketing Architects. We'd like to thank Taylor de Los Reyes for producing the show. You can connect with us on LinkedIn and if you like the podcast, please leave us a review. Now go forth and build great marketing Marketing Architects.